So, did everyone read the notice that Timid creatures will now fight back when they take damage? Can we now put this whole stupid argument to rest now that the main issue has been put to rest?
In my opinion, as long as they're actually having to FIGHT to earn their loot I've got no problem with the non storyline missions.
Play Star Trek: Allegiance - my first series in the Foundry
Put the fire extinguishers away, this isn't a bad post.
The chaos about grinder missions and crying 'exploit' and the flamewar that ensued? Patched up. It's both a good thing and a bad thing.
It's a good thing because the anti-grinders got what they wanted: a fix for an exploit. Anything set to Timid creature fights back, and in the case of one of my favorites 'Easy Money,' that means you've got seven waves of 25 battleships per wave who will happily send high volumes of ordnance at you. The challenge rating of those missions just skyrocketed all the way up to 'bring my brown pants.'
The bad thing is that the wave of backlash from the pro-grinder crowd is gonna get nasty in a heartbeat. Hey, I like free, effortless rewards just as much as you do. Just gotta do it through talkie missions now. The loot drops can all come from anyplace else, and as far as the uncharted areas go (Delta Volanis and whatnot), that's still infinite from what I can see.
Just wait till you get into a mission with lots of reskinned battleships (a workaround for a different foundry lack of item) and they go bonkers when attacked instead of running away as they were originally scripted.
Just wait till you get into a mission with lots of reskinned battleships (a workaround for a different foundry lack of item) and they go bonkers when attacked instead of running away as they were originally scripted.
Hmmmm... that gives me an idea.
Is it gonna be an idea that'll make me regret fitting a Chroniton torp launcher on my ship... ? :eek:
Yep, every single Foundry "guardian" on record on this forum wanting to "do something" about those missions should pat themselves on the back. Mission accomplished.
Yep, every single Foundry "guardian" on record on this forum wanting to "do something" about those missions should pat themselves on the back. Mission accomplished.
So, did everyone read the notice that Timid creatures will now fight back when they take damage? Can we now put this whole stupid argument to rest now that the main issue has been put to rest?
In my opinion, as long as they're actually having to FIGHT to earn their loot I've got no problem with the non storyline missions.
The whiners won. This will only embolden them into ferreting out other missions on the foundry they want gone or other nerfs to the game.
We'll be watching for feedback about this change. In the end, players shouldn't expect to get "epic loots" from enemies that are not a challenge -- that just doesn't fit in with the spirit of the game.
However! One of the Foundry authors who follows me on Twitter sparked an interesting conversation about how this change will allow players to create a Borg mission where the Borg don't attack you until they feel they are threatened. I can think of a couple missions I've played where this could fit in quite nicely. :cool:
We'll be watching for feedback about this change. In the end, players shouldn't expect to get "epic loots" from enemies that are not a challenge -- that just doesn't fit in with the spirit of the game.
However! One of the Foundry authors who follows me on Twitter sparked an interesting conversation about how this change will allow players to create a Borg mission where the Borg don't attack you until they feel they are threatened. I can think of a couple missions I've played where this could fit in quite nicely. :cool:
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
...whoa. This thread just got high-profile...
Also, think of what this could do for other kinds of pure-combat missions: I've been kicking around an idea of an 'arena' where you could just choose what mobs/ships you want to fight. Add in a concept of something like 'Starfleet / The Empire is conducting a test of its officers to see how well they can strategize in hostile situations' or even 'I love this hunting ground; they taught the bears how to use guns and everything!' and make it free access to any level? All I gotta do is figure out how to use the Foundry and publish it and a lot of people have their stress relief back. (Myself included.)
We'll be watching for feedback about this change. In the end, players shouldn't expect to get "epic loots" from enemies that are not a challenge -- that just doesn't fit in with the spirit of the game.
However! One of the Foundry authors who follows me on Twitter sparked an interesting conversation about how this change will allow players to create a Borg mission where the Borg don't attack you until they feel they are threatened. I can think of a couple missions I've played where this could fit in quite nicely. :cool:
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Interesting. I hadn't thought of this. This could add some functionality with triggers as well. A player could choose sides of a civil war, some of the friendlies might get involved during the first fight if splash damage makes them target the player on their side, but based on component complete mob deaths the second round could spawn friendlies that help in the fight against the side the player chooses.
