One quick note about why STF > FUN then say Azure Nebula.
Rising Tension
Seriously the pacing itself is sooo much better in STFs than any other content in the game. Which is why they are so much freaking fun. It is not rocket science.
The original 3 STFs start out at a low level of tension with the opening battle. Then the tension goes up/down/up/down as you progress fighting against the clock. Finally the climax of the boss battle happens although that point varies slightly as I'd say CSE's boss is the 3 neg'var or raptor spawns the carrier at the end is a wind down.
But yeah aside from being DPS fests the STFs have amazing design when it comes to tension. Have your writer assist you in that if needed as I'm sure she has a better understanding of the concept that your content team (no offense intended).
I don't know if this has been said or suggested but perhaps the people that bought the crystalline set upgrade should be refunded (or partially) the lobi crystals.
No I don't have the upgraded set but all things considered I'd be pretty cheesed off if I knew items from the lobi store which we thought were unique were just going to get given away by doing the rep.
It's also worth mentioning how this will affect future sales of items on the lobi store. This isn't encouraging me to purchase something with lobi crystals from the store if there's a chance the item will make it's way into a rep system. I know I won't be buying more than the 1 Jem Hadar space set upgrade because of this and considering the cost in lobi crystals (which earns cryptic money) I won't be happy if a dominion ("Gamma quadrant rep" sounds better) rep comes out and gives away mk XII sets.
Edit: Also in regards to the above STF thing. We need more missions but dev team is swamped with other stuff. So run competitions every 2 month for people to create an STF like mission in the foundry. Winner gets it made into a real mission and 10 masterkeys. The outline, most of the dialogue and way it works as well as novel ideas would spring up very quickly and may cut the development time down considerably.
Why does the T4 rep power give shield performance bonus ? which is rather useless, instead something more useful like shield emmiters ?
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I'm sorry if this was mentioned already (my eyes are closing and the bed's shouting at me), but I wanted to point out something that I found to be kind of funny in regard to the Web Mines. When they expire...they shoot out huge blinding lines in all directions. Anybody else notice that? I was dropping them on the Borg in Ker'rat and it was kind of trippy...
Nukara missions will now award Nukara Strike Force marks.
- Generally 5 for easy missions, 10 for medium, 15 for hard, with bonus marks during reputation event time.
Nukara mission rewards have been updated.
Update the Tholian Equipment Requisition packs received as rewards for completing missions on Nukara
Standard: 75% Green item, 25% Blue item
Advanced: 50% Green item, 50% Blue item
Elite: Both a Green and a Blue item
All very rare (purple) and set items have been removed from these packs, and can now be earned by progressing in the Nukara Strike Force Reputation.
These rewards are way too low to hold any interest.
Easy missions are not worth doing at all, same goes for Medium Interior missions. Both are tedious and take too long to complete.
Medium Exterior missions are doable, but offer too little reward to complete a single project at T2+, unless you run them several times (not difficult except for the timer). Doing both DAILY Hard missions will not be enough to complete a single T4 project.
Not to mention the grind for the equipment projects (500 Marks for a Mk XII space weapon or set piece, 250 for a Mk XII store unlock + the Dilithium costs). Oh, and there are no Dilithium rewards, except for the "homicidal rampage" mission (640 Dil).
The change with the reward packs... kills them except as a minor source of EC.
Green items are straight to vendor trash. I have not seen anything except EV suits in these (green) packs, and when Nukara was first released these suits were selling at less than 50% price . Blue items may or may not be worth keeping/selling, most likely they're going to vendors as well. Most likely you don't make enough EC to cover the costs of the consumables you spend in those missions.
Well, I hadn't seen this thread about a week ago when I made mine about Rep feedback, but I did the math assuming that the space missions would give out marks comparable to a Normal STF. Check it out.
Has there been anymore info gleamed about the Refracting Tet weapons? Is the proc similar to a chain attack? That's what it seems like judging by the name. Is the Tet proc or base damage increased at all from conventional tet weapons?
When I first heard about the Tholian Reputation, my hope was we were going to get the Phased Tet weapons Tholians use and were previously available in the Tholian loxboxes. They are my favorite hybrid Weapons (and second to me in-game only to Elite Fleet Weapons). I used to fly a Tac Oddy w/ full Mk XII (Acc)x2 beams. Now, however, I fly a FHEC and the exchange prices for Phased Tet cannons are waaaayyyyy too high BC of dwindled supplies to equip.
