Quick note: I'm on medical leave. The surgeon has not cleared me to return to work. I just happen to be able to browse the internet while recovering,
Well, glad to hear from you.
which allows me to visit the forums from time to time because I love you all so much.
BS you hate us!! lol j/k
I bet after your return, a few liked Doctors and nurse/medic doffs will show up in the selection.
Especially a particular Nurse doffs that doesn't seem to make any player happy, a Nurse Ratchet if you will.
[SIGPIC]Handle: @kirian_darkstar
Registered: Oct/2009 , LTS : Feb/2011
Fleets: Warriors of the Phoenix, Kirian Industries[/SIGPIC] Three years and still no Captain Klaa hair...
Quick note: I'm on medical leave. The surgeon has not cleared me to return to work. I just happen to be able to browse the internet while recovering, which allows me to visit the forums from time to time because I love you all so much.
For what its worth (from someone you've never met and will likely never meet), I hope you get through the difficult time that your facing right now as quickly and as painlessly as possible.
Quick note: I'm on medical leave. The surgeon has not cleared me to return to work. I just happen to be able to browse the internet while recovering, which allows me to visit the forums from time to time because I love you all so much.
It's good to hear your voice. May you have a speedy recovery. Know that you're missed here, and not just for your skill set.
Quick note: I'm on medical leave. The surgeon has not cleared me to return to work. I just happen to be able to browse the internet while recovering, which allows me to visit the forums from time to time because I love you all so much.
So glad to hear that your on the mend. When I heard about it via STOked Radio, I was shocked. Sorry to hear that such a thing had to happen while you were at Trek Vegas. And get well soon!
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Quick note: I'm on medical leave. The surgeon has not cleared me to return to work. I just happen to be able to browse the internet while recovering, which allows me to visit the forums from time to time because I love you all so much.
Dude... sorry to hear that it got so bad that you needed a surgeon...
Hope ya didn't lose to much function of the leg...
I've worked in a hospital all my adult life, I have seen just how bad things like this can get.
All my prayers and hopes that you have a speedy and trouble-free recovery.
And come visit us here more often...,
Just so we can keep yer spirits up with our constant nagging and whining. :P
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Quick note: I'm on medical leave. The surgeon has not cleared me to return to work. I just happen to be able to browse the internet while recovering, which allows me to visit the forums from time to time because I love you all so much.
Quick note: I'm on medical leave. The surgeon has not cleared me to return to work. I just happen to be able to browse the internet while recovering, which allows me to visit the forums from time to time because I love you all so much.
We work for a living, it should never be the other way around.
So please take as much time as you need...and is possible in this world.
You only got one health after all.
Take care.:)
I just want the option to have an Android Science Officer. If I could get that, I'd be interested. Otherwise, not much.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Well.. That or you could look at it as evidence that they don't have any confidence that anyone who buys the LTS now will have a game to play in 1000 days.
I know this is slightly petty, but I'd like to point out that I play STO using a storyline in my head which includes the female android variant. I feel increasingly frustrated that they haven't given us the option yet as I'm (not literally) dying to get it!!
(I'll probably not complain about anything the devs do for months just out of cheer joy xD)
Now I understand Cryptic is working on this so I'll be patient I guess?? I just hope it isn't forgotten and still on the table for the forseeable future.
I know this is slightly petty, but I'd like to point out that I play STO using a storyline in my head which includes the female android variant. I feel increasingly frustrated that they haven't given us the option yet as I'm (not literally) dying to get it!!
(I'll probably not complain about anything the devs do for months just out of cheer joy xD)
Now I understand Cryptic is working on this so I'll be patient I guess?? I just hope it isn't forgotten and still on the table for the forseeable future.
I'm in a similar boat. I'm still waiting for a female Android variant to portray an excursionary extension of my ship's AI. In the meantime, I'm using a female science ALIEN with some 7of9 costume parts to stand in for it.
Ah, excellent. I'm not the only captain who is pro-sentient AI on starships then ^^. (Let's face it, we've all played too much Mass Effect xD) But yes *sigh* If only the devs would make my dream come true ....
The Liberated Borg BOFF you unlock when doing Khitomer Accords. It's been in game since Khitomer Accords were added nearly a year and a half ago.
And yes, its still there with the new F2P STF revamp.
I got this guy when I was F2P when one of my fleetmate ran me through the STF. I thought it was awesome to get a reward like that. The only problem I have with this BOFF is that he doesn't wear any pants, and I can't change anything about him like I can the android BOFF. The Jem'Hadar BOFF is the same way. They come as they are. I would like to see an option that would allow me to at least change the uniform on these guys so that they would match the rest of my crew. A naked borg dude running around just isn't cool. I've restricted him to the brig until he learns to wear pants, and the Jem'Hadar dude is now on a 12 step program for his crack addiction.
Quick note: I'm on medical leave. The surgeon has not cleared me to return to work. I just happen to be able to browse the internet while recovering, which allows me to visit the forums from time to time because I love you all so much.
Jesse, good to hear from you, and I'm glad you're on the mend. I sincerely send wishes of speedy recovery!
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
Ah, excellent. I'm not the only captain who is pro-sentient AI on starships then ^^. (Let's face it, we've all played too much Mass Effect xD) But yes *sigh* If only the devs would make my dream come true ....
Well, yes and no. Mostly no. I'm actually against uses of "sentient" AI such as the likes portrayed by Data and Voyager's EMH Doctor. While those are probably my favorite characters on their respective shows, it's really a testament to the actors portraying them, not the characters themselves. If Brent Spiner had been playing an alien, or Robert Picardo playing a regular human doctor, they still would have been my favorite characters.
My ship's AI excursionary extension is just that: an extension of the ship's AI that I can take on away teams to perform as an additional party member. I wouldn't really call it "sentient" any more than I like to personify my car. I may have an affectionate name for it, and treat it as if it has a personality of its own, but I know its still a machine and don't make any allusions otherwise.
The character concepts of Data and the EMH are two of the most fundamentally logic-starved ideas I've ever seen portrayed in something labeled "sci-fi" and shows that the writers had barely any concept of how technology such as computers actually work; apparently even contemporary 1980's technology is sufficiently advanced as to be indistinguishable from magic for Star Trek writers.
Well, yes and no. Mostly no. I'm actually against uses of "sentient" AI such as the likes portrayed by Data and Voyager's EMH Doctor. While those are probably my favorite characters on their respective shows, it's really a testament to the actors portraying them, not the characters themselves. If Brent Spiner had been playing an alien, or Robert Picardo playing a regular human doctor, they still would have been my favorite characters.
My ship's AI excursionary extension is just that: an extension of the ship's AI that I can take on away teams to perform as an additional party member. I wouldn't really call it "sentient" any more than I like to personify my car. I may have an affectionate name for it, and treat it as if it has a personality of its own, but I know its still a machine and don't make any allusions otherwise.
The character concepts of Data and the EMH are two of the most fundamentally logic-starved ideas I've ever seen portrayed in something labeled "sci-fi" and shows that the writers had barely any concept of how technology such as computers actually work; apparently even contemporary 1980's technology is sufficiently advanced as to be indistinguishable from magic for Star Trek writers.
Ah, I see. Well, I don't ENTIRELY agree there. I think the addition of a 'synthetic' crewmember is a wonderful idea and allows for serious debate on the definition of life (as we've come to know it from Star Trek). However I do believe they could have made them more 'different' or 'exotic'. Not in appearence, but mostly in how they think and act. Data did actually quite well there, but of course he had limits as his android body was extremely human. The Doctor not so much .... he was waaay too human for a computerprogram and the idea could have been so much more.
I'm oversimplifying and not explaining my point very well actually *sigh*.
Well my idea is that 'what if' you have a sentient AI plugged into the main computer core. The ship would still function as any other starship with the main computer handling all menial tasks in Mayel Barret's voice. But crewmembers could ask for additional help at any terminal from the ship's AI, eliminating the sometimes ridiculous scenes in Star Trek where a crewmember without technical expertise keeps asking the computer questions like 'computer, is there any way to eliminate the 500 kazon warrior's that boarded voyager?' .... I mean, really?