Interesting. I hadn't thought of this. This could add some functionality with triggers as well. A player could choose sides of a civil war, some of the friendlies might get involved during the first fight if splash damage makes them target the player on their side, but based on component complete mob deaths the second round could spawn friendlies that help in the fight against the side the player chooses.
And the gears begin turning Foundry Challenge #7: Feature "Timid"
Now I need to edit my Borg mission. There is a point in which the player is no longer seen as a threat by some working drones. I should change them to enemies and set them to passive.
Now I need to edit my Borg mission. There is a point in which the player is no longer seen as a threat by some working drones. I should change them to enemies and set them to passive.
However! One of the Foundry authors who follows me on Twitter sparked an interesting conversation about how this change will allow players to create a Borg mission where the Borg don't attack you until they feel they are threatened. I can think of a couple missions I've played where this could fit in quite nicely. :cool:
Wow...yeah, you're right...that actually WOULD be more in line with the Borg MO as seen on the series. Drones in particular should be set this way, IMHO, for "realism."
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
We'll be watching for feedback about this change. In the end, players shouldn't expect to get "epic loots" from enemies that are not a challenge -- that just doesn't fit in with the spirit of the game.
However! One of the Foundry authors who follows me on Twitter sparked an interesting conversation about how this change will allow players to create a Borg mission where the Borg don't attack you until they feel they are threatened. I can think of a couple missions I've played where this could fit in quite nicely. :cool:
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
My opinion is mixed. I think the new functionality is good in itself, because it provides for an interesting option. However, I would like to see the original timid creature behavior return again once it has been adjusted so it can't be abused. Sometimes you want civilians who will just run around scared and not fight back, or freighters that will try to flee and not fight back.
I think the name of the current implementation should be changed to something like "Non-aggressive creature", since they will fight back if they are attacked, but will not aggro you directly. I think that is a more accurate description of this behavior, since they may not be attacking for any number of reasons (ex: not sure whether you're an enemy, so taking a wait and see attitude and letting you make the first move).
What would make me happy is if the original behavior was re-implemented, after making it so that creatures set to "timid" do not drop loot. We'd then have both "Non-Aggressive" and "Timid".
In addition, if we could set "flight routes" for timid creatures, that would be cool because we could control where they run to (maybe trying to get to a safe area, or escape), but that would just be gravy.
So, did everyone read the notice that Timid creatures will now fight back when they take damage? Can we now put this whole stupid argument to rest now that the main issue has been put to rest?
In my opinion, as long as they're actually having to FIGHT to earn their loot I've got no problem with the non storyline missions.
Do you know for how many people in STO these whiners have screwed it up ??? More then you can imaging. 'Coz frankly, the loot during the gameplay (missions) and endgame is far from rewarding, bearing in mind that leveling in the reputation clickmyselfnuts is a 100000 EC average, which is not managable if you got only batteries, junk and lock boxes stuffed in the throat. Or do we have all to do that stupid mary-go-around Tour De Universe, which is so dull as the behind of a cow.
My opinion is mixed. I think the new functionality is good in itself, because it provides for an interesting option. However, I would like to see the original timid creature behavior return again once it has been adjusted so it can't be abused. Sometimes you want civilians who will just run around scared and not fight back, or freighters that will try to flee and not fight back.
I think the name of the current implementation should be changed to something like "Non-aggressive creature", since they will fight back if they are attacked, but will not aggro you directly. I think that is a more accurate description of this behavior, since they may not be attacking for any number of reasons (ex: not sure whether you're an enemy, so taking a wait and see attitude and letting you make the first move).
What would make me happy is if the original behavior was re-implemented, after making it so that creatures set to "timid" do not drop loot. We'd then have both "Non-Aggressive" and "Timid".
In addition, if we could set "flight routes" for timid creatures, that would be cool because we could control where they run to (maybe trying to get to a safe area, or escape), but that would just be gravy.
I think two options would work for everyone.
