please join organizedpvp chat channel in game and ask aorund for a 1v1. you will not wait long to find one wholl accept your challenge. despite your mit genius, you may find there are many more factors involved in pvp than shear dps and rsp....
gl hf
I want to see some screencaps when this challenge gets accepted!
This may be buried, but there's a few dynamics that everyone has been tossing around already that probably should be codified.
First, the OP makes some good points, namely:
1) It's impossible to know how well you compare to others without the CombatLogParser or feeding the CombatLog through a spreadsheet.
2)If you are looking for nothing but DPS, then then the equipment you're wearing should reflect that. (Namely OMEGA force)
That being said, DPS calculators actually do not calculate your skill and do not reflect how "good" your build is. The reason for this is the nature of how buffs, debuffs, and boff slots work in STO.
Here's an easy example:
2 Escorts are shooting at something. One uses his commander slot for Attack Pattern Beta 3 (APB3), the other for Cannon Rapid Fire 3 (CRF3).
APB3 debuffs the target's dmg resistance by 50 (max attack pattern). This helps both escorts do dmg.
CRF3 increases your attack speed by 50% (50% more DPS for 10 sec). This only helps the escort with the ability.
The escort with APB3 will do less DPS than the other escort, if however, you were to take the dmg difference they both would have done without APB3 it would be clear that APB3 was as a whole, more useful. Additionally, 2 APB3s would have resulted in an even higher dmg increase between both escorts.
tl;dr You can get a bigger DPS value than your team mates just by being cleverly selfish and taking a self-buff while they take debuffs. The other thing I want to mention is that damage is relative. That is to say, your total damage will be a result of the # of debuffs that are thrown on your target and the # of buffs you can activate on yourself. A team with 5 APB3s stacking on a target will result in higher DPS for everyone, but on your own you'd never get anywhere near those values.
As such what you want to look at is the % dmg difference between you and everyone else.
i.e. The top DPSer did 20% more dmg than you. Why? And are you OK with that?
I'd also like to point out that while dps is a critical metric for being competitive,players should make their build around a role, rather than around their dps.
As an escort you may decide that you're willing to lose 10% of your DPS to reliably kill a Cube solo. As such you'd drop OMEGA and pick up 3-piece Borg.
Why would you? Because if you don't run with a premade group with a tank then you can't depend on your random team every time. You may decide that the DPS loss if preferable to getting aggro and dying every cube.
If you're a science vessel or cruiser however, what you're probably looking for is only a DPS that is relevant to the fight. A cruiser may .. for example, be soley concerned with getting enough DPS to hold aggro off the escorts, in which case, that is what their DPS goals should be and that should be reflected in their boff ability selection and build.
Finally, looking at everyone post their e-peens on this thread, it's clear that the DPS #s are skewed not only because of group composition and # of debuffs/buffs in each report, but also because people tend to either log DPS for an entire STF or a major fight, like the Tactical Cube.
The DPS for an entire STF is a poor metric to determine how well you're doing because many STFs have gimmicks and roles that will skew the numbers.
As an example, a Kang defender will likely have more DPS than the cube attackers in Cure Space Elite (CSE) because he's free to AoE a steady stream of BoPs.
DPS for a major fight, like the Tactical cube, is better but should also be taken with a grain of salt.
People tend to hit their long cooldown abilities for this fight (especially if they're logging themselves). Tacticals will hit every button, Science will summon their holograms, etc.
If the fight only lasts a significant portion of these buff durations, then the numbers that you'll see from DPS meter is not your sustained DPS. That doesn't mean it's not important, but keep in mind it's not something that you'll achieve against a sufficiently hardy target.
two side notes:
1)Assuming a sufficiently long fight. Cannons are superior to beams because:
a) Cannon abilities are far superior, as they affect all cannons/turrets on your ship for 10 seconds while beams only affect 1 beam for 1 attack (Overload) or all beams for 1 volley (Fire at Will). Additionally beams do not have an AoE that's useable as AoE DPS.
b) Base Beam dps only wins out against cannons till ~5KM, at which point Cannons (Dual) start to pull ahead.
