I'm just going to put in my idea for how to make a Borg faction.
The Borg do not attack everything they see, and they don't send every drone/ship after an enemy. So if people are controlling them and some of them are attacking but other people aren't it makes sense. In space you would control your Borg ship and get the choice of tractor probe (best tractor beam of all the ships), regeneration probe (can heal others and yourself better), regular probe (they'd have to give it some ability to balance with the others like maybe the best tachyon beam), sphere (more weapons), and in the C store you could get a cube for say 1000 zen. For 1000 zen you don't see cubes all over the place but they're not extremely rare. And maybe like 2500 zen you could get a tactical cube. And for more c store options you could have like a different kind of cube that's like a carrier and can launch spheres/probes. When your ship is destroyed you respawn by the borg transwarping in another ship. For equipment you can only have the borg set and plasma weapons, but they would have different types of Borg shields and you can buy plasma weapons with different modifiers. And all ships have the borg engines that let you go warp 20, and you can transwarp to any sector block. For abilities most come built into the type of ship you're using but you would get say three of your choice like boff powers.
On the ground, you control your drone. You would get to chose from tactical or medical drone. The tactical drone has lots of weapons including ranged ones but the medical drones can assimilate. The assimilate ability would have like a thirty second cooldown or something. If you're killed you respawn by another drone being beamed down. As for the tailor, you can change the appearence of your drone with different implants and eyepieces, and this could be explained simply as your just controlling a different drone that looks like that. You can change to a tactical or medical at any time for energy credits or whatever currency as well as the tailor.
As for starbases you would have unimatrixes. You can change your ship, appearence, or type of drone there and they would all be close by in the unimatrix since the drones can only walk.
You wouldn't have STFs, for an obvious reason. Cryptic wouldn't need to develop any missions becuase it could be all in pvp and warzones. They just put in like one Borg battle zone in every sector block (something like kerrat) and put the Borg faction in the pvp queues and that's it. Fairly simple.
I think this could actually be viable for making a Borg faction, as it wouldn't take much to develop and Cryptic would still make money from the sales of cubes and other uprgrades/items in the C store.
As a type of endgame "Monster Play", Borg would work quite nicely. Players could all be the equivalent of say Captain through VA. They wouldn't be "watered-down" or pushovers and the Borg could keep that scary feel.
It could even be a viable path for an open Territory Control system (Borg vs Everybody). Many of the planets in most of the sectors could be assimilated or liberated and any Borg found occupying a planetary system in a public instance could be fair game (and vice versa).
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While on the surface this would be neat, IMO there are a number of reasons why this would be unwise.
Not the least of which is that, to keep up the atmosphere, you'd have to act like a Borg. This means there is essentially NO storyline for you. You are told flat-out 'capture the Enterprise and assimilate the captain.' No explanation, and no mind to explain to - they're called drones for a reason. Cryptic already took a leap by making "individuals" (e.g. Donatra) that seem to have some sense of individuality even if they are no longer the person who we would think of them as. This would be even worse than the "too much fighting, not enough story" that is often lamented by certain subsets of this population - the Borg know only conquest, and as a drone you are a mindless, fully expendable tool that needs no (and probably can understand no) explanation.
At best, assuming the Romulans ever come out and there may be time for a fourth faction to be contemplated, a splinter Borg faction from Hugh's group might be viable from a story perspective - but then, they wouldn't really be the Borg, or at least, would probably not even be overly different from existing Liberated Borg players except they would have more species diversity.
As an additional note, the KDF hates being thought of as "monster play," so far as I can tell - and you don't get much more "monster play" than the Borg, the faction that EVERYONE wants to kill, and in turn wants to assimilate EVERYONE. I doubt that the experience would be very satisfying.
There is no need to hide anything in a collective. Each drone, each ship, each unimatrix serves one purpose. To assimilate new technology and cultures. When one ship is engaged in one sector, there is no reason to believe there is some unknowing cube out there that is unaware of a threat that is now posed against another borg ship. It makes no sense to keep anything from any drone. They dont think for themselves so theres no need to worry about opinions, or choices and betrayal.
You answered your own question. How does the Borg keep tabs on Voyager? Does the Queen have a magic 8 ball? No. Her Cubes routinely use sensor data to update the Hive on Voyagers activities. In this instance you have mentioned, Voyager wasnt the objective. But knowing how Janeway behaved and how StarFleet and the Federation was always too curious for their own good. It made sense to scan them and get an up to date intel on what Voyager was doing, what it was carrying and what level of threat it posed if any. It wouldnt be the first time a StarFleet crew had overcome the Borg.
There is also no need to deciminate all info and intentions to all units not involved or required to know. Its not about keeping secrets, its about efficiency.
The Borg vessles were perfectly capable of maintaining intel on the Voyager without closing to attack range. The Collective was keeping tabs on Voyager without Voyager's knowledge...remaining at long range and not being so obvious as to break course to intercept in order to scan. This Cube was out of the loop, made an assesment and decision within the situtation, that was different from the other Cubes in the formation and had to be told to break off. There was never a need to have a Cube close on Voyager to maintain tabs on her. That Cube could have done just as well in its scan in passing and well prior to being within attack a range.
Think about, why would Borg vessels have to be told to avoid Voyager if they all should have known not to avoid Voyager?...its redundant.
Why would the Borg vessels have to be told not to do something?...unless there was already the possibility that they'd do the opposite without instruction. If the units within the Collective were under direct and explicit command for all actions at all times by the Collective, then you'd have to just tell them what to do...never what not to do. A prohibition requires that the entity you desire to prohibit must have the means of doing the prohibitive action on its own.
Like a remote control car, do you ever have to tell the car not to turn left?
There is also no need to deciminate all info and intentions to all units not involved or required to know. Its not about keeping secrets, its about efficiency.
But there is no indication of any lack of access. Anything deemed relevant is sent immediately.
The Borg vessles were perfectly capable of maintaining intel on the Voyager without closing to attack range. The Collective was keeping tabs on Voyager without Voyager's knowledge...remaining at long range and not being so obvious as to break course to intercept in order to scan. This Cube was out of the loop, made an assesment and decision within the situtation, that was different from the other Cubes in the formation and had to be told to break off. There was never a need to have a Cube close on Voyager to maintain tabs on her. That Cube could have done just as well in its scan in passing and well prior to being within attack a range.
So now you are an expert on Borg sensor tech too? What if something had changed about Voyager since the last encounter with Borg cubes? What if it was really being crewed by Undine and they were trying some sort of ruse? The Undine are shapeshifters after all. What sensor range is needed to be sure?
Think about, why would Borg vessels have to be told to avoid Voyager if they all should have known not to avoid Voyager?...its redundant.
Why would the Borg vessels have to be told not to do something?...unless there was already the possibility that they'd do the opposite without instruction. If the units within the Collective were under direct and explicit command for all actions at all times by the Collective, then you'd have to just tell them what to do...never what not to do. A prohibition requires that the entity you desire to prohibit must have the means of doing the prohibitive action on its own.
Like a remote control car, do you ever have to tell the car not to turn left?
The Borg say many things for propaganda purposes. We never 'hear' the actual transmissions between Seven and the Queen in 'Scorpion.' We only hear what Seven tells the Voyager crew.
Above and beyond that, there are default orders pending new information. This is why the Borg often ignore anything that is not a blatant active threat. They give enemies the initiative, analyze, compensate, and overcome/assimilate. Canon examples of default orders are VERY mechanical. Advance slowly to save power/conserve maximum power for shielding, analyze, adapt.
Don't go out of your way to assimilate anything that doesn't represent something worth assimilating.
A battle in progress with an enemy like the Undine almost certainly got more attention/processing power than any given random deep space encounter.
In that context, yes, default orders did have to be altered to take into account that a something normally an assimilation target was to be left alone.
If the remote control car was set on autopilot to make a left turn every 3 miles, and the programmer realized that would send it off a cliff eventually, then yes, the course set in the autopilot would indeed have to be altered. But that doesn't mean the programmer/controller wouldn't still watch the car remotely or ignore warning lights while they were paying more attention to a different remote controlled object. It would just mean that the existing orders were adequate for the time being.
Auto-pilot...auto-nomous...auto-pilots have simple logic, they make choices autonomously to maintain a desired course, altitude, navigation plan. Bump the controls, have cross-wind, encounter turbulence and the auto-pilot corrects on it own based on the limited logic...but its without intervention from the pilot.
The Borg logic/processes, etc are certainly more complex than an auto-pilot, none-the-less, they are able to make determinations dynamically on how to handle a situtation...and it doesnt require the Collective to explicitly command the unit how to respond to the new situtation, it may, but its not required.
The Borg have directives, they can move to execute tasks within that directive as they deem fit based on the scenerio...such as in the case of the episode Regeneration...have you read the last bit of ACT3 and all of ACT4? This shows Borg autonmous behavior at its best.
As with the auto-pilot, you only have to issue orders to an autonomous entity if it does something undesirable...as in attacking a ship you dont them to attack...and why would it attack the ship if its undesirable?...because its not aware of the prohibition and is acting autonomously.
If the act of attacking ships was just a fixed "reflex", than likly all three cubes would have pulled off from their transit to the Undine encounter...instead, only one came to conclusion that it was worthwhile to engage Voyager before being called off.
Thats not the only way the Borg can be played...maybe thats the only way uou can see it, or want to see it. The only thing required is some thought, themed interfaces and missions and a perspective not tied down to that of a meat-bag.
Just because you close your eyes and cover your ears to it doesnt mean it cant be. Ive prrsented enough and can present more of why it is possible. A couple of years back I outlined the method on numerous occasions.
I'm not the one covering my eyes and ears, clearly you need to re-watch all of the series and material relating to the Borg before you could consider deifying them. The Collective would give the appearance of a functioning hive mind, but even in the early episodes it was readily apparent that no individual has freedom, with the introduction of the Queen it becomes obvious that even the Collective itself is without free will.
You never see a scene where a person being assimilated says, "Oh this is wonderful", they always react with abject horror at the prospect of being assimilated, until their free will is finally subverted.
This is not a large scale strategy game where you control and move armies, this is a game where you work as an individual, something impossible for the Borg.
The Borg do nothing as a single individual, so they are not viable for this game as a player faction.
Assimilated Borg individuals have no self direction, so they are not viable as a player character.
The Borg have no commerce, they steal what they want by assimilating the races that have the resources they require, so the exchange, markets etc., are all unusable.
Everyone is hostile with the Borg, the Borg having no concept of honor, compromise or diplomacy, they assimilate races of interest to them or attempt to destroy them if assimilation is impossible.
Borg players in this game would have nothing to do other than attacking other players, or attacking or assimilating whatever targets are of interest, a mindless PK faction that this game does not need.
The only function the Borg have in this game is as an enemy to kill.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
A game can never implement a true Borg "Hive Mind" so that whole argument is moot. What a game can do is implement Monster Play. Borg are Sci-Fi Zombies and that can be done:
PvP Borg Ground Invasion - Player controlled Drones kill other players or try to assimilate them on the ground. If you are assimilated your character is temporarily converted to Borg Monster Play.
PvP Borg Space Invasion - Player controlled Borg Spheres, Cubes or Probes. Other players try to defeat them or keep them from reaching certain goals.
This they can do. The "Hive Mind" and all its complexities are left to your imagination and role play.
On the subject of the two "individual" Borgs Locutus and Seven of Nine.
Locutus was a plan that the borg had used before, he had a semblance of individuality and was intended to intimidate and convince the Federation to surrender without a fight. It was stated that it was an old tactic the Borg had used many times, to use someone they had assimilated from a civilisation as a spokesperson to make assimilating the race as efficient, not only that but First Contact revealled that Locutus was simply a drone rather than an individual.
And Seven was the same thing, she was used as a spokesperson for the Borg so the Borg would have access to the individuality needed to finish the nanite weapon for use against the Undine, in fact the moment that the weapon was finished she reverted back to an ordinary drone and attempted to assimilate Voyager and its crew. The only thing that saved Voyager from being converted was the fact they expected this and had prepared for it without her knowledge.
Picard and Seven of Nine are both liberated borgs. Picard has suffered various nightmares due to his experiences with the Borg, but his assimilation seemed more like a rush job. After a couple of weeks, all his implants were removed in a couple of weeks by Beverly Crusher. Seven of Nine was a Borg since she was a child so the implants and scars were more indepth. It is surprising that she wasn't a complete mental case when she was liberated.
As far as them being individuals within the Borg, I can see Seven of Nine having some control since it seemed like she was being raised to be the next Queen. After all, why would the current Borg Queen be so inclined to get Seven of Nine back.
Picard and Seven of Nine are both liberated borgs. Picard has suffered various nightmares due to his experiences with the Borg, but his assimilation seemed more like a rush job. After a couple of weeks, all his implants were removed in a couple of weeks by Beverly Crusher. Seven of Nine was a Borg since she was a child so the implants and scars were more indepth. It is surprising that she wasn't a complete mental case when she was liberated.
As far as them being individuals within the Borg, I can see Seven of Nine having some control since it seemed like she was being raised to be the next Queen. After all, why would the current Borg Queen be so inclined to get Seven of Nine back.
Seven did have issues adapting to being away from the borg, her refusal to retake her birth name, her constant need to be with other outside her regenerative cycle, the ruthless efficency she expected when she was given a team to assist her. All of these were shown at various points in the series, although most of the major issues were assisted by her following Janeway's advice to think of the Voyager crew as her collective.
As for why the Borg Queen wanted Seven, Seven would have gained valuable knowledge of Voyager's defences and tactics, not to mention Seven's studies of the 27th century mobile emitter, re-assimilating Seven would have given this knowledge to the collective allowing them to assimilate Voyager and advance their own technology by 300 years.
If people had any respect for the borg this would never happen. Lets face, it, 75% of the people that would play the borg should (god forbid) it come out will get depressed because they wouldnt actually be as badass as the actual borg because they just basicly ***** all that the borg stand for in making said TRIBBLE faction.
The borg are awesome because they are one mind, a collossal enemy that you cant ever hope to defeat, lets not spit on what they are by even considering adding them as a playable faction. Unless like one of the Devs once pointed out, you want missions that involve "walk to point B and repair that, then return to your alcove" at wich point you stray from the path to explore, only to be brutally turn to scrap by your borg "mates" for malfunctioning.
Its like asking "oh hey, can medical science please give my right arm sentience?"
Needless to say, this idea is idiotic. Try putting it into terms of "cryptic can turn this faction into a money grab by doing this" and you might have a shot though. Borg cube in lockbox, 50 dollars for 1 key, chance for getting it = ? prob 1 in 10000. Cryptic, make it so.
If people had any respect for the borg this would never happen. Lets face, it, 75% of the people that would play the borg should (god forbid) it come out will get depressed because they wouldnt actually be as badass as the actual borg because they just basicly ***** all that the borg stand for in making said TRIBBLE faction.
The borg are awesome because they are one mind, a collossal enemy that you cant ever hope to defeat, lets not spit on what they are by even considering adding them as a playable faction.
If you had actually PLAYED this game you would know that Cryptic had ALREADY made the Borg so weak you can solo a cube, meaning they are NOTHING like what just described. The fact that you arent aware of that means you havent played this game, so you shouldnt be having a conversation about a game you havent even played.
Unless like one of the Devs once pointed out, you want missions that involve "walk to point B and repair that, then return to your alcove" at wich point you stray from the path to explore, only to be brutally turn to scrap by your borg "mates" for malfunctioning.
Yeah, and the whole assimilating entire species thing.
Its like asking "oh hey, can medical science please give my right arm sentience?"
Needless to say, this idea is idiotic.
A playable borg faction is no more "idiotic" than the fact that Fed and KDF players magically come back to life when their ship explodes. While we, the PLAYERS are aware of re-spawning, the make-believe characters we play are NOT. Likewise, while we, the PLAYERS, are aware of the difference between a real person playing a Borg and an NPC, the make-believe characters we play are NOT.
Within the GAME WORLD, our characters dont actually die. And within the GAME WORLD, a playable Borg faction would not have free will. What we, the PLAYERS are aware of has absolutely NOTHING to do with the STORY of the game. If you cannot comprehend the difference between what the player is aware of and the story of the game, that is a problem within your own mind, but it has nothing to do with this discussion.
If you had actually PLAYED this game you would know that Cryptic had ALREADY made the Borg so weak you can solo a cube, meaning they are NOTHING like what just described. The fact that you arent aware of that means you havent played this game, so you shouldnt be having a conversation about a game you havent even played.
Its not because Cryptic spits on the borg that the playerbase should just accept it. Please grow a spine, and dont talk to me like that again.
Its not because Cryptic spits on the borg that the playerbase should just accept it. Please grow a spine, and dont talk to me like that again.
Whether you "accept" it or not isnt going to change anything. No matter how much of a fit you throw about not wanting a Borg faction, at the end of the day the Borg in STO will still be weak and you will still be able to solo a cube. A playable Borg faction wont make them any weaker than the Devs have already made them.
If you had actually PLAYED this game you would know that Cryptic had ALREADY made the Borg so weak you can solo a cube, meaning they are NOTHING like what just described. The fact that you arent aware of that means you havent played this game, so you shouldnt be having a conversation about a game you havent even played.
They are so weak that you can solo a cube because other races advance faster. The Borg have not been successfully resisted before the Feds and Undine.
Even so, they still are the ones raiding the Alpha quadrant, and are still on the offense... even if they aren't as superior as they were when Q first introduced the Feds to them.
A playable borg faction is no more "idiotic" than the fact that Fed and KDF players magically come back to life when their ship explodes. While we, the PLAYERS are aware of re-spawning, the make-believe characters we play are NOT. Likewise, while we, the PLAYERS, are aware of the difference between a real person playing a Borg and an NPC, the make-believe characters we play are NOT.
You still can't figure out the difference between a game mechanic necessary to make a game playable, and a major change to an IP?
Within the GAME WORLD, our characters dont actually die. And within the GAME WORLD, a playable Borg faction would not have free will. What we, the PLAYERS are aware of has absolutely NOTHING to do with the STORY of the game. If you cannot comprehend the difference between what the player is aware of and the story of the game, that is a problem within your own mind, but it has nothing to do with this discussion.
Game mechanic. Get over it. In the IP, characters only die when they are scripted to do so. How is that really any different? Some of them *have* died many times over, but are still alive because of time loops.
What you are SAYING is that it PLOT and SETTING are IRRELEVANT because some GAME MECHANICS seem to BREACH THEM..... FOR YOU.
By the way, sorry for not using more caps earlier. I take it that arguments have less relevancy to you without them?
I'm not the one covering my eyes and ears, clearly you need to re-watch all of the series and material relating to the Borg before you could consider deifying them. The Collective would give the appearance of a functioning hive mind, but even in the early episodes it was readily apparent that no individual has freedom, with the introduction of the Queen it becomes obvious that even the Collective itself is without free will.
You never see a scene where a person being assimilated says, "Oh this is wonderful", they always react with abject horror at the prospect of being assimilated, until their free will is finally subverted.
This is not a large scale strategy game where you control and move armies, this is a game where you work as an individual, something impossible for the Borg.
The Borg do nothing as a single individual, so they are not viable for this game as a player faction.
Assimilated Borg individuals have no self direction, so they are not viable as a player character.
The Borg have no commerce, they steal what they want by assimilating the races that have the resources they require, so the exchange, markets etc., are all unusable.
Everyone is hostile with the Borg, the Borg having no concept of honor, compromise or diplomacy, they assimilate races of interest to them or attempt to destroy them if assimilation is impossible.
Borg players in this game would have nothing to do other than attacking other players, or attacking or assimilating whatever targets are of interest, a mindless PK faction that this game does not need.
The only function the Borg have in this game is as an enemy to kill.
You'd never play as an individual under my proposal, you'd play as the command & control unit of ship of the many. You'd be the ship, therefore you'd be it and the whole crew. There would be no drone avatar that represents you. You'd have no body, just the disembodied, autonomous logic operating within the ship's vinculum...you'd be operating as a localized fragment of the larger Collective consciousness.
You'd never play as an individual under my proposal, you'd play as the command & control unit of ship of the many. You'd be the ship, therefore you'd be it and the whole crew. There would be no drone avatar that represents you. You'd have no body, just the disembodied, autonomous logic operating within the ship's vinculum...you'd be operating as a localized fragment of the larger Collective consciousness.
One more time.. there is no evidence that any given Borg vessel is independent in any way. There is no 'You are the ship.'
Just because the ship is a discrete fragment doesn't mean it is an independent fragment.
It is only autonomous to the extent that it is operating under autopilot between incidents worthy of attention.
You'd never play as an individual under my proposal, you'd play as the command & control unit of ship of the many. You'd be the ship, therefore you'd be it and the whole crew. There would be no drone avatar that represents you. You'd have no body, just the disembodied, autonomous logic operating within the ship's vinculum...you'd be operating as a localized fragment of the larger Collective consciousness.
Explain to me how a vinculum would go on away missions for ground activities? Your bridge officers would be lugging around a box that gives them orders with you as the box? Ya that sounds like a real thrill. Yes I'll go to the taylor and change my uniform from a glowing mulch container to a sparkling beer keg, what style.
Sorry for the sarcasm but what you are proposing would not work in this game and you're still clinging to the erred perception that the collective has free will, there are no Borg individuals save one, that is the true horror of the Borg, an entire society of beings at the complete mercy of the twisted whims of a single consciousness embodied in the Queen with no recourse but absolute subservience until death finally frees them.
From what I've learned of the Borg, the Vinculum is a combination data server and networking hub, not a source of control, it has no consciousness and if it does generate any control, it is rudimentary and dictated elsewhere.
The game will not support players that remotely control activities without themselves being placed directly in harm's way, that would constitute an uber/god mode type character which thankfully does not exist, and hopefully will never be allowed, in this game.
The only way to play as a Borg in this game is as a liberated Borg as they are the only kind of Borg that have individuality and freedom of choice.
Wanting to play as the Borg is as absurd as wanting to play as Q, it would be a game breaker if either were seriously considered, the game having devolved from something related to Star Trek to the playground of Gods and Demons.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
There's another point nobody has really touched on yet. We already pretty much know that the majority of new content we get (assuming they actually start delivering on content) has to be faction agnostic.
Cryptic has already demonstrated they can barely do that with just Federation and KDF with the featured episodes and have it be seamless. I cannot imagine they could do that with a faction as radically different as the Borg would have to be. And that's assuming they could make a way for us to play the Borg AND have it make sense within the framework of canon, which again, I don't think Cryptic, or really anyone is capable of. At least not in an MMO setting.
The main problem with having a borg faction is to do it right and it would be mashing a space strategy game like Galactic Civilizations into Star Trek Online. It just does not work. In fact, the only way for that to work is a PvP sector map where one person controls the Borg and numerous people control the other side.
While it would be nice to have a Borg ship pet, there is no artistic freedom in the ships to attract people to the ships. Every ships is exactly the same. Part of the fun in the borg set is how it changes the look of other ships. Corrupting the TOS Enterprise with assimilation is fun.
The only thing that needs to be done for the borg as far as players are concerned is make the liberated borg human and klingon races to liberated borg alien and add Borg interiors. It does not make sense that the exterior has the assimilated look with the Borg set, but the interior does not.
Star Trek has historically presented the fear of the "unknown peoples" in order to eventually show how much alike we all are...no matter how alien they may have seemed...this includes the Borg.
The Borg abduct and remove free will from sentient beings who mostly do NOT want that. They don't even let you die, they use you up as a resource. Whether malicious or not the Borg are EVIL in a way beyond, the Falkirri, the Iconians, and even Janeway.
in canon whenever a single ship faces off against the Borg the Borg DIES
Actually you remain cloaked
move in close on the cube
and fire a single solid state collision torpedo as you go to warp
the laws of physics then destroy the Borg instantly
Pretty much, although you are really arming the Bird of Prey with a Plot Device, which in this case happens to fire a single solid state collision torpedo.
Comments
As a type of endgame "Monster Play", Borg would work quite nicely. Players could all be the equivalent of say Captain through VA. They wouldn't be "watered-down" or pushovers and the Borg could keep that scary feel.
It could even be a viable path for an open Territory Control system (Borg vs Everybody). Many of the planets in most of the sectors could be assimilated or liberated and any Borg found occupying a planetary system in a public instance could be fair game (and vice versa).
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Not the least of which is that, to keep up the atmosphere, you'd have to act like a Borg. This means there is essentially NO storyline for you. You are told flat-out 'capture the Enterprise and assimilate the captain.' No explanation, and no mind to explain to - they're called drones for a reason. Cryptic already took a leap by making "individuals" (e.g. Donatra) that seem to have some sense of individuality even if they are no longer the person who we would think of them as. This would be even worse than the "too much fighting, not enough story" that is often lamented by certain subsets of this population - the Borg know only conquest, and as a drone you are a mindless, fully expendable tool that needs no (and probably can understand no) explanation.