Oh well, guess I'll have to wait for Tholian lockboxes to drop again, unless these Refracting Tet's change my mind.
As far as the Tholian rep system; please for the love of god make a tholian space STF normal AND elite.
did omega rep on all my toons; did romulun on 2 the rest stopped around T3 and I have no interest in picking it back up. If Tholian rep gain options is anything like currently on Tribble I might might complete it on my main.
I assume having daily wrappers and time gating rep gain is to incentivize people to log in every day however if the content is so boring ones eyes bleed, they may just move on
EDIT: A noticeable portion of your player base absolutely detests the ground systems in this game, stop forcing them to do it for what amounts to chump change.
I'm always surprised at how my opinion is so completely opposite to everyone else's on gaining Marks.
During the winter event, I managed to rack up over three thousand Romulan marks through Winter Epohh breeding.
Even without that, the actual epohh breeding nets 400 Romulan marks every few days, for absolutely minimal work. Beyond the quick tagging run, it's literally just starting up a DOff mission every day.
Meanwhile, Omega marks mainly involved running the same elite STF every day for months. If I could stomach it, I'd sometimes do two. But the normal STFs didn't give enough marks to be worth it, I felt, and there's only one Elite STF that's reliably beatable with a PUG.
If I ever try to get rep on a second character, I'm far more willing to spend five minutes a day on Romulan marks than doing that STF fifty more times.
Now yes, I understand that's my own fault. I could have joined real teams and done the other Elite STFs. But again, that just takes more time.
I'm always surprised at how my opinion is so completely opposite to everyone else's on gaining Marks.
During the winter event, I managed to rack up over three thousand Romulan marks through Winter Epohh breeding.
Even without that, the actual epohh breeding nets 400 Romulan marks every few days, for absolutely minimal work. Beyond the quick tagging run, it's literally just starting up a DOff mission every day.
Meanwhile, Omega marks mainly involved running the same elite STF every day for months. If I could stomach it, I'd sometimes do two. But the normal STFs didn't give enough marks to be worth it, I felt, and there's only one Elite STF that's reliably beatable with a PUG.
If I ever try to get rep on a second character, I'm far more willing to spend five minutes a day on Romulan marks than doing that STF fifty more times.
Now yes, I understand that's my own fault. I could have joined real teams and done the other Elite STFs. But again, that just takes more time.
Also enjoy being *required* to purchase Dil to buy Romulan gear (which is junk you could replace with the Jem'Hadar set for free) since your Romulan mark farming will produce exactly 0 to help cover the costs of your set.
Also, if you can't consistently beat Khitomer Vortex Elite in a PUG, you're part of the problem and should probably try harder.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
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45 isn't nearly early enough to have any meaningful impact at all.
There is no way to earn enough marks from 45 to 50 to both level up rep and have anything left over for meaningful gear.
30 might do something. Even then I don't really see how you'd be able to earn enough marks to tier up and buy gear before 50 with the way the game works. But that leads to needing to redesign the entire system, essentially.
It's endgame content, and should be treated as such. Putting equipment out there during endgame content and then saying "well, see its not actually supposed to be good" is indefensible.
The reason I suggested level 45 is because that is the point at which you are able to access normal STF's and use Mark XI items. Level 40 doesn't work because you don't have access to STF's before then and the Omega Rep is pretty much all about STFs.
Level 30 is not "endgame" and there aren't really any items in the Rep stores that can be unlocked for level 30 characters.
I'm going to assume that Cryptic never intended that players should arrive at Level 50 with their Reputations anywhere near maxed out and enough Marks left over to buy Rep/STF gear. Level 45 would only give you a bit of a jump on the Reputation system, true, but I think it's better than waiting till level 50 even if it just got you partway to Tier I.
I think the biggest issue here is that by Cryptic's definition the Omega gear is supposed to be an earned reward for running STF's and elite STF's in particular. Supposedly elite STF's are the hardest content in the game and they definitely aren't meant to be soloed, so the rewards should be better than for easier content. At least that's the party line.
