( Notice: I don't know how I posted the same thread twice at different times, but I don't know )
Call it what you will, "insulting," "offensive," or whatever, an emotional response is not required. Do you deny my speculation, or facts presented have been faulty in anyway?
Yes, I call them faulty. Why? Because those issues aren't really as big as issues as you're claiming.
From your words I'm not quoting, it is my opinion you're simply using your own brand of logic and nitpicking at everything he says, with an over-bias from past behavior coloring what you're reading.
Thus saying your own logic is flawed, and a bit hypocritical with what you're saying.
In my opinion.
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Mr Stahl already responded to me on 1 of these issues: He agrees that the 1st/2nd/3rd place reward system would probably not be a good team building idea and that a flat 960 dilth would be awarded to everyone.
As I said this is the most sensible thing to do - this whole MMO - the whole idea of STO - the whole idea of group missions is to support each other to get things done. Many many mission would collapse in failure if everyone was just out to be the winner. The amount of hate and annomosity that would start to be generated towards other players could cripple STO permantly. Franckly it would be a disaster, and I don't want to see the game I love crumble over players fighting for 1st place in everything.
I agree 100% - fleet missions and STF's are hard enough outside of pre-made groups, I can't even begin to imagine how horrible they would become with everyone fighting for 1st place. STO would lose any sense of acting as a team that it had and the long-term damage could be devastating.
AWESOME! Just wanted to throw my 2 strips of Latinum into this discussion as well.
First of all I LOVE the new reputation system, I think it's a great way to add new end game content and rewards into the game. I love how you get new abilities as well as opening up new rewards along the way.
However I have the same concerns about the reward crate that' we'll be getting when we reach lvl V. I can understand why you're holding it off until then, so we don't blow what we've been saving for gear to unlock the new rewards instead. But I share others concern that it feels like you're taking something away from us.
It's like when I was a kid and ready to go play, but my mom said "you have to clean your room first" I feel a lot of people see the work as a chore before the reward. Which is kind of sad, if playing a game feels like a chore it's not a good thing.
So maybe you could consider at least not holding the EDC's since that's something we can already spend, and if we've gotten borg salvage we can spend it now, and the regular or prototype borg tech is worth the most obviously so we might want to save that for later. But in the end I think you should give the player the option if they want to use it as soon as the conversion is made or hold on to it to use for gear later, and not have to wait till Tier V to use it
Also I'm concerned that you're lowering the Dilithium rewarded for STF's, it seems with the new system we'll end up having to spend more in the long run. and while you're adding more ways to get it, some people only like to run STF's for their gear, so I don't understand why you can't at least leave it the same.
Anyway just my thoughts so far, can't wait till the full system is up on TRIBBLE and we can all see what it looks like.
Thanks for making a great game and continuing to improve it by leaps and bounds!
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." Jean-Luc Picard
Some of this stuff makes me want to go back to single-player offline games.
Lol....
Indeed, time to dust off Star Trek Armada. The thing is, I will be faced with the same problem I have while playing Star Trek Online, insufficient dilithium.
I am glad for your feed back and heads up for season 8.
Looking forward to some KDF fun.
The frustration has built up over time and continues to build.
Unfortunately you are the man in the hot seat so to speak and when ever someone sticks their head above the parapets the proverbial will often fly.
I think there is little doubt of the team at cryptics dedication and love of Trek.
The main cause of frustration is how this is proceeding.
For most of us, there will never be this is only a game attitude with STO because of the IP.
We love trek just as much as anyone at cryptic and funnily enough despite evidence to the contrary.
We want this game to succeed as much as you all do and we can all be here playing in season 12 and beyond.
It is this love of trek as much as your teams good works that could give this game the longest legs in the industry.
Its this love of trek that needs to be managed correctly.
It is the greatest asset and most ip's and developers could only dream of acquiring anything nearly as good.
Your best way to gauge what is good in STO is use your love for trek and think as players not as developers.
Then honestly decide would I have fun playing that star trek online addition/ mission/ system everyday and still have find the star trek love ?
If the love is not there then it does not really belong here.
Other developers plan to change the way their products are funded and profits accrued and the F2P market will be even more packed with choice for the casual F2P player.
The future will hold many game changing industry rethinks on the playing and spending tolerances of the gaming community.
You all know this and much, much more than I could ever know about all that.
The key will be if the love wins over the pain.
Because without the love its just another game.
Keep in mind that STFs will reward Dilithium AND Omega Marks - and Omega Marks can then be converted to more Dilithium after you've hit max level in Omega, so it may seem just be a short sighted argument.
There is no reason that an Elite STF that requires 5 players to first get together and complete should reward the same or less missions than what's listed above
In fact you can earn 500 dilithium not even being at your PC through the DOFF system or 2K dilithium through the contraband turn in!!
I think the idea was to push more people into the fleet events and alerts, here are my problems with that:
1) Incentive for content A does not need to be mutually exclusive with incentive content B.
2) Players should earn rewards based on the content. I'm glad you're improving fleet action rewards, but why do you feel the need to crush the STF rewards at the same time? Some of these fleet actions are just big, story-less shooting galleries that don't even require the slightest bit of thought.
