Pretty arrogant thing to say when the Defiant is a standard Starfleet Design. It was basically inspired off the Miranda as a modified Saucer with Warp Nacelles hinged on the sides, than off pylons.
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I would not call it arrogant at all, The Defiant is/was a none standard Starfleet design, The vast majority if not all Starfleet ships use pylons to attach the nacelles. The Defiant is nothing like the Miranda at all, it was a completely new design, that's what we need... New designs. The nacelles of the Defiant are integrated into the ship's main structure without pylons nor are they hinged on.
I can't wait to see the better designs from the naysayers.
People don't need to be designers themselves to criticize something. Far from it; if you're a designer, the vast majority of people you're trying to appeal to are non-designers.
You don't need to direct a movie, or author a book, or paint a picture to have an opinion on a movie, book, or painting.
People don't need to be designers themselves to criticize something. Far from it; if you're a designer, the vast majority of people you're trying to appeal to are non-designers.
You don't need to direct a movie, or author a book, or paint a picture to have an opinion on a movie, book, or painting.
Oh nonono...you must have constructed an MMO that is at least as complex as this one all by yourself before you are allowed to have an opinion about it.
I would not call it arrogant at all, The Defiant is/was a none standard Starfleet design, The vast majority if not all Starfleet ships use pylons to attach the nacelles. The Defiant is nothing like the Miranda at all, it was a completely new design, that's what we need... New designs. The nacelles of the Defiant are integrated into the ship's main structure without pylons nor are they hinged on.
Insulting people by saying they are narrow minded was.
Leave the Ringed Warp Nacelles to the Vulcans or other alien races, not Starfleet.
I would not call it arrogant at all, The Defiant is/was a none standard Starfleet design, The vast majority if not all Starfleet ships use pylons to attach the nacelles. The Defiant is nothing like the Miranda at all, it was a completely new design, that's what we need... New designs. The nacelles of the Defiant are integrated into the ship's main structure without pylons nor are they hinged on.
The Defiant's warp engines are covered with armored cowlings that aren't even connected smoothly into the rest of the hull. Stripped of those, it would look more like an oddly-proportioned Saber, which is much more clearly part of the same design family as the Miranda.
I think what stands out most to me is the clashing aesthetic. Parts of the ship are smooth and rounded, other parts are straight lines and polygonal. Compare the deflector housing to the saucer section; there's no uniformity there.
If you want straight lines and flat panels, then you need to go for that. If you want curves and elegance, then you need to go for that. Doing both just doesn't work very well the majority of the time.
Well, it's a lot better than that horrid thing in the OP. Kinda looks like what early Cryptic would have made if they did an alternate skin for this.
Give it some streamlining passes, squish the neck until the torpedo launcher housing meets the upper lip of the deflector, and maybe tone the greebles down a smidge, and it could be pretty sexy.
Let's not get into too passionate of a discussion of this ship. Beauty is, after all, in the eye of the beholder.
I know people who think the Sovereign is "ugly as sin." Others see no issue with the current Odyssey, while others think the Ambassador is an afront against mankind.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
I believe that Adman Ihle, the artist behind the Odyssey's winning design, did later render a variant using a warp-ring. It was better integrated into the design than the one in the OP.
(/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
The Defiant's warp engines are covered with armored cowlings that aren't even connected smoothly into the rest of the hull. Stripped of those, it would look more like an oddly-proportioned Saber, which is much more clearly part of the same design family as the Miranda.
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Maybe in you're opinion, in mine it is nothing to do with the Miranda, I could make up some stuff to says its not apart of the Miranda design family but I wont I will agree to disagree.
Insulting people by saying they are narrow minded was.
Leave the Ringed Warp Nacelles to the Vulcans or other alien races, not Starfleet.
Fair point, I forgot about the people that are easily offended.
What I should have said is something like, It amazes me that the followers/fans of a franchise that is supposed to progress, to show us new things....... a franchise that is supposed to "move forward" would rather it stay in the past, never change, never move forward.
If that design of the Oddy featured on one of the shows.... far far in the background of a space battle..... and someone got a picture of it... zoomed it in and it was pixelated and blurred... people would want it in the game, but because its not we have people who don't want it because it has a curved/arched nacelle........ My opinion is it would make a good alternative skin to the Oddy.
