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Season 7 Dev Blog #8

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  • hatepwehatepwe Member Posts: 252 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Could a project be added that gives XP in each Reputation tree and only requires BOFFs to be assigned/sacrificed?

    That would help with BOFF-bloat and give people a none-mark related project.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • maddog0000doommaddog0000doom Member Posts: 1,017 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    dastahl wrote: »
    That is a valid point and one that I've already talked to the designers about. We may remove the 2x Dilithium for Gold and just give everyone 960 Dilithium.

    It is also worth mentioning, the reason why I'm still on this thread is because all of the feedback in this thread is being shared with the designers and the team. When good points and valid concerns are brought up, I'm taking those concerns to the designers and we're discussing it.

    That is one of the purposes of this thread - to get immediate feedback as we are implementing the system. Nothing is set in stone in an MMO an we can always adjust. None of this is even live yet, but we do ask that you give it a fair shake once ALL of Season 7 is up on Tribble and we have the Test Weekend. Then you can see how all the economies are updated and make a more valid assessment.

    We will then adjust more from there.

    pls for the love of baby jesus dont slash the stf dilthiums or if u aint gunna move on dithiums atleast give ground stfs more dilituhm they take longer to complete and alot of the times end up a nightmare.

    ps

    i like the idea of rewarding the beter players like others have said it will end up only escorts getting the bonus unless u break it into cateogorys like most healing done most dmg take taken and given some thing some way to make it obtainable by each class not just escort tact captins.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • vengefuldjinnvengefuldjinn Member Posts: 1,514 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    dastahl wrote: »
    the gist of it is that Dilithium is designed to benefit players who have time to play but don't have that much money. The amount of Dilithium needed across the game is determined by the player's desire for rewards and no one ever has to spend any money on Dilithium - period. Everyone can refine Dilithium every day.

    By putting in both more ways to earn and more ways to spend Dilithium, it greatly benefits the players who have lots of time to spend in the game by making Dilithium valuable. When Dilithium has value, it allows players who spend the time to play and refine it the ability to sell it to players who would rather not spend the time to do it. Dilithium trade is a convenience transaction between players. One player is giving their Zen to another in exchange for Dilithium. No one ever needs to do this. You can level up the Fleet Holdings and Reputation Systems simply by playing the game and refining your Dilithium.

    If you are spending money on Dilithium, it is because it is a convenience for you. You are trading the time you could have spent to earn it for some Zen. Cryptic benefits from this because as a Free to Play game, it allows players who don't have money - our free players - the ability to gain some Zen by trading the time they spent playing to someone who didn't want to take the time.

    AHHH, But see, with the launch of last season being all about fleet Starbases the sinks for dilithium has gone through the roof. I can't imagine ANY player now who can just grind dilithium for just themselves for gear, or ships anymore. The starbase monster require just too much of a dilithium contribution.

    And just because dilithium contribution may not be highlighted on the project contribution section doesn't mean that it isn't still heavily in the equation either...

    In the past we've been able to run the free general recruitment assignment for doffs to feed towards starbase projects, now suspiciously, that hole has been closed and viola, all doffs will now cost dilithium now too.
    And I'll bet dollars to donuts that upcoming assignment requirements for more doff contributions will escalate, for these fleet starbase, or embassy projects.

    You have to admit, that from the PLAYER perspective it MOST certainly feels as though the dilithium screws are being turned TIGHTLY and that zen purchases to keep up with all the current AND RAPIDLY growing dilithium requirements for ANYTHING, will undoubtedly become more and more attractive for the casual player who can only play for a few hours a week. How can they keep up ?
    Especially now everyone is a part of a fleet being expected to help contribute, AND God forbid enjoy some of the rewards for said contribution.

    I'm sorry, but honest feedback, NOT insulting ANYONE, this feels like double fleecing the player. You need to grind dilithium to be eligible to earn rewards, that require yet MORE DILITHIUM to get them, OR FLEET MODULES, OR DOFF PACKS...........!

    And about these rewards, will these new sets have epic new visuals and effects? Will they make your ship or character look fantastic and really cool? OR will these new sets look exactly like the old ones, using previous ingame visuals, or have no cool new visual representation at all?

