As a lifitime member who has been sinking cash into this game since, beta....yeah I kinda am entitled to be online.
So, lets be completely frank here. The amount of money you put into this game, do you figure it out to be... what, maybe the salary of a call center person?
Come on.
I pay for a magazine subscription, I don't expect the magazine to be compelling and absolutely as awesome every month out of the year. I pay for a cell phone service, I don't expect it to work 100% of the time.
Your sense of entitlement is flawed, as though you deserve something more than you've already gotten. You paid for a service, at the time you paid for it. You paid for keys, and you used those keys to obtain something. Whether you like it or not, you've received what you paid for. You are happy when its up, never to jump up and say how great it is that you can get online - but on the second that its down, or that YOUR service is impeded, you are quick to detract and show your fair weather face.
Oh how swift the wrath is when perfection is lost!
Come on. Its a video game, its not an emergency vehicle. Hell, they don't even advertise 100% uptime, and in all reality if you look at ANY document about any videogame, ESPECIALLY online ones, they very clearly state that the experience and content can change at any time, and that service is not guaranteed - all you buy is access until such access is lost.
What exactly are you demanding, that they continue keeping the service up absolutely without falter, and if it falters they owe you some arbitrary return for your frustrations? Please.
yep crashed just before mission completion, tried to log back in, said server could not log out my character, crashes again for the next 20 min. Then try to log back in get stuck on loading character selection screen, server times out, for half hour, Now i get back on server and have over 6800 people in que before me?
:mad: Its no wonder people get upset:mad:
Sure it is a free to play game, but even some of us free to player people spend good money, to get things in game so we have just as much right to complain as anyone else.
I don't see that as a viable solution, and actually I consider that a rather selfish one.
You can't play, so those that can get on shouldn't be able to play either? Gameplay isn't broken right now... map movement may be, but I was able to complete the event quest just fine on two characters now... and there are plenty others who are online doing the same.
And, what happens in three days when all the overwhelming shiny traffic has gone down... what does cryptic do then with all the money they put towards 72 hours of peak, and another 6 months of 30% of that?
Turning them off during the whole event would cause more suffering and far more outrage than queues. Doing that, especially after the full downtime that was experienced earlier in the week, would only serve to cause more outrage and even more desertion... and it serves even more to generate a nice rift between those who were playing and those who were waiting to, and then we have a warring player base on top of everything else.
I don't see any of that as a reasonable solution, or an acceptable outcome.
If I came across all "If I can't play, no one can!" then sorry, that wasn't what I was insinuating. However, this is an extremely popular, free-to-play game. So to find that this is their backup plan for heavy demand is extremely dissapointing. The queue is now fast surpassing ten thousand people and there's been no word from Devs or Brandon on the issue. Okay, so they buy new servers and then after the event ends, traffic goes back to normal. It's still prudent to invest in extra servers now because there's something coming in May that will no doubt have people clamouring at the gates to get online for. The fact of the matter is that this has happened in the past and they hadn't the foresight nor the hindsight to take steps to prevent it happening again.
And as far as I can tell, the fact that the lifers are already jumping to the front of this 10k queue is going to be more than enough to divide the player base. Neither what I said nor what Cryptic will do is a reasonable solution and neither will likely have an acceptabe outcome, because the truth is this should never have been a potential issue in the first place.
You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
I pay to play the game. I have payed, right now, people who do not pay are playing and i am not. It's actually pretty simple.
So... you play 24/7/365? You paid for a lifetime subscription, did you not? Do you expect to play it until you die?
The people that paid, that are playing, are they being GIVEN more than you are?
Hell, lets apply this to real life.
You pay for a ticket to a general admission only concert. Everyone paid the same amount. Some got there earlier and are in the front.
Are they getting more, or less, than what they paid for? And are you being screwed? Is it the venue's fault? Should they maid front row seating the only seating, so that everyone is perpetually equal?
