Have you ever heard of 'monoculturalism'? The Romulans have always been a insular, xeophobic entity resistant to outside change or influence. The RSE is a mono-cultural entity. They could not be moreso unless they were the Borg or Dominion.
Yes, there have been dissidents from time to time, but the RSE, being a controlling monocultural entity, mixes with that sort of thing like oil and water. Hence, Romulans with different culture are not 'Romulan' in culture, only in species.
The RSE isn't what's being released in May though. The RSE has been supernova'd, splintered, assimilated, iconianed, and slowly decayed by Epohh bunny cuteness.
Have you ever heard of 'monoculturalism'? The Romulans have always been a insular, xeophobic entity resistant to outside change or influence. The RSE is a mono-cultural entity. They could not be moreso unless they were the Borg or Dominion.
Yes, there have been dissidents from time to time, but the RSE, being a controlling monocultural entity, mixes with that sort of thing like oil and water. Hence, Romulans with different culture are not 'Romulan' in culture, only in species.
"I regret that we meet in this way. You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend." -Romulan Commander to Kirk, Balance of Terror
--
" Counselor Deanna Troi: [as Major Rakal] We ensure the loyalty of the people. Do you believe the Empire would be better off without our protection?
Commander Toreth: Protection? From what? How was the Empire threatened by the words of an old man? A devoted citizen who merely tried to speak his mind? How did the Tal Shiar protect the Empire by dragging him, my father, out of his home in the middle of the night?
Counselor Deanna Troi: [as Major Rakal] Clearly your father was a traitor.
Commander Toreth: No. He was just an idealistic old man. I never saw him again."
-Face of the Enemy
--
"Admiral Jarok: There comes a time in a man's life that you cannot know. When he looks down at the first smile of his baby girl and realizes, he must change the world for her - for all children. It is for her that I am here. Not to destroy the Romulan Empire, but to save it. For months, I tried desperately to persuade the High Command that another war would destroy the Empire. They got tired of my arguments. Finally, I was censured, sent off to command some distant sector. *This* was my only recourse. I... will never see my child smile again. She will grow up believing that her father is a traitor. But she will grow up - if you act, Picard. If we stop this war before it begins."
-The Defector
The RSE isn't what's being released in May though. The RSE has been supernova'd, splintered, assimilated, iconianed, and slowly decayed by Epohh bunny cuteness.
Long live the REPUBLIC!
hence my complaints. We should havve the RSE, not the RR.
"I regret that we meet in this way. You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend." -Romulan Commander to Kirk, Balance of Terror
--
" Counselor Deanna Troi: [as Major Rakal] We ensure the loyalty of the people. Do you believe the Empire would be better off without our protection?
Commander Toreth: Protection? From what? How was the Empire threatened by the words of an old man? A devoted citizen who merely tried to speak his mind? How did the Tal Shiar protect the Empire by dragging him, my father, out of his home in the middle of the night?
Counselor Deanna Troi: [as Major Rakal] Clearly your father was a traitor.
Commander Toreth: No. He was just an idealistic old man. I never saw him again."
-Face of the Enemy
yes, we are all well aware by now about your fixation on the 'honerable' Romulans of TOS, but they changed into something far more devious a long time ago.
As for the second instance, now you understand perhaps how the Romulans inforce their monoculture? The RSE is an empire with a culture of fear, ambition, arrogance, cutthroat politics etc. It has never really been as idealistic a place to live as the Federation because of this, but this has nontheless served to add flavor to the faction. Take that away, and you take away one of the things that set the Romulans outside of the other species and empries in ST.
As for the defector. Did you notice that his goal was not to bring down the RSE, that he did not hate the RSE, he loved it and did not want to see it start a war that would destroy it. That' all.
A few points about the honorable Romulans mentioned so far.
NotSarek - He saw Kirk as a worthy adversary and reflection of himself. As Kirk did him. He however followed his duty to the letter and did exactly what his superiors asked of him, even if it meant triggering a war he didn't want to see.
Toreth - While she clearly despised the Tal'Shiar, she was still a loyal, upstanding Romulan and didn't hesitate to have her XO gunned down the moment he displayed treasonous behaviour.
Jarok - As was said all he wanted was to avoid a war, having many similar traits to NotSarek. He ultimately commited suicide because he couldn't bear to be away from his family and home, obviously he thought the Star Empire was a worthy home worth protecting.
I think Unification has had a much larger impact on the Romulan people than you're giving it credit for. But we'll find out for sure in May.
