There's more to combat in this game than raw damage output; upon which target that damage lands matters too. In most circumstances, even in PvE, I'd rather have my primary target dead first, rather than have a whole bunch of targets be weakened, which is what FaW 3 + Dual Beam Banks would do. This is also the proc chance to consider; I want any weapon procs to be on my primary target. Tetryon Glider works much better on cannon setups as well.
I'll take an escort with an all-cannon rig over something running FaW any day of the week in PvP, and I like to consider myself reasonably knowledgeable and experienced about that subject.
With all due respect OP your post suffers from major CAPITALIZATION ABUSE!!!111!!! And "MY BUILD is the BEST DPS BUILD EVER! There's NO WAY YOURS can be HIGHER! Mine is the best alwayszzz!! MINE! THE BESTEST!!!! ME!11111!!!" When I read it, in my head I imagined Don Lapre.
There's more than one way to skin a cat, and DPS isn't the only thing that matters in STF's.
This whole thread is pretty pointless. Highest DPS is much more then this simple calculation from the OP. No disrespect intended.
"
Only viable weapon types to maximize damage-
1. Anti-proton beams and cannons - Best if you run Starbase 24 and Elite STF's and crossover into pvp.
2. Disruptor beams and cannons - Best for elite STF's will give your team a major damage bonus, works well in SB24's and pvp as well but it's better to do AP if your crossing over. note: (I have 2 XII borg sets... a AP and a Disruptor and i've tested their viability in crossover and specific.)
3. Phasor Beams - Great for elite STF's will lower DPS everywhere else (same damage as disruptors and slightly more than AP.)
--- No other energy types are viable and will result in a DPS/Damage loss. Sorry that's just the way it is, once again if you don't believe me test it.---
"
Pure nonsense, My Polarons do just as much damage as any other weapontype, In PvP they outperform AP by far in overall damage in most situations for the simple reason that AP cannot have custom modifiers like other weapons can.
For the rest, max DPS depends on everything, you abilities, the timespan you try to calculate this 'max dps' for. Weapons range, weapon drain, weapon cycle, turnrate, weapontype(arc difference), the ability of player skill to keep someone in arc, the target you are firing against, buffs, etc, every situation can end up with more DPS in a different setup.
You can pretty safely say though that 4x DHC/Turret or DBB+x3 DHC +3 turrets is most likely the most efficient build in terms of shield/hull damage balance (Aiming towards highest shield TRIBBLE) and preferably against 1 single point which can tear your enemy apart. Also in terms of skilling in the tree its probably most efficient. No need to spec in torps or torp specialization required.
(Using APB + FOMM with this setup tears everything in STF PVE away as well including your feared cubes, spheres, etc)
Never the less, even so, a torp on a build can tear someone down even faster, it all depends on the situation, yet again.
Ofcourse my interpretation of high/efficient dps builds are more aimed with PVP in mind, who cares about STF's anyway they are way too easy with a good premade even on elite.
Well on my nattlecruiser i run 2x tetryon dual heavy cannons front, 2x quantum torpedoes front and 4 tetryon turrets aft. That gives me together with scatter volley, torpedo spread and 3 projectile doffs the best firepower in STFs.
A thought occurred to me while reading this: how do you not get aggro? I mean, if this build deals so much damage, I'm sure you can get aggro from a cube, especially with a pug. Also, FaW ticks off all of the Borg, and I know that it's tough to handle all the spheres that spawn in Infected even in a cruiser and especially with no tractor-breakers.
Seems that main school of a thought for a Tactical Escort is to run Hazzard Emitters and TSSII with your Science Boffs, which means you pretty much don't have room for Polarize Hull.
I really like ATB over Omega so I pretty much have to pray when I get held by a sphere or cube.
Does putting points in Inertial Damp help enough to justify not having Omega or polarize hull?
I know I could fix this by just respecting and dropping Torps from my build completely but it just wouldn't be the same without the sound effects from Torp Spread.
A thought occurred to me while reading this: how do you not get aggro? I mean, if this build deals so much damage, I'm sure you can get aggro from a cube, especially with a pug. Also, FaW ticks off all of the Borg, and I know that it's tough to handle all the spheres that spawn in Infected even in a cruiser and especially with no tractor-breakers.
Oh, you DO take aggro, of course. This is why in addition to putting points in DPS skills you need to put quite a bit of points in survival skills and damage reduction. The idea is not to be able to tank donatra from the front, but to survive long enough to get out of firing range (or arc).
Note that the problem only appears for:
- tactical cubes (normal cubes you can solo if you have decent survival and use the right skills)
- donatra (you may be able to survive the first salvo, but in a DPS escort, the second one will tear you apart).
- gateways: they do a ton of damage if you fire at them from too close.
- spheres by the dozen: one spere is ok, two are semi-ok, but if you aggro 5 of them you'll run out of surivival CDs before they run out of hull.
So in addition to activating the abilities for high DPS you need to be quick to get out of the way. You can also abuse the aggro mechanic by deliberately getting killed for a free aggro reset (will work once, more and you spend your life waiting for the respawn timer). This allows you to go back and stick your ship 0.5km from the target, with much damage boost for your cannons (which suck at 9 km range).
As VyperWoo correctly says, science slots are normally used for hazard emitters and TSS, so your best bet is AP omega. I prefer AP omega 3 + AP beta 2, since going the other way means AP beta 3 but only AP omega 1. You lose the top-level cannon abilities, but I'll take the damage+survival boost of AP omega 3 over any of the rank III cannon abilities.
I never tried the iniertial dampener thing, I had 3 points for some time and it's not the complete freedom which polarize hull or AP omega3 provide. After all I only care that tractor immunity lasts as much as emergency maneuvers, but I purely do PvE, I would not go this way for PvP.
1) Inertial Dampers aren't very effective against Borg tractors. You can turn, but you can't move.
2) This guide was made before the new death penalty, so I would say its effectiveness has dropped considerably if he normally dies 0-4 times in a run.
3) Points in defense on the skill tree won't do anything. You gain at most 20% survivability, but escorts are squishy enough that a plasma torp can tear through your hull and kill you almost instantly. And he doesn't have very many defensive points anyway. He puts 9 points into efficiency, which would be better used anywhere else. Those 3 top points give maybe 1-2 points of power in total, when you can toss them in Starship Shield Systems for a much better defensive bonus.
