Please keep in mind that this is a test and that we may end up changing it back to 40 base or making other changes to compensate for the presence of Romulan Battle Cloaking and the Singularity mechanic on Romulan ships. For example, there is a possibility we may end up removing console slots or BOFF seats instead of or in addition to the power level differences.
Maybe I'm just reading this wrong, but this sounds like a veiled threat: accept the system or we're going to take stuff away that really matters to you. The problem is, it isn't the presence of the system that's the concern, but that the actual abilities aren't better than anything our ships, captain and BOFF abilities, can already do.
If the SCM powers offered something more unique rather than just more plasma damage, healing and sci confuse abilities, it might go a long way to making them feel that they're worth the trade off. Currently it is just considerably more efficient not to concentrate on charging up a mechanic that has, at best, situational use.
We are going to be testing a change to the power levels for Warbirds soon.
Rather than having a 40 base to all power levels, we are going to be testing how they perform with 45 to all power levels.
Please keep in mind that this is a test and that we may end up changing it back to 40 base or making other changes to compensate for the presence of Romulan Battle Cloaking and the Singularity mechanic on Romulan ships. For example, there is a possibility we may end up removing console slots or BOFF seats instead of or in addition to the power level differences.
We are still evaluating making changes to the Singularity mechanics and Romulan Battle Cloak as well.
Thank you for your continued testing and feedback
I like the singularity abilities, my current concern is the opportunity cost and it not feeling worth it. We're currently dealing with a 20% reduction in base power settings and to make it worse at least one of those abilities (I can't yet see the details for the last two) require a spend in the skill tree to buff it's effectiveness, and it's in a part of the skill tree that a tactically focused Warbird may not usually spend (Particle Generators).
If the reduced power is something that needs to stay then how about focusing it instead of making it a blanket reduction? Maybe a -10 to Shields and Aux (to reduce defence and healing) but keep Weapons and Engines at the 50 base to further emphasize the 'decloak, lay waste and cloak for the next attack' approach the Romulans were known for.
I will say it again. Introduce one singularity core, that has no abilities and restores the power. That way, everyone interested in the mechanic will use it, but others won't feel like they are pushed to something they deem not worth it.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
i really have a problem with the current layout of the
T'Varo Warbird Retrofit - the only Rom ship with enhanced BC.
current BOFF layout (still bugged on tribble)
tac: ++++
+
++
eng: +++ (says sci in the description, but the consoles count and icon speak for themselves)
universal: ++
I will say it again. Introduce one singularity core, that has no abilities and restores the power. That way, everyone interested in the mechanic will use it, but others won't feel like they are pushed to something they deem not worth it.
i really have a problem with the current layout of the
T'Varo Warbird Retrofit - the only Rom ship with enhanced BC.
Hands off my ship of choice. As it stands, it is a Defiant with EBC and I want it just as it is - although replacing the tac ensign with a sci would be even better.
_________________________________________________ [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth] [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk] [D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
So far I have found the singularity effects to be useful and interesting. However when you mouse over a singularity core in your inventory with the ship status screen open, it does not show a comparison for the cores. But the abilities so far seem useful and have helped in combat.
I love the implosion effect of the singularity cores on the romulan ships when they explode. Much better than those of the federation and kdf ships. However, in star trek novels and such, the effect of a warp core breach would cause a subspace field emanation which would be similar to the implosion effect of the singularity core. Could such an effect be included for standard warp cores? That would make them interesting too. Also, any warp or singularity core provides power for the ship. I suggest that taking a core off a ship in space should make the power levels drop in some way. Say about 75% loss of power on all systems?
Also a warp core ejection system would be an idea. After all in the Trek series and films they could do this. Again, doing so could affect power levels. But it could be used as a "last chance" effect similar to the abandon ship ability (just an idea really).
All in all though, the new singularity cores are interesting. When I first saw them I didn't know whether I would like or dislike them, but they have grown on me as I tested them.
You can do this already; it's called "fly your ally's ships because you don't actually want to play a warbird."
Well first off that's all great until T5. Want to tell them what to do in T5 when they're not given that choice? Didn't think so.
The next problem is, if the warbird is nerfed to the point that its not as effective as equivalent Fed or KDF ships in STFs or PvP simply because of a very couple of situational powers, then it's not exactly balanced is it? What most of them are trying to do is come up with a way to fly a warbird, especially at T5, and not have them outclassed by Federation of KDF ships.
Taking away a BOff slot or a console slot, generally concidered some of the most helpful things in combat, most of which can be used every 30 seconds or so to a minute... or being so weak in shields and turning radius that they can't escape a Oddy, let alone a fully tricked out escort, because they're energy is so low, doesn't exactly sound balanced.