I'm sure it had a big impact. but at its core, it was a non-mainstream underground movement that idolized a foreign culture and philospophy. A small portion of the populace (just look at how few troops the transports were carrying for the invasion for a figure on their numbers) I don't think they died out, and they may have even grown in number. However, their existance does not exlude the much larger population of the RSE who were not reunificationists, who by all reason should have been the focus of a faction, not a dissident movement.
Have you ever heard of 'monoculturalism'? The Romulans have always been a insular, xeophobic entity resistant to outside change or influence. The RSE is a mono-cultural entity. They could not be moreso unless they were the Borg or Dominion.
Doesn't the existence of a Reunificationist movement deny that conclusion?
A few points about the honorable Romulans mentioned so far.
NotSarek - He saw Kirk as a worthy adversary and reflection of himself. As Kirk did him. He however followed his duty to the letter and did exactly what his superiors asked of him, even if it meant triggering a war he didn't want to see.
The point was that he acknowledged that he and Kirk could've been friends. That's not even remotely xenophobic. Ergo, Romulans have not always and forever been so.
Toreth - While she clearly despised the Tal'Shiar, she was still a loyal, upstanding Romulan and didn't hesitate to have her XO gunned down the moment he displayed treasonous behaviour.
Outside of her despising the Tal Shiar, it's obvious from her story about her father that she's not exactly happy with the state of things either, and also that dissent and repression is not uncommon. She's the sort of character that might not join a revolution at the onset, but it's quite possible she would later.
Jarok - As was said all he wanted was to avoid a war, having many similar traits to NotSarek. He ultimately commited suicide because he couldn't bear to be away from his family and home, obviously he thought the Star Empire was a worthy home worth protecting.
He also no longer supported the regime. It wasn't just "I want to avoid war" it was "I will betray the regime because they are wrong and this is the only way I can affect things." He's another one that would likely join a revolution.
See, you guys think "Revolutionary" means "I hate being a Romulan." It does not, anymore than overthrowing the Bourbon monarchy meant people hated being French. People can love their home and still see the need for change. Oftentimes, maybe all the time, love for home and family is what spurs revolution, instead of just expatriation.
Doesn't the existence of a Reunificationist movement deny that conclusion?
See how the reunificationists were gettign cracked down on? That's a classic sort of thing an Empire that idolizes Monoculuralism would do. For real life examples, see what happened in Japan after it was decided there was too much foreign influence. Purges, restriction of foreigners, etc. All of this has real-life precedents, even today.
did not most of that movement get killed by sela and her men?
I don't think it was outright stated, but it was definately implied. Sela hated Vulcans, if her conversation with Spock is anything to go on. People need to keep in mind that the reunificationists were protected and sponsored by the state in secret as part of the plot by Sela, Pardek, and the Proconsul. Without their support, and with the tal'Shiar and Romulan governemnt crackign down in them, it was likely they were in for a rough time, esp considering their old refuges, the networks of caves, were well-known to Sela and Pardek.
did not most of that movement get killed by sela and her men?
Evidently not nearly enough of them. Not enough to make Spock give up, for certain, and if we allow STO's soft canon, then we know D'tan survived too, and that between the Romulans disillusioned by the loss of their homeworld and the remaining Reunificationists undoubtedly uniting under D'tan, there are plenty enough Romulans of a mindset to rebuild under a new banner.
What I don't get is why people think changed to a Republic would preclude Romulans being Romulan. I don't see how they can't be proud - they are forging a new identity to be proud of and about from the remnants of an old and broken empire. Further, it's obvious they aren't simply allowing themselves to fold under the Federation's banner. They are their own faction, accepting of the other factions' aid and willing to talk peace to cement their status, but beholden to neither. Nor does any of this rule out the usual behind-the-scenes political subterfuge and rivalry. Throughout history, it hasn't mattered if you're a democracy or an empire, someone is always out to stab someone else in the back.
A Romulan can still be a Romulan is what I'm saying. The only thing they begin to sacrifice from their previous state is the xenophobia, which I'm willing to bet is far from entirely gone even now.
Its almost biologically impossible for Drow to be GOOD
thats why 4th edition is so unsuccessful
They won't allow proper Evil
I think 4rth failed to connect with players for another reason. Its devoid of lore, the world background, the NPCs, the places etc. They made a tabletop game they could grow with (ie. simplify the million and one individual one use powers...) but failed to deliver on the things players really wanted, worlds to play in. All rules, no fluffy lore, that's what killed 4rth. They even stayed away from an OGL so third party books couldn't save them lol.
Welcome to MMOs, players arent consistent and come from all areas.
And yes, they will became the rule ... like Jedi became the rule in SW:G when they "loosen" the requirements and people will want to be special but its irrelevant because 90% of the time they are not even roleplaying, alignment in a MMO is nothing more that a stat that in D&D case just handles how spells interact with you, "Protection from Good" is not going to do a damn thing with your NE thiefling thief.
