Can't the creatures/ships be set to the lowest possible form? IE. instead of Negh'Vars make them BoPs. Would this make the loot drops any less valuable?
Can't the creatures/ships be set to the lowest possible form? IE. instead of Negh'Vars make them BoPs. Would this make the loot drops any less valuable?
The loot table is set by the type of group, so a battleship group will give battleship grade loot. This is how the EC grinding versions using timid gave great loot with zero risk. Timid is an effect set outside of the group.
While yes, making them BoP will give BoP level loot and make fighting a timid mob easier, the issue is still that timid things will fight, which is what breaks things for authors
The ability to flag a creature as not dropping loot is currently not linked in any way to its behavior conditions. Thus, we don't have a good way to set up Foundry critters so that when they are set to not fight back, they don't drop loot.
It might be possible for us to create a default critter that does not move or fight, which is set to never drop loot by default, upon which you can place a costume. If we can do something like that, you could place this "object" anywhere and costume it appropriately as a ship, a creature, a crate, whatever.
I'll talk to Zero tomorrow to see if we can work out a way to do this. No promises -- Foundry is not my normal area of expertise and I do still have a lot of other work to do! But I will at least do some brainstorming on the issue.
Thank you, any help you can provide is greatly appreciated.
I tried one of the foundry missions that has been changed before finding out about all of this.
Was not too disappointed and decided to do the Tour the Universe thing instead. Lag caused me to be disconnected as i was leaving the 3rd zone.
And it occurs to me - between a 20 min foundry mish which could earn me 400k and a 30+ min 'officially approved' event with earns me 350k, which is the most grindy?
Really, what is the difference?
Let me tell you. When i am tired and in no mood for a hectic rush for gain i can enjoy just blasting a bunch of ships. If i am in a better mood then i can do the tour but that involves crowded zones, overstretched servers struggling to deal with the load and quite often a feeling of great frustration as it all goes wrong.
This game is fun but for a whiole now it has been performing so badly that taking away an option from the players seems like folly.
After i DC'd i found that i had no desire to log on again -maybe the servers have fallen over, perhaps there will be a 2 hour downtime that will turn into 5, i don't know.
What i do know is that my ability to relax, enjoy myself and maybe make enough EC to buy a lockbox key once in a while has been significantly impaired.
There were larger concerns than just 'letting people play the game the way they want to play it' It had to do alot more with the risk vs reward balance being highly skewed, and the economic impact that knocks on from it.
Trust me, I am rather annoyed at the functionality this spec game going away, especially since it puts another damper on being able to create the mythical destructible object that doesnt move. In one of these threads jheinig came in and said they would look into creating something that would give back the functionality of timid, but not drop loot. For at least some of us, thats all we are looking for. For those that were using it as an EC fountain...there is not much I can say to placate you beyond the fact that I know for a fact there are missions that 1)meet the repeatable requirements and 2)drop a pretty high level of eq without overwhelming you
To be fair, the 'economic' impact is negligable, since there is a limit to how many drops you can get from the Foundry in a 24 hour period and most of the grinder missions hit that limit before they'd even finished. So really, the impact to the 'economy' is a non issue.
Besides, there is a lot more wrong with the in game economy than people farming a measly few hundred thousand EC.
I am glad he's said he'll bring that up, but given the fact that it's broken missions now, and he's only said he'll bring it up not guaranteeing that they can even do it, let alone put a time scale on how long that would take if indeed it is possible, means they've simply broken a vital part of the game mechanics for several Foundry missions (not referring to the grinders) and have no clear plans to remedy it.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Didn't know there was a difference. That maybe part of the problem as battleships tend to explode when destroyed leaving little salvage when surrendering supply ships leave lots of loot.
...Apparently modelled completely opposite by our dev team.
Fine by me, but there are other bugs, that have been around since the beta that are needing more attention then this timide bug. And if it was so urgent, that they fixed it correctly. For example : "Easy Money" mission : before, yeah, correct, it was open fire and smoke a cig in between. Now, it's more, fire one shot and 25 angry battle cruisers are upon you with every nasty trick they know. It's became the reverse of what it is before with the result that it isn't fun either, but frustration.
It might be possible for us to create a default critter that does not move or fight, which is set to never drop loot by default, upon which you can place a costume. If we can do something like that, you could place this "object" anywhere and costume it appropriately as a ship, a creature, a crate, whatever.
Yes please! This would solve all the issues the 'timid' change has with my projects.
I'll talk to Zero tomorrow to see if we can work out a way to do this. No promises -- Foundry is not my normal area of expertise and I do still have a lot of other work to do! But I will at least do some brainstorming on the issue.