4) The list of issues you made is pretty substantial. I would add Negh'Vars and Raptors to that list, but only if they work together. That means that you nave no issues with the beginning of Infected, most of KA (minus Donatra and possibly the gate), and more than half of The Cure (carrier, killing probes/cube, protecting Kang). I'd rather have a build that only runs into issues against bosses.
5) I would run APO III with APB I and APB/D I. This way, at least once every minute (half-minute with Tac Initiative), I can escape tractors and get some better defenses.
6) If you run with a good cruiser with points in Threat Control, it's possible to not have the aggro issue.
The only two things that are not situational in STFs are attack pattern beta, as often and as strong as possible, and that tac team are amazing. APB because it boosts the entire teams final (not base) damage by up to 50% and tac team because it enables you to shield tank like a boss and grant a very minor DPS boost.
Everything else is a detail and/or situational. My scatter volley build is much better at tearing down the gate while keeping the probes dead all at the same time, while my rapid fire build kills a cube faster than any other, and my FAW build is on my Sci so it doesn't matter anyway :eek:. Oh thats right it puts APB 3 on everything and helps keep target's energy drained.
Btw, I take HY borg plasma torps in my escorts all the time, if your right up next to them it helps to kill those pesky cubes faster . Its really not that difficult/complicated to make an escort that can survive anything an STF can dish out without sacrificing much in the way of DPS. Last time I ran KA I even took two of donotra's big shots, granted that was with my engineer but still. If your escort is exploding in an STF you really need to re-evaluate your build IMHO. The key is pretty simple, boost kinetic hull resist as high as possible, rotate +resistance buffs properly, and pack enough heals/sustain to outlast the targets.
The only two things that are not situational in STFs are attack pattern beta, as often and as strong as possible, and that tac team are amazing. APB because it boosts the entire teams final (not base) damage by up to 50% and tac team because it enables you to shield tank like a boss and grant a very minor DPS boost.
Is there a formula somewhere for the damage boost? The resistance/damage modification formula on STO wiki covers the positive resistance values, is it the same when the resistances are pushed into the negative by APB/FoMM/Disruptors?
OP does not pass the smell test. Too many "i dont have time to explains" and "trust me i'm rights." At best this write up will only apply to cruisers (and even then I disagree on much) and is wholly inaccurate for escorts.
Does not receive the Sun Yu seal of approval for dps.
OP does not pass the smell test. Too many "i dont have time to explains" and "trust me i'm rights." At best this write up will only apply to cruisers (and even then I disagree on much) and is wholly inaccurate for escorts.
Does not receive the Sun Yu seal of approval for dps.
I mentioned a while back that the OP missed the DPS thread.
No one noticed.
i downloaded this but i cant find the combat log anywhere in my STO folder. the only things in my STO folder is a directx folder, STO setup file and a piggs folder. i typed /combatlog 1 in the text menu and everything. can anyone help me get this to work?
i downloaded this but i cant find the combat log anywhere in my STO folder. the only things in my STO folder is a directx folder, STO setup file and a piggs folder. i typed /combatlog 1 in the text menu and everything. can anyone help me get this to work?
/combatlog 1
_____________________ Fix the problem, not the blame
Googles turn up nothing, no how about an anwser, i know there's tools out there, but googles just keeps pointing to e-peening youtube videos and this threard.
I'll take an escort with an all-cannon rig over something running FaW any day of the week in PvP, and I like to consider myself reasonably knowledgeable and experienced about that subject.
This is where I land as well. I look at folks toting around torpedoes and I just cannot understand their reasoning.
With 4 AP consoles buffing my 4 front AP cannons and my 3 rear AP turrets, I look at my default 1,200 dps from each of my cannons (unbuffed, just the effect of the consoles) and I ponder the sanity of anyone bothering with a torpedo.
As for FaW and Scatter volley.. you won;t catch me with those. You dive into SB24 or Fleet Defense or borg elite missions or really any mission, and three things happen when you use the skills:
1) your dps "appears" to leap up and you scream "WHOOT". I say "appears" because the chances of your hits landing on all targets against unshielded sides is non existant. Grats, you just hit a bunch of shields and by the time you get around to taking down the individual marks, they will have regenerated. Wheee!
2) You TRIBBLE off a large number of targets
3) you start taking damage and are forced to turn for shield facing, or tuck tail and run out of range to recover.
DPS isn't about how high you can burst for an instant. It''s about how much you can contribute over the duration of a battle, and have the damage actually be relevant
I have all single target focused skills. I eat the shield facing me in no time and I kill that target. My defense are enough that I can take whatever the target wants to throw at me before it is dead (outside of some lucky shots from a tac cube or equivalent). I don't dodge, turn shield facings or run. That means that while you landed 6k for an instant and ran away, i am plugging away at 5k and never stop. In the end I vastly outperform you over the course of the battle.
Being dead = zero DPS
Running away = zero DPS
Turning away for shield facings = 20% DPS
How you play and what skills you choose and how you use them matters just as much as what weapons you have.
Go to the Foundry. Make a mission where there is one stationary object, a Tac Cube or what have you that does not fire and has no shields- just sits there. Launch the mission and start firing on it. Start the combat logger after you have started your attack. Continue the attack untill you have cycled through all your powers at least twice or three times or untill the cube pops whichever comes first. Stop the combat log mid-fire or immediately when the Cube explodes.
After a few times of doing this with multiple setups, ranges, skill sets, etc. I believe this might be the closest diagnostic of a ship's DPS that you would be able to measure.
This is a suggestion that brings up a pet peeve
This is NOT the way to measure your DPS. This is a way to measure your maximum burst DPS.
DPS happens over the course of an ENTIRE battle. It also includes the time you spend activating buffs and powers. It also includes times you may be forced to turn away from a target. It's the total ability to deliver EFFECTIVE DPS during the battle from start to finish.
What you suggest is perhaps a valid way to compare two different weapon set types to see how they compare to each other, but should never be considered real DPS.