Sure, claiming get rid of my singularity core is a bit drastic, but hell that's only because the devs are THREATING us with taking away proven useful slots to force us into using their new shiny toys that are very, very situational.
If the singularity powers cost you a console slot but no power, I could probably live with it, but it wouldn't be as 'flavorful'. And power loss can be mitigated to some extent, but not a lost console. Finally, losing a console at T5 is very different than at, say, T2. (Would you lose a console at T1, when you only have 3?)
_________________________________________________ [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth] [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk] [D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
As much as I hate saying this, IF the devs feel that a -5 energy isn't enough, my other suggestion is.. take away a device slot.
Why a device slot? Because it'll limit the number and types of batteries we can carry to counter act the -5 energy loss, meaning we'll have to decide which system I want fully charged.
As one of the major ways to counter act lower energy, limiting the numbers would effectively gimp us minorly, without being over inconvienant.
If engineering consoles that give subsystem power werent that TRIBBLE (see if you would not nerf them in the first place) people could of set the missing power through engineering console. And there would be no need to take the slot away from them.
Truth is, a -20 across board is like -4 engineering consoles (purple mk XII). That's pretty harsh. What about change the the consoles to +10 or even +15 ? Or better, change them to lovely percentages. Add +10% actual power in one subsystem. So it is +5 at 50 but +10 at 100.
Right now, I don't know anyone who uses +subsystem power consoles.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
We are going to be testing a change to the power levels for Warbirds soon.
Rather than having a 40 base to all power levels, we are going to be testing how they perform with 45 to all power levels.
Please keep in mind that this is a test and that we may end up changing it back to 40 base or making other changes to compensate for the presence of Romulan Battle Cloaking and the Singularity mechanic on Romulan ships.
With typical ships you get a variety of subsystem boosts relevant to that type of ship. Exploration Cruiser and Assault Cruiser both get +5 to all substems, favoring a balanced ship; escorts generally get +15 to weapons, science schips +15 to aux.
Rather than a flat tax to all subsystems, could the various Warbirds have the inverse of this to represent the Captain making a tactical decision as to which subsystems s/he doesn't mind taxing to siphon off to feed the hungry singularity abilities? Whereas typical ships get their subsystem boosted, the Warbird counterpart's favoured subsystem would instead just not see any drain - its other subsystems would take one for the team.
For example a typical D'Deridex might have -5 to all subsystems (the Captain wants to tax the subsystems equally for a balanced ship, much like the exploration cruiser it was so often pitted against, gets +5 to all), and at balanced power levels would be 45/45/45/45.
Where a typical escort gets +15 to weapons, the T'Varo might have -10 to aux, and -5 shields and engines, so that at balanced power levels it's at 50/45/45/40 and its weapons are as potent as possible by default. A sci focused ship would be 40/45/45/50 by default, and so on. Future variants could then have different power level tax configurations for different playstyles (like you get with the assault cruiser refit compared to the plain old assault cruiser, a more aggressive susbstem power setup, etc).
For example, there is a possibility we may end up removing console slots or BOFF seats instead of or in addition to the power level differences.
We are still evaluating making changes to the Singularity mechanics and Romulan Battle Cloak as well.
Thank you for your continued testing and feedback.
I don't think removing console slots would be a good idea, not only because of how ridiculously hard it would become to keep up with other top tier ships, but because the singularity abilities aren't so thoroughly awesome that they're worth a few console slots.
Maybe a universal console that comes default with Warbids that does something useful to singularity abilities, enough so that it effectively takes up a console slot if you want your singularity abilities to be on par, and in removing it, you'd get that console slot to use for whatever you like, but you then you gimp your singularity abilities? Recharge time, plain old damage boost?
Okay, just an incredibly crazy idea that maybe has come up before:
Would it be possible to allow warbirds to choose betweensingularity and warp cores? From the way it looks right now the abilities, power levels and different explosions are tied to the ship. I think it would be great if you could choose. For example I would keep the singularity core in a Kestrel runabout for the shield heal, but on my T'varo I would prefer the overall higher power levels for dps and to keep the ship together.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
So lets just do that with all the romulan ships. 8% lower hull and 8% lower turn rate than their compatriots in exchange for their occasional core abilities and battle cloaks. Tada. No boff penatlies needed, no power penalties needed.
It's been done, it's called a Bird of Prey. You don't like the warbird? Go Klingon and fly their BoPs. Problem solved.
That's not the console I meant :P I meant those normal +single subsystem consoles, those which cryptic nerfed in the past and which now have no value. Just check the prices of purple mk XII and you will see how players value those.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
That's not the console I meant :P I meant those normal +single subsystem consoles, those which cryptic nerfed in the past and which now have no value. Just check the prices of purple mk XII and you will see how players value those.
