I have a proposal for allowing multiple fleets to contribute to the same project and share its benefits. It allows small fleets to pool their resources, and does not require scaling back project requirements (either by fleet size or universally). Since the proposal is somewhat long, I have put it in a separate thread.
Nope, no flip flopping here, its what the CDFers call "things change".
Going to nitpick on one specific item here, the STF debacle. Stahls comments assuring everyone that STF dilithium payouts wouldn't be affected came two or three days (I believe it was two, but I'd have to go back and check) prior to S7 hitting. A 180 degree reversal in two days driven purely by internal Cryptic motives is not a "things change" moment, it's pure unadulterated lying.
Had it been weeks, or even months, prior to S7 then there would be room to argue the "stuff happens" avenue, but two days? Absolutely not.
Is this stated anywhere or is it revisionist history?
no its not as far as ive seen, and i check the forms 5-6 times a week :eek:
just been on one of my klingon toons n queued for fleet mark missions it took me one hour of sittting n waiting todo 2 missions thanks a lot cryptic for nerfing fleet marks from foundry this is going to slow down my klington base but think u new that befor the nerf
For most players this is true, but if you can do without all the higher level fleet stuff and just like to play for the fun of it.... start your own and advertise it for what it is, I'm sure you're not the only one.
I personally like the fleet I'm with just due to the players, not how far it is in tier construction. We are lvl 4 but in fed and klingon, but if we weren't I would still stay. Grinding is not fun for anyone, take time to enjoy the game and don't be obsessed with getting the latest stuff. In every mmo there will be better stuff in the future.
I tried to recruit but like I said... No one wanted to help work on an "under tier 1" starbase and got sick of being baited by those in large fleets. They kept saying "why you trying to start a new fleet? join ours". I had my fleet for years so **** them for saying that.
I figured we would see new players in may due to the new JJTrek movie and was hoping to have a starbase with some basic amenities to offer the new blood. Was a simple and easy goal. Was pacing myself as not to burn out. Seriously, as an old power gamer, could have ground the **** of my starbase but I was taking my time and savoring the flavor.
Oh well, it's all gone now. Am just here for the rest of my night and will be on my way after this.
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
I am a fleet commander in a 500 member fleet , We use teamspeak and group every day and run your content.
We pick what is fun to run and enjoy we can pick anything.
We pick 99% of the time STFs , Why ? because its the most fun content in the game to us
The only reason we pick any Romulan missions is because ,,,,Were blackmailed into it by your design in rewarding romulan marks , Not because we find any of them fun
The same goes in spades for Fleet mark missions .......There NOT fun
Why not let us convert Omega marks and Borg processors into ( Romulan marks ) and ( fleet marks )
Why not let klingons group with us to Run Content ? We have a klingon sister fleet and those guys have a hard time doing content because the ques are empty a lot of the time while we run full 5 man teams
We have 2 work arounds to get them in our games I will not disclose because you may try and Nerf it but it would be easier to allow grouping for PvE content
Final word......If you adc the same reward to Fleet actions that you have in stfs we would still rather play the sTFs The fleet and romulan content is just that poor
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I would have two simple questions for the Dev Team to answer.
1) With fleet progression the dilithium and duty officer requirements can be purchased with zen, or cash currency. Why then is it by design that many fleets are instead struggling with the Fleet Mark currency that I cannot make profit off of? That would be like limiting lockbox drops to being very rare and nonsensical.
2) With ships being a very large driver of sales why would the new most desirable ones be locked behind a huge grind and timegate? Those are one of the largest sources of profit and by design you limit the number of customers who can purchase them. Please explain.
Funny, my partner was trying to cheer me up and I am drinking my TRIBBLE off. I quit drinking years ago. We were going to have dinner and I been here the whole time. LOL.
DStahl, you killed my valentines day dinner, too! I am soooo sleeping on the couch!
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
Seems that you feel free ( and comfortable ) of taking all decisions in this virtual world.
But take into account that if we are not comfortable with them, something you do not mention enywhere, we have the "exit" button at centimeters of our fingers.
May be you should consider to make thing to happen in your way, and play you alone, or take into account the wishes of the community.
And, definitively, I don not like to be "monitorized".
Going to nitpick on one specific item here, the STF debacle. Stahls comments assuring everyone that STF dilithium payouts wouldn't be affected came two or three days (I believe it was two, but I'd have to go back and check) prior to S7 hitting. A 180 degree reversal in two days driven purely by internal Cryptic motives is not a "things change" moment, it's pure unadulterated lying.
Had it been weeks, or even months, prior to S7 then there would be room to argue the "stuff happens" avenue, but two days? Absolutely not.
Re read it m8.
I'm not saying it was a things change, I'm saying that certain people will say it's a things change.
I'm in agreement that it was an out and out lie.:)
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
We're starved because you have put too much demand on Dilithium. Slow down the demand and the situation will change.
That is EXACTLY my feelings. I mean, look at crafting for instance. To make ONE weapon or whatever, you need nearly TWO DAYS worth of refinement. It is fairly easy to get dilithium now yes, but it's not worth getting over 8000 per day because of the refinement cap. Oh, I'm sorry, 17000 every two days because I'm a veteran and have access to the refiner. Cut down on demand, raise the cap, that will help A LOT.
Let us upgrade the Seleya Ceremonial Lirpa and Kri'stak Blade
I think removing Fleet Marks from the foundry missions is SENSIBLE.
SUGGESTION: I was thinking about that several times before - How about making the starbase and embassy officer of the watch dailies repeatable, perhaps 4 or 5 times a day. Like this, players could farm at least a few fleet marks completely on their own (and still in a "fleet environment"). It would also help to populate the fleet holdings more (other than keeping their instances open).
Thank the stars we as a fleet have enough fleet marks to finish our star base.
Though Dan, MMO 101, your opinion as a dev means NOTHING. You have forgotten a basic MMO rule that when the devs opinion matters more than that of the players paying your wages = dead MMO.
We as a fleet have decided to not bother with your boring after day one fleet content. We would rather give up than do them things again.....
But I also think I understand enough of what may be going on on Cryptic's end.
Care to enlighten us then?
You seem to have some insider information that we are not aware of?
To most on this thread it seems to be simply 1 of 2 reasons.
1. The Foundry authors "screamed" that they want it removed and Cryptic did (highly unlikely)
2. People are building bases faster than Cryptic wanted and they may loose money.
I go for number 2.
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
I did a fleet mission last night.. And after boring my brains out I made a measly 17 marks... Last fleet mission I did the rest of the night... If they made fleet missions reward the same as STF they would be great... But they will never do that cause it makes sense... -_-
I so would choke the **** out of option#1. just saying. glad it's just a game. bodies are hard to hide. well, not really. ;0
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
what you call exploiting i call usind the foundry to collect dill and fm within YOU'RE OWN GAME DESIGN. please stop implying its all the evil players faults. and stop punishing you re playerbase. to be honest, You re company hasent made many good decisions, from lockbox lotto for the games best ships and now to this.
If the object of Your experiment here is to suck you re playerbase dry of real world money, have fun but i wont be a part of it. You are whats wrong with the state of mmos today, and turning a truly iconic fraanchise like trek into the moneygrab "mmo" it is today disgusts me. Im so sorry for trek that the game fell into the hands of a company who is part of a country that has no regard for human rights or anything else but profit, and clearly it shows in the final product.
I firmly believe most of the negative changes to sto since launch have been corporate pig decisions, and the dev team is just following orders, could be wrong but im willing to give em benefit of the doubt.
If battlestar galactica didnt freeze at the end of every mission, thus being unplayable, id honestly just play that. at least that is sandbox and has real open world pvp. what sto calls a galaxy, feels like im driving an RC car around my livingroom.
Even if Dan did quit, his successor would be subject to the same PWE directived Dan is. He's just a figurehead. Yes he makes decisions on how to enact the policies PWE has decided for them.
But PWE wants to make money... bet Dan will be hitting the skids pretty damn quick.... or not.;)
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
Last night, two fleet mates and I logged in the game to get our almost nightly 150 fleet marks each when we discovered that the IOR mission was gone. I queued us up for one incredibly boring fleet mark mission and they logged off after. No one had the will to suffer through that to get the amount we could have had, while enjoying content that was ACTUALLY FUN TO PLAY.
Just to clarify, my fleet has 70+ members but only a handful of us actually contribute anything that would be considered meaningful. Thanks for sapping the fun from the game.
Formerly known as Khannnnn "Spock, this 'child' is about to wipe out every living thing on Earth. Now, what do you suggest we do? Spank it?" -Commander Leonard 'Bones' McCoy, M.D.
If battlestar galactica didnt freeze at the end of every mission, thus being unplayable, id honestly just play that. at least that is sandbox and has real open world pvp. what sto calls a galaxy, feels like im driving an RC car around my livingroom.
Was a Cylon on Caprica... might go check it out again. can't be any worse than freezing everywhere in STO.
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
Thank the stars we as a fleet have enough fleet marks to finish our star base.
Though Dan, MMO 101, your opinion as a dev means NOTHING. You have forgotten a basic MMO rule that when the devs opinion matters more than that of the players paying your wages = dead MMO.
We as a fleet have decided to not bother with your boring after day one fleet content. We would rather give up than do them things again.....
totally agree.
the sad thing is though that fleet ships arent even that great. lol they still make (stupid) players buy tons of keys to gamble for the best ships in game. making the best stat ships in game payed for and ships you work for in game inferior to them is horrible game design.
basicly eventually you will end up with just the no lifers who spend there government checks on sto as your only playerbase.
Fleet Marks will becoming common rewards for "Group Queued Gameplay" whereas Dilithium will be focused on more solo Mission Gameplay.
Despite this, I hope the Dilithium rewards for STFs remain as-is, even as Fleet Mark rewards are added (I strongly support this, but think STFs should award both).
Overall, I agree with the OP. I'm a member of a smaller fleet which is currently stalled on the T3 upgrades (it's been hit after hit of extreme Dilithium costs for some time now), but...we're a smaller fleet. It should take us longer to reach T5, and I'm okay with that.
Of course I'm open to any tweaking or streamlining that might happen along the way, but I agree that the basic principle is sound.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
If I'm a member of a fleet, then all gameplay is fleet gameplay. I regularly team with other fleet members but we don't play those fleet-based missions, we like playing different content. How will you resolve this conundrum exactly?
Yea I beleave dsthal is missing your point , him saying foundry isnt fleet played missions, but yes they are we played them as a fleet to get the fleet marks so there for they are fleet missions lol, He doesnt get that it doesnt have to be a cryptic made fleet mission to be one, i am also in a fleet and any mission we play with our fleeties are, oh well they just dont get it when they do stuff like this there pushing people away from the foundry and from the game itself.
Comments
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=8082821
Please read.
Going to nitpick on one specific item here, the STF debacle. Stahls comments assuring everyone that STF dilithium payouts wouldn't be affected came two or three days (I believe it was two, but I'd have to go back and check) prior to S7 hitting. A 180 degree reversal in two days driven purely by internal Cryptic motives is not a "things change" moment, it's pure unadulterated lying.
Had it been weeks, or even months, prior to S7 then there would be room to argue the "stuff happens" avenue, but two days? Absolutely not.
no its not as far as ive seen, and i check the forms 5-6 times a week :eek:
just been on one of my klingon toons n queued for fleet mark missions it took me one hour of sittting n waiting todo 2 missions thanks a lot cryptic for nerfing fleet marks from foundry this is going to slow down my klington base but think u new that befor the nerf
I tried to recruit but like I said... No one wanted to help work on an "under tier 1" starbase and got sick of being baited by those in large fleets. They kept saying "why you trying to start a new fleet? join ours". I had my fleet for years so **** them for saying that.
I figured we would see new players in may due to the new JJTrek movie and was hoping to have a starbase with some basic amenities to offer the new blood. Was a simple and easy goal. Was pacing myself as not to burn out. Seriously, as an old power gamer, could have ground the **** of my starbase but I was taking my time and savoring the flavor.
Oh well, it's all gone now. Am just here for the rest of my night and will be on my way after this.
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
St Valentine's Day Massacre.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Valentine's_Day_Massacre
We pick what is fun to run and enjoy we can pick anything.
We pick 99% of the time STFs , Why ? because its the most fun content in the game to us
The only reason we pick any Romulan missions is because ,,,,Were blackmailed into it by your design in rewarding romulan marks , Not because we find any of them fun
The same goes in spades for Fleet mark missions .......There NOT fun
Why not let us convert Omega marks and Borg processors into ( Romulan marks ) and ( fleet marks )
Why not let klingons group with us to Run Content ? We have a klingon sister fleet and those guys have a hard time doing content because the ques are empty a lot of the time while we run full 5 man teams
We have 2 work arounds to get them in our games I will not disclose because you may try and Nerf it but it would be easier to allow grouping for PvE content
Final word......If you adc the same reward to Fleet actions that you have in stfs we would still rather play the sTFs The fleet and romulan content is just that poor
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
1) With fleet progression the dilithium and duty officer requirements can be purchased with zen, or cash currency. Why then is it by design that many fleets are instead struggling with the Fleet Mark currency that I cannot make profit off of? That would be like limiting lockbox drops to being very rare and nonsensical.
2) With ships being a very large driver of sales why would the new most desirable ones be locked behind a huge grind and timegate? Those are one of the largest sources of profit and by design you limit the number of customers who can purchase them. Please explain.
Was thinking that... good call!
Funny, my partner was trying to cheer me up and I am drinking my TRIBBLE off. I quit drinking years ago. We were going to have dinner and I been here the whole time. LOL.
DStahl, you killed my valentines day dinner, too! I am soooo sleeping on the couch!
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
But take into account that if we are not comfortable with them, something you do not mention enywhere, we have the "exit" button at centimeters of our fingers.
May be you should consider to make thing to happen in your way, and play you alone, or take into account the wishes of the community.
And, definitively, I don not like to be "monitorized".
Re read it m8.
I'm not saying it was a things change, I'm saying that certain people will say it's a things change.
I'm in agreement that it was an out and out lie.:)
"Working as intended, ensign, carry on."
That is EXACTLY my feelings. I mean, look at crafting for instance. To make ONE weapon or whatever, you need nearly TWO DAYS worth of refinement. It is fairly easy to get dilithium now yes, but it's not worth getting over 8000 per day because of the refinement cap. Oh, I'm sorry, 17000 every two days because I'm a veteran and have access to the refiner. Cut down on demand, raise the cap, that will help A LOT.
Let us upgrade the Seleya Ceremonial Lirpa and Kri'stak Blade
SUGGESTION: I was thinking about that several times before - How about making the starbase and embassy officer of the watch dailies repeatable, perhaps 4 or 5 times a day. Like this, players could farm at least a few fleet marks completely on their own (and still in a "fleet environment"). It would also help to populate the fleet holdings more (other than keeping their instances open).
STOWiki admin.
Though Dan, MMO 101, your opinion as a dev means NOTHING. You have forgotten a basic MMO rule that when the devs opinion matters more than that of the players paying your wages = dead MMO.
We as a fleet have decided to not bother with your boring after day one fleet content. We would rather give up than do them things again.....
Care to enlighten us then?
You seem to have some insider information that we are not aware of?
To most on this thread it seems to be simply 1 of 2 reasons.
1. The Foundry authors "screamed" that they want it removed and Cryptic did (highly unlikely)
2. People are building bases faster than Cryptic wanted and they may loose money.
I go for number 2.
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
If the object of Your experiment here is to suck you re playerbase dry of real world money, have fun but i wont be a part of it. You are whats wrong with the state of mmos today, and turning a truly iconic fraanchise like trek into the moneygrab "mmo" it is today disgusts me. Im so sorry for trek that the game fell into the hands of a company who is part of a country that has no regard for human rights or anything else but profit, and clearly it shows in the final product.
I firmly believe most of the negative changes to sto since launch have been corporate pig decisions, and the dev team is just following orders, could be wrong but im willing to give em benefit of the doubt.
We need fleet marks !! and the current rewards for fleet missions are too low.
But PWE wants to make money... bet Dan will be hitting the skids pretty damn quick.... or not.;)
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
Just to clarify, my fleet has 70+ members but only a handful of us actually contribute anything that would be considered meaningful. Thanks for sapping the fun from the game.
"Spock, this 'child' is about to wipe out every living thing on Earth. Now, what do you suggest we do? Spank it?" -Commander Leonard 'Bones' McCoy, M.D.
Was a Cylon on Caprica... might go check it out again. can't be any worse than freezing everywhere in STO.
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
totally agree.
the sad thing is though that fleet ships arent even that great. lol they still make (stupid) players buy tons of keys to gamble for the best ships in game. making the best stat ships in game payed for and ships you work for in game inferior to them is horrible game design.
basicly eventually you will end up with just the no lifers who spend there government checks on sto as your only playerbase.
Overall, I agree with the OP. I'm a member of a smaller fleet which is currently stalled on the T3 upgrades (it's been hit after hit of extreme Dilithium costs for some time now), but...we're a smaller fleet. It should take us longer to reach T5, and I'm okay with that.
Of course I'm open to any tweaking or streamlining that might happen along the way, but I agree that the basic principle is sound.
Yea I beleave dsthal is missing your point , him saying foundry isnt fleet played missions, but yes they are we played them as a fleet to get the fleet marks so there for they are fleet missions lol, He doesnt get that it doesnt have to be a cryptic made fleet mission to be one, i am also in a fleet and any mission we play with our fleeties are, oh well they just dont get it when they do stuff like this there pushing people away from the foundry and from the game itself.