    You see, one of my biggest complaints about these dilithium sinks have been that the rewards look lackluster at best. Piles of tribbles, a few security guards, a table and a few chairs.... I could go on, but why is that point so hard to understand? If you want dilithium sinks, PLEASE spend some time making those sinks WORTH the COST AND EFFORT. If that means someone has to design something new and really cool, then someone should spend the time in development making it worth the time and COST.
    dastahl wrote: »
    So all this talk of "increasing profits because we are in trouble" is absolutely not true. Profits are just fine without Dilithium because of Subscribers, Lifetimers, and players who purchase items in the Store.

    Dan, I'm a loyal, damned good customer, (look up my purchase history I MEAN IT TOO), who works hard and plays hard. I also make a damned decent wage, but I will be honest with you here, you keep walling me off from content unless I spend more and more and you will quickly exceed my ability to enjoy this game. Which will be a damned shame!

    You fellas over there at Cryptic need to chew over that at the next meeting.

    Oh and BTW, I've managed to set aside a few dollars for the Vesta, which I've been anticipating greatly, please make it worth the wait and the money.
    tumblr_o2aau3b7nh1rkvl19o1_400.gif








  • toivatoiva Member Posts: 3,276 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Well, DStahl, lets put the numbers you revealed together:

    The intended Elite STF:

    480 Dil + 60 Omega marks + some Borg Neural Processors

    AFTER we get to Tier 5, a repeatable "project" is unlocked, transforming our 50 Omega marks to 500 Dil.

    Therefore, AFTER we get to Tier 5, we'll be able to get 480+600=1080 Dil from one elite + the Neural Proc that will be (in higher numbers) required for Mk XII loot.

    Current Elite STF:

    1100 Dil + 2 EDCs + Many different possible Rare and or Salvage, Techs and random loot.

    10 EDCs can be converted to about 1000 Dil, so we get at least 1100+200=1300 Dil from one elite.
    With quite a high chance to get at least 1 piece of something else. And let me remind you that Rare or Proto Salvage and Techs are convertible to 1000 and 2300 Dil respectively. Even if you get only one in every 5 runs, it will greatly increase the average amount of dil you get from each one Elite STF.



    Now let's consider the case where you don't need primarily dilithium, but elite borg loot.

    The intended Elite STF:

    You still get 480 Dil, but Omega marks along with the Neural Processors are required for the purchase of the weapont. Also, you'll have to pay quite a sum of Dil on top of that. For now, no idea how many ressources are actually needed (so no idea how many STFs you'll need to run).

    X (elites you need to run)*480-Y (Dil price for the gear item) is all the dilithium you get in the end with your desired weapon (very likely a negative number).

    Current Elite STF:

    You still keep the 1300 Dil and on top of that, after say 10 elites, you have a nice chance of getting at least 1 proto salvage . Voila, you get your weapon. Notice also, that in the 10 elites, you most likely collected other salvage and or techs as well as a lovely byproduct.

    X (elites you run to get the proto salvage)*1300+Y (quite possibly many thousands you get from additional loot you got as byproduct) is the dilithium you end up with along with your desired weapon (never a negative number, apparently always higher or equal to 1300 Dil).




    So please, Mr Stahl, enlighten me on how the change can benefit STF players:

    1) If looking for dilithium, currently we get more.

    2) If looking for elite loot, while we currently have no 100% certainty of getting it, we have certainty of accumulating dilithium (a fairly useful ressource, I find, don't you think?).
    In the planned scenario, while we have the certainty of getting the elite loot, we have no certainty of not loosing dilithium in the process. Also, there is no chance to get any other loot while we aim for the one piece we choose. In contrast to that, currently you still end up with the fixed Dilithium rewards and can get salvage, techs for other loot as well (that you can always convert to dil, if needed).


    I understand it is important for many players to have the certainty of getting the loot they want, but is THIS PARTICULAR WAY any improvement?

    Looking forward to your reply. (Also bear in mind I didn't include the costs-also time costs-of actually upgrading the reputation tiers, another hindrance of the new system.)

    I hope I made enough sense, it's half past 5 here now (in the morning) and have now to sleep...
    TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class.
    Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
    Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.

    Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
  • opiewan100opiewan100 Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    There are a lot of things to like and to consider good changes.

    * The change of the BOff icon to reflect what rarity an officer is is great this now means you dont have to add notes in the character area.

    *The visual changes to the PvE/PvP menu are great. (I am not sure if its a miss or just tribble related, You cant join a quee by double click I hope that thats not gone)

    *Adding a reputation system is actually a great idea and looks like it works well.


    There are some drawbacks at the same time as the improvements.

