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So Is Tier 3 Starbase the End of the Line?

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  • rohirrimrohirrim Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    eldarion79 wrote: »
    As a former member of 12th Fleet, I will say I enjoyed the community and teamwork with the various divisions, however, that fleet is run by a privileged few who do back door meetings about members and they are the ones who generally get the good stuff.


    We do meetings about trouble makers and how to deal with them, but that is thankfully only happening once every few months.

    "Privileged few", many of them has been elected by each representative division.

    "they are the ones who generally get the good stuff", no idea where you got this from.
    Everyone has access to the same bank tabs, everyone has equal chance to get something from the provisioned starbase stores, everyone has equal chance to get a group, everyone has equal chance to contribute to the starbase.

    Everyone in the fleet is allowed to voice their opinions as long as it is a constructive and non-flaming post, everyone can make suggestions and everyone can speak up during monthly fleet meetings and believe it or not we are taking everything into consideration.


    That said I have no idea who you are because of the forum changes on STO so I have no idea if you where a recruit or a full member or someone we kicked because of drama, but I would appreciate if you wouldn't post false statements about the fleet even if you hold grudges against us.
    12th-Feet
    Fleet Admiral Enterprise-D
  • eldarion79eldarion79 Member Posts: 1,679 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I was not kicked out. I left because I don't agree on how the 12th Fleet handled members who may have did something wrong or they haven't. Like I said, I was with the fleet for over a year, and when you have secret meetings about members, who are not even invited to stand up for themselves, and dictate punishment without even having the full facts, you take the fun out of the game.

    I rather not be a part of that. When I say privileged few, these are the few who not elected because when I left, no admirals are elected (unless the election is behind closed doors) but they were appointed.

    However, I misspoke about the min fleet by five, either way, the fleet system was not made for one person to do all the work. So, I say to the OP, join a fleet in order to ease that burden.
  • roadghostroadghost Member Posts: 394 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I'm in a small fleet. There are 8 of us, I have two characters in the fleet so that gives us 9 characters in the fleet. We have 4 VAs, the rest spread out in the Cmdr-RA range. I have two thoughts on this issue -

    First thought is - With all the complaints about 'no content' why do people race to get through what content there is, or complain about it taking too long to complete the content? So what if it takes years to build a starbase, it's something to do in game. Do a fleet action every day or so, throw some marks at it and it will happen. It's not a grind if you don't let it be one. There's lots of stuff to do in the game besides count whatever random currency gets introduced. Make a Klingon death dealer or an Orion love bunny.

    Second thought is - Wow, we must be doing it wrong. We are having fun, donating what we want when we want and our starbase hasn't even reached level 1 yet, maybe we'll get there this month, maybe not. From reading the complaints about starbases posted here, it seems there are some whose expectations are that everyone is supposed to ignore the rest of the game and focus solely on killing spiders over and over, or staring glassy eyed at your doff countdown clock so you can optimize every second of the day to score building credits. If that's what you are doing, then I can see why people are frustrated with the experience and want to give up. Ours is this funky unfinished shack floating around in space that we meet up at and hold NERVE TONIC (tm) fueled dance parties when we are all on at the same time. Dangit, that's our problem right there. When we are on together we socialize instead of grinding. I guess I'm being lax in my duties as fleet leader and putting fun first.
  • recksracerrecksracer Member Posts: 128 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    If you werent allowed to post your opinion. You wouldnt. But youre masquerading your opinions as facts.

    No one said anything about everyone knowing everyone. I said it isnt a loose based group of people who dont know each other.

    Heck, I work in an organization thats a good 800 people. And belong to a smaller group within that of 160. I know everyone within that 160 and I know atleast half of the rest. But then again, you might have a different opinion of 'knowing' each other.


    Youre the one that started making up 'facts' about fleet numbers and how they interact. The burden of proof is on you. "Open your eyes" is not proof of anything. You just cant admit you made it all up....Egomaniacs indeed.

    Nothing I wrote was "made up".

    Playing daily for a year is a very good way to determine what the population in the game is like.

    Im sure that many of the poeple in your fleet don't know most of the people in your fleet.
    it's just the nature of a large mmo guild.

    I and many others have no interest in a large garbage fleet like the ones you advocate.

    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek
  • commodoreshrvkcommodoreshrvk Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    ...I don't think many people have time to do exploring or pvp or things as such anymore. This is not a good trend.

    Ahh I think you hit it right on the mark. Remember Cryptic is now using "numerics" to determine gamplay and probably drive content (a.k.a the Klingon Content Conundrum).

    So by their logic they will say:
    • Most Players do the starbase events
    • Most players play STFs
    • Few Players do much exploring
    • Few Players PvP

    Thus, they may eventually say with their incredibly biased data set, "We are not revamping crafting because it is system of low use and we would not see a greater ROI." Just watch the same for PvP could arise.

    Point is Cryptic you need to go back and do your homework and see what other MMOs do better than you. You need to see and determine what are "must have" systems in an MMO. You need to do this sooner rather than later or this $25 ship, lockbox, and Zen conversion to dilithium joyride is going to come to a crashing halt.

    Back on topic, the Fed fleet I was in is still progressing into Tier 2, but as soon as the shipyard is unlocked we are done for all practical purposes. We may resume when the carrots are worth the grind, but most of us are now in STO maybe once a week if that. We are all playing other games that we find more enjoyable.
  • commodoreshrvkcommodoreshrvk Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    thecosmic1 wrote: »

    Keep in mind that although that was good data mining, Cryptic has nerfed two sources of earning dilithium from the DOFF system so that skews the model a little bit. How much? I can't answer that, it all depends on how much DOFF dismissing and DOFF contraband assignments were being turned in. Only Cryptic knows how much they just skewed the Starbase Construction system.
  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Keep in mind that although that was good data mining, Cryptic has nerfed two sources of earning dilithium from the DOFF system so that skews the model a little bit. How much? I can't answer that, it all depends on how much DOFF dismissing and DOFF contraband assignments were being turned in. Only Cryptic knows how much they just skewed the Starbase Construction system.

    Honestly, I don't know why Cryptic nerfed Dilithium like that, because it gives people less reason to participate in the Starbase system, especially at higher levels with the greater costs. (Dilithum costs is one major reason why I'm not going any further than Tier 3, its already too expensive).

    If they wanted to slow things down, they could've easily just increased the project timers.
  • levi3levi3 Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Honestly, I don't know why Cryptic nerfed Dilithium like that, because it gives people less reason to participate in the Starbase system, especially at higher levels with the greater costs. (Dilithum costs is one major reason why I'm not going any further than Tier 3, its already too expensive).

    If they wanted to slow things down, they could've easily just increased the project timers.

    This is a great point and they are making the grinding issue a BIG thing for smaller fleets - I am sure that most people would rather wait longer on Cooldoown timers then grind longer to get the resources

    It would not drive people away as they are just waiting longer for the reward but they can see it coming on a timer.

    Pure Dilth sink - nothing else. Anyone who thinks that they are much more than a big dilth sink - make you pay more for a 10% better ship that is CHARACTER bound and a few missions - is totally delusional.
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Really, all I think they need is a slow, cheap (in terms of in-game spending) but guaranteed source of progression that eats up a project slot for 30 days.

    Designed such that if you used these assignments, it would take maybe 15-20 months to finish.

    This way, people who are active will progress faster but no one STOPS progressing.

    Because it ties up an assignment slot for 30 days, an active fleet would avoid them.

    Maybe have it based around the model where you can have 3 of these active.

    So a VERY small fleet would use all slow assignments based around a 15-20 month completion model.

    A medium sized fleet would mix and match.

    A large fleet would tend to be held back and prefer daily assignments.
  • skurfskurf Member Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    levi3 wrote: »
    I think/hope my quote or response was to the guy saying he was in a fleet of 500 - yours being 127 is 1/4 of that.

    and yes I am getting starbase fatigue, however I have cut back substatially since the first 6 weeks - now I spend more time selling common doffs - like 200-300 a day

    Wow. From 1 tedious exercise to the next. Do you ever play this game for...you know...fun?
  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    skurf wrote: »
    Wow. From 1 tedious exercise to the next. Do you ever play this game for...you know...fun?

    In the other guys defense, STO has been becoming a system of one long grind to the other, with few respites of other content in between.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    In the other guys defense, STO has been becoming a system of one long grind to the other, with few respites of other content in between.
    Let's keep it in perspective, though. We lost almost a year of development time while Cryptic was secretly converting STO to FTP. So for a year we basically only received the Borg Red Alerts and the Deferi Invasion.

    Since FTP we've gotten a new KDF Mission, a new FE, and everything which has come in Seasons 5 and 6 - with the promise that Season 7 will have a new Zone, and we have a new STF coming. That's actually quite a bit in only a year of FTP - and if it wasn't for Gozer leaving Season 7 might have also brought a new PvP system.

    I'm not saying that game doesn't need tons more Mission Content - I've been arguing that since Closed Beta. I'm simply saying it's not quite as cut-and-dried as you're trying to make it sound in your post. Time-sink items (DOFFs and Fleetbases) are long-term game fillers while Mission Content is used in 10-20 minutes and then basically moved away from. The game needs long-term goals just as much as it needs immediate gratification Missions.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • anikaifulanikaiful Member Posts: 138
    edited September 2012
    recksracer wrote: »
    I've been playing mmos for about 10 years and I have never once seen a a fleet that large that doesn't have an egomaniac at the top, no recruitment standards and drama.

    Then you've been walking with your eyes closed. Congratulations.
  • commodoreshrvkcommodoreshrvk Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    Let's keep it in perspective, though. We lost almost a year of development time while Cryptic was secretly converting STO to FTP. So for a year we basically only received the Borg Red Alerts and the Deferi Invasion.

    Since FTP we've gotten a new KDF Mission, a new FE, and everything which has come in Seasons 5 and 6 - with the promise that Season 7 will have a new Zone, and we have a new STF coming. That's actually quite a bit in only a year of FTP - and if it wasn't for Gozer leaving Season 7 might have also brought a new PvP system.

    I'm not saying that game doesn't need tons more Mission Content - I've been arguing that since Closed Beta. I'm simply saying it's not quite as cut-and-dried as you're trying to make it sound in your post. Time-sink items (DOFFs and Fleetbases) are long-term game fillers while Mission Content is used in 10-20 minutes and then basically moved away from. The game needs long-term goals just as much as it needs immediate gratification Missions.

    There are also several other things that could be long-term game fillers that do not require as much grinding and could actually be more fun if they were actually developed. Three come to mind:
    • Crafting
    • Exploration
    • PvP

    Each one of those should have been a deeper more rich system than they are and if done like that would have provided a great deal of enjoyment at end-game. Two of those are MMO staples and the third (exploration) was really a chance for Cryptic to introduce a new game feature to the MMO market.

    However, Cryptic's idea of end-game is becoming quite apparent, grind the same few missions 100's of times. Don't get me wrong, I like the Fleet Starbase System at it's core, the artwork, and the creativity of the 6 events...but we really need more events,Fleet marks tied into the Fleet Actions, better functionality, more decortional control, and something to spend our FCs on (yes most of the items in the shops could have been better if statted differently or were different in some way). Instead we get reskins with a jumble of stats rather than new procs, etc... Oh, we also get the privilege to pay Cryptic $20.00 bucks for a ship we sunk a ton of resources and time into getting.

    In essence I feel the Fleet Starbase System was released half-finished, as usual, and likely not to really be touched very much again in the next year. Cryptic is good at one thing...promising big and delivering short. I seriously do not have great expectations for Season 7, so when it is released half-finished as well I might be satisfied with it for a month or two.
  • aethon3050aethon3050 Member Posts: 599 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    recksracer wrote: »
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~syberghost

    There are way more players divided among the small fleets than there are in mega fleets. If they drive away the small fleets, the game will die.

    500 man fleets are garbage, most of the people in a fleet that large never even talk to or associate with 90% of the fleet base.

    I've been playing mmos for about 10 years and I have never once seen a a fleet that large that doesn't have an egomaniac at the top, no recruitment standards and drama.

    No thanks

    Not all large groups are like this; I've been a member of mine for almost 2 years now, without experiencing the problems you describe. It all comes down to good management, and a good set of rules, with a laid-back attitude, IMHO. :cool:
  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    There are also several other things that could be long-term game fillers that do not require as much grinding and could actually be more fun if they were actually developed. Three come to mind:
    • Crafting
    • Exploration
    • PvP
    Each one of those should have been a deeper more rich system than they are and if done like that would have provided a great deal of enjoyment at end-game. Two of those are MMO staples and the third (exploration) was really a chance for Cryptic to introduce a new game feature to the MMO market.

    However, Cryptic's idea of end-game is becoming quite apparent, grind the same few missions 100's of times. Don't get me wrong, I like the Fleet Starbase System at it's core, the artwork, and the creativity of the 6 events...but we really need more events,Fleet marks tied into the Fleet Actions, better functionality, more decortional control, and something to spend our FCs on (yes most of the items in the shops could have been better if statted differently or were different in some way). Instead we get reskins with a jumble of stats rather than new procs, etc... Oh, we also get the privilege to pay Cryptic $20.00 bucks for a ship we sunk a ton of resources and time into getting.

    In essence I feel the Fleet Starbase System was released half-finished, as usual, and likely not to really be touched very much again in the next year. Cryptic is good at one thing...promising big and delivering short. I seriously do not have great expectations for Season 7, so when it is released half-finished as well I might be satisfied with it for a month or two.

    I agree, there is a MASSIVE ammounts of potential that Cryptic just isn't even showing signs of tapping. PvP with Territorial Control can work out for both PvEers, Casual PvPers, Open World PvPers, and Hardcore PvPers. Open Galaxy exploration, my mind literally boggles of how much possible content that alone could open up. I mean, I honestly think I could spent years creating content just for a tiny area of the Galaxy.

    Honestly, makes me wish I had the money to buy STO from PW and give it the proper destiny this game should have.
  • anikaifulanikaiful Member Posts: 138
    edited September 2012
    aethon3050 wrote: »
    Not all large groups are like this; I've been a member of mine for almost 2 years now, without experiencing the problems you describe. It all comes down to good management, and a good set of rules, with a laid-back attitude, IMHO. :cool:

    Agreed wholeheartedly :D
    Honestly, makes me wish I had the money to buy STO from PW and give it the proper destiny this game should have.
    You're not the only one in that boat.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    There are also several other things that could be long-term game fillers that do not require as much grinding and could actually be more fun if they were actually developed. Three come to mind:
    • Crafting
    • Exploration
    • PvP
    There's no way to build an Exploration System that doesn't require tons of writing and story content. Thus it's not really a time-sink endeavor. It's a Mission Content endeavor, IMO. Each Exploration would need to be different, otherwise we'd just have what we have now: only 5 or 6 choices which grow boring every quickly. That would require more story-choices then what the Fed PvE side currently has. :)

    I agree that Crafting could use another pass and, as I said above, we'd probably have seen a new PvP system in Season 7 if Gozer had not left the company. But, a new PvP system would have been a waste of resources on someone like me. I don't PvP in this game unless some Fleetmates are wanting to do some PvP just for the heck of it - and I guarantee I'm not alone in that thought. STO's never had a huge PvP community.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • cerritourugcerritourug Member Posts: 1,376 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    STO's never had a huge PvP community.

    PVP community is not huge because PVP here is BAAAAAD.. not just bad.. is TERRIBLE. So, dont blame PVP for the STO fail.

    And yes, I completely agree with commodoreshrvk, the fleet system is a half done job, and now a forgotten system, just like PVP, Foundry and Crafting. Since S6 there it was not a single big patch to fix the many problems the system has.