They should have given warp/singularity cores themselves slots (up to three slots at tier 5), which could only take the currently useless power setting consoles, that way you get to set up yourself how and where you want extra bonus power in your subsystems.
Just finished playing around about with the first few warbirds. The ships and singularity mechanic are fun to play with, but one issue I have with them is that they don't feel quite "Romulan"
For me, Romulans emphasize brute force almost as much, or more so than Klingons, but it was more of a calculated cloak and dagger type thing. They show up, strike with overwhelming force, and leave. The battle cloak and its turn buff play amazingly well into that, allowing me to gain an advantageous first strike position. But the reduced power and singularity mechanic seem to favor drawn out battles, which plays just fine but doesn't sit right with my nit picky self.
As a suggestion, why not reverse the way the singularity mechanic works? Reduce the rate at which it charges up, but make it charge faster while cloaked and also charge out of combat. Also when its at Lv 5 have it adds power to all systems. Also make the singularity abilities themselves more potent. In return if you must, reduce either hull strength or turn rate (someone's gonna kill me for that one).
The net effect would be to make the warbirds truly "high risk high reward". They would enter a battle with cloak, full power, and a potent singularity ability. The singularity abilities should be ones that can tip the balance, but in return after you fire one off you ship becomes less effective compared to equivalent KDF or FED ships.
A romulan captain entering battle can choose to alpha strike his enemy with everything and hope that the damage he does makes up for the reduced power of his ship after, but if it fails he has to either keep fighting with a less effective ship or attempt to cloak and speed up the recharge on his singularity to regain the upper hand.
Just my two cents.
TLDR: Singularity mechanic and possible power level solution?
Just finished playing around about with the first few warbirds. The ships and singularity mechanic are fun to play with, but one issue I have with them is that they don't feel quite "Romulan"
For me, Romulans emphasize brute force almost as much, or more so than Klingons, but it was more of a calculated cloak and dagger type thing. They show up, strike with overwhelming force, and leave. The battle cloak and its turn buff play amazingly well into that, allowing me to gain an advantageous first strike position. But the reduced power and singularity mechanic seem to favor drawn out battles, which plays just fine but doesn't sit right with my nit picky self.
As a suggestion, why not reverse the way the singularity mechanic works? Reduce the rate at which it charges up, but make it charge faster while cloaked and also charge out of combat. Also when its at Lv 5 have it adds power to all systems. Also make the singularity abilities themselves more potent. In return if you must, reduce either hull strength or turn rate (someone's gonna kill me for that one).
The net effect would be to make the warbirds truly "high risk high reward". They would enter a battle with cloak, full power, and a potent singularity ability. The singularity abilities should be ones that can tip the balance, but in return after you fire one off you ship becomes less effective compared to equivalent KDF or FED ships.
A romulan captain entering battle can choose to alpha strike his enemy with everything and hope that the damage he does makes up for the reduced power of his ship after, but if it fails he has to either keep fighting with a less effective ship or attempt to cloak and speed up the recharge on his singularity to regain the upper hand.
Just my two cents.
TLDR: Singularity mechanic and possible power level solution?
I like this suggestion, though I'd probably only allow the core to charge while cloaked. But either way will give the desired effect.
Not sure if this has actually been said but are they're going to be T5 D'Deridex retro variants because they're aern't many endgame choices. i suggested earlier in this post of changing the Ensign Sci slot into an Ensign universal to help counter the loss of T5 ally ships and their BOFF Confuigurations but D'deridfex variants would be a good idea as well.
D'deridex Sci. Same BOFF layout as current different Console config.
1 CMDR ENG, 1 LT CMDR ENG, 1 LT TAC, 1 LT SCI, 1 ENS SCI.
4 ENG, 3 SCI, 2 TAC.
Well first off that's all great until T5. Want to tell them what to do in T5 when they're not given that choice? Didn't think so.
The next problem is, if the warbird is nerfed to the point that its not as effective as equivalent Fed or KDF ships in STFs or PvP simply because of a very couple of situational powers, then it's not exactly balanced is it? What most of them are trying to do is come up with a way to fly a warbird, especially at T5, and not have them outclassed by Federation of KDF ships.
Taking away a BOff slot or a console slot, generally concidered some of the most helpful things in combat, most of which can be used every 30 seconds or so to a minute... or being so weak in shields and turning radius that they can't escape a Oddy, let alone a fully tricked out escort, because they're energy is so low, doesn't exactly sound balanced.
Sure, claiming get rid of my singularity core is a bit drastic, but hell that's only because the devs are THREATING us with taking away proven useful slots to force us into using their new shiny toys that are very, very situational.
