In general I agree with the this in terms of trolls and afkers. However you are also saying you want to punish the under equipped and inexperienced. That is just plain wrong.
In terms of the under equipped they are most likely there to fix that little problem. I would rather team with an under equipped player who knows what he is doing and has a good attitude over the fully kitted out player who barks orders and insults people for accidentally TRIBBLE up.
As for inexperienced players, well how do you expect them to get any better if people keep ignoring them and they can't get into a group. If you have more experience and know the stf like the back of your hand great, pass that experience on to the newbies, teach them and nurture them. There are enough nubs in this game already, don't expand that population by punishing the new players who really want to learn.
For those who do not know the difference between a Newbie/Newb and a Noob/Nub I direct you here, you will learn something and hopefully get a chuckle at the same time.
I have had it up to here (holding hand above my head) with players who have been around for a while and act as though it gives them a license to insult and/or talk down to the newbies. Yes some times they can be extremely frustrating but its YOUR job to educate them and help them grow as players.
So yeah afkers, trolls and griefers deserve the worst things in this world, but don't include the inexperienced and/or under equipped in with them.
I thought you had a point until you linked a comic made by Tim Buckley. :P
But no, I think the general consensus is that barring an underequipped player isn't necessarily being suggested here... as long as said player listens to advice/suggestions during the action. I've had plenty of situations where an obviously underequipped player starts aggroing and destorying things before anyone is ready to deal with the consequences. Let's take.. ISE for example. That one is easy to TRIBBLE up at first, yeah. Not going to lie. And after people deal with the fallout from the first transformer, generally something is said to the guilty, be it as an accident or whatever.
Usually they will apologize and listen to what is said. To those new players I am grateful. But many other times, they will outright ignore the chat, and then proceed to TRIBBLE up the other generator, doing the exact sasme thing. Let's say popping a generator before the cube is even dead. So then everyone else has to deal with the cube as well as incoming sphetes. Does that seem cool? Not really. Players like that need to learn that ignoring their teammates is going to have consequences.
do NOT team me with people on my ignore list
do PREFER to team me with people on my FRIEND list!
-> quality of Queue matches would skyrocket for everyone.
if this works for Xbox Live SYSTEM WIDE, then it can't be that hard to compare 5 - 20 lists of ASCII names.
the lists are saved online there isn't even an up/download process... just comparing a bit of text before someobdy gets added to a queue.
If Cryptics servers can't handle that... they better get some new ones because that is very basic stuff.
at the end of the day, the unique reason behind an ignore button press doesn't matter,
if i put someone on a IGNORE LIST i do NEVER want to see hear or play together with that person again, not just MUTE him in a chat.
unless i remove him from that list (also i should be able to make a note for myself when and why i banned someone... why is there a free-text field for my Friend list but not one for my ignore list?).
If there are people that are trigger happy and ban you for no good reason, so be it, you are probably better off not playing with those guys anyway.
The fear alone of getting ignored by many other players and therefore have increased wait times in the queue should be enough reason for anybody with half a brain to NOT AFK regularly.
As long as there is no fear of any kind or form of consequence, people will just keep doing it.
Why do the devs need to code in a feature because of AFKers?
DO NOT PUG!!!!!!
first: putting someone on IGNORE should actually IGNORE that person completely. If you ask me the very functionality of the button is incomplete unless the PvE + PvP queues do filter for it.
It's a MUTE button, not an IGNORE button.
"DO NOT PUG!"
is no solution to the problem. Many Players do not use chat channels like EliteSTF.
Also the only good channels i know are for STFs and a Red Alert announcement channel...
I would have no idea where to go for a private round of Mine Trap ... (not to mention that Mine Trap is bugged to hell and puts everyone in a private queue at that odd respawn point, instead of spawning groups together in one of the zones... it's kind of hard to play that one like that anyway).
There are ressons players go afk either it is to long or it need tweaking.
going AFK because you have to is not the problem (then you writhe "sorry got to AFK real short" in the chat, nobody will ban you for that), being intentionally AFK from start to finish, or tabbing out, just to grab the default completion reward is the problem. you may not have run into one of those AFKers, but when Mine Trap was new, i had like one or two AFKers in my team PER ROUND.
After 2 Weeks it was so annoying that i started to put them on the Ignore list anyway.
By now i'm not playing it anymore because i'm done with the Rep System, so i can't comment on the current state of AFKers in there.
I am against everything that can be used to abuse. Exact same reason we don't have a votekick function.
However, if this worked so the person doing the ignoring got dropped from queues and not the target I wouldn't have a problem with it.
Add to this we got way too many sensitive people in sto.
Honestly I don't care what people say or do it's a free country and either which you put it I am still carrying people who don't know belong on stf anyway.
It makes zero difference to me if these people afk it or show up with the minigun it's still the same amount of work on me.
Basically you just need 3 people that can play to beat the maps and luckily that happens more often that not.
