No it doesn't make sense at all. Do you in your wildest dreams think that escort lovers will tolerate ships so fragile that they can't use their firepower, just so cruisers can live out a fantasy?
"I fly one, but I'm willing to have escorts nerfed out of existence! (giggle)" Disgustingly transparent, you are.
Again, PvE needs to be separated from PvP, just so we can have some peace in this game.
I agree escorts are a fantasy ( STO created Fantasy )
I agree PvE and PvP need to be seprated because they cannot be balenced together , its just impossible ,Balencing one unbalences the other
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
No it doesn't make sense at all. Do you in your wildest dreams think that escort lovers will tolerate ships so fragile that they can't use their firepower, just so cruisers can live out a fantasy?
"I fly one, but I'm willing to have escorts nerfed out of existence! (giggle)" Disgustingly transparent, you are.
Again, PvE needs to be separated from PvP, just so we can have some peace in this game.
Wow. You left so many holes in your argument. I will enjoy this.
Let's start here. First of all, escorts SHOULD have lower healing and regen abilities. Half of your heals comes from crew. Smaller crew should mean less repair ability, thus, less heals. The second part of your heals come from your deflector. Deflectors on escorts are much MUCH MUUUUUUCH smaller, and have far less power being diverted to them at any given time than any other ship class. And as such, their heals should be weaker. So yes, sorry to say, it does make sense using current game mechanics.
Do you in your wildest dreams think that escort lovers will tolerate ships so fragile that they can't use their firepower,
What makes you think escorts were supposed to be anything but fragile to begin with? As things are now, an escort can absorb nearly as much damage as a cruiser, the only disparity being about 20% hull and 15% shields. That's virtually NOTHING in a quick burst assault (which escorts specialize in), maybe one or two extra seconds TOPS. And besides, if this is implemented, that will just mean that escorts actually need other ship classes with them so that they can keep their high damage constantly on a target. Believe it or not, escorts are not the only class of ship in this game.
And you also made your largest mistake with this exact quote: "that escort lovers". News flash kid, not all players in this game are "escort lovers". Try thinking about other ship lovers to, ok?
Most cruiser pilots right now NEED to live in a fantasy in order to get over the fact that their ships are almost useless in most content, and even where they aren't useless, they are horribly gimped. So if anything, we're bringing cruisers back to reality by giving them a purpose that other ships cannot match/replicate (or more so of one than what currently exists).
Ex. Is there ANY ship better at dealing damage than an escort? Outside of only one or two other ships, no. Are there ANY ships better at crowd control and draining than a science ship? Outside of BoPs, no. Are there ANY ships better than a cruiser at healing and tanking (a null point, since tanks in this game are almost useless, again outside of very VERY specific circumstances)? Yes, many ships, at least as the healing department goes.
"I fly one, but I'm willing to have escorts nerfed out of existence! (giggle)" Disgustingly transparent, you are.
I fail to see how this will... how did you put it? "nerf escorts out of existence" was it? A reduction in heals that result in another ship class being necessary... um... ok. How exactly does that "nerf escorts out of existence"? You will still have your starting hull and shields, and you will still have the highest damage output in the game. Let's just say that this change will not remove escorts, just stop them from being able to "have their cake and eat it too", something cruiser pilots are constantly accused of wanting. Do you blame us? Escort pilots already have this. Why shouldn't we?
Also, I fly escorts. And I enjoy it thoroughly. But I also can see when there is an imbalance. And just because I choose to use them, does not mean that I will automatically support them. I am choosing instead to take a step back and actually look at them objectively, and ignore my enjoyment of their power. And yet you accuse me of... how did you put it? Ah yes, of being "disgustingly transparent". So apparently bothering to look past my own nose is "transparent". I will have to remember that one.
Again, PvE needs to be separated from PvP, just so we can have some peace in this game.
I honestly think this is the only point you and I agree on. But that's it.
So basically you took anger and brought it into your post, and you expect me to cow before your apparent might when in reality you have no grounds for your argument and your logic is faulty. My recommendation would be to chill out, and take a deep breath, before this turns into something like that other thread you started a month or two ago.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
dude your the one in a fantasy. Cruiser do fine. You just need the right build and skills.
I have already determined that 90% of what you say is hot air due to your inability to comprehend what canon is and give me your supposedly "un-killable cruiser" build. Sooo yeah. What you have to say is meaningless here.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
why is it always the cruiser captains,crying like a little boy who lost his sweetroll, for an escort nerf?
ask yourself this:
why do escorts need a nerf:
because i cant handle my cruiser?
because i dont have enough ec to buy decent gear?
or is it because i dont know anything about skills/boff skills?
escorts are not over powered.
the problem is cruiser captains who dont know how to fly there cruiser,dont have a good setup on it,or expect the same damage as from an escort.
most cruisers have beams,because they cant mount dhc,so dont think that youre beams will do the same damage as dhc's. and yes escorts can mount it,so yes escorts do more damage,but the defiant did also more damage as the galaxy from picard.
i see cruisers with skittle beams,and then they are crying help escorts need a nerf because i do not enough damage?
if you think you die to fast,or you dont do enough damage,check youre setup.
use youre skills when the time is ready,i saw a guy yesterday,using he1 when he didnt have plasma burn,he proberly needed a heal,and afer the he1 he got striked by a plasma torpedo,he got mad,because i died again.so use youre skills when the time is there to use them.
try a respec of your skill tree,that can make a huge difference.
and why do escorts look over powered,while they are not?
because of the timer in stf's
because of the timer its a dps race.
and yeah then it look like's the escorts are op.
because of the dhc's
and there speed.
