I was wondering about that trend too. Jumping over to the 'Neverwinter' page, I noticed that 'Good guy' Drow and Tieflings are available, but no evil ones. They are really playing up the 'good drow' angle by advertising a lot of 'Drizzit' themed items and even a player race. Is this what the Romulan faction is going to be? a Faction of 'Romulan Renegades' like Neverwinter has 'Menzoberanzan Renegades'?
Luckily Romulan renegades are easier to pronounce
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
If the basic idea is to enable us to play the good guys, send them (Cryptic) a PM explaining that this option has been properly covered in the past and present, so there is no need to worry about us! It's all good! And that's the problem!
What I was really about to say, is that the picture on the launcher needs to go, for even when all is said and done, it's very hard to get past it.
In my mind it seems like the four obvious normal factions are Federation, Klingon, Romulan, and Dominion. Maybe a Borg pay-to-play/veteran faction some day long from now.
You know, I would have loved an "Independent" non-faction involving traders, mercs, spies, and the like. But that would probably be a whole separate game.
*goes back to reminiscing about his college Trader Captains and Merchant Princes campaign*
First off, I know that alignment is not locked, because I used to DM. There is a certain importance of thematic consistancy despite this. If every Drow (or Romulan) is a good Drow, or a Renegade or whatever, than they cease to be the exception and become the rule. I don't have a problem with the occasional renegade/whatever, but Cryptic here is devoting an entire faction here to the exception, while ignoring the 'normal' Romulans, the ones that are much more iconic and recognizable.
The expectation when a faction is established is that the core will be developed before the splinter groups are explored. The core of the Romulan empire has been scraped out and this 'Romulan Republic' of 'Menzoberanzan/Romulan Renegades'
Fore the record, I'm happy that you like 4th edition, It's not really pertinent to the discussion at hand, but good for you. I personally think 4th edition is a horrible abomination, for what it's worth
What does alignment have to do with the Romulan Republic? I think you folks have been tagging epohhs too long and the radiation on Molhinar is melting your brains.
Trying to make everything into a sad copy of the federation is like turning Drow into High elves
You mean Drow aren't high elves with dark skin?
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
If a society accepts and embraces evil, is not an individual of that society who performs evil acts therefore good? Because in the end is not good and evil defined by what society accepts? :cool:
No, they are not. Nobody is "born evil." They are taught to be that way. That is the whole point of Drizzt!
The antipathy to individualism on these boards is depressing.
That is not entirely true. Some people's brain chemistry does lead them to violence - children who kill and torture animals at a young age even though they come from loving families. You might wish to call it "insanity" but all evil is probably an insanity of some sort.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
If a society accepts and embraces evil, is not an individual of that society who performs evil acts therefore good? Because in the end is not good and evil defined by what society accepts? :cool:
No.
Murder is murder and slavery is slavery. Just because society on the whole tolerates something doesn't mean it's good. And while I wouldn't condemn an ante-bellum plantation owner for possessing slaves - it's the world that he knew - moral relativism would have allowed the institution to persist in perpetuity, because hey, society says it's okay and who are we to judge?
That slavery was tolerated by society doesn't undo the harm that it did.
Modern society is just as evil when seen from outside
We let people die because they can't AFFORD a doctor in a country that can put people on the moon
We have several entire countrys about to go into a crisis because of The greed of a few Bankers
But the point is the Romulan Star Empire was never evil
But there's one thing the Star Empire always was, from the Praetor to the lowest ranked soldier - proud.
That they're not evil doesn't mean they aren't primarily interested in the might of the Romulan Empire and the supremacy of the Romulan people.
For this Romulan faction to work, it must stick to these ideals. Romulans first, at any cost. All others exist solely to further the supremacy of the Romulans or they will be destroyed.
For this Romulan faction to work, it must stick to these ideals. Romulans first, at any cost. All others exist solely to further the supremacy of the Romulans or they will be destroyed.