Imagine if you will if you're a vice-admiral explaining this to starfleet. The idea does have merit. If the ship is boarded the ship itself can take action (and since all ships these days are filled with holo-emitters, a creative AI could generate everything from illusions to a holographic defense force, anesthizine gas traps, forcefields .... you name it. Which kinda makes the whole mission with facility 4028 a bit of a joke.) Out-of-combat it could help solve glitches and problems, run complex diagnostics, actively help scientists analyze dangerous technology and look for solutions .... Also unlike the Doctor this AI could talk to 100 people at the same time with relative ease as computers are essentially great at multitasking (depending on processing power). On away missions it could remotely control an android version of itself to assist even.
Of course the major downside is if the AI goes rogue and starts killing everyone on board at which point I hope everyone brought cake to appease it.
It would make an interesting story arc in my opinion.
Imagine if you will if you're a vice-admiral explaining this to starfleet. The idea does have merit. If the ship is boarded the ship itself can take action (and since all ships these days are filled with holo-emitters, a creative AI could generate everything from illusions to a holographic defense force, anesthizine gas traps, forcefields .... you name it. Which kinda makes the whole mission with facility 4028 a bit of a joke.) Out-of-combat it could help solve glitches and problems, run complex diagnostics, actively help scientists analyze dangerous technology and look for solutions .... Also unlike the Doctor this AI could talk to 100 people at the same time with relative ease as computers are essentially great at multitasking (depending on processing power). On away missions it could remotely control an android version of itself to assist even.
Of course the major downside is if the AI goes rogue and starts killing everyone on board at which point I hope everyone brought cake to appease it.
It would make an interesting story arc in my opinion.
I'm oversimplifying and not explaining my point very well actually *sigh*.
No, I think you've explained your point of view fairly well. I get it, you *want* to have sentient AI on board your ship. I don't.
Although my main point of contention with Data is that he's a "Pinocchio character", I think Data was better portrayed as an AI system than the EMH, until he starts plugging into the Enterprise mainframe. In early episodes he was able to simply "plug in" and interface directly with the computer (and/or other intelligences "inhabiting" it {ARGH IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY}). Later in the series, the ship starts going haywire while he's plugged into it. In both of these situations, it ignores the fact that ship computers already use some of the most advanced AI known in existence. It may not behave in a "sentient" manner, but it is much more capable than any other system. It is also not a "mystery" as to how it works... unless the people of the 24th century are completely inept at understanding the technology they work with on a daily basis (again, I blame writers that apparently don't understand the technology they work with on a daily basis). And if it is a "mystery", WHY DO THEY HAVE IT RUNNING ALL THEIR SYSTEMS?!? If Data is able to interface directly with Enterprise, why isn't he always directly interfaced? Why does he even walk around in a self-contained body instead of just "being" the ship?
The EMH concept is so flawed I don't even know where to begin. Actually nevermind, I do. In TNG, they took a great concept for a device (holodeck) and twisted it to do something completely wrong, then carried that error forward and multiplied it in Voyager.
The initial concept for the Holodeck was surprisingly well thought out. On long voyages, crew being cooped up in enclosed areas (no matter how ridiculously huge the Galaxy class passenger liner already is) would need an area to escape, an area where they could at least create the illusion of being somewhere else. The holodeck can create those environments, and even customize the views to show individuals in the same room different images to create an illusion of space and motion. It can even use replicator technology to create the items the crew interacts with or even food and drink. However, the holodeck relies on the ship's computer system to create and run all of these illusions. Everything you see and interact with in the holodeck is the doing of the ship's computer. It's a giant puppet show being run by the ship's computer. Where it starts to go wrong is when people start using it to make other AI's. It's one thing to make AIs that perform as NPCs in video games. But then they start making actual self-aware, sentient AIs, and that's where it all starts to fall apart.