If that design of the Oddy featured on one of the shows.... far far in the background of a space battle..... and someone got a picture of it... zoomed it in and it was pixelated and blurred... people would want it in the game
This is actually a very fair point, considering how often I've seen people ask for Freedom or Niagara-class ships added to the game.
At least I've seen people mostly opposed to the Yeager being added.
This is actually a very fair point, considering how often I've seen people ask for Freedom or Niagara-class ships added to the game.
At least I've seen people mostly opposed to the Yeager being added.
Images were blocked. So I fixed the links. They now lead to the info pages.
I'd be the opposite of that. I like the Yeager but I would go against the Niagara or the Freedom to be added as playable ships. Maybe as NPC ships though. One of the Defiant prototypes would be pretty nice to see as well.
But this Mod-Odyssey uses Ringed Warp Nacelles that are not standared with any Starfleet Vessel from the beginning all the way to the 26th Century.
note that we use Transwarp and Slipstream drives regularly by now, but still have the Nacelles that represent outdated oldschool Warp Drives as if nothing ever changed.
IMHO with those new drives a visual representation that goes along with it would be nice.
Transwarp has these gates, that STO uses the gates horribly inconsistently is sad but true.
(very disappointed in the lack of technobabble in STO, i don't just want a "load this map"-button, i want to know how the friggen tech behind it is supposed to work!)
I am not saying that the Vulcan Warp ring approach is the perfect solution... but it certainly looks different enough, and who is to say that a circular drive like that wouldn't increase Slipstream tunnel building effectiveness ;P
And btw. the Odyssey as in STO shoots is rear beams from the end top tip of it's nacelles... and that is just horrible. HORRIBLE!
I believe that Adman Ihle, the artist behind the Odyssey's winning design, did later render a variant using a warp-ring. It was better integrated into the design than the one in the OP.
Aye, and it was integrated into the neck for saucer separation. Ah, what could have been...
Fair point, I forgot about the people that are easily offended.
What I should have said is something like, It amazes me that the followers/fans of a franchise that is supposed to progress, to show us new things....... a franchise that is supposed to "move forward" would rather it stay in the past, never change, never move forward.
Gene Roddenberry had one simple thing when it came to starships with his series, "Starfleet Vessels had to be immediately identifiable".
You get a bunch of Star Trek fans, show them that picture and the first thing in their minds is "Vulcan Ship" because of that Warp Ring. But you show them a baddly drawn ship with a saucer and some warp nacelles, and the first thing you think of is "Federation Starship".
A good example of this was in Futurama when they had that race between George Takai and Scott Bakula in very crudely drawn ships, and people immediately knew they were ships from Star Trek.
As for progression, nobody is against progression. Just don't mess with the basics and start throwing kitchen sinks in the design because "it looks cool".
If that design of the Oddy featured on one of the shows.... far far in the background of a space battle..... and someone got a picture of it... zoomed it in and it was pixelated and blurred... people would want it in the game, but because its not we have people who don't want it because it has a curved/arched nacelle........ My opinion is it would make a good alternative skin to the Oddy.
But it's not.
As I said, I personally would like Cryptic to focus their assets in getting the remaining canonical ships and other art assets in STO than wasting thousands of dollars in trying to buy design copyrights from that guy.
note that we use Transwarp and Slipstream drives regularly by now, but still have the Nacelles that represent outdated oldschool Warp Drives as if nothing ever changed.
IMHO with those new drives a visual representation that goes along with it would be nice.
Transwarp has these gates, that STO uses the gates horribly inconsistently is sad but true.
(very disappointed in the lack of technobabble in STO, i don't just want a "load this map"-button, i want to know how the friggen tech behind it is supposed to work!)
I am not saying that the Vulcan Warp ring approach is the perfect solution... but it certainly looks different enough, and who is to say that a circular drive like that wouldn't increase Slipstream tunnel building effectiveness ;P
And btw. the Odyssey as in STO shoots is rear beams from the end top tip of it's nacelles... and that is just horrible. HORRIBLE!
When Rademaker was making the Vesta, he specifically said his nacelles were meant to integrate the slipstream system. And he went back and forth with Eaves, Drexler, Okuda, Probert, etc. Then there is the ship that gave us slipstream, the Dauntless, that too had nacelles.