Thank you very much. You do so much for the community, and every effort is appreciated:)
Take a look at my Foundry missions! Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
There is a limit, per person... multiply that by 100, and you see the drop table start less and less of a bell curve climb. Its the overall picture that is worth looking at, not the individual.
I agree, the change is not the desired one in any way shape or form, but unfortunately its the quick fix, and why we cant have nice things
Ah, the forum cliques..I hate to say it, but you guys that got this nerfed for the hell of getting it nerfed are now akin to the 'jem bug is not op' crowd, or the 'sci is too powerful so nerf them so we can pew pew and be l33t' crowds - not a place I'd want to find myself
Oh well, I'm sure you'll get hundreds more people playing your missions now and that warm fuzzy feeling will keep you going as foundry is consigned to the backburner as it becomes less and less used - after all, we all know minority groups like the kdf get their updates pushed back as 'the numbers don't support it'
Good show fellas..you made the rod to break your own back.
(Fyi, I don't enjoy the 'timid' massacres, but I did the sensible thing and just did not play them - one cannot nor should not decide how someone enjoys their leisure time unless its detrimental to others or against the tos - to do so makes you yet another tedious tinpot 'fun' dictator that just adds another nail in the coffin of the game)
Originally Posted by jheinig View Post
It might be possible for us to create a default critter that does not move or fight, which is set to never drop loot by default, upon which you can place a costume. If we can do something like that, you could place this "object" anywhere and costume it appropriately as a ship, a creature, a crate, whatever.
Am not sure a stationary, passive critter would be of any use to me BUT a neutral or freighter NPC mob that I can assign patrol points to would be a great help. That would negate my need to recostume timid battleships into freighters and eliminate the problem this new fix created.
I haven't been able to play STO this week, but a mission I created and posted might have become one of these farm missions as my costumed ships will now be fighting it out with uncostumed military ships, so my guess it the player only need sit back and watch, and collect loot instead of defending the timid.
Yes you made grinders useless... however... why the hell do you have to nerf all the loot also.
I see no dam reason to waste my time on the missions if i run out of loot before im even half way through - there isnt even a damn end reward that's worth the time.
Just set the loot amount back normal and have better control over player made grinders - and delete them.
Right now im better off doing random daily then spending a hour for the tiny exp at the end.
And no, its not all about "having fun" unless u have been nolifing and grinded to the best gear and ships already. Not everyone has the time to just waste hours "for fun" for no real rewards.
And no, its not all about "having fun" unless u have been nolifing and grinded to the best gear and ships already. Not everyone has the time to just waste hours "for fun" for no real rewards.
STO is a game. Games are supposed to be played for entertainment. What's the point of playing if you don't get enjoyment out of it?
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
I am a little confused as to why some foundry missions are once again changed. There are missions that you can shoot ships and pick up loot, and yes it got you a lot of EC. So the DEVs went in and changed them all so the all the ships shoot back at you. So they went in to people missions and changed them so we can not get it so easy, when it fell under the rules and time that they set forth, in thier game. Some think its stupid, but it was a way for some of us to get EC to play the game. Put it back, I liked it how else can we afford the HUGE exchange prices, its not hurting anyone. You could make those missions not count for the marks and DL but let us get the drops.
I don't know why I bother to post comments in these forums: not once have I ever had the courtesy of a reply from a developer or moderator, but still, one must continue to hope.
I will reiterate my comments from before, since this forum appears to be both a complaint against the change, and also comments and suggestions on how to set up a Foundry mission under the new guidelines. Grinding is necessary, and it became necessary when Season 6 was launched. Unlike the previous seasons, where there were a large number of story-driven missions, Season 6 was a few missions and the Fleet system.
The Fleet system. A system where grinding/farming has become necessary to submit the vast quantities of commodities, marks and dilithium. Then there was Season 7: New Romulus. This contains only a few actual missions. The rest? Grinding/Farming. If you look on STO Wiki, someone has thoughtfully put up a chart of what is needed to get 1 toon on 1 rep system to Tier V. And it's about 5? million energy credits, and a shed-load of rep marks. So, if you taken away our ability to make money quickly, what are we supposed to do?
I would appreciate an actual answer from someone regarding this, quite valid, concern.
[In response to Hank's thread, got ninja-merged while I was typing my reply]
At the moment the market is saturated, so running the missions now (on average) is worth less than it was a week or 2 ago.
The more people getting the drops, the more items on the exchange.
The more items on the exchange, the cheaper the items become.
Net result, you as a seller have more EC to spend than before running the mission, but the stuff you need possibly costs less to buy.
Whether this change will cause some players to stop running the farming missions and therefore make exchange prices increase again... time will tell.
Another problem these foundry missions cause is that they devalue items picked up OUTSIDE the farming missions, which is bad for players that are playing the game in the correct* way.
*in Cryptic's view. I have no opinion either way, I can see several positives and negatives of both sides of the argument.
you cant enjoy the game if you don't have the gear and level for it... its nowhere near fun to get 1 shot by battleships. Or if you cant even scratch their shields. Itsn ot even the grinding missions... normal oens also - you dotn have end rewards and you run out of loots most likely half way through the mission.
So all you can do is max one mission per day, else its quite waste of time.
If you disabled the grinding missions - why does the loot have to be nerfed. hows it different from world missions now? You can repeat them aswell.
Well, I guess it's time for another sternly-worded e-mail chain to the customer service team, since I've been soundly ignored in the forums for the last three days.
[In response to Hank's thread, got ninja-merged while I was typing my reply]
At the moment the market is saturated, so running the missions now (on average) is worth less than it was a week or 2 ago.
The more people getting the drops, the more items on the exchange.
The more items on the exchange, the cheaper the items become.
Net result, you as a seller have more EC to spend than before running the mission, but the stuff you need possibly costs less to buy.
Whether this change will cause some players to stop running the farming missions and therefore make exchange prices increase again... time will tell.
Another problem these foundry missions cause is that they devalue items picked up OUTSIDE the farming missions, which is bad for players that are playing the game in the correct* way.
*in Cryptic's view. I have no opinion either way, I can see several positives and negatives of both sides of the argument.
Well, yes, if you sell them on the exchange it does that. I tried selling like, three, out of the perhaps 30 pieces of loot I got once, all of them were blue RAUH items, and not one sold. So I just took to doing what my friends did and went over to the nearest NPC vendor, and sold all of it to them. That's what I do now, though I do occasionally grab stuff that would be an upgrade for my or another ship I have from there and put it on. And if we're selling to NPCs anyways, the exchange rates stay where they are because barely anyone is selling their grind loot on the exchange.
Rather than that just play the missions on every character and down rate them all with single star reviews.
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
Comments
Actually that would be kinda neat, commodities dropping from freighters and probably 'civilian' versions of things (read that as common)
The loot table is set by the type of group, so a battleship group will give battleship grade loot. This is how the EC grinding versions using timid gave great loot with zero risk. Timid is an effect set outside of the group.
While yes, making them BoP will give BoP level loot and make fighting a timid mob easier, the issue is still that timid things will fight, which is what breaks things for authors
Thank you, any help you can provide is greatly appreciated.
Commander, Starfleet Corps of Engineers • 7th Fleet
Commanding Officer, U.S.S. HEART OF OAK • NX-1759-B • Odyssey class Star Cruiser ( Lexington Tactical Configuration))
(Steam - feel free to follow/friend me : )
Was not too disappointed and decided to do the Tour the Universe thing instead. Lag caused me to be disconnected as i was leaving the 3rd zone.
And it occurs to me - between a 20 min foundry mish which could earn me 400k and a 30+ min 'officially approved' event with earns me 350k, which is the most grindy?
Really, what is the difference?
Let me tell you. When i am tired and in no mood for a hectic rush for gain i can enjoy just blasting a bunch of ships. If i am in a better mood then i can do the tour but that involves crowded zones, overstretched servers struggling to deal with the load and quite often a feeling of great frustration as it all goes wrong.
This game is fun but for a whiole now it has been performing so badly that taking away an option from the players seems like folly.
After i DC'd i found that i had no desire to log on again -maybe the servers have fallen over, perhaps there will be a 2 hour downtime that will turn into 5, i don't know.
What i do know is that my ability to relax, enjoy myself and maybe make enough EC to buy a lockbox key once in a while has been significantly impaired.
To be fair, the 'economic' impact is negligable, since there is a limit to how many drops you can get from the Foundry in a 24 hour period and most of the grinder missions hit that limit before they'd even finished. So really, the impact to the 'economy' is a non issue.
Besides, there is a lot more wrong with the in game economy than people farming a measly few hundred thousand EC.
I am glad he's said he'll bring that up, but given the fact that it's broken missions now, and he's only said he'll bring it up not guaranteeing that they can even do it, let alone put a time scale on how long that would take if indeed it is possible, means they've simply broken a vital part of the game mechanics for several Foundry missions (not referring to the grinders) and have no clear plans to remedy it.
...Apparently modelled completely opposite by our dev team.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
My character Tsin'xing
I thought it was rather cute in its crudeness. And he did try to create different domino effects, so points on design.
Yes please! This would solve all the issues the 'timid' change has with my projects.
