If you look at the Ds9 fleet combat scenes, it all 24th century ships had the ability fpr that volu,me of torpedo fire.
Biggest (longest ) Beam array ever, plain said.
^^^
In what episode (not doubting it's was it's just a line I don't recall)
Highly versatile, modular configurable interior.
ect, ect.
^^^
Again, a core feature of every Fed starship (going by statements in numerous episodes across all series - except 'Enterprise'
Of course you can make it the weakest and most boring ship ever, if you only count it's weak performances.
If so i would want to see other ships instead in the same situations and THEN cryptics designers can judge a ships combat capabilitiy.
But to take some scenes where it under performs and judge them completely out of context is really bad game design.
At least it shows the lack of common sense IMO.
Well, again, if you want to just say "I want it to be the best because I like it..."
that's a fair statement - but, don't go citing canon examples then.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
If you look at the Ds9 fleet combat scenes, it all 24th century ships had the ability fpr that volu,me of torpedo fire.
^^^
In what episode (not doubting it's was it's just a line I don't recall)
^^^
Again, a core feature of every Fed starship (going by statements in numerous episodes across all series - except 'Enterprise'
Well, again, if you want to just say "I want it to be the best because I like it..."
that's a fair statement - but, don't go citing canon examples then.
It has been sayd numerous times in TNG that the Galaxy class was by far the most powerful ship in Starfleet, even the borg said that.
Of course now you can pull that sentence apart, but at least where i come from that means biggest hull, shields, big guns.
Now you show me where in canon it is said that the Ambassador and the Excelsior have more firepower than a galaxy Class....
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
- Cut a hole in the hull, extracting 4 decks and killing 18 crewmembers.
- Drained the 1701-Ds shields to zero in seconds
- Locked a Tractor beam on to the Ent-D
All before Picard FINALLY gave an oder to return fire and 'terminate that beam (and Mr. Worf and the Ent-D's targeting system was so accurate that with BOTH ships at a complete standstill - it took Worf FOUR shots to finally hit the beam Picard ordered terminated?
^^
You sure you still want this included as a "Galaxy's finest moment"?
Well, when the Daud was trying to Drive the Ent-D off - we saw spread after spread of torpedoes and phasers just bounce off it's shields - and even Picard's assessment of gthat encounter in trying to get 'the survivors' to leave was "we lost."
In the other two encounters - the first was just trying to get Picard to chase the ship from the planet (and afterwards hopefully leave 'the survivors' be); and the final encounter was just to allow them to easily destry the ship after the hip had killed the survivors (and after the previous enounter which had them launching full salvos with no damage to the enemy, sorry, Rikers and the crew's sudden lake of reaction to taking the same ship out witn ONE photon torpedo was just plain bad/lazy writing, but that's another issue.)
^^
Still given what was shown, I wouldn't consider it a glowing display of Galaxy Class firepower or combat effectiveness.
They had one scene where it took TWO Galaxy class ships to damage ONE Cardassian Galor - hardly an impressive display - and DS9 did showcase the ultimate result of the U.S.S. Odyssey vs the Jem Hadar (which I've linked before)
Well, again, what I described was all in Star Trek canon. That's what the developers of STO are trying to make use of when adding ships to the game. Why shoul the Galaxy Class be exempted from what was shown on the TV screen? If anything, you're admitting that the Galaxy Class WASN'T designed as a front line combat battleship - yet that's what you want it to be in STO.
It's great to see someone in here who can look at the big picture. Keep on truckin' friend.
But just for the record, it's improbable that any of the TMP era ships could chain torpedo fire like a Galaxy could in canon. Maybe when they got star fleet command level refits like the excelsior in DS9 did.
It's great to see someone in here who can look at the big picture. Keep on truckin' friend.
But just for the record, it's improbable that any of the TMP era ships could chain torpedo fire like a Galaxy could in canon. Maybe when they got star fleet command level refits like the excelsior in DS9 did.
I dunno about that. Torpedoes are shown to be largely self-propelled, and the Galaxy only had one forward torpedo tube, compared to the Excelsior's two forward tubes.
I dunno about that. Torpedoes are shown to be largely self-propelled, and the Galaxy only had one forward torpedo tube, compared to the Excelsior's two forward tubes.