When we first start to see people being simulated on the holodeck, they are relatively simple, behave with defined reactions to given inputs, not too different from today's video game NPCs. And that's fine. The important thing is that they don't do what they're not programmed to do. Then Geordie has a brilliant idea to give Data an actual challenging opponent in their "Sherlock Holmes" video game and creates Moriarty. What the writers gave us is a story where Man is trounced by technology of his own making because "we know not what power we wield" anti-technology tripe. There are several other technological inconsistencies in these stories because 1) It's the ship's computer system that's running these programs. Not the programs running themselves. Programs are just software, lines of instructions and data storage. Your web browser doesn't run itself, your computer runs it. All the "beings" created by the holodeck are being run by the ship's computer. Moriarty would technically BE an extension of the Enterprise ship's computer system. And even Moriarty would also not be "just" Moriarty, he would be a part of the entire Sherlock Holmes program, not unlike how the Manus of Borg character that we, as players, interact with in Infected is part of the Star Trek Online program. Lines of code being run on a server processor on a machine, instructing the machine to provide outputs based on given inputs.
Well my idea is that 'what if' you have a sentient AI plugged into the main computer core. The ship would still function as any other starship with the main computer handling all menial tasks in Mayel Barret's voice. But crewmembers could ask for additional help at any terminal from the ship's AI, eliminating the sometimes ridiculous scenes in Star Trek where a crewmember without technical expertise keeps asking the computer questions like 'computer, is there any way to eliminate the 500 kazon warrior's that boarded voyager?' .... I mean, really?
Imagine if you will if you're a vice-admiral explaining this to starfleet. The idea does have merit. If the ship is boarded the ship itself can take action (and since all ships these days are filled with holo-emitters, a creative AI could generate everything from illusions to a holographic defense force, anesthizine gas traps, forcefields .... you name it. Which kinda makes the whole mission with facility 4028 a bit of a joke.) Out-of-combat it could help solve glitches and problems, run complex diagnostics, actively help scientists analyze dangerous technology and look for solutions .... Also unlike the Doctor this AI could talk to 100 people at the same time with relative ease as computers are essentially great at multitasking (depending on processing power). On away missions it could remotely control an android version of itself to assist even.
Of course the major downside is if the AI goes rogue and starts killing everyone on board at which point I hope everyone brought cake to appease it.
It would make an interesting story arc in my opinion.
This is also essentially what I'm using for my own personal character's "story", with the exception that yours is "sentient" and mine is "not sentient". Roddenberry also used this concept in "Andromeda", and while I think it was a much better representation than Star Trek, it was still a little incredulous (Rommie being able to run the entire ship by herself, only actually needing biological life to navigate the slipstream nodes). They justified it a little by making Rommie's drones not quite as capable as real flesh-and-blood crew, and taking some attention to run them all at the same time in an attempt to simulate the distribution of processing power, but still...
My issue with sentient AIs is that it completely eliminates the need for biological sentient life in Star Trek. I don't see any way around it. If you have computers able to create hundreds of "sentient" holographic instances at a time and able to run entire ships autonomously, why even bother with holographic representations? Why make ships that are able to even support crew (your ship can't be boarded if there is no place for boarders to board)? Why even have people (Humans, Klingons, Vulcans, whatever) exploring space? If you can have AIs running entire manufacturing and resource gathering facilities, why even have people running these operations on the ground? Why even have people at all?
You know that was also a point I had to mull over a little. Bear in mind that I haven't seen an episode of Andromeda in my life and have no idea what Rommie is. I got most of my concepts (if I can call them 'my' concepts, they've probably been thought of 1000x before) from looking at characters like EDI, GLaDOS, Data, the Doctor and some others.
Why have people at all?? From the biological point of view that's relatively simply as they've explained that in a Star Trek episode. Starfleet COULD explore space with probes. They just don't WANT to.
The AI's point of view is somewhat different as well, it's hard to think as one. There are, undoubtedly situations where the AI would not be able to maintain the ship. Even if it were to spawn holographic versions or replicate drones, .... considering the amount of 'freakiness' that exists in the Star Trek universe having some organic crewmembers on board is a good thing.
Still, what if it were to consider organic beings as slaves or tools?? Well, why assume the AI has evil intent at all. Organics are interesting and computers 'like' input, so having a living crew to interact with is well .... fun!! Besides, Starfleet is all about cooperation, peace, etc .... Qualities they might have want to 'teach' the AI before they plugged it into the next Odyssey class ship.