1. Does not shoot back, but drops no loot.
2. Passive until shot at, drops loot.
Chewson Pwan - VA
S.S. Doff Lundgren
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Just to preface this, I am not upset about the Timid change, but I am irked at how it wasn't announced before or in the patch notes, since people use the function for more then just the farm missions.
My other problem is as a player using a phrase like "against the spirit of the game" seems to be a little hypocritical because I feel the lockbox gambling to get a cool ship is no different. For a really low random chance to get something that people might spend hundreds of dollars on any better then the timid function? Its just the way my mind works, for I think a statement along the lines of "We never intended the Foundry to be used this way" would have been a better way to describe the change.
Just to preface this, I am not upset about the Timid change, but I am irked at how it wasn't announced before or in the patch notes, since people use the function for more then just the farm missions.
Would it not be easier to just set "timid" creatures, not to drop loot? Or if they do, it's only consumables/lockbox type loot???
I don't think that's possible as I'm fairly certain that the type of loot is determined by the rank of the enemy (Ensign, Captain, Battleship, etc.) themselves. Authors just pick how they want that enemy to behave.
I don't think that's possible as I'm fairly certain that the type of loot is determined by the rank of the enemy (Ensign, Captain, Battleship, etc.) themselves. Authors just pick how they want that enemy to behave.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Then make a rank 0 that wont fight back and drop loot?
Chewson Pwan - VA
S.S. Doff Lundgren
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I don't think that's possible as I'm fairly certain that the type of loot is determined by the rank of the enemy (Ensign, Captain, Battleship, etc.) themselves. Authors just pick how they want that enemy to behave.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
That's what I figured. I kind of expected loot drops to be programmed worlds apart from Npc behavior.
It would be nice, as suggested, if we could get some kind of rank 0 npc group that could be set to passive, but I suspect that it's an all or nothing type of feature.
What I really need is an invisible object that can targeted and destroyed. How does Cryptic do it with doors that a player has to target and destroy? Those don't drop loot.
If we had something like that, it would add all kinds of cool functionality. We could use it in place of a timid npc. It wouldn't move, but we could fake it with the npc set to disappear following an explosion triggered after the death of the invis object.
What I really need is an invisible object that can targeted and destroyed. How does Cryptic do it with doors that a player has to target and destroy? Those don't drop loot.
Ooh, good thinking.
Chewson Pwan - VA
S.S. Doff Lundgren
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
And just sitting there with your ship on Auto attack is fun? You are grinding EC.... utilising an exploit to do so. These grinders are not fun, they didn't require you to do anything but make sure you have the target in your sights.
Don't blame the reputation system for this. Just doing the Tau Dewa Sector patrol daily provided enough EC for me to meet my daily EC reputation requirements for both Romulan and Omega reps. I am at Tier 5 in Romulan and Omega Rep. and have been for a month or so.
Just PLAY THE GAME, there is no need for anyone to resort to exploits for this game.
The recent change hasn't really been a NERF in that abilities and powers have not reduced in effectiveness. It was a systems change by the people at cryptic who funnily enough want to keep their in-game economy balanced and under control.
No mission has been singled out, no user has been banned, no other repurcussions have been laid out except that a very specific way to abuse the system to gain loot and EC has become invalidated.
EDIT:
There are plenty of short missions that qualify for the IOR, search for them. If you want your dilithium and fleet marks there are plenty of missions that will take you 20-30 minutes. And seeing as the repeatable has a 30 min cooldown there is no point in not taking longer missions.
We'll be watching for feedback about this change. In the end, players shouldn't expect to get "epic loots" from enemies that are not a challenge -- that just doesn't fit in with the spirit of the game.
However! One of the Foundry authors who follows me on Twitter sparked an interesting conversation about how this change will allow players to create a Borg mission where the Borg don't attack you until they feel they are threatened. I can think of a couple missions I've played where this could fit in quite nicely. :cool:
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
I like this new behaviour. I can already think of interesting ways to use it in foundry.
Yeah, the loot idea would take recoding a different part of the game than this fix, and is probably harder. This might be better in the long run as it gives us a new toy.
I want to say that once I got a door to drop a lock box, but that was when high yield torps were dropping them as well. Pretty sure that got changed, since I haven't seen it recently.
That's what I figured. I kind of expected loot drops to be programmed worlds apart from Npc behavior.
It would be nice, as suggested, if we could get some kind of rank 0 npc group that could be set to passive, but I suspect that it's an all or nothing type of feature.
What I really need is an invisible object that can targeted and destroyed. How does Cryptic do it with doors that a player has to target and destroy? Those don't drop loot.
If we had something like that, it would add all kinds of cool functionality. We could use it in place of a timid npc. It wouldn't move, but we could fake with the npc set to disappear following an explosion triggered after the death of the invis object.
I simulate that by having an interactable object that spawns an explosion when you interact with it.
The way cryptic does it seems to use a rank 0 enemy of a special type that is immobile
There are plenty of short missions that qualify for the IOR, search for them. If you want your dilithium and fleet marks there are plenty of missions that will take you 20-30 minutes. And seeing as the repeatable has a 30 min cooldown there is no point in not taking longer missions.
If you guys want a short, but legit grinder, see my "Gladiator Rumble." It's not a mission I'm proud of, but it's a legit way to grind the IOR. You won't get 500k ECs worth of loot, and you actually have to earn the loot.
Comments
In my opinion, as long as they're actually having to FIGHT to earn their loot I've got no problem with the non storyline missions.
The chaos about grinder missions and crying 'exploit' and the flamewar that ensued? Patched up. It's both a good thing and a bad thing.
It's a good thing because the anti-grinders got what they wanted: a fix for an exploit. Anything set to Timid creature fights back, and in the case of one of my favorites 'Easy Money,' that means you've got seven waves of 25 battleships per wave who will happily send high volumes of ordnance at you. The challenge rating of those missions just skyrocketed all the way up to 'bring my brown pants.'
The bad thing is that the wave of backlash from the pro-grinder crowd is gonna get nasty in a heartbeat. Hey, I like free, effortless rewards just as much as you do. Just gotta do it through talkie missions now. The loot drops can all come from anyplace else, and as far as the uncharted areas go (Delta Volanis and whatnot), that's still infinite from what I can see.
Or give Assimilated a try. I'll wait...
Hmmmm... that gives me an idea.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Is it gonna be an idea that'll make me regret fitting a Chroniton torp launcher on my ship... ? :eek:
Whining works.
Give 'em a week.
The whiners won. This will only embolden them into ferreting out other missions on the foundry they want gone or other nerfs to the game.
However! One of the Foundry authors who follows me on Twitter sparked an interesting conversation about how this change will allow players to create a Borg mission where the Borg don't attack you until they feel they are threatened. I can think of a couple missions I've played where this could fit in quite nicely. :cool:
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
...whoa. This thread just got high-profile...
Also, think of what this could do for other kinds of pure-combat missions: I've been kicking around an idea of an 'arena' where you could just choose what mobs/ships you want to fight. Add in a concept of something like 'Starfleet / The Empire is conducting a test of its officers to see how well they can strategize in hostile situations' or even 'I love this hunting ground; they taught the bears how to use guns and everything!' and make it free access to any level? All I gotta do is figure out how to use the Foundry and publish it and a lot of people have their stress relief back. (Myself included.)
Interesting. I hadn't thought of this. This could add some functionality with triggers as well. A player could choose sides of a civil war, some of the friendlies might get involved during the first fight if splash damage makes them target the player on their side, but based on component complete mob deaths the second round could spawn friendlies that help in the fight against the side the player chooses.
And the gears begin turning
LOL!!! Not.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Be careful when you coddle a small subset of players, they do end up being monsters.
Need... editor...
It's back up
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Wow...yeah, you're right...that actually WOULD be more in line with the Borg MO as seen on the series. Drones in particular should be set this way, IMHO, for "realism."
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
My opinion is mixed. I think the new functionality is good in itself, because it provides for an interesting option. However, I would like to see the original timid creature behavior return again once it has been adjusted so it can't be abused. Sometimes you want civilians who will just run around scared and not fight back, or freighters that will try to flee and not fight back.