If you really want to incentivize various existing content you need to build it into the calendar with more bonus days or even bonus per week if a player completes content A, B, C & D in a specific time frame (say, 1 week) then they get a X% bonus dilithium or a better chance at a drop or similar.
In addition Fleet Actions will now have better rewards in general
Gold = Purple + 1920 Dilithium
Silver = Purple + 960 Dilithium
Bronze = Blue + 960 Dilithium
All others = Green + 960 Dilithium
I like the idea of player's being rewarded for better performance.
The above is problematic however.
You can clearly see the issue present itself in starbase 24.
You have 5 players, playing completely selfishly. No one is there to help anyone else.
You have 1 player who is the winner, and the only way to win is just raw damage output which basically tells two entire ship classes and two captain types to just stay home if they actually want a reward.
What you should do, for bonus rewards, is something similar to STFs (but are not straight DPS races, which plays into the above as well just a bit less selfishly).
Essentially, there should be a set of performance thresholds and when those are achieved the entire team gets a bonus reward.
This could comeas a set of optionals that must be achieved or if you want to simply sum up the combined DPS/Heals/Debuffs put out by a team vs. time to complete.
1) We're going to lock everyone from accessing the STF stores until they grind, grind, grind for months, totally throwing out their progress they have now until they're done grinding to the top.
2) We're going to add dilithium and DOFF sinks that were never there before to STF rewards.
3) We're going to half the dilithium rewards to make the grind even harder.
4) We're going to add even more dilithium and DOFF sinks for other stuff at the same time to drain people's resources even more.
5) We're going to say this is totes awesome.
The Cylons ended up having a better, more thought out plan than this.
1) We're going to lock everyone from accessing the STF stores until they grind, grind, grind for months, totally throwing out their progress they have now until they're done grinding to the top.
2) We're going to add dilithium and DOFF sinks that were never there before to STF rewards.
3) We're going to half the dilithium rewards to make the grind even harder.
4) We're going to add even more dilithium and DOFF sinks for other stuff at the same time to drain people's resources even more.
5) We're going to say this is totes awesome.
The Cylons ended up having a better, more thought out plan than this.
Wile E. Coyote had better plans while trying to catch Roadrunner
This whole season 7 seems like it is going to be make or break of this game it seems to be. the idea of having to earn hundreds of thousands of dilithium when you can only turn 8k a day is gonna be obscene. Not to mention downright wrong. I for one will not stand for it. This game has had issues and now PWE once again is gonna bad problem a whole lot worse. Just cant believe this game is getting so destroyed so quickly. Looks like its time to dust off certain games and reinstall. I will not regrind for everything all over again. The people that have already done the grinding should not have to do it again. PWE that is not a reward it is punishing your customers. Why would you expect a customer that has already done the grinding to do it all over again. Apparently you guys dont use logic when making these patches(Seasons)....also not to mention the hundreds of dollars i have spent on subbing and for zen store ships and other things...Now have to regrind to get all the stuff i already worked hard to get...Plain just not right to keep punishing your customers guys, You are treading on being worse than Blizzard..Blizzard never punished there customers this bad
Sincerely,
A very frustrated customer
If they make something idiot proof. They will come out with better idiots
Well it might be true that the increase in dil expenses is mainly an attempt to slow people's progression.
It would certainly explain why doff's have to go up in price and also why there have to be a timer on the reputation system in addition to not allowing people to bring their previous rewards over...
D-stalling or maybe d'stalin
I am actually more optimistic about season 7 after all the bad news for some reason go figure albeit right now I am thinking a ship filled with purple dil miners and 500 doff packs in the cargo bay see you in season 8
The grind I could probably live with if the rewards weren't gear I already had. Romulan reputation system with new armor great let's see what it is like
But having to regrind on stf for all the stuff I already have I just don't see that happening I don't know if I have it in me
1) We're going to lock everyone from accessing the STF stores until they grind, grind, grind for months, totally throwing out their progress they have now until they're done grinding to the top.
2) We're going to add dilithium and DOFF sinks that were never there before to STF rewards.
3) We're going to half the dilithium rewards to make the grind even harder.
4) We're going to add even more dilithium and DOFF sinks for other stuff at the same time to drain people's resources even more.
5) We're going to say this is totes awesome.
The Cylons ended up having a better, more thought out plan than this.
Indeed and yet, the Dilithium currency itself was originally conceived as a means on allowing F2P players to access paid for content on the C-Store... so these changes would seemingly fly in the face of the original design purpose of said currency.
Even if the value of Dilithium was to increase due to scarcity it would have little effect as those same F2p would have to make purchase judgements between STF gear, Doffing and the other pre-established Dilithium sinks and putting any Dilithium aside for C-Store purchases.
It does seem to defy the stated intent of usage for the Dilithium currency model.
Thank you for your blog post, I can't wait for S7, but I do have some feedback on what has been posted.
1) I think the Dil reward for the STF and Fleet Actions seem to be a bit low for the casual player. I would like to see the STF stay the same on the Dil rewards and thank you for adding them to Fleet Actions.