As for your views on Data and The Doctor, well Data being a pinocchio-character kind of makes sense as his creator was obsessed with making a synthetic as close to 'life' as possible. But yeah, there are moments where I go all facepalm.
The Doctor is just .... I mean they keep saying he is a collection of photons (light) and forcefields. Which would indicate that his consciousness is INSIDE the computer (and indeed if they want to disable him they shoot this panel in the wall). Yet there are a billion instances where he seems even more limited as Data. Especially when he starts talking to the main computer or creates another hologram because 'he doesn't have enough space to store all his medical programming' ....
Anyway I can just imagine the Starfleet crew being all scared about hostile AI takeovers (while it is always being very friendly) and then the Klingons get their hands on some of the basecode and start writing a more 'aggressive' version .... Ah, .... I should write this stuff down somewhere.
So now, does this small discussion expedite the release of the female/multiple class version of the 700 day android?? ^^
You know that was also a point I had to mull over a little. Bear in mind that I haven't seen an episode of Andromeda in my life and have no idea what Rommie is. I got most of my concepts (if I can call them 'my' concepts, they've probably been thought of 1000x before) from looking at characters like EDI, GLaDOS, Data, the Doctor and some others.
I highly recommend Andromeda. While it doesn't seem to be streaming on Netflix anymore, You may be able to snag some episodes on YouTube. Although some of the costuming and set design is a bit shoddy in the first season, it gets better, and it's an interesting universe. (albeit a little grandiose in the "Kevin Sorbo/Hercules and his ragtag crew of misfits flying around in a ship that's waaaaay too big for them saving the entire galaxy" department)
The AI's point of view is somewhat different as well, it's hard to think as one. There are, undoubtedly situations where the AI would not be able to maintain the ship. Even if it were to spawn holographic versions or replicate drones, .... considering the amount of 'freakiness' that exists in the Star Trek universe having some organic crewmembers on board is a good thing.
The fallacy that writers keep falling into over and over again is that they keep trying to give AI human attributes and motivations. They tell stories about AI's from the standpoint of "well, what would I do if I were a robot" without regard to the fact that *writers are not robots*. Understand that Artificial Intelligences are just that: *ARTIFICIAL*. If they were intelligences of actual beings, they would not be artificial. Artificial Intelligences are designed and manufactured (and in that sense could even be mass-produced). It may behave similar to an actual intelligence, but it isn't real. It's not the same thing. We're not some tribe of mystical alchemists binding spirits to form the soul of some animated golems, we're toolmakers creating machines to make our lives easier. Storytellers need to know the difference because when they don't, they just continue to perpetuate these old superstitions. And of all things, sci-fi should not be about perpetuating old wives tales and superstitions.
I believe it's also role of the characters EDI, Canal Vorfeed, and Cortana (To some extent). So it's not a new character type, but it would be interesting to see it through a Star Trek filter.
What I would like to see is a story arc involving an A.I. motivated by something other than human desires. And then it would be up to you to decide how to react to it.
What if HAL 9000 and Dave were forced to work together? Is it dangerous thing to be deactivated for the safety of all involved? Or is it worth reasoning with a machine to further a common goal? How would that have turned out? How would you handle that situation?
It's a question I'd like this game to give me the answer.
How exactly do you cliam your Android BOFF? I am well past 700 days and a lifer but I can't figure out where to get it. It's not in my BOFF que
Go to the BOff Selling Lady on ESD.
(Next to the Sick Bay..., when you are facing the doorway to SB she's on your left.)
It's near the bottom of her Boff List.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Comments
I bet after your return, a few liked Doctors and nurse/medic doffs will show up in the selection.
Especially a particular Nurse doffs that doesn't seem to make any player happy, a Nurse Ratchet if you will.
Registered: Oct/2009 , LTS : Feb/2011
Fleets: Warriors of the Phoenix, Kirian Industries[/SIGPIC]
Three years and still no Captain Klaa hair...
For what its worth (from someone you've never met and will likely never meet), I hope you get through the difficult time that your facing right now as quickly and as painlessly as possible.
Regards,
nynik
It's good to hear your voice. May you have a speedy recovery. Know that you're missed here, and not just for your skill set.
