Vesta Class: Speculation and Discussion

burstdragon323 · October 2012

This thread is for the Speculation and Discussion of the upcoming Vesta Class.

Personally, I'm hoping for a Science Vessel, even with cannons. It fits the timeline of when the ship was created, the Borg were invading again, but they were not going to assimilate Earth. This time, they wanted to destroy it.

What I am NOT hoping for, even actually dreading, is if Cryptic decides to make it into YET another cruiser. We have enough Cruisers. There is only a few C-Store Science ships, and only ONE is an actual Full Science Ship, while the others are Hybrid "Sci-Cruisers".

jexsamx · October 2012

Any excuse to repeat myself.

Ahem.

Commander Science
Lt. Cmdr Tactical
Lieutenant Engineering
Lieutenant Universal
Ensign Science

3/3 weapons

3 device slots

4 Science / 3 Tactical / 2 (3?) Engineering console slots

1.3 shield modifier

8 or degree per second turn rate

27000 hull

Able to mount Dual Cannons, but not Dual Heavy Cannons

I stuck her with the Excelsior's turn rate because I felt it was best. Slow enough to make her feel like a Cruiser, fast enough to not totally lose out on those dual cannons. In pretty much every other way she's a standard Science ship.

I left the potential for a third Engineering console so that she could match up with the Oddy and Fleet ships, but I'm not sure about that call.

mimey2 · October 2012

I think whatever happens, might tick off a lot of people regardless of anything else. I know some people will not like it no matter what, but I'm just wondering if it'll be ticking out a LOT of people.

IF, and I repeat, IF it is a cruiser, hopefully it'll wield cannons of course. Regardless of anything else, the BOFF layout would be good as:

Cmdr Engineer
Lt. Cmdr Science
Lt. Tac or Universal
Lt. Engineer or Universal (if the other Lt. is a tac)
Ensign Engineer or (more preferably) Sci, or again, universal

I do hope it isn't a cruiser. I've been wanting a cruiser (that isn't an Odyssey) to fill out the sci-heavy cruiser we're missing, but I wouldn't wanna give up the Vesta just to take that role.

If it is a Sci ship, it'd be interesting if it changed things up in the weapons department, like having a 4/2 set-up, or even having 7 weapons possibly. Or having a 4 sci, 4 engineering, 1 tactical console, or switching the tac and engineering console slots, to make it have some teeth, at the cost of few engineering slots. I mean, Sensor Analysis, 4 tac slots, Sensor Scan, plus possibly cannons would really make things interesting.

cahlphoenix · October 2012

Vesta = Starcruiser spec

4 ing
3 science
2 tac

puttenham · October 2012

mimey2 wrote: »

I think whatever happens, might tick off a lot of people regardless of anything else. I know some people will not like it no matter what, but I'm just wondering if it'll be ticking out a LOT of people.

IF, and I repeat, IF it is a cruiser, hopefully it'll wield cannons of course. Regardless of anything else, the BOFF layout would be good as:

Cmdr Engineer
Lt. Cmdr Science
Lt. Tac or Universal
Lt. Engineer or Universal (if the other Lt. is a tac)
Ensign Engineer or (more preferably) Sci, or again, universal

I do hope it isn't a cruiser. I've been wanting a cruiser (that isn't an Odyssey) to fill out the sci-heavy cruiser we're missing, but I wouldn't wanna give up the Vesta just to take that role.

If it is a Sci ship, it'd be interesting if it changed things up in the weapons department, like having a 4/2 set-up, or even having 7 weapons possibly. Or having a 4 sci, 4 engineering, 1 tactical console, or switching the tac and engineering console slots, to make it have some teeth, at the cost of few engineering slots. I mean, Sensor Analysis, 4 tac slots, Sensor Scan, plus possibly cannons would really make things interesting.

it would make it interesting, yet extrodinarily unbalanced. if it is a sci ship, it will prob. have 3 weapons slots. there is a reason they do that and that is to keep it balanced. with half the goodies a sci has at his/her disposal, they would be unmatched. 4 weapons in the front is def. out of the ?. since most of the big boy sci abilities need you facing the target,(which said abilities are the reason sci vessels have a 3/3 loadout lol) it would be more realistic to see a 2/4 set up..

im pretty sure al already said it was gonna be sci (or very sci in nature).

i for one hope its a cruiser, cause then it will be more usefull and well rounded for everyone (tac sci and eng) but make it a cruiser with a loadout like this.

cmdr univ.
ltcmdr tac
lt eng.
lt univ.
ens sci

4/4 weapons.
less than 1 shield modifier
all the perks a cruiser generally gets.
2 eng slot.
3sci.
3 tac.
(leaving it open for a fleet upgrade in say t6 or 7 starbase projects)
38k hull.
ability to mount dual canons (non heavy)
4 device slots.

and who knows what the univ. consol that would come with it would be.

that could make it sci capable, but not sci resiliant. (as in no endless shields or endless amounts of aux power). thus making you have to think, and work at a build.

in my eyes, making a sci ship that can mount dual cannons will never be able to be balanced (unless you make a 2/3 or maybe 2/4 weapons loadout. the proc chances alone are rediculous (thus the point of reg. duals). too much firepower, with sci abilities coupled with them is to op. thus why they chose to do a 3/3 (they didnt do it to punish sci characters lol).

if this ship is built into a sci vessel, it is in my opinion that it will not live up to what it was intended to be. (yes it had sci abilities in the book, but it also had a kick a** and take names rep.

however, i could care less what they do with the ship cause i personally dont like it lol.. however, i dont want it to come out and be too op. nothing worse then the game being unblanced by one pay to win ship...

tenkari · October 2012

it's been said several times by devs that its going to be a sci ship that can mount cannons.

so my guess is it'll have at least a lt com tac officer, maybe the ensign too. eng will likely be lt. with the other lt and the com slots being sci, since it still is a sci ship. though it'd be nice if there was a universal BO slot.

weapons most likely 3/3.

issueman1 · October 2012

I speculate it will be a space ship.

red01999 · October 2012

issueman1 wrote: »

I speculate it will be a space ship.

Clearly, sir, you are a frothing, raving madman suggesting such.

lianthelia · October 2012

tenkari wrote: »

it's been said several times by devs that its going to be a sci ship that can mount cannons.

so my guess is it'll have at least a lt com tac officer, maybe the ensign too. eng will likely be lt. with the other lt and the com slots being sci, since it still is a sci ship. though it'd be nice if there was a universal BO slot.

weapons most likely 3/3.

Where is it definitive? People keep saying it will be a science ship but the last words I heard on it are it will likely be...but nothing is set in stone.

The words were umm around...I think it will be a science ship unless someone can convince me otherwise.

" I think its going to be a science ship and I think thats the way we are going to go. "
Direct quote from priority one.

lianthelia · October 2012

f2pdrakron wrote: »

You want another bloody cruiser?

At this point you be stepping onto someone toes, with the Galaxy, Galaxy-X, Odyssey, Star, Assault, Assault Refit and Excelsior we are filled with Cruisers to filled ANY rank and were you would put the Vesta?

If its a Tactical it means it would have the BO layout of either the Assault Cruiser or the Excelsior, if its a Cruiser Science Hybrid then why the hell anyone would pick it up when the Odyssey Science can do the same on Layout, if we put canons (and it will have cannons) and its have a turn Rate 6 you might as well taken then off because its not going to hit anything unless its a "wide angle" Dual Cannon, not to say without a Lt. Cmdr Tactical the ship is handicapped because you either support Cannons or Beams, you cannot really do both.

I want the Kar'Fi BOFF layout, hell I dont mind getting the entire Kar'Fi layout and just trade the hangars for SA and SST, its a good Tactical/Science Hybrid.

Trouble is if she is built to wield cannons, you would hurt your dps to put a beam or dual beam to use SST...for a tac science with nothing else you kind of need every little thing you can get.

thebiggyjsto · October 2012

mimey2 wrote: »

I think whatever happens, might tick off a lot of people regardless of anything else. I know some people will not like it no matter what, but I'm just wondering if it'll be ticking out a LOT of people.

IF, and I repeat, IF it is a cruiser, hopefully it'll wield cannons of course. Regardless of anything else, the BOFF layout would be good as:

Cmdr Engineer
Lt. Cmdr Science
Lt. Tac or Universal
Lt. Engineer or Universal (if the other Lt. is a tac)
Ensign Engineer or (more preferably) Sci, or again, universal

I do hope it isn't a cruiser. I've been wanting a cruiser (that isn't an Odyssey) to fill out the sci-heavy cruiser we're missing, but I wouldn't wanna give up the Vesta just to take that role.

If it is a Sci ship, it'd be interesting if it changed things up in the weapons department, like having a 4/2 set-up, or even having 7 weapons possibly. Or having a 4 sci, 4 engineering, 1 tactical console, or switching the tac and engineering console slots, to make it have some teeth, at the cost of few engineering slots. I mean, Sensor Analysis, 4 tac slots, Sensor Scan, plus possibly cannons would really make things interesting.

I like it but i would say more like

Commander Science
Lt. Cmdr Tactical
Lieutenant Engineering
Lt. Cmdr Universal
Ensign Science

3/3 weapons

3 device slots

4 Science / 3 Tactical / 2 Engineering console slots

1.1 shield modifier

7 or degree per second turn rate

35000 hull

Able to mount Cannons

lianthelia · October 2012

f2pdrakron wrote: »

If are doing a cannon build you better off in a Escort.

Its always going to be handicapped for cannons, its a science ship and subsystem targeting does not work with cannons, only with beams meaning one the abilities the ship will have you have will see no use for because you using cannons.

Reason why I brought beams and cannons is because the Vesta is very unlikely to have a higher turn rate higher that the Nebula class and Excelsior (Turn rate 8) and so cannons are going to be very situational but as situational it might be there is a difference of being able to mount dual cannons and being able to use cannons (see Galaxy-X), being able to use then does mean you do require a BOFF layout that goes to Lt. Cmdr tactical since Scatter Volley and Rapid Fire start at Lt rank, that very much limits to you having to use one and being stuck with a Ens. rank Beam Overload, a Torpedo HW or Torpedo Spread or Tactical team.

There is a reason why people bitched and moan about the Assault Cruiser BO layout by comparing it to Excelsior T4 BO layout and why the Assault Cruiser Refit BO layout was welcomed.

Then lets face it if your doing a beam build your better off with a Odyssey or Assault Cruiser Retrofit then...2 more beams.

To be brutally honest I ask what is the point of this ship then? If a escort can do better with cannons and a cruiser better with beams then what really do we need a Vesta for?

I know people hate carriers but I still with it were possible they went with some of the ideas I had...I mean with what the wiki says about the Vesta...they are possible.

talien · October 2012

If it's going to be a Sci ship I suspect it'll have a similar setup to the Orb Weaver. Honestly, my first thought was "did someone TRIBBLE up and put the Vesta stats on it? 9 turn rate and 1200 crew on a Sci ship?"

Look at the stats for the Orb:
30,000 hull
1.4 shield mod
1200 crew
3 Tac 3 Eng 4 Sci consoles
9 turn rate
Ens Tac, Lt. Cmdr Eng, Ens Sci, Cmdr Sci, Lt. Cmdr universal (would anyone use this for anything BUT Tac?)

Sure sounds like a good setup for the Escort/Cruiser/Sci hybrid that the Vesta is being made out to be. I'm sure it'll have slightly different boff setup but I doubt it'll be too much different.

Just to test it out I set it up my Orb Weaver with 2 single cannons+1 torp fore and 2 turrets+1 beam aft so I could still use SST, and it was passable. Even with DHC it wouldn't exactly be an Escort level powerhouse, but it would have more firepower than a regular Sci ship and be more survivable than an Escort, but not as tough as a Cruiser.

lianthelia · October 2012

I still don't see the point of making the ship, you yourself said a escort could do better with cannons so why fly it? We know cruisers are better with beams. Just so we can have a tac ship with a science commander, then get a orb weaver.

I'm not saying I don't want a Vesta, I do its a cool looking ship. But according to what your saying...what the ship is being specially built for other ships can do better. So really why build it then?

SST isn't that special, for it to be really affective you need flow capacitors and maybe some type of power drain behind it.

I know people don't like carriers but I've always like pets...and I know the odds are there won't be any hangers...just saying by the wiki it is possible for the ship to be a flight deck ship since it did have a flight deck ontop of also having a shuttle bay.

rrincy · October 2012

It ISNT a flight deck , its a hanger deck .

big difference

it has a standard shuttle bay , and an elevator for runabouts and larger shuttles leading into a hanger
its not like the atrox which has two distinct and visible flight decks , or the artimitage , which is also a through-deck carrier :rolleyes:

marc8219 · October 2012

f2pdrakron wrote: »

There is NO Federation ship that have a Cmdr. Science and a Lt. Cmdr Tactical BO layout.

Yes there is, the Fleet Sci vessel retrofit, the Nova.

http://www.stowiki.org/Fleet_Science_Vessel_Retrofit

paragon92518 · October 2012

burstdragon323 wrote: »

This thread is for the Speculation and Discussion of the upcoming Vesta Class.

Personally, I'm hoping for a Science Vessel, even with cannons. It fits the timeline of when the ship was created, the Borg were invading again, but they were not going to assimilate Earth. This time, they wanted to destroy it.

What I am NOT hoping for, even actually dreading, is if Cryptic decides to make it into YET another cruiser. We have enough Cruisers. There is only a few C-Store Science ships, and only ONE is an actual Full Science Ship, while the others are Hybrid "Sci-Cruisers".

I'm speculating the Vesta....to be...one of the uglier ships when it makes it in-game.

rrincy · October 2012

isnt that opinion , not speculation ?

dan512 · October 2012

Its supposed to have some kind of cannon is what was said? i dont think thier talkin about just cannons.

lianthelia · October 2012

rrincy wrote: »

It ISNT a flight deck , its a hanger deck .

big difference
it has a standard shuttle bay , and an elevator for runabouts and larger shuttles leading into a hanger
its not like the atrox which has two distinct and visible flight decks , or the artimitage , which is also a through-deck carrier :rolleyes:

"The ships' main shuttlebay was located on deck twelve. Behind the shuttlebay was a large flight deck, allowing small craft too large for the shuttle bay to land"

It says flight deck and that is straight from the wiki...if that is incorrect thats not my fault I'm just going by what I read.

I have plenty of KDF characters...more than I do feds. If that wiki did not say what it said I would of never even brought it up. But the wiki says flight deck so I'm allowed to dream and voice my own opinion am I not?

rrincy · October 2012

wiki's are never a 100% accurate source , since anyone can change them
nowhere in the books is the vesta used as a carrier craft , ergo , it isnt .

besides , even going by what you linked , where does it mention fighters ?
' ships larger than a shuttlecraft ' is more likely going to mean shuttles belonging to dilomats , and first contact meetings held on-board ship

i know you'd like it to be a carrier mate , but seriously , it isnt

rrincy · October 2012

i knew what he was linking

and mem-beta is still based on the wiki format , anyone can edit pages if they get permission
cant remember where , but someone did an interior for the hanger deck , with its complement of three runabouts , but thats all that was in it.

its like i said to him before , if the vesta is a carrier , that makes the galaxy a carrier , or the odyssey etc etc

jcsww · October 2012

If it's not a cruiser with those Experimental Mk XII Cannon's, then I'll pass on the ship. The game may be short some science ships but that doesn't mean they should start turing cruisers into science ships.

ussultimatum · October 2012

tenkari wrote: »

it's been said several times by devs that its going to be a sci ship that can mount cannons.

f2pdrakron wrote: »

Because in the BOOKS the ship have cannons,

Do the books specify dual cannons or just cannons (I've never read them)?

Because all ships can mount "cannons" in this game, just not Dual or Dual Heavy cannons.

Have the devs said that this ship will specifically be able to mount DC/DHCs?

rrincy · October 2012

the ship has paired cannons just under the bow , so id assume dual cannons at least

leviathan99 · October 2012

f2pdrakron wrote: »

Just cannons because "Dual Cannons" is just Cryptic, the Defiant did not had "Quad" Cannons either, it had 4 Cannons ... its just a way for Cryptic to make Dual Cannons restricted to some ships.

Also here is artwork from the ship designer himself.

http://www.ewe-squad.com/vestathird.jpg

As you can see, those are clearly Cryptic's Dual cannons opening fire (I think the Armitage spots a similar cannon mount in the front for the dual cannon fire animation) and also we can see 3 Phaser beams firing from the Phaser Strip as it broadsides what I think its Borg ship.

Well, the Galor has heavy pulse weapons too and they didn't give it DHC ability, even though the D'Kora got them.

lianthelia · October 2012

I don't exactly know if its completely accurate since I haven't had a chance to read the books, but I would like to some day I think. Already back at least 3 books I been meaning to read. >.<

I'm not a huge fan of the Atrox...since I already got a Vo'quv and they are almost identical. Not a huge fan of escorts and the Armitage because to me escorts feel like a flying cannon and nothing else. I know escorts will always do the best dps, thats why I like carriers...the fighters make up for some dps. I also don't take a standard sci or cruiser without it having a lt cmdr tac.

But anyways what wrong with me dreaming? I was just using the info that I had at the time, if its wrong then its wrong I guess, its not my fault its wrong...its not like I wrote or modded that in there. :P

levi3 · October 2012

Again why has this Thread about the VESTA - and not a screen shot - not been moved to Fed Shipyards and mine was? Am I being singled out by the Mods?

leviathan99 · October 2012

f2pdrakron wrote: »

I think the reason is nobody knows what the hell that was, it was only in the "Ensign Ro" Episode and even the episode script does not know.

DS9TM says it have a "one large aft disruptor wave cannon" but considering they already got the spiral-wave disruptors I guess giving two weapons to the ship was perhaps a bit too much and they just left it as it is, the D'Kora come after and with the Lobi Store and the 200$-300$ Sets.

There are shots of it in DS9 using the deflector as a pulse cannon.

rrincy · October 2012

they never seemed to make their mind up when it comes to the galor lol

standupguy86 · October 2012

lianthelia wrote: »

Then lets face it if your doing a beam build your better off with a Odyssey or Assault Cruiser Retrofit then...2 more beams.

To be brutally honest I ask what is the point of this ship then? If a escort can do better with cannons and a cruiser better with beams then what really do we need a Vesta for?

I know people hate carriers but I still with it were possible they went with some of the ideas I had...I mean with what the wiki says about the Vesta...they are possible.

Use it for its purpose? I know thats such a hard concept for people to imagine now a days. But a dedicated Science Build can and will tear things apart in this game. DPS does not need to be King..its only King right now because people allow it to be.

Vesta Class: Speculation and Discussion

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