    *The rewards being so predictable makes it very boring now it really is a grind now no chance of ever calling it anything else.

    *Adding currency to the system is problematic. There is going to be a lot of vetran resistance to it especially the lockbox of previous currency.

    *using the same materials as used in starbase projects is going to hurt young or small fleets disproportionally. It may even slow new fleet creation.

    *The changes in Dil availability and increased costs in Dil as well as not changing the max refinement rate comes off as Currency manipulation and we all know what that makes you look like.
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    dastahl wrote: »
    The designers had a desire to see more people playing the Fleet Actions by making Fleet Actions the best source of Dilithium. Keep in mind that STFs will reward Dilithium AND Omega Marks - and Omega Marks can then be converted to more Dilithium after you've hit max level in Omega, so it may seem just be a short sighted argument.

    I appreciate the work.

    If you ever get another 20 employees, consider having a few designers who focus on transitions.

    I think the new system looks good and is clearly the result of hard work but the transition is rough.

    A lot of games will have not just a switch from patch 2.1 to 2.2 but will have a 2.11 patch that steadies the changes and looks at things like marginal value and changes to value.

    I think players often get caught up looking at old grudges that there will never be any kind of reparation for but it's a trap for designers, too, to get caught up looking at how systems should have been. In doing so, a disconnect can result from looking at where players ARE less than where they SHOULD BE.

    I see it as being a lot like the flap Jack had with Enhancement Diversification in CoH. The change was sound and the new system was a better design but the decision lagged behind emergent gameplay trends... and I think that's fundamentally the same issue with SWG and its NGE patch and a lot of the patches in STO.

    The changes are often a better design but they clash with how people are actually playing.

    Then again, the opposite strategy is perilous as well. I look back at Decipher's Trek CCG. Their approach was never to nerf any card or make it Tournament banned, in sharp contrast to your old bosses at Magic The Gathering. And this did cause TCG to balloon out in complexity because nothing was ever nerfed but instead new counters were created. There were maybe fifteen rules revisions or clarifications in the whole game but a 20 page rules book became a full length manual because their approach was never to invalidate how people played. Which meant constantly creating counters and new card types that behaved differently.

    However, even then, I'd say the complexity may have limited their appeal but what killed Trek CCG for a lot of people was when they launched a second edition. It too was probably how the game always should have worked but an existing mess was better than a new game that was sleek for many players.

    The complexity of Star Trek CCG (or TCG as second edition called it) made it a badly designed card game but it was a vibrant and immersive Star Trek RPG of sorts. Sometimes, bad design trumps good design with unintended benefits.

    Just my $.02 on the matter.
  • hatepwehatepwe Member Posts: 252 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Can I suggest a sweet conversion rate for Dilithium in the conversion process since it sounds like most people will end up cashing out if they already haven't?

    Kinda reward the faithful folks who hold out.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • djnooobdjnooob Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    And to add to my previous post

    The fact that you are locking out and forcing those who've already done the grind, to go and grind AGAIN just to get access to items they already have access to is straight up BS.

    The fact that this grind will take months to complete is BS. Those who have already done the grind should not have to wait to access items they already have access to.

    Converting items and then locking them away is BS. You should be able to use those items immediately.

    You say you are adding more ways to earn dil, ie fleet events, doesn't mean a damn thing really since we are still handicapped by the dil refinement cap. Let's makes this clear.... If you are adding more things that need REFINED DIL then you should have more ways to acquire REFINED DIL

    The fact that you now won't have to run STF's to unlock the stf gear will essentially kill ground stf's.

    I feel like I could go on and on about this but I think most of the valid points have already been brought up in this thread. I more than anything wanted to simply add my voice to this and say in general....your new system sucks.

    PW take notice..... your blog post isn't even 24hrs old and this thread is already 70+ pages. People are not happy. Balls in your court.
  • khayuungkhayuung Member Posts: 1,876 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Remove the competition thing entirely. Instead, reward them as personal bonuses, like:

    1) Punch it! - Doing more than 1000dps in the game. +48 dil
    2) Medic - 1000 heals per sec. +48 dil
    3) Hard mode - Win optional. + TRIBBLE dil + TRIBBLE marks

    And many many more. It inspires a player to do something, and you are directly rewarding team play if the dil awards are made in that direction.


    "Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.

    Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!

    Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
  • jtmarshjtmarsh Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    you say it will take X amount of time for Y if you play Z times a week. OK I understand that but what if your a grinder that runs 5x faster. Will you get Y faster
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,819 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    dastahl wrote: »
    Ok, just checked with the designers and here is what they've done for Season 7

    - Normal STFs now reward 240 Dilithium + Omega Marks
    - Elite STFs now reward 480 Dilithium + Omega Marks + Borg Commodity for MKXII Sets
    - Fleet Actions now reward 960 Dilithium (1st place Gold gets 2x this = 1920 Dilithium)

    In Season 7, Fleet Actions will now become the best source of Dilithium between the two types of Events.

    In addition Fleet Actions will now have better rewards in general
    Gold = Purple + 1920 Dilithium
    Silver = Purple + 960 Dilithium
    Bronze = Blue + 960 Dilithium
    All others = Green + 960 Dilithium

    In addition, at max level in the Omega Fleet a repetable project unlocks that converts Omega Marks to Dilithium at a rate of 50 marks to 500 dilithium or thereabouts.

    The new Red Alert daily in the New Romulus Sector also rewards 480 Dilithium in addition to Rom marks.

    All of this could change before Season 7 hits, but that is what the current plan is.

    here's the thing about STO's Dilithium implementation that's bothered since you introduced it in Season 5:

    - You keep calling it a 'time currency' because you earn it by playing STO game content

    YET - one of the MAIN sources of STO content (which does indeed take time) rewards ZERO Dilithium; and that's all the main storyline missions in the game. Further, it seems that with this new reputation system, you're making it even LESS attrictive for players to spend any time doing these story missions; and effectively re-enforcing the fact that you want them to play the Fleet missions and other 'grind' content as Dilithium and Reoytation or Fleet Marks are now the main rewards players will seek out.

    Hell, even the Doff system rewards Dilithium for a few minutes of mouse- clicking.

    My honest question: Why are you intent on enticing players AWAY from your main STO storyline missions since the F2P conversion?
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
    TOS_Connie_Sig_final9550Pop.jpg
    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • opiewan100opiewan100 Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    So one thing which stood out for me in one of many posts by dastahl 'The designers had a desire to see more people playing the Fleet Actions by making Fleet Actions the best source of Dilithium'.

    You really have to stop looking at you designers as the customers. If the player base isnt playing the Fleet Actions the answer is not looking for a way to force the customer to do it, the answer is to understand why they dont use the product and then make a change to the product which will entice the customer.

    The old addage of 'You can lead a horse to water' it is a failing method to force a customer into a choice they do not like.

    I get that the dev went to a lot of effort to designe the Fleet Actions but it should be clear that it isnt popular. So what do you do? You tell your Dev team that they did a great job made an awsome product that just didnt fly. What do we do now? Figure out what will get them lined up to play, not whipping them into line.
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    dastahl wrote: »
    This is so far from the truth that it actually made me laugh. While any business could always use more profit, it has little to nothing to do with Season 7 STF changes.

    The Dilithium exchange counts for such a small part of our business that adding more to this does not have any significant change on our bottom line when compared to other promotions such as the Lifetime sale or 15% Zen Sales.

    While I went into an explaination of our view on Dilithium earlier in the thread, the gist of it is that Dilithium is designed to benefit players who have time to play but don't have that much money. The amount of Dilithium needed across the game is determined by the player's desire for rewards and no one ever has to spend any money on Dilithium - period. Everyone can refine Dilithium every day.

    By putting in both more ways to earn and more ways to spend Dilithium, it greatly benefits the players who have lots of time to spend in the game by making Dilithium valuable. When Dilithium has value, it allows players who spend the time to play and refine it the ability to sell it to players who would rather not spend the time to do it. Dilithium trade is a convenience transaction between players. One player is giving their Zen to another in exchange for Dilithium. No one ever needs to do this. You can level up the Fleet Holdings and Reputation Systems simply by playing the game and refining your Dilithium.

    If you are spending money on Dilithium, it is because it is a convenience for you. You are trading the time you could have spent to earn it for some Zen. Cryptic benefits from this because as a Free to Play game, it allows players who don't have money - our free players - the ability to gain some Zen by trading the time they spent playing to someone who didn't want to take the time.

    So all this talk of "increasing profits because we are in trouble" is absolutely not true. Profits are just fine without Dilithium because of Subscribers, Lifetimers, and players who purchase items in the Store.

    If you want to see more detailed information on this, I may be giving a talk about how Dilithium helps to fight "pay to win" F2P games at GDC in 2013 by offering players the chance to trade their time to another player in order to get all the goodies in the Store.