He like Elric (who he was ripped off from ) is more evil than his kin
and There is no place for individuals who destroy their own people
those are called sociopaths
As to no one is born evil
Yes im afraid they are
for every Good man there is a bad one
for every Alexander there is a Xerxes
for every Richard there must always be a Saladin
the existance of good requires the existance of evil sad but true
And those Born to be Evil who try to be good end up destroying themselves and others
But back to the Romulans
The Romulans are NOT evil
the REPUBLIC however clearly is
Drizzit is a horrible person. Reading those awful books I could barely stand every long-winded sanctimonius diatribe, made worse by the following chapter inevitably having him mulch dozens of Drow/Orcs/whatever like faceless stormtroopers.
Not sure your examples of 'good' and 'evil' characters in real life is perfect though. There is a reason that Alexander the Great was remembered by the Persians as so: "But afterward, the accursed evil spirit, the wicked one, in order to made men doubtful of this religion, (4) instigated the accursed Alexander, the Roman, who was dwelling in Egypt, so that he came to the country of Iran with severe cruelty and war and devastation; (5) he also slew the ruler of Iran, (6) and destroyed the metropolis and empire, and made them desolate. " Not exactly a glowing review by the folks on the other end, hmm?
The concepts of 'good' and 'evil' are cultural constructs that place things, actions etc into categories of "right,correct,good,etc" and "wrong,incorrect,evil". If soemthign is appropriate within a given culture, it is 'good' if it is not, it may well be consdiered 'evil'. That's all there really is to it of importance.
Romulans (and Drow) have cultures where what is socially acceptable is radically different than what is acceptable in Federation culture (likewise the Klingons). There is some overlap, but they surely have different views on what is 'right' and 'wrong'. The Republic and D'Tan obviously violate these norms and hold to a different standard of right and wrong. They are effectively two different cultures, for all intents and purposes. The Romulan Republic is not, by all indications so far "Romulan" in culture, and as such are a poor cannidate for a Romulan faction.
Instead of a Romulan faction, I think they should do a mercenary faction.
My reasons for this are:
1) The strength, and weakness of the Feds, and the Klingons are that they have premade rules; which leads to to many limitations with creativity (only certain ships, and outfits, etc). By making a new faction they can do what ever they want with it.
2) A mercenary faction would allow them to have playable Romulans, Cardassians, and any other race they want.
3) No limitation on ship designs. Want Romulan, or Cardassian go right ahead. This also leads to the next one.
4) They can reuse minor race c-store ships (Orion, Nausicaan, Vulcan). After all, mercenaries would use what ever is at hand. This could even be a blessing for the Klingon faction, since it might allow more ships to be made for them.
5) Outfits. I see no limitations here. You wouldn't have to be stuck with the uniform limitation that the main factions have right now. Or, the colour limitation that the Klingons have.
6) Wouldn't be that hard to write them into the FE's, STF's, or PVP. In a time of so much war, mercenaries would be all over the place. I know that the Feds wouldn't normally hire mercenaries, but section 31, or corrupt officers might.
I had a larger list, but these forums are horrible. I couldn't log in for days, and thus forgot much if it. Also, sorry if someone already posted this idea. I can't be bothered to read 25 pages.
The Romulan Republic is not, by all indications so far "Romulan" in culture, and as such are a poor cannidate for a Romulan faction.
Lumping all members of a species as beholding to a single culture is stupid and wrong. The Romulans who make up the Romulan Republic aren't any less Romulan because they happen to hold a different set of ideals. That's like saying Japanese people are somehow less human because their views on sex and work ethic are different from most of the rest of the world.
How people choose to play their characters will not have much impact on how they are portrayed in the IP. Plus the IP has always been full of exceptions:
Spock, the only Vulcan in Starfleet - who is also half-human.
Worf, the only Klingon in Starfleet - who was raised by humans.
Data, the only Android in Starfleet.
Odo, the only "good: Changeling.
Bashir, the Augmented human.
Garak, the Cardassian spy working for Starfleet.
Nog, the only Ferengi in Starfleet.
7 of 9, the only Liberated Borg in Starfleet.
Paris, the criminal pilot.
It has always been the exceptions which have made Star Trek interesting rather then the norm.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Lumping all members of a species as beholding to a single culture is stupid and wrong. The Romulans who make up the Romulan Republic aren't any less Romulan because they happen to hold a different set of ideals. That's like saying Japanese people are somehow less human because their views on sex and work ethic are different from most of the rest of the world.
Have you ever heard of 'monoculturalism'? The Romulans have always been a insular, xeophobic entity resistant to outside change or influence. The RSE is a mono-cultural entity. They could not be moreso unless they were the Borg or Dominion.
Yes, there have been dissidents from time to time, but the RSE, being a controlling monocultural entity, mixes with that sort of thing like oil and water. Hence, Romulans with different culture are not 'Romulan' in culture, only in species.
How people choose to play their characters will not have much impact on how they are portrayed in the IP. Plus the IP has always been full of exceptions:
Spock, the only Vulcan in Starfleet - who is also half-human.
Worf, the only Klingon in Starfleet - who was raised by humans.
Data, the only Android in Starfleet.
Odo, the only "good: Changeling.
Bashir, the Augmented human.
Garak, the Cardassian spy working for Starfleet.
Nog, the only Ferengi in Starfleet.
7 of 9, the only Liberated Borg in Starfleet.
Paris, the criminal pilot.
It has always been the exceptions which have made Star Trek interesting rather then the norm.
This is the sort of thing that we have playable species unlocks, and unique BOFFS for. By making the renegade Romulans the default and only choice available however, they are no longer 'exceptions'. Instead of players being able to have 'exceptional' BoFFs or Captains to be interesting, we have renegades with no option to be anything but, and without even the benefit of the iconic Romulan culture, demeanor, or dress aesthetics to draw upon, that made them desireable in the first place. There isn't a RSE any mroe to make the rebel Romulans unique, should someone chose to pursue that avenue.
Comments
Luckily Romulan renegades are easier to pronounce
thats why 4th edition is so unsuccessful
They won't allow proper Evil
If the basic idea is to enable us to play the good guys, send them (Cryptic) a PM explaining that this option has been properly covered in the past and present, so there is no need to worry about us! It's all good! And that's the problem!
What I was really about to say, is that the picture on the launcher needs to go, for even when all is said and done, it's very hard to get past it.
---
The Empire stands for Order, Reason, Progress and Efficiency.
*goes back to reminiscing about his college Trader Captains and Merchant Princes campaign*
Biased Borrowed Federation Universal Translator. :P
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The expectation when a faction is established is that the core will be developed before the splinter groups are explored. The core of the Romulan empire has been scraped out and this 'Romulan Republic' of 'Menzoberanzan/Romulan Renegades'
Fore the record, I'm happy that you like 4th edition, It's not really pertinent to the discussion at hand, but good for you. I personally think 4th edition is a horrible abomination, for what it's worth
Always has been always will be
But Drow are basically inherently "naughty" and Born to serve a Spider Goddess.
I thought we were asking for the kind of Romulan for....medical purposes
I was wondering why they were not coming out on 4/20
No, they are not. Nobody is "born evil." They are taught to be that way. That is the whole point of Drizzt!
The antipathy to individualism on these boards is depressing.
and There is no place for individuals who destroy their own people
those are called sociopaths
As to no one is born evil
Yes im afraid they are
for every Good man there is a bad one
for every Alexander there is a Xerxes
for every Richard there must always be a Saladin
the existance of good requires the existance of evil sad but true
And those Born to be Evil who try to be good end up destroying themselves and others
But back to the Romulans
The Romulans are NOT evil
the REPUBLIC however clearly is
For example in Victorian times it was considered socially acceptable to beat your wife and take opium
These days its not
In ancient Rome slavery was the norm
Nowadays its frowned on
But a Roman who went round cursing slavery would be considered insane
No.
Murder is murder and slavery is slavery. Just because society on the whole tolerates something doesn't mean it's good. And while I wouldn't condemn an ante-bellum plantation owner for possessing slaves - it's the world that he knew - moral relativism would have allowed the institution to persist in perpetuity, because hey, society says it's okay and who are we to judge?
That slavery was tolerated by society doesn't undo the harm that it did.
We let people die because they can't AFFORD a doctor in a country that can put people on the moon
We have several entire countrys about to go into a crisis because of The greed of a few Bankers
But the point is the Romulan Star Empire was never evil
That they're not evil doesn't mean they aren't primarily interested in the might of the Romulan Empire and the supremacy of the Romulan people.
For this Romulan faction to work, it must stick to these ideals. Romulans first, at any cost. All others exist solely to further the supremacy of the Romulans or they will be destroyed.
for The Star Empire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
system Lord Baal is dead
Any talk of "equality" must be ruthlessly crushed
I still find it confusing that the Klingon empire appointed a GORN as ambassador
Not sure your examples of 'good' and 'evil' characters in real life is perfect though. There is a reason that Alexander the Great was remembered by the Persians as so: "But afterward, the accursed evil spirit, the wicked one, in order to made men doubtful of this religion, (4) instigated the accursed Alexander, the Roman, who was dwelling in Egypt, so that he came to the country of Iran with severe cruelty and war and devastation; (5) he also slew the ruler of Iran, (6) and destroyed the metropolis and empire, and made them desolate. " Not exactly a glowing review by the folks on the other end, hmm?
The concepts of 'good' and 'evil' are cultural constructs that place things, actions etc into categories of "right,correct,good,etc" and "wrong,incorrect,evil". If soemthign is appropriate within a given culture, it is 'good' if it is not, it may well be consdiered 'evil'. That's all there really is to it of importance.
Romulans (and Drow) have cultures where what is socially acceptable is radically different than what is acceptable in Federation culture (likewise the Klingons). There is some overlap, but they surely have different views on what is 'right' and 'wrong'. The Republic and D'Tan obviously violate these norms and hold to a different standard of right and wrong. They are effectively two different cultures, for all intents and purposes. The Romulan Republic is not, by all indications so far "Romulan" in culture, and as such are a poor cannidate for a Romulan faction.
Cryptic seems to like to box themselves in with restrictions/limitations.
Here is a post of mine from a while back.
Lumping all members of a species as beholding to a single culture is stupid and wrong. The Romulans who make up the Romulan Republic aren't any less Romulan because they happen to hold a different set of ideals. That's like saying Japanese people are somehow less human because their views on sex and work ethic are different from most of the rest of the world.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Spock, the only Vulcan in Starfleet - who is also half-human.
Worf, the only Klingon in Starfleet - who was raised by humans.
Data, the only Android in Starfleet.
Odo, the only "good: Changeling.
Bashir, the Augmented human.
Garak, the Cardassian spy working for Starfleet.
Nog, the only Ferengi in Starfleet.
7 of 9, the only Liberated Borg in Starfleet.
Paris, the criminal pilot.
It has always been the exceptions which have made Star Trek interesting rather then the norm.
Drizzt Do'Urden is probably who you were talking about?
Yes, there have been dissidents from time to time, but the RSE, being a controlling monocultural entity, mixes with that sort of thing like oil and water. Hence, Romulans with different culture are not 'Romulan' in culture, only in species.
This is the sort of thing that we have playable species unlocks, and unique BOFFS for. By making the renegade Romulans the default and only choice available however, they are no longer 'exceptions'. Instead of players being able to have 'exceptional' BoFFs or Captains to be interesting, we have renegades with no option to be anything but, and without even the benefit of the iconic Romulan culture, demeanor, or dress aesthetics to draw upon, that made them desireable in the first place. There isn't a RSE any mroe to make the rebel Romulans unique, should someone chose to pursue that avenue.
Ah yes, that is who I meant. The irritating, hypocritical Dark Elf, not the Reman.
Pride goes before a fall. Or in STO's case, a Supernova. Hah! I made a funny! At the expense of the long ago destroyed Romulan homeworld! I'm clever.