while his numbers might be off for his Cruiser he does have a valid point, try thinking OUTSIDE the box occasionally sure apparently for now DPS is the thing... but if someone can strip you of all your buffs then your Tac DPS is just as worthless.... again try thinking OUTSIDE the box...
Major Xi'Zzin I.R.W. Raptor's Claw Storm Eagle Class WarbirdFleet Ha'feh I have never trusted humans, and I never will
while his numbers might be off for his Cruiser he does have a valid point, try thinking OUTSIDE the box occasionally sure apparently for now DPS is the thing... but if someone can strip you of all your buffs then your Tac DPS is just as worthless.... again try thinking OUTSIDE the box...
Well, that's just called Subnucleonic Beam. And very much inside the box (of any half-way competent sci officer).
Now to derail my own thread even more. This is the tac oddy build that I made that is actually much higher damage output than my old ac build, and sufficed to say after flying this it has made me SERIOUSLY reconsider what I said before about cruisers being a joke.
Probably still needs work, and I am kinda at a loss as to what to do with my extra ensign tac slot on my lt tac, since I already have the two purple conn officers that reduce CD on tt1. Also the double transfer shields, it seems to work ok, but I think I need to change that. As you can see though, I removed that excess of EPtX that I had earlier on the original sci oddy build, and replaced it with a RSP. Hopefully that increases survivability without losing out on too much damage? Not sure, hence why I am asking.
As for skills, I did some research and found out that putting 9 points into a lot of skills is excessive since the bonus is just not really worth it (esp the X performance, you can spec only 7 points in and only lose 1 power). So I did some mods, haven't actually put them into practice yet (respec tokens expensive lol), but was just checking to see viability first. So I modified the space skills some. Ground skills you can pretty much ignore.
As for builds, here is what I run (basically going for maximum damage output):
Fore Weapons: AP BA mk XII [crth][acc][borg]x3 Quantum Torpedo Launcher mk XII [crth][acc][borg] (would be open to changing that, and don't have the regent so can't get the 180 torp)
Aft Weapons: Clone of Fore Weapons (also open to changes)
Shields: MACO Resilient Shield Array mk XII (for the proc and cuz they are just really good shields)
Deflector: MACO Graviton Deflector mk XII (for the increased tankiness and the 2 piece MACO bonus, which actually works well on a cruiser imo, would use the 3 piece borg set but I just can't justify replacing the MACO deflector with the borg one, the bonuses just can't really compare to me)
Engines: Assimilated Subtranswarp Engines (for the +5 engine power bonus and the 2 piece borg bonus)
Devices: Subspace Field Modulator (don't have the deuterium surplus (yet, been busy IRL) or red matter capacitor or would use them as well) (also possibly going to use batteries even though I am not specced in them, but I have a ton lying around)
Tactical Consoles: AP Mag Regulator mk XII (uncommon, and one common, anything rarer is expensive and my ECs are a little low atm)
Engineering Consoles: Neutronium Alloy mk XI (rare, still can't afford the mk XII rares or very rares yet, but working on it)
Science Consoles: Field Generator mk XII (uncommon, again still can't afford better at this point... TRIBBLE so damn expensive lol), Assimilated Module (for two piece bonus and it's overall pretty much universal usefulness), Chevron Separation Module (for it's obvious offensive capabilities)
DOffs: Unchanged from original post in other threads. Ah hell, why not a refresher.
Conn Officer (TT reducer and AP booster)(purple)x2
Technician (BOff ability cd reduction)(purple)
(EPtX cd reducer DOff)(purple)x2
Soooooo yeah, hopefully a tad better?
Input wanted
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Well, that's just called Subnucleonic Beam. And very much inside the box (of any half-way competent sci officer).
seriously there are other ways to debuff a target OTHER than Sub Nuc, certain weapons have a Debuf, Disruptors spring to mind here but yes sub nuc is pretty much the bread and butter of ANY compitent Sci build...
still have to thing outside the box on your build not just accuse me of being inside the box because I use 1 inherent sci ability... depending on which ship and loadout I take depends on what my team needs me to do... so you are saying that you build your ships around your inherent Captain abilities ? that is definately not thinking outside the box it perpepuates the cycle of this ship sux cryptic/PWE needs to fix it
Major Xi'Zzin I.R.W. Raptor's Claw Storm Eagle Class WarbirdFleet Ha'feh I have never trusted humans, and I never will
If you believe the cruiser is relinquished to a submissive role as healer/tank, then you sir have an incredibly narrow mind.
My little excelsior, which is an engineering ship, has more firepower than virtually every tac officer I've come across (yes I've compared the DPS in battles). To sit and whine about "cruisers are awful, ugh why can't they be retooled?" Means you can't think beyond what's laid in front of you. Know the roles of the ships and figure out what can be tweaked to make them better.
All this sounds like is you wanting a God ship out of a cruiser when even in the shows Enterprise (which is a cruiser!) got it's TRIBBLE handed to it on multiple occasions, only by the Captain THINKING BEYOND WHAT HE HAS did he win with his cruiser. So stop whinning and use that mush inside that stone you call a head and starting working on your ship.
I'm sorry, but are you putting the NX-01 enterprise in the same "cruiser" category as all other star trek ships? Cause that's pretty ridiculous. It was an experimental, pre-federation ship that didn't have photon torpedoes for what... half the series? It only had a couple "phase cannons," note, those are primitive precursors to "phasers." And the ship didn't even have shields. In no way, shape, or form, can that ship be compared to the rest of the star trek cruisers or used to justify cruisers needing to suck, lol.
while his numbers might be off for his Cruiser he does have a valid point, try thinking OUTSIDE the box occasionally sure apparently for now DPS is the thing... but if someone can strip you of all your buffs then your Tac DPS is just as worthless.... again try thinking OUTSIDE the box...
Last I checked, those subnuke doffs are incredibly expensive, well outside the budget for most of the player base... so are you suggesting that all of the cruiser's problems can be solved by throwing billions of EC at the problem? Lol... Also, those doffs aren't limited to cruiser/sci ship use, so a escort can load up on them and just pwn your face even harder... so once again, escort trumps all.
Still, it's not undieable. A great deal depends on your team mates too. If all pull their weight, that Elite STF goes like a breeze. If, however, you're the only one pulling the wagon, as it were, and you're barely, but still, tanking a Borg cube in front (dual Tact Team and dual EPtS), and you suddenly get sidled or afted as well (can you use 'aft' as a verb?) by several spheres on your now weakened other facings, then you simply *will* die.
Also, cruisers have plenty more hull than their escort counterparts. Which makes escorts vulnerable to kinetic damage, far more so than a cruiser. Everyone who's ever been in an Elite STF will know this. Even with 3x Neutronium Alloy, you can maybe hope to take 1 hit of a heavy Borg plasma torp, but that's about it (preferably you should shoot them down first, of course, but I digress).
Also, escorts can't deal with hefty isometric charges too well, either (nobody can really tank for electric when it comes down it to, but escorts feel direct assaults on their hull just more pronouncedly).
So, escort, good tanky DD, but not invincible.
I have been hearing that putting points into threat control is more efficient than putting points into the engineer resist skills. Supposedly it grants about the same amount of bonus to kinetic/all energy resist as you would get from the two engi skills. Though you'll also be saddled with the extra attention from enemies.
Also, try positioning yourself above or below the cube, then you are out of their torp arcs.
As many others previous authors had detailed. All these different set pieces. To the devs and the powers that be at STO high command, what good is it creating whole sets that players only use pieces of. Just create balanced sets in the first place.
Also Cruiser Engineering Captains have been laughed at for to long. Please give cruisers some strength back. Some of us don't mind healing, but would also love to do some damage at the same time. If you are going to cruse us with the lowest turn rate in the fleet then fine give use some teeth to fight back! The Regent class does not count too!
Now to derail my own thread even more. This is the tac oddy build that I made that is actually much higher damage output than my old ac build, and sufficed to say after flying this it has made me SERIOUSLY reconsider what I said before about cruisers being a joke.
Probably still needs work, and I am kinda at a loss as to what to do with my extra ensign tac slot on my lt tac, since I already have the two purple conn officers that reduce CD on tt1. Also the double transfer shields, it seems to work ok, but I think I need to change that. As you can see though, I removed that excess of EPtX that I had earlier on the original sci oddy build, and replaced it with a RSP. Hopefully that increases survivability without losing out on too much damage? Not sure, hence why I am asking.
As for skills, I did some research and found out that putting 9 points into a lot of skills is excessive since the bonus is just not really worth it (esp the X performance, you can spec only 7 points in and only lose 1 power). So I did some mods, haven't actually put them into practice yet (respec tokens expensive lol), but was just checking to see viability first. So I modified the space skills some. Ground skills you can pretty much ignore.
As for builds, here is what I run (basically going for maximum damage output):
Fore Weapons: AP BA mk XII [crth][acc][borg]x3 Quantum Torpedo Launcher mk XII [crth][acc][borg] (would be open to changing that, and don't have the regent so can't get the 180 torp)
Aft Weapons: Clone of Fore Weapons (also open to changes)
Shields: MACO Resilient Shield Array mk XII (for the proc and cuz they are just really good shields)
Deflector: MACO Graviton Deflector mk XII (for the increased tankiness and the 2 piece MACO bonus, which actually works well on a cruiser imo, would use the 3 piece borg set but I just can't justify replacing the MACO deflector with the borg one, the bonuses just can't really compare to me)
Engines: Assimilated Subtranswarp Engines (for the +5 engine power bonus and the 2 piece borg bonus)
Devices: Subspace Field Modulator (don't have the deuterium surplus (yet, been busy IRL) or red matter capacitor or would use them as well) (also possibly going to use batteries even though I am not specced in them, but I have a ton lying around)
Tactical Consoles: AP Mag Regulator mk XII (uncommon, and one common, anything rarer is expensive and my ECs are a little low atm)
Engineering Consoles: Neutronium Alloy mk XI (rare, still can't afford the mk XII rares or very rares yet, but working on it)
Science Consoles: Field Generator mk XII (uncommon, again still can't afford better at this point... TRIBBLE so damn expensive lol), Assimilated Module (for two piece bonus and it's overall pretty much universal usefulness), Chevron Separation Module (for it's obvious offensive capabilities)
DOffs: Unchanged from original post in other threads. Ah hell, why not a refresher.
Conn Officer (TT reducer and AP booster)(purple)x2
Technician (BOff ability cd reduction)(purple)
(EPtX cd reducer DOff)(purple)x2
Soooooo yeah, hopefully a tad better?
Input wanted
Is it just me, or does the link not work?
Anyway, here's my ody/bortas build when I fly a cruiser.
Tac/Sci Ody
(fore weapons)
1 x MK XII Anti-borg quantum torpedo launcher/ 3 x MK XII Anti-borg Phaser array
(aft weapons)
1 x MK XII Anti-borg quantum torpedo launcher/ 3 x MK XII Anti-borg Phaser array
(deflector/engine/shield)
Borg Deflector
Borg Engine
Maco MK XII shield
(engineering)
Borg universal console/MK XI Blue Neutronium/ MK XI Blue Neutronium/Mk XI Blue Neutronium
(science)
Saucer sep console/MK XI Blue Emitter Array/MK XI Blue Emitter Array/MK XI Blue Emitter Array (3 emitters for sci 2 for tac ody, I find the increased shield heals work better for me than increased shield capacity)
(tactical)
MK XI Blue Phaser Relay/MK XI Blue Phaser Relay/MK XI Blue Phaser relay (3 for tac ody 2 on sci ody) And some times I switch out for equivalent arrays/consoles for antiproton.
Boff skills:
(Ltc.Cmdr. Universal)
Tac Team 1/Torp spread 2/ Torp spread 3
(Ensign Universal)
Emergency power to shields 1
(Lt. Tactical)
Beam Array Fire at Will 1/ Beam Array Fire at Will 2
(Commander Engineering)
Emergency Power to shields 1/Reverse Shield Polarity 1/ Reverse Shield Polarity 2/ Auxiliary Power to the Structural Integrity Field 3
(Lt. Science)
Hazard emitters 1/Sci Team 2
Doffs: 2xPurple Tac Team Doffs, 2xPurple Sci Team Doffs, 1xPurple Brace For Impact Doff.
I put sci team in there for pvp subnukes and because some times I need a shield heal and not distribution... tac team can't distribute shields when you don't have any left.
I have also used an all beam build where torp spread 2 and 3 would be replaced by attack patterns beta 1 and 2.
My bortas is pretty much the same as the ody, just with more tac consoles and fewer sci consoles. I don't use any of the bortas special consoles, and only use the saucer sep console on the ody so it can gain a reasonable turn rate.
Captain skills vary between my tac and engineer captain a bit, but generally:
For tactical skills, I don't have any points in threat control, I'm skilled for "general" weapons training, energy weapons and torp weapons and put points into accuracy. On my Tac captain he has full attack pattern skill
Engineering I have points for more power in all subsystems and better turn rate and speed and whatnot (without turn rate and speed points, the cruiser might as well be a space station) and it makes escorts even more zippy and maneuverable.
and in science I have points in the shield capacity and shield heal skills, though I probably could move some points around to put at least some into threat control.
I always do elite STF's, except I avoid cure as that one almost always fails if you're pugging it. Too many tards and I don't feel like wasting my time. I can tank tac cubes and the gates and Donatra, provided no one steals away agro, so I can do some decent damage if I position myself JUUUUUUUST right so that I try to get both fore and aft torp launchers and all six beams going. But, of course, I can also switch to an escort with cannons or beams and torps (escorts use beams and torps better as their maneuverability lets them quickly pop out a torp spread/volley and then quickly go back to full broadside.) hold agro, without losing too much durability or heal ability while also much more easily staying out of the enemy's best firing arcs. So, yeah, my cruiser is pretty good... for a cruiser. I usually use it when I don't feel like being QUITE so attentive to how much damage I'm taking, at the expense of feeling like a floating brick and more like I'm pecking away at enemies. But switching to an escort type vessel, I don't lose much in heal/tank, but gain a whole lot more in maneuverability and damage, regardless of if I'm in my engineer or tac captain.
I'd also like to point out that the fact that tac team is basically NECESSARY to survive in this game on elite/in pvp, while sci team and eng team are optional, further exemplifies how this game is clearly skewed toward escorts. And since many cruiser/sci vessels only have two tac skills and at least one of them has to be tac team... yeah.
I have been hearing that putting points into threat control is more efficient than putting points into the engineer resist skills. Supposedly it grants about the same amount of bonus to kinetic/all energy resist as you would get from the two engi skills. Though you'll also be saddled with the extra attention from enemies.
Also, try positioning yourself above or below the cube, then you are out of their torp arcs.
Hmm, I shall look that up. Thx.
Also, I've always assumed Cubes simply have a 360 arc, when it comes to torps (as they don't seem to have a front and such, either). Would be worthwhile to test that out, too.
Also, I've always assumed Cubes simply have a 360 arc, when it comes to torps (as they don't seem to have a front and such, either). Would be worthwhile to test that out, too.
They can hit you with torps from any lateral side, but if you park right on top/under them, then all you have to deal with is the beams.
I'd also like to point out that the fact that tac team is basically NECESSARY to survive in this game on elite/in pvp, while sci team and eng team are optional, further exemplifies how this game is clearly skewed toward escorts. And since many cruiser/sci vessels only have two tac skills and at least one of them has to be tac team... yeah.
^ this. I mean theres something wrong when a single skill is so Must have. it would actually balance the game more IMO if the Transfer shield from Tac Team was moved to Engineering team. But, that would hurt an escort, we cant have that.
^ this. I mean theres something wrong when a single skill is so Must have. it would actually balance the game more IMO if the Transfer shield from Tac Team was moved to Engineering team. But, that would hurt an escort, we cant have that.
Lol, think for a moment, chaining ET helps a ship do what? Heal hull. Do you have any idea of how much overhealing exists in the game already? No, I don't think you do. Have you considered what preemptively using ET to get a benefit from shield distribution does for ANY ship? It wastes ET actual effects or it wastes the shield distribution.
Nor do I think you've considered that even without doffs several escorts can already chain ET. Nevermind the damage and turning bonus that TT provides is of more value to a cruiser than to an escort.
Its pretty clear that TT was chosen for 2 reasons. The first is because its effects are meant to be used preemptively, while ET and ST are meant to be used after things happen... negating any benefit shield redistribution might offer. And second, because TTs benefits promote a more fun action-y gameplay (more ship agility and more dakka make for a more fun game than the yet another layer of defenses!).
I agree completely with the author of this post. The term escort itself implies that the ship is meant to supplement a different ship. There should be the cruisers that are the flagships of the battle, and escorts that have a different purpose somehow to escort and assist the cruisers, and the science ships as well...
I played a bit of Battlestar Galactica Online. It is a F2P game that is basically ship combat and farming resources. But, my point is that they have 3 rolls of ships as well, they have strike craft, escorts, and the flagship type ships (name eludes me at moment), and they have different rolls. The larger flagship has the potential to take out other large ships with missiles or whatever, while the strike craft go in guns blazing to take out missiles or lay some damage down on the bigger ship, the escorts roll is to help protect the larger ship during the battle.
Perhaps, if Star Trek Online had some similar set up for the ship balance. The cruisers with a distinctive roll as both tank and heavy damage dealer at long range, the escorts perhaps could go in to attack the cruisers, and the science ships built to have strengths vs the escorts ... or some other such arrangement.
But, I agree.... the fact that the escort is king and the cruiser and science ships are pretty much a joke is so frustrating that I hardly ever play anymore. Because I don't want to have to fly an escort with a tac officer. My first and main character is an engie in a cruiser... and that's what I want to play....
When you watch the series, you don't see the enterprise backing away from a fight with some small fighter craft... the understanding is that they outclass and have more firepower than the smaller ship. STO should have followed canon and found some other type of roll for the escorts and science ships so that all three would be viable.
Now to derail my own thread even more. This is the tac oddy build that I made that is actually much higher damage output than my old ac build, and sufficed to say after flying this it has made me SERIOUSLY reconsider what I said before about cruisers being a joke.
Probably still needs work, and I am kinda at a loss as to what to do with my extra ensign tac slot on my lt tac, since I already have the two purple conn officers that reduce CD on tt1. Also the double transfer shields, it seems to work ok, but I think I need to change that. As you can see though, I removed that excess of EPtX that I had earlier on the original sci oddy build, and replaced it with a RSP. Hopefully that increases survivability without losing out on too much damage? Not sure, hence why I am asking.
As for skills, I did some research and found out that putting 9 points into a lot of skills is excessive since the bonus is just not really worth it (esp the X performance, you can spec only 7 points in and only lose 1 power). So I did some mods, haven't actually put them into practice yet (respec tokens expensive lol), but was just checking to see viability first. So I modified the space skills some. Ground skills you can pretty much ignore.
As for builds, here is what I run (basically going for maximum damage output):
Fore Weapons: AP BA mk XII [crth][acc][borg]x3 Quantum Torpedo Launcher mk XII [crth][acc][borg] (would be open to changing that, and don't have the regent so can't get the 180 torp)
Aft Weapons: Clone of Fore Weapons (also open to changes)
Shields: MACO Resilient Shield Array mk XII (for the proc and cuz they are just really good shields)
Deflector: MACO Graviton Deflector mk XII (for the increased tankiness and the 2 piece MACO bonus, which actually works well on a cruiser imo, would use the 3 piece borg set but I just can't justify replacing the MACO deflector with the borg one, the bonuses just can't really compare to me)
Engines: Assimilated Subtranswarp Engines (for the +5 engine power bonus and the 2 piece borg bonus)
Devices: Subspace Field Modulator, Deuterium Surplus (don't have the red matter capacitor) (also possibly going to use batteries even though I am not specced in them, but I have a ton lying around)
Tactical Consoles: AP Mag Regulator mk XII (uncommon, and one common, anything rarer is expensive and my ECs are a little low atm)
Engineering Consoles: Neutronium Alloy mk XI (rare, still can't afford the mk XII rares or very rares yet, but working on it)
Science Consoles: Field Generator mk XII (uncommon, again still can't afford better at this point... TRIBBLE so damn expensive lol), Assimilated Module (for two piece bonus and it's overall pretty much universal usefulness), Chevron Separation Module (for it's obvious offensive capabilities)
DOffs: Unchanged from original post in other threads. Ah hell, why not a refresher.
Conn Officer (TT reducer and AP booster)(purple)x2
Technician (BOff ability cd reduction)(purple)
(EPtX cd reducer DOff)(purple)x2
As for skills, I did some research and found out that putting 9 points into a lot of skills is excessive since the bonus is just not really worth it (esp the X performance, you can spec only 7 points in and only lose 1 power). So I did some mods, haven't actually put them into practice yet (respec tokens expensive lol), but was just checking to see viability first. So I modified the space skills some. Ground skills you can pretty much ignore.
Let's focus on the skills. With all due respec-t, you need a respec. You put a lot ln Engineering Systems. Which is good, of course, but you did so at the expensive of Tactical Systems -- and a bit too much, IMHO. And some of it just really doesn't make sense. Let's take a look at some of these:
* You maxed out Starship Energy Weapons (good), but have nothing in Starship Energy Weapon Specialization. That, in itself, in not a big deal per se; except when you have 6 points in Starship Projectile Weapon Specialization, but NONE in Starship Projectile Weapons itself (is that a new thing or something, do a lot of 'crit', but no dmg?). So, since you seem to like BO and BFAW, I'd switch those 6 points in Starship Projectile Weapon Specialization over to Starship Energy Weapon Specialization, pronto.
* You have nothing in Starship Attack Patterns. Not a 'must-have' skill per se; but especially for us engineers, who can't do a lot of native dmg to begin with, having at least 3 points in it would help.
* You favor Starship Threat Control over Starship Maneuvers. Nothing wrong with that -- a choice.
Now, onto Engineering Systems itself:
* Lose Driver Coil, in its sorry entirety. It's the least useful skill of them all. And unless you plan to fy around doing the Tour of the Universe thingy a lot, ditch it for something far more useful.
* While it is true that maxing out everything into the reds is often excessive (after all, reds only give you an extra 5% each), Starship Electro-Plasma Systems, however, is generally considered a 'core' skill: you'll want 9 in that.
* Starship Engine Performance you can safely blank for your line of work (cruiser pilot).
* Starship Impulse Thrusters, I'd say, are a bit of must, especially for slow-turners. I'd max that.
* Starship Hull Plating and Starship Armor Reinforcements all maxed out seems good for tanking; but you can already tank very well. I gave each 6 points as a result (especially, considering you're spending no less than 9,000 (!) xp on those extra 3 reds for Starship Armor Reinforcements).
* Personally, I have zero in Starship Auxiliary Performance: we don't really need a lot surpus aux, we're engineers, not sci officers. If you absolutely must, I'd say no more than 1 or 2 points.
* As a Golden Rule, it is generally believed you can suffice having 6 points in Starship Warp Core Efficiency, but that you absolutely must have 9 in Starship Warp Core Potential. And this because Starship Warp Core Efficiency only kicks in when you're below 75% subsystem power levels, whereas Starship Warp Core Efficiency affects ALL your power levels, all the time (the metric may change if you do a lot of BO. In that case, having 9 in Starship Warp Core Efficiency is advised too).
* Get Starship Shield Performance to max. Preferably Starship Weapon Performance too; but, as I'm fond of saying, you can't have it all.
Now, as for Science and Operations Systems:
* Looks good. You have nothing in Starship Power Insulators, though. That can be dangerous, but it's not a deal-breaker per se.
Basically, as an engineer you want to find a good balance between what you were made for (tanking) and doing some stuff on the offensive too. I'd say, have a look at my own skills loadout:
Sci folk will, no doubt, have more in the Starship Particle Generators and Starship Graviton Generators departments and such; but for an engineer, I'm overall happy with my skill plan.
Lol, think for a moment, chaining ET helps a ship do what? Heal hull. Do you have any idea of how much overhealing exists in the game already? No, I don't think you do. Have you considered what preemptively using ET to get a benefit from shield distribution does for ANY ship? It wastes ET actual effects or it wastes the shield distribution.
Nor do I think you've considered that even without doffs several escorts can already chain ET. Nevermind the damage and turning bonus that TT provides is of more value to a cruiser than to an escort.
Its pretty clear that TT was chosen for 2 reasons. The first is because its effects are meant to be used preemptively, while ET and ST are meant to be used after things happen... negating any benefit shield redistribution might offer. And second, because TTs benefits promote a more fun action-y gameplay (more ship agility and more dakka make for a more fun game than the yet another layer of defenses!).
Sure, your right, sorry been about a week since I played and I dont use Engineering Team or Sci team because Chaining Tactical Team is all that really matters. Only reason I threw that out there was in a cruiser thers always PLENTY of engineering boff slots, that it would seem the best to put such an option there.
TT's turning bouns to a cruiser? lol. And an escort chaining engineering team means theyd have to give up EPTS chains. As it is, an escort gets it all. My random Idea would make them more Fragile. But, whatever.
STO, just needs to change their classification from escort, to Battleship. Look at the Pathetic Aquarious "Destroyer", yeah its like a shuttle, but will still be of more use in an engagement then a cruiser, or say a "Dreadnought"
STO, just needs to change their classification from escort, to Battleship. Look at the Pathetic Aquarious "Destroyer", yeah its like a shuttle, but will still be of more use in an engagement then a cruiser, or say a "Dreadnought"
But only changing the designation won't change anything.
The problem i see with Cryptics introduction of smaller and smaller escorts is that in the end we have small ships completely dominating Star Trek like they do in Star Wars.
I wouldn't want that, many years ago ther where so many space fighter simulations, i was sick of flying small space ships forever. There are still very few games that feature bigger ships without being a RTS. Seeing now the biggest Star Trek game dominated by (again) small flying guns is just annoying.
Cryptic should have made Space Combat mechanics much more tactic oriented and less action - dogfighting like.
Thank you for reading or ignoring, depending on who you are.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
..... The term escort itself implies that the ship is meant to supplement a different ship. There should be the cruisers that are the flagships of the battle, and escorts that have a different purpose somehow to escort and assist the cruisers, and the science ships as well...
.
..
They called them escorts because Starfleet was squeamish about calling them Warships.
STO, just needs to change their classification from escort, to Battleship. Look at the Pathetic Aquarious "Destroyer", yeah its like a shuttle, but will still be of more use in an engagement then a cruiser, or say a "Dreadnought"
This tells me you aren't even trying with your cruisers. So I can't help but question the validity of your observations.
But only changing the designation won't change anything.
The problem i see with Cryptics introduction of smaller and smaller escorts is that in the end we have small ships completely dominating Star Trek like they do in Star Wars.
I wouldn't want that, many years ago ther where so many space fighter simulations, i was sick of flying small space ships forever. There are still very few games that feature bigger ships without being a RTS. Seeing now the biggest Star Trek game dominated by (again) small flying guns is just annoying.
Cryptic should have made Space Combat mechanics much more tactic oriented and less action - dogfighting like.
Thank you for reading or ignoring, depending on who you are.
Not even Star Wars had the small ships dominating combat like STO has with "Escorts Online" now.
SWG actualy did space combat pretty well. X-Wings/Ties were fast, agile, and had some punch (if you ran RE-ed level 8 guns with the pre-NERF shields like I did - 10000/2756) but my gunboat was actualy something to see in PVP and PVE. It flew like the perverbial whale, wouldn't turn, couldn't follow anything, slow as the day is long, but could tank like you wouldn't even believe. (when they introed the gunboat they actualy made it's own shielding and armor to make sure it did that, you just needed a maxed out shipwright with the right suit, right buffs, the absolute best materials, and a little luck at crafting to get them that good) With it's 6 Null bolts (the best and highest damage guns in the game, mine were 100 max damage with 99% min damage) and 2 RE-ed level 10s, nothing wanted to get withing the sights of that thing as well. (But in order to fly the gunboat well, you needed a full group of 8 good players to do it to it's absolute advantage.)
Dan Stahl and Cryptic could take some pointers from T2 and SWG and make STO a boat-load better and more balanced game in PVE and PVP. But, I believe the best we can hope for is that Cryptic comes to believe that we will all spend money on a P2W crusier. In that case, we'd probably see 1 or 2 in a lockbox tomorrow.
* Personally, I have zero in Starship Auxiliary Performance: we don't really need a lot surpus aux, we're engineers, not sci officers. If you absolutely must, I'd say no more than 1 or 2 points.
I'm afraid I must disagree with this point. If you're going to be in a support role, even as an engineer, your Aux power is going to come into play, since you're probably going to be packing at least a few science-based repair powers. I would personally go for no less than 3, but no more than 6. In fact, 3 might well be plenty. Though I personally make a policy that for all of my characters all performance skills get a flat 6 ranks.
* As a Golden Rule, it is generally believed you can suffice having 6 points in Starship Warp Core Efficiency, but that you absolutely must have 9 in Starship Warp Core Potential. And this because Starship Warp Core Efficiency only kicks in when you're below 75% subsystem power levels, whereas Starship Warp Core Efficiency affects ALL your power levels, all the time (the metric may change if you do a lot of BO. In that case, having 9 in Starship Warp Core Efficiency is advised too).
* Get Starship Shield Performance to max. Preferably Starship Weapon Performance too; but, as I'm fond of saying, you can't have it all.
Disagreed for warp core potential.
Warp core potential works on the following formula:
Power Boost = Warp Core Potential / 20
With 6 levels in warp core potential, you add +4.2 points of power to every system. If you take 9 levels in it, that's 4.95. 7500 points is a very steep price to pay for that little of a bonus. You'd probably be better off dumping that into EPS (helps out with the Emergency Power abilities, if I recall correctly) or sticking the points somewhere else, maybe a "performance" skill. Note however that if you have the Warp Theorist trait you get a +10 to Warp Core Potential so you may get a little more omph out of tossing a few more points in that direction.
The performance skills get very expensive, too, towards the end, for a lot less of a gain.
The formula that performance skills use is:
Power Boost = System Performance Skill / 10
As such with 6 levels you get +8.4 power, and 9 levels you get +9.9 power. That's a pretty pricey bonus.
Just my opinion; not an expert here.
Also I very my agree with the assessment that putting points in Projectile Specialization is not a great choice, especially when you have nothing in Projectile Weapons. Put those points in Energy Weapon Specialization, IMO.
The term escort itself implies that the ship is meant to supplement a different ship. There should be the cruisers that are the flagships of the battle, and escorts that have a different purpose somehow to escort and assist the cruisers, and the science ships as well...
I'm sorry, but that's a bit of a self-serving reasoning. Escorts simply, erm, escort: not just "to escort and assist the cruisers," but also like, oh, say, to help freighters who 'need escort to the warp-out point.'
When you watch the series, you don't see the enterprise backing away from a fight with some small fighter craft... the understanding is that they outclass and have more firepower than the smaller ship. STO should have followed canon and found some other type of roll for the escorts and science ships so that all three would be viable.
The underlying 'problem' is that STO is essentially a dummied-down EVE Online variant. And in some areas, like with the escort, you're simply feeling the flaw in that approach the most. In EVE the smaller ships can't even load the big-ship weapons and mods (or, if so, only smaller variations thereof). And the bigger weapons do more DPS, but are less accurate. That creates auto-balance, as it were. In dummied-down STO those concepts went completely out the door. So. now we have escorts carrying the exact same mods and weaponry as cruisers... only with 5 tact consoles. THAT is the real problem.
Funny thing is, that the game wouldn't even need a drastic overhaul of all weapons and mods to change to support 'EVE-like' balance. All you'd basically need is 2 extra ship database stat entries: a global dmg modifier (in which smaller ships do innately less dmg, sorry), and one for global accuracy (in which bigger ships are less accurate). And working so that more dmg = being less accurate. And, for the record, when I say 'less accurate,' I don't mean accuracy in terms of chance (like in STO), where cruisers would always hit less often. No, I mean proper accuracy, based on your opponent's sig (like in EVE), where a cruiser would be perfectly able to hit bigger things all the time, but do poorly against ships with a small signature.
Why do you think Cruisers are less accurate than any other vessel?
Especially since accuracy is only influenced by weapon quality, skilling and traits and not the vessel being used?
This tells me you aren't even trying with your cruisers. So I can't help but question the validity of your observations.
Which would be fine if it was just me that felt this way, but since its not theres no reason to rehash the same old. Which I feel is the same thread over and over. Just like this one. Well, then there you go, validated. lol
My point with renaming escort to Battleship, I think came off wrong, but that was just me giving in, waving the white flag. I've played soooooo many dogfighting games in my past. and thats what this game is at its strongest. so I give.
Hell I'd just delete my feds and go full on Klink, If I could change the red interface, it bothers my eyes big time. Thats not a gripe. thats unplayable to ME.If a game makes my eyes water, Im done.
I love the Bortasqu, and would happily play it every day, a Cruiser that does EVReYTHING I want a cruiser to do. If it didnt hurt my eyes. I wouldnt be in this thread period.
I Remember a thread were people argued that actually blue is harder on the eyes then red? if thats true, then it means I suffer from some kinda phisical problem otheres dont, Because I cant play KLink for more then 30 Minutes without needing to turn it off.
I constructed this build (the skill points) based off of what I've been reading in this thread and think this is approximately how I would build my tac and engi (for space skills) as it should provide the versatility to switch between the escort/cruiser/carrier ships i use. The only thing I am uncertain of is how much power my starship X performance skills would give me at 6. Someone said putting 7 points in would only lose one power point, so does 6 lose two power points in the system? if so, I could accept that loss for everything else I've given myself in the build. But I am open to suggestions.
Though I may have missunderstood your text on accuracy.
Didn't say cruiser were overall less accurate (in fact, currently all ships are equally accurate, as ship accuracy doesn't exist yet). I was merely suggesting it makes sense for bigger ships, that carry big-ship, high-DPS guns, to be less accurate against smaller targets (i.e.: you can't hope to target and hit a mosquito with a cruise-missile). And, likewise, that it makes sense for smaller ships, with itty-bitty guns on them, to hit less hard, but be more precise.
Not even Star Wars had the small ships dominating combat like STO has with "Escorts Online" now.
...
Dan Stahl and Cryptic could take some pointers from T2 and SWG and make STO a boat-load better and more balanced game in PVE and PVP. But, I believe the best we can hope for is that Cryptic comes to believe that we will all spend money on a P2W crusier. In that case, we'd probably see 1 or 2 in a lockbox tomorrow.
Wow, i didn't know that. Thanks for the info.
So how do the devs come to the idea of making Escorts powerful like that and why did they use a Stone/paper/scissor mechanic in the first place?
Was it just to make it easy for MMO players to get attuned to Star Trek ships regardless that it doesn't suit to that universe at all?
It must have been obvious from the very first, that they made a completely wrong representation of Star Trek ships.
I just can't follow their motivations....
There was just ONE type of escort like ships in Star Trek EVER. Making it a whole branch of superior spaceships, (even much superior than ships that are 5 times as big and powerful) reads like a bad joke.
Seeing Star Trek and creating a game where "escorts" dominate all other ships is something i just can't understand. It's completely atypical and feels like made up out of thin air.
The longer they ignore that, the lower i do estimate their determination to create a serious and good star trek game.
About your suggestion about a P2W cruiser:
I would already be happy if we could get some more Cruisers like the Regent or Galor class, they are much more versatile than any cruiser we have now. So as player we are able to adapt much better and much more creative to mission requirements.
Cruisers need especially higher Tactical stations, i find it just sad that only a few Cruisers can even use Beam overload III or other Lt.Cmdr Tac Skills, althrough the highest enery Beam BOFF powers are Lt. Cmdr.
Escorts on the other hand do all have acess to the highest tactical stations. I know that Cruisers are supposed to be Engineering ships, but limiting the most of them to just Lt. tactical Stations is way to extreme.
Cruisers need higher Tac Stations, they just can't generate a satisfying amount of firepower or other offensive powers with the current availlable BOFF powers.
Thank you for reading or ignoring, depending on who you are.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Comments
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
Well, that's just called Subnucleonic Beam.
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...uild=OddyTac_0
Probably still needs work, and I am kinda at a loss as to what to do with my extra ensign tac slot on my lt tac, since I already have the two purple conn officers that reduce CD on tt1. Also the double transfer shields, it seems to work ok, but I think I need to change that. As you can see though, I removed that excess of EPtX that I had earlier on the original sci oddy build, and replaced it with a RSP. Hopefully that increases survivability without losing out on too much damage? Not sure, hence why I am asking.
As for skills, I did some research and found out that putting 9 points into a lot of skills is excessive since the bonus is just not really worth it (esp the X performance, you can spec only 7 points in and only lose 1 power). So I did some mods, haven't actually put them into practice yet (respec tokens expensive lol), but was just checking to see viability first. So I modified the space skills some. Ground skills you can pretty much ignore.
As for builds, here is what I run (basically going for maximum damage output):
Fore Weapons: AP BA mk XII [crth][acc][borg]x3 Quantum Torpedo Launcher mk XII [crth][acc][borg] (would be open to changing that, and don't have the regent so can't get the 180 torp)
Aft Weapons: Clone of Fore Weapons (also open to changes)
Shields: MACO Resilient Shield Array mk XII (for the proc and cuz they are just really good shields)
Deflector: MACO Graviton Deflector mk XII (for the increased tankiness and the 2 piece MACO bonus, which actually works well on a cruiser imo, would use the 3 piece borg set but I just can't justify replacing the MACO deflector with the borg one, the bonuses just can't really compare to me)
Engines: Assimilated Subtranswarp Engines (for the +5 engine power bonus and the 2 piece borg bonus)
Devices: Subspace Field Modulator (don't have the deuterium surplus (yet, been busy IRL) or red matter capacitor or would use them as well) (also possibly going to use batteries even though I am not specced in them, but I have a ton lying around)
Tactical Consoles: AP Mag Regulator mk XII (uncommon, and one common, anything rarer is expensive and my ECs are a little low atm)
Engineering Consoles: Neutronium Alloy mk XI (rare, still can't afford the mk XII rares or very rares yet, but working on it)
Science Consoles: Field Generator mk XII (uncommon, again still can't afford better at this point... TRIBBLE so damn expensive lol), Assimilated Module (for two piece bonus and it's overall pretty much universal usefulness), Chevron Separation Module (for it's obvious offensive capabilities)
DOffs: Unchanged from original post in other threads. Ah hell, why not a refresher.
Conn Officer (TT reducer and AP booster)(purple)x2
Technician (BOff ability cd reduction)(purple)
(EPtX cd reducer DOff)(purple)x2
Soooooo yeah, hopefully a tad better?
Input wanted
seriously there are other ways to debuff a target OTHER than Sub Nuc, certain weapons have a Debuf, Disruptors spring to mind here but yes sub nuc is pretty much the bread and butter of ANY compitent Sci build...
still have to thing outside the box on your build not just accuse me of being inside the box because I use 1 inherent sci ability... depending on which ship and loadout I take depends on what my team needs me to do... so you are saying that you build your ships around your inherent Captain abilities ? that is definately not thinking outside the box it perpepuates the cycle of this ship sux cryptic/PWE needs to fix it
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
I'm sorry, but are you putting the NX-01 enterprise in the same "cruiser" category as all other star trek ships? Cause that's pretty ridiculous. It was an experimental, pre-federation ship that didn't have photon torpedoes for what... half the series? It only had a couple "phase cannons," note, those are primitive precursors to "phasers." And the ship didn't even have shields. In no way, shape, or form, can that ship be compared to the rest of the star trek cruisers or used to justify cruisers needing to suck, lol.
Last I checked, those subnuke doffs are incredibly expensive, well outside the budget for most of the player base... so are you suggesting that all of the cruiser's problems can be solved by throwing billions of EC at the problem? Lol... Also, those doffs aren't limited to cruiser/sci ship use, so a escort can load up on them and just pwn your face even harder... so once again, escort trumps all.
I have been hearing that putting points into threat control is more efficient than putting points into the engineer resist skills. Supposedly it grants about the same amount of bonus to kinetic/all energy resist as you would get from the two engi skills. Though you'll also be saddled with the extra attention from enemies.
Also, try positioning yourself above or below the cube, then you are out of their torp arcs.
Also Cruiser Engineering Captains have been laughed at for to long. Please give cruisers some strength back. Some of us don't mind healing, but would also love to do some damage at the same time. If you are going to cruse us with the lowest turn rate in the fleet then fine give use some teeth to fight back! The Regent class does not count too!
Is it just me, or does the link not work?
Anyway, here's my ody/bortas build when I fly a cruiser.
Tac/Sci Ody
(fore weapons)
1 x MK XII Anti-borg quantum torpedo launcher/ 3 x MK XII Anti-borg Phaser array
(aft weapons)
1 x MK XII Anti-borg quantum torpedo launcher/ 3 x MK XII Anti-borg Phaser array
(deflector/engine/shield)
Borg Deflector
Borg Engine
Maco MK XII shield
(engineering)
Borg universal console/MK XI Blue Neutronium/ MK XI Blue Neutronium/Mk XI Blue Neutronium
(science)
Saucer sep console/MK XI Blue Emitter Array/MK XI Blue Emitter Array/MK XI Blue Emitter Array (3 emitters for sci 2 for tac ody, I find the increased shield heals work better for me than increased shield capacity)
(tactical)
MK XI Blue Phaser Relay/MK XI Blue Phaser Relay/MK XI Blue Phaser relay (3 for tac ody 2 on sci ody) And some times I switch out for equivalent arrays/consoles for antiproton.
Boff skills:
(Ltc.Cmdr. Universal)
Tac Team 1/Torp spread 2/ Torp spread 3
(Ensign Universal)
Emergency power to shields 1
(Lt. Tactical)
Beam Array Fire at Will 1/ Beam Array Fire at Will 2
(Commander Engineering)
Emergency Power to shields 1/Reverse Shield Polarity 1/ Reverse Shield Polarity 2/ Auxiliary Power to the Structural Integrity Field 3
(Lt. Science)
Hazard emitters 1/Sci Team 2
Doffs: 2xPurple Tac Team Doffs, 2xPurple Sci Team Doffs, 1xPurple Brace For Impact Doff.
I put sci team in there for pvp subnukes and because some times I need a shield heal and not distribution... tac team can't distribute shields when you don't have any left.
I have also used an all beam build where torp spread 2 and 3 would be replaced by attack patterns beta 1 and 2.
My bortas is pretty much the same as the ody, just with more tac consoles and fewer sci consoles. I don't use any of the bortas special consoles, and only use the saucer sep console on the ody so it can gain a reasonable turn rate.
Captain skills vary between my tac and engineer captain a bit, but generally:
For tactical skills, I don't have any points in threat control, I'm skilled for "general" weapons training, energy weapons and torp weapons and put points into accuracy. On my Tac captain he has full attack pattern skill
Engineering I have points for more power in all subsystems and better turn rate and speed and whatnot (without turn rate and speed points, the cruiser might as well be a space station) and it makes escorts even more zippy and maneuverable.
and in science I have points in the shield capacity and shield heal skills, though I probably could move some points around to put at least some into threat control.
I always do elite STF's, except I avoid cure as that one almost always fails if you're pugging it. Too many tards and I don't feel like wasting my time. I can tank tac cubes and the gates and Donatra, provided no one steals away agro, so I can do some decent damage if I position myself JUUUUUUUST right so that I try to get both fore and aft torp launchers and all six beams going. But, of course, I can also switch to an escort with cannons or beams and torps (escorts use beams and torps better as their maneuverability lets them quickly pop out a torp spread/volley and then quickly go back to full broadside.) hold agro, without losing too much durability or heal ability while also much more easily staying out of the enemy's best firing arcs. So, yeah, my cruiser is pretty good... for a cruiser. I usually use it when I don't feel like being QUITE so attentive to how much damage I'm taking, at the expense of feeling like a floating brick and more like I'm pecking away at enemies. But switching to an escort type vessel, I don't lose much in heal/tank, but gain a whole lot more in maneuverability and damage, regardless of if I'm in my engineer or tac captain.
I'd also like to point out that the fact that tac team is basically NECESSARY to survive in this game on elite/in pvp, while sci team and eng team are optional, further exemplifies how this game is clearly skewed toward escorts. And since many cruiser/sci vessels only have two tac skills and at least one of them has to be tac team... yeah.
Hmm, I shall look that up. Thx.
Also, I've always assumed Cubes simply have a 360 arc, when it comes to torps (as they don't seem to have a front and such, either). Would be worthwhile to test that out, too.
They can hit you with torps from any lateral side, but if you park right on top/under them, then all you have to deal with is the beams.
^ this. I mean theres something wrong when a single skill is so Must have. it would actually balance the game more IMO if the Transfer shield from Tac Team was moved to Engineering team. But, that would hurt an escort, we cant have that.
Lol, think for a moment, chaining ET helps a ship do what? Heal hull. Do you have any idea of how much overhealing exists in the game already? No, I don't think you do. Have you considered what preemptively using ET to get a benefit from shield distribution does for ANY ship? It wastes ET actual effects or it wastes the shield distribution.
Nor do I think you've considered that even without doffs several escorts can already chain ET. Nevermind the damage and turning bonus that TT provides is of more value to a cruiser than to an escort.
Its pretty clear that TT was chosen for 2 reasons. The first is because its effects are meant to be used preemptively, while ET and ST are meant to be used after things happen... negating any benefit shield redistribution might offer. And second, because TTs benefits promote a more fun action-y gameplay (more ship agility and more dakka make for a more fun game than the yet another layer of defenses!).
I played a bit of Battlestar Galactica Online. It is a F2P game that is basically ship combat and farming resources. But, my point is that they have 3 rolls of ships as well, they have strike craft, escorts, and the flagship type ships (name eludes me at moment), and they have different rolls. The larger flagship has the potential to take out other large ships with missiles or whatever, while the strike craft go in guns blazing to take out missiles or lay some damage down on the bigger ship, the escorts roll is to help protect the larger ship during the battle.
Perhaps, if Star Trek Online had some similar set up for the ship balance. The cruisers with a distinctive roll as both tank and heavy damage dealer at long range, the escorts perhaps could go in to attack the cruisers, and the science ships built to have strengths vs the escorts ... or some other such arrangement.
But, I agree.... the fact that the escort is king and the cruiser and science ships are pretty much a joke is so frustrating that I hardly ever play anymore. Because I don't want to have to fly an escort with a tac officer. My first and main character is an engie in a cruiser... and that's what I want to play....
When you watch the series, you don't see the enterprise backing away from a fight with some small fighter craft... the understanding is that they outclass and have more firepower than the smaller ship. STO should have followed canon and found some other type of roll for the escorts and science ships so that all three would be viable.
Anyway, just my 2 cents
You are correct, link no work, here's one that should.
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=BlargTac_0
Let's focus on the skills. With all due respec-t, you need a respec.
* You maxed out Starship Energy Weapons (good), but have nothing in Starship Energy Weapon Specialization. That, in itself, in not a big deal per se; except when you have 6 points in Starship Projectile Weapon Specialization, but NONE in Starship Projectile Weapons itself (is that a new thing or something, do a lot of 'crit', but no dmg?). So, since you seem to like BO and BFAW, I'd switch those 6 points in Starship Projectile Weapon Specialization over to Starship Energy Weapon Specialization, pronto.
* You have nothing in Starship Attack Patterns. Not a 'must-have' skill per se; but especially for us engineers, who can't do a lot of native dmg to begin with, having at least 3 points in it would help.
* You favor Starship Threat Control over Starship Maneuvers. Nothing wrong with that -- a choice.
Now, onto Engineering Systems itself:
* Lose Driver Coil, in its sorry entirety. It's the least useful skill of them all. And unless you plan to fy around doing the Tour of the Universe thingy a lot, ditch it for something far more useful.
* While it is true that maxing out everything into the reds is often excessive (after all, reds only give you an extra 5% each), Starship Electro-Plasma Systems, however, is generally considered a 'core' skill: you'll want 9 in that.
* Starship Engine Performance you can safely blank for your line of work (cruiser pilot).
* Starship Impulse Thrusters, I'd say, are a bit of must, especially for slow-turners. I'd max that.
* Starship Hull Plating and Starship Armor Reinforcements all maxed out seems good for tanking; but you can already tank very well. I gave each 6 points as a result (especially, considering you're spending no less than 9,000 (!) xp on those extra 3 reds for Starship Armor Reinforcements).
* Personally, I have zero in Starship Auxiliary Performance: we don't really need a lot surpus aux, we're engineers, not sci officers.
* As a Golden Rule, it is generally believed you can suffice having 6 points in Starship Warp Core Efficiency, but that you absolutely must have 9 in Starship Warp Core Potential. And this because Starship Warp Core Efficiency only kicks in when you're below 75% subsystem power levels, whereas Starship Warp Core Efficiency affects ALL your power levels, all the time (the metric may change if you do a lot of BO. In that case, having 9 in Starship Warp Core Efficiency is advised too).
* Get Starship Shield Performance to max. Preferably Starship Weapon Performance too; but, as I'm fond of saying, you can't have it all.
Now, as for Science and Operations Systems:
* Looks good. You have nothing in Starship Power Insulators, though. That can be dangerous, but it's not a deal-breaker per se.
Basically, as an engineer you want to find a good balance between what you were made for (tanking) and doing some stuff on the offensive too. I'd say, have a look at my own skills loadout:
my skillpoint distro
Sci folk will, no doubt, have more in the Starship Particle Generators and Starship Graviton Generators departments and such; but for an engineer, I'm overall happy with my skill plan.
Sure, your right, sorry been about a week since I played and I dont use Engineering Team or Sci team because Chaining Tactical Team is all that really matters. Only reason I threw that out there was in a cruiser thers always PLENTY of engineering boff slots, that it would seem the best to put such an option there.
TT's turning bouns to a cruiser? lol. And an escort chaining engineering team means theyd have to give up EPTS chains. As it is, an escort gets it all. My random Idea would make them more Fragile. But, whatever.
STO, just needs to change their classification from escort, to Battleship. Look at the Pathetic Aquarious "Destroyer", yeah its like a shuttle, but will still be of more use in an engagement then a cruiser, or say a "Dreadnought"
The problem i see with Cryptics introduction of smaller and smaller escorts is that in the end we have small ships completely dominating Star Trek like they do in Star Wars.
I wouldn't want that, many years ago ther where so many space fighter simulations, i was sick of flying small space ships forever. There are still very few games that feature bigger ships without being a RTS. Seeing now the biggest Star Trek game dominated by (again) small flying guns is just annoying.
Cryptic should have made Space Combat mechanics much more tactic oriented and less action - dogfighting like.
Thank you for reading or ignoring, depending on who you are.
They called them escorts because Starfleet was squeamish about calling them Warships.
This tells me you aren't even trying with your cruisers. So I can't help but question the validity of your observations.
Not even Star Wars had the small ships dominating combat like STO has with "Escorts Online" now.
SWG actualy did space combat pretty well. X-Wings/Ties were fast, agile, and had some punch (if you ran RE-ed level 8 guns with the pre-NERF shields like I did - 10000/2756) but my gunboat was actualy something to see in PVP and PVE. It flew like the perverbial whale, wouldn't turn, couldn't follow anything, slow as the day is long, but could tank like you wouldn't even believe. (when they introed the gunboat they actualy made it's own shielding and armor to make sure it did that, you just needed a maxed out shipwright with the right suit, right buffs, the absolute best materials, and a little luck at crafting to get them that good) With it's 6 Null bolts (the best and highest damage guns in the game, mine were 100 max damage with 99% min damage) and 2 RE-ed level 10s, nothing wanted to get withing the sights of that thing as well. (But in order to fly the gunboat well, you needed a full group of 8 good players to do it to it's absolute advantage.)
Dan Stahl and Cryptic could take some pointers from T2 and SWG and make STO a boat-load better and more balanced game in PVE and PVP. But, I believe the best we can hope for is that Cryptic comes to believe that we will all spend money on a P2W crusier. In that case, we'd probably see 1 or 2 in a lockbox tomorrow.
I'm afraid I must disagree with this point. If you're going to be in a support role, even as an engineer, your Aux power is going to come into play, since you're probably going to be packing at least a few science-based repair powers. I would personally go for no less than 3, but no more than 6. In fact, 3 might well be plenty. Though I personally make a policy that for all of my characters all performance skills get a flat 6 ranks.
Disagreed for warp core potential.
Warp core potential works on the following formula:
Power Boost = Warp Core Potential / 20
With 6 levels in warp core potential, you add +4.2 points of power to every system. If you take 9 levels in it, that's 4.95. 7500 points is a very steep price to pay for that little of a bonus. You'd probably be better off dumping that into EPS (helps out with the Emergency Power abilities, if I recall correctly) or sticking the points somewhere else, maybe a "performance" skill. Note however that if you have the Warp Theorist trait you get a +10 to Warp Core Potential so you may get a little more omph out of tossing a few more points in that direction.
The performance skills get very expensive, too, towards the end, for a lot less of a gain.
The formula that performance skills use is:
Power Boost = System Performance Skill / 10
As such with 6 levels you get +8.4 power, and 9 levels you get +9.9 power. That's a pretty pricey bonus.
Just my opinion; not an expert here.
Also I very my agree with the assessment that putting points in Projectile Specialization is not a great choice, especially when you have nothing in Projectile Weapons. Put those points in Energy Weapon Specialization, IMO.
I'm sorry, but that's a bit of a self-serving reasoning.
The underlying 'problem' is that STO is essentially a dummied-down EVE Online variant. And in some areas, like with the escort, you're simply feeling the flaw in that approach the most. In EVE the smaller ships can't even load the big-ship weapons and mods (or, if so, only smaller variations thereof). And the bigger weapons do more DPS, but are less accurate. That creates auto-balance, as it were. In dummied-down STO those concepts went completely out the door. So. now we have escorts carrying the exact same mods and weaponry as cruisers... only with 5 tact consoles. THAT is the real problem.
Funny thing is, that the game wouldn't even need a drastic overhaul of all weapons and mods to change to support 'EVE-like' balance. All you'd basically need is 2 extra ship database stat entries: a global dmg modifier (in which smaller ships do innately less dmg, sorry), and one for global accuracy (in which bigger ships are less accurate). And working so that more dmg = being less accurate. And, for the record, when I say 'less accurate,' I don't mean accuracy in terms of chance (like in STO), where cruisers would always hit less often. No, I mean proper accuracy, based on your opponent's sig (like in EVE), where a cruiser would be perfectly able to hit bigger things all the time, but do poorly against ships with a small signature.
Especially since accuracy is only influenced by weapon quality, skilling and traits and not the vessel being used?
R.I.P
Why do you think I think Cruisers are less accurate than any other vessel? :P
Which would be fine if it was just me that felt this way, but since its not theres no reason to rehash the same old. Which I feel is the same thread over and over. Just like this one. Well, then there you go, validated. lol
My point with renaming escort to Battleship, I think came off wrong, but that was just me giving in, waving the white flag. I've played soooooo many dogfighting games in my past. and thats what this game is at its strongest. so I give.
Hell I'd just delete my feds and go full on Klink, If I could change the red interface, it bothers my eyes big time. Thats not a gripe. thats unplayable to ME.If a game makes my eyes water, Im done.
I love the Bortasqu, and would happily play it every day, a Cruiser that does EVReYTHING I want a cruiser to do. If it didnt hurt my eyes. I wouldnt be in this thread period.
I Remember a thread were people argued that actually blue is harder on the eyes then red? if thats true, then it means I suffer from some kinda phisical problem otheres dont, Because I cant play KLink for more then 30 Minutes without needing to turn it off.
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=pahfectengibuild_0
I constructed this build (the skill points) based off of what I've been reading in this thread and think this is approximately how I would build my tac and engi (for space skills) as it should provide the versatility to switch between the escort/cruiser/carrier ships i use. The only thing I am uncertain of is how much power my starship X performance skills would give me at 6. Someone said putting 7 points in would only lose one power point, so does 6 lose two power points in the system? if so, I could accept that loss for everything else I've given myself in the build. But I am open to suggestions.
I do not know. Thats why I asked.
Though I may have missunderstood your text on accuracy.
R.I.P
Didn't say cruiser were overall less accurate (in fact, currently all ships are equally accurate, as ship accuracy doesn't exist yet). I was merely suggesting it makes sense for bigger ships, that carry big-ship, high-DPS guns, to be less accurate against smaller targets (i.e.: you can't hope to target and hit a mosquito with a cruise-missile). And, likewise, that it makes sense for smaller ships, with itty-bitty guns on them, to hit less hard, but be more precise.
So how do the devs come to the idea of making Escorts powerful like that and why did they use a Stone/paper/scissor mechanic in the first place?
Was it just to make it easy for MMO players to get attuned to Star Trek ships regardless that it doesn't suit to that universe at all?
It must have been obvious from the very first, that they made a completely wrong representation of Star Trek ships.
I just can't follow their motivations....
There was just ONE type of escort like ships in Star Trek EVER. Making it a whole branch of superior spaceships, (even much superior than ships that are 5 times as big and powerful) reads like a bad joke.
Seeing Star Trek and creating a game where "escorts" dominate all other ships is something i just can't understand. It's completely atypical and feels like made up out of thin air.
The longer they ignore that, the lower i do estimate their determination to create a serious and good star trek game.
About your suggestion about a P2W cruiser:
I would already be happy if we could get some more Cruisers like the Regent or Galor class, they are much more versatile than any cruiser we have now. So as player we are able to adapt much better and much more creative to mission requirements.
Cruisers need especially higher Tactical stations, i find it just sad that only a few Cruisers can even use Beam overload III or other Lt.Cmdr Tac Skills, althrough the highest enery Beam BOFF powers are Lt. Cmdr.
Escorts on the other hand do all have acess to the highest tactical stations. I know that Cruisers are supposed to be Engineering ships, but limiting the most of them to just Lt. tactical Stations is way to extreme.
Cruisers need higher Tac Stations, they just can't generate a satisfying amount of firepower or other offensive powers with the current availlable BOFF powers.
Thank you for reading or ignoring, depending on who you are.