The excelsior ( fleet ) is in my opinion the best cruiser with 4 Tac consoles, there is no content it cannot do as well as any other ship
Solo its a stand alone ship in pve able to tank and take out any boss , not many ships can do that solo
The problem its out of reach to most players and a lot of players do not like its looks ect
There needs to be a way to upgrade your current ship to the best in its class ( cruisers )
For Zen so cryptic makes money making the programming time worth there while while also buffing cruisers and science ships to the level they need to be at
Your ship will still look like a Nebula but will have the best Boff layout weapon slots hull shield mods ect as the very best science ship in the game
Or the same for a cruiser
For a price let people fly the ship they want fully modernized for a number of fleet modules call the new ship the Mk-II for example
This would be very easy for cryptic to do because only changing numbers around on the models is needed no building of a new ship
To ask cryptic to revamp all of the science ships and cruisers to catch up to the escorts is something they will not do unless they can make money doing it is what i think
The escort is OP and far ahead of the cruisers and science ships in PvE , I fly a fleet defiant a fleet Excelsior and a Wells some of the best ships in their classes so i have experence in all the three classes as many of you do.
And you know there are a LOT of people who would spend money to fly the ship THEY want to play the game in if it was the best in its cass
everyone does not want to fly a escort A lot of people do not want to fly a alien ship
I bet cryptic isnt happy with the jem hadar ship sales either , sure dont see many being sold now do we
I think we have a glut of Op escorts and allien lock box OP ships
But nothing in the standard fed line other than a few escorts that is really game worthy
personally i think a lot of money can be made modernizing ships like the nebula ,galaxy and galaxy X
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
i think a lot of money can be made modernizing ships like the nebula ,galaxy and galaxy X
problem is it would end the power creep and be a one-time expense. If I could make my nebbie be as good as my wells. Believe me i would. But i wouldn't buy any other ships in STO ever, (D'deridex aside which i m buying no matter what stats it has).
So from their balance sheet perspective, having the most iconic ships be underperforming is working as intended. If people spend 200$ on the bug, it kills, but they would like to have a FEderation ship, they are more likely to buy the smurf, or the armitage on top of the bug.
A lot of the problem comes from the rep passives, when we look at each one what do we see? The offensive option or the defensive option, but the defense is always 10x more effective. The tier 4 passive shield heal or the % chance to proc bonus damage, the bonus damage is a complete joke, while the passive heal can double some escort's healing potential.
If this stuff would have been thought through better, the damage option might have been more appealing, but nearly every escort takes the heal.
They somehow managed to make the Kumari heals less effective than they should be. It may be a little rough around the edges on Cryptic's side but on the player end it would probably not be noticed: the only problem is many Cruisers don't support so all that would be achieved in making Escorts weaker is to increase the amount of time they spend running away or respawning. From around 40 STFs over the weekend, I received a heal in only one, and that was from a Science ship.
That was a bug, and it wouldn't have been fair to keep it just because they thought no one would notice. In fact, people did notice, which is why the bug was fixed in the first place.
Maybe adding in trait-like passive buffs to certain classes might help, but in my opinion that would only crystallize the existing constellation of builds and class combinations in service of the MMO trinity.
One of the cool things about STO's space combat is that almost any combination of class/ship is effective so long as you follow certain commonsense (sorta) "rules". Some things are without a doubt MORE effective than others, but for the most part it comes down to player skill and practice.
Gear, consoles and other gimmickry is icing on the cake and allows truly skilled players to distinguish themselves, with things like exotic builds and completing tasks crazy-quick.
It's true that the content isn't balanced and more needs to be done to reduce or mitigate the overemphasis on DPS, but in no case is the answer "hard nerfing". I'd prefer they change the STFs or make more STFs than to penalize portions of the playerbase.
And for the record, I like being able to complete ISE in almost any PUG so long as people know what they're doing, than wiping 15 times in a row playing Hammer Station in Old Republic because 1 person doesn't know how to tank properly (that happened to me just last week).