    This is the Cryptic history:
    1) they promises a lot
    2) they deliver half done system
    3) they move to the next promises and forget about the olds ones.
    4) they deliver another half done system
    __________________________________________________

    Division Hispana
    www.divisionhispana.com
  • standupguy86standupguy86 Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    recksracer wrote: »
    Nothing I wrote was "made up".

    Playing daily for a year is a very good way to determine what the population in the game is like.

    Im sure that many of the poeple in your fleet don't know most of the people in your fleet.
    it's just the nature of a large mmo guild.

    I and many others have no interest in a large garbage fleet like the ones you advocate.

    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek

    Youre continuing to assert your opinion as fact. Ive played daily for months at a time but that doesnt mean I can correctly assume the number of players on a multi instanced game. Nor can I correctly assume the number of members to a Fleet that I dont have access to.

    Garbage Fleets....You can generalize all you want. Most 'Garbage Fleets' dont last very long. But theres evidence of plenty of Large Fleets that have been in this game from the start. And theyre still going strong.

    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek
  • phyrexianherophyrexianhero Member Posts: 768 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    levi3 wrote: »
    Just the 1.7 million dilth alone to upgrade fully to T3 is crazy - let alone the doff requirements - and before someone says you can do assignments for dilth but lower xp - I day Dilth sink again

    Are fleet members now willing to contribute everything bu dilth given dilth high cost and scare avail = no advancement for most fleets

    T4 is going to be a dilth sink "HOLE" - get out the army of bulldozers

    Add to that that it's 150 assognments to T4 - and each assignemnt is what - 1000+ fleet marks - get out your super grinding hats on - fleet leaders will have to be like the Russians at Stalingrad - standing behind their members/soldiers ready to shoot them if they turn back from the grind.

    So is T3 the end of the line for most fleets????

    What annoys me is that the costs we were told during Season 6 testing on Tribble got substantially scaled up on Holodeck.

    Developer Heretic said on June 6 that the most expensive project would be the one-time upgrade to Tier V, costing 1,250,000 dilithium and that the active projects at that tier would cost around 30,000 dilithium.

    Skip ahead to Holodeck and you'll see that Tier III active projects cost 40,000-60,000 dilithium and upgrade costs are through the roof.

    I fully understand that things can and do get tweaked, but to be paying Tier 5 costs at Tier 3 seems unnecessarily harsh.

    Edit: I had not seen the actual Starbase Tier 3 upgrade costs yet. The OP appears to have combined all upgrade projects into his 1.7 million dilithium number.
    Playing since January 2010. STOwiki administrator. Accolade hunter.
    My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
    Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
    KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
  • onenonlydrockonenonlydrock Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    From a guy who's got a a lifetime fleet credits count of 2.5 million on his main... I will say that yes this starbase grind is getting ridiculous.

    After Tier 3 I'm just going to outright stop, only make enough fleet marks to buy doffs to sell on the exchange.

    I'm just so sick of the climbing costs of building everything. Especially DOffs! Each tier doubles the cost on everything for the same amount of xp, which is really frustrating. Wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't exponential. You try finding 60 security officers for under 100k while dreading the fact that the next tier will need 180 of those expensive TRIBBLE!

    Sad part is my fleetmates burned out lot sooner than I did. I'm a hell of a grinder. I put up with the multiple months grinding STF's just to get my Mk XII gear. I can say that I am resilient as hell when it comes to a grind.

    But I finally found a grind that kicked my TRIBBLE.

    So once I hit tier 3... that's it. I'm done. I can't do this all on my own.

    I thought of recruiting more, but it defeated the point of my small fleet. It isn't even mine... it belongs to a fellow PBEM sim mate. My fleet consists of people that we know, and we only refer people that we know into our fleet, hence the small size. It's made for a close knit and friendly group, but it also means that we cannot possibly get the resources to make a top tier starbase.

    I did all this atrocious grinding for their sake... so that when they play the game they have a kick TRIBBLE starbase, a premade infrastructure already ready for my fellow PBEM sim mates and for my IRL friends who want to be introduced into the game.

    It sucks though. It feels like there's yet another thing in this game that is out of my reach and it feels like I've failed to deliver for my friends.