I think the name of the current implementation should be changed to something like "Non-aggressive creature", since they will fight back if they are attacked, but will not aggro you directly. I think that is a more accurate description of this behavior, since they may not be attacking for any number of reasons (ex: not sure whether you're an enemy, so taking a wait and see attitude and letting you make the first move).
What would make me happy is if the original behavior was re-implemented, after making it so that creatures set to "timid" do not drop loot. We'd then have both "Non-Aggressive" and "Timid".
In addition, if we could set "flight routes" for timid creatures, that would be cool because we could control where they run to (maybe trying to get to a safe area, or escape), but that would just be gravy.
Click here for my Foundry tutorial on Creating A Custom Interior Map.
Do you know for how many people in STO these whiners have screwed it up ??? More then you can imaging. 'Coz frankly, the loot during the gameplay (missions) and endgame is far from rewarding, bearing in mind that leveling in the reputation clickmyselfnuts is a 100000 EC average, which is not managable if you got only batteries, junk and lock boxes stuffed in the throat. Or do we have all to do that stupid mary-go-around Tour De Universe, which is so dull as the behind of a cow.
I think two options would work for everyone.
1. Does not shoot back, but drops no loot.
2. Passive until shot at, drops loot.
S.S. Doff Lundgren
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My other problem is as a player using a phrase like "against the spirit of the game" seems to be a little hypocritical because I feel the lockbox gambling to get a cool ship is no different. For a really low random chance to get something that people might spend hundreds of dollars on any better then the timid function? Its just the way my mind works, for I think a statement along the lines of "We never intended the Foundry to be used this way" would have been a better way to describe the change.
It was added to the patch notes this morning
I don't think that's possible as I'm fairly certain that the type of loot is determined by the rank of the enemy (Ensign, Captain, Battleship, etc.) themselves. Authors just pick how they want that enemy to behave.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Then make a rank 0 that wont fight back and drop loot?
S.S. Doff Lundgren
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Timid creatures run away from the player at top speed until they get to the edge of the map and vanish in a successful escape.
I would support that for the lulz alone.
That's what I figured. I kind of expected loot drops to be programmed worlds apart from Npc behavior.
It would be nice, as suggested, if we could get some kind of rank 0 npc group that could be set to passive, but I suspect that it's an all or nothing type of feature.
What I really need is an invisible object that can targeted and destroyed. How does Cryptic do it with doors that a player has to target and destroy? Those don't drop loot.
If we had something like that, it would add all kinds of cool functionality. We could use it in place of a timid npc. It wouldn't move, but we could fake it with the npc set to disappear following an explosion triggered after the death of the invis object.
Ooh, good thinking.
S.S. Doff Lundgren
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
And just sitting there with your ship on Auto attack is fun? You are grinding EC.... utilising an exploit to do so. These grinders are not fun, they didn't require you to do anything but make sure you have the target in your sights.
Don't blame the reputation system for this. Just doing the Tau Dewa Sector patrol daily provided enough EC for me to meet my daily EC reputation requirements for both Romulan and Omega reps. I am at Tier 5 in Romulan and Omega Rep. and have been for a month or so.
Just PLAY THE GAME, there is no need for anyone to resort to exploits for this game.
@atomictiki
The recent change hasn't really been a NERF in that abilities and powers have not reduced in effectiveness. It was a systems change by the people at cryptic who funnily enough want to keep their in-game economy balanced and under control.
No mission has been singled out, no user has been banned, no other repurcussions have been laid out except that a very specific way to abuse the system to gain loot and EC has become invalidated.
EDIT:
There are plenty of short missions that qualify for the IOR, search for them. If you want your dilithium and fleet marks there are plenty of missions that will take you 20-30 minutes. And seeing as the repeatable has a 30 min cooldown there is no point in not taking longer missions.
Yeah, the loot idea would take recoding a different part of the game than this fix, and is probably harder. This might be better in the long run as it gives us a new toy.
My character Tsin'xing
Nouveau riche LTS member
The way cryptic does it seems to use a rank 0 enemy of a special type that is immobile
My character Tsin'xing
If you guys want a short, but legit grinder, see my "Gladiator Rumble." It's not a mission I'm proud of, but it's a legit way to grind the IOR. You won't get 500k ECs worth of loot, and you actually have to earn the loot.