If Cryptic has any sense, they'll take the servers offline until they can get some more to take the strain. I love how they've toted that there are 2 million individual accounts, but there's now a queue of 4000 people who can't play.
Oh come now, that isn't like Cryptic at all.
They'll keep using these rather low capacity servers until they die of continuous overloads.
Your analogy is flawed. I payed for a seat, others did not. I bought a lifetime sub, when the game was not F2P. I invested in this game before it was ever released. i would like to not be sitting in queu while f2p players are playing, then have the Queue lock up after waiting for 20 minutes. This is simple math, figure the pop, figure the server load. This is a 3 year old game, not launch.
The fact of the matter is that this has happened in the past and they hadn't the foresight nor the hindsight to take steps to prevent it happening again.
And as far as I can tell, the fact that the lifers are already jumping to the front of this 10k queue is going to be more than enough to divide the player base. Neither what I said nor what Cryptic will do is a reasonable solution and neither will likely have an acceptabe outcome, because the truth is this should never have been a potential issue in the first place.
If I came across all "If I can't play, no one can!" then sorry, that wasn't what I was insinuating. However, this is an extremely popular, free-to-play game. So to find that this is their backup plan for heavy demand is extremely dissapointing. The queue is now fast surpassing ten thousand people and there's been no word from Devs or Brandon on the issue. Okay, so they buy new servers and then after the event ends, traffic goes back to normal. It's still prudent to invest in extra servers now because there's something coming in May that will no doubt have people clamouring at the gates to get online for. The fact of the matter is that this has happened in the past and they hadn't the foresight nor the hindsight to take steps to prevent it happening again.
And as far as I can tell, the fact that the lifers are already jumping to the front of this 10k queue is going to be more than enough to divide the player base. Neither what I said nor what Cryptic will do is a reasonable solution and neither will likely have an acceptabe outcome, because the truth is this should never have been a potential issue in the first place.
Lifers do get priority, and pay-per-months behind that, and then free to players. That is nothing new, and never will be new. That is absolutely one of the values of being a paying customer, you are - to the absolute degree of POSSIBILITY - entitled to be ahead of those that do not. This is not a new concept, no matter where you go. You see it with airlines, with themeparks, you see it all over the place where the potential for influx and lines is reason enough to act as a catalyst to subscription rates.
There is no math capable of predicting human decisions that is capable of predicting the need for adding servers, especially when historically speaking this has never happened before. The reality is, we do not know what or why, only what is in front of us. Capacity is a hypothetical variable that is neither predictable nor capable of being sufficiently prepared for.
What you desire is expected and is not wrong - there is no reason you shouldn't want to play, and obviously you do. But there is no reasonable amount of work that cryptic could do to satisfy the satiating demand forever. This is, and forever will be, one of the major problems of the internet. Handling demand is nearly impossible as what is hitting a wall is rarely only one thing. While you may see a situation that potentially needs maybe 2 or 3 servers, could easily be 20 or 30. Is it the databases? Is it the map servers themselves? Is it the account server alone, or is it all three of these? Is it the router, is it the network? This could be disk i/o or bandwidth. It could very well be an issue where the ONLY solution is to funnel players until the demand dies down.
Hidden within the demands that you and others make is the clearer problem at hand: communication is lacking and no one is there to say this or that is the problem and just be patient.
However, if people would prefer to simply drill this down to the smallest or simplest of carnal desires to which everyone continues to say "they're playing and I'm not!" then it is simple to spin that around and feign the opposite... "look at all of those playing right now, we don't need to."
The demands of both sides are, without consequence, far deeper than those simple reactionary attempts at eliciting resolution to the party that screams the loudest... but mind to the actual realities of the problem are far from that.
Adding in enough servers to compensate for the event horizon of the current capacity struggle, could very well take just as long (though probably longer) than implementing a sit and wait policy that is already there.
Consider that, in earnest, a single server will probably take 4-5 hours to set up, and the easy estimation that even with 10 people doing 1 server each, that is 4-5 hours to set up - and then additionally placing them in the cluster, validating hardware responsiveness, and further implementing them into the system and allowing the cluster to expand into them, the process could -very- easily reach beyond 3 full days of work.
This isn't something where you take a bunch of heavy duty machines, plug them into the network, and instantly gain the ability to handle another million users.
The reasonable situations are simply the fact that we are in an unreasonable situation and no solution makes any one group happy, but mathematically it stands to reason that the smaller of the groups is the groups waiting to get on. And that... above all else.. is one of Spock's own famous quotes. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
So... you play 24/7/365? You paid for a lifetime subscription, did you not? Do you expect to play it until you die?
The people that paid, that are playing, are they being GIVEN more than you are?
Hell, lets apply this to real life.
You pay for a ticket to a general admission only concert. Everyone paid the same amount. Some got there earlier and are in the front.
Are they getting more, or less, than what they paid for? And are you being screwed? Is it the venue's fault? Should they maid front row seating the only seating, so that everyone is perpetually equal?
You showed up later. Get over it.
While I agree with your reasoning, unfortunately, your argument is lost on the heaps of entitled nerd rage here.
I learned a long time ago never to expect perfection....and if I don't like the service being rendered, it does no good to raise my blood pressure raging over it. I just move on.
EDIT: Surak is credited with the "needs of the many" quote". Spock just uses it a lot.
I think you need to disable those poppers. People are starting to purposely cause lag issues by standing in a room and inflating a ton of those freaking balloons.
Your analogy is flawed. I payed for a seat, others did not. I bought a lifetime sub, when the game was not F2P. I invested in this game before it was ever released. i would like to not be sitting in queu while f2p players are playing, then have the Queue lock up after waiting for 20 minutes. This is simple math, figure the pop, figure the server load. This is a 3 year old game, not launch.
You don't get the ability to kick players who are already online. You never paid for that. All you paid for, is the ability to access the game at a priority, whereby if free to players were in front of you in line, you would get a priority access - not the ability to just log in at any given point if the capacity isn't there.
You cannot blame the f2p players for this, and as reasonable as you may believe you are trying to be, your investment does not guarantee anything other than access - to believe otherwise simply means you didn't actually read what you paid for - and you may want to go read that agreement again before you start spitting off demands on entitlement. It is section 18, if you need help finding it.
It should also, while pain you, serve you benefit to know that, lifetime and standard subscriptions get no different rights - only liftetime is granted veteran rewards in a different matter. As far as service goes, you are held in no different regard. The only thing we get as paying customers, is priority login over the free to play people - what you may not realize is that those people in front of you pay too.
But hey, you know what, I'm online... you go on spitting things about entitlement. Since you know, this post was entirely about that, and not about diagnosing the lag we were all encountering in game.
While I agree with your reasoning, unfortunately, your argument is lost on the heaps of entitled nerd rage here.
I learned a long time ago never to expect perfection....and if I don't like the service being rendered, it does no good to raise my blood pressure raging over it. I just move on.
EDIT: Surak is credited with the "needs of the many" quote". Spock just uses it a lot.
I know, but more remember Spock than Surak. Was like wrath erased all the prior uses
last week or 2 i have been disconnected about 3 time each week. between my newer computer and 5 yearold laptop to day i was disconnect from sto like to 10 time and saw long lagging time as i tried to play star trek online today. trying to get the ambassador class for my federation science and tac officers.
i was at k-7 the last time i got disconnected. it is understanable to have some more lag then usaual because the ambassador is one of the most wanted ship for 3-5 years in sto. some of the servers have been around for 3 to 5 years since cryptic started making star trek online so they might need to fixed or replaced. yes there have been more server added to star trek online over the years. my 5 year old lap top can run sto and search the web but because it is 5 years old it is slow to surf the web and slower amd more laggy playing sto also it look very cartoonie to.
it takes time to update driver and it takes more thing to change to new hardwear. cryptic will work out the kinks to the large lag time after this patch.
cryptic i am woundering could it be benificial to have all the servers liked into a open series and have eveyone playing in real time? if star trek online could have one large open server i would hape that you cryptic/perfect world have a talk with consultans with in the gaming industy that operate servers in the one server market. the star trek online engine does have limitations like and other haming engine.
I would really like to play. Maybe someone could address the "Server Not Responding" messages and then we could play. This is completely unplayable.
Trying to move around to get the mission is a nightmare. Then, when you finally have it, after 20 mins of trying to move from the transporter room to the engineer or Q, you have another 20+ mins trying to get to the mission start point. And don't forget the 10+ times you get disconnected and have to log back in.
A Celebration is supposed to be fun. This is the 100% opposite of fun.
Ok apparently I can't start new threats even though i've been a member since before beta... ok w/e
Anyway...
The problem I have been having is two fold one the same intermittent login problems as I've read from many others. While I've been playing all afternoon I'm now sitting at a continual patching indicator again.
Once in the game everything is fine until I go to try and train skills or even jsut press K to pring up the skills screen the game crashes utterly.
been gettin server not responding every 5 mins every day now since the patch and my connection on my end is perfect
Do you mean the connection to your ISP is perfect, or have you run tracert and the other tool they recommend to test the stability of every router hop between you and the game server.
I think I've had only 1 disconnect over the last 2 weeks.
yeah im geting continual "mapservers" (server not responding) ive had up to 360+ on counter, if its working properl it shuold boot me after 30secs or so. acount server seems to be closing then openng port on me every few mins, sometimes more often seems to last 30-40 secons, sometimes if i log out early it wount be able to authenticate but within a few seconds i can reconect to acount server, other times it seems to open port befor it boots me, which leads to alot of ruber banding. wondering if theres not some kind of virus in acount server cause i havnt seen a mesage saying hardware is fried and there routing around it, but it seems alot similar to if they were
yeah im geting continual "mapservers" (server not responding) ive had up to 360+ on counter, if its working properl it shuold boot me after 30secs or so. acount server seems to be closing then openng port on me every few mins, sometimes more often seems to last 30-40 secons, sometimes if i log out early it wount be able to authenticate but within a few seconds i can reconect to acount server, other times it seems to open port befor it boots me, which leads to alot of ruber banding. wondering if theres not some kind of virus in acount server cause i havnt seen a mesage saying hardware is fried and there routing around it, but it seems alot similar to if they were
If there was a Virus on the STO servers, then everyone would be effected by it, and thats simply not the case...
But the symptoms you're describing seems to indicate that you're suffering from dropped packets somewhere between your ISP connection and the STO servers. And its not possible to tell who the responsible party is without further information, such as the Trace Route and Net Test results...
Comments
Bet we can hit the 2million captain waiting in the queue!
So, lets be completely frank here. The amount of money you put into this game, do you figure it out to be... what, maybe the salary of a call center person?
Come on.
I pay for a magazine subscription, I don't expect the magazine to be compelling and absolutely as awesome every month out of the year. I pay for a cell phone service, I don't expect it to work 100% of the time.
Your sense of entitlement is flawed, as though you deserve something more than you've already gotten. You paid for a service, at the time you paid for it. You paid for keys, and you used those keys to obtain something. Whether you like it or not, you've received what you paid for. You are happy when its up, never to jump up and say how great it is that you can get online - but on the second that its down, or that YOUR service is impeded, you are quick to detract and show your fair weather face.
Oh how swift the wrath is when perfection is lost!
Come on. Its a video game, its not an emergency vehicle. Hell, they don't even advertise 100% uptime, and in all reality if you look at ANY document about any videogame, ESPECIALLY online ones, they very clearly state that the experience and content can change at any time, and that service is not guaranteed - all you buy is access until such access is lost.
What exactly are you demanding, that they continue keeping the service up absolutely without falter, and if it falters they owe you some arbitrary return for your frustrations? Please.
I pay to play the game. I have payed, right now, people who do not pay are playing and i am not. It's actually pretty simple.
And after waiting for 20 minutes in the Q i just got kicked from the Q, so...
:mad: Its no wonder people get upset:mad:
Sure it is a free to play game, but even some of us free to player people spend good money, to get things in game so we have just as much right to complain as anyone else.
If I came across all "If I can't play, no one can!" then sorry, that wasn't what I was insinuating. However, this is an extremely popular, free-to-play game. So to find that this is their backup plan for heavy demand is extremely dissapointing. The queue is now fast surpassing ten thousand people and there's been no word from Devs or Brandon on the issue. Okay, so they buy new servers and then after the event ends, traffic goes back to normal. It's still prudent to invest in extra servers now because there's something coming in May that will no doubt have people clamouring at the gates to get online for. The fact of the matter is that this has happened in the past and they hadn't the foresight nor the hindsight to take steps to prevent it happening again.
And as far as I can tell, the fact that the lifers are already jumping to the front of this 10k queue is going to be more than enough to divide the player base. Neither what I said nor what Cryptic will do is a reasonable solution and neither will likely have an acceptabe outcome, because the truth is this should never have been a potential issue in the first place.
So... you play 24/7/365? You paid for a lifetime subscription, did you not? Do you expect to play it until you die?
The people that paid, that are playing, are they being GIVEN more than you are?
Hell, lets apply this to real life.
You pay for a ticket to a general admission only concert. Everyone paid the same amount. Some got there earlier and are in the front.
Are they getting more, or less, than what they paid for? And are you being screwed? Is it the venue's fault? Should they maid front row seating the only seating, so that everyone is perpetually equal?
You showed up later. Get over it.
Oh come now, that isn't like Cryptic at all.
They'll keep using these rather low capacity servers until they die of continuous overloads.
Your analogy is flawed. I payed for a seat, others did not. I bought a lifetime sub, when the game was not F2P. I invested in this game before it was ever released. i would like to not be sitting in queu while f2p players are playing, then have the Queue lock up after waiting for 20 minutes. This is simple math, figure the pop, figure the server load. This is a 3 year old game, not launch.
I wholeheartedly agree with this.
Lifers do get priority, and pay-per-months behind that, and then free to players. That is nothing new, and never will be new. That is absolutely one of the values of being a paying customer, you are - to the absolute degree of POSSIBILITY - entitled to be ahead of those that do not. This is not a new concept, no matter where you go. You see it with airlines, with themeparks, you see it all over the place where the potential for influx and lines is reason enough to act as a catalyst to subscription rates.
There is no math capable of predicting human decisions that is capable of predicting the need for adding servers, especially when historically speaking this has never happened before. The reality is, we do not know what or why, only what is in front of us. Capacity is a hypothetical variable that is neither predictable nor capable of being sufficiently prepared for.
What you desire is expected and is not wrong - there is no reason you shouldn't want to play, and obviously you do. But there is no reasonable amount of work that cryptic could do to satisfy the satiating demand forever. This is, and forever will be, one of the major problems of the internet. Handling demand is nearly impossible as what is hitting a wall is rarely only one thing. While you may see a situation that potentially needs maybe 2 or 3 servers, could easily be 20 or 30. Is it the databases? Is it the map servers themselves? Is it the account server alone, or is it all three of these? Is it the router, is it the network? This could be disk i/o or bandwidth. It could very well be an issue where the ONLY solution is to funnel players until the demand dies down.
Hidden within the demands that you and others make is the clearer problem at hand: communication is lacking and no one is there to say this or that is the problem and just be patient.
However, if people would prefer to simply drill this down to the smallest or simplest of carnal desires to which everyone continues to say "they're playing and I'm not!" then it is simple to spin that around and feign the opposite... "look at all of those playing right now, we don't need to."
The demands of both sides are, without consequence, far deeper than those simple reactionary attempts at eliciting resolution to the party that screams the loudest... but mind to the actual realities of the problem are far from that.
Adding in enough servers to compensate for the event horizon of the current capacity struggle, could very well take just as long (though probably longer) than implementing a sit and wait policy that is already there.
Consider that, in earnest, a single server will probably take 4-5 hours to set up, and the easy estimation that even with 10 people doing 1 server each, that is 4-5 hours to set up - and then additionally placing them in the cluster, validating hardware responsiveness, and further implementing them into the system and allowing the cluster to expand into them, the process could -very- easily reach beyond 3 full days of work.
This isn't something where you take a bunch of heavy duty machines, plug them into the network, and instantly gain the ability to handle another million users.
The reasonable situations are simply the fact that we are in an unreasonable situation and no solution makes any one group happy, but mathematically it stands to reason that the smaller of the groups is the groups waiting to get on. And that... above all else.. is one of Spock's own famous quotes. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
While I agree with your reasoning, unfortunately, your argument is lost on the heaps of entitled nerd rage here.
I learned a long time ago never to expect perfection....and if I don't like the service being rendered, it does no good to raise my blood pressure raging over it. I just move on.
EDIT: Surak is credited with the "needs of the many" quote". Spock just uses it a lot.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Sounds like a lot of MMO companies these days, but this is the worst I've experienced in a while.
You don't get the ability to kick players who are already online. You never paid for that. All you paid for, is the ability to access the game at a priority, whereby if free to players were in front of you in line, you would get a priority access - not the ability to just log in at any given point if the capacity isn't there.
You cannot blame the f2p players for this, and as reasonable as you may believe you are trying to be, your investment does not guarantee anything other than access - to believe otherwise simply means you didn't actually read what you paid for - and you may want to go read that agreement again before you start spitting off demands on entitlement. It is section 18, if you need help finding it.
It should also, while pain you, serve you benefit to know that, lifetime and standard subscriptions get no different rights - only liftetime is granted veteran rewards in a different matter. As far as service goes, you are held in no different regard. The only thing we get as paying customers, is priority login over the free to play people - what you may not realize is that those people in front of you pay too.
But hey, you know what, I'm online... you go on spitting things about entitlement. Since you know, this post was entirely about that, and not about diagnosing the lag we were all encountering in game.
I know, but more remember Spock than Surak. Was like wrath erased all the prior uses
i was at k-7 the last time i got disconnected. it is understanable to have some more lag then usaual because the ambassador is one of the most wanted ship for 3-5 years in sto. some of the servers have been around for 3 to 5 years since cryptic started making star trek online so they might need to fixed or replaced. yes there have been more server added to star trek online over the years. my 5 year old lap top can run sto and search the web but because it is 5 years old it is slow to surf the web and slower amd more laggy playing sto also it look very cartoonie to.
cryptic i am woundering could it be benificial to have all the servers liked into a open series and have eveyone playing in real time? if star trek online could have one large open server i would hape that you cryptic/perfect world have a talk with consultans with in the gaming industy that operate servers in the one server market. the star trek online engine does have limitations like and other haming engine.
Trying to move around to get the mission is a nightmare. Then, when you finally have it, after 20 mins of trying to move from the transporter room to the engineer or Q, you have another 20+ mins trying to get to the mission start point. And don't forget the 10+ times you get disconnected and have to log back in.
A Celebration is supposed to be fun. This is the 100% opposite of fun.
Anyway...
The problem I have been having is two fold one the same intermittent login problems as I've read from many others. While I've been playing all afternoon I'm now sitting at a continual patching indicator again.
Once in the game everything is fine until I go to try and train skills or even jsut press K to pring up the skills screen the game crashes utterly.
"It may be the warriors who get the glory but it's the engineers who build societies." - Lieutenant B'Elanna Torres, USS Voyager
I think I've had only 1 disconnect over the last 2 weeks.
But the symptoms you're describing seems to indicate that you're suffering from dropped packets somewhere between your ISP connection and the STO servers. And its not possible to tell who the responsible party is without further information, such as the Trace Route and Net Test results...