T5? Lockboxes. You're covered.
Nerfed to the point of ineffectiveness? We haven't even gotten a chance to try everything it can do and people are screaming to have it turned into a carbon copy of every other damn ship out there. If they don't want to use it, then DON'T. But DON'T try to kill it off before we even get a chance to see it shine. I agree, removing BOff or console slots would be a terrible idea, but all the whinging about the power levels, they don't even understand how to properly use what they're getting in exchange.
Too weak in shields...well, their shield capacity isn't weakened, but regen will suffer under sustained fire. It's a pity they can't just drop out of combat whenever they want to reco...oh, they can? Or they can drop clones, or have a shield regen on hand that is equally useful regardless of power level? Oh, hey....
As for "can't outrun the Odyssey", can the Odyssey triple its base turn rate whenever it damn well feels like it? Again, the Battle Cloak buffs speed, maneuverability, defense, damage, and we have the as yet unknown Singularity Jump waiting for us too, but all people keep squawking about is the power levels. It's like they're not even TRYING to think how they can adapt to take advantage of all that they're getting, but they KNOW they won't be able to play the same way they always have, and if they can't do it, nobody should!
And this sort of thing happens in EVERY MMO, over and over. "Well, we like that you introduced this new character class that uses dice for weapons for really randomized combat and relies on evades, all we want you to do is to give him heavy armor and a sword that does constant DPS so we can keep playing like we always have."
If you don't like adapting to a different playstyle, don't play the Warbird. You don't have to; there's no one forcing you. Just leave it for me, and I'll show you how well it can work.
Just finished playing around about with the first few warbirds. The ships and singularity mechanic are fun to play with, but one issue I have with them is that they don't feel quite "Romulan"
For me, Romulans emphasize brute force almost as much, or more so than Klingons, but it was more of a calculated cloak and dagger type thing. They show up, strike with overwhelming force, and leave. The battle cloak and its turn buff play amazingly well into that, allowing me to gain an advantageous first strike position. But the reduced power and singularity mechanic seem to favor drawn out battles, which plays just fine but doesn't sit right with my nit picky self.
As a suggestion, why not reverse the way the singularity mechanic works? Reduce the rate at which it charges up, but make it charge faster while cloaked and also charge out of combat. Also when its at Lv 5 have it adds power to all systems. Also make the singularity abilities themselves more potent. In return if you must, reduce either hull strength or turn rate (someone's gonna kill me for that one).
The net effect would be to make the warbirds truly "high risk high reward". They would enter a battle with cloak, full power, and a potent singularity ability. The singularity abilities should be ones that can tip the balance, but in return after you fire one off you ship becomes less effective compared to equivalent KDF or FED ships.
A romulan captain entering battle can choose to alpha strike his enemy with everything and hope that the damage he does makes up for the reduced power of his ship after, but if it fails he has to either keep fighting with a less effective ship or attempt to cloak and speed up the recharge on his singularity to regain the upper hand.
Just my two cents.
TLDR: Singularity mechanic and possible power level solution?
Interesting notion, but while it would make Warbirds much more powerful in the kinds of one-off encounters you see in episodes, it would significantly weaken them for the longer sustained battles like you see in STFs. It also means that you spend a lot of time in battle not actually in battle, and that's rather boring. Because of that, given the choice between the current singularity mechanics and yours, I'd have to choose the current ones.
Not sure if this has actually been said but are they're going to be T5 D'Deridex retro variants because they're aern't many endgame choices. i suggested earlier in this post of changing the Ensign Sci slot into an Ensign universal to help counter the loss of T5 ally ships and their BOFF Confuigurations but D'deridfex variants would be a good idea as well.
D'deridex Sci. Same BOFF layout as current different Console config.
1 CMDR ENG, 1 LT CMDR ENG, 1 LT TAC, 1 LT SCI, 1 ENS SCI.
4 ENG, 3 SCI, 2 TAC.
Interesting notion, but while it would make Warbirds much more powerful in the kinds of one-off encounters you see in episodes, it would significantly weaken them for the longer sustained battles like you see in STFs. It also means that you spend a lot of time in battle not actually in battle, and that's rather boring. Because of that, given the choice between the current singularity mechanics and yours, I'd have to choose the current ones.
Was waiting for someone to bring this up. In an STF where sustained damage is sometimes more important, a warbird can just fight like any other ship. Keep the singularity at lv 5 to bring the power levels on par with other ships so that they can do the sustained damage necessary.
STF do have those "aww TRIBBLE.." moments like when someone misses the massive rush of probes to the gate in KA or a tac cube singles you out for that special high yield torpedo. In that case the warbird can cut loose and fire off its special ability (with current singularity power strength this obviously won't work. They're simply too weak)
I'm not commenting either way on the "game begins at 50" philosophy.
However, the realities of the skill tree placement, ship equipment tiers, and captain and boff ability progression mean that the impact of -10 v. -5 will play out very differently at 50 v. 20.
Please give us a period of time after the tribble cap has hit 50 to revert back to -10. Let us live with it, kick the tires, and see what kind of numbers are actually spit out.
A tribble, btw, with radically altered EPTx, new rep, new captain abilities... -10 v. -5 may also feel different at cap S7 v. LoR.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Do you do anything berating others if they criticize anything about the warbirds?
I berate the people whose "solution" is to turn the Warbird into a standard Fed or Klingon ship with a new shell. For other commentary, I provide appropriate feedback. I haven't seen any actually better systems proposed yet (some decent-sounding ideas, but have too big of drawbacks when further examined), but I'm keeping my eye out.
I've also been looking at ways to make the most out of the Warbird's advantages, but every time I point something out, I get responses like "yeah, but that can't POSSIBLY beat my escort's highly-tuned DPS monstrosity, therefore it should be ripped out and let me use my techniques so I can implement my high-DPS escort tactics in the Warbird." So please excuse me when I point out that they should just play their damn escort instead.
Thank you for the invitation to test play and for all the work put into this expansion. I hope this brings more people into STO.
I played the missions on normal, although normally I play on elite on holodeck.
I enjoyed the very powerful and nimble T'Varo, very TOS. I?m not a fan of the Dhelan?s look but the extra aft and fore slots were nice. If I had a T?Varo skin that would have been great. A glitch prevented me from claiming and playing a Mogai during my first run through the missions.
I created a Sci and the assigned ensign slots in the ships were limiting and frustrating. The Tal Shiar deflector glitch, which removed access to HE 1, dampened my enthusiasm also. That said, I?d love to see a Tal Shiar set.
The Singularity powers are interesting as is the exotic damage modifiers but nothing I regularly incorporated into my playstyle. I like the concept of singularity powers, but their timing made it hard to incorporate them into consistent tactics.
From time to time I actively tried to use them tactically but the erratic build up of the power to the top tier led to difficult choices to either use the power at the moment of top off and do a bit of damage (there was rarely a chance to plan out a heal) or chance waiting to use the power and wasting additional incoming enemy energy. Given the choice of a limited damage burst or heal I often went with the limited damage burst; and this while trying to drop a shield facing so that the burst did a bit of damage.
Plasma Shockwave/Pulse was very powerful at lower levels but by levels 21 and 22 was doing negligible damage. I dropped the power from my Holodeck Sci because I could put slot a more useful power. Overall the heal was more useful but also limited and sporadic in use. HE1 was better for heals on my ship, but the deflector glitch cost me my ship a few times when I could not use either heals.
If I play through the missions again I?ll have to try to use the burst defensively to destroy incoming torpedoes.
Are the inclusion of the Pulse and Heal worth the -10 to my subsystems? No. The powers are too sporadic. I have a defined loss, -10 to subsystems, but not a defined gain.
Comments
Maybe I'm just reading this wrong, but this sounds like a veiled threat: accept the system or we're going to take stuff away that really matters to you. The problem is, it isn't the presence of the system that's the concern, but that the actual abilities aren't better than anything our ships, captain and BOFF abilities, can already do.
If the SCM powers offered something more unique rather than just more plasma damage, healing and sci confuse abilities, it might go a long way to making them feel that they're worth the trade off. Currently it is just considerably more efficient not to concentrate on charging up a mechanic that has, at best, situational use.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
Yeah, I can agree with that.
I like the singularity abilities, my current concern is the opportunity cost and it not feeling worth it. We're currently dealing with a 20% reduction in base power settings and to make it worse at least one of those abilities (I can't yet see the details for the last two) require a spend in the skill tree to buff it's effectiveness, and it's in a part of the skill tree that a tactically focused Warbird may not usually spend (Particle Generators).
If the reduced power is something that needs to stay then how about focusing it instead of making it a blanket reduction? Maybe a -10 to Shields and Aux (to reduce defence and healing) but keep Weapons and Engines at the 50 base to further emphasize the 'decloak, lay waste and cloak for the next attack' approach the Romulans were known for.
T'Varo Warbird Retrofit - the only Rom ship with enhanced BC.
current BOFF layout (still bugged on tribble)
tac:
++++
+
++
eng:
+++ (says sci in the description, but the consoles count and icon speak for themselves)
universal:
++
current console layout:
4tac, 3 eng, 2 sci
turnrate 18
hull 30k
weapon slots: 4 fore 3 aft
...............................................
where i see the problems:
- THIS was the ship which was meant to be the sci equivalent of the B'Rel
and there is currently NO Romulan ship with a Cmdr, the T'Varo should have at least a Lt.Cmdr. per default or as an universal station.
- IF this ship is the only with EBC, it is supposed to be a torpedo boat.
what do i need 3 aft slots for then??? (mines have big CD, bio-neural is nerfed)
suggestion:
give us this version:
consoles : 3, 3, 3
weapon slots: 4 fore 2 aft
BOFF slots:
tac:
++
+++
eng:
++
universal:
++++
+
or this:
tac:
++++
++
+
eng:
++
universal:
+++
so that we could make the ship we REALLY want to fly, for ANY career.
as a big B'rel fan i could also live with this:
tac:
++
+++
universal:
++++
++
and +1 universal console slot or a tac console slot
you could also consider this for the T1 shipyard fleet refit version. PLEASE
how many more think about it likewise here : http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=633401
Simple, yet effective solution.
Make it happen.
Hands off my ship of choice. As it stands, it is a Defiant with EBC and I want it just as it is - although replacing the tac ensign with a sci would be even better.
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
This would be a solution if the decreased power levels were to balance out the singularity core alone.
Unfortunately it is also being used to balance the existence of the Battle Cloak on a ship without penalties to hull strength and shield modifier.
I love the implosion effect of the singularity cores on the romulan ships when they explode. Much better than those of the federation and kdf ships. However, in star trek novels and such, the effect of a warp core breach would cause a subspace field emanation which would be similar to the implosion effect of the singularity core. Could such an effect be included for standard warp cores? That would make them interesting too. Also, any warp or singularity core provides power for the ship. I suggest that taking a core off a ship in space should make the power levels drop in some way. Say about 75% loss of power on all systems?
Also a warp core ejection system would be an idea. After all in the Trek series and films they could do this. Again, doing so could affect power levels. But it could be used as a "last chance" effect similar to the abandon ship ability (just an idea really).
All in all though, the new singularity cores are interesting. When I first saw them I didn't know whether I would like or dislike them, but they have grown on me as I tested them.
You can do this already; it's called "fly your ally's ships because you don't actually want to play a warbird."
Well first off that's all great until T5. Want to tell them what to do in T5 when they're not given that choice? Didn't think so.
The next problem is, if the warbird is nerfed to the point that its not as effective as equivalent Fed or KDF ships in STFs or PvP simply because of a very couple of situational powers, then it's not exactly balanced is it? What most of them are trying to do is come up with a way to fly a warbird, especially at T5, and not have them outclassed by Federation of KDF ships.
Taking away a BOff slot or a console slot, generally concidered some of the most helpful things in combat, most of which can be used every 30 seconds or so to a minute... or being so weak in shields and turning radius that they can't escape a Oddy, let alone a fully tricked out escort, because they're energy is so low, doesn't exactly sound balanced.
Sure, claiming get rid of my singularity core is a bit drastic, but hell that's only because the devs are THREATING us with taking away proven useful slots to force us into using their new shiny toys that are very, very situational.
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
Why a device slot? Because it'll limit the number and types of batteries we can carry to counter act the -5 energy loss, meaning we'll have to decide which system I want fully charged.
As one of the major ways to counter act lower energy, limiting the numbers would effectively gimp us minorly, without being over inconvienant.
Truth is, a -20 across board is like -4 engineering consoles (purple mk XII). That's pretty harsh. What about change the the consoles to +10 or even +15 ? Or better, change them to lovely percentages. Add +10% actual power in one subsystem. So it is +5 at 50 but +10 at 100.
Right now, I don't know anyone who uses +subsystem power consoles.
With typical ships you get a variety of subsystem boosts relevant to that type of ship. Exploration Cruiser and Assault Cruiser both get +5 to all substems, favoring a balanced ship; escorts generally get +15 to weapons, science schips +15 to aux.
Rather than a flat tax to all subsystems, could the various Warbirds have the inverse of this to represent the Captain making a tactical decision as to which subsystems s/he doesn't mind taxing to siphon off to feed the hungry singularity abilities? Whereas typical ships get their subsystem boosted, the Warbird counterpart's favoured subsystem would instead just not see any drain - its other subsystems would take one for the team.
For example a typical D'Deridex might have -5 to all subsystems (the Captain wants to tax the subsystems equally for a balanced ship, much like the exploration cruiser it was so often pitted against, gets +5 to all), and at balanced power levels would be 45/45/45/45.
Where a typical escort gets +15 to weapons, the T'Varo might have -10 to aux, and -5 shields and engines, so that at balanced power levels it's at 50/45/45/40 and its weapons are as potent as possible by default. A sci focused ship would be 40/45/45/50 by default, and so on. Future variants could then have different power level tax configurations for different playstyles (like you get with the assault cruiser refit compared to the plain old assault cruiser, a more aggressive susbstem power setup, etc).
I don't think removing console slots would be a good idea, not only because of how ridiculously hard it would become to keep up with other top tier ships, but because the singularity abilities aren't so thoroughly awesome that they're worth a few console slots.
Maybe a universal console that comes default with Warbids that does something useful to singularity abilities, enough so that it effectively takes up a console slot if you want your singularity abilities to be on par, and in removing it, you'd get that console slot to use for whatever you like, but you then you gimp your singularity abilities? Recharge time, plain old damage boost?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Would it be possible to allow warbirds to choose betweensingularity and warp cores? From the way it looks right now the abilities, power levels and different explosions are tied to the ship. I think it would be great if you could choose. For example I would keep the singularity core in a Kestrel runabout for the shield heal, but on my T'varo I would prefer the overall higher power levels for dps and to keep the ship together.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
It's been done, it's called a Bird of Prey. You don't like the warbird? Go Klingon and fly their BoPs. Problem solved.
Do you do anything berating others if they criticize anything about the warbirds?
Almost every single KDF player does.
Its called Plasmonic Leech. It is +16 to each power setting. Making it the equivalent of 16 engineering consoles.
It is the single greatest reason to choose KDF over Fed as a Romulan.
Seems like every argument about power level related issues comes back to Plasmonic Leech console.
They should have given warp/singularity cores themselves slots (up to three slots at tier 5), which could only take the currently useless power setting consoles, that way you get to set up yourself how and where you want extra bonus power in your subsystems.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
For me, Romulans emphasize brute force almost as much, or more so than Klingons, but it was more of a calculated cloak and dagger type thing. They show up, strike with overwhelming force, and leave. The battle cloak and its turn buff play amazingly well into that, allowing me to gain an advantageous first strike position. But the reduced power and singularity mechanic seem to favor drawn out battles, which plays just fine but doesn't sit right with my nit picky self.
As a suggestion, why not reverse the way the singularity mechanic works? Reduce the rate at which it charges up, but make it charge faster while cloaked and also charge out of combat. Also when its at Lv 5 have it adds power to all systems. Also make the singularity abilities themselves more potent. In return if you must, reduce either hull strength or turn rate (someone's gonna kill me for that one).
The net effect would be to make the warbirds truly "high risk high reward". They would enter a battle with cloak, full power, and a potent singularity ability. The singularity abilities should be ones that can tip the balance, but in return after you fire one off you ship becomes less effective compared to equivalent KDF or FED ships.
A romulan captain entering battle can choose to alpha strike his enemy with everything and hope that the damage he does makes up for the reduced power of his ship after, but if it fails he has to either keep fighting with a less effective ship or attempt to cloak and speed up the recharge on his singularity to regain the upper hand.
Just my two cents.
TLDR: Singularity mechanic and possible power level solution?
I like this suggestion, though I'd probably only allow the core to charge while cloaked. But either way will give the desired effect.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
D'deridex Sci. Same BOFF layout as current different Console config.
1 CMDR ENG, 1 LT CMDR ENG, 1 LT TAC, 1 LT SCI, 1 ENS SCI.
4 ENG, 3 SCI, 2 TAC.
D'deridex Tac Same console config different BOFF Config.
1 CMDR ENG, 1 LT CMDR ENG, 1 LT SCI, 1 LT TAC, 1 ENS TAC
4 ENG, 2 SCI, 3 TAC
D'Deridex Eng. Different BOFF and Console Config.
1 CMDR ENG, 1 LT CMDR ENG, 1 ENS ENG, 1 LT SCI, 1 LT TAC
5 ENG, 2 SCI, 2 TAC.
Or my original Suggestion of making the Ensign slot Universal. All these ships would have the same one unique console.
T5? Lockboxes. You're covered.
Nerfed to the point of ineffectiveness? We haven't even gotten a chance to try everything it can do and people are screaming to have it turned into a carbon copy of every other damn ship out there. If they don't want to use it, then DON'T. But DON'T try to kill it off before we even get a chance to see it shine. I agree, removing BOff or console slots would be a terrible idea, but all the whinging about the power levels, they don't even understand how to properly use what they're getting in exchange.
Too weak in shields...well, their shield capacity isn't weakened, but regen will suffer under sustained fire. It's a pity they can't just drop out of combat whenever they want to reco...oh, they can? Or they can drop clones, or have a shield regen on hand that is equally useful regardless of power level? Oh, hey....
As for "can't outrun the Odyssey", can the Odyssey triple its base turn rate whenever it damn well feels like it? Again, the Battle Cloak buffs speed, maneuverability, defense, damage, and we have the as yet unknown Singularity Jump waiting for us too, but all people keep squawking about is the power levels. It's like they're not even TRYING to think how they can adapt to take advantage of all that they're getting, but they KNOW they won't be able to play the same way they always have, and if they can't do it, nobody should!
And this sort of thing happens in EVERY MMO, over and over. "Well, we like that you introduced this new character class that uses dice for weapons for really randomized combat and relies on evades, all we want you to do is to give him heavy armor and a sword that does constant DPS so we can keep playing like we always have."
If you don't like adapting to a different playstyle, don't play the Warbird. You don't have to; there's no one forcing you. Just leave it for me, and I'll show you how well it can work.
Interesting notion, but while it would make Warbirds much more powerful in the kinds of one-off encounters you see in episodes, it would significantly weaken them for the longer sustained battles like you see in STFs. It also means that you spend a lot of time in battle not actually in battle, and that's rather boring. Because of that, given the choice between the current singularity mechanics and yours, I'd have to choose the current ones.
I would rather have the Lt Commander slot as universal, or tactical-science-engineering as per ship style.
Was waiting for someone to bring this up. In an STF where sustained damage is sometimes more important, a warbird can just fight like any other ship. Keep the singularity at lv 5 to bring the power levels on par with other ships so that they can do the sustained damage necessary.
STF do have those "aww TRIBBLE.." moments like when someone misses the massive rush of probes to the gate in KA or a tac cube singles you out for that special high yield torpedo. In that case the warbird can cut loose and fire off its special ability (with current singularity power strength this obviously won't work. They're simply too weak)
However, the realities of the skill tree placement, ship equipment tiers, and captain and boff ability progression mean that the impact of -10 v. -5 will play out very differently at 50 v. 20.
Please give us a period of time after the tribble cap has hit 50 to revert back to -10. Let us live with it, kick the tires, and see what kind of numbers are actually spit out.
A tribble, btw, with radically altered EPTx, new rep, new captain abilities... -10 v. -5 may also feel different at cap S7 v. LoR.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
I berate the people whose "solution" is to turn the Warbird into a standard Fed or Klingon ship with a new shell. For other commentary, I provide appropriate feedback. I haven't seen any actually better systems proposed yet (some decent-sounding ideas, but have too big of drawbacks when further examined), but I'm keeping my eye out.
I've also been looking at ways to make the most out of the Warbird's advantages, but every time I point something out, I get responses like "yeah, but that can't POSSIBLY beat my escort's highly-tuned DPS monstrosity, therefore it should be ripped out and let me use my techniques so I can implement my high-DPS escort tactics in the Warbird." So please excuse me when I point out that they should just play their damn escort instead.
I played the missions on normal, although normally I play on elite on holodeck.
I enjoyed the very powerful and nimble T'Varo, very TOS. I?m not a fan of the Dhelan?s look but the extra aft and fore slots were nice. If I had a T?Varo skin that would have been great. A glitch prevented me from claiming and playing a Mogai during my first run through the missions.
I created a Sci and the assigned ensign slots in the ships were limiting and frustrating. The Tal Shiar deflector glitch, which removed access to HE 1, dampened my enthusiasm also. That said, I?d love to see a Tal Shiar set.
The Singularity powers are interesting as is the exotic damage modifiers but nothing I regularly incorporated into my playstyle. I like the concept of singularity powers, but their timing made it hard to incorporate them into consistent tactics.
From time to time I actively tried to use them tactically but the erratic build up of the power to the top tier led to difficult choices to either use the power at the moment of top off and do a bit of damage (there was rarely a chance to plan out a heal) or chance waiting to use the power and wasting additional incoming enemy energy. Given the choice of a limited damage burst or heal I often went with the limited damage burst; and this while trying to drop a shield facing so that the burst did a bit of damage.
Plasma Shockwave/Pulse was very powerful at lower levels but by levels 21 and 22 was doing negligible damage. I dropped the power from my Holodeck Sci because I could put slot a more useful power. Overall the heal was more useful but also limited and sporadic in use. HE1 was better for heals on my ship, but the deflector glitch cost me my ship a few times when I could not use either heals.
If I play through the missions again I?ll have to try to use the burst defensively to destroy incoming torpedoes.
Are the inclusion of the Pulse and Heal worth the -10 to my subsystems? No. The powers are too sporadic. I have a defined loss, -10 to subsystems, but not a defined gain.