'Timid creatures now fight back when attacked.'

starmanj · January 2013

Why are we getting a lot lees in Foundry loot now this was not mentioned in the resent Release notes. It is like 1 and 1/4 Foundry missions now in getting loot, this is after Cool down.

admgreer · January 2013

I noticed the same thing. Its dropping about 1/2 what it use too. Must be all the complaining the Foundry authors were doing to the Devs about how they made missions that took 80 hours to complete and a simple grinder that has no content is the Top run mission. So to make them happy they prob nerfed the dropps. I was making 600k EC in drops a day from 1 run, now its down to 300k in drops.

zahinder · January 2013

Maybe they took out the 'ship that does nothing dropping loot' thing?

drkfrontiers · January 2013

Isn't it obvious?

A few bad apples have ruined it for the rest of us, with the Grinders.

Some of them are so blatantly designed to be BOTS, I personally hope these folks find themselves on the receiving end of a ban.

hippiejon · January 2013

You also realize that the loot that drops is random right?
Sometimes it might be lots of engines, deflectors and shields which have high resell value, and other times it might be a crapload of TCD Infusers and Power Insulator consoles.
That's why your amounts change.

You still made 300K ec for doing nothing.
Quit complaining.

admgreer · January 2013

They changed the Drop rate. Its obvious to any that do the Grinder missions, wether its Easy money or The Farmer Quark. I knew excatly when the drop limit would hit and exactly the range of loot income i would recieve. Its an obvious change an others notice it to. So its not something random and not our imagination

hippiejon · January 2013

I repeat my sentiment

You made 100s of thousands of ec for doing nothing.

admgreer · January 2013

And? Jealous? Were just pointing out a change they made since last patch and did not inform the community about. I dont care what they do, I just want quick easy foundry missions to farm fleet marks with and get my Embassy to tier 2. The EC is a bonus.

hippiejon · January 2013

admgreer wrote: »

And? Jealous?

Nope

admgreer wrote: »

...I just want quick easy foundry missions to farm fleet marks with and get my Embassy to tier 2. The EC is a bonus.

Come dance with DJ Gir Aiynd and help her party qualify then.
Another crazy farmer mission for you chaps.

And it's full of the Loots !
I made hundreds of thousands today !

admgreer · January 2013

Oh I see. I just noticed your name. Same person that has this weeks spotlight mission. No wonder. Well as long as Investigate officer reports has a 30 min cool down and pays 50 marks. Grinders will still be the most ran Foundry missions.

kirksplat · January 2013

I just got a ridiculous amount of ECs for doing no work at all. You call it a Foundry loot nerf, that maybe they want you to work for a master key instead of play 1 mission on Elite where nobody fights back. I don't notice a change, but I usually prefer to earn my loot.

I'm sorry if that seems unfair to you that you got 200k instead of 600k for pretty much doing nothing.

You can earn half a million ECs on normal. Check out HippieJohn's new mission. Don't worry, you don't have to actually fight anything or earn the loot.

twg042370 · January 2013

A lot of this would end if they had someone on staff looking at these things and a TOS that said, "No space pinata missions."

kirksplat · January 2013

twg042370 wrote: »

A lot of this would end if they had someone on staff looking at these things and a TOS that said, "No space pinata missions."

They couldn't keep up with them. They take 10 mins to make.

ericsonxx · January 2013

The one I do is still dropping several hundred K for the run I do, again, it does depend, if you get a lot of shield/engine/deflector drops you're getting 25-30k per one of them, if you get a lot of weapons and batteries, well, much less money. I clear probably 1.5 mill a day across my 3 fed alts, so I cant complain.

grindisbaddesign · January 2013

drkfrontiers wrote: »

A few bad apples have ruined it for the rest of us, with the Grinders.

Well, the Foundry Clique does tend to ruin things for the rest of the playerbase...

admgreer · January 2013

The entire point of my and the OP's remarks is that they made a change and did not inform the community. Like I said the EC is a bonus. I'll still play the Grinders 6 times a day or more. And yes they are a tight little bunch are they not.

zahinder · January 2013

grindisbaddesign wrote: »

Well, the Foundry Clique does tend to ruin things for the rest of the playerbase...

Do you honestly suggest that do-nothing loot missions is intended?

lewstelamon01 · January 2013

I dunno, I just did farmer missions today and I got about 350-500k worth of stuff, including a Mk X very rare ambiplasma console. Yesterday I got a Mk XI very rare phaser relay.

A lot of the loot is white or green quality.

However, I see nothing that hints at any sort of nerf. Perhaps you got unlucky?

starmanj · January 2013

Oh it has been Nerfed LOL this save me from buying extra Inventory slots I must say;)

starmanj · January 2013

Humm Seems to be better after Monday Patch it is now 2 Foundrys full of loot. I do have to ask why does XP stop at the same time the loot stops. Is XP Capped too?

atomictiki · January 2013

Congrats select Foundry authors for nerfing the grinders. That's 2 for 2. What will you guys want nerfed next?

crypticarmsman · January 2013

admgreer wrote: »

I noticed the same thing. Its dropping about 1/2 what it use too. Must be all the complaining the Foundry authors were doing to the Devs about how they made missions that took 80 hours to complete and a simple grinder that has no content is the Top run mission. So to make them happy they prob nerfed the dropps. I was making 600k EC in drops a day from 1 run, now its down to 300k in drops.

Yep - blame it on the Foundry Authors as Cryptic NEVER does any data-mining of their own. They never know how many players are logged in concurrently, how many items are sold from their C-Store; the rate at which players earn Dilithium and other in game rewards...

Yep, Cryptic absolutely clueless about what goes on, on their game servers until someone complains...oh, wait.

If anything, Cryptic probably did some data-mining, saw a trend they didn't care fore and made adjustments. Maybe those who farm 'Ginder' missions non-stop should look in the mirror before assigning any blame as to why loot drop rates may have been changed, eh?

atomictiki · January 2013

And the massive poutrage, spamming devs via twitter and email, mass reporting foundry missions they don't like, the mysterious deletion of comments and closing of topics where those same authors work out how to "legally destroy" or "remove" missions they don't like had no effect at all. Really?

bloctoad · January 2013

Unless some file editing was done there was likely no exploitation ever involved, only legitimate game mechanics. The change to the Officer Reports disqualified the click this console three times on ESD type missions. Even if the mission required no combat or combat against enemies that do not reciprocate, one still must utilize the mouse and/or keyboard to generate the mission contact and complete a mission requiring a specified minimum length of time. Thus the literal physics definition of work is satisfied regardless of the end amount of work involved related to other foundry missions. Which is what this essentially boils down to: People are simply unhappy their foundry mission isn't getting as many playthroughs.

zorbane · January 2013

bloctoad wrote: »

Unless some file editing was done there was likely no exploitation ever involved, only legitimate game mechanics. The change to the Officer Reports disqualified the click this console three times on ESD type missions. Even if the mission required no combat or combat against enemies that do not reciprocate, one still must utilize the mouse and/or keyboard to generate the mission contact and complete a mission requiring a specified minimum length of time. Thus the literal physics definition of work is satisfied regardless of the end amount of work involved related to other foundry missions. Which is what this essentially boils down to: People are simply unhappy their foundry mission isn't getting as many playthroughs.

...

So you make fun of authors complaining about the system and then turn aroudn and say "hey I had to lift my finger to press a button on my keyboard, therefore it's not an exploit".

bloctoad · January 2013

zorbane wrote: »

...

So you make fun of authors complaining about the system and then turn aroudn and say "hey I had to lift my finger to press a button on my keyboard, therefore it's not an exploit".

I do not think it means what you think it means. Standing inside of a pillar so the boss cannot attack you is an exploit. Changing the hull and shields of ships to 1 point so they can all be one shot is an exploit. Increasing the concussive force radius of warp core breach is an exploit. Modifying basic weapons so they can be fired from more than 10 km, well outside normal firing range of all vessels is an exploit. Circumventing the starting timer to begin at objectives for Azure Nebula Rescue or Colony Invasion is an exploit.

Utilizing standard warp core breach after DPSing shields and hull to zero to further damage other enemy ships in an armada of mysteriously abandoned vessels is not an exploit. Racing through a quick Boarding Party mission to access the appropriate consoles is not an exploit. Even clicking on the panel outside the transporter room on ESD three times before the change was still not an exploit. It is acceptable use of standard game mechanics.

atomictiki · January 2013

bloctoad wrote: »

I do not think it means what you think it means.

'Round these parts "exploit" means "missions I don't like." Who are you with your well defined terms, sir?

broadnax · January 2013

bloctoad wrote: »

I do not think it means what you think it means. Standing inside of a pillar so the boss cannot attack you is an exploit. Changing the hull and shields of ships to 1 point so they can all be one shot is an exploit. Increasing the concussive force radius of warp core breach is an exploit. Modifying basic weapons so they can be fired from more than 10 km, well outside normal firing range of all vessels is an exploit. Circumventing the starting timer to begin at objectives for Azure Nebula Rescue or Colony Invasion is an exploit.

Utilizing standard warp core breach after DPSing shields and hull to zero to further damage other enemy ships in an armada of mysteriously abandoned vessels is not an exploit. Racing through a quick Boarding Party mission to access the appropriate consoles is not an exploit. Even clicking on the panel outside the transporter room on ESD three times before the change was still not an exploit. It is acceptable use of standard game mechanics.

Just because a game mechanic allows something to happen does not mean it was designed for that purpose. I would never dilude myself into thinking that the devs intended for us to single-click our way to rich rewards, or fight unarmed, defenseless vessels for super-fast loot, thus racing through content intended to make us spend more time in game (i.e., dilithium/fleet mark sinks).

Using game mechanics in ways not intended by the developer is indeed an exploit. I've seen this same argument in too many games -- and the same responses from the developers in said games -- to see it any differently.

That said, it is up to the devs to respond and define things accordingly after a potential exploit is reported. If they don't address it, then they don't consider it an exploit.

If the Foundry authors are indeed as insignificant a group as you seem to think they are, the devs would not be swayed by them. They'd stick by what was making *them* the most profit. Apparently, turkey-shoot grinders do not meet that criteria.

castsbugc · January 2013

broadnax wrote: »

*snip*.

What he said basically. Look while it is true, it sucks alot when the top rated missions are not story driven ones at all but just battlefests. Granted, I would say if there wasnt a segment of the population that liked that sort of thing, they wouldnt be there in the first place, so I can live with that aspect. the problem comes in though, when you have a mechanic being used to 'game' the system and basically create a massive Zimbabwe style economic system where a currency that already has poor buying power gets worse, and worse still, floods the market with goods. THIS is most likely the aspect of the whole thing that cryptic listened to the most.

bloctoad · January 2013

broadnax wrote: »

Just because a game mechanic allows something to happen does not mean it was designed for that purpose. I would never dilude myself into thinking that the devs intended for us to single-click our way to rich rewards, or fight unarmed, defenseless vessels for super-fast loot, thus racing through content intended to make us spend more time in game (i.e., dilithium/fleet mark sinks).

Using game mechanics in ways not intended by the developer is indeed an exploit. I've seen this same argument in too many games -- and the same responses from the developers in said games -- to see it any differently.

That said, it is up to the devs to respond and define things accordingly after a potential exploit is reported. If they don't address it, then they don't consider it an exploit.

If the Foundry authors are indeed as insignificant a group as you seem to think they are, the devs would not be swayed by them. They'd stick by what was making *them* the most profit. Apparently, turkey-shoot grinders do not meet that criteria.

You still misunderstand the definition of exploit. Every mission met the criteria for which Cryptic set forth. Missions were designed by players using Cryptic's own mission design parameters. Missions must be completed in order to receive credit for Officer Reports. Missions were completed and nowhere in those missions were exploits used. See my previous post to review examples of actual exploits. As a result of much community angst, Cryptic changed the criteria then changed a specific aspect of their own mechanic much as Blizzard would retune an easier encounter to be more difficult.

Whether or not you like those missions or the overall difficulty of those missions has no bearing on their validity. There is an effective cap on useful dilithium per day so the dilithium argument fails. There is an effective benchmark for minimum foundry mission time and also a benchmark for minimum completion time for fleet projects so the fleet mark argument fails. Any market flooded with goods will see a decrease in price as supply outbalances demand so the energy credit argument also fails.

I do challenge you, however, to quote where I state foundry authors could be considered an insignificant group. I do not believe you will be successful in locating such a sentiment. On the contrary, Cryptic would be mightily swayed by the opinion of specific foundry authors as you are creating supplimental content to ease their development burden and are doing so for zero remuneration.

broadnax · January 2013

bloctoad wrote: »

You still misunderstand the definition of exploit. Every mission met the criteria for which Cryptic set forth. Missions were designed by players using Cryptic's own mission design parameters. Missions must be completed in order to receive credit for Officer Reports. Missions were completed and nowhere in those missions were exploits used. See my previous post to review examples of actual exploits. As a result of much community angst, Cryptic changed the criteria then changed a specific aspect of their own mechanic much as Blizzard would retune an easier encounter to be more difficult.

Whether or not you like those missions or the overall difficulty of those missions has no bearing on their validity. There is an effective cap on useful dilithium per day so the dilithium argument fails. There is an effective benchmark for minimum foundry mission time and also a benchmark for minimum completion time for fleet projects so the fleet mark argument fails. Any market flooded with goods will see a decrease in price as supply outbalances demand so the energy credit argument also fails.

I do challenge you, however, to quote where I state foundry authors could be considered an insignificant group. I do not believe you will be successful in locating such a sentiment. On the contrary, Cryptic would be mightily swayed by the opinion of specific foundry authors as you are creating supplimental content to ease their development burden and are doing so for zero remuneration.

I will concede the point on time limitations for the wrapper reward. However, the ability to rack up that many kills, loot, and ECs for little or no effort in that amount of time I think easily falls into the exploit arena from a developer perspective. It's the type of things developers battle all the time in MMOs.

With regard to the Foundry authors being an insignificant group, that was not aimed at you personally (my apologies), but it has been heavily inferred by a number of other posters on these forums as to why grinders are at the top of the list.

People who play grinders will usually 5-star the mission if they get good loot. Some story players often tend to reserve 5-star ratings for truly exceptional writing (not always, of course), and 4- or 3-star those that don't hit that for them (purely subjective). Having a 5-star story arc, no matter how well done it may be, will not be common.

'Timid creatures now fight back when attacked.'

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