********************** WHY YOU SHOULD GET A DPS METER - I started playing STO 3 weeks ago, after hitting 50 in 3 days and starting Elite STF's I knew I was sucking... after much research I found this DPS meter and started tweaking. I went from 800 DPS per Elite STF or about 1.5-2 million damage done to 7200 DPS and 15-18 MILLION DAMAGE DONE. IN STARBASE 24 I HAVE RANKED 1ST 43 TIMES IN A ROW. I have not seen a SINGLE person do more than HALF the DPS or total damage done in a Elite STF since my last tweak 1 week ago. I run 10-30 Elite STF's a day.************************************
Getting a DPS meter is the FIRST STEP to recognize your problems and fix them.
This is incorrect in many ways. Yes, I agree the DPS meter is a good tool .. but it ONLY (Again: ONLY) helps you improve your build when used under controlled test situations.
The why is simple: The 'dps meter' program only adds up your damage and divides it over time. All your damage no matter what it was or what it hit.
In essence, you can be firing AOE beam or cannon or torpedo at a cluster of ships with a gate or cube behind it and hitting them all for 10 minutes and not killing any of them or even bringing their shields down....and the DPS meter will say: OMG YOU DID SO MUCH DAMAGE! .
...now you see why the dps meter is not a good indicator of performance if used in an elite stf or any other place other than a very controlled test environment.
Next:
STEP 2 "WEAPON AND SKILL POINT OPTIMIZATION" Load Outs
NOTE: This guide will only cover All Beam Weapons because it is the highest possible DPS/Damage layout. CANNONS + 1 TORP ARE STILL AWESOME JUST BUILD YOURSELF CORRECTLY.
1. All Beam Weapons (Max possible dps from 6k to 9 or 10k depending if your amazing)
or
2. Cannons + 1 Torp (Max possible 4.5k to 7k depending on skill note-- does have higher single target damage but doesnt come close in AOE) MAKE SURE YOU USE 1 TORP TAC CONSOLE.
Wrong.
Cannons have the highest sustained DPS output if your ship and cannon is spec'd correctly. Key word: Sustained.
Beams have the most reliable sustained damage due to them not losing that much damage over distances.
Torpedoes have the highest damage against hulls.
Combo of ship weapons vary. A full cannon ship will significantly outdamage a cannon+torpedo ship but it won't outdamage a full beam ship if both are set to fire past 5km range. Inside 5km yes the cannons do much better.
Full projectile ships can do ungodly damage every 1 minute by combining mines and torpedoes. They are spike damage ships.
Next up:
Weapons
Only viable weapon types to maximize damage-
THESE ARE YOUR ONLY OPTIONS TO OPTIMIZE DPS AND DAMAGE. DO NOT RUN BEAM AND TORPS OR CANNONS AND BEAMS OR ALL CANNONS IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME GET THE DPS METER AND RUN ELITE STF'S TO TEST--- I DONT HAVE TIME TO GIVE A DETAILED EXPLAINATION WHY.
So very wrong. Again he is basing this on the unreliable dps meter.
In general, disruptor and antiproton perform better for damage due to their particular procs. All other weapon types have their procs geared to specific ship builds. A power drain ship with polarons can and does kill faster than a full antiproton ship because shutting a ship down means hull hits the entire time..whereas the full AP ship has to deal with shields popping up constantly. Tetryon likewise is excellent for low wep power support ships as it strips shields for friendlies (very nice when used with tetryon glider too).
The list goes on. The point is, each weapon can be as damaging as another if its used with the right combination of abilities.
- DO NOT USE BEAM OVERLOAD
- DO NOT USE BEAM TARGET SUBSYSTEM
- If you use these it will TRIBBLE up your DPS
Here's a perfect example of why the OP is seeing fantasy high DPS on the dps meter program. If he doesn't use beam overload then he must be using fire at will on his all-beam ship. Fire at will does a lot of damage to multiple RANDOM targets...so the dps meter just adds it up and presents it as OMFG damage to the gullible.
Case in point, an 8-beam odyssey using fire at will nonstop at multiple targets and never killing or really hurting one of them will out-dps an escort that kills all those multiple targets in one pass (one at a time) because the dps meter merely adds damage up it doesnt really see how effective the damage is.
Beam overload IS an extremely good ability. Beam ships set up to do heavy damage rely on it.
Subsystem target abilities can increase your DPS exponentially. Targeting engines and knocking them out will increase the damage target receives (and the amount of critical hits inflicted on it) by a significant amount. It lowers the target's defense rating. Engine subsystem attack followed by a beam overload 3 = very,very high damage.
DEBUNKING THE COMMON MYTH - "DPS calculators dont calculate my SKILL."
TRUTH - They do. Using DPS meters effectively will translate into you optimizing your class/skills/weapon layouts and combat techniques. If I didn't work on my survivability, combat awareness, broadsiding, time before engagement I WOULD NOT DO 7K DPS. Being skilled translates to a higher DPS/Damage done.
Funny thing is 7k dps is actually quite low for an escort.
DPS meters do not show effective damage, only total dumb damage inflicted.
This is incorrect in many ways. Yes, I agree the DPS meter is a good tool .. but it ONLY (Again: ONLY) helps you improve your build when used under controlled test situations.
Since STFs are the main testing ground for everyone, a DPS-Meter might as well be used there. Just for the sake of not over-simplifying anything:
You can have a controlled testing environment, but since it will most likely only be a part of a full STF run, you can't simply take it, add it to you overall result stack and then take the mean value. Each result has to be individually weighted to be of any use in the resulting calculation. Is the target moving. Are (if a bunch of targets exist) some of them obstructed and only pop up occasionally. Are the targets shields down. Has it been debuffed ... etc.
Every single point mentioned affects your DPS. Some more and some less. Some are actually nearly insignificant.
The why is simple: The 'dps meter' program only adds up your damage and divides it over time. All your damage no matter what it was or what it hit.
Abolutely right here.
But again: It totally depends,wether you will actually profit from this tool or not.
If you want to deceive yourself, then fire at an ever regenerating, stationary target. You'll feel great about yourself, but essentially you won't have done f-all.
If a person actually tries to be efficient in an STF chances are high, that the damage depicted in the meter is actually close to the viable damage inflicte (viable as in actually usefull to the fulfillment of the mission and hopefully rather efficient).
