I'm feeling a little masochistic today, so I'm going to throw in my two cents on this issue. My main character is a tactical captain flying a Mobius. I love it. Through no fault of my own I'm pretty good, and I consistently do anywhere from 35% to 50% of my team's damage in an ISE PUG (my fleet has done a great job teaching me about builds and tactics). It's wonderful to sail through an ESTF stomping all over everything with impunity; but after parsing many combat logs the evidence is clear--Escorts are OP.
HOWEVER, the problem isn't with escorts themselves, or even with cruisers or science vessels. Nor is this a problem of dual cannons v. every other weapon. The reason this game has become so skewed toward escorts is largely the fault of one bridge officer ability, namely:
Tactical Team
TT in its current form has broken the game. Why? By allowing a single shield facing to have the strength of all the other shield facings while taking fire, any ship can survive ridiculous amounts of incoming damage. This is arguably the best defensive skill in the game--and it's a tactical skill. Does anyone else see the problem with this? The solution is simple: the shield enhancement offered by tactical team needs to be removed.
Obviously this nerfs everyone (cruisers and science vessels also use this skill heavily), but it would hit escorts the hardest as good escort captains almost always fly with two copies of this skill. Furthermore, because most escorts have very narrow firing arcs, they must keep their forward shield toward the enemy to maximize DPS. This makes them a lot more vulnerable to attacks against a single shield facing. Finally, cruisers and science vessels have a lot more BOFF slots for shield and hull repair abilities.
Before I start taking heat from other escort captains, who will legitimately complain that this nerf exacerbates the problem of useless ensign tactical BOFF slots, let me suggest that Cryptic should offset this nerf by pulling all levels of CRF and CSV down a rank. Thus, CRF1 and CSV1 would be available at ensign level. Tactical team will also still be useful for clearing tactical debuffs and boarding parties.
So how will this impact cruisers and science vessels? For starters, cruisers with Extend Shields will become a lot more important--especially if the shield buff currently provided by Tactical Team is added to Extend Shields instead. Imagine an ESTF where players complain because they don't have a good cruiser on the team for support, rather than complaining that there are too many cruisers in the group. And science vessels? Suddenly skills that siphon energy from enemy weapons and reduce their effectiveness begin to look a lot more attractive. Moreover, because escorts aren't able to blast away at dangerous enemies with reckless abandon, science skills that help strip enemy shields will once again be beneficial. Every class of ship--escorts, cruisers, sci ships, etc.--will have a useful role, and they will need to work together to complete challenging missions. Wouldn't it be great if the timer in ISE actually meant something?
To be fair, I don't know that nerfing TT will completely fix everything; power creep in STO has been going on for a while, and the ratio between offense/defense has become heavily skewed towards defense. But I do think this would solve 70%-80% of the problem. Escorts should need the help of cruisers and science vessels to reach their full DPS potential. Right now, they simply don't. That's the real problem, and that's why a TT nerf is necessary. For the moment TT is still ridiculously powerful, so I'll go ahead and activate it before this post comes under fire. What are your thoughts?
I think this hurts cruisers more than you're figuring. Being able to run dual tac teams on a high level cruiser is about all they've got going for them since it actually puts those shield numbers to work. As a cruiser captain who survives on the skill, I don't even disagree it would be tweaked but I'd be fearful of just dropping the Hammer of Hammering on it. It would really change the game immensely.
I still think the base issue is weapons drain. Cannons should drain harder, beams less, or some combination of the two. There's a lot of math that would need to be done before I could really make that more than a sweeping statement though.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
I think this hurts cruisers more than you're figuring. Being able to run dual tac teams on a high level cruiser is about all they've got going for them since it actually puts those shield numbers to work. As a cruiser captain who survives on the skill, I don't even disagree it would be tweaked but I'd be fearful of just dropping the Hammer of Hammering on it. It would really change the game immensely.
I still think the base issue is weapons drain. Cannons should drain harder, beams less, or some combination of the two. There's a lot of math that would need to be done before I could really make that more than a sweeping statement though.