It's definitely possible with combined tube upgrades, I just doubt that it was very common. In sacrifice of Angels one of the Miranda's lets out either a two or three shot torpedo burst. That seems like a situation where they would want to fire as many torpedos as fast as they could, but then again maybe they thought they would be escorting the Defiant all the way to DS9 . . .
well well well, all i can said is the exelsior should be erase from the game and its owners should be flogged with a whip nails for daring to play a ship that is more efficient than the galaxy class in sto.
then they should enhanced all galaxy class to righfully make them the more powerfull ship of the entire multiverse and all it known variant:)
and that it! problem solved!
next!:)
Notice that the majority of people that bash the Galaxy are Defiant Class Ship Owners or "Escort Fighter Jocks". The Galaxy has a lot more finesse, not a blunt force instrument like the new Andorian Ship, the vessel has more in common with a scalpel then a club.
Notice that the majority of people that bash the Galaxy are Defiant Class Ship Owners or "Escort Fighter Jocks".
That's only because the majority of people are now flying those ships. If this discussion were taking place a year and a half ago, they'd all be flying Excelsiors.
That's only because the majority of people are now flying those ships. If this discussion were taking place a year and a half ago, they'd all be flying Excelsiors.
I think most of them would even fly an old pakled freighter if Cryptic would have made it with firepower than their ships have now.
And they would praise Cryptic for that and explain everyone else the crystal clear logic behind that... :D:D
If cryptic is happy with customers like this, then they should just make a generic Sci Fi game.
I'm sorry but i don't have time to waste on that anymore...
Even if Cryptic would somehow make the Galaxy Class more versatile or have more firepower, etc. it wouldn't change their beloved Escorts or Excelsiors at all.
Cryptic fanboys still could their beloved escorts. Nothing would change for them at all.
EDIT:
Cryptic should release a Galaxy Class pack, similar to the Vesta/Andorian Escort pack. (Just look at my signature)
They should call it "mirror Universe Exploration cruiser Pack" instead, so Escort fanboys and Galaxy Class haters still have their weak and inferior ship (which they don't even want to fly themselves, btw. lol).
Since these are mirror universe ships they wouldn't affect the already existing Galaxy Class ships, and Escort fanboys wouldn't have anything to rant about.
And yes, there would be many Galaxy class variants in this game, but only because there are so many different opinions about it.
In my eyes it is just unfair from Cryptic to listen only to one side and completely ignoring everyone else. They even miss a big opportunity to make a lot of cash!
EDIT:
Another Option would be to release a "Mirror Exploration Cruiser Refit" featuring the BOFF and Console Layout of the Ambassador,
just with the looks of the Galaxy + Variants.
If that is, again, to much to ask, then i see no reason to continue wasting my time trying to convince Cryptics devs of anything at all.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
No, just no. No more Galaxy stuff. All ships added from this point onward should only be 25th century designs.
Lol, no one forces you to fly one.
Whats the point of having 100 variations of the same ship if all of them suck?
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
It's no different than asking for a T5 Constitution.
260 years compared to a ship roughly 60 years old....
If you can't see the difference, i can't help you.
I bet a T5 Constitution wouldn't be the most boring, slow and passive ship in the game.
Even the Ambassador is a much more versatile/stronger ship than the Exploration Cruiser Refit, is it really to much to ask the get a bit more versatility and firepower for its successor?
As a Excelsior/Escort fanboy, you wouldn't even notice if Cryptic would introduce a enhanced Galaxy Class, IT WOULDN'T CHANGE ANYTHING FOR YOU. No one would force you to buy one, or to fly one.
But with the introduction of a Galaxy Class which is more like we see it, STO would be much less frustrating and more fun for us and Cryptic would make a pile of money.
Why do you think this would be something bad?
If you think the Galaxy Class is allright as it is, may i ask you if you use one?
If not, why?
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Okay I'm going to split my reponse to cannon(speculation) and STO
Cannon: THe Galaxy Class and design and built late 2350's to early 2360's. There is no actual proof that the Cardassian war was still being fought at this time. the best I can see is that the carddie ware was late 2340's to early 2350's. And that war could have easily been 1st gulf wart like where is was quick. Soo look at the galaxy at the time. Fed and KDF at peace and in a strong alliance, Romualns at peace and quiet for decades. and no one else can go toe to toe with the fed at that point so the Galaxy family of ships are more peace oriented. the Galaxy was design for Peaceful exploration first, combat second. and duing the 2360's only a handful of Galaxys were ment to be built. 8 hulls, 4 launch with the remain to be spares (incase of lost of either the Saucer or stardrive/battle section). The 4 were Galaxy, Columbia, Enterprise, Yamato. with Nebulas taking up the rest. at this point Excels were work horses for the fleet thus many of them plus alot of admirals served on them during their careers so of course they'll pick that class for their flagship. Figure during the 2360's that hundereds of Excels, mirandas, and oberths. Figure to be maybe half of stafleet was made up of these 3 classes. with MAYBE 20 or so Ambassadors. Now during the 2370's war was looming and starfleet tried to retool. hence the launch of the dark skin warships. (all ships in first contact). Note The Soverreign is longer but not as tall as the Galaxy and I figure that both are mirror images. the Sovereign is capable of science and exploration but that is secondary to the combat role (reverse of the Galaxy). They also wanted to adapt current ships to better preformance. the Venture and Lakota. but the DW happened earlier than plan so not many galaxys or Excels got the full refit. I figure during DWE there was 10 maybe 20 Galaxy's active. Since DS( fleet to take back DS9 was 2-3 fleets we can assume 2 Galaxy per fleet..
Also I think the DW started about 2374 so once again what did starfleet have for fleet layout? 50% of TMP refits, 30% of Ambassador and Galaxy family, 20% of the First contact era ships. So we would see more of the TMP as the yards built new ships as quickly as possible. After the war we can assume that the destroyed TMP ships were replaced by FC ships. Also that the Galaxys were given the full refits and perhaps thoughts of designing and building the Galaxy X start.
Now for STO. Given the time we're in the bulk of the fleet should be TNG and FC area ships with The excel still around but being phased out. thus as the starfleet in sto should be is Excel being were the connie is and the connie being Zen store only makes not sense after a century of being decomissioned she suddenly appears again.
Now for the Galaxy in game. the Captain Galaxy should remain unchanged but the Zen store version should have the TRUE venture styling and more Universal BO slots. NAd be overall better that Ambassador. The fleet version should be tac oriented for that's the WHOLE point of the fleet variant. Maybe one of the universal BO slots made a tac slot.
Final note to all those say tha Galaxy is weak less look at the onscreen deaths for the ship: Yamato, Died do to incompadible computer program causing warp core breach. Odyssey, (replaced Yamato) Dies due to kamikaze run, note guess on damage main engineering could have been hit those warp core damaged thus breach (also note not having shields at beginning of battle not ever predicted by Galaxy designers \thus also effects overall durability) Enterprise, Dursa sisters had the shield modulation thus no shields again and with most of the damage in the engineering section causes coolent leack leading to Warp Core breach ( Two notes here, one the ED should have rotate shield modualtion and unleased phaser and torpedo hell and destroy the B'rel but plot point says ED has to die. Note Ed saucer could have survived and get a new stardrive section but plot point shows up again and ED declared unsalavagable). Thus all onscreen Galaxy deaths are due to plot not ship design.
Cannon: THe Galaxy Class and design and built late 2350's to early 2360's. There is no actual proof that the Cardassian war was still being fought at this time. the best I can see is that the carddie ware was late 2340's to early 2350's.
The Federation-Cardassian Wars, known in the Federation as the Cardassian Wars or Border Wars, were prolonged conflicts between the Federation and the Cardassian Union, which started as far back as 2347 and lasted into the 2350s. (Smaller skirmishes, not officially considered part of the wars, continued into the 2360s.) The ensuing stalemate by the mid-2360s advantaged neither side in firepower or territory. A 2367 truce enforced an end to hostilities but left key questions unresolved; the finalized treaty, unsigned until 2370, formed a demilitarized zone between the powers, creating a new border and clarifying claims to planets such as Dorvan V.
So according to canon established in TNG and later DS9, the conflict was still taking place during the development of the Galaxy.
The Galaxy-class was a Starfleet vessel first introduced in the late 2350s. It was one of the largest and most powerful Federation starship classes of its time, with many serving in the Dominion War.
Design and Development
The Galaxy Class Starship Development Project began in the 2350s at Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards. (TNG: "Booby Trap", "Eye of the Beholder") Numerous technologies implemented on Galaxy-class starships were tested aboard earlier prototype vessels, including the Oberth-class USS Pegasus in the 2350s. (TNG: "The Pegasus")
So to reiterate ...
When someone suggests that the Excelsior was designed during a time of conflict or war or "cold" war with the Klingon Empire, it also is true that the Galaxy was designed during a time of conflict with the Cardassians. (And also the Tholians).
As was seen in episodes of TNG.
Neither ship was designed to be a warship. But the Federation was involved in conflict during both time periods.
during the galaxy's development there was open war with the cardiasians, like the whole time. that didn't end till halfway through TNG, likely because of the federations new galaxy and nebula battleships having such a dramatic effect. an excelsior is proboly a match for a galor, but based on the performance of a nebula in 'the wounded' these ships could slaughter the cardasian's best. much of the first 2 seasons of DS9 were about the aftermath and the colonists ending up on the wrong side of the new border, the war JUST ended.
sisko served with admiral layton when he was captain of the okinawa, during the LAST tzenkethy war. enfasis on last, not the. as in there have been several, likely throughout the 24rd century.
the tholians were constantly harassing the federation, it was feared they would take advantage during the klingon civil war too, but thankful they didn't. they were so aggressive, they destroyed starbases. riker's father was the only survivor of 1 such incident.
the borg, the dominoin war, thought the greatest threats ever faced, they are just in a long line of galactic conflicts the federation has been a part of, there was never a period of complacency, and the galaxy class is not a product of such a non existent period.
the galaxy seems like the first in the line of a new more modern starfleet ships. relying on 10000 excelsiors and mirandas and a couple hundred ambassadors to do everything just wouldn't cut it anymore, they were to antiquated or to under gunned for their size and operating cost. thus the nebula, galaxy, norway, intrepid, steamrunner, saber, nova, akira, and sovereign. all completely replacing classes still in use 50 to 100 years old. they were finishing development and rushed to mass production just in time for the dominion war and second borg attack.
that point about the galaxy only dieing due to plot devices are true. they could only write the ship as an underdog, even though they were dealing with the federation's largest and most powerful ship. they must have liked voyager a lot better, it was actually an underdog.
there are so many examples of impossibly bad incompetence by the crew, 'rascals' being the worst. a handful of ferengi, taking over a ship of over 1000. wtf were the writers thinking. that honsuk warship was actually the construct of a super being, it was invincible. that being the case, the D actually got to not hold back for once. that super being murdered the entire species of honsuk, after they attacked the surface of the planet he was on, so of course the D could not harm his recreated ship.
worf hit the cube till it was no longer a threat, just disabling the tractor beam would provoke a response, thats only reasonable. so he beat the snot out of it, annihilating more of its surface then there was volume of the enterprise, with just 3 shots. of course, they had no idea what they were dealing with, and from then on they were basically invulnerable to federation weapons after that.
the dominion were already spying on the federation when the odyssey battle happened. the first actual contact was an attempt to insert a vorta into the station so it could spy for them also. with the magic of shield modulation, the ody could not harm the bugs, and their shields were useless against polaron weapons. luckily, from the data from that fight no doubt, not long after phasers could harm dominion ships. and by the time the dominion took DS9, federation shields worked too.
the galaxy really has gotten no chance to show off in a strait and fair fight, without the crew being epic failiors, but that also has to do with early 90s effect tech. if it was all cgi created last decade, we wouldn't have to debate this.
When someone suggests that the Excelsior was designed during a time of conflict or war or "cold" war with the Klingon Empire, it also is true that the Galaxy was designed during a time of conflict with the Cardassians. (And also the Tholians).
As was seen in episodes of TNG.
Neither ship was designed to be a warship. But the Federation was involved in conflict during both time periods.
is their ANY quote that memory alpha is correct. Obrien fought in it and when he was on the Enterprise for Wounded he had to be in his thirties. what's to say the war wasn't fought when he was 18. We have no real dates for the war or for the war Sisko was in. and AS I pointed out these wars might not have lasted long. Example is the first gulf war. it was a war and barely lasted a year. Can't the same be said for the Fed Cardassian war? And the excels and Ambassador's could beat the early Galors in that war.
Again other people like snoggymack22 and dontdrunkimshoot are much more competent to explain the point of this thread.
But even i can see the the blatant unjustice the Galaxy Class got in STO.
In Universe:
I think after the obvious incompetence Lt. Worf and first and foremost Cmdr. Riker showed on numerous occasions in TNG they should be court-martialed especially since Riker acted like a complete fool in ST:7, not that he failed to defend the Enterprise against an old BOP, he didn't even tried.
After the events of ST:7, the whole command staff of the Enterprise -D should have been court martialed, including Picard.
The only explaination for me is that they where under the influence of some supernatural being or drugs.
Because their behavior was more than incompetent, it was almost like they had been replaced by changelings.
EDIT:
I am already at the point where i would be happy if we could get a Fleet Exloration Cruiser with the BOFF and Console Layout of the Support Cruiser Retrofit at the Z-Store.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
with the magic of shield modulation, the ody could not harm the bugs
That is an outright lie. There is no evidence to suggest star fleet had been infiltrated by that point. Weyoun never makes a remark about being surprised federation weapons work on Dominion vessels.
Again other people like snoggymack22 and dontdrunkimshoot are much more competent to explain the point of this thread.
But even i can see the the blatant unjustice the Galaxy Class got in STO.
In Universe:
I think after the obvious incompetence Lt. Worf and first and foremost Cmdr. Riker showed on numerous occasions in TNG they should be court-martialed especially since Riker acted like a complete fool in ST:7, not that he failed to defend the Enterprise against an old BOP, he didn't even tried.
After the events of ST:7, the whole command staff of the Enterprise -D should have been court martialed, including Picard.
The only explaination for me is that they where under the influence of some supernatural being or drugs.
Because their behavior was more than incompetent, it was almost like they had been replaced by changelings.
EDIT:
I am already at the point where i would be happy if we could get a Fleet Exloration Cruiser with the BOFF and Console Layout of the Support Cruiser Retrofit at the Z-Store.
Lol,I'm at the point that I would be happy for universal ensign it deserves by the fleet ships "logic" whatever it is.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
I don't understand the comment here. Yes. Memory Alpha is correct. But if you need further backup, the Star Trek Encyclopedia says pretty much the same thing.
We have no real dates for the war
Yes. We do. And I linked them to you. They come from the shows themselves.
and AS I pointed out these wars might not have lasted long.
But it did last long. As demonstrated in the information gathered from the shows and published on Memory Alpha, or published in print in the Star Trek Encyclopedia.
That is an outright lie. There is no evidence to suggest star fleet had been infiltrated by that point. Weyoun never makes a remark about being surprised about federation weapons working on Dominion vessels.
In a DS9 episode a Jem'hadar 1st beamed into the comand center of Ds9
was put in a containment field
and walked smugly out of it
And bragged about knowing about fed technology , was then beamed out of ds9 with its shields up !
Yes indeed the federation had already been spyed on before the Oddessy went into the worm hole
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
In a DS9 episode a Jem'hadar 1st beamed into the comand center of Ds9
was put in a containment field
and walked smugly out of it
And bragged about knowing about fed technology , was then beamed out of ds9 with its shields up !
Yes indeed the federation had already been spyed on before the Oddessy went into the worm hole
Being infiltrated and knowing about technology are two different things. Passing through forcefields and having invincible shields are two different things.
Why was the supposed immunity to Federation weaponry never discussed? We know the Romulans and Cardassians had been infiltrated, why weren't the Dominion ships invulnerable to their weaponry as well? The technological barriers between the two factions were well examined. There is no reason to believe such a remark.
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
If they could beam thru a shield they can also Shoot thru a shield
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
If they could beam thru a shield they can also Shoot thru a shield
I'm not saying the Dominion couldn't initially shoot through federation shields, I'm saying theres no evidence the Dominion initially had invulnerable shields. These points were clearly illustrated in my original post.
is their ANY quote that memory alpha is correct. Obrien fought in it and when he was on the Enterprise for Wounded he had to be in his thirties. what's to say the war wasn't fought when he was 18. We have no real dates for the war or for the war Sisko was in. and AS I pointed out these wars might not have lasted long. Example is the first gulf war. it was a war and barely lasted a year. Can't the same be said for the Fed Cardassian war? And the excels and Ambassador's could beat the early Galors in that war.
From the TNG era, the Ambassador is regarded as the first "modern" starship. The Norway, Steamrunner, Saber, Akira, and Soveriegn classes, were designed after Wolf 359, from the ground up, as Borg fighters. They had automatically, refrequencing, shield, and weapons systems. The plot device came in, when Picard, suddenly, remembered that their actually was an achilles heal to a ship that was described, explicately, as having multiple, redundancies, to avoid weaknesses.
Comments
If you look at the Ds9 fleet combat scenes, it all 24th century ships had the ability fpr that volu,me of torpedo fire.
^^^
In what episode (not doubting it's was it's just a line I don't recall)
^^^
Again, a core feature of every Fed starship (going by statements in numerous episodes across all series - except 'Enterprise'
Well, again, if you want to just say "I want it to be the best because I like it..."
that's a fair statement - but, don't go citing canon examples then.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Of course now you can pull that sentence apart, but at least where i come from that means biggest hull, shields, big guns.
Now you show me where in canon it is said that the Ambassador and the Excelsior have more firepower than a galaxy Class....
It's great to see someone in here who can look at the big picture. Keep on truckin' friend.
But just for the record, it's improbable that any of the TMP era ships could chain torpedo fire like a Galaxy could in canon. Maybe when they got star fleet command level refits like the excelsior in DS9 did.
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I dunno about that. Torpedoes are shown to be largely self-propelled, and the Galaxy only had one forward torpedo tube, compared to the Excelsior's two forward tubes.
It's definitely possible with combined tube upgrades, I just doubt that it was very common. In sacrifice of Angels one of the Miranda's lets out either a two or three shot torpedo burst. That seems like a situation where they would want to fire as many torpedos as fast as they could, but then again maybe they thought they would be escorting the Defiant all the way to DS9 . . .
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Twitter:
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then they should enhanced all galaxy class to righfully make them the more powerfull ship of the entire multiverse and all it known variant:)
and that it! problem solved!
next!:)
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
That's only because the majority of people are now flying those ships. If this discussion were taking place a year and a half ago, they'd all be flying Excelsiors.
I think most of them would even fly an old pakled freighter if Cryptic would have made it with firepower than their ships have now.
And they would praise Cryptic for that and explain everyone else the crystal clear logic behind that...
If cryptic is happy with customers like this, then they should just make a generic Sci Fi game.
I'm sorry but i don't have time to waste on that anymore...
Even if Cryptic would somehow make the Galaxy Class more versatile or have more firepower, etc. it wouldn't change their beloved Escorts or Excelsiors at all.
Cryptic fanboys still could their beloved escorts. Nothing would change for them at all.
EDIT:
Cryptic should release a Galaxy Class pack, similar to the Vesta/Andorian Escort pack.
(Just look at my signature)
They should call it "mirror Universe Exploration cruiser Pack" instead, so Escort fanboys and Galaxy Class haters still have their weak and inferior ship (which they don't even want to fly themselves, btw. lol).
Since these are mirror universe ships they wouldn't affect the already existing Galaxy Class ships, and Escort fanboys wouldn't have anything to rant about.
And yes, there would be many Galaxy class variants in this game, but only because there are so many different opinions about it.
In my eyes it is just unfair from Cryptic to listen only to one side and completely ignoring everyone else. They even miss a big opportunity to make a lot of cash!
EDIT:
Another Option would be to release a "Mirror Exploration Cruiser Refit" featuring the BOFF and Console Layout of the Ambassador,
just with the looks of the Galaxy + Variants.
If that is, again, to much to ask, then i see no reason to continue wasting my time trying to convince Cryptics devs of anything at all.
Lol, no one forces you to fly one.
Whats the point of having 100 variations of the same ship if all of them suck?
If you can't see the difference, i can't help you.
I bet a T5 Constitution wouldn't be the most boring, slow and passive ship in the game.
Even the Ambassador is a much more versatile/stronger ship than the Exploration Cruiser Refit, is it really to much to ask the get a bit more versatility and firepower for its successor?
As a Excelsior/Escort fanboy, you wouldn't even notice if Cryptic would introduce a enhanced Galaxy Class, IT WOULDN'T CHANGE ANYTHING FOR YOU. No one would force you to buy one, or to fly one.
But with the introduction of a Galaxy Class which is more like we see it, STO would be much less frustrating and more fun for us and Cryptic would make a pile of money.
Why do you think this would be something bad?
If you think the Galaxy Class is allright as it is, may i ask you if you use one?
If not, why?
Nope that be Oberth
Oh look, a fail argument that was refuted a long looong time ago.
Cannon: THe Galaxy Class and design and built late 2350's to early 2360's. There is no actual proof that the Cardassian war was still being fought at this time. the best I can see is that the carddie ware was late 2340's to early 2350's. And that war could have easily been 1st gulf wart like where is was quick. Soo look at the galaxy at the time. Fed and KDF at peace and in a strong alliance, Romualns at peace and quiet for decades. and no one else can go toe to toe with the fed at that point so the Galaxy family of ships are more peace oriented. the Galaxy was design for Peaceful exploration first, combat second. and duing the 2360's only a handful of Galaxys were ment to be built. 8 hulls, 4 launch with the remain to be spares (incase of lost of either the Saucer or stardrive/battle section). The 4 were Galaxy, Columbia, Enterprise, Yamato. with Nebulas taking up the rest. at this point Excels were work horses for the fleet thus many of them plus alot of admirals served on them during their careers so of course they'll pick that class for their flagship. Figure during the 2360's that hundereds of Excels, mirandas, and oberths. Figure to be maybe half of stafleet was made up of these 3 classes. with MAYBE 20 or so Ambassadors. Now during the 2370's war was looming and starfleet tried to retool. hence the launch of the dark skin warships. (all ships in first contact). Note The Soverreign is longer but not as tall as the Galaxy and I figure that both are mirror images. the Sovereign is capable of science and exploration but that is secondary to the combat role (reverse of the Galaxy). They also wanted to adapt current ships to better preformance. the Venture and Lakota. but the DW happened earlier than plan so not many galaxys or Excels got the full refit. I figure during DWE there was 10 maybe 20 Galaxy's active. Since DS( fleet to take back DS9 was 2-3 fleets we can assume 2 Galaxy per fleet..
Also I think the DW started about 2374 so once again what did starfleet have for fleet layout? 50% of TMP refits, 30% of Ambassador and Galaxy family, 20% of the First contact era ships. So we would see more of the TMP as the yards built new ships as quickly as possible. After the war we can assume that the destroyed TMP ships were replaced by FC ships. Also that the Galaxys were given the full refits and perhaps thoughts of designing and building the Galaxy X start.
Now for STO. Given the time we're in the bulk of the fleet should be TNG and FC area ships with The excel still around but being phased out. thus as the starfleet in sto should be is Excel being were the connie is and the connie being Zen store only makes not sense after a century of being decomissioned she suddenly appears again.
Now for the Galaxy in game. the Captain Galaxy should remain unchanged but the Zen store version should have the TRUE venture styling and more Universal BO slots. NAd be overall better that Ambassador. The fleet version should be tac oriented for that's the WHOLE point of the fleet variant. Maybe one of the universal BO slots made a tac slot.
Final note to all those say tha Galaxy is weak less look at the onscreen deaths for the ship: Yamato, Died do to incompadible computer program causing warp core breach. Odyssey, (replaced Yamato) Dies due to kamikaze run, note guess on damage main engineering could have been hit those warp core damaged thus breach (also note not having shields at beginning of battle not ever predicted by Galaxy designers \thus also effects overall durability) Enterprise, Dursa sisters had the shield modulation thus no shields again and with most of the damage in the engineering section causes coolent leack leading to Warp Core breach ( Two notes here, one the ED should have rotate shield modualtion and unleased phaser and torpedo hell and destroy the B'rel but plot point says ED has to die. Note Ed saucer could have survived and get a new stardrive section but plot point shows up again and ED declared unsalavagable). Thus all onscreen Galaxy deaths are due to plot not ship design.
Memory Alpha does not say "early" 2350s at all.
It says:
So according to canon established in TNG and later DS9, the conflict was still taking place during the development of the Galaxy.
Which is stated at Memory Alpha as being the same period, the 2350s:
So to reiterate ...
When someone suggests that the Excelsior was designed during a time of conflict or war or "cold" war with the Klingon Empire, it also is true that the Galaxy was designed during a time of conflict with the Cardassians. (And also the Tholians).
As was seen in episodes of TNG.
Neither ship was designed to be a warship. But the Federation was involved in conflict during both time periods.
sisko served with admiral layton when he was captain of the okinawa, during the LAST tzenkethy war. enfasis on last, not the. as in there have been several, likely throughout the 24rd century.
the tholians were constantly harassing the federation, it was feared they would take advantage during the klingon civil war too, but thankful they didn't. they were so aggressive, they destroyed starbases. riker's father was the only survivor of 1 such incident.
the borg, the dominoin war, thought the greatest threats ever faced, they are just in a long line of galactic conflicts the federation has been a part of, there was never a period of complacency, and the galaxy class is not a product of such a non existent period.
the galaxy seems like the first in the line of a new more modern starfleet ships. relying on 10000 excelsiors and mirandas and a couple hundred ambassadors to do everything just wouldn't cut it anymore, they were to antiquated or to under gunned for their size and operating cost. thus the nebula, galaxy, norway, intrepid, steamrunner, saber, nova, akira, and sovereign. all completely replacing classes still in use 50 to 100 years old. they were finishing development and rushed to mass production just in time for the dominion war and second borg attack.
that point about the galaxy only dieing due to plot devices are true. they could only write the ship as an underdog, even though they were dealing with the federation's largest and most powerful ship. they must have liked voyager a lot better, it was actually an underdog.
there are so many examples of impossibly bad incompetence by the crew, 'rascals' being the worst. a handful of ferengi, taking over a ship of over 1000. wtf were the writers thinking. that honsuk warship was actually the construct of a super being, it was invincible. that being the case, the D actually got to not hold back for once. that super being murdered the entire species of honsuk, after they attacked the surface of the planet he was on, so of course the D could not harm his recreated ship.
worf hit the cube till it was no longer a threat, just disabling the tractor beam would provoke a response, thats only reasonable. so he beat the snot out of it, annihilating more of its surface then there was volume of the enterprise, with just 3 shots. of course, they had no idea what they were dealing with, and from then on they were basically invulnerable to federation weapons after that.
the dominion were already spying on the federation when the odyssey battle happened. the first actual contact was an attempt to insert a vorta into the station so it could spy for them also. with the magic of shield modulation, the ody could not harm the bugs, and their shields were useless against polaron weapons. luckily, from the data from that fight no doubt, not long after phasers could harm dominion ships. and by the time the dominion took DS9, federation shields worked too.
the galaxy really has gotten no chance to show off in a strait and fair fight, without the crew being epic failiors, but that also has to do with early 90s effect tech. if it was all cgi created last decade, we wouldn't have to debate this.
is their ANY quote that memory alpha is correct. Obrien fought in it and when he was on the Enterprise for Wounded he had to be in his thirties. what's to say the war wasn't fought when he was 18. We have no real dates for the war or for the war Sisko was in. and AS I pointed out these wars might not have lasted long. Example is the first gulf war. it was a war and barely lasted a year. Can't the same be said for the Fed Cardassian war? And the excels and Ambassador's could beat the early Galors in that war.
But even i can see the the blatant unjustice the Galaxy Class got in STO.
In Universe:
I think after the obvious incompetence Lt. Worf and first and foremost Cmdr. Riker showed on numerous occasions in TNG they should be court-martialed especially since Riker acted like a complete fool in ST:7, not that he failed to defend the Enterprise against an old BOP, he didn't even tried.
After the events of ST:7, the whole command staff of the Enterprise -D should have been court martialed, including Picard.
The only explaination for me is that they where under the influence of some supernatural being or drugs.
Because their behavior was more than incompetent, it was almost like they had been replaced by changelings.
EDIT:
I am already at the point where i would be happy if we could get a Fleet Exloration Cruiser with the BOFF and Console Layout of the Support Cruiser Retrofit at the Z-Store.
That is an outright lie. There is no evidence to suggest star fleet had been infiltrated by that point. Weyoun never makes a remark about being surprised federation weapons work on Dominion vessels.
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Lol,I'm at the point that I would be happy for universal ensign it deserves by the fleet ships "logic" whatever it is.
I don't understand the comment here. Yes. Memory Alpha is correct. But if you need further backup, the Star Trek Encyclopedia says pretty much the same thing.
Yes. We do. And I linked them to you. They come from the shows themselves.
But it did last long. As demonstrated in the information gathered from the shows and published on Memory Alpha, or published in print in the Star Trek Encyclopedia.
In a DS9 episode a Jem'hadar 1st beamed into the comand center of Ds9
was put in a containment field
and walked smugly out of it
And bragged about knowing about fed technology , was then beamed out of ds9 with its shields up !
Yes indeed the federation had already been spyed on before the Oddessy went into the worm hole
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Being infiltrated and knowing about technology are two different things. Passing through forcefields and having invincible shields are two different things.
Why was the supposed immunity to Federation weaponry never discussed? We know the Romulans and Cardassians had been infiltrated, why weren't the Dominion ships invulnerable to their weaponry as well? The technological barriers between the two factions were well examined. There is no reason to believe such a remark.
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Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Most of us call this Canon..........Proof
After you watch the show you will realize
If they could beam thru a shield they can also Shoot thru a shield
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I'm not saying the Dominion couldn't initially shoot through federation shields, I'm saying theres no evidence the Dominion initially had invulnerable shields. These points were clearly illustrated in my original post.
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From the TNG era, the Ambassador is regarded as the first "modern" starship. The Norway, Steamrunner, Saber, Akira, and Soveriegn classes, were designed after Wolf 359, from the ground up, as Borg fighters. They had automatically, refrequencing, shield, and weapons systems. The plot device came in, when Picard, suddenly, remembered that their actually was an achilles heal to a ship that was described, explicately, as having multiple, redundancies, to avoid weaknesses.