If you get into a bad situation you go play on another character while on CD or if it really bothers you THAT much play with your fleet or use the chat channels to find groups.
This solution has been suggested before. When I have seen threads started addressing the AFK issue and harrassment issue the same trolls come on and reply "dont pug" or "dont go to Dronza" or "only play with people you know" That is not a solution or resolution to the issue. That is just someone being a jerk and trying to get a rise out of you. The vote kick option would be abused and used to grief others. But having the ignore feature prevent the player from loading into a mission or zone where someone on your ignore list is would work. Now the only downside is loading time. It may increase load time and decrease server stability having to load your ignore list and the scan for current players in zone and then redirect to an open zone you can load into. Other games can do it so its not impossible.
Please do not assume that people are "just trying to be jerks". People view the situation in different ways and the AFK-ing may not bother them as much so they don't see why it bothers other people.
True, those people have no good reason to vent their annoyance with those who are bothered and I do wish everyone would state their opinions about the mechanics of the proposal and leave it at that.
It's certainly probable that players who rely on leeching will oppose anything that cuts them off. But you can't prove 'beyond reasonable doubt' that forum poster "X" is a leech and you're not allowed to accuse them of it here.
As far as the proposal goes, it's true that it's not a new one. There are a couple of probable reasons why it hasn't been done in STO up to this point.
1. Some people may not be aware that the ignore list is not unlimited. It has a finite length and the oldest names drop off when it's exceeded. So if you're thinking that the ignore list will save you from ever having to deal with that person again... think twice.
At best, if you're regularly using the ignore feature, you'll be giving that person a "time-out".
2. The Devs have explained to us before that there will be "technical difficulties" involved in making you totally invisible to the people you ignore and vice versa. They might be able to apply something like this to the queues, but they haven't made any promises.
I would expect that they will not be seriously looking at this until they get a season to focus on PvP and queue enhancements. And I doubt we'll ever get the "total invisibility" that some people are asking for. (My opinion.)
3. I think a lot of people assume that GM reports are never looked at and thus there is no point. So they're looking for a technical solution to remove the need to file a GM report and to put their personal game experience under their complete control. Essentially, to remove the people they don't like from their own slice of STO.
But maybe the problem is that people aren't filing enough reports, or that many reports are filed frivolously or with insufficient information, or that Cryptic is having trouble managing that information in a way that lets them take action fairly. For sure, no one will ever know whether their report got acted on or not because Cryptic isn't going to share what actions they take behind the scenes. The "Report to GM" function is a black box and a lot of people are going to assume that no response means no action.
And as far as orchestrating one's own game experience goes, people seriously think they can avoid having to deal with other people they don't like in an MMO? There is a reason why some people are saying "if you don't like it, don't PUG".
Control what you can and accept what you can't. I'm not saying that we shouldn't ask for Quality of Life enhancements like this, and I believe Cryptic definitely needs to look at some kind of disincentive for people who are leeching and other kinds of misbehavior.
I'm just saying not everything can be fixed by software, and what can be fixed might end up being a double-edged sword that cuts in unintended ways.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
If we strip away all the reasons people want a vote kick or want the ignore feature to prevent teaming up with AFK'rs it all boils down to the leaver penality.
If you join a pug with some jerk or someone is AFK, or its just a big tickle fest with 4 Rainbow Odesseys you should be able to leave without a one hour penalty. I never understood the penalty anyway. So what if several people drop out. Just leave and queue up for the next one. The harassment of the people that RP at Dronza is a different matter. That is mostly being done by members of one particular fleet and the GM's really need to step in and do someting beacuse that type of behaviour should not be allowed to continue. But the leachers that are ruining the PVE missions would not be able to continue to profit from thier actions if a team could just up and leave them hanging. Do the Devs really think that if there were no leaver penality that it would break the system? Or that people would start an STF and leave if say the optional was failed? Or see they got a team with 4 SCI toons and no escourts and then drop? If there was no leaver penality then none of this would be an issue.
3. I think a lot of people assume that GM reports are never looked at and thus there is no point. So they're looking for a technical solution to remove the need to file a GM report and to put their personal game experience under their complete control. Essentially, to remove the people they don't like from their own slice of STO.
But maybe the problem is that people aren't filing enough reports, or that many reports are filed frivolously or with insufficient information, or that Cryptic is having trouble managing that information in a way that lets them take action fairly. For sure, no one will ever know whether their report got acted on or not because Cryptic isn't going to share what actions they take behind the scenes. The "Report to GM" function is a black box and a lot of people are going to assume that no response means no action.
I have to say i agree with this opinion.
But
- typing a ticket because of a user who AFKs in a hectic map where you are already one man short.... is even more counter productive, and i probably will have forgotten the @handle anyway.
- what is insufficient informationg for a GM? if i type "AFKer" that is all the information needed... if 20 people at different times report the same user... then action can be taken.
BUT the thing is, i have yet to hear from anyone that action WAS taken.