You make some good points here. I am making a sweeping statement, and there is a lot of math that needs to be done before something like this is implemented. Nevertheless, I think the use of dual TT's on any ship right now, especially in its current form, is breaking the game. A good captain using this ability can avoid almost all hull damage in an ESTF; this renders a lot of cruiser skills which are specifically designed to heal hull damage largely unnecessary (I used to fly cruisers before switching to escorts a few months ago). It also negates the importance of thoughtfully engaging and withdrawing from combat. Simply put, TT allows the game to be played on a less dynamic and intelligent level, and destroys the usefulness of team synergy.
Edit: Another interesting thought--nerfing TT will actually make the Galaxy Refit useful. Back in the day, before TT got the shield buff, the Galaxy was actually a pretty good ship due to saucer separation. The ability to quickly maneuver damaged shield facings out of enemy fire, coupled with solid shield and hull repair skills, made this ship a force to be reckoned with. The Odyssey would also become more valuable for the same reasons.
Before I say this, let me quantify it by pointing out that I understand it really doesn't make a ton of sense in terms of what these powers do and what they are currently named.
But if tactical team was an engineering skill, and emergency power to shields was a tactical skill... well, it would be a pretty interesting experiment. Let's just put it that way.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
I used to run my bug/cannons all the time with my tac, however after using a.c.t. in elite stfs (i have about 1k np) my cruiser and tac with beams do about 4k more damage then escorts. Its not instant gratification like single target melt downs but make no doubt about it cruisers/beams do more damage. In an ISE good escorts usually do around 10-12k encounter dps i hover around 14-16k but its spread out damage, over a little time targets start to pop all around. As for science ships 10k is possible. Keeps faith and concentrate on always having power in your weapons as an eng you should have no problem with that.
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
TT in its current form has broken the game. Why? By allowing a single shield facing to have the strength of all the other shield facings while taking fire, any ship can survive ridiculous amounts of incoming damage. This is arguably the best defensive skill in the game--and it's a tactical skill. Does anyone else see the problem with this? The solution is simple: the shield enhancement offered by tactical team needs to be removed.
doing that will only deserve cruiser, sorry.
my 6 base turn rate cruiser will not have time to show an other shield facing to an escort stikking to me with an alpha and i will die with all 3 shield quadrant untouched.
it will be worst if i am slow down even more with tractor beam, gravity well , chroniton torp ect.
while on the other hand, for escort, showing an other shield facing is so easy, and they have the tact slot to put power that imunised them to tractor beam and all kind of power like that.
escort are becomming more and more powerfull, having only manual shield balancing or even in a macro, sometime a rsp to survive will not be sufficient.
it will be the 1 pass kill feast in pvp.
in the end no one will want cruiser for pvp and every escort will have the same build toward maximum dps in a short time.
so, not only you remove the cruiser, who are becomming useless or suicidary ( you choose )
but you will indirectly force all escort to the same build, one for maximum burst alpha strikes ( and there go the diversity ).
so really, even if in the first place it seem like a good idea, it is not.
you really have to try cruiser in pvp, then you will see how dangerous this idea is
Escorts are not OPed it is in hands of good capt.s that makes thme do damage they not the ship itself.If I could taek all my points out and remove my boffs you would see my damage out put would go down.
It is like any other rpg.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
Escorts are not OPed it is in hands of good capt.s that makes thme do damage they not the ship itself.If I could taek all my points out and remove my boffs you would see my damage out put would go down.
It is like any other rpg.
And just like any other rpg there are issues of comparative balance. Both in terms of what functionality ends up actually desired and in the ability of the various parties to deliver it.
Science ships and cruisers lack strength, synergy and a guiding principle.
look at the warlock from world of ******** for example. this character is a dotter. all of his skills are based around the principle of throwing dots and disabling a character so dots can do their work.
professions and ships in this game lack that guiding principle and half of the stuff in it is broken or weak, leading all players to the only effective way to play.
I have heard that with a LOT of work you can pull some use out of sci and eng abilities, but it shouldnt take a lot of work, they should work out of the box like tac and escort abilities.
Edit: apparently mentioning other RPGS is banned on this forum...
I do think Tac Team needs some nerfing, although with current mechanics, manual shield transfering needs to be faster. Just equalizing shields should take some time, but diverting to a single facing should be much, much quicker than it currently is. Without TT, trying to regen a shield facing is an effort in futility, especially in an ESTF. And without shields you are dead, 55k hull or 20k.
Also in my head how I could balance the three ship classes would be Escort = Burst/Spike damage, Cruiser = Sustain, and Sci = Penetration. Namely Escort damage charts would have to be filled with peaks and valleys, whereas currently Escorts deal amazing sustained damage and any valleys in their dps chart are because they had to move, not as part of their class. For example, if cannons had a 10s cd and all the shots they normally fire into that 10s period are condensed into one volley. Give an escort an actual reason to do an attack run instead of parking 2km off something and blasting it.
Cruisers would be the sustained slugger, about maintaining uptime with constant fire, using their bulk to sit there. Of course the thing here is cruisers would need more damage, through buffed beam arrays.
Sci should revolve around using their abilities to deal damage, and letting them largely ignore shields to attack the hull would be a unique niche, as all damage a Sci ship would do would matter greatly, but they are only as powerful as all the abilities they can use.
Would be a neat balance that is not trinity related and makes every ship class unique and powerful. No one is relegated to ***** support role, and everyone gets to feel awesome. Won't happen but be great if it did.
Yes, 5 cruisers that are well built will beat any STF with the optional without sweating it.
In CSE 4 cruisers with BFaW will make short work of the nanite healers without any risk. 1 cruiser is more than capable of defending the Kang.
In ISE its just a giant joke of easy
In KASE, 1 cruiser can handle the probes and one transformer with the cube, that leaves 1 cruiser to do nothing except expedite the one side.
In HOSE 5 cruisers means nobody dies and you can handle more enemies at once, increasing your overall damage.
I would like someone to show me 5 tac escorts "breezing" through HOSE when the Houston comes along an agros 3-4 cube sets. I'd like to see 5 tac escorts not lose the optional on round 2 due to one hit torp spreads. In HOSE, when things go bad in round 1, the escorts pop extremely fast, even a good team will struggle with the optional, there are times that the Houston doesn't TRIBBLE up the mission and it is easy.
This escort vs cruiser debate is 98% a learn to play issue. There are some imbalances but its pretty minor.
The major issues comes outside of elite STFs, there is no normal difficultly mission that needs any more tanking that even a poorly laid out escort can handle. The normal is far too easy, and there are no elite versions of any other missions.
Not sure if he is right, didnt say what class captains they where, what cruiser they where in running which build.
For me, cruiser issues that need buffing come from four areas, engineering abilities (cd is too long nadion inversion and eps), engineering consoles are weak, engineering ensign abilities, as in too many on shared cooldown and not enough choice and finally turn rate.
Not sure if he is right, didnt say what class captains they where, what cruiser they where in running which build.
For me, cruiser issues that need buffing come from four areas, engineering abilities (cd is too long nadion inversion and eps), engineering consoles are weak, engineering ensign abilities, as in too many on shared cooldown and not enough choice and finally turn rate.
I have tried multiple toons of every type and the cruiser still works great. again skill build knowledge.
A skilled player flying a cruiser is a waste of a skilled player.
I take offense to that, since some of the most skilled players I know fly cruisers. So basically what you're telling me is that skilled players shouldn't fly cruisers? That's just plain sad.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
The problem isnt so much Escorts it's that most of the missions that matter for endgame - STFs and Fleet Actions - are often either time-gated or are scored based on dps that taking anything besides an escort is silly. If perhaps they had scores based on healing and evasion (similar to PvP) - then we would have some justifications for other builds.
The only cruiser I run is the Pig Carrier on my Klink. All my other VAs - regardless of specialization - run escorts. They simply work the best for most of the situations the game throws at you.
If cruisers are goign to be tanks - then ffs, MAKE THEM TANK - that is, not just 5-8 k more HP, but like 20k more Hp...not just 2k more shields, but like 8k more shields.
If Escorts are supposed to be "Glass Cannons" - then ffs, MAKE THEM GLASSY! Give them an iron fist but a glass jaw...
If Science ships are going to be Crowd Control and situational ships, give them even MORE aux power - also, let THEM have special slots that other ships dont get that allows for universal consoles - this plays more into their "Magic bag of Tricks" -thing.
I mean, lets decrease the blurriness between the classes if we are stuck in the "Holy Trinity". Let's increase their differentiation ffs.
There's been a number of good ideas regards this issue.
1. Give cruisers and sci ships an attack bonus vs escorts.
1a. Escorts get a debuff when attacking cruisers and sci ships.
2. Escorts cannons DHC and HC - become shield strippers only. Doing very little damage
to the hull - torpedo's for the win!
3. Escorts are unable to slow down- YES make the q and e key
unavailable to escort captains!
3a. Escort speed is now a handicap :eek:
4. Change the firing distances of beams, cannon and turrets.
4a. To balance out for cruisers/scis
Just my thoughts
This sound awful. The most facepalm fail I've experienced in an eSTF was when my tac was matched with two engi and two sci captains. Suffice it to say, they weren't clearing nanites fast enough, and between the four of them couldn't keep the Kang alive (let alone above 75% for the less than 30s I spent clearing nanites myself).
I mean, Cryptic could make some or all the changes you suggest, but you'll get all kinds of captains crying about it, probably engi and sci the most (I don't think most of them realize who integral the high DPS from tacs are to whatever pipedream build the engi/sci is running).
The problem isnt so much Escorts it's that most of the missions that matter for endgame - STFs and Fleet Actions - are often either time-gated or are scored based on dps that taking anything besides an escort is silly.
Something like this.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
The best thing they could have done to fix escorts in this game and make the other types of ships is take the bug that was effecting the Andorian ships when they were first released (the one that made heals 1/3 as effective) and called it a feature.
Then backdated all escorts in the game to have this feature.
There you go. Escorts are glass cannons like they were always supposed to be, instead of the neutronium cannons they are now.
The best thing they could have done to fix escorts in this game and make the other types of ships is take the bug that was effecting the Andorian ships when they were first released (the one that made heals 1/3 as effective) and called it a feature.
Then backdated all escorts in the game to have this feature.
There you go. Escorts are glass cannons like they were always supposed to be, instead of the neutronium cannons they are now.
I kinda like this idea. It's not really fair for escorts (I would know, I fly one), but at the same time, it does kinda put a damper on their seeming invincibility. I know this won't ever be implemented, but it does make sense.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Rebalance the ships- give them all roles once again. Nerf escorts, buff cruisers, and really buff science ships. It is desperately needed.
Yeah, nerf escorts and see how many people quit the game, huh? I fly tac Ody, recon Vesta and the Ando Charal, as a tac captain. Guess what? I enjoy all 3, not to mention the rest of my high-end escorts. Instead of wanting drop-dead DPS in a cruiser, perhaps you should accept the limitations of the platform and learn to enjoy its strengths? If damage ONLY, with papery ships gets you sweaty, respec and join us. Oh, and you might want to consider the fact that the sun doesn't rise and set in your bottom.
indeed.. u cant just nerf them - remove the damage or nerf it and you have a whole line of useless ships and characters. Without damage escort is worse then a cargo hauler.
I do play escort - engineer wit ha unusual build - but mainly cuz i just cant tolerate slow turn speeds and boff/console slots that just force me to got specific builds on cruisers and sci ships or lack of certain slots thereof.
Yes sci ships are medium speed.. closer to escorts, but after playign first 20 levels with them i got sick of takign ages to turn around.
Not to mention that most of the "special" skills and such are just for playign around or at best supporting. U simply blow up the target fast instead of slowing it down, suckign energy and waiting for soem slow gravity dot to slowly eat its hull while using few of yout pew pew beams that are weak since as a sci ship u have to use aux alot, so you have bad weapon power levels.
This isnt about opness of escorts but the lack of good features and balance on other ships.
I dont actually like the narrow cannons and constantly tryign to keep the target in that narrow area - but the rest of the ships dont look appealing and useful enough.
Id rather fly a science ship with decent turn rate, beams everywhere and good quality skills but currently it would make me feel as if i just chose a Lada over a Ferrari.
I kinda like this idea. It's not really fair for escorts (I would know, I fly one), but at the same time, it does kinda put a damper on their seeming invincibility. I know this won't ever be implemented, but it does make sense.
No it doesn't make sense at all. Do you in your wildest dreams think that escort lovers will tolerate ships so fragile that they can't use their firepower, just so cruisers can live out a fantasy?
"I fly one, but I'm willing to have escorts nerfed out of existence! (giggle)" Disgustingly transparent, you are.
Again, PvE needs to be separated from PvP, just so we can have some peace in this game.
No it doesn't make sense at all. Do you in your wildest dreams think that escort lovers will tolerate ships so fragile that they can't use their firepower, just so cruisers can live out a fantasy?
"I fly one, but I'm willing to have escorts nerfed out of existence! (giggle)" Disgustingly transparent, you are.
Again, PvE needs to be separated from PvP, just so we can have some peace in this game.
I agree escorts are a fantasy ( STO created Fantasy )
I agree PvE and PvP need to be seprated because they cannot be balenced together , its just impossible ,Balencing one unbalences the other
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Comments
HOWEVER, the problem isn't with escorts themselves, or even with cruisers or science vessels. Nor is this a problem of dual cannons v. every other weapon. The reason this game has become so skewed toward escorts is largely the fault of one bridge officer ability, namely:
Tactical Team
TT in its current form has broken the game. Why? By allowing a single shield facing to have the strength of all the other shield facings while taking fire, any ship can survive ridiculous amounts of incoming damage. This is arguably the best defensive skill in the game--and it's a tactical skill. Does anyone else see the problem with this? The solution is simple: the shield enhancement offered by tactical team needs to be removed.
Obviously this nerfs everyone (cruisers and science vessels also use this skill heavily), but it would hit escorts the hardest as good escort captains almost always fly with two copies of this skill. Furthermore, because most escorts have very narrow firing arcs, they must keep their forward shield toward the enemy to maximize DPS. This makes them a lot more vulnerable to attacks against a single shield facing. Finally, cruisers and science vessels have a lot more BOFF slots for shield and hull repair abilities.
Before I start taking heat from other escort captains, who will legitimately complain that this nerf exacerbates the problem of useless ensign tactical BOFF slots, let me suggest that Cryptic should offset this nerf by pulling all levels of CRF and CSV down a rank. Thus, CRF1 and CSV1 would be available at ensign level. Tactical team will also still be useful for clearing tactical debuffs and boarding parties.
So how will this impact cruisers and science vessels? For starters, cruisers with Extend Shields will become a lot more important--especially if the shield buff currently provided by Tactical Team is added to Extend Shields instead. Imagine an ESTF where players complain because they don't have a good cruiser on the team for support, rather than complaining that there are too many cruisers in the group. And science vessels? Suddenly skills that siphon energy from enemy weapons and reduce their effectiveness begin to look a lot more attractive. Moreover, because escorts aren't able to blast away at dangerous enemies with reckless abandon, science skills that help strip enemy shields will once again be beneficial. Every class of ship--escorts, cruisers, sci ships, etc.--will have a useful role, and they will need to work together to complete challenging missions. Wouldn't it be great if the timer in ISE actually meant something?
To be fair, I don't know that nerfing TT will completely fix everything; power creep in STO has been going on for a while, and the ratio between offense/defense has become heavily skewed towards defense. But I do think this would solve 70%-80% of the problem. Escorts should need the help of cruisers and science vessels to reach their full DPS potential. Right now, they simply don't. That's the real problem, and that's why a TT nerf is necessary. For the moment TT is still ridiculously powerful, so I'll go ahead and activate it before this post comes under fire. What are your thoughts?
I still think the base issue is weapons drain. Cannons should drain harder, beams less, or some combination of the two. There's a lot of math that would need to be done before I could really make that more than a sweeping statement though.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
You make some good points here. I am making a sweeping statement, and there is a lot of math that needs to be done before something like this is implemented. Nevertheless, I think the use of dual TT's on any ship right now, especially in its current form, is breaking the game. A good captain using this ability can avoid almost all hull damage in an ESTF; this renders a lot of cruiser skills which are specifically designed to heal hull damage largely unnecessary (I used to fly cruisers before switching to escorts a few months ago). It also negates the importance of thoughtfully engaging and withdrawing from combat. Simply put, TT allows the game to be played on a less dynamic and intelligent level, and destroys the usefulness of team synergy.
Edit: Another interesting thought--nerfing TT will actually make the Galaxy Refit useful. Back in the day, before TT got the shield buff, the Galaxy was actually a pretty good ship due to saucer separation. The ability to quickly maneuver damaged shield facings out of enemy fire, coupled with solid shield and hull repair skills, made this ship a force to be reckoned with. The Odyssey would also become more valuable for the same reasons.
But if tactical team was an engineering skill, and emergency power to shields was a tactical skill... well, it would be a pretty interesting experiment. Let's just put it that way.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
I think the OP is confusing the ship with various builds and avatar abilities to be frank.....
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
Clearly you've never fitted out a Fleet Advanced escort for full science healing.
many problems solved
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
doing that will only deserve cruiser, sorry.
my 6 base turn rate cruiser will not have time to show an other shield facing to an escort stikking to me with an alpha and i will die with all 3 shield quadrant untouched.
it will be worst if i am slow down even more with tractor beam, gravity well , chroniton torp ect.
while on the other hand, for escort, showing an other shield facing is so easy, and they have the tact slot to put power that imunised them to tractor beam and all kind of power like that.
escort are becomming more and more powerfull, having only manual shield balancing or even in a macro, sometime a rsp to survive will not be sufficient.
it will be the 1 pass kill feast in pvp.
in the end no one will want cruiser for pvp and every escort will have the same build toward maximum dps in a short time.
so, not only you remove the cruiser, who are becomming useless or suicidary ( you choose )
but you will indirectly force all escort to the same build, one for maximum burst alpha strikes ( and there go the diversity ).
so really, even if in the first place it seem like a good idea, it is not.
you really have to try cruiser in pvp, then you will see how dangerous this idea is
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
Please nerf scissors. Rock is ok.
Sincerely, Paper.
Sci are some what passive...Sci skill should be more use full. less cool down. or more powerful to it.
And in overall if your ship cant mount cannons (DHC,DC) you wont do real high dps
I saw the differences when i fly in a Sci ship and an escort. damage out put was far far higher.
The only way that a Sci can compete = Vesta... hence why they exist.. turn all the class in to "escorts"
It is like any other rpg.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
And just like any other rpg there are issues of comparative balance. Both in terms of what functionality ends up actually desired and in the ability of the various parties to deliver it.
look at the warlock from world of ******** for example. this character is a dotter. all of his skills are based around the principle of throwing dots and disabling a character so dots can do their work.
professions and ships in this game lack that guiding principle and half of the stuff in it is broken or weak, leading all players to the only effective way to play.
I have heard that with a LOT of work you can pull some use out of sci and eng abilities, but it shouldnt take a lot of work, they should work out of the box like tac and escort abilities.
Edit: apparently mentioning other RPGS is banned on this forum...
Qft. And i run a sci in sci boat as my main
Interested in Role Playing? Join the 12th Fleet Science division!
Also in my head how I could balance the three ship classes would be Escort = Burst/Spike damage, Cruiser = Sustain, and Sci = Penetration. Namely Escort damage charts would have to be filled with peaks and valleys, whereas currently Escorts deal amazing sustained damage and any valleys in their dps chart are because they had to move, not as part of their class. For example, if cannons had a 10s cd and all the shots they normally fire into that 10s period are condensed into one volley. Give an escort an actual reason to do an attack run instead of parking 2km off something and blasting it.
Cruisers would be the sustained slugger, about maintaining uptime with constant fire, using their bulk to sit there. Of course the thing here is cruisers would need more damage, through buffed beam arrays.
Sci should revolve around using their abilities to deal damage, and letting them largely ignore shields to attack the hull would be a unique niche, as all damage a Sci ship would do would matter greatly, but they are only as powerful as all the abilities they can use.
Would be a neat balance that is not trinity related and makes every ship class unique and powerful. No one is relegated to ***** support role, and everyone gets to feel awesome. Won't happen but be great if it did.
(Clapping). THIS MAN IS CORRECT
Not sure if he is right, didnt say what class captains they where, what cruiser they where in running which build.
For me, cruiser issues that need buffing come from four areas, engineering abilities (cd is too long nadion inversion and eps), engineering consoles are weak, engineering ensign abilities, as in too many on shared cooldown and not enough choice and finally turn rate.
I have tried multiple toons of every type and the cruiser still works great. again skill build knowledge.
1. Give cruisers and sci ships an attack bonus vs escorts.
1a. Escorts get a debuff when attacking cruisers and sci ships.
2. Escorts cannons DHC and HC - become shield strippers only. Doing very little damage
to the hull - torpedo's for the win!
3. Escorts are unable to slow down- YES make the q and e key
unavailable to escort captains!
3a. Escort speed is now a handicap :eek:
4. Change the firing distances of beams, cannon and turrets.
4a. To balance out for cruisers/scis
Just my thoughts
I take offense to that, since some of the most skilled players I know fly cruisers. So basically what you're telling me is that skilled players shouldn't fly cruisers? That's just plain sad.
The only cruiser I run is the Pig Carrier on my Klink. All my other VAs - regardless of specialization - run escorts. They simply work the best for most of the situations the game throws at you.
If cruisers are goign to be tanks - then ffs, MAKE THEM TANK - that is, not just 5-8 k more HP, but like 20k more Hp...not just 2k more shields, but like 8k more shields.
If Escorts are supposed to be "Glass Cannons" - then ffs, MAKE THEM GLASSY! Give them an iron fist but a glass jaw...
If Science ships are going to be Crowd Control and situational ships, give them even MORE aux power - also, let THEM have special slots that other ships dont get that allows for universal consoles - this plays more into their "Magic bag of Tricks" -thing.
I mean, lets decrease the blurriness between the classes if we are stuck in the "Holy Trinity". Let's increase their differentiation ffs.
I mean, Cryptic could make some or all the changes you suggest, but you'll get all kinds of captains crying about it, probably engi and sci the most (I don't think most of them realize who integral the high DPS from tacs are to whatever pipedream build the engi/sci is running).
Something like this.
Then backdated all escorts in the game to have this feature.
There you go. Escorts are glass cannons like they were always supposed to be, instead of the neutronium cannons they are now.
I kinda like this idea. It's not really fair for escorts (I would know, I fly one), but at the same time, it does kinda put a damper on their seeming invincibility. I know this won't ever be implemented, but it does make sense.
Yeah, nerf escorts and see how many people quit the game, huh? I fly tac Ody, recon Vesta and the Ando Charal, as a tac captain. Guess what? I enjoy all 3, not to mention the rest of my high-end escorts. Instead of wanting drop-dead DPS in a cruiser, perhaps you should accept the limitations of the platform and learn to enjoy its strengths? If damage ONLY, with papery ships gets you sweaty, respec and join us. Oh, and you might want to consider the fact that the sun doesn't rise and set in your bottom.
I do play escort - engineer wit ha unusual build - but mainly cuz i just cant tolerate slow turn speeds and boff/console slots that just force me to got specific builds on cruisers and sci ships or lack of certain slots thereof.
Yes sci ships are medium speed.. closer to escorts, but after playign first 20 levels with them i got sick of takign ages to turn around.
Not to mention that most of the "special" skills and such are just for playign around or at best supporting. U simply blow up the target fast instead of slowing it down, suckign energy and waiting for soem slow gravity dot to slowly eat its hull while using few of yout pew pew beams that are weak since as a sci ship u have to use aux alot, so you have bad weapon power levels.
This isnt about opness of escorts but the lack of good features and balance on other ships.
I dont actually like the narrow cannons and constantly tryign to keep the target in that narrow area - but the rest of the ships dont look appealing and useful enough.
Id rather fly a science ship with decent turn rate, beams everywhere and good quality skills but currently it would make me feel as if i just chose a Lada over a Ferrari.
No it doesn't make sense at all. Do you in your wildest dreams think that escort lovers will tolerate ships so fragile that they can't use their firepower, just so cruisers can live out a fantasy?
"I fly one, but I'm willing to have escorts nerfed out of existence! (giggle)" Disgustingly transparent, you are.
Again, PvE needs to be separated from PvP, just so we can have some peace in this game.
I agree escorts are a fantasy ( STO created Fantasy )
I agree PvE and PvP need to be seprated because they cannot be balenced together , its just impossible ,Balencing one unbalences the other
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse