Yeah, I don't understand the time argument, myself. There was a time in MMO history when it would take months of playing, and monthly paying, just to get to level-cap. No one ever purchased a game assuming they could get to level cap in a week - let alone a double XP weekend. People were accustomed to spending months getting to end-game, spending months grinding the raids to get full sets of purple gear, etc. Now it's like everyone only wants Immediate Gratification: if they can't have it in a month they just don't want it; and the game's a piece of TRIBBLE for making them earn it in a longer period of time.
From a guy who's got a a lifetime fleet credits count of 2.5 million on his main... I will say that yes this starbase grind is getting ridiculous.
After Tier 3 I'm just going to outright stop, only make enough fleet marks to buy doffs to sell on the exchange.
I'm just so sick of the climbing costs of building everything. Especially DOffs! Each tier doubles the cost on everything for the same amount of xp, which is really frustrating. Wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't exponential. You try finding 60 security officers for under 100k while dreading the fact that the next tier will need 180 of those expensive TRIBBLE!
Sad part is my fleetmates burned out lot sooner than I did. I'm a hell of a grinder. I put up with the multiple months grinding STF's just to get my Mk XII gear. I can say that I am resilient as hell when it comes to a grind.
But I finally found a grind that kicked my TRIBBLE.
So once I hit tier 3... that's it. I'm done. I can't do this all on my own.
I thought of recruiting more, but it defeated the point of my small fleet. It isn't even mine... it belongs to a fellow PBEM sim mate. My fleet consists of people that we know, and we only refer people that we know into our fleet, hence the small size. It's made for a close knit and friendly group, but it also means that we cannot possibly get the resources to make a top tier starbase.
I did all this atrocious grinding for their sake... so that when they play the game they have a kick TRIBBLE starbase, a premade infrastructure already ready for my fellow PBEM sim mates and for my IRL friends who want to be introduced into the game.
It sucks though. It feels like there's yet another thing in this game that is out of my reach and it feels like I've failed to deliver for my friends.
Alright, enough rant. In short.
-Solo or small groups of a half dozen players have no hope in hell of reaching beyond tier III.
-Even large fleets of 30+ members will be stressing their asses trying to get to Tier V.
-It therefore stands to reason that the starbase grind was made waaaaayyyyy too big.
The grind really is almost just as bad for a large fleet, I haven't stated the actual size of my fleet, but we easily have 50 members who are active and farming for the starbase, more than that most likely but that's a lowball number. We shouldn't be getting hung up on any part of the starbase, alot of us are already losing hope that things will get better, and the fact that we aren't even getting any more exp for the same projects but having to farm twice and three times as much is making us not care whether we finish the starbase or not.
Tried to explain the concept of a starbase minion(no the owner/leader) to a Walmart minion - er employee
So you build the super store for the guy - for free - no pay
then you spend more time and money filling the store - owned by the guy - for free
then you spend more time and money to buy stuff from the store!
The Walmart employee - "And I thought working for Walmart was a rip-off and scam - these skycastles clearly make Walmart look like an employee's paridise"
What item or feature are you farming for ? I really don't get it...
The largest fleet ships cost 4 modules @ 500 zen points + 10,000 missions played.
If I have 2000 zen points already, why would I go out and play 10,000 missions for the same item.
Then you got body armor that equipped will remove feats your maco and omega grant, such as faster remodulation.
A new secondary weapon well maybe, but 10 k dil for + 2 dps you know won't change my game drastically.
I felt the same way about the duty officer system. When it came out in season 5 I though "If I get to tier 4 on a commendation what do I get, another doff. It is a self feeding system." At the time I saw no point. I played with it a bit but never focused. Latter on the doffs started to get more abilities and types. They also produced more doff chains. One of the main ones was child toys. This proved useful for mk xii consoles. They also improve space combat and even more types to apply to the ship. I found myself playing catchup back in march.
I know a person to invested heavily into the doff system at the beginning and he made a lot of ec out of it and has a lot of cool toys on his ship.
When I look at the starbases I know you are right about them being expensive with no clear advantage at this point but over time they will add things to it. The already made it clear that the next holding of a fleet is the embassy and that it ties into a new player ranking system as well. I also don't know how it will tie into the current starbase. I also don't know what items they will add to the starbase store for use to use those provisions since any fleet at tier 3 is in excess of provisions.
I just have no intentions of playing catch up again.
Also please keep in mind that the science path currently has the most sustainable advantage over time with the transwarp conduit. Anyone with diplomacy tier 4 or even an excelsior knows the more point you can go the faster you can do what you need to.
Just the 1.7 million dilth alone to upgrade fully to T3 is crazy - let alone the doff requirements - and before someone says you can do assignments for dilth but lower xp - I day Dilth sink again
Are fleet members now willing to contribute everything bu dilth given dilth high cost and scare avail = no advancement for most fleets
T4 is going to be a dilth sink "HOLE" - get out the army of bulldozers
Add to that that it's 150 assognments to T4 - and each assignemnt is what - 1000+ fleet marks - get out your super grinding hats on - fleet leaders will have to be like the Russians at Stalingrad - standing behind their members/soldiers ready to shoot them if they turn back from the grind.
So is T3 the end of the line for most fleets????
WTF 1.7 million dil for t3 looooooooooooool FAIL!!!!
Imagine doing that on ya own.. 8k max dil a day 1.7 mill needed, thats 212 days of ntohign but dil grinding for 1 project...
Ok, think im starting to lose interest in the starbase thing now.
So...am I the only who's figured it out by now?
Don't you see...?
Stabases are what Cryptic hopes will keep players online.
It's perfect...players spend money and time to grind for stuff for their Starbases and Cryptic doesn't have to pay any Developers for new mission content...they can sit back and count the money while the players who are so blinded by the "must have T5 StarBase" syndrome grind mindlessly the same few missions hundreds and hundreds of time.
Don't worry, tho...they'll keep introducing new ships for you to spend more money on so the same mission you've done 500 times already will feel different because you doing it in a new ship.
And of course, lockboxes will be plentiful...
My fleet is still going strong, we are almost at T3 on everything and are making good speed.
We are currently 450+ members that are actively contributing to the projects and estimate that we will hit full T5 in March/April 2013.
When the starbases got added we knew that it would be something that requires teamwork and time (lots of time) not to mention quite some planning from the commanding officers of the fleet to make things work as fairly as possible for everyone in the fleet (thanks to lack of starbase management from Cryptic).
Some improvements that we would like to see in starbase management are:
1. Better permissions settings for the provisional stores (members can't buy items that doesn't take a provision if the "provisional store" settings isn't marked in fleet settings).
2. Allow fleets to put a cap on each individual provision that members can buy per day/week/month. Example: allow to buy use 1 fleet ship provision and 2 engineering provisions per month.
3. Allow fleets to put hard caps on how many fleet credits each member can gain per day.
4. Better UI in the provisional stores that shows exactly what is needed to buy the different items (what takes a provision and what doesn't since not all items take provisions).
I hope someone from Cryptic will read this and take notes, it will save us from allot of administrative work just to run the starbase in a fair manner for our members.
12th-Fleet
Enterprise-D
Fleet Admiral
I have to 2nd everything this guy has asked for. Only those running large fleets know of these problems. When you have a large fleet the management of that fleet increases, you have more people asking you questions, asking for different permissions etc... It can take a lot of time away from grinding yourself.
WTF 1.7 million dil for t3 looooooooooooool FAIL!!!!
Imagine doing that on ya own.. 8k max dil a day 1.7 mill needed, thats 212 days of ntohign but dil grinding for 1 project...
Ok, think im starting to lose interest in the starbase thing now.
CRYPIC/PWE = Serious fail!!!!
I make between 500,000 and 600,000 Dilithium every month just playing around 2 hours per day - I earn more if I play more. Levi3, the person who started this thread, makes 60,000 Dilithium per day - and you can refine it all. The 8,000 limit is per character, not per account. So by himself Levi3 can make enough Dilithium for that 1.7 million project in a month - while it would take me about 3 months.
Also, as has been said about a dozen times in this thread alone, the Fleetbase system was designed for an average of 25 players all contributing to the projects together - and the entire process was expected to take around 7 months with 25 casual players. Smaller Fleets either need to play more then the expected 3 hours per day 2-3 times a week or they will need to expect to take longer then 7 months.
And just so there's no confusion, there are Fleets that have T4 shipyards already in the game. I've hear of people seeing Aquarius Destroyers in the game from those Shipyards last week. So it's nowhere near impossible.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Right, cause Larger fleets MUST not have the capacity for individuals to get to know each other. Very inciteful of you.
My Fleet is 500 + and we dont operate as a large number of minions. You dont believe me go check out our site. The Fleet is broken down into Divisions, those Divisions are then broken down further into Squadrons. Each Division is organized and oriented toward a specific gamestyle. If youre into PvP you go into the Division for that, if youre into Roleplay you can join the Division for that as well. And the great thing is, you dont have to be in a specific Division to participate. We also operate on TS.
So this argument that Large fleets are just full of mindless minions building a castle is just your way of silencing those who might have a difference of opinion on the matter. You can personally dismiss those opinions. But considering Cryptics stand on Fleets, and the layout of Tiers for Starbases. Its you who has a very tiny voice, and its you who arent going to be heard over the 'legions of minions'.
Are you the guys that have been joining other ppls fleets just to recruit their members to your fleet, reason why I ask if because you say you split your fleet into divisions. This sounds very familiar to a fleet that keeps trying to recruit our fleet members from within
There are way more players divided among the small fleets than there are in mega fleets. If they drive away the small fleets, the game will die.
500 man fleets are garbage, most of the people in a fleet that large never even talk to or associate with 90% of the fleet base.
I've been playing mmos for about 10 years and I have never once seen a a fleet that large that doesn't have an egomaniac at the top, no recruitment standards and drama.
I think applying a work place environment to a online game enviroment as a comparison is completely bogus.
The real question is how many of the fleet leaders minions building his castle does he
a)know
b)communicate with daily
c)participte in activities with
d)what is the turn-over rate now
those are real questions I want to know about the so-called "egomaniacs"
I started our fleet, I'm the only fleet founder in the fleet.
I didn't know 1 person when I started playing STO. (beta) I'm offline friends with a couple of fleet members, that's only because they joined STO through my word of mouth.
We have 300 or so fleet members, so one could argue I don't really know anyone in our fleet.
Does that mean I can't manage the fleet? no certinaly not. lol
Does that even mean the fleet is garbage, nope not in my eyes.
TBH
I would prefer someone that never spoke in fleet chat, never caused an issue, never moaned about anything, just contribute his/her little bit to the project and got their shiney for it. Rather than an over active fleet chatter wanting to be cliquey with other fleet members...
You'll just end up with a little clique of players that usually think they can do it better and leave to make their own fleet.
They also usual rob the fleet stores when they leave and recruit as many members of your fleet as they can to get their fleet going.
Funny how they hate you and your fleet, but want most of the active members from it. I bet they would even let you join if you disolved your fleet as a result.
Ack, so much for getting the fleet advanced escort, which require a Tier 4 shipyard, even though I have all the other items required for it I'm part of a small fleet, and just getting anything that require random DOffs or several projects that require Dilithium can be a chore at times for casual players. But I guess them are the breaks for a casual, small fleet.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I don't care how long you've been playing. I only care about how you play.
And remember to follow the rules.
But considering Cryptics stand on Fleets, and the layout of Tiers for Starbases. Its you who has a very tiny voice, and its you who arent going to be heard over the 'legions of minions'.
Would that be the stand that any fleet with 25 or more members is a large fleet, and that those fleets are the vast minority?
Finally reaching Teir 2 with my fleet and we are stopping.
The Grinding, the PuGs, the Griefers in Fleet Events, the Bad Fleet Rewards, and just general frustration has is at a level this Starbase system is just no longer fun or worth the effort.
After pretty good first impressions I must now say that I am seriously disappointed with the Starbase development, and agree that Tier 3 is basically it for most smaller fleets (5-30 members).
The requirements for all projects are ridiculous (like 60 uncommon and 120 common doffs of specific profession - good luck with that), they reward the same amount of xp (500-1000) and on top of all that to reach Tier 4 we need to earn twice the amount of xp we've acumulated by completing previous Tiers with way cheaper projects...
We've been told that the system is created in such a way that smaller fleets wouldn't be left behind. Yet I don't see how just several people are supposed to keep with all the required FM, Dilithium, or duty officers, especially since they drop randomly and some categories are more frequent than others (just 3 security types and 4 medical types - good luck collecting 120 of them for just 1000xp...).
"Use the exchange", you say? Why sure, would be great if Cryptic wouldn't constantly keep messing with the Fleet Duty Officers, like making them not usable for fleet projects for quite some time, or giving them completely wrong categories (like Armory Officer from Tactical department, not security). Also, small fleets, good luck earning the EC required for all these doffs, which prices reach ridiculous amounts recently.
Perhaps it's supposed to be difficult. Perhaps it's supposed to be slow. Personally I just don't see the point, being in not that large of a fleet. Reaching Tier 4 alone in any category is going to take us ages, considering many people are not that devoted and just play an hour or two in their spare time. Many others may not even take part in sb development in a few months, seeing no progress or encouraging rewards. Ships? The game is too easy as it is and you can do just fine with what's available for free - the rest are only toys. And if you really want something OP, then save all the EC you would otherwise spend on doffs or other base requirements, and buy yourself any lock box ship - with already buffed stats and no fleet requirements. Other starbase benefits are really nothing special tbh, as even the Elite Fleet weapons happened to be worthless.
And now we hear that Season 7 is going to introduce yet another fleet holding - no doubt with even more ways to drain players out of their zen/dilithium/EC/items. And with so little ways to actually play, the game has become one huge grind with little to no mission variety.
For me the fix still seems to be, make the tiers less expensive, but the provisions much more expensive. Expensive in both resources to gain the provision allotments (the true fleet size equalizer), and the fleet credits to buy the stuff (forcing individuals to actually contribute a great deal to be rewarded.)
Who cares if the 500 man fleet gets tier 5 in two months, they can't use it for anything because to get enough provisions it would cost them lots of time and resources. The FC cost should increase greatly because that would require the individual to contribute to get their reward and force the optional missions to truly pull their weight. In my 300+ fleet we are not running optional missions so we can save up for tier 4 and on. There is a decent amount of disparity between those that contribute and those that don't. I only hope those not contributing are saving up.
Really this was not played out prior to implementation and the lack of information on what is expected for the later tiers and the fact that sto wiki is giving us the info seems lame. Like Starfleet is unaware of how much stuff goes into one of its starbases.
I don't even leave Starfleet Academy except for quick runs out to the freighter and back for commodities. I can doff farm there, join mark missions, and buy the commodities. The only thing I really lack is dilithium, but the marks make up for it.
Other options include increasing the ways to earn marks, like non-CXP linked doff missions, multiday doff missions for CXP earning that doesn't require me to log in multiple times between meals, and crafting items that give marks/run humanitarian mission for marks. Funny how the Federation really only gives marks for killing people.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
You're worried about marks still? Ever since the Daily Officer Report started dropping marks again, I have the stuff coming out of my ears. There's literally nothing to do with them because the fleet projects consume only a few thousand before being full, then bottlenecking on the arbitrary doff requirements and the dilithium. Considering how much dilithium is used, I'd expect the base to be plated in purple crystal.
But no complaints here: High dilithium demand keeps prices down and Zen affordable, or else the game would become pay-to-win.
The only reason for the high dilithium requirement is to prevent huge amounts of dilithium flowing into the exchange and prevent more people form buying "free" C-Store items. If there wasn't this dilithium sink, then the C-store wouldn't profit and the Exchange would soon have a shortage of Zen as Zen buyers will keep their Zen because dilithum would be "worthless".
Just saying, my theory is that with Dilithium currently at 154 or lower on the exchange, Starbases has brought about a recession in the STO economy (in-game).
Now keep in mind, lots of people do well and lots of people don't do well in a recession of the STO economy- Cryptic being one group that does really well because the value of Zen is low in the economy. Less value for Zen means more Zen is needed...
I would argue Dilithium is currently going through an inflation cycle in the economy, which is why Dilithium farmers and folks in big fleets who are spending less (relatively) on Starbases per person are doing well, while many other folks who struggle to get ahead in the Dilithium economy are hurting.
Something for folks to think about, you didn't really expect to undertake an enormous defense project like Starbases and expect no economic impact, did you? Art reflects reality, as folks move from being Starbase producers - for whatever reason including burnout- and become Starbase suppliers they will find themselves getting ahead again, afterall defense contractors and suppliers always do well when defense purchasing is high.
Well of course, pretty much the only things people really looked forward to is the Fleet Defiant and the Fleet Vor'cha and some are rather excited about Elite Weapons too.
But the only ones prospering now are the large fleets that have a surplus of players willing to donate their Dilithum, while the rest of us just had our years of savings burnt up overnight, no real benefits to show for it.
But the only ones prospering now are the large fleets that have a surplus of players willing to donate their Dilithum, while the rest of us just had our years of savings burnt up overnight, no real benefits to show for it.
That is how I see it as well, although I'll admit I have found unexpected uses for the Starbase as it gets to Tier VI, particularly as it relates to the DOFF system.
Tier 3 will be my limit. Just finished tier 2 across the board. Also just saw the requirements for tier 4 and it is not going to happen. I will take my time with tier 3.
Starbase to Tier IV. 10d
24,000 Fleet Mark
1,900,000 Refined dilithium
200 Non-Civilian Duty Officers
25,000 [Industrial Energy Cells]
15,625 [Self Sealing Stem Bolts]
250 Particle Traces
Starbase's Shipyard to Tier IV. 10d
12,000 Fleet Mark
900,000 Refined dilithium
100 Tactical or Security Duty Officers
12,200 [Industrial Replicators]
21,000 [Shield Generators]
800 [Self Sealing Stem Bolts]
Starbase's Industrial Fabricator to Tier IV. 10d
12,000 Fleet Mark
900,000 Refined dilithium
100 Engineering or Operations Duty Officers
7,625 [Industrial Replicators]
10,000 [Industrial Energy Cells]
3,000 [Self Sealing Stem Bolts]
There is no work on the transwarp conduit or communications array on Stowiki.
To me tier 3 is doable. But this is way too much for me.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Tier 3 will be my limit. Just finished tier 2 across the board. Also just saw the requirements for tier 4 and it is not going to happen. I will take my time with tier 3.
Starbase to Tier IV. 10d
24,000 Fleet Mark
1,900,000 Refined dilithium
200 Non-Civilian Duty Officers
25,000 [Industrial Energy Cells]
15,625 [Self Sealing Stem Bolts]
250 Particle Traces
Starbase's Shipyard to Tier IV. 10d
12,000 Fleet Mark
900,000 Refined dilithium
100 Tactical or Security Duty Officers
12,200 [Industrial Replicators]
21,000 [Shield Generators]
800 [Self Sealing Stem Bolts]
Starbase's Industrial Fabricator to Tier IV. 10d
12,000 Fleet Mark
900,000 Refined dilithium
100 Engineering or Operations Duty Officers
7,625 [Industrial Replicators]
10,000 [Industrial Energy Cells]
3,000 [Self Sealing Stem Bolts]
There is no work on the transwarp conduit or communications array on Stowiki.
To me tier 3 is doable. But this is way too much for me.
Like you, I'm now entering Tier 3 and almost done with my Tier 2 constructions. Currently building my Tier 2 Starbase (will have the points to begin the project in a few minutes), and my KDF Starbase is now working on the Tier 2 Starbase. Will focus on the Tactical Branch to Tier 3 and build the Starbase. (Should have plenty of Dilithium and Fleet Mark Reserved saved up on my alternates).
But seeing these numbers for Tier 4, nooo way I will be seeing that as a soloist, would literally take me over a year to get that far. Truely a long, long-term project.
BTW, looking at the STOWiki, what's with the Klingons having to pay 2 extra VR DOFFs for the Personnel NPC?
Comments
But, but... what if you hav e a life?
You're not supposed to stall out at T3 or grind the hell out of it...
You are supposed to pay real money for Zen and then exchange this for Dilithium...
If anything the prices will go UP if they see that to many people are just mindlessly grinding!
I've stated as much in my thread as well http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=5667391&posted=1#post5667391
The grind really is almost just as bad for a large fleet, I haven't stated the actual size of my fleet, but we easily have 50 members who are active and farming for the starbase, more than that most likely but that's a lowball number. We shouldn't be getting hung up on any part of the starbase, alot of us are already losing hope that things will get better, and the fact that we aren't even getting any more exp for the same projects but having to farm twice and three times as much is making us not care whether we finish the starbase or not.
What item or feature are you farming for ? I really don't get it...
The largest fleet ships cost 4 modules @ 500 zen points + 10,000 missions played.
If I have 2000 zen points already, why would I go out and play 10,000 missions for the same item.
Then you got body armor that equipped will remove feats your maco and omega grant, such as faster remodulation.
A new secondary weapon well maybe, but 10 k dil for + 2 dps you know won't change my game drastically.
Tried to explain the concept of a starbase minion(no the owner/leader) to a Walmart minion - er employee
So you build the super store for the guy - for free - no pay
then you spend more time and money filling the store - owned by the guy - for free
then you spend more time and money to buy stuff from the store!
The Walmart employee - "And I thought working for Walmart was a rip-off and scam - these skycastles clearly make Walmart look like an employee's paridise"
I felt the same way about the duty officer system. When it came out in season 5 I though "If I get to tier 4 on a commendation what do I get, another doff. It is a self feeding system." At the time I saw no point. I played with it a bit but never focused. Latter on the doffs started to get more abilities and types. They also produced more doff chains. One of the main ones was child toys. This proved useful for mk xii consoles. They also improve space combat and even more types to apply to the ship. I found myself playing catchup back in march.
I know a person to invested heavily into the doff system at the beginning and he made a lot of ec out of it and has a lot of cool toys on his ship.
When I look at the starbases I know you are right about them being expensive with no clear advantage at this point but over time they will add things to it. The already made it clear that the next holding of a fleet is the embassy and that it ties into a new player ranking system as well. I also don't know how it will tie into the current starbase. I also don't know what items they will add to the starbase store for use to use those provisions since any fleet at tier 3 is in excess of provisions.
I just have no intentions of playing catch up again.
Also please keep in mind that the science path currently has the most sustainable advantage over time with the transwarp conduit. Anyone with diplomacy tier 4 or even an excelsior knows the more point you can go the faster you can do what you need to.
WTF 1.7 million dil for t3 looooooooooooool FAIL!!!!
Imagine doing that on ya own.. 8k max dil a day 1.7 mill needed, thats 212 days of ntohign but dil grinding for 1 project...
Ok, think im starting to lose interest in the starbase thing now.
CRYPIC/PWE = Serious fail!!!!
This guy knows the score
I have to 2nd everything this guy has asked for. Only those running large fleets know of these problems. When you have a large fleet the management of that fleet increases, you have more people asking you questions, asking for different permissions etc... It can take a lot of time away from grinding yourself.
Also, as has been said about a dozen times in this thread alone, the Fleetbase system was designed for an average of 25 players all contributing to the projects together - and the entire process was expected to take around 7 months with 25 casual players. Smaller Fleets either need to play more then the expected 3 hours per day 2-3 times a week or they will need to expect to take longer then 7 months.
And just so there's no confusion, there are Fleets that have T4 shipyards already in the game. I've hear of people seeing Aquarius Destroyers in the game from those Shipyards last week. So it's nowhere near impossible.
Are you the guys that have been joining other ppls fleets just to recruit their members to your fleet, reason why I ask if because you say you split your fleet into divisions. This sounds very familiar to a fleet that keeps trying to recruit our fleet members from within
Most ironic thing I've read on the forums today
I started our fleet, I'm the only fleet founder in the fleet.
I didn't know 1 person when I started playing STO. (beta) I'm offline friends with a couple of fleet members, that's only because they joined STO through my word of mouth.
We have 300 or so fleet members, so one could argue I don't really know anyone in our fleet.
Does that mean I can't manage the fleet? no certinaly not. lol
Does that even mean the fleet is garbage, nope not in my eyes.
TBH
I would prefer someone that never spoke in fleet chat, never caused an issue, never moaned about anything, just contribute his/her little bit to the project and got their shiney for it. Rather than an over active fleet chatter wanting to be cliquey with other fleet members...
You'll just end up with a little clique of players that usually think they can do it better and leave to make their own fleet.
They also usual rob the fleet stores when they leave and recruit as many members of your fleet as they can to get their fleet going.
Funny how they hate you and your fleet, but want most of the active members from it. I bet they would even let you join if you disolved your fleet as a result.
Not enough new content.... it is that simple.
Hopefully the Starbase content/system will be expanded for Season 7 and beyond to keep things rolling.
<sigh>
Delirium Tremens
Tier 4 Starbase, Tier 3 Embassy
http://dtfleet.com/
I don't care how long you've been playing. I only care about how you play.
And remember to follow the rules.
Would that be the stand that any fleet with 25 or more members is a large fleet, and that those fleets are the vast minority?
The Grinding, the PuGs, the Griefers in Fleet Events, the Bad Fleet Rewards, and just general frustration has is at a level this Starbase system is just no longer fun or worth the effort.
So fleets that far, hats off to you.
The requirements for all projects are ridiculous (like 60 uncommon and 120 common doffs of specific profession - good luck with that), they reward the same amount of xp (500-1000) and on top of all that to reach Tier 4 we need to earn twice the amount of xp we've acumulated by completing previous Tiers with way cheaper projects...
We've been told that the system is created in such a way that smaller fleets wouldn't be left behind. Yet I don't see how just several people are supposed to keep with all the required FM, Dilithium, or duty officers, especially since they drop randomly and some categories are more frequent than others (just 3 security types and 4 medical types - good luck collecting 120 of them for just 1000xp...).
"Use the exchange", you say? Why sure, would be great if Cryptic wouldn't constantly keep messing with the Fleet Duty Officers, like making them not usable for fleet projects for quite some time, or giving them completely wrong categories (like Armory Officer from Tactical department, not security). Also, small fleets, good luck earning the EC required for all these doffs, which prices reach ridiculous amounts recently.
Perhaps it's supposed to be difficult. Perhaps it's supposed to be slow. Personally I just don't see the point, being in not that large of a fleet. Reaching Tier 4 alone in any category is going to take us ages, considering many people are not that devoted and just play an hour or two in their spare time. Many others may not even take part in sb development in a few months, seeing no progress or encouraging rewards. Ships? The game is too easy as it is and you can do just fine with what's available for free - the rest are only toys. And if you really want something OP, then save all the EC you would otherwise spend on doffs or other base requirements, and buy yourself any lock box ship - with already buffed stats and no fleet requirements. Other starbase benefits are really nothing special tbh, as even the Elite Fleet weapons happened to be worthless.
And now we hear that Season 7 is going to introduce yet another fleet holding - no doubt with even more ways to drain players out of their zen/dilithium/EC/items. And with so little ways to actually play, the game has become one huge grind with little to no mission variety.
Who cares if the 500 man fleet gets tier 5 in two months, they can't use it for anything because to get enough provisions it would cost them lots of time and resources. The FC cost should increase greatly because that would require the individual to contribute to get their reward and force the optional missions to truly pull their weight. In my 300+ fleet we are not running optional missions so we can save up for tier 4 and on. There is a decent amount of disparity between those that contribute and those that don't. I only hope those not contributing are saving up.
Really this was not played out prior to implementation and the lack of information on what is expected for the later tiers and the fact that sto wiki is giving us the info seems lame. Like Starfleet is unaware of how much stuff goes into one of its starbases.
I don't even leave Starfleet Academy except for quick runs out to the freighter and back for commodities. I can doff farm there, join mark missions, and buy the commodities. The only thing I really lack is dilithium, but the marks make up for it.
Other options include increasing the ways to earn marks, like non-CXP linked doff missions, multiday doff missions for CXP earning that doesn't require me to log in multiple times between meals, and crafting items that give marks/run humanitarian mission for marks. Funny how the Federation really only gives marks for killing people.
But no complaints here: High dilithium demand keeps prices down and Zen affordable, or else the game would become pay-to-win.
Just saying, my theory is that with Dilithium currently at 154 or lower on the exchange, Starbases has brought about a recession in the STO economy (in-game).
Now keep in mind, lots of people do well and lots of people don't do well in a recession of the STO economy- Cryptic being one group that does really well because the value of Zen is low in the economy. Less value for Zen means more Zen is needed...
I would argue Dilithium is currently going through an inflation cycle in the economy, which is why Dilithium farmers and folks in big fleets who are spending less (relatively) on Starbases per person are doing well, while many other folks who struggle to get ahead in the Dilithium economy are hurting.
Something for folks to think about, you didn't really expect to undertake an enormous defense project like Starbases and expect no economic impact, did you? Art reflects reality, as folks move from being Starbase producers - for whatever reason including burnout- and become Starbase suppliers they will find themselves getting ahead again, afterall defense contractors and suppliers always do well when defense purchasing is high.
Rules of Acquisition at Priority One
I am sure a lot of people who were starting to give up 3 weeks ago have carried on since the 50 FM was added to the officer report.
But you can certainly tell from the chatter on the forums that starbases have lost a LOT of their "yeah were getting bases" pre-launch
But the only ones prospering now are the large fleets that have a surplus of players willing to donate their Dilithum, while the rest of us just had our years of savings burnt up overnight, no real benefits to show for it.
That is how I see it as well, although I'll admit I have found unexpected uses for the Starbase as it gets to Tier VI, particularly as it relates to the DOFF system.
Rules of Acquisition at Priority One
Starbase to Tier IV. 10d
24,000 Fleet Mark
1,900,000 Refined dilithium
200 Non-Civilian Duty Officers
25,000 [Industrial Energy Cells]
15,625 [Self Sealing Stem Bolts]
250 Particle Traces
Starbase's Shipyard to Tier IV. 10d
12,000 Fleet Mark
900,000 Refined dilithium
100 Tactical or Security Duty Officers
12,200 [Industrial Replicators]
21,000 [Shield Generators]
800 [Self Sealing Stem Bolts]
Starbase's Industrial Fabricator to Tier IV. 10d
12,000 Fleet Mark
900,000 Refined dilithium
100 Engineering or Operations Duty Officers
7,625 [Industrial Replicators]
10,000 [Industrial Energy Cells]
3,000 [Self Sealing Stem Bolts]
There is no work on the transwarp conduit or communications array on Stowiki.
To me tier 3 is doable. But this is way too much for me.
Thanks for posting the full requirements for those two things though.
I will say that the Comm Array and Transwarp Conduit will probably be along the lines of 'different ****, same numbers' on what they will need.
Its unknown if those are going to increase in Dilithium
I could see the price of the projects go down by half after a year.
Like you, I'm now entering Tier 3 and almost done with my Tier 2 constructions. Currently building my Tier 2 Starbase (will have the points to begin the project in a few minutes), and my KDF Starbase is now working on the Tier 2 Starbase. Will focus on the Tactical Branch to Tier 3 and build the Starbase. (Should have plenty of Dilithium and Fleet Mark Reserved saved up on my alternates).
But seeing these numbers for Tier 4, nooo way I will be seeing that as a soloist, would literally take me over a year to get that far. Truely a long, long-term project.
BTW, looking at the STOWiki, what's with the Klingons having to pay 2 extra VR DOFFs for the Personnel NPC?