why are cruisers good:
they can take massive damage.
they can control a crowd,while escorts need to focus on 1 enemy.
they can broadside,doing damage to all ships in range
everyone take's a stf as example,
but lets take another mission for example,one without a timer.
starbase fleet defense.
what i see there is this:
escorts doing damage,but getting killed by multiple enemy's.
escorts blowing into piece's because they cant handle that much enemy's
escorts trying to heal themselfs,and die while using epts 1,he1 and aux2sif1.
i see cruisers,doing broadside damage,with 8 beams,blowing up enemy's.
i see cruisers taking heavy critical damage,but still survive it,and going on with killing enemy's.
i see cruisers,healing the starbase with all there heals,taking damage,and waiting for the cooldown to heal themselfs.
try that in an escort!
when there is a timer,damage is king.
when there are multiple enemy's,tanking is king,wich are cruisers.
yeah a escort can take some damage,but cruiser can take far more damage.
its all about how you fly youre cruiser wich setup you have,how you spend youre skills.
and beside's that,i see cruisers doing 3500 damage each beam shot.
that is posseble,but when you do it right.
so stop complaining/crying/begging for a nerf,and start with getting a good setup,respeccing your skills the right way,redoing your boffs.
and before people say; you only fly cruisers. let me say this:
i have :
oddessy science (cruiser)
oddessy tactical (cruiser(
oddessy engineering (cruiser)
jem hadar dreadnought carrier. ( carrier,but in turn rate its almost the same as a cruiser)
breen chell grett class (hybrid)
fleet tactical escort retrofit (escort)
andorian charal class (escort)
with my oddessy class cruisers,i take a lot more damage as with my escorts.
and with beams on my cruisers,i do 3200 damage a shot,so its possible guys!
Most cruiser pilots right now NEED to live in a fantasy in order to get over the fact that their ships are almost useless in most content, and even where they aren't useless, they are horribly gimped. So if anything, we're bringing cruisers back to reality by giving them a purpose that other ships cannot match/replicate (or more so of one than what currently exists).
LOL that's true a fantasy world within a fantasy game just hilarious
why is it always the cruiser captains,crying like a little boy who lost his sweetroll, for an escort nerf?
ask yourself this:
why do escorts need a nerf:
because i cant handle my cruiser?
because i dont have enough ec to buy decent gear?
or is it because i dont know anything about skills/boff skills?
escorts are not over powered.
the problem is cruiser captains who dont know how to fly there cruiser,dont have a good setup on it,or expect the same damage as from an escort.
most cruisers have beams,because they cant mount dhc,so dont think that youre beams will do the same damage as dhc's. and yes escorts can mount it,so yes escorts do more damage,but the defiant did also more damage as the galaxy from picard.
i see cruisers with skittle beams,and then they are crying help escorts need a nerf because i do not enough damage?
Yeah I seen tac/escorts captain who are like blindfolded with zero perceptions around themselves, and type posts that dont hold any water, and what about your skill it must be horrible when cruiser gotcha lol .You Tac/escort dudes cry every time when a eng or sci captains gets them and say nerf this and that skill
"it makes us vulnerable" btw even if I could put on my ship DHC I wouldn't use them .....
Well my cruiser can tank a Tactical cube on Elite STFs. My escort dies in 20 seconds.
So yeah. If you have a problem with your cruisers, its your own damn fault for being a noob.
You can all take advice and try to improve, or you can just keep crying here for a single ship with the most health, shields, damage, speed.... hey, why not make your ship receive more dilithium and energy credits too?
And why should it not generate 50 zen every hour to be even better and make you the most awesome person ever?
Wait...why not give you an "I win" button and make your ship invincible? Wait... I am giving people ideas, am I not? I should stop.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
why is it always the cruiser captains,crying like a little boy who lost his sweetroll, for an escort nerf?
ask yourself this:
why do escorts need a nerf:
because i cant handle my cruiser?
because i dont have enough ec to buy decent gear?
or is it because i dont know anything about skills/boff skills?
escorts are not over powered.
the problem is cruiser captains who dont know how to fly there cruiser,dont have a good setup on it,or expect the same damage as from an escort.
incorrect , you may need some more skills in a escort
it appears you need better setup or a respec or better gear
most cruisers have beams,because they cant mount dhc,so dont think that youre beams will do the same damage as dhc's. and yes escorts can mount it,so yes escorts do more damage,but the defiant did also more damage as the galaxy from picard.
No incorrect the defiant never came close to the damage output of a galaxy class
The Galaxy had double the armamnet of the excelsior
A Excelsior defeated the defiant
i see cruisers with skittle beams,and then they are crying help escorts need a nerf because i do not enough damage?
if you think you die to fast,or you dont do enough damage,check youre setup.
use youre skills when the time is ready,i saw a guy yesterday,using he1 when he didnt have plasma burn,he proberly needed a heal,and afer the he1 he got striked by a plasma torpedo,he got mad,because i died again.so use youre skills when the time is there to use them.
try a respec of your skill tree,that can make a huge difference.
and why do escorts look over powered,while they are not?
because of the timer in stf's
because of the timer its a dps race.
and yeah then it look like's the escorts are op.
because of the dhc's
and there speed.
Bingo you got one right
why are cruisers good:
they can take massive damage.
they can control a crowd,while escorts need to focus on 1 enemy.
Incorrect ,learn another skill besides CRF
they can broadside,doing damage to all ships in range
so can a escort with 3X the firepower
everyone take's a stf as example,
but lets take another mission for example,one without a timer.
starbase fleet defense.