That was a bug, and it wouldn't have been fair to keep it just because they thought no one would notice. In fact, people did notice, which is why the bug was fixed in the first place
I wasn't suggesting leaving it in place, what I meant was that, whether it was a 'proper' fix or a nasty piece of work on the back end, no one playing the game would notice other than the different heal strength each ship class would have available to it.
However I have to admit that the Kumari, both now and before it was fixed, has been one of the most fun Escorts (for me, at least) to play in PvE because it is actually in danger of being destroyed by something other than a one shot. Fair enough, I can still clear an ISE without a respawn but whereas in my Fleet Defiant or MVAE that's not really anything special, in the Kumari it takes a lot more effort to stay in one piece.
One of the cool things about STO's space combat is that almost any combination of class/ship is effective so long as you follow certain commonsense (sorta) "rules". Some things are without a doubt MORE effective than others, but for the most part it comes down to player skill and practice.
True, it's also what I like and I'd hate to see a forced trinity in STO.
It's true that the content isn't balanced and more needs to be done to reduce or mitigate the overemphasis on DPS, but in no case is the answer "hard nerfing". I'd prefer they change the STFs or make more STFs than to penalize portions of the playerbase.
I don't believe a nerf is the answer either.
I still feel that one of the best things they could do with STO PvE is to remove the over reliance on kinetic damage from NPCs and switch them instead to sustained energy damage: an Escort can recover from any kinetic hit it survives as well as a Cruiser can because there's very little incoming damage in between hits (other than DoTs) but only a Cruiser or a Science ship would be able to hold up to constant 8 beam broadsides from a Tac Cube/ Negh'var/ other big Cruiser: those classes that are commonly complained about would have a purpose.
It might even make it a little less annoying when you die to a sustained attack as you can do something about it (fall back to recover or ask for heals/ resists) rather than the current one shots which serve no other purpose than to make sure everyone in the house knows that I know a lot of swear words.
Synergy is needed. The Grand Amalgamation is not the answer.
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
I still say cruisers should get a 50% bonus boost in damage vs Sci ships and a 100% bonus damage boost vs Escorts. This leaves the tankiness of the escorts untouched but that the same time, makes them think twice about attacking a 7 or 8 beamed cruiser because they'll be taking much more damage than if they were attacking another target.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
I still say cruisers should get a 50% bonus boost in damage vs Sci ships and a 100% bonus damage boost vs Escorts. This leaves the tankiness of the escorts untouched but that the same time, makes them think twice about attacking a 7 or 8 beamed cruiser because they'll be taking much more damage than if they were attacking another target.
Critical Fumble! Your opponent effortlessly circles around your attack and pummels you on the back of the head. You are dazed for 1d3 rounds.
This is Star Trek science fiction not medieval(ish) high fantasy . You don't get a racial enemy here and your demand would not fit the system of such were that the case. Though one can surmise that repeated deaths could have a negative effect on your psyche. There is no bonus to attacks against ship class and no slaughtering of innocent kobolds.
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
There needs to be a way to upgrade your current ship to the best in its class ( cruisers )
WHAT-IF the Devs created (3) versions of EVERY ship in-game? For example: A ship might have a variant with a 4th Tac Slot, another version with a 4th Sci slot (sacrificing a slot somewhere else), or say only 3 Device slots, a Hull decrease, +1-2 Turn and a + something for weapons.
For an Escort, change a Tac Boff slot to an Eng slot, or swap a Tac slot for a Sci slot. Maybe another version is a -3, or -5 turn for healing or Science ability.
The end result being EVERY SHIP would have 4 different versions. The current one, a heavy ENG based version, a heavy Sci version, and a heavy Tac version.
Perhaps taking the turn off an escort for something like healing or Sci a player may choose. Perhaps added weapons power or turning a Cruiser player may choose. Perhaps a Sci ship will be able to have an increased hull in exchange for something.