    And as mentioned above, all of this is the announcement. We still have several weeks on Tribble before this goes live and we are gathering feedback and will adjust as we feel necessary.

    I appreciate the communication!

    Let me just say, I think dilithium is still the best measure of how much people value time in the game. It's an economic indicator of value.

    The happier people are, the lower the rate at which dilithium will turn into ZEN at a high volume of transactions.

    If there's only one offer and it's 500 dil per ZEN, it means people do not value time very highly.

    If there are 50,000 fast moving exchanges of 25 dil per ZEN at any moment, it means people value time highly.

    My concern is that the diagnostic value becomes muddied with too much centrally planned market manipulation, regardless of the size of the market.

    It tells you how happy people are and measures economic social surplus. It's a better tool than forums, which will tend to attract complaints, or in-game polls or surveys, which may be ignored or prove costly. The exchange can be the ultimate feedback tool but it needs a steady baseline first.
  • cakeofcheesecakeofcheese Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    This gif sums up the dev's reasoning:

    bscYP.gif

    Hurf durf

    MSw0s.gif
  • khayuungkhayuung Member Posts: 1,876 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    My honest question: Why are you intent on enticing players AWAY from your main STO storyline missions since the F2P conversion?

    I second this notion. I think the story missions should at least offer some dil if played on normal, much more on elite. There's already an internal cooldown for replays, so you're not hurting the dil exchange by including them. It would allow new players get the dil they need to start doffing.


    "Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.

    Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!

    Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
  • zenzenarimasenzenzenarimasen Member Posts: 181 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I'm responding to http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?p=726221
    players have been facing off against the Borg for many months in order to obtain gear such as the Mark XII Very Rare MACO, Omega Force and Honor Guard sets.

    It took me about a week of perseverance to get a full set of Mk XII MACO gear for the ground while merely pugging it. At no point did I run the with a team put together specifically to get the loot. Pugs were frustrating, but sufficient. When I actually look at how many times my pugs managed to actually complete the missions... It took 3 successful runs of Infected, 5 successful runs of Khitomer, and 3 successful runs of Cure.

    The only thing I find truly frustrating is getting Infected Ground Elite optional. Every time I've been in a group that's managed to do everything right, with nobody crossing the lines, everything going extremely fast, it fails for no freaking reason. The failure occurs despite there being both time on the clock and nobody crossing the lines. I've got the optional for the other two completed already.

    That said, I do approve of the new system. It looks like it's a lot more fair and considerably better than the current system.
    __________________________________________________

    ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → Ⓑ Ⓐ
  • opiewan100opiewan100 Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I appreciate the communication!

    Let me just say, I think dilithium is still the best measure of how much people value time in the game. It's an economic indicator of value.

    The happier people are, the lower the rate at which dilithium will turn into ZEN at a high volume of transactions.

    If there's only one offer and it's 500 dil per ZEN, it means people do not value time very highly.

    If there are 50,000 fast moving exchanges of 25 dil per ZEN at any moment, it means people value time highly.

    My concern is that the diagnostic value becomes muddied with too much centrally planned market manipulation, regardless of the size of the market.

    It tells you how happy people are and measures economic social surplus. It's a better tool than forums, which will tend to attract complaints, or in-game polls or surveys, which may be ignored or prove costly. The exchange can be the ultimate feedback tool but it needs a steady baseline first.

    I think the biggest concern that Cryptic and other groups like this should begin to have is the Secret Service looking into wether at this point they are counterfitting. This sounds very like a real currency developing outside the bounds of US law. "You can now work from home for ZEN" How long before we see external grinders trading ingame for ZEN or in game equivilent transfers?
  • kurtzroykurtzroy Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    verlaine11 wrote: »
    Wile E. Coyote had better plans while trying to catch Roadrunner

    I got a good laugh out of this.

    So far season 7 seems like a total train wreck.

    I was really looking forward to the reputation system, but after testing it on tribble and seeing post on this forum. Its pretty much dead on arrival to me. No new gear sets (rehashed TRIBBLE doesn't count), some new uninteresting borg weapons,so much grinding its borderline unpaid labor. Then you slash STF dil rewards? I understand this system does have its positive side, but its negatives far FAR outweigh any benefit this systems provides.

    Season 7 kinda makes me feel sorry for those who payed for a Lifetime sub.
  • khayuungkhayuung Member Posts: 1,876 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Some fears are legit, but some are getting out of hand.