If the content for the Romulan Reputation is substantially easier and not restricted to teams, then it might be reasonable to conclude that the rewards would not be quite as good.
It's pretty clear that there are meant to be different levels of difficulty for "endgame" content.
The question is not, therefore, whether all endgame rewards should be equally powerful. As there are different levels of endgame then different levels of reward may well be appropriate.
The question is, are the rewards for doing Romulan Reputation appropriate for the grind involved? Cryptic seems to think "yes" but we have a lot of people here who say "no".
I'm going to admit that it doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense to grind two, three, or four times as long for gear that's inferior to what you'd get putting less time into doing elite STF's. Might as well do the STF's and forget about the other gear... that's the argument at hand and I think it's a valid point.
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Also enjoy being *required* to purchase Dil to buy Romulan gear (which is junk you could replace with the Jem'Hadar set for free) since your Romulan mark farming will produce exactly 0 to help cover the costs of your set.
Also, if you can't consistently beat Khitomer Vortex Elite in a PUG, you're part of the problem and should probably try harder.
And why would I purchase dilithium? I'm not rolling in it, but I've made plenty. Easily enough to buy all the Rep gear I want. And why would I be required to purchase it anyway if the Romulan gear is junk? That makes no sense. I'll spend it on the Omega stuff, thanks. Anyway, I was talking about Marks, specifically - Romulan ones are easier to get, for me, putting aside dilithium concerns.
And like I said, I haven't tried any other Elite STFs. Sure, I get bored doing the Conduit over and over, but it's a sure thing. That's my own problem, though.
Need some space methods of gaining Nukara marks. Grinding marks ON Nukara for fleet marks was bad enough. Now for Nukara marks? No thanks. Another method, please.
Need some space methods of gaining Nukara marks. Grinding marks ON Nukara for fleet marks was bad enough. Now for Nukara marks? No thanks. Another method, please.
Agreed the equivalent would be like only being able to get omega marks from Drefarra; how do you think that would go over? So far it's starting to look more and more like I'm just gonna skip the Tholian rep system completely once it hits Holo on all my toons even my main. lol the one thing this game needed was another currency...sigh
Has there been anymore info gleamed about the Refracting Tet weapons? Is the proc similar to a chain attack? That's what it seems like judging by the name. Is the Tet proc or base damage increased at all from conventional tet weapons?
When I first heard about the Tholian Reputation, my hope was we were going to get the Phased Tet weapons Tholians use and were previously available in the Tholian loxboxes. They are my favorite hybrid Weapons (and second to me in-game only to Elite Fleet Weapons). I used to fly a Tac Oddy w/ full Mk XII (Acc)x2 beams. Now, however, I fly a FHEC and the exchange prices for Phased Tet cannons are waaaayyyyy too high BC of dwindled supplies to equip.
Oh well, guess I'll have to wait for Tholian lockboxes to drop again, unless these Refracting Tet's change my mind.
Couldnt agree more, though I would have been satisfied with having the disruptor proc instead of phaser. The refracting proc looks seriously disappointing, though it would be a lot better if it had higher range and/or proc chance.
Also: they seriously need to add a space way of doing this. Cant stand Nukara ground.
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One quick note about why STF > FUN then say Azure Nebula.
Rising Tension
Seriously the pacing itself is sooo much better in STFs than any other content in the game. Which is why they are so much freaking fun. It is not rocket science.
The original 3 STFs start out at a low level of tension with the opening battle. Then the tension goes up/down/up/down as you progress fighting against the clock. Finally the climax of the boss battle happens although that point varies slightly as I'd say CSE's boss is the 3 neg'var or raptor spawns the carrier at the end is a wind down.
But yeah aside from being DPS fests the STFs have amazing design when it comes to tension. Have your writer assist you in that if needed as I'm sure she has a better understanding of the concept that your content team (no offense intended).
we must be playing different games. I think some of the ground ones are OK and fun to do if you have good groups.
But the space ones bore me to tears. They are mostly blowing up stationary objects with extremely high hit points. I dont actually see any pacing.
Add Piercing Tetryon and/or Polarized Tetryon to the Nukara Reputation system.
Both should obviously come in the purple flavor with 2 modifiers of player's choosing.
Add Piercing Tetryon and/or Polarized Tetryon to the Nukara Reputation system.
Both should obviously come in the purple flavor with 2 modifiers of player's choosing.
Not a bad idea, but we desperately need an stf like mission for more nukara marks. Or an epoh tagging one.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Yeah, that proc on Nukara weapons could use just a bit more work. I am surprised the weapons from a rep are weaker than regular reward gear. The reputation systems are end game content that have quite the grind associated, so they really should get the best gear.
Also something I keep harping on: Give one of the sets a bonus on tholian ships. Right now the Orb Weaver and the Recluse are the only lockbox/lobi ships that do not have an associated set that gives an extra 3-set bonus.
Another note: Before we went open beta, I assumed the visuals for the Tholian set (shared with Dominion set) were just placeholders, but since they made it to open beta, I am a bit concerned.
Please give the Nukara equipment set it's own visuals (or none at all)
The reputation power Refracting Tetryon Cascade has a range of 3 km. Perhaps, it is better to gray it out until there is an enemy within in range. I kept thinking it was broken until I saw the range limitation.
There is a Register Lobi set project which gets you some nakura marks and DILITHIUM so not a complete waste. Those who have made the purchase are being given something extra to those who have not.
The only thing i ever got from the lobi-store 2x mk xii sets (upgraded the set) cost me 300 lobi's and now you get them for free..
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Cryptic need to boost the tholiana mark rewards!!! The pwe missions give too little marks former interior/exterior hard give only 35 marks, Azure nebula rescue about 16 marks that's the one I usually play because they are relative fast, and some medium easy missions on Nukara. Anyway with poor public players it's even worse to get them I don't even remember the last time I had completed the Hard Scheduled Self Destruct with 4 public queue players it's annoying to do the rep system this way, and this is the hardest reputation so far. I will be lucky to get my alts to tire 4
Cryptic need to boost the tholiana mark rewards!!! The pwe missions give too little marks former interior/exterior hard give only 35 marks, Azure nebula rescue about 16 marks that's the one I usually play because they are relative fast, and some medium easy missions on Nukara. Anyway with poor public players it's even worse to get them I don't even remember the last time I had completed the Hard Scheduled Self Destruct with 4 public queue players it's annoying to do the rep system this way, and this is the hardest reputation so far. I will be lucky to get my alts to tire 4
Whoa. Dug this from the grave didn't yea, Crytalline gives around 60 on Mark Event, 80 for Elite. I think it's like 40 & 60 otherwise. 50 on the Tholian Leader fight, never got how the %+ work on these Mark event bonuses. Other then that, the Tholian leader fight is pretty fast, still hate they broke up the planet, a fresh Tholian ground map/battle made for the Que system would have been a tons better.
Whoa. Dug this from the grave didn't yea, Crytalline gives around 60 on Mark Event, 80 for Elite. I think it's like 40 & 60 otherwise. 50 on the Tholian Leader fight, never got how the %+ work on these Mark event bonuses. Other then that, the Tholian leader fight is pretty fast, still hate they broke up the planet, a fresh Tholian ground map/battle made for the Que system would have been a tons better.
-V
Mark event isn't 24h on, and Crystalline event is terrible lately unless you have a awesome team + it takes lot of time, but I'm sure that you can perform miracles :P.
"Tholian Leader fight" are easy ??? yes in a ideal game they would be, but the pugs usually dont even know how to activate their suit most of the time so I dont get you idealizing !!!
Comments
Rising Tension
Seriously the pacing itself is sooo much better in STFs than any other content in the game. Which is why they are so much freaking fun. It is not rocket science.
The original 3 STFs start out at a low level of tension with the opening battle. Then the tension goes up/down/up/down as you progress fighting against the clock. Finally the climax of the boss battle happens although that point varies slightly as I'd say CSE's boss is the 3 neg'var or raptor spawns the carrier at the end is a wind down.
But yeah aside from being DPS fests the STFs have amazing design when it comes to tension. Have your writer assist you in that if needed as I'm sure she has a better understanding of the concept that your content team (no offense intended).
No I don't have the upgraded set but all things considered I'd be pretty cheesed off if I knew items from the lobi store which we thought were unique were just going to get given away by doing the rep.
It's also worth mentioning how this will affect future sales of items on the lobi store. This isn't encouraging me to purchase something with lobi crystals from the store if there's a chance the item will make it's way into a rep system. I know I won't be buying more than the 1 Jem Hadar space set upgrade because of this and considering the cost in lobi crystals (which earns cryptic money) I won't be happy if a dominion ("Gamma quadrant rep" sounds better) rep comes out and gives away mk XII sets.
Edit: Also in regards to the above STF thing. We need more missions but dev team is swamped with other stuff. So run competitions every 2 month for people to create an STF like mission in the foundry. Winner gets it made into a real mission and 10 masterkeys. The outline, most of the dialogue and way it works as well as novel ideas would spring up very quickly and may cut the development time down considerably.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Why resilient shields again ?
Why does the T4 rep power give shield performance bonus ? which is rather useless, instead something more useful like shield emmiters ?
This rep needs plenty space combat.
Ground combat is not fun, will never be fun and you cannot honestly tell me its difficult to whip up some missions ala romulan daily....
These rewards are way too low to hold any interest.
Easy missions are not worth doing at all, same goes for Medium Interior missions. Both are tedious and take too long to complete.
Medium Exterior missions are doable, but offer too little reward to complete a single project at T2+, unless you run them several times (not difficult except for the timer). Doing both DAILY Hard missions will not be enough to complete a single T4 project.
Not to mention the grind for the equipment projects (500 Marks for a Mk XII space weapon or set piece, 250 for a Mk XII store unlock + the Dilithium costs). Oh, and there are no Dilithium rewards, except for the "homicidal rampage" mission (640 Dil).
The change with the reward packs... kills them except as a minor source of EC.
Green items are straight to vendor trash. I have not seen anything except EV suits in these (green) packs, and when Nukara was first released these suits were selling at less than 50% price . Blue items may or may not be worth keeping/selling, most likely they're going to vendors as well. Most likely you don't make enough EC to cover the costs of the consumables you spend in those missions.
When I first heard about the Tholian Reputation, my hope was we were going to get the Phased Tet weapons Tholians use and were previously available in the Tholian loxboxes. They are my favorite hybrid Weapons (and second to me in-game only to Elite Fleet Weapons). I used to fly a Tac Oddy w/ full Mk XII (Acc)x2 beams. Now, however, I fly a FHEC and the exchange prices for Phased Tet cannons are waaaayyyyy too high BC of dwindled supplies to equip.
Oh well, guess I'll have to wait for Tholian lockboxes to drop again, unless these Refracting Tet's change my mind.
did omega rep on all my toons; did romulun on 2 the rest stopped around T3 and I have no interest in picking it back up. If Tholian rep gain options is anything like currently on Tribble I might might complete it on my main.
I assume having daily wrappers and time gating rep gain is to incentivize people to log in every day however if the content is so boring ones eyes bleed, they may just move on
EDIT: A noticeable portion of your player base absolutely detests the ground systems in this game, stop forcing them to do it for what amounts to chump change.
During the winter event, I managed to rack up over three thousand Romulan marks through Winter Epohh breeding.
Even without that, the actual epohh breeding nets 400 Romulan marks every few days, for absolutely minimal work. Beyond the quick tagging run, it's literally just starting up a DOff mission every day.
Meanwhile, Omega marks mainly involved running the same elite STF every day for months. If I could stomach it, I'd sometimes do two. But the normal STFs didn't give enough marks to be worth it, I felt, and there's only one Elite STF that's reliably beatable with a PUG.
If I ever try to get rep on a second character, I'm far more willing to spend five minutes a day on Romulan marks than doing that STF fifty more times.
Now yes, I understand that's my own fault. I could have joined real teams and done the other Elite STFs. But again, that just takes more time.
Gl finding a tholian epoh
Also, if you can't consistently beat Khitomer Vortex Elite in a PUG, you're part of the problem and should probably try harder.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
The reason I suggested level 45 is because that is the point at which you are able to access normal STF's and use Mark XI items. Level 40 doesn't work because you don't have access to STF's before then and the Omega Rep is pretty much all about STFs.
Level 30 is not "endgame" and there aren't really any items in the Rep stores that can be unlocked for level 30 characters.