2) I think you made a mistake of posting this Blog before the posting one detailing the Reputation System. Because this is the "bad news", but I can't compare it to the "good news"
3) I love the idea of the Reputation System, thinking sideways instead of just dumping more level is a good idea.
4) I would have like to have seen you incorporate the Accolade System into the new system, because honestly the Accolade need some love
5) I think making everyone start at ground zero not a great idea, a good idea would have allowed the vet players by pass Tier 1 in some way or fashion, giving us a goal to work toward S7, before launch of S7
I thank you and your team for all your work and dedication to this game. My wife hates you on the other hand, but you can't please everyone.
The designers had a desire to see more people playing the Fleet Actions by making Fleet Actions the best source of Dilithium. Keep in mind that STFs will reward Dilithium AND Omega Marks - and Omega Marks can then be converted to more Dilithium after you've hit max level in Omega, so it may seem just be a short sighted argument.
On the subject of Dilithium, Mr. Stahl, will there be a way in the near future to increase refining limits on Di? Yes, there are many sources of ORE. But a hard cap of 8k Di is going to make everything take so much longer to get for the arbitrary reason that you want time-based currency. The refining cap, with all the things that now cost Di (and cost a LOT of Di, it takes a week to refine the Di needed for ONE piece of the Aegis set now), is FAR too low.
Also, personally, I think Starfleet Command must me on some good Hypurian Beetle Snuff to think it's a good idea to give their captains UNREFINED Di lithium to power their ships. Could we get at least a few missions that reward REFINED Dilithium?
Also, when Di was first coming out, you mentioned to STOked that there might be a mission at a Di refinery and one of the rewards would be the ability to use their refinery for your ore after the mission. Where's this?
I agree 100% - fleet missions and STF's are hard enough outside of pre-made groups, I can't even begin to imagine how horrible they would become with everyone fighting for 1st place. STO would lose any sense of acting as a team that it had and the long-term damage could be devastating.
Absolutely, the day that STO fleet missions and other missions turn to top dog wins or gets the biggest reward is the day the game will begin it's death spiral.
All the rest of this dilth stuff and other changes - people will adapt - but turning player against player in a team based missions will mark the beginning of the exodus of collosal amounts of casual players. New players won't have a hope in hell and will also leave the game quickly. I was so relieved that Mr Stahl is planning on ditching this 1st/2nd/3rd place reward system.
Also, when Di was first coming out, you mentioned to STOked that there might be a mission at a Di refinery and one of the rewards would be the ability to use their refinery for your ore after the mission. Where's this?
Are you talking about the Veteran Reward that lets you refine an extra 1,000 Refined Dil?
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Yes, I call them faulty. Why? Because those issues aren't really as big as issues as you're claiming.
From your words I'm not quoting, it is my opinion you're simply using your own brand of logic and nitpicking at everything he says, with an over-bias from past behavior coloring what you're reading.
Thus saying your own logic is flawed, and a bit hypocritical with what you're saying.
In my opinion.
Alright let us go into this,
Over-bias? I am a player, that has played this game for years, of course I am bias to changes made to it, is that really in dispute? or maybe you mean I am bias to my own opinions? really? lol
Here is Baseless Speculation: You are bias, in that every post you make, is in defense of Cryptic. One would suspect you are working for them, and are just signing on an alt account to muddy the waters in an attempt to disregard players concerns for the sake of your own job. There is no base to this speculation, but I can make it nonetheless.
"My own brand of logic, nitpicking what he says?"
In other words, what he says is just an opinion, and not a factual statement, and I must take the whole thing as positive, and not be allowed to take it apart to point out the huge problems within it? and my reaction to his opinion is just an overreaction? and not a response to his statement?
Past behavior? Here is speculation with a base, If you mean the previous company he worked for, with a nearly identical business model, yeah, I think the past is relevant here. Another dev who quit, made a similar comment regarding the company he worked for, and do you think it was just magical coincidence? or the dev secretly pointing the finger at Stahl?
Furthermore, reminding him of the company he worked for, reminds him of how it has utterly crashed into the ground and not to repeat the same mistakes. Afterall, if we do not learn from our past, we will never learn.
My logic is sound, your posts are always the same theme, defend Cryptic, no matter what. I have defended Cryptic in the past, but not lately, so my posts may appear to always be negative, but one must have something positive to look forward too, other than grind, being gouged and lied too.
Are you talking about the Veteran Reward that lets you refine an extra 1,000 Refined Dil?
No, he mentioned a mission where you'd defend the refinery, then you'd get to use it after the mission. Also, 1,000 Di isn't that great, especially since I can't find the guy worth TRIBBLE.
I will hold off on a major/final judgement of the system until I see it all on Tribble, as you suggest DStahl. What you have said so far is worrying to me. I can see the rationale you (the devs) have for making everyone start from square one. But the problem I see is that by the time we would unlock our conversions, we would already have such vast amounts of those currencies stockpiled from all the grinding, that the additional amount from conversion would be superfluous. I would suggest perhaps giving members who have played many STF's a leg up on reputation points. They would still need to do the upgrade projects. It wouldn't have to be enough to reach T5. They would still have project cooldowns. This way those of us who have played a lot of STF's won't feel like we are starting over at square 1, but we also wouldn't instantly be T5 either (plus we would still need to do some grinding to get materials for the upgrade projects and additional projects past where the points took us).