Sure the GMs will not discuss it, the Moderators will not, but we players sure do complain to each other, and warn each other, if we feel we have been treated unfairly (and believe me almost nobody who gets *moderated* ever agrees with it), i have heard all kinds of people complaining about various actions that were taken against them,
Not ONCE have i heard of anyone getting punished because of leeching.
Not once have i heard from someone that had heard from someone that got punished because of AFK leeching...
Therefore my judgement is, until that happens, it doesn't happen.
If there is no fear of punishment then people don't care.
I don't even know what Cryptic WOULD do in that case?
Give the player a week off from the game? and risking that he doesn't come back after it?
That is the last thing Cryptic wants to do... Players = MONEY, kicking the player = NO MONEY.
So yes i am pretty much on the *doesn't help anyway* boat.
Worse, typing that ticket keeps ME from participating for that long...
rightclick ignore = fast.
ALSO i do not wish to give that other Player any kind of trouble.
I do not know who he is, maybe my ticket is even in error, maybe he has spend a lot of money on his account, i would hate to be responsible for him to loose access to his stuff, even if it was temporary.
I do NOT want a GM to kick him (for a week) or anything like that.
I just do not wish to PLAY with him AGAIN, therefore IGNORE LIST.
That people drop out of the Ignore list at the end?
that is not cool...
I did not know that, i never had that many users on it, and since it is just a MUTE function for the Chat window i see no reason to keep players muted forever.
There are maybe 5 so far that have earned a permanent spot on there...
BUT the thing is, i have yet to hear from anyone that action WAS taken.
Sure the GMs will not discuss it, the Moderators will not, but we players sure do complain to each other, and warn each other, if we feel we have been treated unfairly (and believe me almost nobody who gets *moderated* ever agrees with it), i have heard all kinds of people complaining about various actions that were taken against them,
Not ONCE have i heard of anyone getting punished because of leeching.
Not once have i heard from someone that had heard from someone that got punished because of AFK leeching...
Therefore my judgement is, until that happens, it doesn't happen.
If there is no fear of punishment then people don't care.
You're probably right. Fact is, they've told us they've talked internally about the "AFK" problem but I haven't heard them say how they plan to address it.
That people drop out of the Ignore list at the end?
that is not cool...
I did not know that, i never had that many users on it, and since it is just a MUTE function for the Chat window i see no reason to keep players muted forever.
There are maybe 5 so far that have earned a permanent spot on there...
Just to clarify this point, we were told by the Devs at one point that the ignore list held a certain number of @ names. I don't remember exactly how many, but more than a few. It's basically a stack. It will hold up to that number of names indefinitely. But if you exceed the size of the stack the first one in "pops out" and the last one in gets added to the bottom of the stack.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
i dont see why the system lets you team up with people you ignore
if you ignored them, it was because they were bothering you.. maybe harassing.. or spamming.. or whatever.
not you have this person on your team?
they cant talk to you.. so they are useless..
the system shouldnt allow this to happen..
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
But I think that it should be voted in by the team if they are out for like say 2 or 3min. The one member of the team, team leader, put in as kick from team and the rest of the team vote in either kick him from team or keep in team. If he gets unanimous vote he is kicked out of game explaining why. The team now with 4 should get either expanded time or enemy dropped at one or two levels until a replacement is found. However once say on the final task when fighting the last boss the kick out option is expired. If the person gets kicked out so many times a day he gets a temp ban for like say a week amd if he keeps on the number goes up leading to a perm ban. It may not be the best solution but it may help as a deterent also it would be hard to exploit and abuse. Just a thought.
I totally disagree with the OP. This would mean that many noobs who make a bad run get ignored by many self proclaimed experts.
I would prefer a system that kicks an AFK player from the team and thus the reward.
In my early ESTF days I did the best I could but one of those arrogant players just wanted to prove his superiority by sending a tell that my DPS was fail.
But when asking how to fix, i was put on ignore... We need less crybaby topics and more lets help the noob topics.
But I think that it should be voted in by the team if they are out for like say 2 or 3min.
that wouldn't work, professional AFKers usually have some kind of script running to not get marked as AFK by the System... usually just hammering the NEED button on all loot that drops.
So you need a full blown vote kick mechanic, and that can really be abused...
You mean the various elite STF channels that can get you laughed at and maybe even kicked depending on who's on because you don't know all the ins and outs of how exactly that particular channel wants you to word your STF announcements?
Seems like that's the case.
One person actually responded in a positive way to my query. Everyone else basically exhibited the kind of behavior you seem to expect from these channels.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
The Devs have explained to us before that there will be "technical difficulties" involved in making you totally invisible to the people you ignore and vice versa. They might be able to apply something like this to the queues, but they haven't made any promises. [/QUOTE.]
We understand that invisibility is unreasonable to expect at this point in game development. But my suggestion to not be teamed up with people on my ignore list is a viable alternative that helps to enhance gameplay.