So glad to hear that your on the mend. When I heard about it via STOked Radio, I was shocked. Sorry to hear that such a thing had to happen while you were at Trek Vegas. And get well soon!
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Dude... sorry to hear that it got so bad that you needed a surgeon...
Hope ya didn't lose to much function of the leg...
I've worked in a hospital all my adult life, I have seen just how bad things like this can get.
All my prayers and hopes that you have a speedy and trouble-free recovery.
And come visit us here more often...,
Just so we can keep yer spirits up with our constant nagging and whining. :P
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Get well soon, man! 'Til then, take it easy.
~~ Jeslyn
We work for a living, it should never be the other way around.
So please take as much time as you need...and is possible in this world.
You only got one health after all.
Take care.:)
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Heh. Silver lining I guess.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Well.. That or you could look at it as evidence that they don't have any confidence that anyone who buys the LTS now will have a game to play in 1000 days.
More the merrier. :P
(I'll probably not complain about anything the devs do for months just out of cheer joy xD)
Now I understand Cryptic is working on this so I'll be patient I guess?? I just hope it isn't forgotten and still on the table for the forseeable future.
I'm in a similar boat. I'm still waiting for a female Android variant to portray an excursionary extension of my ship's AI. In the meantime, I'm using a female science ALIEN with some 7of9 costume parts to stand in for it.
Raptr profile
I got this guy when I was F2P when one of my fleetmate ran me through the STF. I thought it was awesome to get a reward like that. The only problem I have with this BOFF is that he doesn't wear any pants, and I can't change anything about him like I can the android BOFF. The Jem'Hadar BOFF is the same way. They come as they are. I would like to see an option that would allow me to at least change the uniform on these guys so that they would match the rest of my crew. A naked borg dude running around just isn't cool. I've restricted him to the brig until he learns to wear pants, and the Jem'Hadar dude is now on a 12 step program for his crack addiction.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
Well, yes and no. Mostly no. I'm actually against uses of "sentient" AI such as the likes portrayed by Data and Voyager's EMH Doctor. While those are probably my favorite characters on their respective shows, it's really a testament to the actors portraying them, not the characters themselves. If Brent Spiner had been playing an alien, or Robert Picardo playing a regular human doctor, they still would have been my favorite characters.
My ship's AI excursionary extension is just that: an extension of the ship's AI that I can take on away teams to perform as an additional party member. I wouldn't really call it "sentient" any more than I like to personify my car. I may have an affectionate name for it, and treat it as if it has a personality of its own, but I know its still a machine and don't make any allusions otherwise.
The character concepts of Data and the EMH are two of the most fundamentally logic-starved ideas I've ever seen portrayed in something labeled "sci-fi" and shows that the writers had barely any concept of how technology such as computers actually work; apparently even contemporary 1980's technology is sufficiently advanced as to be indistinguishable from magic for Star Trek writers.
Raptr profile
Ah, I see. Well, I don't ENTIRELY agree there. I think the addition of a 'synthetic' crewmember is a wonderful idea and allows for serious debate on the definition of life (as we've come to know it from Star Trek). However I do believe they could have made them more 'different' or 'exotic'. Not in appearence, but mostly in how they think and act. Data did actually quite well there, but of course he had limits as his android body was extremely human. The Doctor not so much .... he was waaay too human for a computerprogram and the idea could have been so much more.
I'm oversimplifying and not explaining my point very well actually *sigh*.
Well my idea is that 'what if' you have a sentient AI plugged into the main computer core. The ship would still function as any other starship with the main computer handling all menial tasks in Mayel Barret's voice. But crewmembers could ask for additional help at any terminal from the ship's AI, eliminating the sometimes ridiculous scenes in Star Trek where a crewmember without technical expertise keeps asking the computer questions like 'computer, is there any way to eliminate the 500 kazon warrior's that boarded voyager?' .... I mean, really?