    Alright, enough rant. In short.

    -Solo or small groups of a half dozen players have no hope in hell of reaching beyond tier III.
    -Even large fleets of 30+ members will be stressing their asses trying to get to Tier V.
    -It therefore stands to reason that the starbase grind was made waaaaayyyyy too big.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    All I can say is, if the Devs see 75% or more of fleets (of any size) stalling out at or before Tier 3 they might rethink the numbers.

    Unless of course fleets stalling out is acceptable, or even intentional.
    My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here
    Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    and if it wasn't for Gozer leaving Season 7 might have also brought a new PvP system.

    This is the crux of my argument. STO has abandoned PvP for grindfests to keep players entertained.
  • onenonlydrockonenonlydrock Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    That's my guess too.

    But why? Games are supposed to be escapism... not sadism.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    bluegeek wrote: »
    All I can say is, if the Devs see 75% or more of fleets (of any size) stalling out at or before Tier 3 they might rethink the numbers.

    Unless of course fleets stalling out is acceptable, or even intentional.

    Most likely I will be drinking another shot (from the Cryptic drinking game) when the devs comment on the situation with "working as intended".
  • commodoreshrvkcommodoreshrvk Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    There's no way to build an Exploration System that doesn't require tons of writing and story content. Thus it's not really a time-sink endeavor.

    Remember the "Genesis System" that they used to create the loads of missions for what we have in exploration now? All of those missions were created with that system. Why was it abandoned and the bugs not worked out of it? Just another half completed attempt at things.

    I agree there are only a handful of template missions, but they stopped at the following:
    • Ground - Planet - Scan something without MOBs
    • Ground - Planet - Scan something with NPC MOBs
    • Ground - Base - Scan something w/o MOBs
    • Ground - Base - Scan something with NPC MOBs
    • Space - Protect Distressed Vessel
    • Space - Scan 5 ships w/o combat
    • Space - Scan 5 ships with combat
    • Space - Destroy 5-6 Squadrons
    • Space - Anomaly Farm
    • Space - Aid the Planet

    That was the extent of the creativity and what could have been a very powerful content generator, again a half attempt. I bet if we got a focus thread going we could easily triple these templates to add diversity.
  • commodoreshrvkcommodoreshrvk Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    ...PvP with Territorial Control can work out for both PvEers, Casual PvPers, Open World PvPers, and Hardcore PvPers...

    I have played a game just like that, but it got its territorial control late in life. However it was really well done. I am also beta testing another game from the same company that is a PvP territorial control game. I have been part of 2-3hr PvP battles for just one base. I cannot tell you how much fun that is. They are focusing on PvP and nothing else and are doing a great job at it.

    If STO had something even remotely close to those and it was a fully fleshed out system, PvP numbers would skyrocket.
  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    bluegeek wrote: »
    All I can say is, if the Devs see 75% or more of fleets (of any size) stalling out at or before Tier 3 they might rethink the numbers.

    Unless of course fleets stalling out is acceptable, or even intentional.

    A part of me wants to believe that was the case, but seems like this is what they meant on "long-term projects". But I really don't see people doing this for years, there is absolutely no benefits to encourage players to work that hard for a long ammount of time, and people are already suffereng massive grinding burnout.

    Now if Fleet Marks were part of the average mission payment like "Expertise", then things would be easier for players and there would be no burnout. Also wouldn't hurt if they improved the Starbase system where unlocks were worth it and not costing large sums of Dilithum or $20 for a ship you can't reclaim.
  • theultimatextheultimatex Member Posts: 489 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    Heck, you can earn that in 1 month, assuming your 60,000 per day. :)

    You're going to make it to T3 by yourself! That's quite an accomplishment - a HUGE accomplishment, IMO. If you can make T3 just by yourself why is it so hard to grasp that a Fleet of 25+ people will make T4 or T5?

    By myself is what I am trying to do. I am spending an hour or more per day between my 16+ characters to get that dil. Right now I am just trying to complete Tier 1 and those limited time starbase decorations.
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