Still haven't heard an explanation on why -vif dilithium price hiking isn't tied to Cryptic financial gain as Dan says - why its occuring?
Seriously - someone explain the logic behind the DOFF grinder dilithium charge for 5 commons to 1 RANDOM uncommon going from 10 dil to 500 dil in a manner that makes sense and makes me not want to fire-sale my DOFFs the night before the season 7 push.
If this goes live, it kills fleet progress, rep propgress (if as I am reading rep will require doffs) and totally jacks the doff market on the exchange. For the sake of a change that makes no impact to the companies financial bottomline?
No, he mentioned a mission where you'd defend the refinery, then you'd get to use it after the mission. Also, 1,000 Di isn't that great, especially since I can't find the guy worth ****.
Homie is standing to the right of the door to the main academy building at SFA (your right as you enter the building). Takes forever for him to convert that extra 1k dilithium thou.
Homie is standing to the right of the door to the main academy building at SFA (your right as you enter the building). Takes forever for him to convert that extra 1k dilithium thou.
I'm never AT SFA, though. I do STFs almost constantly, there's next to no reason for me to leave DS9 most days. Especially if it's ONLY 1,000 Di. What's that going to net me? Yea, maybe a few ZEN. But the trip from DS9 to SFA and back isn't worth it. I might hole up next to him after S7, though, since there really won't be a reason to do everything at DS9.
Speaking of DS9, I wonder how much the "Join Omega Force" mission will change, since it gives a Mk X Requisition.
Well it might be true that the increase in dil expenses is mainly an attempt to slow people's progression.
It would certainly explain why doff's have to go up in price and also why there have to be a timer on the reputation system in addition to not allowing people to bring their previous rewards over...
D-stalling or maybe d'stalin
I am actually more optimistic about season 7 after all the bad news for some reason go figure albeit right now I am thinking a ship filled with purple dil miners and 500 doff packs in the cargo bay see you in season 8
The grind I could probably live with if the rewards weren't gear I already had. Romulan reputation system with new armor great let's see what it is like
But having to regrind on stf for all the stuff I already have I just don't see that happening I don't know if I have it in me
The timer was created to balance with the requirements as stated by Inferno in another thread; the timer is actually a nice way to balance the rep system aslso I did some math ealier in this thread and pointed out you only need to grind an average of 970 dilithium a day to do progress steadily throughout the reputation system.
But the long and tall of it for me and it seem many others as well is this;
Yes we are happy with the new content and reputation systems in theory.
Most of us however are unhappy with the implementations, namely the severe reduction in Dilithium rewards for STFs and the creation of huge dilithium sinks across the game.
Thus far we have not received a satisfactory answer, the argument was made that dilithium is not an important part of the business and that it's main purpose was to allow F2P players a chance to grab C-Store items. That being it's intent I am at a loss to explain why more dilithium sinks have been created to divert the currency from it's intended use.
Those are mine and many others main concerns in a nutshell. I think I also say for nearly all of us that have an interested in the Doff system that the grinders are fine as they are thanks. Indeed many of us are perplexed as to why this area was target for such a drastic change in dilithium costs at all as it is once again just diverts dilithium from it's intended use.
Hint, one mission per year does not actually count as anything remotely meaningful.
You did setup a very very nice mission chain in the past for the KDF, then suddenly abandoned it altogether. Which is a shame since those are the best missions in the game.
This is the kind of stuff we would love to see for the KDF PvE mission wise. Not Fed missions where we are addressed differently. Actual KDF specific missions. Continue the Feh'kiri story line. Its already epic, make it the epicness.
Oh and we really would love to get some new things to dress our self in.
There are so many good looking KDF costumes we could have and buy... <hint hint>
A little here and there would go a long way.
Throw us a bone, like one new thing for the KDF per month. costume piece, mission, ship. New stuff. To show that you folks are actually mean it.
Heck, i have a lot of ideas for new Orion outfits that would go well with the theme you have established. that we green girls need a smith instead of a tailor lol.
i agree man the story line rocks and should be added on also a perfect oportuinity to add a refit of karfi.
I'm never AT SFA, though. I do STFs almost constantly, there's next to no reason for me to leave DS9 most days. Especially if it's ONLY 1,000 Di. What's that going to net me? Yea, maybe a few ZEN. But the trip from DS9 to SFA and back isn't worth it. I might hole up next to him after S7, though, since there really won't be a reason to do everything at DS9.
Speaking of DS9, I wonder how much the "Join Omega Force" mission will change, since it gives a Mk X Requisition.
Not like you have to be at DS9 to do STF's and not like you really need to stand in front of the store after each STF to turn stuff in at that moment.
And with Season 7 you never have to go to DS9 ever again. Unless for Gorn talk.
The designers had a desire to see more people playing the Fleet Actions by making Fleet Actions the best source of Dilithium. Keep in mind that STFs will reward Dilithium AND Omega Marks - and Omega Marks can then be converted to more Dilithium after you've hit max level in Omega, so it may seem just be a short sighted argument.
True but you'll also be making it so that in the 2-3 months it takes to get to max level we will be making less, in the long run this will end up being less Dilithium overall than we'd have normally. Especially since I imagine these Mark to Dilithium projects will be time gated and take a day or more to complete and most likely will reward ore not refined dilithium which is also gated to a set amount of refinement per day.
Will such a perk also exist within the Romulan Reputation tree?
Here's what I posted in another thread and remains the same
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic
No, it really isn't. Here's the numbers you're not seeing:
A full set of Mk XII Gear costs 3000 Marks, 15 Elite Marks, and ~100,000 Dilithium.
Attaining Tier 5 in Omega Rep costs 1,686 Marks, 0 Elite Marks, and ~80,000 Dilithium.
People that have already obtained a full set of the Mk XII gear of their choosing no longer have the need to spend the currency listed in above. In fact, along the way to obtaining that gear, it's incredibly likely that they've picked up a good chunk of EDCs, Salvage and Tech, all of which they have no use for (because they already have their desired gear), and will all be converted into Omega Marks which now have a purpose for them, should they choose to use them.
Their extra 'reward' is the fact that the system will cost them less. Considering the prices involved here, that's not something to be ignored.
You've already said that each mkxii item would be 5 elite marks. So as you stated above, a "complete set" is only the shield/engine/deflector.
So if you want a weapons set that's another 30k x number of weapons. So for me that's 7 which equals another 210k. So that is a total 390k dil for what really is a complete set. THAT'S A MONTH AND A HALF OF USING EVERY BIT OF DIL YOU CAN REFINE PER DAY.
ARE YOU GUYS NUTS?
And if you've got multiple toons you'd have to contribute 80k dil for each to unlock the store
And not only dil but all the other stuff you have to contribute to reputation projects
And not only is there omega but if you want romulan stuff, its the same
And now you want us to pay outrageous amounts for doffs
And we're supposed to contribute to our fleet projects
And now there is MORE fleet projects with the embassy
Never mind the fact that there are those who have already put countless hours into stf's and now have to grind..again to get access to the things they already have access to (ie have prototype and edcs saved to get new things when I want) for however long it takes to re-unlock it. I mean this whole thing just reeks of you guys wanting to make the game so f'ing miserable that the only way to enjoy it is to cough up fist fulls of dollars. I understand that you need to make money but ffs you already nickle and dime people to death. And... what about those who already give you money? Those people really get screwed.
What do I suggest?
1) scrap the idea of the doff price increases. They're completely outrageous.
2) Make the rep system account wide, not character specific or allow the items to be able to be traded between characters in an account.
3) Get rid of the project completion time in the rep system. If someone has the marks because they converted it from edc/prototypes, there's no reason why they should have to wait 2 months to get the things they already have access to. Either that or just simply open the store to anyone who already has access to those items. Again asking people to grind again for something they have already done the grinding for is BS.
4) Something that should have been done long ago..... get rid of the dil refinement cap for gold/veterans. They give you money already and they shouldn't be limited. If you worried about people zen farming....simple solution. Put a cap on how much zen can be bought with dil per day.
On a side note. Scrap the borg set changes. 3 piece + maco is the most popular config in the game. It's not overpowered and doesn't need to be changed. How about instead you create something new for people to try and get. That's called adding value instead of what you propose which feels like a big middle finger to the player base.
p.s. while your at it.....you should come up with a new reward for those veterans who put in so much time into the game (which is very valuable, money isn't the only that keeps this game alive) AND gave you money, since you decided to give thier reward away to those who have given far less (both in time and money)
Comments
From your words I'm not quoting, it is my opinion you're simply using your own brand of logic and nitpicking at everything he says, with an over-bias from past behavior coloring what you're reading.
Thus saying your own logic is flawed, and a bit hypocritical with what you're saying.
In my opinion.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I agree 100% - fleet missions and STF's are hard enough outside of pre-made groups, I can't even begin to imagine how horrible they would become with everyone fighting for 1st place. STO would lose any sense of acting as a team that it had and the long-term damage could be devastating.
First of all I LOVE the new reputation system, I think it's a great way to add new end game content and rewards into the game. I love how you get new abilities as well as opening up new rewards along the way.
However I have the same concerns about the reward crate that' we'll be getting when we reach lvl V. I can understand why you're holding it off until then, so we don't blow what we've been saving for gear to unlock the new rewards instead. But I share others concern that it feels like you're taking something away from us.
It's like when I was a kid and ready to go play, but my mom said "you have to clean your room first" I feel a lot of people see the work as a chore before the reward. Which is kind of sad, if playing a game feels like a chore it's not a good thing.
So maybe you could consider at least not holding the EDC's since that's something we can already spend, and if we've gotten borg salvage we can spend it now, and the regular or prototype borg tech is worth the most obviously so we might want to save that for later. But in the end I think you should give the player the option if they want to use it as soon as the conversion is made or hold on to it to use for gear later, and not have to wait till Tier V to use it
Also I'm concerned that you're lowering the Dilithium rewarded for STF's, it seems with the new system we'll end up having to spend more in the long run. and while you're adding more ways to get it, some people only like to run STF's for their gear, so I don't understand why you can't at least leave it the same.