2) I would never build any DPS build for single target. The only STF where killing the boss in record time matters is ISE, and that STF is considered to be the easiest to obtain the optional. As such speccing to have the highest time remaining on the optional is just an excercise in theory and your e-peen.
For all other STFs, by the time you get to the boss, you're done with the optional, so DPS builds should be more geared toward the utility of AoE to increase the efficiency of obtaining the optional.
Oh... and here is a link to Combat Log Parser. I would recommend you all use version 0.1 as 0.2 often has display problems.
The Parser does accurately display mines, photonic fleet, and all spawned source projectiles (Heavy Plasma & Tricobalt Torpedoes) as part of the spawner's DPS. If you'd like to do it manually, you can "Credit Damage by Source" by right clicking on the combat in question and selecting the option.
two side notes:
1)Assuming a sufficiently long fight. Cannons are superior to beams because:
a) Cannon abilities are far superior, as they affect all cannons/turrets on your ship for 10 seconds while beams only affect 1 beam for 1 attack (Overload) or all beams for 1 volley (Fire at Will). Additionally beams do not have an AoE that's useable as AoE DPS.
b) Base Beam dps only wins out against cannons till ~5KM, at which point Cannons (Dual) start to pull ahead.
2) I would never build any DPS build for single target. The only STF where killing the boss in record time matters is ISE, and that STF is considered to be the easiest to obtain the optional. As such speccing to have the highest time remaining on the optional is just an excercise in theory and your e-peen.
For all other STFs, by the time you get to the boss, you're done with the optional, so DPS builds should be more geared toward the utility of AoE to increase the efficiency of obtaining the optional.
Gah! Your well-reasoned arguments are giving me cold feet! (I was planning on trying out a beam escort build for one of my alts since I already have five running the standard 3DHC-1Torp build.)
Well said ekental, I got a kick out of a guy in an STF bragging about his DPS vs a tac cube after i put APB3, sensor scan, and dropped its shields. But I digress. It is also difficult to measure AoE dps accurately as you will often be dealing damage to targets that will be instantly healed.
Although single target damage is important in STFs because of the number of high HP stationary targets that do need to be burned down. In a best case scenario you have a few specced for each type (single and AoE).
And lastly there is a single place where you can measure you maximum personal DPS. In KA the transformers have about 500k HP, simply take one down yourself and see how long it takes, then simple division tells you what your max potential DPS is. I say potential because most targets will have annoying things like shields, defense ratings, and resistances.
Gah! Your well-reasoned arguments are giving me cold feet! (I was planning on trying out a beam escort build for one of my alts since I already have five running the standard 3DHC-1Torp build.)
There's nothing inherently wrong with a beam-scort. No, you will not do the burst damage in STF's that a cannon build will have, BUT if you're toe-to-toe with another escort in PvP, the extra time-on-target that beams will have compared to cannons may make that crucial difference.
Just ask Lady Fek'lhr how effective they can be. I've been popped many times by that vicious lilac-beamed Garumba.
Oh... and here is a link to Combat Log Parser. I would recommend you all use version 0.1 as 0.2 often has display problems.
Thanks for that!
Mainly wanting to use it to see the differences between running DHC vs DC on my bortusqu. Power levels vs out put dmg. Which combo is more efficient sort of thing.
I finally got this working, so am I to assume that for an tactical escort running 3 dhc 1 torp and 3 turrets in an Elite STF and I'm doing 4k dps it's only average?
Just remember that it's relative to what everyone else has and what they are doing as well.
Also, every second you're not firing at something your DPS is going down. With cannons that means anytime you're not nose to nose with a target you will drop. Compare your DPS to the other escorts in the same match and to your own numbers with different builds. If you can isolate your battle with a tac cube or a gate it may give you a better idea of your sustained DPS.
If you're doing well and you're getting 4-6k over the course of the STF you're probably doing just fine.
On a side note, I understand but abhor the Defiant/DPS craze - it stops people from really learning some neat and fun mechanics of the game. You don't have to do as much DPS when your skills and procs do the work for you.
That makes total sense. I know each raw number is subjective and depends on circumstances. Out of 10 elite stf I have scored over 4.2 million total damage each time about double what the 2nd place guy did in total damage. I assumed either I was doing ok or just everyone else wasn't skilled and I was just the best of the unskilled. Lol. Pretty much what the numbers told me was I was holding my own in those teams. I have seen that escorts can do upward of 6k-7k dps but I guess that also has to do with team setup and how good the other people are also, if the can output more damage cycle aggro you spend more time on Target boosting your dps in turn. Makes sense to me.
Maybe its just me being an idiot, but I am unable to find the combat log parser anywhere online. the original link, through sourceforge, says that the page cannot be found. I would like to know if it even still exists, and if it does, where do download the log parser. Thank you
Maybe its just me being an idiot, but I am unable to find the combat log parser anywhere online. the original link, through sourceforge, says that the page cannot be found. I would like to know if it even still exists, and if it does, where do download the log parser. Thank you
Click back a page, the link is there in the blue line, a post or two from the bottom.
Out of 10 elite stf I have scored over 4.2 million total damage each time about double what the 2nd place guy did in total damage. I assumed either I was doing ok or just everyone else wasn't skilled and I was just the best of the unskilled. Lol.
Something which doesn't seem to have been mentioned, and which is quite important: the combat log is range-limited, as a result you don't see the damage inflicted by players who are too far. To give you an idea, I did a test with a friend: in KA I took care of the probes on one side while he was DPSing on the other: I was missing 30% of his damage done. DPS values, if they are calculared using in-combat time, are not affected much (even if they will not be exact).
BTW the fail-STF elite I have seen where mostly due to execution, the DPS requirements, even for the optionals, are not that steep.
...further propogating the myth that the only thing that matters in STFs is pure DPS output.
So those team support skills that I have as a cruiser captain are things I shouldn't bother using to heal/help team members in an STF, because I'm too concerned about being at the top of the "DPS meter chart".
Cryptic can't bring out new STFS (and change the old ones) fast enough, to make sure that DPS is no longer the only consideration when working "as a team".
Normally I like to see utilities in MMOs like this, but in this case it exacerbates a current problem and how people view each other's contributions based on their class and what they fly. To that end, I do not find it helpful, but rather harmful. Time would better be spent convincing Cryptic that all ships and classes need to contribute equally in their own way, and to change old and/or design new STFs to further that goal.
Seems more like a continuation of the "virtual e-peen contest" that is found in virtually all MMOs.
BTW the fail-STF elite I have seen where mostly due to execution, the DPS requirements, even for the optionals, are not that steep.
The main STF that's failable with poor DPS is KASE, in my experience, thanks to the giant pile of HP sponges; that's the main reason my Sci is in a Defiant-R for STFs (also because I'm too cheap for an MVAE atm) - you don't need to crowd-control what's dead, any escort can carry emergency TB/Rs anyways (and the MVAE has that LtCdr sci), escorts can crossheal each other against just about everything but the doomtorp, and all the GW/TBR in the world won't help munch through the transformers or gates like a good rack of guns with APB and Sensor Scan will.
It may be a bit of an epeen contest, but the space STFs really are about max damage all the time at almost all levels. Until it gets fixed, don't whine about people propagating a truth, whine about the idiots who can't design a good raid.
It could be worse though, I guess - your loot could be based more-or-less entirely on damage out like SB24
(Also for what it's worth, in CSE the first time I'll go "Tac Fleet Tac Init ALL BUFFS NAO" is generally once the first cube goes down; the others get allbuff mode if it looks like we need it, etc. No point waiting for the tac cube to spawn if someone stuffed the nanite gen sync and the crowd control is strained ...)
I think the biggest mistake everyone here made is in thinking that the TDPS shown in combatlogparser is definitive of your DPS in STFs when you are solely logging an STF run. It is only relative DPS, since it is very subjected to the team you have. At best it gives you a comparison in standing among the current team you have.
I say this because STFs have a nearly fixed amount of hit points shared by 5 people, mainly the stationary unshielded high hit points targets and fixed number of cubes. It is very possible to score 13k DPS in a very fast run of CSE with a team of high DPS escorts, and yet a high DPS player may log under 4K DPS when an STF drags out. Saying there's something wrong with a ship's build for having low DPS then, is wrong. That player could have very well score over 1-2 million damage in excess of the next closest player with that 4K DPS but over 15mins instead of an 8min STF run.
As someone who has run Beam Escorts, this Pure DPS mentality is flawed and there are several reasons why (some of which have been mentioned):
1. Fire at Will = You hit lots of targets, even targets you don't need to hit and targets you won't do much damage to, so you will do lots of DPS. This makes your DPS numbers mathematically astronomical because you are just hitting so much stuff constantly, but it doesn't mean you actually KILL your target faster!
This leads into 2...
2. Killing targets quickly isn't just about overall DPS. Example, killing a wave of probes/spheres headed to a gate is NOT faster with a Beam build than with a traditional DHC Scatter/Torp spread build. These targets can be Alpha striked for quick kills, which can take significantly longer to kill with a Beam build using traditional DPS tactics.
And finally, the big secret in STO...
3. Big critical hits do more for your in-game scores than overall DPS can achieve. This is mostly for PVP and Fleet action purposes, and more for the situational battles in STF's, but the big critical hits achieved by Torpedoes or other bigger hitting weapon strikes (Overload for example) can actually do MORE damage than the target even has in terms of hitpoints! This also includes explosions that you might be credited with.
This means that if say you are attacking an entire fleet of Klingons in Station 24 and manage to hit a bunch at once with a heavily buffed Torpedo Spread, you will get large critical hits on targets with very little hit points left along quite quite a few secondary "splash" explosions, giving you "bonus points" that will credit to your points and actually allow you to beat someone using a pure DPS beam approach statistically.
This isn't something that can be measured with a traditional DPS parser, and thus something that won't show up these logs.
As for fast Elite STF runs.... The FASTEST are always the runs with lots of high DPS escorts, but with at least one Power-sucking build Sci ship or Carrier capable of turning a Gate, Tac cube or other target into a squishy target for all that DPS. An all-DPS Escort beam group won't be nearly as quick.
I was playing around with different loadouts on my defiant last night in elite STFs and it appears that 4xDBBs fore and 2xarrays and Quantum launcher at aft result in far quicker kills of all enemies than when I loaded 4xDHC, 3 turrets
It feels arrogant to re-post myself, but I feel like all of these points are still relevant to the discussion at hand.
Additionally, while informative, there's a distinct lack of mechanical explanation on beam abilities and a different mentality on DPS in general that should be mentioned.
So I thought I could add to what is currently available on this page with some specifics.
As someone who has run Beam Escorts, this Pure DPS mentality is flawed and there are several reasons why (some of which have been mentioned):
1. Fire at Will = You hit lots of targets, even targets you don't need to hit and targets you won't do much damage to, so you will do lots of DPS. This makes your DPS numbers mathematically astronomical because you are just hitting so much stuff constantly, but it doesn't mean you actually KILL your target faster!
Fire at Will (FaW) shoots 25% more beam/beam bank for 1 volley (4 beams/volley -> 5 beams/volley). Additionally, you get a minor bonus dmg % to each beam, netting you ~30% -> 40% more DPS for 1 volley.
As noted, FaW shoots random targets, and is more for tagging targets with Attack Pattern Beta than actual AoE.
In comparison Cannon Scatter Volley (CSV) gives a 15% + 5% / rank dmg bonus to all cannons/turrets and makes each one AoE up to 3 targets for 10 seconds. The net result is even the use of this ability on a single target increases your DPS more than FaW.
I see no reason not to count AoE DPS, even one as impotent as FaW as the dmg done is completely relevant to effectiveness and the efficiency of an STF.
The effect that's ultimately important is the sum effect of your team, and shooting wildly with FaW does not detract from that.
The only exception is AoEing a regenerating target. That's empty DPS padding and definitely something to be avoided.
This leads into 2...
2. Killing targets quickly isn't just about overall DPS. Example, killing a wave of probes/spheres headed to a gate is NOT faster with a Beam build than with a traditional DHC Scatter/Torp spread build. These targets can be Alpha striked for quick kills, which can take significantly longer to kill with a Beam build using traditional DPS tactics.
As far as I can see this adds to your overall DPS, has it's own utility, usefulness, and should be taken at face value when compared to a beam boat, which is as noted, less efficient at AoE.
And finally, the big secret in STO...
3. Big critical hits do more for your in-game scores than overall DPS can achieve. This is mostly for PVP and Fleet action purposes, and more for the situational battles in STF's, but the big critical hits achieved by Torpedoes or other bigger hitting weapon strikes (Overload for example) can actually do MORE damage than the target even has in terms of hitpoints! This also includes explosions that you might be credited with.
This means that if say you are attacking an entire fleet of Klingons in Station 24 and manage to hit a bunch at once with a heavily buffed Torpedo Spread, you will get large critical hits on targets with very little hit points left along quite quite a few secondary "splash" explosions, giving you "bonus points" that will credit to your points and actually allow you to beat someone using a pure DPS beam approach statistically.
This isn't something that can be measured with a traditional DPS parser, and thus something that won't show up these logs.
All dmg sources do this. While it is true that torpedoes will do it more dramatically than energy weapons, unless you go into an STF with the specific goal of getting the last hits on groups of targets with a torpedo spread, then this isn't going to be a major source of error.
AoE is an acknowledged weakness of beam boats and no player should explain away damage discrepancies with this argument.
Frankly a pure beam boat is sub-par when it comes to AoE, as it's abilities just don't support such a build. A group of cannon escorts with a torpedo and spread will be both numerically superior and be more efficient at clearing an STF than a comparably equipped beam boat squad.
What's ultimately important in deciding which to go is whether you as a player are comfortable with the tradeoffs of going beams vs cannons.
As for fast Elite STF runs.... The FASTEST are always the runs with lots of high DPS escorts, but with at least one Power-sucking build Sci ship or Carrier capable of turning a Gate, Tac cube or other target into a squishy target for all that DPS. An all-DPS Escort beam group won't be nearly as quick.
This is simply not true. Graphing the Damage Resistance curve shows us that the 5 escorts with 10 Attack Pattern Beta III & IIs between them (APB) and either Fire on my Mark(FoMM) or Sensor Scan (SS) will be faster than 4 escorts + 1 science vessel. DPS is lost when an escort dies. Between 5 escorts there is easily enough healing to keep any member with aggro alive to any boss target.
There are however other tradeoffs besides speed to be concerned about; namely laziness, which is my favorite statistic to maximize.
A science vessel can make things easier for the team and frankly, by the time you get to a boss, you're either done with the optional or it's ISE, an STF where losing the optional is difficult to accomplish.
This is simply not true. Graphing the Damage Resistance curve shows us that the 5 escorts with 10 Attack Pattern Beta III & IIs between them (APB) and either Fire on my Mark(FoMM) or Sensor Scan (SS) will be faster than 4 escorts + 1 science vessel. DPS is lost when an escort dies. Between 5 escorts there is easily enough healing to keep any member with aggro alive to any boss target.
You aren't accounting for the power sucking abilities of well built Sci/Carrier builds.
My fastest Infected Elite run ever had 1 carrier and 4 escorts. Had both transformers dead with more than 10 minutes left on the clock, and the tac cube lasted less than 30 seconds.
They key was the Carriers ability to suck ALL the power from a target, so NPC's like the normal cubes and tac cube (even the Gate) simply lost all their shields and just sat there unable to fire, allowing all the Escorts to hit the targets with their full DPS. The loss of the 5th Escort didn't matter, because even with 5 escorts you still won't be able to burn through the larger targets that quickly, and I've had dozens of all-Escort runs to back that up.
Now I have no idea how to perfect those power-drain builds, but every time I run a STF with someone using one of those setups its apparent how effective they are in improving the speed at which an STF can be completed.
There is definitely nothing better than having a carrier along with power siphon drones. As fun and as damaging as flying a raptor can be, just being able to turn off ships at will blows anything else out of the water.
I normally play my KDF tac in a Kar'fi, torp boat style so I can ignore weapon power (and do pretty ridiculous amounts of damage, anyway). Tanking cubes or gates or really anything is easier than on my Fed Eng. And of course, no one else dies, either, unless they do something catastrophically stupid (like sitting in front of donatra or whatever).
DPS is great, its wonderful, and probably is the most functionally significant attribute we can bring into the mix. But it is not the end-all-be-all of usefulness.
Like Kost said, 5 escorts probably have theoretically higher dps than 4 escorts and cruiser/carrier. However, 5 escorts are either going to be popping one after another, or having to out-range the cube when they get aggro, etc. Having someone along who can soak up the damage, or negate it entirely lets the escorts do what they do best, sit there and pewpew their little hearts out. And that will increase the *effective* dps that the group is capable of doing. Especially with the new and worse death penalties coming in a few days.
Comments
I want to see some screencaps when this challenge gets accepted!
I cant find it anywhere.
Seems like it was made by a member of the "Synergy fleet"
per this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txyovte6vaQ
First, the OP makes some good points, namely:
1) It's impossible to know how well you compare to others without the CombatLogParser or feeding the CombatLog through a spreadsheet.
2)If you are looking for nothing but DPS, then then the equipment you're wearing should reflect that. (Namely OMEGA force)
That being said, DPS calculators actually do not calculate your skill and do not reflect how "good" your build is. The reason for this is the nature of how buffs, debuffs, and boff slots work in STO.
Here's an easy example:
2 Escorts are shooting at something. One uses his commander slot for Attack Pattern Beta 3 (APB3), the other for Cannon Rapid Fire 3 (CRF3).
APB3 debuffs the target's dmg resistance by 50 (max attack pattern). This helps both escorts do dmg.
CRF3 increases your attack speed by 50% (50% more DPS for 10 sec). This only helps the escort with the ability.
The escort with APB3 will do less DPS than the other escort, if however, you were to take the dmg difference they both would have done without APB3 it would be clear that APB3 was as a whole, more useful. Additionally, 2 APB3s would have resulted in an even higher dmg increase between both escorts.
tl;dr You can get a bigger DPS value than your team mates just by being cleverly selfish and taking a self-buff while they take debuffs.
The other thing I want to mention is that damage is relative. That is to say, your total damage will be a result of the # of debuffs that are thrown on your target and the # of buffs you can activate on yourself. A team with 5 APB3s stacking on a target will result in higher DPS for everyone, but on your own you'd never get anywhere near those values.
As such what you want to look at is the % dmg difference between you and everyone else.
i.e. The top DPSer did 20% more dmg than you. Why? And are you OK with that?
I'd also like to point out that while dps is a critical metric for being competitive,players should make their build around a role, rather than around their dps.
As an escort you may decide that you're willing to lose 10% of your DPS to reliably kill a Cube solo. As such you'd drop OMEGA and pick up 3-piece Borg.
Why would you? Because if you don't run with a premade group with a tank then you can't depend on your random team every time. You may decide that the DPS loss if preferable to getting aggro and dying every cube.
If you're a science vessel or cruiser however, what you're probably looking for is only a DPS that is relevant to the fight. A cruiser may .. for example, be soley concerned with getting enough DPS to hold aggro off the escorts, in which case, that is what their DPS goals should be and that should be reflected in their boff ability selection and build.
Finally, looking at everyone post their e-peens on this thread, it's clear that the DPS #s are skewed not only because of group composition and # of debuffs/buffs in each report, but also because people tend to either log DPS for an entire STF or a major fight, like the Tactical Cube.
The DPS for an entire STF is a poor metric to determine how well you're doing because many STFs have gimmicks and roles that will skew the numbers.
As an example, a Kang defender will likely have more DPS than the cube attackers in Cure Space Elite (CSE) because he's free to AoE a steady stream of BoPs.
DPS for a major fight, like the Tactical cube, is better but should also be taken with a grain of salt.
People tend to hit their long cooldown abilities for this fight (especially if they're logging themselves). Tacticals will hit every button, Science will summon their holograms, etc.
If the fight only lasts a significant portion of these buff durations, then the numbers that you'll see from DPS meter is not your sustained DPS. That doesn't mean it's not important, but keep in mind it's not something that you'll achieve against a sufficiently hardy target.
two side notes:
1)Assuming a sufficiently long fight. Cannons are superior to beams because:
a) Cannon abilities are far superior, as they affect all cannons/turrets on your ship for 10 seconds while beams only affect 1 beam for 1 attack (Overload) or all beams for 1 volley (Fire at Will). Additionally beams do not have an AoE that's useable as AoE DPS.
b) Base Beam dps only wins out against cannons till ~5KM, at which point Cannons (Dual) start to pull ahead.
2) I would never build any DPS build for single target. The only STF where killing the boss in record time matters is ISE, and that STF is considered to be the easiest to obtain the optional. As such speccing to have the highest time remaining on the optional is just an excercise in theory and your e-peen.
For all other STFs, by the time you get to the boss, you're done with the optional, so DPS builds should be more geared toward the utility of AoE to increase the efficiency of obtaining the optional.
Oh... and here is a link to Combat Log Parser. I would recommend you all use version 0.1 as 0.2 often has display problems.
The Parser does accurately display mines, photonic fleet, and all spawned source projectiles (Heavy Plasma & Tricobalt Torpedoes) as part of the spawner's DPS. If you'd like to do it manually, you can "Credit Damage by Source" by right clicking on the combat in question and selecting the option.
Are you the author of that application?
I know the original poster for this thread is not.
Gah! Your well-reasoned arguments are giving me cold feet! (I was planning on trying out a beam escort build for one of my alts since I already have five running the standard 3DHC-1Torp build.)
Although single target damage is important in STFs because of the number of high HP stationary targets that do need to be burned down. In a best case scenario you have a few specced for each type (single and AoE).
And lastly there is a single place where you can measure you maximum personal DPS. In KA the transformers have about 500k HP, simply take one down yourself and see how long it takes, then simple division tells you what your max potential DPS is. I say potential because most targets will have annoying things like shields, defense ratings, and resistances.
Thank you for that moment of sanity.
There's nothing inherently wrong with a beam-scort. No, you will not do the burst damage in STF's that a cannon build will have, BUT if you're toe-to-toe with another escort in PvP, the extra time-on-target that beams will have compared to cannons may make that crucial difference.
Just ask Lady Fek'lhr how effective they can be. I've been popped many times by that vicious lilac-beamed Garumba.
Thanks for that!
Mainly wanting to use it to see the differences between running DHC vs DC on my bortusqu. Power levels vs out put dmg. Which combo is more efficient sort of thing.
Also, every second you're not firing at something your DPS is going down. With cannons that means anytime you're not nose to nose with a target you will drop. Compare your DPS to the other escorts in the same match and to your own numbers with different builds. If you can isolate your battle with a tac cube or a gate it may give you a better idea of your sustained DPS.
If you're doing well and you're getting 4-6k over the course of the STF you're probably doing just fine.
On a side note, I understand but abhor the Defiant/DPS craze - it stops people from really learning some neat and fun mechanics of the game. You don't have to do as much DPS when your skills and procs do the work for you.
Click back a page, the link is there in the blue line, a post or two from the bottom.
Something which doesn't seem to have been mentioned, and which is quite important: the combat log is range-limited, as a result you don't see the damage inflicted by players who are too far. To give you an idea, I did a test with a friend: in KA I took care of the probes on one side while he was DPSing on the other: I was missing 30% of his damage done. DPS values, if they are calculared using in-combat time, are not affected much (even if they will not be exact).
BTW the fail-STF elite I have seen where mostly due to execution, the DPS requirements, even for the optionals, are not that steep.
That's pretty much how I see it.
The main STF that's failable with poor DPS is KASE, in my experience, thanks to the giant pile of HP sponges; that's the main reason my Sci is in a Defiant-R for STFs (also because I'm too cheap for an MVAE atm) - you don't need to crowd-control what's dead, any escort can carry emergency TB/Rs anyways (and the MVAE has that LtCdr sci), escorts can crossheal each other against just about everything but the doomtorp, and all the GW/TBR in the world won't help munch through the transformers or gates like a good rack of guns with APB and Sensor Scan will.
It may be a bit of an epeen contest, but the space STFs really are about max damage all the time at almost all levels. Until it gets fixed, don't whine about people propagating a truth, whine about the idiots who can't design a good raid.
It could be worse though, I guess - your loot could be based more-or-less entirely on damage out like SB24
(Also for what it's worth, in CSE the first time I'll go "Tac Fleet Tac Init ALL BUFFS NAO" is generally once the first cube goes down; the others get allbuff mode if it looks like we need it, etc. No point waiting for the tac cube to spawn if someone stuffed the nanite gen sync and the crowd control is strained ...)
I say this because STFs have a nearly fixed amount of hit points shared by 5 people, mainly the stationary unshielded high hit points targets and fixed number of cubes. It is very possible to score 13k DPS in a very fast run of CSE with a team of high DPS escorts, and yet a high DPS player may log under 4K DPS when an STF drags out. Saying there's something wrong with a ship's build for having low DPS then, is wrong. That player could have very well score over 1-2 million damage in excess of the next closest player with that 4K DPS but over 15mins instead of an 8min STF run.
1. Fire at Will = You hit lots of targets, even targets you don't need to hit and targets you won't do much damage to, so you will do lots of DPS. This makes your DPS numbers mathematically astronomical because you are just hitting so much stuff constantly, but it doesn't mean you actually KILL your target faster!
This leads into 2...
2. Killing targets quickly isn't just about overall DPS. Example, killing a wave of probes/spheres headed to a gate is NOT faster with a Beam build than with a traditional DHC Scatter/Torp spread build. These targets can be Alpha striked for quick kills, which can take significantly longer to kill with a Beam build using traditional DPS tactics.
And finally, the big secret in STO...
3. Big critical hits do more for your in-game scores than overall DPS can achieve. This is mostly for PVP and Fleet action purposes, and more for the situational battles in STF's, but the big critical hits achieved by Torpedoes or other bigger hitting weapon strikes (Overload for example) can actually do MORE damage than the target even has in terms of hitpoints! This also includes explosions that you might be credited with.
This means that if say you are attacking an entire fleet of Klingons in Station 24 and manage to hit a bunch at once with a heavily buffed Torpedo Spread, you will get large critical hits on targets with very little hit points left along quite quite a few secondary "splash" explosions, giving you "bonus points" that will credit to your points and actually allow you to beat someone using a pure DPS beam approach statistically.
This isn't something that can be measured with a traditional DPS parser, and thus something that won't show up these logs.
As for fast Elite STF runs.... The FASTEST are always the runs with lots of high DPS escorts, but with at least one Power-sucking build Sci ship or Carrier capable of turning a Gate, Tac cube or other target into a squishy target for all that DPS. An all-DPS Escort beam group won't be nearly as quick.
Thoughts?
You were doing it wrong.
Try moving inside of 3km.
Yes.
under 5 k cannons outclass beams on base DPS.
Additionally, while informative, there's a distinct lack of mechanical explanation on beam abilities and a different mentality on DPS in general that should be mentioned.
So I thought I could add to what is currently available on this page with some specifics.
My fastest Infected Elite run ever had 1 carrier and 4 escorts. Had both transformers dead with more than 10 minutes left on the clock, and the tac cube lasted less than 30 seconds.
They key was the Carriers ability to suck ALL the power from a target, so NPC's like the normal cubes and tac cube (even the Gate) simply lost all their shields and just sat there unable to fire, allowing all the Escorts to hit the targets with their full DPS. The loss of the 5th Escort didn't matter, because even with 5 escorts you still won't be able to burn through the larger targets that quickly, and I've had dozens of all-Escort runs to back that up.
Now I have no idea how to perfect those power-drain builds, but every time I run a STF with someone using one of those setups its apparent how effective they are in improving the speed at which an STF can be completed.
I normally play my KDF tac in a Kar'fi, torp boat style so I can ignore weapon power (and do pretty ridiculous amounts of damage, anyway). Tanking cubes or gates or really anything is easier than on my Fed Eng. And of course, no one else dies, either, unless they do something catastrophically stupid (like sitting in front of donatra or whatever).
DPS is great, its wonderful, and probably is the most functionally significant attribute we can bring into the mix. But it is not the end-all-be-all of usefulness.
Like Kost said, 5 escorts probably have theoretically higher dps than 4 escorts and cruiser/carrier. However, 5 escorts are either going to be popping one after another, or having to out-range the cube when they get aggro, etc. Having someone along who can soak up the damage, or negate it entirely lets the escorts do what they do best, sit there and pewpew their little hearts out. And that will increase the *effective* dps that the group is capable of doing. Especially with the new and worse death penalties coming in a few days.
Thanks,
Quiiliitiila