Who cares its a poor mission with little to no reward
what i see there is this:
escorts doing damage,but getting killed by multiple enemy's.
escorts blowing into piece's because they cant handle that much enemy's
escorts trying to heal themselfs,and die while using epts 1,he1 and aux2sif1.
These escorts have poor builds and general lack of skills then
i see cruisers,doing broadside damage,with 8 beams,blowing up enemy's.
i see cruisers taking heavy critical damage,but still survive it,and going on with killing enemy's.
i see cruisers,healing the starbase with all there heals,taking damage,and waiting for the cooldown to heal themselfs.
try that in an escort!
its easy we do it all the time ,however the base almost never gets touched now
when there is a timer,damage is king.
when there are multiple enemy's,tanking is king,wich are cruisers.
yeah a escort can take some damage,but cruiser can take far more damage.
its all about how you fly youre cruiser wich setup you have,how you spend youre skills.
and beside's that,i see cruisers doing 3500 damage each beam shot.
that is posseble,but when you do it right.
so stop complaining/crying/begging for a nerf,and start with getting a good setup,respeccing your skills the right way,redoing your boffs.
and before people say; you only fly cruisers. let me say this:
i have :
oddessy science (cruiser)
oddessy tactical (cruiser(
oddessy engineering (cruiser)
jem hadar dreadnought carrier. ( carrier,but in turn rate its almost the same as a cruiser)
breen chell grett class (hybrid)
fleet tactical escort retrofit (escort)
andorian charal class (escort)
with my oddessy class cruisers,i take a lot more damage as with my escorts.
and with beams on my cruisers,i do 3200 damage a shot,so its possible guys!
With plasma hyperflux i can get into 4k hits from my fleet excelsior for a few seconds but its 3 minutes before its ready again , with advanced fleet beams you can hit in the 1 k range with 4 tac consoles fully skilled in energy weapons
To get more requires buffs or BO skills or character ( Tac ) skills Or Doff mission rewards
its not uncommon for me to hit in the 12k range in my escort not counting crits which can be ulgy
Heriticknight flys cruisers and escorts and may have forgot more skills than many here have ever known , you must be new to the forum or have been gone a long time
After reading your post many times i believe you need to play a few stfs on elite and do a few SB-24s in your escort because if your performance is so low you dont know the difference in damage between a cruiser and a escort man you are really rusty
The most rewarding content is timed/DPS content in PvE
Thats why my Dilithium Farmers all fly Escorts , not only are they the best but they are so superior they can pull a incomptent Pug team thru a STF singlehanded to get the reward
This is also why cruisers and sci ships need a dPS bost in PvE
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Well my cruiser can tank a Tactical cube on Elite STFs. My escort dies in 20 seconds.
So yeah. If you have a problem with your cruisers, its your own damn fault for being a noob.
You can all take advice and try to improve, or you can just keep crying here for a single ship with the most health, shields, damage, speed.... hey, why not make your ship receive more dilithium and energy credits too?
And why should it not generate 50 zen every hour to be even better and make you the most awesome person ever?
Wait...why not give you an "I win" button and make your ship invincible? Wait... I am giving people ideas, am I not? I should stop.
I have a fleet tactical escort retrofit on my tac captain, and so you know I tank like a pro against cubes event tac one and a kill them off too no problem dps dps freak . Everything I do I do 3 times better and when I see 20 sec blow up posts,and I pro you noob you have bad skill I just go lol :eek:
The problem with cruisers and science vessels lies in Engineering and Science abilities. One of the Galaxy-R's biggest problems is that it's loaded with Engineering Boff slots -- the same number of Engineering slots that the Defiant-R has in Tactical slots, incidentally. If Eng and Sci abilities were better, then those ships would be better.
I once suggested that they add an Engineering ability that boosts weapon performance based on the amount of crew a ship has, with huge dropoffs after 1,000. I don't think anyone replied to that, but it was just me spitballing out some ways to fix some issues.
Another huge problem facing the game is Power Creep. We've been playing the same. damn. STFs for years now, but our ships have become more and more powerful, as has our gear. Fleet ships added more durability and more console slots, but the content remained as challenging as it ever was. We're blasting through ESTFs with no challenge, and no incentive to seek out challenge (this is a biggie!). Our benchmark for challenge in this game is essentially ISE, since most people just do that once and hour instead of doing more challenging content like CSE pugs, or even Hive.
Cryptic needs to either add new, non-Borg STFs, or find some way to lure us into more challenging content. Right now our MkXII weapons and full MACO/Omega Force/whatever sets are going to waste on easy stuff because we have no reason to do anything else.
Another issue is that there's no enforcing of the Heal-Tank-DPS trinity in this game. It's so DPS focused without requiring any support. Of course Tac/Escorts will rule this game, when there's nothing for anyone else to do.
In short, escorts aren't the problem -- the rest of the game is. I admit, that sounds dumb on its face, but it's true.
agreed, it sound stupid to say that the game needs to change, but it is spot on the problem of sto. There is far too less need for a tank or a sci ship in this game.
personally i would have made ships in STO like heros in DOTA or LOL...inherent abilities that are unique to the ship. STO tries to implement that via consoles, but imho fails at it.
Surprisingly they the ground combat (mainly the way kits work) have similarities to dota heros.
Also an interesting idea would be a pvp scenario like dota
I have a fleet tactical escort retrofit on my tac captain, and so you know I tank like a pro against cubes event tac one and a kill them off too no problem dps dps freak . Everything I do I do 3 times better and when I see 20 sec blow up posts,and I pro you noob you have bad skill I just go lol :eek:
I am sorry that I am less awesome then you. Still, even such a humble and bad player as I can be useful with a cruiser in an elite STF.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
The only escort nerfs I would call for are to the majorly stupidly powerful skills, AP:A, GDF and AP:O
AP:A: Breaks all sci effectiveness as it is the only way to get sci effectiveness, needs sci buffing removed
GDF: See AP:A
AP:O: Immunity to ALL movement debuffs (goodbye all escort weaknesses), needs that removing
That is all then bring all EPtX buffs up to match EPtS (such that EPtW becomes a direct counter giving Cruisers what they need to counter escorts newfound survivability) and across the board sci buff...
agreed, it sound stupid to say that the game needs to change, but it is spot on the problem of sto. There is far too less need for a tank or a sci ship in this game.
imo the need for tanking and sci is not too low. imo the problem lies, that sci and tanking cannot be done well in other ships. as in cruisers cannot tank better enough to make a difference, and make them worth playing. you blow up by a 50k torp hit in an escort? you gonna probably die from that in a cruiser too. you want grav well on the field? put gw1 in one of the escorts, and its enough for all intents and purposes in pve, no need for fancy sci ships to create stronger ones, or the ones that are stronger, they dont make much difference, to need a sci for that
The problem isn't so much that there's less need to tank, but that everyone can tank so damn easily. For general NPC's you don't even need to hit a buff. For elite STF NPCs A simple EPTS and TT is enough to resist most damage and for the more powerful damage you can just hit TSS and maybe RSP if you really need it.
At this point the only way Cryptic can get an NPC to kill an experienced captain in an escort, is by having the NPC do ridiculous spike damage that'd one shot a cruiser just as easily.
They've messed up the balance so badly that some of my escorts actually have thicker shields than some fleet cruisers (mostly thanks to turning field generators into science consoles and making them stack). Pop some jevonite armour and I'd actually have more hull than a cruiser.
Don't even get me started on how effortless the Borg set heal proc makes the game.
I'm an escort captain and have been for two years.
i see cruisers,doing broadside damage,with 8 beams,blowing up enemy's.
Meanwhile you can have an escort broadsiding with 7 beams and doing more damage due to weapon buffs. Damage wise anything a cruiser can do an escort can do miles better.
i see cruisers taking heavy critical damage,but still survive it,and going on with killing enemy's.
Which is just as easily done in an escort.
i see cruisers,healing the starbase with all there heals,taking damage,and waiting for the cooldown to heal themselfs.
Nope got me there, that's about all a cruiser is worth.
Wow. You left so many holes in your argument. I will enjoy this.
An this is just your first mistake. I argue nothing, what I express here is my opinion, and you'll have to live with that, timmy.
Let me compress this dirge of yours, in the interest of not boring our fellow readers. There is no way you can dance your way into taking something from me to make yourself feel better for choosing a class of ship you don't like. Since Cryptic is on my side in this, there's something else you'll have to live with.
My recommendation would be to chill out, and take a deep breath, before this turns into something like that other thread you started a month or two ago.
You're funny! I've got what I want, an ample selection of powerful, just fragile enough escorts, while you're reduced to wishing on a star for something that isn't going to happen. That being true, the self-aggrandizing tripe quoted above is just you trying to project your insecurites on me. Thanks for TRYING to play, son.
I have already determined that 90% of what you say is hot air due to your inability to comprehend what canon is and give me your supposedly "un-killable cruiser" build. Sooo yeah. What you have to say is meaningless here.
I never said it was unkilliable. It can be killed. I'm saying the whole escort arguement is TRIBBLE for my ship proves it. And what do i see in STFs? A combo of Escorts, Cruisers, and Carriers. Not all escorts (unless it's a team already). You may debate my opinion on JJ Wreck gut in this I'm talking from experience. Benn here late S5. Mainly played an escort (armitage) during S6. When S7 came I found out how vunerable my escort was in elite STF. So I switch back to GalX and boom died less and did more. Heck I brought my neghvar out again for kicks and was surprised how good she was. SO someone is crappy in a cruiser, that person hasn't learned how to use the cruiser nor gave it the right build. Escorts are easy for noobies for guarantee of damage, which should be there for they are an escort. But any ship or class can be beaten by a good build and a skilled player.
An this is just your first mistake. I argue nothing, what I express here is my opinion, and you'll have to live with that, timmy.
Let me compress this dirge of yours, in the interest of not boring our fellow readers. There is no way you can dance your way into taking something from me to make yourself feel better for choosing a class of ship you don't like. Since Cryptic is on my side in this, there's something else you'll have to live with.
You're funny! I've got what I want, an ample selection of powerful, just fragile enough escorts, while you're reduced to wishing on a star for something that isn't going to happen. That being true, the self-aggrandizing tripe quoted above is just you trying to project your insecurites on me. Thanks for TRYING to play, son.
Heh... I had forgotten how overly gifted in a lack of intelligence you were. Obviously logic and reason have no sway over that... I guess you can call it a brain that happens to inhabit the space between your ears, so I will simply say yes, you are right, escorts aren't OP and should be the only ship in this game.
However, you were still pwned. Just sit in your corner and accept that.
I never said it was unkilliable. It can be killed. I'm saying the whole escort arguement is TRIBBLE for my ship proves it. And what do i see in STFs? A combo of Escorts, Cruisers, and Carriers. Not all escorts (unless it's a team already). You may debate my opinion on JJ Wreck gut in this I'm talking from experience. Benn here late S5. Mainly played an escort (armitage) during S6. When S7 came I found out how vunerable my escort was in elite STF. So I switch back to GalX and boom died less and did more. Heck I brought my neghvar out again for kicks and was surprised how good she was. SO someone is crappy in a cruiser, that person hasn't learned how to use the cruiser nor gave it the right build. Escorts are easy for noobies for guarantee of damage, which should be there for they are an escort. But any ship or class can be beaten by a good build and a skilled player.
GAME,SET,MATCH
"Game, Set, Match". You funny guy you. And if your escorts can't take what your failnaught can, then that's your problem. My Fleet Defiant can tank a tac cube indefinitely, as can my fleet patrol escort, as can ANY escort I fly. They can tank ANYTHING the game throws at me. It's stupid really. However, since you are like Mr. Chuckingram above, I will simply say yes, you are correct, and your own arrogance and stupidity are blinding you to logic, and I will simply bow down to your ineptitude.
Good day.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
My Fleet Defiant can tank a tac cube indefinitely, as can my fleet patrol escort, as can ANY escort I fly. They can tank ANYTHING the game throws at me.
And therein lies the problem. With Escorts doing ludicrously more damage than any other type of ship in the game while easily tanking anything the game throws at you...does nobody see the glaring design flaw here?
Heh... I had forgotten how overly gifted in a lack of intelligence you were. Obviously logic and reason have no sway over that... I guess you can call it a brain that happens to inhabit the space between your ears, so I will simply say yes, you are right, escorts aren't OP and should be the only ship in this game.
However, you were still pwned. Just sit in your corner and accept that.
"Game, Set, Match". You funny guy you. And if your escorts can't take what your failnaught can, then that's your problem. My Fleet Defiant can tank a tac cube indefinitely, as can my fleet patrol escort, as can ANY escort I fly. They can tank ANYTHING the game throws at me. It's stupid really. However, since you are like Mr. Chuckingram above, I will simply say yes, you are correct, and your own arrogance and stupidity are blinding you to logic, and I will simply bow down to your ineptitude.
Good day.
Failnaught please I can do the same thing toa tac as well so guess what. YOU'RE WRONG!
people that think escorts need a nerf need to L2P, its not that they are op, its that they have not been marginalized as hard as everything else with the inclusion of new sets, passives, shields, and consoles.
if you clamor for and love all these new additions, well you love what has made cruisers so useless at dealing damage. the more you enthusiastically respond to their addition, the more cryptic will add, and the less effective non escorts will become.
tac captains and escorts, save for the bug and andorian, are fine as is. they are not OP, they simply work well, and are not effected as much as the other 2 ship types by all the defensive additions. the answer is a buff to non DHC weapons, if escorts were nerfed nothing would ever die, healing is 2 to 3 times more powerful then DPS right now
if escorts were nerfed nothing would ever die, healing is 2 to 3 times more powerful then DPS right now
Sci cannot be de-nerfed until AP:A and GDF are changed to not buff sci damage (Would be seen by the escort crowd as a nerf to them)
Also Escorts have AP:O to make them immune to their primary weaknesses which needs to be fixed to give the other two a fighting chance (HUGE nerf to escorts)
BOTH of these are MUSTS if balance is to be restored...
And therein lies the problem. With Escorts doing ludicrously more damage than any other type of ship in the game while easily tanking anything the game throws at you...does nobody see the glaring design flaw here?
Cruiser and Science can tank all that too just as long if not longer. Its not hard thing to do sitting on high shield power and cycling your resists and self heals.
I have never seen an escort sit and tank and live for long in combat.
I have seen them zip and zing around alot while tanking but thats one of thier strengths.
Take that movement away, keep them focused upon with fire and dont let them stay behind you and they die quickly. Especially when thier limited heals run out and thier moving defense is nullified.
Thats not say beams dont need a fix or that cruisers couldnt use a turn buff, but escorts are not near the godlike ships that many think they are in STO.
Sci cannot be de-nerfed until AP:A and GDF are changed to not buff sci damage (Would be seen by the escort crowd as a nerf to them)
Also Escorts have AP:O to make them immune to their primary weaknesses which needs to be fixed to give the other two a fighting chance (HUGE nerf to escorts)
BOTH of these are MUSTS if balance is to be restored...
I agree hat science should not be buffed by ApA or GDF.
I can agree that ApO doesnt need movement protection like PH, but thats all I think it needs removed. Everything else os fne about it.
What fairy boots of movement?
ApO? A power that many cruisers can use and cycle undrr a good build.
High engine power? Not just escorts use it. Anyone can infact.
High turn rates? Hardly a game winning stat on its own. Especially since one can boost it with consoles, equipment and skilling.
Good throttle control is worth more than all those above.
The only thing that make Escorts hard to kill is trying to slow them to negate thier speed and overcoming the skill of the pilot who may not panic under fire and use his heals to save himself.
Sci cannot be de-nerfed until AP:A and GDF are changed to not buff sci damage (Would be seen by the escort crowd as a nerf to them)
Also Escorts have AP:O to make them immune to their primary weaknesses which needs to be fixed to give the other two a fighting chance (HUGE nerf to escorts)
BOTH of these are MUSTS if balance is to be restored...
tac buffs buffing some sci skills has nothing to do with anything, and effects CC ability in exactly 0 way. its not even that potent of damage, and trading the sci captain skills for that inconsequential extra damage is a very poor trade. SNB and scan are 100 times more deadly then tac buffed TBR.
tac captains should deal the most damage no mater what. and they do currently, but have no bonus to healing, defense or control. you need a balance of all that for team success. tac skills buffing some sci station powers is completely harmonious as is.
APO is fine, its a very strong defensive and offensive measure, but it isn't on all the time, and it can be abruptly taken away, thanks to sci captains. then escort with the bloated survivability that it has gotten from all the new items and passives will go back to being as fragile as an escort was on launch day. an escorts defense nowadays is very on or off, and if you stop faceroling spacebar long enough to time your attacks based on periods of weakness, you might actually get somewhere.
your never going to succeed in pvp if you cant exploit cooldowns and spike, or have healing layers that overlap and can counter incoming damage and debuffs, or have overlaping CC that can completely juggle a target so they are helpless for an extended period of time. im sure an escort seems invincible if you cant do any of this. and its true it is tougher to damage then it used to be, but that goes for everything, not just escorts. that supposed immunity is why you need sci captains, good sci captains not stupidly obsessed with dealing damage, and jealous of tac captains dealing more damage then them with THEIR sci skills. sci captains that can set up that target to die, so the tacs on the team can do their job of simply issuing DPS.
Comments
I agree escorts are a fantasy ( STO created Fantasy )
I agree PvE and PvP need to be seprated because they cannot be balenced together , its just impossible ,Balencing one unbalences the other
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Yup, a well-established "STO created fantasy," unlike cruisers that turn on a time and have 5 tac console firepower.
Wow. You left so many holes in your argument. I will enjoy this.
Let's start here. First of all, escorts SHOULD have lower healing and regen abilities. Half of your heals comes from crew. Smaller crew should mean less repair ability, thus, less heals. The second part of your heals come from your deflector. Deflectors on escorts are much MUCH MUUUUUUCH smaller, and have far less power being diverted to them at any given time than any other ship class. And as such, their heals should be weaker. So yes, sorry to say, it does make sense using current game mechanics.
What makes you think escorts were supposed to be anything but fragile to begin with? As things are now, an escort can absorb nearly as much damage as a cruiser, the only disparity being about 20% hull and 15% shields. That's virtually NOTHING in a quick burst assault (which escorts specialize in), maybe one or two extra seconds TOPS. And besides, if this is implemented, that will just mean that escorts actually need other ship classes with them so that they can keep their high damage constantly on a target. Believe it or not, escorts are not the only class of ship in this game.
And you also made your largest mistake with this exact quote: "that escort lovers". News flash kid, not all players in this game are "escort lovers". Try thinking about other ship lovers to, ok?
Most cruiser pilots right now NEED to live in a fantasy in order to get over the fact that their ships are almost useless in most content, and even where they aren't useless, they are horribly gimped. So if anything, we're bringing cruisers back to reality by giving them a purpose that other ships cannot match/replicate (or more so of one than what currently exists).
Ex. Is there ANY ship better at dealing damage than an escort? Outside of only one or two other ships, no. Are there ANY ships better at crowd control and draining than a science ship? Outside of BoPs, no. Are there ANY ships better than a cruiser at healing and tanking (a null point, since tanks in this game are almost useless, again outside of very VERY specific circumstances)? Yes, many ships, at least as the healing department goes.
I fail to see how this will... how did you put it? "nerf escorts out of existence" was it? A reduction in heals that result in another ship class being necessary... um... ok. How exactly does that "nerf escorts out of existence"? You will still have your starting hull and shields, and you will still have the highest damage output in the game. Let's just say that this change will not remove escorts, just stop them from being able to "have their cake and eat it too", something cruiser pilots are constantly accused of wanting. Do you blame us? Escort pilots already have this. Why shouldn't we?
Also, I fly escorts. And I enjoy it thoroughly. But I also can see when there is an imbalance. And just because I choose to use them, does not mean that I will automatically support them. I am choosing instead to take a step back and actually look at them objectively, and ignore my enjoyment of their power. And yet you accuse me of... how did you put it? Ah yes, of being "disgustingly transparent". So apparently bothering to look past my own nose is "transparent". I will have to remember that one.
I honestly think this is the only point you and I agree on. But that's it.
So basically you took anger and brought it into your post, and you expect me to cow before your apparent might when in reality you have no grounds for your argument and your logic is faulty. My recommendation would be to chill out, and take a deep breath, before this turns into something like that other thread you started a month or two ago.
I have already determined that 90% of what you say is hot air due to your inability to comprehend what canon is and give me your supposedly "un-killable cruiser" build. Sooo yeah. What you have to say is meaningless here.
why is it always the cruiser captains,crying like a little boy who lost his sweetroll, for an escort nerf?
ask yourself this:
why do escorts need a nerf:
because i cant handle my cruiser?
because i dont have enough ec to buy decent gear?
or is it because i dont know anything about skills/boff skills?
escorts are not over powered.
the problem is cruiser captains who dont know how to fly there cruiser,dont have a good setup on it,or expect the same damage as from an escort.
most cruisers have beams,because they cant mount dhc,so dont think that youre beams will do the same damage as dhc's. and yes escorts can mount it,so yes escorts do more damage,but the defiant did also more damage as the galaxy from picard.
i see cruisers with skittle beams,and then they are crying help escorts need a nerf because i do not enough damage?
if you think you die to fast,or you dont do enough damage,check youre setup.
use youre skills when the time is ready,i saw a guy yesterday,using he1 when he didnt have plasma burn,he proberly needed a heal,and afer the he1 he got striked by a plasma torpedo,he got mad,because i died again.so use youre skills when the time is there to use them.
try a respec of your skill tree,that can make a huge difference.
and why do escorts look over powered,while they are not?
because of the timer in stf's
because of the timer its a dps race.
and yeah then it look like's the escorts are op.
because of the dhc's
and there speed.
why are cruisers good:
they can take massive damage.
they can control a crowd,while escorts need to focus on 1 enemy.
they can broadside,doing damage to all ships in range
everyone take's a stf as example,
but lets take another mission for example,one without a timer.
starbase fleet defense.
what i see there is this:
escorts doing damage,but getting killed by multiple enemy's.
escorts blowing into piece's because they cant handle that much enemy's
escorts trying to heal themselfs,and die while using epts 1,he1 and aux2sif1.
i see cruisers,doing broadside damage,with 8 beams,blowing up enemy's.
i see cruisers taking heavy critical damage,but still survive it,and going on with killing enemy's.
i see cruisers,healing the starbase with all there heals,taking damage,and waiting for the cooldown to heal themselfs.
try that in an escort!
when there is a timer,damage is king.
when there are multiple enemy's,tanking is king,wich are cruisers.
yeah a escort can take some damage,but cruiser can take far more damage.
its all about how you fly youre cruiser wich setup you have,how you spend youre skills.
and beside's that,i see cruisers doing 3500 damage each beam shot.
that is posseble,but when you do it right.
so stop complaining/crying/begging for a nerf,and start with getting a good setup,respeccing your skills the right way,redoing your boffs.
and before people say; you only fly cruisers. let me say this:
i have :
oddessy science (cruiser)
oddessy tactical (cruiser(
oddessy engineering (cruiser)
jem hadar dreadnought carrier. ( carrier,but in turn rate its almost the same as a cruiser)
breen chell grett class (hybrid)
fleet tactical escort retrofit (escort)
andorian charal class (escort)
with my oddessy class cruisers,i take a lot more damage as with my escorts.
and with beams on my cruisers,i do 3200 damage a shot,so its possible guys!
LOL that's true a fantasy world within a fantasy game just hilarious
Yeah I seen tac/escorts captain who are like blindfolded with zero perceptions around themselves, and type posts that dont hold any water, and what about your skill it must be horrible when cruiser gotcha lol .You Tac/escort dudes cry every time when a eng or sci captains gets them and say nerf this and that skill
"it makes us vulnerable"
So yeah. If you have a problem with your cruisers, its your own damn fault for being a noob.
You can all take advice and try to improve, or you can just keep crying here for a single ship with the most health, shields, damage, speed.... hey, why not make your ship receive more dilithium and energy credits too?
And why should it not generate 50 zen every hour to be even better and make you the most awesome person ever?
Wait...why not give you an "I win" button and make your ship invincible? Wait... I am giving people ideas, am I not? I should stop.
With plasma hyperflux i can get into 4k hits from my fleet excelsior for a few seconds but its 3 minutes before its ready again , with advanced fleet beams you can hit in the 1 k range with 4 tac consoles fully skilled in energy weapons
To get more requires buffs or BO skills or character ( Tac ) skills Or Doff mission rewards
its not uncommon for me to hit in the 12k range in my escort not counting crits which can be ulgy
Heriticknight flys cruisers and escorts and may have forgot more skills than many here have ever known , you must be new to the forum or have been gone a long time
After reading your post many times i believe you need to play a few stfs on elite and do a few SB-24s in your escort because if your performance is so low you dont know the difference in damage between a cruiser and a escort man you are really rusty
The most rewarding content is timed/DPS content in PvE
Thats why my Dilithium Farmers all fly Escorts , not only are they the best but they are so superior they can pull a incomptent Pug team thru a STF singlehanded to get the reward
This is also why cruisers and sci ships need a dPS bost in PvE
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I have a fleet tactical escort retrofit on my tac captain, and so you know I tank like a pro against cubes event tac one
agreed, it sound stupid to say that the game needs to change, but it is spot on the problem of sto. There is far too less need for a tank or a sci ship in this game.
personally i would have made ships in STO like heros in DOTA or LOL...inherent abilities that are unique to the ship. STO tries to implement that via consoles, but imho fails at it.
Surprisingly they the ground combat (mainly the way kits work) have similarities to dota heros.
Also an interesting idea would be a pvp scenario like dota
I am sorry that I am less awesome then you. Still, even such a humble and bad player as I can be useful with a cruiser in an elite STF.
AP:A: Breaks all sci effectiveness as it is the only way to get sci effectiveness, needs sci buffing removed
GDF: See AP:A
AP:O: Immunity to ALL movement debuffs (goodbye all escort weaknesses), needs that removing
That is all then bring all EPtX buffs up to match EPtS (such that EPtW becomes a direct counter giving Cruisers what they need to counter escorts newfound survivability) and across the board sci buff...
I think that's fair...
imo the need for tanking and sci is not too low. imo the problem lies, that sci and tanking cannot be done well in other ships. as in cruisers cannot tank better enough to make a difference, and make them worth playing. you blow up by a 50k torp hit in an escort? you gonna probably die from that in a cruiser too. you want grav well on the field? put gw1 in one of the escorts, and its enough for all intents and purposes in pve, no need for fancy sci ships to create stronger ones, or the ones that are stronger, they dont make much difference, to need a sci for that
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
At this point the only way Cryptic can get an NPC to kill an experienced captain in an escort, is by having the NPC do ridiculous spike damage that'd one shot a cruiser just as easily.
They've messed up the balance so badly that some of my escorts actually have thicker shields than some fleet cruisers (mostly thanks to turning field generators into science consoles and making them stack). Pop some jevonite armour and I'd actually have more hull than a cruiser.
Don't even get me started on how effortless the Borg set heal proc makes the game.
They need to tone almost EVERYTHING down.
I'm an escort captain and have been for two years.
Meanwhile you can have an escort broadsiding with 7 beams and doing more damage due to weapon buffs. Damage wise anything a cruiser can do an escort can do miles better.
Which is just as easily done in an escort.
Nope got me there, that's about all a cruiser is worth.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
An this is just your first mistake. I argue nothing, what I express here is my opinion, and you'll have to live with that, timmy.
Let me compress this dirge of yours, in the interest of not boring our fellow readers. There is no way you can dance your way into taking something from me to make yourself feel better for choosing a class of ship you don't like. Since Cryptic is on my side in this, there's something else you'll have to live with.
It's a fake!
I never said it was unkilliable. It can be killed. I'm saying the whole escort arguement is TRIBBLE for my ship proves it. And what do i see in STFs? A combo of Escorts, Cruisers, and Carriers. Not all escorts (unless it's a team already). You may debate my opinion on JJ Wreck gut in this I'm talking from experience. Benn here late S5. Mainly played an escort (armitage) during S6. When S7 came I found out how vunerable my escort was in elite STF. So I switch back to GalX and boom died less and did more. Heck I brought my neghvar out again for kicks and was surprised how good she was. SO someone is crappy in a cruiser, that person hasn't learned how to use the cruiser nor gave it the right build. Escorts are easy for noobies for guarantee of damage, which should be there for they are an escort. But any ship or class can be beaten by a good build and a skilled player.
GAME,SET,MATCH
Heh... I had forgotten how overly gifted in a lack of intelligence you were. Obviously logic and reason have no sway over that... I guess you can call it a brain that happens to inhabit the space between your ears, so I will simply say yes, you are right, escorts aren't OP and should be the only ship in this game.
However, you were still pwned. Just sit in your corner and accept that.
"Game, Set, Match". You funny guy you. And if your escorts can't take what your failnaught can, then that's your problem. My Fleet Defiant can tank a tac cube indefinitely, as can my fleet patrol escort, as can ANY escort I fly. They can tank ANYTHING the game throws at me. It's stupid really. However, since you are like Mr. Chuckingram above, I will simply say yes, you are correct, and your own arrogance and stupidity are blinding you to logic, and I will simply bow down to your ineptitude.
Good day.
more to the game than dps you know. although i do love my dps..mmm sweet creamy dps..
And therein lies the problem. With Escorts doing ludicrously more damage than any other type of ship in the game while easily tanking anything the game throws at you...does nobody see the glaring design flaw here?
Failnaught please I can do the same thing toa tac as well so guess what. YOU'RE WRONG!
if you clamor for and love all these new additions, well you love what has made cruisers so useless at dealing damage. the more you enthusiastically respond to their addition, the more cryptic will add, and the less effective non escorts will become.
tac captains and escorts, save for the bug and andorian, are fine as is. they are not OP, they simply work well, and are not effected as much as the other 2 ship types by all the defensive additions. the answer is a buff to non DHC weapons, if escorts were nerfed nothing would ever die, healing is 2 to 3 times more powerful then DPS right now
Sci cannot be de-nerfed until AP:A and GDF are changed to not buff sci damage (Would be seen by the escort crowd as a nerf to them)
Also Escorts have AP:O to make them immune to their primary weaknesses which needs to be fixed to give the other two a fighting chance (HUGE nerf to escorts)
BOTH of these are MUSTS if balance is to be restored...
I have never seen an escort sit and tank and live for long in combat.
I have seen them zip and zing around alot while tanking but thats one of thier strengths.
Take that movement away, keep them focused upon with fire and dont let them stay behind you and they die quickly. Especially when thier limited heals run out and thier moving defense is nullified.
Thats not say beams dont need a fix or that cruisers couldnt use a turn buff, but escorts are not near the godlike ships that many think they are in STO.
R.I.P
I agree hat science should not be buffed by ApA or GDF.
I can agree that ApO doesnt need movement protection like PH, but thats all I think it needs removed. Everything else os fne about it.
R.I.P
ApO? A power that many cruisers can use and cycle undrr a good build.
High engine power? Not just escorts use it. Anyone can infact.
High turn rates? Hardly a game winning stat on its own. Especially since one can boost it with consoles, equipment and skilling.
Good throttle control is worth more than all those above.
The only thing that make Escorts hard to kill is trying to slow them to negate thier speed and overcoming the skill of the pilot who may not panic under fire and use his heals to save himself.
R.I.P
tac buffs buffing some sci skills has nothing to do with anything, and effects CC ability in exactly 0 way. its not even that potent of damage, and trading the sci captain skills for that inconsequential extra damage is a very poor trade. SNB and scan are 100 times more deadly then tac buffed TBR.
tac captains should deal the most damage no mater what. and they do currently, but have no bonus to healing, defense or control. you need a balance of all that for team success. tac skills buffing some sci station powers is completely harmonious as is.
APO is fine, its a very strong defensive and offensive measure, but it isn't on all the time, and it can be abruptly taken away, thanks to sci captains. then escort with the bloated survivability that it has gotten from all the new items and passives will go back to being as fragile as an escort was on launch day. an escorts defense nowadays is very on or off, and if you stop faceroling spacebar long enough to time your attacks based on periods of weakness, you might actually get somewhere.
your never going to succeed in pvp if you cant exploit cooldowns and spike, or have healing layers that overlap and can counter incoming damage and debuffs, or have overlaping CC that can completely juggle a target so they are helpless for an extended period of time. im sure an escort seems invincible if you cant do any of this. and its true it is tougher to damage then it used to be, but that goes for everything, not just escorts. that supposed immunity is why you need sci captains, good sci captains not stupidly obsessed with dealing damage, and jealous of tac captains dealing more damage then them with THEIR sci skills. sci captains that can set up that target to die, so the tacs on the team can do their job of simply issuing DPS.