Anyway just my thoughts so far, can't wait till the full system is up on TRIBBLE and we can all see what it looks like.
Thanks for making a great game and continuing to improve it by leaps and bounds!
Indeed, time to dust off Star Trek Armada. The thing is, I will be faced with the same problem I have while playing Star Trek Online, insufficient dilithium.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Looking forward to some KDF fun.
The frustration has built up over time and continues to build.
Unfortunately you are the man in the hot seat so to speak and when ever someone sticks their head above the parapets the proverbial will often fly.
I think there is little doubt of the team at cryptics dedication and love of Trek.
The main cause of frustration is how this is proceeding.
For most of us, there will never be this is only a game attitude with STO because of the IP.
We love trek just as much as anyone at cryptic and funnily enough despite evidence to the contrary.
We want this game to succeed as much as you all do and we can all be here playing in season 12 and beyond.
It is this love of trek as much as your teams good works that could give this game the longest legs in the industry.
Its this love of trek that needs to be managed correctly.
It is the greatest asset and most ip's and developers could only dream of acquiring anything nearly as good.
Your best way to gauge what is good in STO is use your love for trek and think as players not as developers.
Then honestly decide would I have fun playing that star trek online addition/ mission/ system everyday and still have find the star trek love ?
If the love is not there then it does not really belong here.
Other developers plan to change the way their products are funded and profits accrued and the F2P market will be even more packed with choice for the casual F2P player.
The future will hold many game changing industry rethinks on the playing and spending tolerances of the gaming community.
You all know this and much, much more than I could ever know about all that.
The key will be if the love wins over the pain.
Because without the love its just another game.
Ok.
I posted this in the tribble sub-forum, but I'll repost a bit here as well.
I'm sorry Dan, but I vehemently disagree.
We are also losing the EDC, Rare/Proto Salvage, Extra Tech Dilithium turn ins are we not?
It's going to cost approximately 484,000 dilithium to get to T5 rep, buy 8 [Borg] weapons & buy 3 set pieces.
Why de-incentivize the very content that you are adding a dilithium sink to by reducing the dilithium rewards?
For one thing, ground rewards as they stand now are not commensurate with the amount of time investment they require vs. space.
Another is that 480 is really a pittance for an Elite STF.
Here are some solo missions that reward 480:
- Rescue Deferi Captives (this mission takes under 3 minutes)
- History 102: Alpha Quadrant Midterm (takes about 30s)
- Explore Strange New Worlds 1440 (takes about 15 minutes)
- The above can be combined with Chart the B'tran cluster for a total of 2880 dilithium
- Traelus System Repair 480 (takes under 5 minutes)
There are at least another 3-4 missions like this.There is no reason that an Elite STF that requires 5 players to first get together and complete should reward the same or less missions than what's listed above
In fact you can earn 500 dilithium not even being at your PC through the DOFF system or 2K dilithium through the contraband turn in!!
I think the idea was to push more people into the fleet events and alerts, here are my problems with that:
1) Incentive for content A does not need to be mutually exclusive with incentive content B.
2) Players should earn rewards based on the content. I'm glad you're improving fleet action rewards, but why do you feel the need to crush the STF rewards at the same time? Some of these fleet actions are just big, story-less shooting galleries that don't even require the slightest bit of thought.
If you really want to incentivize various existing content you need to build it into the calendar with more bonus days or even bonus per week if a player completes content A, B, C & D in a specific time frame (say, 1 week) then they get a X% bonus dilithium or a better chance at a drop or similar.
While we're on the subject of reward:
I like the idea of player's being rewarded for better performance.
The above is problematic however.
You can clearly see the issue present itself in starbase 24.
You have 5 players, playing completely selfishly. No one is there to help anyone else.
You have 1 player who is the winner, and the only way to win is just raw damage output which basically tells two entire ship classes and two captain types to just stay home if they actually want a reward.
What you should do, for bonus rewards, is something similar to STFs (but are not straight DPS races, which plays into the above as well just a bit less selfishly).
Essentially, there should be a set of performance thresholds and when those are achieved the entire team gets a bonus reward.
This could comeas a set of optionals that must be achieved or if you want to simply sum up the combined DPS/Heals/Debuffs put out by a team vs. time to complete.
1) We're going to lock everyone from accessing the STF stores until they grind, grind, grind for months, totally throwing out their progress they have now until they're done grinding to the top.
2) We're going to add dilithium and DOFF sinks that were never there before to STF rewards.
3) We're going to half the dilithium rewards to make the grind even harder.
4) We're going to add even more dilithium and DOFF sinks for other stuff at the same time to drain people's resources even more.
5) We're going to say this is totes awesome.
The Cylons ended up having a better, more thought out plan than this.
Wile E. Coyote had better plans while trying to catch Roadrunner
Sincerely,
A very frustrated customer
It would certainly explain why doff's have to go up in price and also why there have to be a timer on the reputation system in addition to not allowing people to bring their previous rewards over...
D-stalling or maybe d'stalin
I am actually more optimistic about season 7 after all the bad news for some reason go figure albeit right now I am thinking a ship filled with purple dil miners and 500 doff packs in the cargo bay see you in season 8
The grind I could probably live with if the rewards weren't gear I already had. Romulan reputation system with new armor great let's see what it is like
But having to regrind on stf for all the stuff I already have I just don't see that happening I don't know if I have it in me
Indeed and yet, the Dilithium currency itself was originally conceived as a means on allowing F2P players to access paid for content on the C-Store... so these changes would seemingly fly in the face of the original design purpose of said currency.
Even if the value of Dilithium was to increase due to scarcity it would have little effect as those same F2p would have to make purchase judgements between STF gear, Doffing and the other pre-established Dilithium sinks and putting any Dilithium aside for C-Store purchases.
It does seem to defy the stated intent of usage for the Dilithium currency model.
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Thank you for your blog post, I can't wait for S7, but I do have some feedback on what has been posted.
1) I think the Dil reward for the STF and Fleet Actions seem to be a bit low for the casual player. I would like to see the STF stay the same on the Dil rewards and thank you for adding them to Fleet Actions.
2) I think you made a mistake of posting this Blog before the posting one detailing the Reputation System. Because this is the "bad news", but I can't compare it to the "good news"
3) I love the idea of the Reputation System, thinking sideways instead of just dumping more level is a good idea.
4) I would have like to have seen you incorporate the Accolade System into the new system, because honestly the Accolade need some love
5) I think making everyone start at ground zero not a great idea, a good idea would have allowed the vet players by pass Tier 1 in some way or fashion, giving us a goal to work toward S7, before launch of S7
I thank you and your team for all your work and dedication to this game. My wife hates you on the other hand, but you can't please everyone.
On the subject of Dilithium, Mr. Stahl, will there be a way in the near future to increase refining limits on Di? Yes, there are many sources of ORE. But a hard cap of 8k Di is going to make everything take so much longer to get for the arbitrary reason that you want time-based currency. The refining cap, with all the things that now cost Di (and cost a LOT of Di, it takes a week to refine the Di needed for ONE piece of the Aegis set now), is FAR too low.
Also, personally, I think Starfleet Command must me on some good Hypurian Beetle Snuff to think it's a good idea to give their captains UNREFINED Di lithium to power their ships. Could we get at least a few missions that reward REFINED Dilithium?
Also, when Di was first coming out, you mentioned to STOked that there might be a mission at a Di refinery and one of the rewards would be the ability to use their refinery for your ore after the mission. Where's this?
Absolutely, the day that STO fleet missions and other missions turn to top dog wins or gets the biggest reward is the day the game will begin it's death spiral.
All the rest of this dilth stuff and other changes - people will adapt - but turning player against player in a team based missions will mark the beginning of the exodus of collosal amounts of casual players. New players won't have a hope in hell and will also leave the game quickly. I was so relieved that Mr Stahl is planning on ditching this 1st/2nd/3rd place reward system.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Alright let us go into this,
Over-bias? I am a player, that has played this game for years, of course I am bias to changes made to it, is that really in dispute? or maybe you mean I am bias to my own opinions? really? lol
Here is Baseless Speculation: You are bias, in that every post you make, is in defense of Cryptic. One would suspect you are working for them, and are just signing on an alt account to muddy the waters in an attempt to disregard players concerns for the sake of your own job. There is no base to this speculation, but I can make it nonetheless.
"My own brand of logic, nitpicking what he says?"
In other words, what he says is just an opinion, and not a factual statement, and I must take the whole thing as positive, and not be allowed to take it apart to point out the huge problems within it? and my reaction to his opinion is just an overreaction? and not a response to his statement?
Past behavior? Here is speculation with a base, If you mean the previous company he worked for, with a nearly identical business model, yeah, I think the past is relevant here. Another dev who quit, made a similar comment regarding the company he worked for, and do you think it was just magical coincidence? or the dev secretly pointing the finger at Stahl?
Furthermore, reminding him of the company he worked for, reminds him of how it has utterly crashed into the ground and not to repeat the same mistakes. Afterall, if we do not learn from our past, we will never learn.
My logic is sound, your posts are always the same theme, defend Cryptic, no matter what. I have defended Cryptic in the past, but not lately, so my posts may appear to always be negative, but one must have something positive to look forward too, other than grind, being gouged and lied too.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
No, he mentioned a mission where you'd defend the refinery, then you'd get to use it after the mission. Also, 1,000 Di isn't that great, especially since I can't find the guy worth TRIBBLE.
Seriously - someone explain the logic behind the DOFF grinder dilithium charge for 5 commons to 1 RANDOM uncommon going from 10 dil to 500 dil in a manner that makes sense and makes me not want to fire-sale my DOFFs the night before the season 7 push.
If this goes live, it kills fleet progress, rep propgress (if as I am reading rep will require doffs) and totally jacks the doff market on the exchange. For the sake of a change that makes no impact to the companies financial bottomline?
Someone.
Anyone.
Explain that to me.
Homie is standing to the right of the door to the main academy building at SFA (your right as you enter the building). Takes forever for him to convert that extra 1k dilithium thou.
I'm never AT SFA, though. I do STFs almost constantly, there's next to no reason for me to leave DS9 most days. Especially if it's ONLY 1,000 Di. What's that going to net me? Yea, maybe a few ZEN. But the trip from DS9 to SFA and back isn't worth it. I might hole up next to him after S7, though, since there really won't be a reason to do everything at DS9.
Speaking of DS9, I wonder how much the "Join Omega Force" mission will change, since it gives a Mk X Requisition.
The timer was created to balance with the requirements as stated by Inferno in another thread; the timer is actually a nice way to balance the rep system aslso I did some math ealier in this thread and pointed out you only need to grind an average of 970 dilithium a day to do progress steadily throughout the reputation system.
Probably just give you an omega mark and roxy will be changed to explain the rep system instead of the store explanation.
But the long and tall of it for me and it seem many others as well is this;
Yes we are happy with the new content and reputation systems in theory.
Most of us however are unhappy with the implementations, namely the severe reduction in Dilithium rewards for STFs and the creation of huge dilithium sinks across the game.
Thus far we have not received a satisfactory answer, the argument was made that dilithium is not an important part of the business and that it's main purpose was to allow F2P players a chance to grab C-Store items. That being it's intent I am at a loss to explain why more dilithium sinks have been created to divert the currency from it's intended use.
Those are mine and many others main concerns in a nutshell. I think I also say for nearly all of us that have an interested in the Doff system that the grinders are fine as they are thanks. Indeed many of us are perplexed as to why this area was target for such a drastic change in dilithium costs at all as it is once again just diverts dilithium from it's intended use.
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i agree man the story line rocks and should be added on also a perfect oportuinity to add a refit of karfi.
And with Season 7 you never have to go to DS9 ever again. Unless for Gorn talk.
And for Morn talk, too, if you want the accolade.
True but you'll also be making it so that in the 2-3 months it takes to get to max level we will be making less, in the long run this will end up being less Dilithium overall than we'd have normally. Especially since I imagine these Mark to Dilithium projects will be time gated and take a day or more to complete and most likely will reward ore not refined dilithium which is also gated to a set amount of refinement per day.
Will such a perk also exist within the Romulan Reputation tree?
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic
No, it really isn't. Here's the numbers you're not seeing:
A full set of Mk XII Gear costs 3000 Marks, 15 Elite Marks, and ~100,000 Dilithium.
Attaining Tier 5 in Omega Rep costs 1,686 Marks, 0 Elite Marks, and ~80,000 Dilithium.
People that have already obtained a full set of the Mk XII gear of their choosing no longer have the need to spend the currency listed in above. In fact, along the way to obtaining that gear, it's incredibly likely that they've picked up a good chunk of EDCs, Salvage and Tech, all of which they have no use for (because they already have their desired gear), and will all be converted into Omega Marks which now have a purpose for them, should they choose to use them.
Their extra 'reward' is the fact that the system will cost them less. Considering the prices involved here, that's not something to be ignored.
You've already said that each mkxii item would be 5 elite marks. So as you stated above, a "complete set" is only the shield/engine/deflector.
So if you want a weapons set that's another 30k x number of weapons. So for me that's 7 which equals another 210k. So that is a total 390k dil for what really is a complete set. THAT'S A MONTH AND A HALF OF USING EVERY BIT OF DIL YOU CAN REFINE PER DAY.
ARE YOU GUYS NUTS?
And if you've got multiple toons you'd have to contribute 80k dil for each to unlock the store
And not only dil but all the other stuff you have to contribute to reputation projects
And not only is there omega but if you want romulan stuff, its the same
And now you want us to pay outrageous amounts for doffs
And we're supposed to contribute to our fleet projects
And now there is MORE fleet projects with the embassy
Never mind the fact that there are those who have already put countless hours into stf's and now have to grind..again to get access to the things they already have access to (ie have prototype and edcs saved to get new things when I want) for however long it takes to re-unlock it. I mean this whole thing just reeks of you guys wanting to make the game so f'ing miserable that the only way to enjoy it is to cough up fist fulls of dollars. I understand that you need to make money but ffs you already nickle and dime people to death. And... what about those who already give you money? Those people really get screwed.
What do I suggest?
1) scrap the idea of the doff price increases. They're completely outrageous.
2) Make the rep system account wide, not character specific or allow the items to be able to be traded between characters in an account.
3) Get rid of the project completion time in the rep system. If someone has the marks because they converted it from edc/prototypes, there's no reason why they should have to wait 2 months to get the things they already have access to. Either that or just simply open the store to anyone who already has access to those items. Again asking people to grind again for something they have already done the grinding for is BS.
4) Something that should have been done long ago..... get rid of the dil refinement cap for gold/veterans. They give you money already and they shouldn't be limited. If you worried about people zen farming....simple solution. Put a cap on how much zen can be bought with dil per day.
On a side note. Scrap the borg set changes. 3 piece + maco is the most popular config in the game. It's not overpowered and doesn't need to be changed. How about instead you create something new for people to try and get. That's called adding value instead of what you propose which feels like a big middle finger to the player base.
p.s. while your at it.....you should come up with a new reward for those veterans who put in so much time into the game (which is very valuable, money isn't the only that keeps this game alive) AND gave you money, since you decided to give thier reward away to those who have given far less (both in time and money)