Imagine if you will if you're a vice-admiral explaining this to starfleet. The idea does have merit. If the ship is boarded the ship itself can take action (and since all ships these days are filled with holo-emitters, a creative AI could generate everything from illusions to a holographic defense force, anesthizine gas traps, forcefields .... you name it. Which kinda makes the whole mission with facility 4028 a bit of a joke.) Out-of-combat it could help solve glitches and problems, run complex diagnostics, actively help scientists analyze dangerous technology and look for solutions .... Also unlike the Doctor this AI could talk to 100 people at the same time with relative ease as computers are essentially great at multitasking (depending on processing power). On away missions it could remotely control an android version of itself to assist even.
Of course the major downside is if the AI goes rogue and starts killing everyone on board at which point I hope everyone brought cake to appease it.
It would make an interesting story arc in my opinion.
So you are talking about Rommie from Andromeda.
No, I think you've explained your point of view fairly well. I get it, you *want* to have sentient AI on board your ship. I don't.
Although my main point of contention with Data is that he's a "Pinocchio character", I think Data was better portrayed as an AI system than the EMH, until he starts plugging into the Enterprise mainframe. In early episodes he was able to simply "plug in" and interface directly with the computer (and/or other intelligences "inhabiting" it {ARGH IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY}). Later in the series, the ship starts going haywire while he's plugged into it. In both of these situations, it ignores the fact that ship computers already use some of the most advanced AI known in existence. It may not behave in a "sentient" manner, but it is much more capable than any other system. It is also not a "mystery" as to how it works... unless the people of the 24th century are completely inept at understanding the technology they work with on a daily basis (again, I blame writers that apparently don't understand the technology they work with on a daily basis). And if it is a "mystery", WHY DO THEY HAVE IT RUNNING ALL THEIR SYSTEMS?!? If Data is able to interface directly with Enterprise, why isn't he always directly interfaced? Why does he even walk around in a self-contained body instead of just "being" the ship?
The EMH concept is so flawed I don't even know where to begin. Actually nevermind, I do. In TNG, they took a great concept for a device (holodeck) and twisted it to do something completely wrong, then carried that error forward and multiplied it in Voyager.
The initial concept for the Holodeck was surprisingly well thought out. On long voyages, crew being cooped up in enclosed areas (no matter how ridiculously huge the Galaxy class passenger liner already is) would need an area to escape, an area where they could at least create the illusion of being somewhere else. The holodeck can create those environments, and even customize the views to show individuals in the same room different images to create an illusion of space and motion. It can even use replicator technology to create the items the crew interacts with or even food and drink. However, the holodeck relies on the ship's computer system to create and run all of these illusions. Everything you see and interact with in the holodeck is the doing of the ship's computer. It's a giant puppet show being run by the ship's computer. Where it starts to go wrong is when people start using it to make other AI's. It's one thing to make AIs that perform as NPCs in video games. But then they start making actual self-aware, sentient AIs, and that's where it all starts to fall apart.
When we first start to see people being simulated on the holodeck, they are relatively simple, behave with defined reactions to given inputs, not too different from today's video game NPCs. And that's fine. The important thing is that they don't do what they're not programmed to do. Then Geordie has a brilliant idea to give Data an actual challenging opponent in their "Sherlock Holmes" video game and creates Moriarty. What the writers gave us is a story where Man is trounced by technology of his own making because "we know not what power we wield" anti-technology tripe. There are several other technological inconsistencies in these stories because 1) It's the ship's computer system that's running these programs. Not the programs running themselves. Programs are just software, lines of instructions and data storage. Your web browser doesn't run itself, your computer runs it. All the "beings" created by the holodeck are being run by the ship's computer. Moriarty would technically BE an extension of the Enterprise ship's computer system. And even Moriarty would also not be "just" Moriarty, he would be a part of the entire Sherlock Holmes program, not unlike how the Manus of Borg character that we, as players, interact with in Infected is part of the Star Trek Online program. Lines of code being run on a server processor on a machine, instructing the machine to provide outputs based on given inputs.
This is also essentially what I'm using for my own personal character's "story", with the exception that yours is "sentient" and mine is "not sentient". Roddenberry also used this concept in "Andromeda", and while I think it was a much better representation than Star Trek, it was still a little incredulous (Rommie being able to run the entire ship by herself, only actually needing biological life to navigate the slipstream nodes). They justified it a little by making Rommie's drones not quite as capable as real flesh-and-blood crew, and taking some attention to run them all at the same time in an attempt to simulate the distribution of processing power, but still...