    I'll worry about counterfeiting the day I can buy RL cup noodles with zen instead of pixels I order out of a replicator.


    "Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.

    Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!

    Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
  • trek21trek21 Member Posts: 2,240 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    mewi wrote: »

    Alright let us go into this,

    Over-bias? I am a player, that has played this game for years, of course I am bias to changes made to it, is that really in dispute? or maybe you mean I am bias to my own opinions? really? lol

    Here is Baseless Speculation: You are bias, in that every post you make, is in defense of Cryptic. One would suspect you are working for them, and are just signing on an alt account to muddy the waters in an attempt to disregard players concerns for the sake of your own job. There is no base to this speculation, but I can make it nonetheless.

    "My own brand of logic, nitpicking what he says?"

    In other words, what he says is just an opinion, and not a factual statement, and I must take the whole thing as positive, and not be allowed to take it apart to point out the huge problems within it? and my reaction to his opinion is just an overreaction? and not a response to his statement?

    Past behavior? Here is speculation with a base, If you mean the previous company he worked for, with a nearly identical business model, yeah, I think the past is relevant here. Another dev who quit, made a similar comment regarding the company he worked for, and do you think it was just magical coincidence? or the dev secretly pointing the finger at Stahl?

    Furthermore, reminding him of the company he worked for, reminds him of how it has utterly crashed into the ground and not to repeat the same mistakes. Afterall, if we do not learn from our past, we will never learn.

    My logic is sound, your posts are always the same theme, defend Cryptic, no matter what. I have defended Cryptic in the past, but not lately, so my posts may appear to always be negative, but one must have something positive to look forward too, other than grind, being gouged and lied too.
    Okay seriously, that's getting old :rolleyes: I don't work for Cryptic. I live in Grand Rapids, MI. How could I work for a company based in California when I'm halfway across the US?

    And I've been burned by Cryptic (mainly with the emblem conversion). I was mad, yes, but I got over it and I didn't (and don't) hold it against them, nor any other changes. A lot of the issues people get mad at on these forums (reasonable and unreasonable), I either dont' see as issues at all, or don't see as that big a deal (which includes grinds, which are purely 'meh' for me).

    This, and more, is in addition to the fact that I HATE when something I like (Cryptic) is attacked or hated on. Yes that makes it odd that I stick around in an MMO forum, but I have my reasons.

    I get you and others have your reasons. But your choice of words (and knee-jerk reactions) near-always imply it's the end of the world in some way... something I really hate also.

    --

    And with that personal thing over with, he is a Cryptic dev, but what he says is NOT set in stone, contray. It's his way of explaining things, his hopes of what to get in-game later, and so on and so forth... but you guys seem to have an annoying habit of holding it and everything else against him when it doesn't happen, which there was a chance of it not happening anyway.

    Where's the logic in that?

    I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not against you telling him the problems. I just wish you'd say it in constructive ways, not implied-threats of 'you'd better change this or you're doomed', even if it is true. Threats don't help your cause.

    There's my shot, aimed at what I understood about your post.
    Was named Trek17.

    Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
  • djnooobdjnooob Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    dastahl wrote: »
    Ok, just checked with the designers and here is what they've done for Season 7

    - Normal STFs now reward 240 Dilithium + Omega Marks
    - Elite STFs now reward 480 Dilithium + Omega Marks + Borg Commodity for MKXII Sets
    - Fleet Actions now reward 960 Dilithium (1st place Gold gets 2x this = 1920 Dilithium)

    In Season 7, Fleet Actions will now become the best source of Dilithium between the two types of Events.

    In addition Fleet Actions will now have better rewards in general
    Gold = Purple + 1920 Dilithium
    Silver = Purple + 960 Dilithium
    Bronze = Blue + 960 Dilithium
    All others = Green + 960 Dilithium

    In addition, at max level in the Omega Fleet a repetable project unlocks that converts Omega Marks to Dilithium at a rate of 50 marks to 500 dilithium or thereabouts.

    The new Red Alert daily in the New Romulus Sector also rewards 480 Dilithium in addition to Rom marks.

    All of this could change before Season 7 hits, but that is what the current plan is.


    wow so you're cutting the dil amount awarded in STF's to half and adding a dil reward to fleet events that is greater than what is awarded in STF's. And you've added a reward bonus to fleet actions that is not available in STF's. And you no longer have to run stf's to get stf gear.


    Do you realize that this will kill STF's?
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    dastahl wrote: »
    Ok, just checked with the designers and here is what they've done for Season 7

    - Normal STFs now reward 240 Dilithium + Omega Marks
    - Elite STFs now reward 480 Dilithium + Omega Marks + Borg Commodity for MKXII Sets
    - Fleet Actions now reward 960 Dilithium (1st place Gold gets 2x this = 1920 Dilithium)

    In Season 7, Fleet Actions will now become the best source of Dilithium between the two types of Events.

    In addition Fleet Actions will now have better rewards in general
    Gold = Purple + 1920 Dilithium
    Silver = Purple + 960 Dilithium
    Bronze = Blue + 960 Dilithium
    All others = Green + 960 Dilithium

    In addition, at max level in the Omega Fleet a repetable project unlocks that converts Omega Marks to Dilithium at a rate of 50 marks to 500 dilithium or thereabouts.

    The new Red Alert daily in the New Romulus Sector also rewards 480 Dilithium in addition to Rom marks.

    All of this could change before Season 7 hits, but that is what the current plan is.

    I'm working backwards through posts obviously but a concern I have overall is that dilithium acquisition frequently doesn't reward social behavior (tanking, resurrecting teammates, completing a run with players who had difficulty) and worse, doesn't reward asocial behavior (mission replay), but does heavily reward antisocial behavior.

    I'll give an example. Bear with me because I'm getting to how this impacts dilithium.

    I picked up the Lobi stasis pistol. I'm not a PvPer so I found it mostly disappointing. Hand phasers are suboptimal for almost all ground content outside of PvP. This weapon began as an annoying PvP tool with no counter until it was fixed. I griped that the more canon approach would probably treat it as a sniper rifle that looks like a hand phaser with an SDisrupt proc, which would be very novel but neither imbalanced nor annoying.

    Right now, the best use I can find for it, playing at the margins, is during the Academy events. I can use it to stun any Klingons I spawn and then hog a second anomaly from other players while my Klingon is stunned. I can also use it stasis lock other players' Klingons to slow them down while I cover more ground and hog more anomalies.

    I did this because I knew other people did it and because I wanted to test rewards.

    Doing this, I've been able to get 5664 dilithium ore in an hour without any repair costs, without any teaming. I think just over 6k is possible. It requires substantially less skill, effort, expense, travel, thought, and risk than other methods of dilithium acquisition. It's also accomplished by being... aggressively inconsiderate, shall we say. It reduces the total dilithium awarded by slowing others down. If everyone did it, it would dramatically reduce the viability of the Academy event. It's like someone took John Nash's game theory and turned it on its head to make players into ruthless robber barons devoid of any altruism.

    In short, it's a lot like playing a certain other space MMO.

    This is where a big part of my consideration is, where dilithium acquisition methods go.
  • commodoreshrvkcommodoreshrvk Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    dastahl wrote: »
    We do consider Dilithium to be a time-currency. Here is why we think that....snip...

    No matter how you cut it, Dilithium IS NOT a time based currency. The reason for this is, there are many things you can spend your TIME on in game, content-wise, and not earn one lick of dilithium. If dilithium was truly a TIME base currency, you would have to A) award a set amount of dilithium for all content in game or B) passively reward dilithium in ticks while in game. Unfortunately B leads to people just standing around letting the dilithium amount tick away. That leaves A as the only option that would make dilithium a TIME based currency.

    Because of what I just said above, Dilithium fundamentally a REWARD currency. Go check out PlanetSide2 and see how SOE has actually handled a TIME based currency (Certifications) appropriately.
  • vengefuldjinnvengefuldjinn Member Posts: 1,514 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    dastahl wrote: »
    but it serves the awesome purpose of allowing players with lots of time and no money the ability to get some money to buy ships and such.

    Okay, so what about the casual player who doesn't have lots of EITHER, time or money ?

    Just how in the hell do THOSE players enjoy the game?

    This game is going a tad too hardcore, in either direction if you ask me.

    This much monetary or time contribution should not be necessary to play a game rated for teens.

    Rich adults, or unemployed hardcore players are all that's gonna be left in this game if things keep going down this path.
    And to be honest, I don't think either group would team well together, kinda anti mmo if you ask me.
    tumblr_o2aau3b7nh1rkvl19o1_400.gif








  • haglahayhaglahay Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    My main has completed the requirements for the Medal of Honor (300 STFs total - 100 of each type) and have yet to get the Mk XII ground weapon tech. I'm not a fan of the Cure ground STF, and at this point I've pretty much given up on it. The random number generator is just a poor way to go about doing business on items to complete sets and get accolades. Items should be at least tradeable in some fashion (turn in one prototype tech and 25 EDCs to convert to another type or something similar), or a streak breaker should be implemented.

    Grinding is not fun. Period. One would think Cryptic would have learned lessons from their CoH days (notably: bases, loot drops, and PvP), but alas I have yet to see evidence of it.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    dastahl wrote: »
    I am right. Dodds is finishing up the Space portion of the STF secretely and we haven't told Brandon yet :)

    But Brandon is right in that "Into the Hive" refers to the ground portion of the STF. The space portion will probably have its own name.

    It is a face off against the Borg Queen diamond as well as some other challenges at one of the unimatrix complexes. It is pretty awesome.

    most people didn't notice this it looks like, very cool! poor brandon, not even he is a true insider on classified things :D why do i have a feeling theres going to be a new set as well...
  • mewimewi Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    trek21 wrote: »
    Okay seriously, that's getting old :rolleyes: I don't work for Cryptic. I live in Grand Rapids, MI. How could I work for a company based in California when I'm halfway across the US?

    And I've been burned by Cryptic (mainly with the emblem conversion). I was mad, yes, but I got over it and I didn't (and don't) hold it against them, nor any other changes. A lot of the issues people get mad at on these forums (reasonable and unreasonable), I either dont' see as issues at all, or don't see as that big a deal (which includes grinds, which are purely 'meh' for me).

    This, and more, is in addition to the fact that I HATE when something I like (Cryptic) is attacked or hated on. Yes that makes it odd that I stick around in an MMO forum, but I have my reasons.

    I get you and others have your reasons. But your choice of words (and knee-jerk reactions) near-always imply it's the end of the world in some way... something I really hate also.

    --

    And with that personal thing over with, he is a Cryptic dev, but what he says is NOT set in stone, contray. It's his way of explaining things, his hopes of what to get in-game later, and so on and so forth... but you guys seem to have an annoying habit of holding it and everything else against him when it doesn't happen, which there was a chance of it not happening anyway.

    Where's the logic in that?

    I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not against you telling him the problems. I just wish you'd say it in constructive ways, not implied-threats of 'you'd better change this or you're doomed', even if it is true. Threats don't help your cause.

    There's my shot, aimed at what I understood about your post.

    End of the world? Not in the least, simply because you got that impression does not make it so. I don't exaggerate, or have time to make everything sound like a subtle change for the sake of other peoples vanity.

    Why do so many think all constructive criticism has to have a positive twist on it? If I felt the need to kiss someones ... etc, I would. But I don't do that, I tell them how it is, I tell you how it is, regardless of the emotional impact my words may have. Call it heartless, or what you will, I call it straight to the point. I don't have time for meaningless social dogma where one must play with words just to get a point through "politely." CNN would have you believe every lie or truth is just an "opinion" to avoid offending anyone and that is where the problem begins.

    As for threats? What threats have I made? I have not made any threats. If you mean my declaration of quitting? It isn't a threat, it is a definitive possibility, and if longterm players quitting doesn't concern Cryptic, then they don't belong in this business.

    Also, here is another problem between you and I, you care more about the machine, I care more about the content the machine produces.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    | Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
  • phoenixtrillphoenixtrill Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    djnooob wrote: »
    Do you realize that this will kill STF's?

    Yes. Now you're beginning to understand. They want to kill STFs.
  • trek21trek21 Member Posts: 2,240 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    mewi wrote: »
    and if longterm players quitting doesn't concern Cryptic, then they don't belong in this business.
    That's EXACTLY what I meant right there...

    I respect your 'straight to the point' aspect, but saying it with wording that could be taken as implied threats (such as 'Cryptic doesn't belong in the business') doesn't help your case with Cryptic.

    It can even make them ignore you completely, if you have little-to-no feedback (and by that, I mean feedback as they define it).
    Was named Trek17.

    Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
  • khayuungkhayuung Member Posts: 1,876 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    They enjoy the game... by enjoying the game.

    Which unfortunately seems to be all about grinding. :/

    Except the Foundry, but it sucks that we only get to play 3 a day before there's no reward.


    "Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.

    Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!

    Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
This discussion has been closed.