Take the current amount of Fed ships whatever it currently is and would X''s it by 3. This would take a TON of work on the Devs but the ship combinations would be so plentiful, the the game balance would return, I only see this as a game saving type of process long-term. Again, massive work on the Devs behalf, but for players it means unlimited options.....
I'm not saying LITERALLY hold me to exactly what was suggested for particular ships, I'm just using it as an example to showcase different variations of a certain ship to offset some of the in-balance of the game.
OK I'm done with my words. The trolls and haters can bring the nails, whips, and the cross now.
WHAT-IF the Devs created (3) versions of EVERY ship in-game? For example: A ship might have a variant with a 4th Tac Slot, another version with a 4th Sci slot (sacrificing a slot somewhere else), or say only 3 Device slots, a Hull decrease, +1-2 Turn and a + something for weapons.
For an Escort, change a Tac Boff slot to an Eng slot, or swap a Tac slot for a Sci slot. Maybe another version is a -3, or -5 turn for healing or Science ability.
The end result being EVERY SHIP would have 4 different versions. The current one, a heavy ENG based version, a heavy Sci version, and a heavy Tac version.
Perhaps taking the turn off an escort for something like healing or Sci a player may choose. Perhaps added weapons power or turning a Cruiser player may choose. Perhaps a Sci ship will be able to have an increased hull in exchange for something.
Take the current amount of Fed ships whatever it currently is and would X''s it by 3. This would take a TON of work on the Devs but the ship combinations would be so plentiful, the the game balance would return, I only see this as a game saving type of process long-term. Again, massive work on the Devs behalf, but for players it means unlimited options.....
I'm not saying LITERALLY hold me to exactly what was suggested for particular ships, I'm just using it as an example to showcase different variations of a certain ship to offset some of the in-balance of the game.
OK I'm done with my words. The trolls and haters can bring the nails, whips, and the cross now.
Yeah, that's already in-game.
Patrol Escort<>Advanced Escort
Star Cruiser<>Assault Cruiser
Reconnaissance Science<>Deep Space Science
You're also getting away from the issue at hand, which is that escorts are overwhelmingly better than their science vessel or cruiser counterparts. Tac and escort supporters, don't even try to debate this: escorts surpass either ship class in general combat capability. Don't try to make any excuses about healing or tanking or support either, because every ship class should have some way of being built to stand on its own legs, and not simply play second fiddle in a limited role.
I'm not sure how or even if we should address this issue in regards to escorts, but I would say that what the game may need is a broader ability buff/debuff counterbalance system in terms of science and engineering abilities, improved overall cruiser performance, and a rework of the current Tactical console system.
Nah. We just need career skills to do more than non-career skills. Tacs will be really good at the pew pew, Engs become really good at the thud thud, and Sci gets really good at the zarn zarn. And they won't be so good at the jobs of the others.
That way everyone can still access the skills, but Tac captains won't be killing everything with GW because Sci already took care of it. Nothing gets nerfed yet we still get the trinity play the game seems determined to force on everyone while only having one corner of it effective.
Sorry mate, you're straight up wrong about science ships. Bring any escort, any against my Sci Wells and it will die, the only one that always ends in a stalemate is when my Wells is against a bug. Throw the same sci in with a bug and it's unstoppable as a team, a lot of this is team work. Contact me ingame if you want to see what a Sci can do matt@tfr_maco_specialist
Buffing cruisers turn rates and beam drain would be welcome though.
Isn't this Pay to Win? Temp Sci WELLs is not a free ship and doubt many SCI could do the same with a regular ship...years ago SCI used to rule STO until they got nerfed in favor of Tacts...no use crying over spill milk...just saying there needs to be more balanced for each career path :cool:
Nah. We just need career skills to do more than non-career skills. Tacs will be really good at the pew pew, Engs become really good at the thud thud, and Sci gets really good at the zarn zarn. And they won't be so good at the jobs of the others .
By far the best sound effects ever. Slightly sarcastic, but point is well taken. I completely agree.
The new Kumari has very thin shields, and it still doesn't seem to heal at 100% normal levels. Instead of a new escort, I think I bought myself an Origami project.
Never been a big fan of "Trinity" gameplay, but I'm probably in the minority so some thoughts...
Cruisers don't often tank properly, most seem to skimp on "Threat Control" and then wonder why their tank isn't tanking and feel useless so they respec to dps and feel even more useless. As far as PvE is concerned cruisers could use an innate aggro buff, and maybe an additional restricted slot for a 360 beam or turret. They should never out dps an escort but they should have more then 1 extra weapon hardpoint to work with. "look at the size of that thing!"
As for sci they have some "fun" abilities and anyone who's ever used full spread, CRF or FAW knows how awesome a powerful GW can be, and only a few escorts have the ability to make a t1 GW. Sci get's a lot of CC which is very effective when used properly, I'm not sure why people are unhappy with their sci's, they seem to fill their roll well. Maybe it's that their contributions are mostly invisible, it's often impossible to tell who's healing or even if your being healed in heavy combat. PvE leaderboards would be nice, something for players to brag about anyhow. "I haz the best healz"
Escorts: Are fine, massive burst dps in a glass wrapper. Even the most rugged escort is squishy if you can stop them long enough, you need to have more and better timed CC then the escort has "escapes", or withstand his first a pass or 2, catch one gassed out with things on CD... easy pickings.
This the majority of this should be taken from a PvE perspective, PvP is a different ballgame.
By far the best sound effects ever. Slightly sarcastic, but point is well taken. I completely agree.
Thanks. But since the pay ships all make a mockery of the trinity system the rest of the ships are stuck with, I think the simplest solution is just to have Attack Patterns stop working for everything and have it energy weapons only. It would take less coding I assume.
But if they keep trinity play, then having bonuses to your career skills makes sense because otherwise the career paths mean nothing other than a couple of special attacks.
(Also, moving threat generation down the skill tree would help cruisers get better at what they are supposed to do. )
Just because YOU see a problem doesn't mean there is one. Besides, the real problem is how much better KDF Battlecrusiers are than Fed space whales.
I could not agree more, however, the Devs HATE the Fed side. The Feds get the good content, but the KDF get the cool/superior ships. (By superior I mean ships that have firepower AND can turn on a dime). The Feddies get more ships, most of which are inferior to their KDF counterparts. Quantity does not outweigh quality, at least in terms of starships.
Synergy is needed. The Grand Amalgamation is not the answer.
There is no one answer to making MMO combat work. I like Synergy in my Old Republic but would hate it in my STO (which, for the record, is not suffering as much from this amalgamation as you think it is), because the structure of both games is so different.
Old Republic has a lot of heavily scripted, heavily specific content that for the most part requires a lot of Trinity gameplay just to pass (just try completing a non-baby Flashpoint without a tank while not overleveled...ugh). And it could use a non-sucky group finder.
STO on the other hand at the endgame is about putting together large masses of players to quickly and repeatedly finish content on a regular basis. The current class system benefits this approach. If you don't like it or think it sucks, tough Targ Hearts. Better hope Cryptic has some Star Wars Galaxies style New Game Experience for you in the wings.
Not every game needs to mutate into a Wow/Everquest clone to be considered successful, thank you very much.
There is no one answer to making MMO combat work. I like Synergy in my Old Republic but would hate it in my STO (which, for the record, is not suffering as much from this amalgamation as you think it is), because the structure of both games is so different.
Old Republic has a lot of heavily scripted, heavily specific content that for the most part requires a lot of Trinity gameplay just to pass (just try completing a non-baby Flashpoint without a tank while not overleveled...ugh). And it could use a non-sucky group finder.
STO on the other hand at the endgame is about putting together large masses of players to quickly and repeatedly finish content on a regular basis. The current class system benefits this approach. If you don't like it or think it sucks, tough Targ Hearts. Better hope Cryptic has some Star Wars Galaxies style New Game Experience for you in the wings.
Not every game needs to mutate into a Wow/Everquest clone to be considered successful, thank you very much.
I'm not the one who has an continuing 'issue' with X ship or ability being overpowered and Y ship or ability being underpowered. Like you stated, the current class system works and while it may not be ideal it's far superior to transforming everything into a generic Biff the Understudy placeholder. No amount of incessant complaining on the part of the naysayers, who still log in to play it everyday, is going to change that. You just completely wasted a decent response on the wrong person.
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
I could not agree more, however, the Devs HATE the Fed side. The Feds get the good content, but the KDF get the cool/superior ships. (By superior I mean ships that have firepower AND can turn on a dime). The Feddies get more ships, most of which are inferior to their KDF counterparts. Quantity does not outweigh quality, at least in terms of starships.
Actually the mass of the greater quantity would far outweigh...
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
1. Escorts are not really OP, the rest is just UP (yet a good captain can do well in a crappy ship, equip makes a huge difference)
2. why not give bonus traits for sci in sci ships (and eng in cruisers) ?
PS: what does the silent majority ingame say? should have some polls upon logging in.
.o0( The gods of deutsch data recovery have prevailed! The techno will continue.)
This is in regards to PVP. In PVE I don't seem to have many issues.
You can either nerf escorts, or you can buff cruisers and science ships. I call for buffing cruisers and science ships. Give those ships an extra tactical boff slot, or another tactical console slot or both or increase the damage of beams on cruisers.
I'm an Engineer captain and I've tried the Patrol Escort, and it seems to work very well as a support attacker. It's not bad during 1on1s, but it certainly doesn't do the damage that a Tactical captain can do. I can kill people 1on1 with it, but it just takes longer and a little skill and good timing on using abilities, and this is with all Dual Heavy Cannons in the front XI or XII, turrets in the back, with my tactical consoles stacked with one damage type. Right now I'm using all Polarized Disruptors because it's what I have at the moment, and can't afford other stuff.
There needs to be a way to upgrade your current ship...
I have been an advocate of this for a very long time now, utilizing the crafting system in order to make it more viable.
On-Topic:
I don't think Escorts should be nerfed. I think VA science and engineering abilities should be buffed. As for the ships, possibly increase hull, or turn rate of cruisers and the inertia rate of science.
The only reason Escorts seem so 'op' is because they're easy mode to getting that firepower. You can get it just as well from a Cruiser or Sci vessel, if you actually bother to take the time and think about how you build your loadout and skills. Sometimes you're even deadlier.
I have been an advocate of this for a very long time now, utilizing the crafting system in order to make it more viable.
This could work, given that Crafting is currently worthless. Now parts require dilithium, so adding substantial ship upgrades (or at least new sets like the Aegis) would make the investment worthwhile (comparable to using dil to buy a Shipyard ship or a new tier 1-4 ship.
Comments
Solo its a stand alone ship in pve able to tank and take out any boss , not many ships can do that solo
The problem its out of reach to most players and a lot of players do not like its looks ect
There needs to be a way to upgrade your current ship to the best in its class ( cruisers )
For Zen so cryptic makes money making the programming time worth there while while also buffing cruisers and science ships to the level they need to be at
Your ship will still look like a Nebula but will have the best Boff layout weapon slots hull shield mods ect as the very best science ship in the game
Or the same for a cruiser
For a price let people fly the ship they want fully modernized for a number of fleet modules call the new ship the Mk-II for example
This would be very easy for cryptic to do because only changing numbers around on the models is needed no building of a new ship
To ask cryptic to revamp all of the science ships and cruisers to catch up to the escorts is something they will not do unless they can make money doing it is what i think
The escort is OP and far ahead of the cruisers and science ships in PvE , I fly a fleet defiant a fleet Excelsior and a Wells some of the best ships in their classes so i have experence in all the three classes as many of you do.
And you know there are a LOT of people who would spend money to fly the ship THEY want to play the game in if it was the best in its cass
everyone does not want to fly a escort A lot of people do not want to fly a alien ship
I bet cryptic isnt happy with the jem hadar ship sales either , sure dont see many being sold now do we
I think we have a glut of Op escorts and allien lock box OP ships
But nothing in the standard fed line other than a few escorts that is really game worthy
personally i think a lot of money can be made modernizing ships like the nebula ,galaxy and galaxy X
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
problem is it would end the power creep and be a one-time expense. If I could make my nebbie be as good as my wells. Believe me i would. But i wouldn't buy any other ships in STO ever, (D'deridex aside which i m buying no matter what stats it has).
So from their balance sheet perspective, having the most iconic ships be underperforming is working as intended. If people spend 200$ on the bug, it kills, but they would like to have a FEderation ship, they are more likely to buy the smurf, or the armitage on top of the bug.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
If this stuff would have been thought through better, the damage option might have been more appealing, but nearly every escort takes the heal.
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That was a bug, and it wouldn't have been fair to keep it just because they thought no one would notice. In fact, people did notice, which is why the bug was fixed in the first place.
Maybe adding in trait-like passive buffs to certain classes might help, but in my opinion that would only crystallize the existing constellation of builds and class combinations in service of the MMO trinity.
One of the cool things about STO's space combat is that almost any combination of class/ship is effective so long as you follow certain commonsense (sorta) "rules". Some things are without a doubt MORE effective than others, but for the most part it comes down to player skill and practice.
Gear, consoles and other gimmickry is icing on the cake and allows truly skilled players to distinguish themselves, with things like exotic builds and completing tasks crazy-quick.
It's true that the content isn't balanced and more needs to be done to reduce or mitigate the overemphasis on DPS, but in no case is the answer "hard nerfing". I'd prefer they change the STFs or make more STFs than to penalize portions of the playerbase.
And for the record, I like being able to complete ISE in almost any PUG so long as people know what they're doing, than wiping 15 times in a row playing Hammer Station in Old Republic because 1 person doesn't know how to tank properly (that happened to me just last week).
I wasn't suggesting leaving it in place, what I meant was that, whether it was a 'proper' fix or a nasty piece of work on the back end, no one playing the game would notice other than the different heal strength each ship class would have available to it.
However I have to admit that the Kumari, both now and before it was fixed, has been one of the most fun Escorts (for me, at least) to play in PvE because it is actually in danger of being destroyed by something other than a one shot. Fair enough, I can still clear an ISE without a respawn but whereas in my Fleet Defiant or MVAE that's not really anything special, in the Kumari it takes a lot more effort to stay in one piece.
True, it's also what I like and I'd hate to see a forced trinity in STO.
I don't believe a nerf is the answer either.
I still feel that one of the best things they could do with STO PvE is to remove the over reliance on kinetic damage from NPCs and switch them instead to sustained energy damage: an Escort can recover from any kinetic hit it survives as well as a Cruiser can because there's very little incoming damage in between hits (other than DoTs) but only a Cruiser or a Science ship would be able to hold up to constant 8 beam broadsides from a Tac Cube/ Negh'var/ other big Cruiser: those classes that are commonly complained about would have a purpose.
It might even make it a little less annoying when you die to a sustained attack as you can do something about it (fall back to recover or ask for heals/ resists) rather than the current one shots which serve no other purpose than to make sure everyone in the house knows that I know a lot of swear words.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
Look at it in combat and it spontaneously combusts. :cool:
What about carriers, destroyers and raiders? And NPC ships like cubes and spheres? Or transformers and other static space objects?
Critical Fumble! Your opponent effortlessly circles around your attack and pummels you on the back of the head. You are dazed for 1d3 rounds.
This is Star Trek science fiction not medieval(ish) high fantasy . You don't get a racial enemy here and your demand would not fit the system of such were that the case. Though one can surmise that repeated deaths could have a negative effect on your psyche. There is no bonus to attacks against ship class and no slaughtering of innocent kobolds.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
WHAT-IF the Devs created (3) versions of EVERY ship in-game? For example: A ship might have a variant with a 4th Tac Slot, another version with a 4th Sci slot (sacrificing a slot somewhere else), or say only 3 Device slots, a Hull decrease, +1-2 Turn and a + something for weapons.
For an Escort, change a Tac Boff slot to an Eng slot, or swap a Tac slot for a Sci slot. Maybe another version is a -3, or -5 turn for healing or Science ability.
The end result being EVERY SHIP would have 4 different versions. The current one, a heavy ENG based version, a heavy Sci version, and a heavy Tac version.
Perhaps taking the turn off an escort for something like healing or Sci a player may choose. Perhaps added weapons power or turning a Cruiser player may choose. Perhaps a Sci ship will be able to have an increased hull in exchange for something.
Take the current amount of Fed ships whatever it currently is and would X''s it by 3. This would take a TON of work on the Devs but the ship combinations would be so plentiful, the the game balance would return, I only see this as a game saving type of process long-term. Again, massive work on the Devs behalf, but for players it means unlimited options.....
I'm not saying LITERALLY hold me to exactly what was suggested for particular ships, I'm just using it as an example to showcase different variations of a certain ship to offset some of the in-balance of the game.
OK I'm done with my words. The trolls and haters can bring the nails, whips, and the cross now.
Yeah, that's already in-game.
Patrol Escort<>Advanced Escort
Star Cruiser<>Assault Cruiser
Reconnaissance Science<>Deep Space Science
You're also getting away from the issue at hand, which is that escorts are overwhelmingly better than their science vessel or cruiser counterparts. Tac and escort supporters, don't even try to debate this: escorts surpass either ship class in general combat capability. Don't try to make any excuses about healing or tanking or support either, because every ship class should have some way of being built to stand on its own legs, and not simply play second fiddle in a limited role.
I'm not sure how or even if we should address this issue in regards to escorts, but I would say that what the game may need is a broader ability buff/debuff counterbalance system in terms of science and engineering abilities, improved overall cruiser performance, and a rework of the current Tactical console system.
That way everyone can still access the skills, but Tac captains won't be killing everything with GW because Sci already took care of it. Nothing gets nerfed yet we still get the trinity play the game seems determined to force on everyone while only having one corner of it effective.
Isn't this Pay to Win? Temp Sci WELLs is not a free ship and doubt many SCI could do the same with a regular ship...years ago SCI used to rule STO until they got nerfed in favor of Tacts...no use crying over spill milk...just saying there needs to be more balanced for each career path :cool:
By far the best sound effects ever. Slightly sarcastic, but point is well taken. I completely agree.
Just because YOU see a problem doesn't mean there is one. Besides, the real problem is how much better KDF Battlecrusiers are than Fed space whales.
Buff Sci and Eng: Yes.
Never been a big fan of "Trinity" gameplay, but I'm probably in the minority so some thoughts...
Cruisers don't often tank properly, most seem to skimp on "Threat Control" and then wonder why their tank isn't tanking and feel useless so they respec to dps and feel even more useless. As far as PvE is concerned cruisers could use an innate aggro buff, and maybe an additional restricted slot for a 360 beam or turret. They should never out dps an escort but they should have more then 1 extra weapon hardpoint to work with. "look at the size of that thing!"
As for sci they have some "fun" abilities and anyone who's ever used full spread, CRF or FAW knows how awesome a powerful GW can be, and only a few escorts have the ability to make a t1 GW. Sci get's a lot of CC which is very effective when used properly, I'm not sure why people are unhappy with their sci's, they seem to fill their roll well. Maybe it's that their contributions are mostly invisible, it's often impossible to tell who's healing or even if your being healed in heavy combat. PvE leaderboards would be nice, something for players to brag about anyhow. "I haz the best healz"
Escorts: Are fine, massive burst dps in a glass wrapper. Even the most rugged escort is squishy if you can stop them long enough, you need to have more and better timed CC then the escort has "escapes", or withstand his first a pass or 2, catch one gassed out with things on CD... easy pickings.
This the majority of this should be taken from a PvE perspective, PvP is a different ballgame.
-Cheers
Thanks. But since the pay ships all make a mockery of the trinity system the rest of the ships are stuck with, I think the simplest solution is just to have Attack Patterns stop working for everything and have it energy weapons only. It would take less coding I assume.
But if they keep trinity play, then having bonuses to your career skills makes sense because otherwise the career paths mean nothing other than a couple of special attacks.
(Also, moving threat generation down the skill tree would help cruisers get better at what they are supposed to do. )
I could not agree more, however, the Devs HATE the Fed side. The Feds get the good content, but the KDF get the cool/superior ships. (By superior I mean ships that have firepower AND can turn on a dime). The Feddies get more ships, most of which are inferior to their KDF counterparts. Quantity does not outweigh quality, at least in terms of starships.
There is no one answer to making MMO combat work. I like Synergy in my Old Republic but would hate it in my STO (which, for the record, is not suffering as much from this amalgamation as you think it is), because the structure of both games is so different.
Old Republic has a lot of heavily scripted, heavily specific content that for the most part requires a lot of Trinity gameplay just to pass (just try completing a non-baby Flashpoint without a tank while not overleveled...ugh). And it could use a non-sucky group finder.
STO on the other hand at the endgame is about putting together large masses of players to quickly and repeatedly finish content on a regular basis. The current class system benefits this approach. If you don't like it or think it sucks, tough Targ Hearts. Better hope Cryptic has some Star Wars Galaxies style New Game Experience for you in the wings.
Not every game needs to mutate into a Wow/Everquest clone to be considered successful, thank you very much.
I'm not the one who has an continuing 'issue' with X ship or ability being overpowered and Y ship or ability being underpowered. Like you stated, the current class system works and while it may not be ideal it's far superior to transforming everything into a generic Biff the Understudy placeholder. No amount of incessant complaining on the part of the naysayers, who still log in to play it everyday, is going to change that. You just completely wasted a decent response on the wrong person.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
Actually the mass of the greater quantity would far outweigh...
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
Most ships people ask for, and also a lot of ships on the shows, were all cruisers. That's all that is.
just to throw in my 2 coppers.
1. Escorts are not really OP, the rest is just UP (yet a good captain can do well in a crappy ship, equip makes a huge difference)
2. why not give bonus traits for sci in sci ships (and eng in cruisers) ?
PS: what does the silent majority ingame say? should have some polls upon logging in.
You can either nerf escorts, or you can buff cruisers and science ships. I call for buffing cruisers and science ships. Give those ships an extra tactical boff slot, or another tactical console slot or both or increase the damage of beams on cruisers.
I'm an Engineer captain and I've tried the Patrol Escort, and it seems to work very well as a support attacker. It's not bad during 1on1s, but it certainly doesn't do the damage that a Tactical captain can do. I can kill people 1on1 with it, but it just takes longer and a little skill and good timing on using abilities, and this is with all Dual Heavy Cannons in the front XI or XII, turrets in the back, with my tactical consoles stacked with one damage type. Right now I'm using all Polarized Disruptors because it's what I have at the moment, and can't afford other stuff.
I have been an advocate of this for a very long time now, utilizing the crafting system in order to make it more viable.
On-Topic:
I don't think Escorts should be nerfed. I think VA science and engineering abilities should be buffed. As for the ships, possibly increase hull, or turn rate of cruisers and the inertia rate of science.
The only reason Escorts seem so 'op' is because they're easy mode to getting that firepower. You can get it just as well from a Cruiser or Sci vessel, if you actually bother to take the time and think about how you build your loadout and skills. Sometimes you're even deadlier.
This could work, given that Crafting is currently worthless. Now parts require dilithium, so adding substantial ship upgrades (or at least new sets like the Aegis) would make the investment worthwhile (comparable to using dil to buy a Shipyard ship or a new tier 1-4 ship.