My issue with sentient AIs is that it completely eliminates the need for biological sentient life in Star Trek. I don't see any way around it. If you have computers able to create hundreds of "sentient" holographic instances at a time and able to run entire ships autonomously, why even bother with holographic representations? Why make ships that are able to even support crew (your ship can't be boarded if there is no place for boarders to board)? Why even have people (Humans, Klingons, Vulcans, whatever) exploring space? If you can have AIs running entire manufacturing and resource gathering facilities, why even have people running these operations on the ground? Why even have people at all?
Raptr profile
Why have people at all?? From the biological point of view that's relatively simply as they've explained that in a Star Trek episode. Starfleet COULD explore space with probes. They just don't WANT to.
The AI's point of view is somewhat different as well, it's hard to think as one. There are, undoubtedly situations where the AI would not be able to maintain the ship. Even if it were to spawn holographic versions or replicate drones, .... considering the amount of 'freakiness' that exists in the Star Trek universe having some organic crewmembers on board is a good thing.
Still, what if it were to consider organic beings as slaves or tools?? Well, why assume the AI has evil intent at all. Organics are interesting and computers 'like' input, so having a living crew to interact with is well .... fun!! Besides, Starfleet is all about cooperation, peace, etc .... Qualities they might have want to 'teach' the AI before they plugged it into the next Odyssey class ship.
As for your views on Data and The Doctor, well Data being a pinocchio-character kind of makes sense as his creator was obsessed with making a synthetic as close to 'life' as possible. But yeah, there are moments where I go all facepalm.
The Doctor is just .... I mean they keep saying he is a collection of photons (light) and forcefields. Which would indicate that his consciousness is INSIDE the computer (and indeed if they want to disable him they shoot this panel in the wall). Yet there are a billion instances where he seems even more limited as Data. Especially when he starts talking to the main computer or creates another hologram because 'he doesn't have enough space to store all his medical programming' ....
Anyway I can just imagine the Starfleet crew being all scared about hostile AI takeovers (while it is always being very friendly) and then the Klingons get their hands on some of the basecode and start writing a more 'aggressive' version .... Ah, .... I should write this stuff down somewhere.
So now, does this small discussion expedite the release of the female/multiple class version of the 700 day android?? ^^
The fallacy that writers keep falling into over and over again is that they keep trying to give AI human attributes and motivations. They tell stories about AI's from the standpoint of "well, what would I do if I were a robot" without regard to the fact that *writers are not robots*. Understand that Artificial Intelligences are just that: *ARTIFICIAL*. If they were intelligences of actual beings, they would not be artificial. Artificial Intelligences are designed and manufactured (and in that sense could even be mass-produced). It may behave similar to an actual intelligence, but it isn't real. It's not the same thing. We're not some tribe of mystical alchemists binding spirits to form the soul of some animated golems, we're toolmakers creating machines to make our lives easier. Storytellers need to know the difference because when they don't, they just continue to perpetuate these old superstitions. And of all things, sci-fi should not be about perpetuating old wives tales and superstitions.
It at least keeps this topic on the front page to keep everyone aware of it (and hopefully the devs too).
Raptr profile
I believe it's also role of the characters EDI, Canal Vorfeed, and Cortana (To some extent). So it's not a new character type, but it would be interesting to see it through a Star Trek filter.
What I would like to see is a story arc involving an A.I. motivated by something other than human desires. And then it would be up to you to decide how to react to it.
What if HAL 9000 and Dave were forced to work together? Is it dangerous thing to be deactivated for the safety of all involved? Or is it worth reasoning with a machine to further a common goal? How would that have turned out? How would you handle that situation?
It's a question I'd like this game to give me the answer.
That said, I would take R2D2 over Data any day.
That's the primary thing missing from Star Trek, cool robots, and that's why Star Wars will always be better. (And I love Star Trek)
Go to the BOff Selling Lady on ESD.
(Next to the Sick Bay..., when you are facing the doorway to SB she's on your left.)
It's near the bottom of her Boff List.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Excellent Thank you muchly
Yer muchly welcome...
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion