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Update on Fleet Marks and Dilithium

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  • edited February 2013
    This content has been removed.
  • user839020189287user839020189287 Member Posts: 291 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I was the leader of an all Bounty Hunter guild, 50 strong. We were rolling in credits and had crafter alts and our own city so close to the Emperor's Retreat on Naboo that we used it's spaceport for our own.

    We all deleted our toons and quit the day of the NGE.

    Good times.
    "Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"

    - KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.
    Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
  • solomacesolomace Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I know Dan's actual track record. But I also know that the buck doesn't really stop with Dan. The Craptastic grindfest that STO has become is a PWE directive, because that is the sort of thing PWE does. Dan may monitor the metrics of who is doing what and how much of this reward is being earned from that content. But PWE monitors the actual bottom line. And if PWE picks up the phone and calls Jack Emmert and breaths down his neck over the few cents loss in this or that field, Jack Emmert is going to call Dan Stahl and breathe down his neck over it.

    Yes, Dan makes the calls on what to do, but PWE defines the criteria he must follow for making the calls.

    Hmmm, So either Dan is lying to us or you're mistaken.

    Dan repeatedly tells us that the book stops with him and that he makes all the decisions.
    Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
  • mutualcoremutualcore Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Don't worry if some people give up...just throw more lockboxes and dilithium sinks to squeeze $$ from the ones who don't.
    How about adding incentive for more fleet group play by giving a bonus FM reward for actually teaming with fleet members during FM missions. It could work on regular content like patrols and explore strange new worlds too. Would be nice for your fleet to actually explore space again. The content is already there and collecting dust.
  • user839020189287user839020189287 Member Posts: 291 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    solomace wrote: »
    Hmmm, So either Dan is lying to us or you're mistaken.

    Dan repeatedly tells us that the book stops with him and that he makes all the decisions.

    Book' em, Danno!

    Book'em all!
    "Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"

    - KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.
    Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
  • solomacesolomace Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    No we're not.

    Whenever Cryptic pulls one of their abrupt but significant changes, there's rage for a couple of weeks. Then they produce a solution that ultimately calms everyone down so the enraged shouting becomes at worst an annoyed murmur.

    In Star Wars Galaxies, we saw "Roll back to Pre-NGE!" posts and rants about how the game used to be all the way up to the end, almost. At least here, Cryptic manages to enact effective damage control. But SOE put forth no effort at damage control. In fact, there was one SOE Dev who went down in infamy for his post about "Forum posters who are players vs poster who play the forums" in which he pretty much outright ridiculed those in the community who were dis-satisfied with the state of the game. That brush fire became an inferno that lasted for MONTHS.

    This is the latest speedbump on the STO highway that will fade into memory and insignificance in time. It is not the end of the world. If you feel otherwise, then maybe you should take a break, breathe some fresh air, spend some time away from the forum drama and then come back with a fresh perspective. It's not worth developing an ulcer over.

    You on Red Bull or something? ;) I admire the strength it must take to lift those pom poms of yours...:)
    Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    dastahl wrote: »
    Average max level player refining per day is nowhere near the cap yet. Once the average Dilithium refined per day by max level players gets closer to the cap, we'll consider it.

    My question is in what way you are arriving to this?

    What formula are you using?

    What is the criteria for an "average user"? Is it the average of the sum of all registered players of the game or actual active players determined by play hours in a day/week/month?


    dastahl wrote: »
    There are two additional big changes coming in May that will greatly improve a Fleet's abilities to complete projects, I'm just not at liberty to talk about them yet.

    We have a small fleet ourselves (with no cheaty dev accounts either) and we're only at T3 - so we understand how challenging it can be if everyone isn't playing the right content or contributing.

    We are beginning the tuning process that will get us to where we want to be for the big May update and that includes adding new things and balancing existing things.

    Fleet Marks will becoming common rewards for "Group Queued Gameplay" whereas Dilithium will be focused on more solo Mission Gameplay.

    We appreciate that there is frustration about losing the Fleet Marks in the Foundry, but Fleet Marks were never intended for solo based gameplay.

    Balancing is no fun, but we hear the suggestions that trying to get in the groove with a standard set of content is important. That is where we are trying to go without horking the economy.

    And to answer the naysayers - STO had its best month of growth ever and the game is only going to get bigger, expecially this summer. We do look at the economy reports every day. Players ARE earning more Dilithium AND more Fleet Marks than they ever have.

    I don't know if its nay-saying or not. One of the areas where we have our perception of activity is our fellow online friends activity. I have been here since Beta and the vast majority of people on my friends list are long since vanished. Since the Fleet SB missions, my fleet went from an active fleet with at least ten guys (many with lifetime subscriptions) at a time on Team Speak yukking it up and having a good time playing the game, to a virtual ghost town with occasional contact of same of the die-hards and a few newer guys weve been able to bring in. One of the key topics mentioned is the "Grind-Fest" and how we miss playing PvP but we don't have the competitive gear to match the larger fleet players. Were are still at level 8 Tier 2 with one guy contributing close to 7 mill and three others at about 2 million or more each.

    We do have a FM, Dil' problem in our fleet. I know the special mining rights items will put me in a severe refining bottleneck should I do that AND the STF's .

    Another area we are having a problem with is Duty Officers, unless we blow our EC in the exchange, it take us about two to three weeks to pick up the required DOFFS needed to complete a "mission"

    While we are on about DOFFs, who's bright idea was it to increase the dil' prices for the "reassign under performing officers" missions? 2,500 dilithium AND 5 uncommon's to get a random Rare?
    dastahl wrote: »
    Removing the Marks from the Foundry needed to happen, and since it was scheduled to come off after the Anniversary, it did. We will get Fleet Marks back into more appropriate content quickly as we did after Season 7 launch.

    I can understand why you did it and don't blame you for it. It probably should have been mentioned that it was for the Anniversary period only. If it was, I apologize, but have yet to find it in my travels (maybe bigger font in neon lights would be helpfull? :D )
    dastahl wrote: »
    I appreciate that we don't always make good decisions. We do listen to feedback and we do adjust in order to make things better for everyone.

    People are people and things happen in relation to decisions. At them moment we actually see less of the devs than when the game was new. Branflakes is a good guy and we appreciate his input, but we also miss direct feedback from the dev's. There are many forums where people really can't figure out what is going on in relation to what the system is and how things (consoles, boff, doffs) really work, or bugs that we are waiting forever to hear responses back on, can we get some more face time from Devs to support Bran alittle bit more?
  • sunfranckssunfrancks Member Posts: 3,925 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    No we're not.

    Whenever Cryptic pulls one of their abrupt but significant changes, there's rage for a couple of weeks. Then they produce a solution that ultimately calms everyone down so the enraged shouting becomes at worst an annoyed murmur.

    In Star Wars Galaxies, we saw "Roll back to Pre-NGE!" posts and rants about how the game used to be all the way up to the end, almost. At least here, Cryptic manages to enact effective damage control. But SOE put forth no effort at damage control. In fact, there was one SOE Dev who went down in infamy for his post about "Forum posters who are players vs poster who play the forums" in which he pretty much outright ridiculed those in the community who were dis-satisfied with the state of the game. That brush fire became an inferno that lasted for MONTHS.

    This is the latest speedbump on the STO highway that will fade into memory and insignificance in time. It is not the end of the world. If you feel otherwise, then maybe you should take a break, breathe some fresh air, spend some time away from the forum drama and then come back with a fresh perspective. It's not worth developing an ulcer over.

    Um, the point is, Cryptic keep doing this over and over again. They never learn, in which case are far worse than SOE in that respect....

    The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over expecting different results. This is what Cryptic are, insane.
    Fed: Eng Lib Borg (Five) Tac Andorian (Shen) Sci Alien/Klingon (Maelrock) KDF:Tac Romulan KDF (Sasha) Tac Klingon (K'dopis)
    Founder, member and former leader to Pride Of The Federation Fleet.
    What I feel after I hear about every decision made since Andre "Mobile Games Generalisimo" Emerson arrived...
    3oz8xC9gn8Fh4DK9Q4.gif





  • lordagamemnonb5lordagamemnonb5 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    This is the latest speedbump on the STO highway that will fade into memory and insignificance in time.

    And this is why they keep doing TRIBBLE like this. Too many people willing to let mediocrity slide. Few actually want to continue to hold the devs accountible.

    Except maybe now. This actually maybe the straw that broke the camel's back. People just have to keep it up and hold stupidity like this accountable.
    How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
    Star Trek: The Original Grind
    Star Trek: The Next Grind
    Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
    Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
  • darramouss1darramouss1 Member Posts: 1,811 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Hey, Dan Stahl, have you arrived at the conclusion that we don't like the changes yet?
  • usscapitalusscapital Member Posts: 985 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Hey, Dan Stahl, have you arrived at the conclusion that we don't like the changes yet?

    lol but in one word i would say no , water off of a duck back :D
    NERF NERF NERF ONLINE

    DELTA PRICE RISING
  • thebumblethebumble Member Posts: 2
    edited February 2013
    Love it. Slept for 7 hours, got up and fed the kids and now I'm having my first cup of coffee. To bad this last patch wasn't just a bad nightmare.

    Now. lets get down to brass tacks...
    ...This is the latest speedbump on the STO highway that will fade into memory and insignificance in time....


    This is not a speed bump, this is a sink hole that just dropped right in the center of the highway. Speedbumps you can see coming, this, we didn't have a clue. They snuck it in at the last moment.

    They need to have a Season just to fix the bugs in the game. Seeing as according to them, technically there is no Season 8((It has a different name.)), they should should make Season 8: Season of Bugs.
  • atomictikiatomictiki Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Whenever Cryptic pulls one of their abrupt but significant changes, there's rage for a couple of weeks. Then they produce a solution that ultimately calms everyone down so the enraged shouting becomes at worst an annoyed murmur.

    The solution is always ALWAYS returning less that we got previously. Theyare continually returning less thanthey take - always shafting the players ina way that fools just enoughto keep their shenanigans afloat.
    Leave nerfing to the professionals.
  • boglejam73boglejam73 Member Posts: 890 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Fact: Dan said that they will be adding new sources of FMs in preparation for the May update which has a couple of systems in it that will also reduce the cost of fleet projects.

    Fact: Dan says a lot of things.

    Fact: A lot of the things Dan says A.) never occur or B.) Occur in a way that seems designed to inflame the largest percentage of the game population possible.

    Fact: Bacon is tasty.

    Fact: I can do this literally for days because I have some free time now unscheduled due to not needing to lg in and grind fleet marks until "maybe" things get fixed in May. Maybe.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • solidsamsolidsam Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    All I know is that my fleet members were actually excited to get in the game an earn fleet marks with me and experience a fun story together. We had a lot of fun running the spotlight missions and then even more when we started playing missions from our favorite authors.

    I'd go in the game, select four missions, then come back on later with three other fleet members and invite them to take part in it. We actually ENJOYED earning the fleet marks in a group. Now we're back to point where I have to beg people to come in and do at least one crappy PvE queue a day. Thanks.
    Formerly known as Khannnnn
    "Spock, this 'child' is about to wipe out every living thing on Earth. Now, what do you suggest we do? Spank it?" -Commander Leonard 'Bones' McCoy, M.D.
  • user839020189287user839020189287 Member Posts: 291 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    well 50 pages in and I am ready to go. My partner is irate now.

    Y'all take care.

    See some of you in the next MMO.

    Qapla'
    "Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"

    - KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.
    Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
  • weylandjuarezweylandjuarez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    And this is why they keep doing TRIBBLE like this. Too many people willing to let mediocrity slide.

    QFT.

    Too many people saying 'well it's free - what do you expect?' - downloading the installer and making an account may be free but after that you pay - with time and/or money - people have invested huge amounts of both in this game because it's Trek and because they want it to succeed, only to continually be treated with contempt by the Devs.

    Season 7 proved that you can only push the player-base so far but Cryptic/PWE seem to have learned nothing from the last time they enraged their players.

    Honestly, I think it's time for a new vision and a new EP, Stahl has no trust, respect or goodwill left in this community.
    Please join our peaceful protest to help make STO a better game
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Proudly not contributing to PWE's bottom-line since October 2012
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    That camel always regenerates , but in the end they will add FM it may not be to the foundry and then everyone will forgive and forget ,and the cycle continues .

    The cycle has always been it can never be broken, it is eternal.

    Resistance is futile.
    GwaoHAD.png
  • darramouss1darramouss1 Member Posts: 1,811 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    thebumble wrote: »
    They need to have a Season just to fix the bugs in the game. Seeing as according to them, technically there is no Season 8((It has a different name.)), they should should make Season 8: Season of Bugs.

    There'd be some cool pets in THAT season!!
  • edited February 2013
    This content has been removed.
  • boglejam73boglejam73 Member Posts: 890 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    You know... here is a crazy thought.

    Sell Fleet marks.

    I mean, I still wouldn't buy them. But if a small fleet really wanted to go fast thru the progression and had some extra cash. it'd be a winning proposition for them and Cryptic.

    And the players with the glut of dilithium could convert to zen to buy fleet marks...

    But thus would never happen. It would fix too many problems while simultaneously make the developer money. :rolleyes:
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • petst0nepetst0ne Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    broken1981 wrote: »
    hello Mr.dastahl, i have a question from the pvp side of things. i really hope you do answer my question because it also affects pve game play. why is the cost of building a star base so expensive when the gear is not even worth it?

    the ships in lock boxes are better, the weps we get from drops and off exchange are much better, yet we have to spend an ungodly amount of dil for accx1 damage x3 mk12? im not asking for any accx3 weps. maybe that can be part of some pvp rep or just left as drops.

    but the gear that comes from the star base isent great at all. sure it has a flashy color and a mk12 tag. but i can go to the exchange and get a mk12 wep with way better mods for under 200k ec.

    also what i dont understand is the advanced ground weps are better then the elite ground weps. now dont get me wrong, some of the stuff is nice. elite shields which are considered over powered and then the tact kit mk12 fire team. the mk12 fire team kit is over powered for ground pvp. fine we under stand power creep, but then why are the engineer and sci kits not up to par? first off an engineer can lay emplacements that look good. but if you have just 2 tacts on a ground stf that engineer is going to have a fail kit. the npc will be dead by the time the first mortar shell will hit the ground.

    all the tacts are going to do is use suppression fire and use a sword with a critdx3 mod and mow down every npc. the borg cant use anything to slow down the tact since you can just use motion accletor. it will affect the whoel team but again the engineer is just going to be holding a gun and not really getting much of a chance to shoot anything.

    see the thing is swords get 80% penetration, on top of that full omega gear gives crit, then we have 3 doffs as well to boost that crit. also the borg will not adapt to that damage.any ground stf can be completed with in a 6 minute time frame with a whole team using swords.

    so i just ask that maybe the embassy kits gets another look at. not to nerf the tact kit but to bring engy and sci up to par with it. also maybe take a look at the ground and space weps from the star base.

    Regarding the requesting better gear from a possible pvp reputation system, if that ever happens, that will be the last day Perfect World Entertainment or Cryptic Studios will ever get my 14.99$ per month for the gold membership subscription, and they will never see my account log on again. Heck, even this recent update was virtually crossing the line, but because I like Star Trek Online, I have not lost hope yet. But, this is not permanent. I am an avid pvper, and curently, grinding both a fleet starbase with a group of friends. Just so you know, when I say Grinding, I mean Grinding. We're a group of 3 people, and we have gotten to fleet level 4, starbase tier 2, and almost embassy tier 1 in less then 2 weeks, without trying our hardest. If a pvp reputation system were to come out, it would set everything off balance. Pvp isn't meant to have a group of weapons, kits, or armor/shields, not to mention that everyone should wear, because it's better then the best, which you would get from the fleet starbase, or the exchange. the stuff that you get off of the fleet starbase is 10 times better then the stuff that you get off of the exchange.... Sorry, back on topic... Right now, there are 4 Reputation systems, 2 personal, and 2 fleet. If we add a third personal reputation, which would hinder about 90% of the game that is not in a large tier 5 fleet that requires no grinding, it would set everything off balance, not to mention kill off the already (sadly) dying PvP., not necessarily kill things as well as a tac. In my personal opinion, the only reason that you would be complaining about the engineer embassy kit not being as powerful as the embassy tac kit, is because you wouldn't know how to run either the kit, or the engineer, or what their role in the game is.
    Love,
    Radar =/\=
  • lordagamemnonb5lordagamemnonb5 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    solomace wrote: »
    You on Red Bull or something? ;) I admire the strength it must take to lift those pom poms of yours...:)

    Limitless supply of Red Bull and Monster are perks for enlisting in the Cryptic Defense Forces. :cool:
    How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
    Star Trek: The Original Grind
    Star Trek: The Next Grind
    Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
    Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
  • thebumblethebumble Member Posts: 2
    edited February 2013
    neoakiraii wrote: »
    That camel always regenerates , but in the end they will add FM it may not be to the foundry and then everyone will forgive and forget ,and the cycle continues .

    The cycle has always been it can never be broken, it is eternal.

    Resistance is futile.

    Oh, it'll end someday. Most likely as soon as another Star Trek MMO appears. Or something close to it that will pull people away. This game is hemorrhaging players, but it doesn't seem like it because of all the new accounts being made, that are being abandoned a month in.

    Sort of like Cryptics numbers. Stahl said not every player is hitting the dilithium cap. How many people hit the cap with every alt they have in the game on a daily basis?

    Big Fleets have alot of members, but how many of them are alts? I can bet you their not using their alts everyday, but I bet Craptic counts them.

    Any decent player hits his/her dilithium cap on their main. Cryptic just wants to control every aspect of your game. They want to micro-manage your every action so they can put you in their straight narrow version of how the game should be played, how fast you should advance and what lock boxes you should buy.
  • kamiyama317kamiyama317 Member Posts: 1,295 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    dastahl wrote: »
    Over the next several months we will be adjusting where Fleet Marks are granted to be more in line with our original design - Fleet Marks are for Fleet Gameplay. This means that Fleet Marks will be granted in more places where Fleets group up for missions, because the reason you need Fleet Marks is to benefit the Fleet.

    Please add a small amount of fleet marks to Borg STF's. Maybe 10 or 15 for normals and 30 or 35 for elites?

    While you don't have to do them with your fleet, you do have to do them in a group. At the least I think STF's are more deserving of fleet mark rewards than the Foundry. It would also be really convenient for those casual players that only have an hour or two to play each day since they could grind Omega rep and get a small amount of fleet marks at the same time.
  • lordagamemnonb5lordagamemnonb5 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    petst0ne wrote: »
    Regarding the requesting better gear from a possible pvp reputation system, if that ever happens, that will be the last day Perfect World Entertainment or Cryptic Studios will ever get my 14.99$ per month for the gold membership subscription, and they will never see my account log on again. Heck, even this recent update was virtually crossing the line, but because I like Star Trek Online, I have not lost hope yet. But, this is not permanent. I am an avid pvper, and curently, grinding both a fleet starbase with a group of friends. Just so you know, when I say Grinding, I mean Grinding. We're a group of 3 people, and we have gotten to fleet level 4, starbase tier 2, and almost embassy tier 1 in less then 2 weeks, without trying our hardest. If a pvp reputation system were to come out, it would set everything off balance. Pvp isn't meant to have a group of weapons, kits, or armor/shields, not to mention that everyone should wear, because it's better then the best, which you would get from the fleet starbase, or the exchange. the stuff that you get off of the fleet starbase is 10 times better then the stuff that you get off of the exchange.... Sorry, back on topic... Right now, there are 4 Reputation systems, 2 personal, and 2 fleet. If we add a third personal reputation, which would hinder about 90% of the game that is not in a large tier 5 fleet that requires no grinding, it would set everything off balance, not to mention kill off the already (sadly) dying PvP.


    I agree. The PvP reputation practically killed SWTOR PvP (it was called expertise there). At least here gear is viable in both PvP and PvE, but to grind for gear that would only be usable in one? Bad idea. Not to mention you would have to intentially get roflstomped to get enough marks to get PvP only gear.
    How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
    Star Trek: The Original Grind
    Star Trek: The Next Grind
    Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
    Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
  • weylandjuarezweylandjuarez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    In a couple of weeks, what has some of us so up-in-arms will be a moot point. At least, that is my feeling on the matter.

    I think the (false) assumption you're making is that everyone thought STO was peachy after the hastily and ill-considered 'rewards' were TRIBBLE in after S7 went disastrously live.

    Many, many players still aren't 'happy' with the changes that were made but the restoration of Dilithium rewards and the quite honestly ridiculous repeatable IOR mission at least gave the impression that Cryptic had realised the scale of its blunder and wanted to make amends.

    This latest move though shows that they're still not done trying to manipulate the player-base into playing the game the way they want us to play it - it also makes me wonder what new ways they'll find to TRIBBLE us over in May since you can guarantee that any new fluff they deliver will be a smoke-screen designed to cover their real intentions much as Season 7 was/is.
    Please join our peaceful protest to help make STO a better game
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Proudly not contributing to PWE's bottom-line since October 2012
  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    boglejam73 wrote: »
    You know... here is a crazy thought.

    Sell Fleet marks.

    I mean, I still wouldn't buy them. But if a small fleet really wanted to go fast thru the progression and had some extra cash. it'd be a winning proposition for them and Cryptic.

    And the players with the glut of dilithium could convert to zen to buy fleet marks...

    Absolutely not. That would give Cryptic zero incentive, and in fact a major financial disincentive, to fix the problems with fleet mark scarcity.
  • suuperduudesuuperduude Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Why not put a contact in Starbases that will let you pick up a foundry mission and give fleet marks but no Dilithium?

    If it's picked up in the starbase, then it's obviously a fleet mission?
    --
    Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
  • boglejam73boglejam73 Member Posts: 890 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Absolutely not. That would give Cryptic zero incentive, and in fact a major financial disincentive, to fix the problems with fleet mark scarcity.

    Oh yeah, I totally agree. But my point is that they probably won't fix the scarcity issue anyway. Or, if you believe Dan...maybe fix it in May. Maybe.

    So, if it isn't going to be fixed, then why not just sell the marks outright so at least the 5 man fleets with cash and/or dilithium can hack a win out of this clusterf**k? :D
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This discussion has been closed.