Also give me a break, you are trying to apply the rules of a absolute moralism (D&D) over a universe that never had it (Star Trek), you cannot put in the same bag Drow and Romulans because they arent the same.
And who the hell are you to dictate the rules?
Serious ... who the hell are you?
You are a player on a system that have to deal with hundred of thousand of characters, the system is not going to enforce a "consistence" because you want it because it cannot, the system have to be fair and if everyone decided well their Drow is CE you cannot just go shouting "STOP IT! STOP IT! STOP IT!" because YOU, the minority dont want then.
Would you like if I decide I dont like your character name or ship name or registry and tell you to change it?
I seen a lot in Normandy SR-2 flying around along with Enterprize and even seen a character named KDF General "something" ... I could go on about the "hum-ans" Aliens on the KDF and lets just say I could go on ...
But who the hell am I?
This is the line my friend, I cannot and will not enforce my will on others when I am playing in their house ... this is Cryptic house and they have hundred of players you cannot honestly think they will enforce every single character to be reviewed before its allowed in, let alone monitor thousand of players in real time and even if they did what would they do?
Delete the offending characters?
Ban them?
You want to keep the KDF company with their wailing about how Cryptic lied and how no content, no new ships and everything we read ever time we see a FE, every time we see a new Fed ship.
You want WHAT? A dead end faction without access to STFs or you think this is now Romulans:Online when the Glorious Romulan Star Empire Conquers the Federation.
NOT
GOING
TO
HAPPEN
They are NOT going to abandon the Federation, if they made the mistake they made the Klingons and separated them from the Federation to the point no JOIN group actions can be done without either the KDF crying foul as usual or looking utter wrong then I am going to call them idiots.
We need all 3 factions to have the same access to End game (and that means STFs) and we need then to be in a position were FUTURE content can be added without one feeling its being left behind with refurnished missions.
Or we get the KDF as it is ... 18%, bitter and complaining about anything.
The reason I cannot understand your position is because its either this or a WORST KDF and there would be no future with the "evil Romulan Star Empire", far less future that with the KDF as it is right now ... only a dozen or so missions and because it would not grow and it would just be there,just another Cryptic system that was put in and then abandoned.
So its either this or death ... I am very aware of this being the two options on the table.
I never played 4th, I stopped about when 3".5" come out.
You sir are one of the wisest people I have seen on these forums.
However, their existance does not exlude the much larger population of the RSE
Oh those people? They were excluded by the supernova. So many of them were excluded by the supernova that some miner guy went bonkers and travelled back in time to destroy Vulcan.
Welcome to MMOs, players arent consistent and come from all areas.
And yes, they will became the rule ... like Jedi became the rule in SW:G when they "loosen" the requirements and people will want to be special but its irrelevant because 90% of the time they are not even roleplaying, alignment in a MMO is nothing more that a stat that in D&D case just handles how spells interact with you, "Protection from Good" is not going to do a damn thing with your NE thiefling thief.
Also give me a break, you are trying to apply the rules of a absolute moralism (D&D) over a universe that never had it (Star Trek), you cannot put in the same bag Drow and Romulans because they arent the same.
The difference is that you have options in STO, options to choose to be exceptional, or not. We are getting a splinter faction to the exclusion of the main faction. That is different.
Accusing me of absolute moralism? Have you even been reading my posts? I don't believe in any such thing.
And who the hell are you to dictate the rules?
Serious ... who the hell are you?
You are a player on a system that have to deal with hundred of thousand of characters, the system is not going to enforce a "consistence" because you want it because it cannot, the system have to be fair and if everyone decided well their Drow is CE you cannot just go shouting "STOP IT! STOP IT! STOP IT!" because YOU, the minority dont want then.
Would you like if I decide I dont like your character name or ship name or registry and tell you to change it?
I seen a lot in Normandy SR-2 flying around along with Enterprize and even seen a character named KDF General "something" ... I could go on about the "hum-ans" Aliens on the KDF and lets just say I could go on ...
But who the hell am I?
This is the line my friend, I cannot and will not enforce my will on others when I am playing in their house ... this is Cryptic house and they have hundred of players you cannot honestly think they will enforce every single character to be reviewed before its allowed in, let alone monitor thousand of players in real time and even if they did what would they do?
Delete the offending characters?
Ban them?
Again, completely taking everythign I say out of context to further your agenda. It's not as simple as that. heck, it isn't even remotely like that. I don't have a problem with peopel having their 'exceptional' characters-heck, I have even suggested Playable species unlocks, zen unlocked bridge offciers, etc to faucilitate this. it would be agreat way for people who want to RP a renegade Romulan or a Reunificationist or whatever. I have a problem with Cryptic taking away our ability to play as *normal* Romulans, like the captains and commanders so often showcased in the show.
I am not dictating any rules to anyone, despite whatever words you try to cram into my mouth. This is all my opinion, which I am entitled to voice.
You want to keep the KDF company with their wailing about how Cryptic lied and how no content, no new ships and everything we read ever time we see a FE, every time we see a new Fed ship.
You want WHAT? A dead end faction without access to STFs or you think this is now Romulans:Online when the Glorious Romulan Star Empire Conquers the Federation.
NOT
GOING
TO
HAPPEN
They are NOT going to abandon the Federation, if they made the mistake they made the Klingons and separated them from the Federation to the point no JOIN group actions can be done without either the KDF crying foul as usual or looking utter wrong then I am going to call them idiots.
We need all 3 factions to have the same access to End game (and that means STFs) and we need then to be in a position were FUTURE content can be added without one feeling its being left behind with refurnished missions.
Or we get the KDF as it is ... 18%, bitter and complaining about anything.
The reason I cannot understand your position is because its either this or a WORST KDF and there would be no future with the "evil Romulan Star Empire", far less future that with the KDF as it is right now ... only a dozen or so missions and because it would not grow and it would just be there,just another Cryptic system that was put in and then abandoned.
So its either this or death ... I am very aware of this being the two options on the table.
All of this is wild conjecture and baseless accusations against my positions.
You need to calm down and take a chill pill, in my opinion.
See how the reunificationists were gettign cracked down on? That's a classic sort of thing an Empire that idolizes Monoculuralism would do. For real life examples, see what happened in Japan after it was decided there was too much foreign influence. Purges, restriction of foreigners, etc. All of this has real-life precedents, even today.
Yeah, all those secretive police states are doing so well today. The Soviet Union, East Germany, Yugoslavia... for that matter nothing bad happened to Czar Nicholas II because he had the Ohkrana.
Oh, and guess what the secretive and isolationist Japanese did when they realized that if they didn't modernize they were going to become another China? They embraced the West. They took what they considered the best of Western civilization and utilized it. But you'd probably say they were no longer Japanese because they eliminated the samurai caste during the Meiji Restoration.
I seen many players being angry that they are not getting their Romulan Star Empire like in TNG or DS9 but fact is you would never get your Romulan Star Empire in STO because Hobus happened, the Romulans are in the exact same position as the Klingons were when Praxis exploded but at least the Klingons had the good sense of recognizing they needed help and werent afraid to ask for it ... sure you had people with different thoughts about it but in the end the old TOS Klingon Empire was gone because of Praxis.
It's worth pointing out here that cooperation between the Klingons and the Federation after Praxis was opposed or supported by various people on both sides because... WAIT FOR IT... neither side is a hive mind where everybody has the exact same beliefs and opinions.
That was one of the main story points of Star Trek VI.
ok.. Star Trek not D&D.. if ya'll gonna talk never winter.. take it to the never winter forums PLEASE! *sigh*
As far as "ggod Guys" faction..in Trek.. there isn't one.
What there is how ever is a sort of "Cultural chavanism" All of the major "empires" are multiracial/multi cultural to a point.. The UFP obviously so.. The Klingons have become more so.. though perhapes they always were to a certain extent. The Romulans, incluse Remans, and several minor client races... and the list goes on.
But each and every one of them belives "they" are the best, most deserving of domination, etc..
Well, so much for that.
I didn't think the Cryptic was going to bang out the Romulans as a playable faction quite so soon. I would have prefered a more machavellian Romulan faction, but then there is no reason that the players themselves cant be Romulnas in the classic sense. It's all up to them.
A Romulan faction from day one would have been nice, but since I've invested 3 years in my Fed characters it's just too little too late. I want Fed content and what happened to the 2 promised Featured Episodes in 2012? :mad: In the back of my mind I think it's just another way to get a huge instant cash injection for Cryptic.
I have always wanted to play a Romulan, but not necessarily in a Romulan faction. That being said, I am now eyeing my Federation character as a miner for my future Romulan.
Good and Evil are societal labels whose purpose is to differentiate between varying degrees of socially acceptable behavour and non-socially acceptable behaviour within the context of a society. That's all.
As to the rest of your tirade here, all I have been saying is that the RSE is the appropriate and obvious choice for a faction, while these splinter groups such as D'Tan and the RR are not. While those groups may be 'good' by our standards (and certainly from their POV) the RSE is an 'evil' faction, even if they themselves do not see themselves as such.
As far as Romulans (and Drow) are concerned, 'evil' is the expected standard, and 'good' the exception. An 'evil' faction of Romulans is thus the expected faction, not these 'good' Romulan Republic fellows. 'Good'/Renegade/Whatever Romulans are not an appropriate match for a species which has for so long been defined as 'evil'. There, I hope that clears up this pedantic alignment side-argument you seem to have fixed on, because it really is getting tiring and I'm not sure what on earth your point is supposed to be.
Your normal Romulan is like playing a Borg, can be done? yes but explain how the hell are you getting then on the Omega Force?
They can make a RSE with you going around doing ... doing .... doing ...
What?
No, serious ... WHAT? If you actually got a RSE guess what? Sela is still gone after "Cutting the Cord" so it ends? and you be doing what? helping blow up Vulcan because "a eye for a eye, a world for a world" ? Were the heck that makes sense?
You want a dead faction because as I said they are not going to drop the Federation and all content from this point will be Romulan, if want to be in a position were Cryptic choices are Fed/KDF missions orRSE missions guess whats going to be picked?
You want death, I dont ... I want a Romulan faction that in no way excludes me for acting (as much Cryptic allows) as a more "classic" Romulan thinking the old Romulan methods are more effective, after all what are the real differences of the RSE and this RR in organization?
I see same ranks, I see same basic political model (D'tan is Proconsul) so what are exactly the differences?
A less ... chaotic Romulan faction is required for players, they had to pick SOMETHING.
Either way your "normal" Romulan is not really prevented to exist, its just his opportunities lie on a more stable Romulan faction, not the mess that come after Sela's disappearance.
There are already borg players doing STFs, in case you haven't noticed. They are not part of a Borg faction. I have already suggested zen store unlocks for Romulan players who want to play 'good' guys, since they are the exception rather than the rule. As for what RSE players would be doing? Fighting the KDF, FEDs, like they already do in the storyline, rebuilding their empire, rescuing Sela from the Undine, there's a lot for them to do, and a lot of it is stuff that the RR will have to deal with to, in their own manner, but it was not necessary for the RSE to become the RR and lose all of its special flavor in order to do them.
(I seen many players being angry that they are not getting their Romulan Star Empire like in TNG or DS9 but fact is you would never get your Romulan Star Empire in STO because Hobus happened, the Romulans are in the exact same position as the Klingons were when Praxis exploded but at least the Klingons had the good sense of recognizing they needed help and werent afraid to ask for it ... sure you had people with different thoughts about it but in the end the old TOS Klingon Empire was gone because of Praxis.
The Romulans had Hobus.
I am angry at people wanting a worst KDF because ultimate that is were the "old" RSE leads ... you want a type of content that excludes further expansion leading to a dead faction, at least the KDF is making steps into cross-fraction despite the angry cries of some KDF players that think Cryptic can do two independent factions storylines after 3 years of them proving they CANT, you are asking for a third.
I want a healthy Romulan faction, I can work with D'tan really ... its not even that hard since heck I been subjected to worst on the KDF, others want a "one update" faction that is what the old Romulan Star Empire ... it makes then no different of Romulan players that were willing to throw away a Romulan Faction for a Lock box D'Deridex so they could play their fake Alien Romulans on the KDF/Fed on one.
I want a faction with a future, if it means a Romulan Republic so be it ... I dont want yet another Cryptic system that after a while they grow tired of it and move to a new one, the Old Romulan Star Empire is gone, been that way for quite a while and offer no future, cannot offer a future because in STO the future is Iconians and end game is STFs and I am not going to play a faction when after playing the story missions there is nothing to do, there is no end game outside grinding for a Tholian Reputation that is likely to be offered to Fed and KDF as well
I could see where you were coming from, perhaps. If the RSE wasn't alive and kicking and up to their old shennanegins even with Hobus. Even the old Klingon Empire rebounded with enough time, just look at STO. They didn't have to give up their warrior culture with its honor, glory, duty fixation, its duels etc. The Romulan faction could have been the story of them rebounding. It still will be, just as the RR isntead of the RSE-the important part here is that nothing necessitated them from beign made into the RR. They could have doen all of this as the RSE. The RSE had just as much potential to rebound as the RR, it is just that Crypric chose not to.
As for end content? There is pleanty of stuff they could do, and just because they could be the RSE does not mean they cannot participate in STFs and other end game content. The Iconians (more than any other faction), Borg, Undine, and Tholians are everyone's problem. If you watched DS9, you might have noticed the Romulans joined the war against the Dominion. They didn't need to become Freedom fighters to do it either. There are pleanty of ways the RSE could have been implemented with meaningful content.
i dont need a new Faction... i need new gameplay!
I have 10 active lvl 50 Characters, 6 FED, 4 KDF... i've seen it all, i've done it all...
and in the end you go with what works best for you... by now all my chars tend to use the same style of Ship (Escorts! only DPS counts anymore), the same 3 type of ground Kits... for the same 3 Classes... again and again... i avoid SCI ships, i moved away from Cruisers more and more Escorts find their way into my Characters. Carriers are boring, Sci ships don't feel like they are doing anything to me... Cruisers are flying stones that no one will shoot at...
I really hope that this Romulan Faction will come with more than just copy and paste-Skilltree / Kit / BOff abilities / the default 3 Character Classes from the FEDs + KDF.
The KDF at least had the Bird of Prey and Carriers which set the faction apart just enough to not be a 100% copy cat of the Feds. Which was watered down a bit over the 3 years...
What will the Romulans bring to the table?
more cloaking device? KDF has that already to perfection...
More cloaking device working as intended boff popups? *facepalm*
The Join FED / KDF later thing is not from the table yet. So i really hope that after the 5 or maybe 10 Romulan Story missions that we may get, i will not just be flying a Warbird with a green UI for the FED / KDF...
then it would be just another LockBox ship at Endgame, and that would be major FAIL SAUCE.
Wanted Romulans from day 1 and delighted they are there. There is also meant to be sizeable amounts of content for everyone to play so existing factions are not being ignored
My philosophy is get all the factions in as soon as possible, and then build them up together. it makes more sense than building them up one at a time, and having to constantly rework things every time.
if it was my choice id have cardassians come in next update due late 2013.
Comments
Long live the REPUBLIC!
"I regret that we meet in this way. You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend." -Romulan Commander to Kirk, Balance of Terror
--
" Counselor Deanna Troi: [as Major Rakal] We ensure the loyalty of the people. Do you believe the Empire would be better off without our protection?
Commander Toreth: Protection? From what? How was the Empire threatened by the words of an old man? A devoted citizen who merely tried to speak his mind? How did the Tal Shiar protect the Empire by dragging him, my father, out of his home in the middle of the night?
Counselor Deanna Troi: [as Major Rakal] Clearly your father was a traitor.
Commander Toreth: No. He was just an idealistic old man. I never saw him again."
-Face of the Enemy
--
"Admiral Jarok: There comes a time in a man's life that you cannot know. When he looks down at the first smile of his baby girl and realizes, he must change the world for her - for all children. It is for her that I am here. Not to destroy the Romulan Empire, but to save it. For months, I tried desperately to persuade the High Command that another war would destroy the Empire. They got tired of my arguments. Finally, I was censured, sent off to command some distant sector. *This* was my only recourse. I... will never see my child smile again. She will grow up believing that her father is a traitor. But she will grow up - if you act, Picard. If we stop this war before it begins."
-The Defector
hence my complaints. We should havve the RSE, not the RR.
yes, we are all well aware by now about your fixation on the 'honerable' Romulans of TOS, but they changed into something far more devious a long time ago.
As for the second instance, now you understand perhaps how the Romulans inforce their monoculture? The RSE is an empire with a culture of fear, ambition, arrogance, cutthroat politics etc. It has never really been as idealistic a place to live as the Federation because of this, but this has nontheless served to add flavor to the faction. Take that away, and you take away one of the things that set the Romulans outside of the other species and empries in ST.
As for the defector. Did you notice that his goal was not to bring down the RSE, that he did not hate the RSE, he loved it and did not want to see it start a war that would destroy it. That' all.
NotSarek - He saw Kirk as a worthy adversary and reflection of himself. As Kirk did him. He however followed his duty to the letter and did exactly what his superiors asked of him, even if it meant triggering a war he didn't want to see.
Toreth - While she clearly despised the Tal'Shiar, she was still a loyal, upstanding Romulan and didn't hesitate to have her XO gunned down the moment he displayed treasonous behaviour.
Jarok - As was said all he wanted was to avoid a war, having many similar traits to NotSarek. He ultimately commited suicide because he couldn't bear to be away from his family and home, obviously he thought the Star Empire was a worthy home worth protecting.
Doesn't the existence of a Reunificationist movement deny that conclusion?
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
system Lord Baal is dead
about it, because i thought it was never going to happen.
the devs always love saying "no", "no its impossible", "no its not profitable"
thanks for proving me wrong. cant wait for it...
now just get them to work on ground combat to compete with
some of these other fps mmo games like swtor.
but thats just wishful thinking.
The point was that he acknowledged that he and Kirk could've been friends. That's not even remotely xenophobic. Ergo, Romulans have not always and forever been so.
Outside of her despising the Tal Shiar, it's obvious from her story about her father that she's not exactly happy with the state of things either, and also that dissent and repression is not uncommon. She's the sort of character that might not join a revolution at the onset, but it's quite possible she would later.
He also no longer supported the regime. It wasn't just "I want to avoid war" it was "I will betray the regime because they are wrong and this is the only way I can affect things." He's another one that would likely join a revolution.
See, you guys think "Revolutionary" means "I hate being a Romulan." It does not, anymore than overthrowing the Bourbon monarchy meant people hated being French. People can love their home and still see the need for change. Oftentimes, maybe all the time, love for home and family is what spurs revolution, instead of just expatriation.
See how the reunificationists were gettign cracked down on? That's a classic sort of thing an Empire that idolizes Monoculuralism would do. For real life examples, see what happened in Japan after it was decided there was too much foreign influence. Purges, restriction of foreigners, etc. All of this has real-life precedents, even today.
I don't think it was outright stated, but it was definately implied. Sela hated Vulcans, if her conversation with Spock is anything to go on. People need to keep in mind that the reunificationists were protected and sponsored by the state in secret as part of the plot by Sela, Pardek, and the Proconsul. Without their support, and with the tal'Shiar and Romulan governemnt crackign down in them, it was likely they were in for a rough time, esp considering their old refuges, the networks of caves, were well-known to Sela and Pardek.
Evidently not nearly enough of them. Not enough to make Spock give up, for certain, and if we allow STO's soft canon, then we know D'tan survived too, and that between the Romulans disillusioned by the loss of their homeworld and the remaining Reunificationists undoubtedly uniting under D'tan, there are plenty enough Romulans of a mindset to rebuild under a new banner.
What I don't get is why people think changed to a Republic would preclude Romulans being Romulan. I don't see how they can't be proud - they are forging a new identity to be proud of and about from the remnants of an old and broken empire. Further, it's obvious they aren't simply allowing themselves to fold under the Federation's banner. They are their own faction, accepting of the other factions' aid and willing to talk peace to cement their status, but beholden to neither. Nor does any of this rule out the usual behind-the-scenes political subterfuge and rivalry. Throughout history, it hasn't mattered if you're a democracy or an empire, someone is always out to stab someone else in the back.
A Romulan can still be a Romulan is what I'm saying. The only thing they begin to sacrifice from their previous state is the xenophobia, which I'm willing to bet is far from entirely gone even now.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
I think 4rth failed to connect with players for another reason. Its devoid of lore, the world background, the NPCs, the places etc. They made a tabletop game they could grow with (ie. simplify the million and one individual one use powers...) but failed to deliver on the things players really wanted, worlds to play in. All rules, no fluffy lore, that's what killed 4rth. They even stayed away from an OGL so third party books couldn't save them lol.
You sir are one of the wisest people I have seen on these forums.
Been a long time coming, I'm more excited about this than anything I can remember for the last year or more
Oh those people? They were excluded by the supernova. So many of them were excluded by the supernova that some miner guy went bonkers and travelled back in time to destroy Vulcan.
Darn right I do. I actually don't even like the alignment system very much.
The difference is that you have options in STO, options to choose to be exceptional, or not. We are getting a splinter faction to the exclusion of the main faction. That is different.
Accusing me of absolute moralism? Have you even been reading my posts? I don't believe in any such thing.
Again, completely taking everythign I say out of context to further your agenda. It's not as simple as that. heck, it isn't even remotely like that. I don't have a problem with peopel having their 'exceptional' characters-heck, I have even suggested Playable species unlocks, zen unlocked bridge offciers, etc to faucilitate this. it would be agreat way for people who want to RP a renegade Romulan or a Reunificationist or whatever. I have a problem with Cryptic taking away our ability to play as *normal* Romulans, like the captains and commanders so often showcased in the show.
I am not dictating any rules to anyone, despite whatever words you try to cram into my mouth. This is all my opinion, which I am entitled to voice.
All of this is wild conjecture and baseless accusations against my positions.
You need to calm down and take a chill pill, in my opinion.
Yeah, all those secretive police states are doing so well today. The Soviet Union, East Germany, Yugoslavia... for that matter nothing bad happened to Czar Nicholas II because he had the Ohkrana.
Oh, and guess what the secretive and isolationist Japanese did when they realized that if they didn't modernize they were going to become another China? They embraced the West. They took what they considered the best of Western civilization and utilized it. But you'd probably say they were no longer Japanese because they eliminated the samurai caste during the Meiji Restoration.
It's worth pointing out here that cooperation between the Klingons and the Federation after Praxis was opposed or supported by various people on both sides because... WAIT FOR IT... neither side is a hive mind where everybody has the exact same beliefs and opinions.
That was one of the main story points of Star Trek VI.
As far as "ggod Guys" faction..in Trek.. there isn't one.
What there is how ever is a sort of "Cultural chavanism" All of the major "empires" are multiracial/multi cultural to a point.. The UFP obviously so.. The Klingons have become more so.. though perhapes they always were to a certain extent. The Romulans, incluse Remans, and several minor client races... and the list goes on.
But each and every one of them belives "they" are the best, most deserving of domination, etc..
Well, so much for that.
I didn't think the Cryptic was going to bang out the Romulans as a playable faction quite so soon. I would have prefered a more machavellian Romulan faction, but then there is no reason that the players themselves cant be Romulnas in the classic sense. It's all up to them.
Khemaraa sends
So how much do I want a Romulan faction? Zero.
Good and Evil are societal labels whose purpose is to differentiate between varying degrees of socially acceptable behavour and non-socially acceptable behaviour within the context of a society. That's all.
As to the rest of your tirade here, all I have been saying is that the RSE is the appropriate and obvious choice for a faction, while these splinter groups such as D'Tan and the RR are not. While those groups may be 'good' by our standards (and certainly from their POV) the RSE is an 'evil' faction, even if they themselves do not see themselves as such.
As far as Romulans (and Drow) are concerned, 'evil' is the expected standard, and 'good' the exception. An 'evil' faction of Romulans is thus the expected faction, not these 'good' Romulan Republic fellows. 'Good'/Renegade/Whatever Romulans are not an appropriate match for a species which has for so long been defined as 'evil'. There, I hope that clears up this pedantic alignment side-argument you seem to have fixed on, because it really is getting tiring and I'm not sure what on earth your point is supposed to be.
There are already borg players doing STFs, in case you haven't noticed. They are not part of a Borg faction. I have already suggested zen store unlocks for Romulan players who want to play 'good' guys, since they are the exception rather than the rule. As for what RSE players would be doing? Fighting the KDF, FEDs, like they already do in the storyline, rebuilding their empire, rescuing Sela from the Undine, there's a lot for them to do, and a lot of it is stuff that the RR will have to deal with to, in their own manner, but it was not necessary for the RSE to become the RR and lose all of its special flavor in order to do them.
I could see where you were coming from, perhaps. If the RSE wasn't alive and kicking and up to their old shennanegins even with Hobus. Even the old Klingon Empire rebounded with enough time, just look at STO. They didn't have to give up their warrior culture with its honor, glory, duty fixation, its duels etc. The Romulan faction could have been the story of them rebounding. It still will be, just as the RR isntead of the RSE-the important part here is that nothing necessitated them from beign made into the RR. They could have doen all of this as the RSE. The RSE had just as much potential to rebound as the RR, it is just that Crypric chose not to.
As for end content? There is pleanty of stuff they could do, and just because they could be the RSE does not mean they cannot participate in STFs and other end game content. The Iconians (more than any other faction), Borg, Undine, and Tholians are everyone's problem. If you watched DS9, you might have noticed the Romulans joined the war against the Dominion. They didn't need to become Freedom fighters to do it either. There are pleanty of ways the RSE could have been implemented with meaningful content.
I have 10 active lvl 50 Characters, 6 FED, 4 KDF... i've seen it all, i've done it all...
and in the end you go with what works best for you... by now all my chars tend to use the same style of Ship (Escorts! only DPS counts anymore), the same 3 type of ground Kits... for the same 3 Classes... again and again... i avoid SCI ships, i moved away from Cruisers more and more Escorts find their way into my Characters. Carriers are boring, Sci ships don't feel like they are doing anything to me... Cruisers are flying stones that no one will shoot at...
I really hope that this Romulan Faction will come with more than just copy and paste-Skilltree / Kit / BOff abilities / the default 3 Character Classes from the FEDs + KDF.
The KDF at least had the Bird of Prey and Carriers which set the faction apart just enough to not be a 100% copy cat of the Feds. Which was watered down a bit over the 3 years...
What will the Romulans bring to the table?
more cloaking device? KDF has that already to perfection...
More cloaking device working as intended boff popups? *facepalm*
The Join FED / KDF later thing is not from the table yet. So i really hope that after the 5 or maybe 10 Romulan Story missions that we may get, i will not just be flying a Warbird with a green UI for the FED / KDF...
then it would be just another LockBox ship at Endgame, and that would be major FAIL SAUCE.
I'm more into brains over brawn bad guys.
this 1000 x this
My philosophy is get all the factions in as soon as possible, and then build them up together. it makes more sense than building them up one at a time, and having to constantly rework things every time.
if it was my choice id have cardassians come in next update due late 2013.