I'm going to assume that Cryptic never intended that players should arrive at Level 50 with their Reputations anywhere near maxed out and enough Marks left over to buy Rep/STF gear. Level 45 would only give you a bit of a jump on the Reputation system, true, but I think it's better than waiting till level 50 even if it just got you partway to Tier I.
I think the biggest issue here is that by Cryptic's definition the Omega gear is supposed to be an earned reward for running STF's and elite STF's in particular. Supposedly elite STF's are the hardest content in the game and they definitely aren't meant to be soloed, so the rewards should be better than for easier content. At least that's the party line.
If the content for the Romulan Reputation is substantially easier and not restricted to teams, then it might be reasonable to conclude that the rewards would not be quite as good.
It's pretty clear that there are meant to be different levels of difficulty for "endgame" content.
The question is not, therefore, whether all endgame rewards should be equally powerful. As there are different levels of endgame then different levels of reward may well be appropriate.
The question is, are the rewards for doing Romulan Reputation appropriate for the grind involved? Cryptic seems to think "yes" but we have a lot of people here who say "no".
I'm going to admit that it doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense to grind two, three, or four times as long for gear that's inferior to what you'd get putting less time into doing elite STF's. Might as well do the STF's and forget about the other gear... that's the argument at hand and I think it's a valid point.
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And why would I purchase dilithium? I'm not rolling in it, but I've made plenty. Easily enough to buy all the Rep gear I want. And why would I be required to purchase it anyway if the Romulan gear is junk? That makes no sense. I'll spend it on the Omega stuff, thanks. Anyway, I was talking about Marks, specifically - Romulan ones are easier to get, for me, putting aside dilithium concerns.
And like I said, I haven't tried any other Elite STFs. Sure, I get bored doing the Conduit over and over, but it's a sure thing. That's my own problem, though.
And a Tholian epohh would be adorable! :P
Agreed the equivalent would be like only being able to get omega marks from Drefarra; how do you think that would go over? So far it's starting to look more and more like I'm just gonna skip the Tholian rep system completely once it hits Holo on all my toons even my main. lol the one thing this game needed was another currency...sigh
Couldnt agree more, though I would have been satisfied with having the disruptor proc instead of phaser. The refracting proc looks seriously disappointing, though it would be a lot better if it had higher range and/or proc chance.
Also: they seriously need to add a space way of doing this. Cant stand Nukara ground.
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we must be playing different games. I think some of the ground ones are OK and fun to do if you have good groups.
But the space ones bore me to tears. They are mostly blowing up stationary objects with extremely high hit points. I dont actually see any pacing.
Add Piercing Tetryon and/or Polarized Tetryon to the Nukara Reputation system.
Both should obviously come in the purple flavor with 2 modifiers of player's choosing.
Not a bad idea, but we desperately need an stf like mission for more nukara marks. Or an epoh tagging one.
Apparently we'll be getting n elite version of crystalline entity which awards 40 nukara marks. Hopefully that'll be boosted by reputation bonus hour.
I like the CE event. Have to use the brain to beat that rather than just point and shoot, just hope they boost the rewards a little.
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Also something I keep harping on: Give one of the sets a bonus on tholian ships. Right now the Orb Weaver and the Recluse are the only lockbox/lobi ships that do not have an associated set that gives an extra 3-set bonus.
Please give the Nukara equipment set it's own visuals (or none at all)
You can get the Tholian reputation gear and powers at the test vendor on DS9.
The only thing i ever got from the lobi-store 2x mk xii sets (upgraded the set) cost me 300 lobi's and now you get them for free..
Bone1970 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
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Warning: Not a native English-speaker, sorry if my English sucks.
Whoa. Dug this from the grave didn't yea, Crytalline gives around 60 on Mark Event, 80 for Elite. I think it's like 40 & 60 otherwise. 50 on the Tholian Leader fight, never got how the %+ work on these Mark event bonuses. Other then that, the Tholian leader fight is pretty fast, still hate they broke up the planet, a fresh Tholian ground map/battle made for the Que system would have been a tons better.
-V
Mark event isn't 24h on, and Crystalline event is terrible lately unless you have a awesome team + it takes lot of time, but I'm sure that you can perform miracles :P.
"Tholian Leader fight" are easy ??? yes in a ideal game they would be, but the pugs usually dont even know how to activate their suit most of the time so I dont get you idealizing !!!