Thank you very much. You do so much for the community, and every effort is appreciated:)
Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I agree, the change is not the desired one in any way shape or form, but unfortunately its the quick fix, and why we cant have nice things
Please keep the forum rules in mind when commenting, folks; you're doing a pretty good job so far, this is just a reminder, not singling anybody out.
thanks,
syberghost, Community Moderator
Oh well, I'm sure you'll get hundreds more people playing your missions now and that warm fuzzy feeling will keep you going as foundry is consigned to the backburner as it becomes less and less used - after all, we all know minority groups like the kdf get their updates pushed back as 'the numbers don't support it'
Good show fellas..you made the rod to break your own back.
(Fyi, I don't enjoy the 'timid' massacres, but I did the sensible thing and just did not play them - one cannot nor should not decide how someone enjoys their leisure time unless its detrimental to others or against the tos - to do so makes you yet another tedious tinpot 'fun' dictator that just adds another nail in the coffin of the game)
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Am I right ?
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
My character Tsin'xing
It allowed players to correct the mistakes of season 7.
Am not sure a stationary, passive critter would be of any use to me BUT a neutral or freighter NPC mob that I can assign patrol points to would be a great help. That would negate my need to recostume timid battleships into freighters and eliminate the problem this new fix created.
I haven't been able to play STO this week, but a mission I created and posted might have become one of these farm missions as my costumed ships will now be fighting it out with uncostumed military ships, so my guess it the player only need sit back and watch, and collect loot instead of defending the timid.
Thanks.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
BTW, should you update your sig since the the B'rel qualifies?
Nouveau riche LTS member
Mission name: Supply Lines 1
designator: ST-HJ48QFVXW
Expected playtime 15-20 minutes.
It's never been reviewed in the month it's been posted, so you'll prolly need to be a reviewer.
Oh, and the B'rel 'upgrade' is so specialized I refuse to count it.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
These are the guys that in high school called the cops to bust party's they were not invited to.
I see no dam reason to waste my time on the missions if i run out of loot before im even half way through - there isnt even a damn end reward that's worth the time.
Just set the loot amount back normal and have better control over player made grinders - and delete them.
Right now im better off doing random daily then spending a hour for the tiny exp at the end.
And no, its not all about "having fun" unless u have been nolifing and grinded to the best gear and ships already. Not everyone has the time to just waste hours "for fun" for no real rewards.
STO is a game. Games are supposed to be played for entertainment. What's the point of playing if you don't get enjoyment out of it?
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
I will reiterate my comments from before, since this forum appears to be both a complaint against the change, and also comments and suggestions on how to set up a Foundry mission under the new guidelines. Grinding is necessary, and it became necessary when Season 6 was launched. Unlike the previous seasons, where there were a large number of story-driven missions, Season 6 was a few missions and the Fleet system.
The Fleet system. A system where grinding/farming has become necessary to submit the vast quantities of commodities, marks and dilithium. Then there was Season 7: New Romulus. This contains only a few actual missions. The rest? Grinding/Farming. If you look on STO Wiki, someone has thoughtfully put up a chart of what is needed to get 1 toon on 1 rep system to Tier V. And it's about 5? million energy credits, and a shed-load of rep marks. So, if you taken away our ability to make money quickly, what are we supposed to do?
I would appreciate an actual answer from someone regarding this, quite valid, concern.
Kind Regards.
At the moment the market is saturated, so running the missions now (on average) is worth less than it was a week or 2 ago.
The more people getting the drops, the more items on the exchange.
The more items on the exchange, the cheaper the items become.
Net result, you as a seller have more EC to spend than before running the mission, but the stuff you need possibly costs less to buy.
Whether this change will cause some players to stop running the farming missions and therefore make exchange prices increase again... time will tell.
Another problem these foundry missions cause is that they devalue items picked up OUTSIDE the farming missions, which is bad for players that are playing the game in the correct* way.
*in Cryptic's view. I have no opinion either way, I can see several positives and negatives of both sides of the argument.
So all you can do is max one mission per day, else its quite waste of time.
If you disabled the grinding missions - why does the loot have to be nerfed. hows it different from world missions now? You can repeat them aswell.
We're supposed to accept taking endless months to accomplish these things, and like it. :rolleyes:
Well, yes, if you sell them on the exchange it does that. I tried selling like, three, out of the perhaps 30 pieces of loot I got once, all of them were blue RAUH items, and not one sold. So I just took to doing what my friends did and went over to the nearest NPC vendor, and sold all of it to them. That's what I do now, though I do occasionally grab stuff that would be an upgrade for my or another ship I have from there and put it on. And if we're selling to NPCs anyways, the exchange rates stay where they are because barely anyone is selling their grind loot on the exchange.
Rather than that just play the missions on every character and down rate them all with single star reviews.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.