A huge deal in achieving this is simple positioning. Position yourself in a way you won't be hitting the gate, but just the spheres in Infected-Space or just the probes and generators in KithomerAccord-Space. That's of course not always possible, but if you don't waste your DPS, then it will show you a more real value, that you can actually use to improve upon yourself.
In conclusion to this:AOE abilities aren't useless (or uselessly over-inflating you DPS), if used with a good firing-position.
A full cannon ship will significantly outdamage a cannon+torpedo ship ...
I personally can't say that's true. The difference is maybe 5% on what i've seen and that can go both ways. Truth be told i don't really care ... One torp just spices everything up a lot. Cannon boats are just too plain, too streamlined. It's just not fun enough. And i still think getting rid of one DHC in favor of a torp actually helpes you. 12 less power on average consumed is 24% damage you will get more out of your other weapons firing at a different cycle.
Funny thing is 7k dps is actually quite low for an escort.
(ok now i'm adressing the quoted poster directly) Really?
Since the average escort player in STO does around 3k to 4k DPS in a STF this statement is just plain wrong. Maybe you do a lot more, but since you yourself deem the DPS meter a not very useful tool anyway (at least in an STF testing environment) this statement seems a bit out of place.
DPS is actually the value that should be taken, after the fight is done (ideallya less then 15 min period). Each time you die, take into consideration that you do 0 DPS for 15*n seconds and that the meter might restart it's count, affectively not counting your downtime.
If you really are better than the 7k "low" DPS score, then (effectivly) you must be doing over 11k DPS by yourself (sustained), while firing your weapons. I say this, because there is always downtime in a STF. You will always have no firing periods, where you try to reposition yourself or avoid destruction, or what have you. And assuming 7k is low i'm assuming you do a constant of 9k to 11k (or even more).
If you really think 7k is low, go into a random (Elite-STF) PUG and start your meter. Having only your own buff or debuffs at your disposal might prove a challenge.
With a good team on the other hand (buffing each other and applying cumulative debuffs (to your target), more then 7k are probably feasable.
Personally i don't like to die in an STF, cause downtime is always boring. I could substitute some of my BOFF skills (engineering or science) with more DPS enhancing skills or focus more an self-buffs and less on debuffs, but first off i don't want to die and second off, i don't want to be a selfish prick.
BTW (not to brag :rolleyes:) i'm doing 6,5k to 7,5k and mostly only with a good team (for a PUG group at least)
In regards to dropping the DBB, that could net you a loss of DPS, due to the Ens BO slot that is wasted.
WIth only 1 Launcher, Projectile Doffs are not that usefull, but with loads of launchers they become invaluable, You are prolly better off with ET and ST doffs to kick out ALOT more healing.
If you think you are doing a significant amount of damage with mines then you have no idea how to play.
Nice post. I do 7k in my Fleet Tac-R, I tend to come up first 90% of the time in Fleet Actions and placed first in CE in a team of 20 or so. Hopefully this has bettered the damage output of a quite a few people.
I'm not really going to weigh in on the whole DPS build topic, as I'm still working out how I like my own builds, and won't dictate to others. However there is much I agree with and disagree with.
One point in specific: The different roles you take can dictate what your end DPS is. However, the example was kang guardian. The claim was this gives you more DPS. False!
Guarding Kang has consistently in every STF I have tracked with battlelog given LESS DPS than other roles. For one, you are performing a support role, and a necessary role, but BoPs have very little hull points. That's a finite amount of damage you can rack up, even if you do your job right. Further you're spending half your time travelling back and forth. Especially with MRRMLL. If you do 3-pronged attacks where the BOP man covers 1 lane while hitting nanites, you have a much higher dps, but otherwise if you're doing BoPs only you wil have a fraction of your DPS potential recorded in your stats tracker.
On the other hand, you might think KASE probe duty has the same problem, but it doesn't. I've got many top DPS matches on probe duty. The answer is simple: You have your own cubes to deal with and the nanites and the transformers to constantly keep your fire rate up. Firing more = more dps. Constant fire helps more than burst I would wager. It's the pauses in your firing that hurt dps overall, so taking off-side probe duty on KASE is a good way to get top DPS.
3k for a cruiser isnt good, with slacking and a lot of room for improvement 4.5k is norm for tac capt (eng cap will be few hundred dps less). Regular Assault Cruiser can easily get to 6k and more.
8 beams are great with 125 power to weapons, lower than that and turrets will be same if not better dps (its about power consumption per shot). Beams rock with fire at will but its in many situation not best idea to use, turret canon skill rapid shot is great for single target and you can use it every time its up. Another plus of turrets is for not to good pilots that have issues with broadsides tactics, as turrets have 360 degree firing arc and you will always hit with all 8.
In your setup i didnt noticed assimilated console, if you want to do any decent dps this thing is a must have. It came from first mission in undine line episodes.
About weapon dmg types:
I agree antiproton is great, disruptor is decent too, but tetryon kick *** too with nice build, its great for striping shields from opponent (combine with omega set 2 set bonus, tetryon glider, without dont bother), if tac cube have 0 shields and you run with random pug they attack from all sides, if shields are down cube and tac cube die much much faster.
If you run tanker healer cruiser and have far less than 125 weapon power tetryon with glider is way to go as it helps team much more than raw (low without 125 power) dmg.
I also played 3 weeks, my assault cruiser dps is around 5k through elite stf, could be much more but i need respec and its quite costly:(
Oh dont forget to cycle emergency power to weapons and shields, this helps a lot.
Just my 2c.
Edit. ps. Sardoc, polaron with Jem'hadar set is good dps, but i would advise against it in elite stfs. Issue is the plasma dmg coming from enemies, and JH shields have only 10% resistence to all. Best shield is maco for feds, as its same as jh 10% + 20% to plasma. Best setup imho is maco shield + omega engine, deflector for glider, but only if you have the skill that increase its strength, if not and you dont want to respec best setup i found out is: maco shield + deflector + retro borg engine + assimilated console. You get nice 2set bonuses from both maco and retro borg setcand maco shields are great against borgs. I can tank tac cube in elite from 20 sec to max 1.5 minutes depending if reverse shield polarity was up when i started tanking (i have 2 of those for 1 rsp each minute).