And with Transwarp, do I need not remind you of the Borg. Giant Cubes in space? I really don't think design has anything to do with that sysytem. :rolleyes:
So with all due respect, it's presumptuous to say a fan-designed ship trumps what was already established with cannonical designs.
It's certainly not Jupiter-bad, but I don't think it's better than our current Oddy. Though, I get the impression I'm the only person other than the creator that likes the Oddy design.
It's certainly not Jupiter-bad, but I don't think it's better than our current Oddy. Though, I get the impression I'm the only person other than the creator that likes the Oddy design.
I like the current Odyssey. It's smooth, elegant, streamlined, and fits right in with other Federation designs without looking like a lot of the aggressive, angular T5 starships we had at launch.
People who don't like it probably want something that looks more lean, like the Sovereign. The Odyssey is a bulky design that is not very intimidating, but it's not supposed to be a warship so that works for it, in my eyes.
I like the current Odyssey. It's smooth, elegant, streamlined, and fits right in with other Federation designs without looking like a lot of the aggressive, angular T5 starships we had at launch.
People who don't like it probably want something that looks more lean, like the Sovereign. The Odyssey is a bulky design that is not very intimidating, but it's not supposed to be a warship so that works for it, in my eyes.
Nah, I love big, bulky ships. One of my favorite STO designs is slapping all the biggest Star Cruiser parts - including the Nomad saucer - together.
The geometry of the dual necks and their interfaces with the other components make my eyes hurt.
It makes me really sad that the Odyssey fills the C-store role of the Star Cruiser, making the appearance of another one, compatible with the existing parts and lacking horrible eldritch geometry, unlikely.
Comments
I would not call it arrogant at all, The Defiant is/was a none standard Starfleet design, The vast majority if not all Starfleet ships use pylons to attach the nacelles. The Defiant is nothing like the Miranda at all, it was a completely new design, that's what we need... New designs. The nacelles of the Defiant are integrated into the ship's main structure without pylons nor are they hinged on.
If i weren't so busy doing other things I'd take up your challenge.
*Cracks Knuckles*
You mean something like this?
A old lil Work In Progress of mine
Front
Back
Top
Side
:P
Production Assistant & Art Director
People don't need to be designers themselves to criticize something. Far from it; if you're a designer, the vast majority of people you're trying to appeal to are non-designers.
You don't need to direct a movie, or author a book, or paint a picture to have an opinion on a movie, book, or painting.
Oh nonono...you must have constructed an MMO that is at least as complex as this one all by yourself before you are allowed to have an opinion about it.
This is kinda ugly, sorry to say.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Insulting people by saying they are narrow minded was.
Leave the Ringed Warp Nacelles to the Vulcans or other alien races, not Starfleet.
The ship looked good, until I saw that side view. :P
She needs streamlined more.
The Defiant's warp engines are covered with armored cowlings that aren't even connected smoothly into the rest of the hull. Stripped of those, it would look more like an oddly-proportioned Saber, which is much more clearly part of the same design family as the Miranda.
The neck profile and where the nacelles sit in relation to the hull could use some work, but I rather like the saucer.
I think what stands out most to me is the clashing aesthetic. Parts of the ship are smooth and rounded, other parts are straight lines and polygonal. Compare the deflector housing to the saucer section; there's no uniformity there.
If you want straight lines and flat panels, then you need to go for that. If you want curves and elegance, then you need to go for that. Doing both just doesn't work very well the majority of the time.
Thanks for the comments on it though, I do agree with most if not all of them
Production Assistant & Art Director
Well, it's a lot better than that horrid thing in the OP. Kinda looks like what early Cryptic would have made if they did an alternate skin for this.
Give it some streamlining passes, squish the neck until the torpedo launcher housing meets the upper lip of the deflector, and maybe tone the greebles down a smidge, and it could be pretty sexy.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
I know people who think the Sovereign is "ugly as sin." Others see no issue with the current Odyssey, while others think the Ambassador is an afront against mankind.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
I believe that Adman Ihle, the artist behind the Odyssey's winning design, did later render a variant using a warp-ring. It was better integrated into the design than the one in the OP.
Maybe in you're opinion, in mine it is nothing to do with the Miranda, I could make up some stuff to says its not apart of the Miranda design family but I wont
Fair point, I forgot about the people that are easily offended.
What I should have said is something like, It amazes me that the followers/fans of a franchise that is supposed to progress, to show us new things....... a franchise that is supposed to "move forward" would rather it stay in the past, never change, never move forward.
If that design of the Oddy featured on one of the shows.... far far in the background of a space battle..... and someone got a picture of it... zoomed it in and it was pixelated and blurred... people would want it in the game, but because its not we have people who don't want it because it has a curved/arched nacelle........ My opinion is it would make a good alternative skin to the Oddy.
Agreed. Sure anyone can have an opinion but I should would like to see what makes for a decent looking design in their eyes.
Btw, does anyone have links to the other Enterprise F potential contest entries. Those would be cool to look at too.
This is actually a very fair point, considering how often I've seen people ask for Freedom or Niagara-class ships added to the game.
At least I've seen people mostly opposed to the Yeager being added.
Images were blocked. So I fixed the links. They now lead to the info pages.
I'd be the opposite of that. I like the Yeager but I would go against the Niagara or the Freedom to be added as playable ships. Maybe as NPC ships though. One of the Defiant prototypes would be pretty nice to see as well.
note that we use Transwarp and Slipstream drives regularly by now, but still have the Nacelles that represent outdated oldschool Warp Drives as if nothing ever changed.
IMHO with those new drives a visual representation that goes along with it would be nice.
Transwarp has these gates, that STO uses the gates horribly inconsistently is sad but true.
(very disappointed in the lack of technobabble in STO, i don't just want a "load this map"-button, i want to know how the friggen tech behind it is supposed to work!)
I am not saying that the Vulcan Warp ring approach is the perfect solution... but it certainly looks different enough, and who is to say that a circular drive like that wouldn't increase Slipstream tunnel building effectiveness ;P
And btw. the Odyssey as in STO shoots is rear beams from the end top tip of it's nacelles... and that is just horrible. HORRIBLE!
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
If you are going to design something or promote something to be sold, don't insult the buyers.
Aye, and it was integrated into the neck for saucer separation. Ah, what could have been...
Gene Roddenberry had one simple thing when it came to starships with his series, "Starfleet Vessels had to be immediately identifiable".
You get a bunch of Star Trek fans, show them that picture and the first thing in their minds is "Vulcan Ship" because of that Warp Ring. But you show them a baddly drawn ship with a saucer and some warp nacelles, and the first thing you think of is "Federation Starship".
A good example of this was in Futurama when they had that race between George Takai and Scott Bakula in very crudely drawn ships, and people immediately knew they were ships from Star Trek.
As for progression, nobody is against progression. Just don't mess with the basics and start throwing kitchen sinks in the design because "it looks cool".
But it's not.
As I said, I personally would like Cryptic to focus their assets in getting the remaining canonical ships and other art assets in STO than wasting thousands of dollars in trying to buy design copyrights from that guy.
When Rademaker was making the Vesta, he specifically said his nacelles were meant to integrate the slipstream system. And he went back and forth with Eaves, Drexler, Okuda, Probert, etc. Then there is the ship that gave us slipstream, the Dauntless, that too had nacelles.
And with Transwarp, do I need not remind you of the Borg. Giant Cubes in space? I really don't think design has anything to do with that sysytem. :rolleyes:
So with all due respect, it's presumptuous to say a fan-designed ship trumps what was already established with cannonical designs.
No relation to "the" Nighthawk.
Refugee from Paragon City.
[SIGPIC]http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z297/MetalRacer78/FacesOfNighthawk-ForumSig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
I like the current Odyssey. It's smooth, elegant, streamlined, and fits right in with other Federation designs without looking like a lot of the aggressive, angular T5 starships we had at launch.
People who don't like it probably want something that looks more lean, like the Sovereign. The Odyssey is a bulky design that is not very intimidating, but it's not supposed to be a warship so that works for it, in my eyes.
Nah, I love big, bulky ships. One of my favorite STO designs is slapping all the biggest Star Cruiser parts - including the Nomad saucer - together.
The geometry of the dual necks and their interfaces with the other components make my eyes hurt.
It makes me really sad that the Odyssey fills the C-store role of the Star Cruiser, making the appearance of another one, compatible with the existing parts and lacking horrible eldritch geometry, unlikely.