I think a lot of people assume that GM reports are never looked at and thus there is no point [/QUOTE.]
Exactly because no matter how many times people get reported for infractions like fleet raiding for example the offenders do not get banned. Since us players are told nothing of the results we are led to believe there never was any action taken and our complaint was merely deleted.
So they're looking for a technical solution to remove the need to file a GM report and to put their personal game experience under their complete control. Essentially, to remove the people they don't like from their own slice of STO. [/Quote.]
Exactly and what I suggested would work using the ignore button. Frankly, I am disappointed to hear that the Ignore button was a "Temporary" mute button. I don't buy the explanation of the drop off theory it seems like someone could do more about this. Tell me does this also apply to your friend list once you have so many the others drop off? If not then STO can and should retain the Ignore information.
And as far as orchestrating one's own game experience goes, people seriously think they can avoid having to deal with other people they don't like in an MMO?
Why yes, since we spend money that creates the jobs these people are doing, we have the audacity to believe that we are entitled to enjoy our game without having to deal with people who we deem offensive. Like someone earlier stated, X-Box does it and on a much greater scale. "Pirates of The Caribbean" a Disney owned MMO does it and has actual MODS who police behavior and are on 24-7 and their MODS always get back to you with the results of thier investigations. Obviously CRYPTIC will never spend the money to do that. So we are left to trying to find a technical solution to the social problem. Enhancing the ignore button solves that problem.The code is already written for a friends page it would not take much to create a duplicate of the friends list page and call it your Ignore page and list the people there you do not wish to be teamed up with. Like someone else said have a comment section out to the side for the offender. It is that simple... then we can continue the game without dealing with the ones we deem offensive. The side effect is you no longer flood the GM's with tons of complaints over player behavior. leaving them to concentrate on things like... fixing known issues like soft walls and other bugs.
Think of it this way in Dollars... More people play when they do not have to deal with adverse or offensive people. More people play that means they spend more money. The Paying Customer Retention Rate alone should be enough to make CRYPTIC want to do this type of technical solution. Give us what we ask for and we spend more money it is that simple.
I totally disagree with the OP. This would mean that many noobs who make a bad run get ignored by many self proclaimed experts.
I would prefer a system that kicks an AFK player from the team and thus the reward.
In my early ESTF days I did the best I could but one of those arrogant players just wanted to prove his superiority by sending a tell that my DPS was fail.
But when asking how to fix, i was put on ignore... We need less crybaby topics and more lets help the noob topics.
It works both ways. A lot of people will get in your face if you try to explain what they're doing wrong and ways they can address the issue, and even moreso if you try to explain what may be inefficient with their build even if you go about it in a polite way. I know I'm not the only one who's gotten tired of getting things like "F U" as a reply after trying to explain to someone that Warp Plasma would be better used in delaying a wave of Raptors instead of dumping it on a cube in CSE, or constantly spamming TBR and pushing enemies out of Gravwells or pushing nanite spheres toward the generators instead of away from them in ISE is a bad thing.
In general I agree with the this in terms of trolls and afkers. However you are also saying you want to punish the under equipped and inexperienced. That is just plain wrong.
In terms of the under equipped they are most likely there to fix that little problem. I would rather team with an under equipped player who knows what he is doing and has a good attitude over the fully kitted out player who barks orders and insults people for accidentally TRIBBLE up.
As for inexperienced players, well how do you expect them to get any better if people keep ignoring them and they can't get into a group. If you have more experience and know the stf like the back of your hand great, pass that experience on to the newbies, teach them and nurture them. There are enough nubs in this game already, don't expand that population by punishing the new players who really want to learn.
For those who do not know the difference between a Newbie/Newb and a Noob/Nub I direct you here, you will learn something and hopefully get a chuckle at the same time.
I have had it up to here (holding hand above my head) with players who have been around for a while and act as though it gives them a license to insult and/or talk down to the newbies. Yes some times they can be extremely frustrating but its YOUR job to educate them and help them grow as players.
So yeah afkers, trolls and griefers deserve the worst things in this world, but don't include the inexperienced and/or under equipped in with them.
I just keep liking you every time I read one of your posts.
Nope. I definitely don't mean those. That sounds terrible. Sorry you had a bad experience. Ask around, there are a couple of GOOD ones out there that have no such shenanigans.
Point is, the resources to 100% avoid AFKers and leechers are out there, and are easy to find and take advantage of. This game doesn't need to have developers waste their time devising and implementing a system (that furthermore will be abused by trolls and/or elitists and will likely not work as you want it too) that totally filters out a minor inconvenience, when you yourself can do just that with far less effort.
I think that time and those resources be better used on content and bug fixes. Call me crazy.
ACTUALLY
There are lots of devs out there who create these things called dungeons...and in these dungeons it takes EVERY member of the team to complete it.
The solution is creating content that needs an entire team. Really hard I know.
well, i can understand that it is annoying to have newbie's and noobs in youre team.
take fleet defense for example, if you have a lt cmdr lvl 20 in youre team,you have more chance to loose,the loot drops are lower,wich means less money,list goes on and on.
same for stf's,wich stf is more likely to complete without failing the optional or the mission itself?
a stf with people in mk 10 common gear who blow up the generator before even killing the cube/sphere?
or the stf with people in maco shielding who know there part,and act like it?
there are normal and elite levels,why are they there?
elite rewards more,so even the newbie's start with the elite stf's,because of the higher rewards.
but they are not ready.
the best solution is:
people who hit vice admiral, need to do normal first, with optional, 5 total, doesnt matter if it is cure/khitomer/conduit, if they have at least 1 time the optional on each, the last 2 are free to pick,why?
this way new players learn the drill,together as newbie's,so they are most succesfull in the elite stf's,and dont annoy the players in elite's with TRIBBLE it up.
also, i have no problems with newbie's,but ask if you dont know,read youreself in to the guide's online.
do some homework on builds.
yesterday i did an stf elite,conduit, i got a player in my team wich asks: hey guys, i dont know how to run thisone, can someone explain?
thats the attitude we all are looking for.
and not the other 2 people,who dont ask,can read the way to do the mission in chat but dont care about it,and kill the generators to fast.
yeah,thats why most people have problems with them.
and about the fleet marks,make it scaling put commanders with other commanders in a qeue,make the enemy's scaling with level,and the fleet mark rewards scaling....
that way va's can get there reward for there work,and the lt cmdrs's can do it on there own level, win -win.
they dont blow up because enemy's are to strong, va's can get there level loot and reward, end of the problems in both example's.
do i hate newbie's?
no
but i hate people who dont ask for help,and ar "playing" stupid.
I agree with the poster on having a page just like a friend page of ignored people that don't drop off. Let's be honest here... not everybody can get along and that is okay. What the original post has suggested is very reasonable. No offence to Bluegeek, but could we have a actual DEV or actual GM weigh in on this subject?
1. Take friend page, copy the code and change name to ignore list.
2. Write a piece of code that sorts teams so that you cannot be teamed with people on your ignore list.
For example:
If ricorosebud or arnthebard don't want to be teamed up with each other because one or the other or both have ignored the other then they both go happily on thier merry way. That seems like such a simple and effective idea. It is almost too easy...
OP: I have a simpler idea ... have an automatic log off timer.
The character sits idle for ... 20 minutes (arbitrary for an example) ... an I mean no keys or mouse movement - the player has simply walked away from the keyboard or falling asleep, then the game just kicks you out.
For people who make dinner or have continence issues while playing ... too bad.
No offence to Bluegeek, but could we have a actual DEV or actual GM weigh in on this subject?
No offense taken
Getting a Dev reply is something I can't help you with, though...
~ Bluegeek <-- { Not a Dev }
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
OP: I have a simpler idea ... have an automatic log off timer.
The character sits idle for ... 20 minutes (arbitrary for an example) ... an I mean no keys or mouse movement - the player has simply walked away from the keyboard or falling asleep, then the game just kicks you out.
For people who make dinner or have continence issues while playing ... too bad.
To me, this is most judicial
This idea already exsists one problem is there are BOTS [Prohibited by STO] that activate these AFK players so they can avoid the consequences. Even if one does not have a bot there is a problem with your idea the average STF takes less than 20 mins to complete depending on your team. So a AFK player can TRIBBLE you over while they are otherwise occupied and can farm a reward for doing nothing. There is the problem and you may get teamed back up with the same guy on your next STF. That is the reason for asking for a enhanced Ignore button. TRIBBLE me once shame on you , TRIBBLE me twice shame on me.
Frankly the original post is asthetic of a solution as it gets. No heated discussions or hurt feelings. Just a simple ignore. Then everyone goes on thier merry way.
completely agree, and I can't understand how people think this is going to be abused, oO it's your own private ignore list, it doesn't affect anyone else and you can't simply type in a * to get a list of all of the people online.
And even if you can it's your own ignore list it will just make you impossible to team with, and if you do put everyone but a few people on your own ignore list it will only affect you. weird that people think this is a bad idea.
It's not like it's adding that 1 person to everyone's ignore list.
This is a definite must! I loved this in other games with a LFG system and I find it help keep these people out of parties so it will only harm those who abuse AFK.
Last night I decided to do a Starbase fleet defence (20 player mission) Right offf the bat my team only had 4. As soon as the mission started I noticed 1 was not with our team, he was off flying around in circles above the starbase and another team member was leeching and just sitting by the starbase "needing" on the drops but not fighting. So I had enought. No way 2 of us can save the freighters, so I decide to leave. I was able to warp out and then queue up for another one with no penality or cooldown timer on the mission. So on the Fleet mark missions there is no penalty. Are STF's special? Is there a reason they have a leaver penalty and the other PVE missions dont?
Comments
I thought you had a point until you linked a comic made by Tim Buckley. :P
But no, I think the general consensus is that barring an underequipped player isn't necessarily being suggested here... as long as said player listens to advice/suggestions during the action. I've had plenty of situations where an obviously underequipped player starts aggroing and destorying things before anyone is ready to deal with the consequences. Let's take.. ISE for example. That one is easy to TRIBBLE up at first, yeah. Not going to lie. And after people deal with the fallout from the first transformer, generally something is said to the guilty, be it as an accident or whatever.
Usually they will apologize and listen to what is said. To those new players I am grateful. But many other times, they will outright ignore the chat, and then proceed to TRIBBLE up the other generator, doing the exact sasme thing. Let's say popping a generator before the cube is even dead. So then everyone else has to deal with the cube as well as incoming sphetes. Does that seem cool? Not really. Players like that need to learn that ignoring their teammates is going to have consequences.
i already made this suggestion myself before.
do NOT team me with people on my ignore list
do PREFER to team me with people on my FRIEND list!
-> quality of Queue matches would skyrocket for everyone.
if this works for Xbox Live SYSTEM WIDE, then it can't be that hard to compare 5 - 20 lists of ASCII names.
the lists are saved online there isn't even an up/download process... just comparing a bit of text before someobdy gets added to a queue.
If Cryptics servers can't handle that... they better get some new ones because that is very basic stuff.
at the end of the day, the unique reason behind an ignore button press doesn't matter,
if i put someone on a IGNORE LIST i do NEVER want to see hear or play together with that person again, not just MUTE him in a chat.
unless i remove him from that list (also i should be able to make a note for myself when and why i banned someone... why is there a free-text field for my Friend list but not one for my ignore list?).
If there are people that are trigger happy and ban you for no good reason, so be it, you are probably better off not playing with those guys anyway.
The fear alone of getting ignored by many other players and therefore have increased wait times in the queue should be enough reason for anybody with half a brain to NOT AFK regularly.
As long as there is no fear of any kind or form of consequence, people will just keep doing it.
first: putting someone on IGNORE should actually IGNORE that person completely. If you ask me the very functionality of the button is incomplete unless the PvE + PvP queues do filter for it.
It's a MUTE button, not an IGNORE button.
"DO NOT PUG!"
is no solution to the problem. Many Players do not use chat channels like EliteSTF.
Also the only good channels i know are for STFs and a Red Alert announcement channel...
I would have no idea where to go for a private round of Mine Trap ... (not to mention that Mine Trap is bugged to hell and puts everyone in a private queue at that odd respawn point, instead of spawning groups together in one of the zones... it's kind of hard to play that one like that anyway).
going AFK because you have to is not the problem (then you writhe "sorry got to AFK real short" in the chat, nobody will ban you for that), being intentionally AFK from start to finish, or tabbing out, just to grab the default completion reward is the problem. you may not have run into one of those AFKers, but when Mine Trap was new, i had like one or two AFKers in my team PER ROUND.
After 2 Weeks it was so annoying that i started to put them on the Ignore list anyway.
By now i'm not playing it anymore because i'm done with the Rep System, so i can't comment on the current state of AFKers in there.
However, if this worked so the person doing the ignoring got dropped from queues and not the target I wouldn't have a problem with it.
Add to this we got way too many sensitive people in sto.
Honestly I don't care what people say or do it's a free country and either which you put it I am still carrying people who don't know belong on stf anyway.
It makes zero difference to me if these people afk it or show up with the minigun it's still the same amount of work on me.
Basically you just need 3 people that can play to beat the maps and luckily that happens more often that not.
If you get into a bad situation you go play on another character while on CD or if it really bothers you THAT much play with your fleet or use the chat channels to find groups.
Please do not assume that people are "just trying to be jerks". People view the situation in different ways and the AFK-ing may not bother them as much so they don't see why it bothers other people.
True, those people have no good reason to vent their annoyance with those who are bothered and I do wish everyone would state their opinions about the mechanics of the proposal and leave it at that.
It's certainly probable that players who rely on leeching will oppose anything that cuts them off. But you can't prove 'beyond reasonable doubt' that forum poster "X" is a leech and you're not allowed to accuse them of it here.
As far as the proposal goes, it's true that it's not a new one. There are a couple of probable reasons why it hasn't been done in STO up to this point.
1. Some people may not be aware that the ignore list is not unlimited. It has a finite length and the oldest names drop off when it's exceeded. So if you're thinking that the ignore list will save you from ever having to deal with that person again... think twice.
At best, if you're regularly using the ignore feature, you'll be giving that person a "time-out".
2. The Devs have explained to us before that there will be "technical difficulties" involved in making you totally invisible to the people you ignore and vice versa. They might be able to apply something like this to the queues, but they haven't made any promises.
I would expect that they will not be seriously looking at this until they get a season to focus on PvP and queue enhancements. And I doubt we'll ever get the "total invisibility" that some people are asking for. (My opinion.)
3. I think a lot of people assume that GM reports are never looked at and thus there is no point. So they're looking for a technical solution to remove the need to file a GM report and to put their personal game experience under their complete control. Essentially, to remove the people they don't like from their own slice of STO.
But maybe the problem is that people aren't filing enough reports, or that many reports are filed frivolously or with insufficient information, or that Cryptic is having trouble managing that information in a way that lets them take action fairly. For sure, no one will ever know whether their report got acted on or not because Cryptic isn't going to share what actions they take behind the scenes. The "Report to GM" function is a black box and a lot of people are going to assume that no response means no action.
And as far as orchestrating one's own game experience goes, people seriously think they can avoid having to deal with other people they don't like in an MMO? There is a reason why some people are saying "if you don't like it, don't PUG".
Control what you can and accept what you can't. I'm not saying that we shouldn't ask for Quality of Life enhancements like this, and I believe Cryptic definitely needs to look at some kind of disincentive for people who are leeching and other kinds of misbehavior.
I'm just saying not everything can be fixed by software, and what can be fixed might end up being a double-edged sword that cuts in unintended ways.
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If you join a pug with some jerk or someone is AFK, or its just a big tickle fest with 4 Rainbow Odesseys you should be able to leave without a one hour penalty. I never understood the penalty anyway. So what if several people drop out. Just leave and queue up for the next one. The harassment of the people that RP at Dronza is a different matter. That is mostly being done by members of one particular fleet and the GM's really need to step in and do someting beacuse that type of behaviour should not be allowed to continue. But the leachers that are ruining the PVE missions would not be able to continue to profit from thier actions if a team could just up and leave them hanging. Do the Devs really think that if there were no leaver penality that it would break the system? Or that people would start an STF and leave if say the optional was failed? Or see they got a team with 4 SCI toons and no escourts and then drop? If there was no leaver penality then none of this would be an issue.
nobody gets "dropped" from a queue.
If user A has user B on ignore they are just not queued together in the same queue.
User A will be in Queue 1
User B will be in Queue 2
simple as that.
and pressing the ignore button while you are in the same STF doesn't kick that person from the map. It will just not queue you up together again.
I have to say i agree with this opinion.
But
- typing a ticket because of a user who AFKs in a hectic map where you are already one man short.... is even more counter productive, and i probably will have forgotten the @handle anyway.
- what is insufficient informationg for a GM? if i type "AFKer" that is all the information needed... if 20 people at different times report the same user... then action can be taken.
BUT the thing is, i have yet to hear from anyone that action WAS taken.
Sure the GMs will not discuss it, the Moderators will not, but we players sure do complain to each other, and warn each other, if we feel we have been treated unfairly (and believe me almost nobody who gets *moderated* ever agrees with it), i have heard all kinds of people complaining about various actions that were taken against them,
Not ONCE have i heard of anyone getting punished because of leeching.
Not once have i heard from someone that had heard from someone that got punished because of AFK leeching...
Therefore my judgement is, until that happens, it doesn't happen.
If there is no fear of punishment then people don't care.
I don't even know what Cryptic WOULD do in that case?
Give the player a week off from the game? and risking that he doesn't come back after it?
That is the last thing Cryptic wants to do... Players = MONEY, kicking the player = NO MONEY.
So yes i am pretty much on the *doesn't help anyway* boat.
Worse, typing that ticket keeps ME from participating for that long...
rightclick ignore = fast.
ALSO i do not wish to give that other Player any kind of trouble.
I do not know who he is, maybe my ticket is even in error, maybe he has spend a lot of money on his account, i would hate to be responsible for him to loose access to his stuff, even if it was temporary.
I do NOT want a GM to kick him (for a week) or anything like that.
I just do not wish to PLAY with him AGAIN, therefore IGNORE LIST.
That people drop out of the Ignore list at the end?
that is not cool...
I did not know that, i never had that many users on it, and since it is just a MUTE function for the Chat window i see no reason to keep players muted forever.
There are maybe 5 so far that have earned a permanent spot on there...
You're probably right. Fact is, they've told us they've talked internally about the "AFK" problem but I haven't heard them say how they plan to address it.
Just to clarify this point, we were told by the Devs at one point that the ignore list held a certain number of @ names. I don't remember exactly how many, but more than a few. It's basically a stack. It will hold up to that number of names indefinitely. But if you exceed the size of the stack the first one in "pops out" and the last one in gets added to the bottom of the stack.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
if you ignored them, it was because they were bothering you.. maybe harassing.. or spamming.. or whatever.
not you have this person on your team?
they cant talk to you.. so they are useless..
the system shouldnt allow this to happen..
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
I would prefer a system that kicks an AFK player from the team and thus the reward.
In my early ESTF days I did the best I could but one of those arrogant players just wanted to prove his superiority by sending a tell that my DPS was fail.
But when asking how to fix, i was put on ignore... We need less crybaby topics and more lets help the noob topics.
that wouldn't work, professional AFKers usually have some kind of script running to not get marked as AFK by the System... usually just hammering the NEED button on all loot that drops.
So you need a full blown vote kick mechanic, and that can really be abused...
One person actually responded in a positive way to my query. Everyone else basically exhibited the kind of behavior you seem to expect from these channels.
It works both ways. A lot of people will get in your face if you try to explain what they're doing wrong and ways they can address the issue, and even moreso if you try to explain what may be inefficient with their build even if you go about it in a polite way. I know I'm not the only one who's gotten tired of getting things like "F U" as a reply after trying to explain to someone that Warp Plasma would be better used in delaying a wave of Raptors instead of dumping it on a cube in CSE, or constantly spamming TBR and pushing enemies out of Gravwells or pushing nanite spheres toward the generators instead of away from them in ISE is a bad thing.
I find this STO "demographic" more annoying than the few AFK'rs I've played with in STFs.
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
I just keep liking you every time I read one of your posts.
ACTUALLY
There are lots of devs out there who create these things called dungeons...and in these dungeons it takes EVERY member of the team to complete it.
The solution is creating content that needs an entire team. Really hard I know.
take fleet defense for example, if you have a lt cmdr lvl 20 in youre team,you have more chance to loose,the loot drops are lower,wich means less money,list goes on and on.
same for stf's,wich stf is more likely to complete without failing the optional or the mission itself?
a stf with people in mk 10 common gear who blow up the generator before even killing the cube/sphere?
or the stf with people in maco shielding who know there part,and act like it?
there are normal and elite levels,why are they there?
elite rewards more,so even the newbie's start with the elite stf's,because of the higher rewards.
but they are not ready.
the best solution is:
people who hit vice admiral, need to do normal first, with optional, 5 total, doesnt matter if it is cure/khitomer/conduit, if they have at least 1 time the optional on each, the last 2 are free to pick,why?
this way new players learn the drill,together as newbie's,so they are most succesfull in the elite stf's,and dont annoy the players in elite's with TRIBBLE it up.
also, i have no problems with newbie's,but ask if you dont know,read youreself in to the guide's online.
do some homework on builds.
yesterday i did an stf elite,conduit, i got a player in my team wich asks: hey guys, i dont know how to run thisone, can someone explain?
thats the attitude we all are looking for.
and not the other 2 people,who dont ask,can read the way to do the mission in chat but dont care about it,and kill the generators to fast.
yeah,thats why most people have problems with them.
and about the fleet marks,make it scaling put commanders with other commanders in a qeue,make the enemy's scaling with level,and the fleet mark rewards scaling....
that way va's can get there reward for there work,and the lt cmdrs's can do it on there own level, win -win.
they dont blow up because enemy's are to strong, va's can get there level loot and reward, end of the problems in both example's.
do i hate newbie's?
no
but i hate people who dont ask for help,and ar "playing" stupid.
1. Take friend page, copy the code and change name to ignore list.
2. Write a piece of code that sorts teams so that you cannot be teamed with people on your ignore list.
For example:
If ricorosebud or arnthebard don't want to be teamed up with each other because one or the other or both have ignored the other then they both go happily on thier merry way. That seems like such a simple and effective idea. It is almost too easy...
The character sits idle for ... 20 minutes (arbitrary for an example) ... an I mean no keys or mouse movement - the player has simply walked away from the keyboard or falling asleep, then the game just kicks you out.
For people who make dinner or have continence issues while playing ... too bad.
To me, this is most judicial
No offense taken
Getting a Dev reply is something I can't help you with, though...
~ Bluegeek <-- { Not a Dev }
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
My character Tsin'xing
This idea already exsists one problem is there are BOTS [Prohibited by STO] that activate these AFK players so they can avoid the consequences. Even if one does not have a bot there is a problem with your idea the average STF takes less than 20 mins to complete depending on your team. So a AFK player can TRIBBLE you over while they are otherwise occupied and can farm a reward for doing nothing. There is the problem and you may get teamed back up with the same guy on your next STF. That is the reason for asking for a enhanced Ignore button. TRIBBLE me once shame on you , TRIBBLE me twice shame on me.
Frankly the original post is asthetic of a solution as it gets. No heated discussions or hurt feelings. Just a simple ignore. Then everyone goes on thier merry way.
Are you sure you didn't mean Cure, Infected or Into the Hive? KA is still the only one that's has easily puggable optional even on elite.
And even if you can it's your own ignore list it will just make you impossible to team with, and if you do put everyone but a few people on your own ignore list it will only affect you. weird that people think this is a bad idea.
It's not like it's adding that 1 person to everyone's ignore list.
This is a definite must! I loved this in other games with a LFG system and I find it help keep these people out of parties so it will only harm those who abuse AFK.