Ironically, even though this post was overlooked it had a hell of a lot more Truth-per-Sentence than the OP ever did.
Please do not put beams on your Defiants or whatever. Thank you.
Spec into Particle Gens to 6, projectiles to 9, carry a TBR2 (before the current buggy TBR2), Isometric charge.
1 projectile damage console, 1 quantum torp in front, 1 tricobalt mine in back (no disp pattern)
3 badass borg DHC's in front- disruptor/AP, 2 turrets in back
4 energy damage consoles, borg, tachyokinectic converter, field gen, monotanium alloy
EPTS1-2, HE1/TSS1, TBR2, 2x TT1 - won't tank the crit plasmas very well, keep BFI for that.
8500K DPS over the full length of the STF... but... pfft that. You have to be able to lay the damage right, so, debuff, penetrate shield facing, actually DESTROY the targets, that's what good spike damage is for. All that beam FAW all that bull that put up huge numbers in ACT isn't worth a hill of turds if you don't make the kills and clear out threats. 5 loaded FAW3 tac oddy's on full beam broadside blah blah blah won't get it done. Gotta spike, spike hard, spike often. Don't be dropping trikes or torps on shielded targets. Duh. Believe it or not, past about 8000-9000 DPS (achievable) it's too much AOE and is misleading. If you smash your targets quickly, your DPS will lower as you're using it more efficiently. You can do 14K DPS and not win a thing, because all you're doing is laying down fire into shielded opponents. The hull is what matters. Pop the target, get back on another target asap. Raw DPS to a high level is a good start, but you've gotta be able to pilot right, time buffs and debuffs right, and you can roll and STF despite "only" doing 6-7K DPS. Can ya hear me now?
And for god's sake, stop subnuking Nanite Gens/Transformers- they don't throw any buffs... Nuke the gates and tac cubes dadgum FAW and THY.. lord..
I under stand this is a PVE style build so to add to the PVP side an all energy based build will make out against fed players an energy weapon build + 1torp of mine will max out your build against klings if spect right. Also 7k dps is the low average for a high lvl pvp player in spike dps. I've seen ships have 4 mil damage and not a single kill why because he was just an annoying. Go for the kill.
-"There is no such thing as an I win button!""Um, Sir. Whats this button that says (I win) for then?"
This wouldn't be the ONLY way of measuring effectiveness. It could be a place to start.
Basically your boat is more effective if you can kill things in a hurry. If it takes you 60 seconds to down a target, meh. If it takes you 15 seconds to down the same target, okay, you're making an impact!
Bottom line: how long it takes you to kill something is a potentially more useful stat than your overall DPS.
While DPS certainly plays a role in your "TTK", as some other posters have noted, you could rack up huge DPS numbers without necessarily being that effective in the game. It's really about killing things quickly, so you can move on to the next target, or to help your team mates. This TTK stat could even be part of your reputation in STFs. It could be taken cumulatively over a period of several STFs and then attached to your info. It might make for more thoughtful pairings if you're in an STF team and you see everyone has a higher TTK rating than you. I know, there are lots of variables to consider...I'm just positing an idea. Thanks for the great info. Peace.
I am going to be seeing about getting a carrier soon and was wondering if you could have your fleet member give me a heads up with his set up. Weps, fighters, consoles and skills. I'm Galeighan Socratain@lego80 Fleet leader of U.S.S. Starchaser. Hey thank you so much for this feed back. I'm in the middle of using your tips as we speak and look forward to the results. Thank you
I have been playing this game a bit now and I have to say this...The op Is not completely correct.
First off consider your roles. Science can do some insane damage and only mount torps and turrets. Using abilitis that strip shields or debuff then let out a stream of torps that will make you cry. Have seen one lay out over 200k damage in one burst.
Second the op comes off thinking there is only one form of dps..Again wrong. There is constant dps and Burst dps. Take your typical tac escort build using ap...These would be burst dps. getting boost from critting and having the bonus to crit severity. Then you have beam boats shooting off a constant broad side against targets. Now what energy you choose really matters. The top three to pick and really the only ones worth taking are, Disrupters, Antiproton, Plasma. No the last one plasma can easily be replaced once you get the console that adds plasma effect to all your weapons.
If your a smart player who thinks of more then just his own dps ego you will go with Disrupter for a very simple reason. less resistance equals more damage. Ap is fine but does nothing to improve the overall group damage. Now some will argue about the power types doing this that and the other. Ask yourself this. do any of those power work on gateways or generators?
Third Beam is better...Seriously how much crack are you smoking. And your 4x energy for you tac console is very very flawed. This game uses a diminished return system. So say you have 4x 30% energy consoles. First will give you 30 next one will give you less so about 50% or so. 4x basicly caps out about 80%. Now if your using all one type of weapons such as cannons only or beam only you can use other consoles like prefire chamber and get even more dps. Your claim of having such a high dps from you meter with out this is very hard to believe.
And finally after reading every one of your false claims as well as lack of any viable info I can say that you are propagating so much false info its just stupid. Btw you can have the most dps in the world but if you cant take a hit your just as useless. glass cannon builds are pretty much one trick ponies. Less your a romulan then you can do some rather interesting things to drop agro and come back with even more dps exploiting the hell out of the battle cloak.
Comments
I'll take an escort with an all-cannon rig over something running FaW any day of the week in PvP, and I like to consider myself reasonably knowledgeable and experienced about that subject.
There's more than one way to skin a cat, and DPS isn't the only thing that matters in STF's.
/'just sayin'.
PS - there's some good info there, but, c'mon.
"
Only viable weapon types to maximize damage-
1. Anti-proton beams and cannons - Best if you run Starbase 24 and Elite STF's and crossover into pvp.
2. Disruptor beams and cannons - Best for elite STF's will give your team a major damage bonus, works well in SB24's and pvp as well but it's better to do AP if your crossing over. note: (I have 2 XII borg sets... a AP and a Disruptor and i've tested their viability in crossover and specific.)
3. Phasor Beams - Great for elite STF's will lower DPS everywhere else (same damage as disruptors and slightly more than AP.)
--- No other energy types are viable and will result in a DPS/Damage loss. Sorry that's just the way it is, once again if you don't believe me test it.---
"
Pure nonsense, My Polarons do just as much damage as any other weapontype, In PvP they outperform AP by far in overall damage in most situations for the simple reason that AP cannot have custom modifiers like other weapons can.
For the rest, max DPS depends on everything, you abilities, the timespan you try to calculate this 'max dps' for. Weapons range, weapon drain, weapon cycle, turnrate, weapontype(arc difference), the ability of player skill to keep someone in arc, the target you are firing against, buffs, etc, every situation can end up with more DPS in a different setup.
You can pretty safely say though that 4x DHC/Turret or DBB+x3 DHC +3 turrets is most likely the most efficient build in terms of shield/hull damage balance (Aiming towards highest shield TRIBBLE) and preferably against 1 single point which can tear your enemy apart. Also in terms of skilling in the tree its probably most efficient. No need to spec in torps or torp specialization required.
(Using APB + FOMM with this setup tears everything in STF PVE away as well including your feared cubes, spheres, etc)
Never the less, even so, a torp on a build can tear someone down even faster, it all depends on the situation, yet again.
Ofcourse my interpretation of high/efficient dps builds are more aimed with PVP in mind, who cares about STF's anyway they are way too easy with a good premade even on elite.
I really like ATB over Omega so I pretty much have to pray when I get held by a sphere or cube.
Does putting points in Inertial Damp help enough to justify not having Omega or polarize hull?
I know I could fix this by just respecting and dropping Torps from my build completely but it just wouldn't be the same without the sound effects from Torp Spread.
Any thoughts?
Oh, you DO take aggro, of course. This is why in addition to putting points in DPS skills you need to put quite a bit of points in survival skills and damage reduction. The idea is not to be able to tank donatra from the front, but to survive long enough to get out of firing range (or arc).
Note that the problem only appears for:
- tactical cubes (normal cubes you can solo if you have decent survival and use the right skills)
- donatra (you may be able to survive the first salvo, but in a DPS escort, the second one will tear you apart).
- gateways: they do a ton of damage if you fire at them from too close.
- spheres by the dozen: one spere is ok, two are semi-ok, but if you aggro 5 of them you'll run out of surivival CDs before they run out of hull.
So in addition to activating the abilities for high DPS you need to be quick to get out of the way. You can also abuse the aggro mechanic by deliberately getting killed for a free aggro reset (will work once, more and you spend your life waiting for the respawn timer). This allows you to go back and stick your ship 0.5km from the target, with much damage boost for your cannons (which suck at 9 km range).
As VyperWoo correctly says, science slots are normally used for hazard emitters and TSS, so your best bet is AP omega. I prefer AP omega 3 + AP beta 2, since going the other way means AP beta 3 but only AP omega 1. You lose the top-level cannon abilities, but I'll take the damage+survival boost of AP omega 3 over any of the rank III cannon abilities.
I never tried the iniertial dampener thing, I had 3 points for some time and it's not the complete freedom which polarize hull or AP omega3 provide. After all I only care that tractor immunity lasts as much as emergency maneuvers, but I purely do PvE, I would not go this way for PvP.
2) This guide was made before the new death penalty, so I would say its effectiveness has dropped considerably if he normally dies 0-4 times in a run.
3) Points in defense on the skill tree won't do anything. You gain at most 20% survivability, but escorts are squishy enough that a plasma torp can tear through your hull and kill you almost instantly. And he doesn't have very many defensive points anyway. He puts 9 points into efficiency, which would be better used anywhere else. Those 3 top points give maybe 1-2 points of power in total, when you can toss them in Starship Shield Systems for a much better defensive bonus.
4) The list of issues you made is pretty substantial. I would add Negh'Vars and Raptors to that list, but only if they work together. That means that you nave no issues with the beginning of Infected, most of KA (minus Donatra and possibly the gate), and more than half of The Cure (carrier, killing probes/cube, protecting Kang). I'd rather have a build that only runs into issues against bosses.
5) I would run APO III with APB I and APB/D I. This way, at least once every minute (half-minute with Tac Initiative), I can escape tractors and get some better defenses.
6) If you run with a good cruiser with points in Threat Control, it's possible to not have the aggro issue.
Everything else is a detail and/or situational. My scatter volley build is much better at tearing down the gate while keeping the probes dead all at the same time, while my rapid fire build kills a cube faster than any other, and my FAW build is on my Sci so it doesn't matter anyway :eek:. Oh thats right it puts APB 3 on everything and helps keep target's energy drained.
Btw, I take HY borg plasma torps in my escorts all the time, if your right up next to them it helps to kill those pesky cubes faster
Is there a formula somewhere for the damage boost? The resistance/damage modification formula on STO wiki covers the positive resistance values, is it the same when the resistances are pushed into the negative by APB/FoMM/Disruptors?
Does not receive the Sun Yu seal of approval for dps.
I mentioned a while back that the OP missed the DPS thread.
No one noticed.
/combatlog 1
Fix the problem, not the blame
How do you not fall down more? Link
Fix the problem, not the blame
This is where I land as well. I look at folks toting around torpedoes and I just cannot understand their reasoning.
With 4 AP consoles buffing my 4 front AP cannons and my 3 rear AP turrets, I look at my default 1,200 dps from each of my cannons (unbuffed, just the effect of the consoles) and I ponder the sanity of anyone bothering with a torpedo.
As for FaW and Scatter volley.. you won;t catch me with those. You dive into SB24 or Fleet Defense or borg elite missions or really any mission, and three things happen when you use the skills:
1) your dps "appears" to leap up and you scream "WHOOT". I say "appears" because the chances of your hits landing on all targets against unshielded sides is non existant. Grats, you just hit a bunch of shields and by the time you get around to taking down the individual marks, they will have regenerated. Wheee!
2) You TRIBBLE off a large number of targets
3) you start taking damage and are forced to turn for shield facing, or tuck tail and run out of range to recover.
DPS isn't about how high you can burst for an instant. It''s about how much you can contribute over the duration of a battle, and have the damage actually be relevant
I have all single target focused skills. I eat the shield facing me in no time and I kill that target. My defense are enough that I can take whatever the target wants to throw at me before it is dead (outside of some lucky shots from a tac cube or equivalent). I don't dodge, turn shield facings or run. That means that while you landed 6k for an instant and ran away, i am plugging away at 5k and never stop. In the end I vastly outperform you over the course of the battle.
Being dead = zero DPS
Running away = zero DPS
Turning away for shield facings = 20% DPS
How you play and what skills you choose and how you use them matters just as much as what weapons you have.
This is a suggestion that brings up a pet peeve
This is NOT the way to measure your DPS. This is a way to measure your maximum burst DPS.
DPS happens over the course of an ENTIRE battle. It also includes the time you spend activating buffs and powers. It also includes times you may be forced to turn away from a target. It's the total ability to deliver EFFECTIVE DPS during the battle from start to finish.
What you suggest is perhaps a valid way to compare two different weapon set types to see how they compare to each other, but should never be considered real DPS.
This is incorrect in many ways. Yes, I agree the DPS meter is a good tool .. but it ONLY (Again: ONLY) helps you improve your build when used under controlled test situations.
The why is simple: The 'dps meter' program only adds up your damage and divides it over time. All your damage no matter what it was or what it hit.
In essence, you can be firing AOE beam or cannon or torpedo at a cluster of ships with a gate or cube behind it and hitting them all for 10 minutes and not killing any of them or even bringing their shields down....and the DPS meter will say: OMG YOU DID SO MUCH DAMAGE! .
...now you see why the dps meter is not a good indicator of performance if used in an elite stf or any other place other than a very controlled test environment.
Next:
Wrong.
Cannons have the highest sustained DPS output if your ship and cannon is spec'd correctly. Key word: Sustained.
Beams have the most reliable sustained damage due to them not losing that much damage over distances.
Torpedoes have the highest damage against hulls.
Combo of ship weapons vary. A full cannon ship will significantly outdamage a cannon+torpedo ship but it won't outdamage a full beam ship if both are set to fire past 5km range. Inside 5km yes the cannons do much better.
Full projectile ships can do ungodly damage every 1 minute by combining mines and torpedoes. They are spike damage ships.
Next up:
So very wrong. Again he is basing this on the unreliable dps meter.
In general, disruptor and antiproton perform better for damage due to their particular procs. All other weapon types have their procs geared to specific ship builds. A power drain ship with polarons can and does kill faster than a full antiproton ship because shutting a ship down means hull hits the entire time..whereas the full AP ship has to deal with shields popping up constantly. Tetryon likewise is excellent for low wep power support ships as it strips shields for friendlies (very nice when used with tetryon glider too).
The list goes on. The point is, each weapon can be as damaging as another if its used with the right combination of abilities.
Here's a perfect example of why the OP is seeing fantasy high DPS on the dps meter program. If he doesn't use beam overload then he must be using fire at will on his all-beam ship. Fire at will does a lot of damage to multiple RANDOM targets...so the dps meter just adds it up and presents it as OMFG damage to the gullible.
Case in point, an 8-beam odyssey using fire at will nonstop at multiple targets and never killing or really hurting one of them will out-dps an escort that kills all those multiple targets in one pass (one at a time) because the dps meter merely adds damage up it doesnt really see how effective the damage is.
Beam overload IS an extremely good ability. Beam ships set up to do heavy damage rely on it.
Subsystem target abilities can increase your DPS exponentially. Targeting engines and knocking them out will increase the damage target receives (and the amount of critical hits inflicted on it) by a significant amount. It lowers the target's defense rating. Engine subsystem attack followed by a beam overload 3 = very,very high damage.
Funny thing is 7k dps is actually quite low for an escort.
DPS meters do not show effective damage, only total dumb damage inflicted.
Play smart, do it right. Have fun.
Since STFs are the main testing ground for everyone, a DPS-Meter might as well be used there.
Just for the sake of not over-simplifying anything:
You can have a controlled testing environment, but since it will most likely only be a part of a full STF run, you can't simply take it, add it to you overall result stack and then take the mean value. Each result has to be individually weighted to be of any use in the resulting calculation. Is the target moving. Are (if a bunch of targets exist) some of them obstructed and only pop up occasionally. Are the targets shields down. Has it been debuffed ... etc.
Every single point mentioned affects your DPS. Some more and some less. Some are actually nearly insignificant.
Abolutely right here.
But again: It totally depends,wether you will actually profit from this tool or not.
If you want to deceive yourself, then fire at an ever regenerating, stationary target. You'll feel great about yourself, but essentially you won't have done f-all.
If a person actually tries to be efficient in an STF chances are high, that the damage depicted in the meter is actually close to the viable damage inflicte (viable as in actually usefull to the fulfillment of the mission and hopefully rather efficient).
A huge deal in achieving this is simple positioning. Position yourself in a way you won't be hitting the gate, but just the spheres in Infected-Space or just the probes and generators in KithomerAccord-Space. That's of course not always possible, but if you don't waste your DPS, then it will show you a more real value, that you can actually use to improve upon yourself.
In conclusion to this:AOE abilities aren't useless (or uselessly over-inflating you DPS), if used with a good firing-position.
I personally can't say that's true. The difference is maybe 5% on what i've seen and that can go both ways. Truth be told i don't really care ... One torp just spices everything up a lot. Cannon boats are just too plain, too streamlined. It's just not fun enough. And i still think getting rid of one DHC in favor of a torp actually helpes you. 12 less power on average consumed is 24% damage you will get more out of your other weapons firing at a different cycle.
(ok now i'm adressing the quoted poster directly) Really?
Since the average escort player in STO does around 3k to 4k DPS in a STF this statement is just plain wrong. Maybe you do a lot more, but since you yourself deem the DPS meter a not very useful tool anyway (at least in an STF testing environment) this statement seems a bit out of place.
DPS is actually the value that should be taken, after the fight is done (ideallya less then 15 min period). Each time you die, take into consideration that you do 0 DPS for 15*n seconds and that the meter might restart it's count, affectively not counting your downtime.
If you really are better than the 7k "low" DPS score, then (effectivly) you must be doing over 11k DPS by yourself (sustained), while firing your weapons. I say this, because there is always downtime in a STF. You will always have no firing periods, where you try to reposition yourself or avoid destruction, or what have you. And assuming 7k is low i'm assuming you do a constant of 9k to 11k (or even more).
If you really think 7k is low, go into a random (Elite-STF) PUG and start your meter. Having only your own buff or debuffs at your disposal might prove a challenge.
With a good team on the other hand (buffing each other and applying cumulative debuffs (to your target), more then 7k are probably feasable.
Personally i don't like to die in an STF, cause downtime is always boring. I could substitute some of my BOFF skills (engineering or science) with more DPS enhancing skills or focus more an self-buffs and less on debuffs, but first off i don't want to die and second off, i don't want to be a selfish prick.
BTW (not to brag :rolleyes:) i'm doing 6,5k to 7,5k and mostly only with a good team (for a PUG group at least)
If you think you are doing a significant amount of damage with mines then you have no idea how to play.
Valdus | Charn | Costello | Typhus | Thyran
One point in specific: The different roles you take can dictate what your end DPS is. However, the example was kang guardian. The claim was this gives you more DPS. False!
Guarding Kang has consistently in every STF I have tracked with battlelog given LESS DPS than other roles. For one, you are performing a support role, and a necessary role, but BoPs have very little hull points. That's a finite amount of damage you can rack up, even if you do your job right. Further you're spending half your time travelling back and forth. Especially with MRRMLL. If you do 3-pronged attacks where the BOP man covers 1 lane while hitting nanites, you have a much higher dps, but otherwise if you're doing BoPs only you wil have a fraction of your DPS potential recorded in your stats tracker.
On the other hand, you might think KASE probe duty has the same problem, but it doesn't. I've got many top DPS matches on probe duty. The answer is simple: You have your own cubes to deal with and the nanites and the transformers to constantly keep your fire rate up. Firing more = more dps. Constant fire helps more than burst I would wager. It's the pauses in your firing that hurt dps overall, so taking off-side probe duty on KASE is a good way to get top DPS.
Ironically, even though this post was overlooked it had a hell of a lot more Truth-per-Sentence than the OP ever did.
Please do not put beams on your Defiants or whatever. Thank you.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Spec into Particle Gens to 6, projectiles to 9, carry a TBR2 (before the current buggy TBR2), Isometric charge.
1 projectile damage console, 1 quantum torp in front, 1 tricobalt mine in back (no disp pattern)
3 badass borg DHC's in front- disruptor/AP, 2 turrets in back
4 energy damage consoles, borg, tachyokinectic converter, field gen, monotanium alloy
EPTS1-2, HE1/TSS1, TBR2, 2x TT1 - won't tank the crit plasmas very well, keep BFI for that.
8500K DPS over the full length of the STF... but... pfft that. You have to be able to lay the damage right, so, debuff, penetrate shield facing, actually DESTROY the targets, that's what good spike damage is for. All that beam FAW all that bull that put up huge numbers in ACT isn't worth a hill of turds if you don't make the kills and clear out threats. 5 loaded FAW3 tac oddy's on full beam broadside blah blah blah won't get it done. Gotta spike, spike hard, spike often. Don't be dropping trikes or torps on shielded targets. Duh. Believe it or not, past about 8000-9000 DPS (achievable) it's too much AOE and is misleading. If you smash your targets quickly, your DPS will lower as you're using it more efficiently. You can do 14K DPS and not win a thing, because all you're doing is laying down fire into shielded opponents. The hull is what matters. Pop the target, get back on another target asap. Raw DPS to a high level is a good start, but you've gotta be able to pilot right, time buffs and debuffs right, and you can roll and STF despite "only" doing 6-7K DPS. Can ya hear me now?
And for god's sake, stop subnuking Nanite Gens/Transformers- they don't throw any buffs... Nuke the gates and tac cubes dadgum FAW and THY.. lord..
"Time to Kill."
This wouldn't be the ONLY way of measuring effectiveness. It could be a place to start.
Basically your boat is more effective if you can kill things in a hurry. If it takes you 60 seconds to down a target, meh. If it takes you 15 seconds to down the same target, okay, you're making an impact!
Bottom line: how long it takes you to kill something is a potentially more useful stat than your overall DPS.
While DPS certainly plays a role in your "TTK", as some other posters have noted, you could rack up huge DPS numbers without necessarily being that effective in the game. It's really about killing things quickly, so you can move on to the next target, or to help your team mates. This TTK stat could even be part of your reputation in STFs. It could be taken cumulatively over a period of several STFs and then attached to your info. It might make for more thoughtful pairings if you're in an STF team and you see everyone has a higher TTK rating than you. I know, there are lots of variables to consider...I'm just positing an idea. Thanks for the great info. Peace.
First off consider your roles. Science can do some insane damage and only mount torps and turrets. Using abilitis that strip shields or debuff then let out a stream of torps that will make you cry. Have seen one lay out over 200k damage in one burst.
Second the op comes off thinking there is only one form of dps..Again wrong. There is constant dps and Burst dps. Take your typical tac escort build using ap...These would be burst dps. getting boost from critting and having the bonus to crit severity. Then you have beam boats shooting off a constant broad side against targets. Now what energy you choose really matters. The top three to pick and really the only ones worth taking are, Disrupters, Antiproton, Plasma. No the last one plasma can easily be replaced once you get the console that adds plasma effect to all your weapons.
If your a smart player who thinks of more then just his own dps ego you will go with Disrupter for a very simple reason. less resistance equals more damage. Ap is fine but does nothing to improve the overall group damage. Now some will argue about the power types doing this that and the other. Ask yourself this. do any of those power work on gateways or generators?
Third Beam is better...Seriously how much crack are you smoking. And your 4x energy for you tac console is very very flawed. This game uses a diminished return system. So say you have 4x 30% energy consoles. First will give you 30 next one will give you less so about 50% or so. 4x basicly caps out about 80%. Now if your using all one type of weapons such as cannons only or beam only you can use other consoles like prefire chamber and get even more dps. Your claim of having such a high dps from you meter with out this is very hard to believe.
And finally after reading every one of your false claims as well as lack of any viable info I can say that you are propagating so much false info its just stupid. Btw you can have the most dps in the world but if you cant take a hit your just as useless. glass cannon builds are pretty much one trick ponies. Less your a romulan then you can do some rather interesting things to drop agro and come back with even more dps exploiting the hell out of the battle cloak.