At best, assuming the Romulans ever come out and there may be time for a fourth faction to be contemplated, a splinter Borg faction from Hugh's group might be viable from a story perspective - but then, they wouldn't really be the Borg, or at least, would probably not even be overly different from existing Liberated Borg players except they would have more species diversity.
As an additional note, the KDF hates being thought of as "monster play," so far as I can tell - and you don't get much more "monster play" than the Borg, the faction that EVERYONE wants to kill, and in turn wants to assimilate EVERYONE. I doubt that the experience would be very satisfying.
There is also no need to deciminate all info and intentions to all units not involved or required to know. Its not about keeping secrets, its about efficiency.
The Borg vessles were perfectly capable of maintaining intel on the Voyager without closing to attack range. The Collective was keeping tabs on Voyager without Voyager's knowledge...remaining at long range and not being so obvious as to break course to intercept in order to scan. This Cube was out of the loop, made an assesment and decision within the situtation, that was different from the other Cubes in the formation and had to be told to break off. There was never a need to have a Cube close on Voyager to maintain tabs on her. That Cube could have done just as well in its scan in passing and well prior to being within attack a range.
Think about, why would Borg vessels have to be told to avoid Voyager if they all should have known not to avoid Voyager?...its redundant.
Why would the Borg vessels have to be told not to do something?...unless there was already the possibility that they'd do the opposite without instruction. If the units within the Collective were under direct and explicit command for all actions at all times by the Collective, then you'd have to just tell them what to do...never what not to do. A prohibition requires that the entity you desire to prohibit must have the means of doing the prohibitive action on its own.
Like a remote control car, do you ever have to tell the car not to turn left?
But there is no indication of any lack of access. Anything deemed relevant is sent immediately.
So now you are an expert on Borg sensor tech too? What if something had changed about Voyager since the last encounter with Borg cubes? What if it was really being crewed by Undine and they were trying some sort of ruse? The Undine are shapeshifters after all. What sensor range is needed to be sure?
The Borg say many things for propaganda purposes. We never 'hear' the actual transmissions between Seven and the Queen in 'Scorpion.' We only hear what Seven tells the Voyager crew.
Above and beyond that, there are default orders pending new information. This is why the Borg often ignore anything that is not a blatant active threat. They give enemies the initiative, analyze, compensate, and overcome/assimilate. Canon examples of default orders are VERY mechanical. Advance slowly to save power/conserve maximum power for shielding, analyze, adapt.
Don't go out of your way to assimilate anything that doesn't represent something worth assimilating.
A battle in progress with an enemy like the Undine almost certainly got more attention/processing power than any given random deep space encounter.
In that context, yes, default orders did have to be altered to take into account that a something normally an assimilation target was to be left alone.
If the remote control car was set on autopilot to make a left turn every 3 miles, and the programmer realized that would send it off a cliff eventually, then yes, the course set in the autopilot would indeed have to be altered. But that doesn't mean the programmer/controller wouldn't still watch the car remotely or ignore warning lights while they were paying more attention to a different remote controlled object. It would just mean that the existing orders were adequate for the time being.
The Borg logic/processes, etc are certainly more complex than an auto-pilot, none-the-less, they are able to make determinations dynamically on how to handle a situtation...and it doesnt require the Collective to explicitly command the unit how to respond to the new situtation, it may, but its not required.
The Borg have directives, they can move to execute tasks within that directive as they deem fit based on the scenerio...such as in the case of the episode Regeneration...have you read the last bit of ACT3 and all of ACT4? This shows Borg autonmous behavior at its best.
As with the auto-pilot, you only have to issue orders to an autonomous entity if it does something undesirable...as in attacking a ship you dont them to attack...and why would it attack the ship if its undesirable?...because its not aware of the prohibition and is acting autonomously.
If the act of attacking ships was just a fixed "reflex", than likly all three cubes would have pulled off from their transit to the Undine encounter...instead, only one came to conclusion that it was worthwhile to engage Voyager before being called off.
You never see a scene where a person being assimilated says, "Oh this is wonderful", they always react with abject horror at the prospect of being assimilated, until their free will is finally subverted.
This is not a large scale strategy game where you control and move armies, this is a game where you work as an individual, something impossible for the Borg.
The Borg do nothing as a single individual, so they are not viable for this game as a player faction.
Assimilated Borg individuals have no self direction, so they are not viable as a player character.
The Borg have no commerce, they steal what they want by assimilating the races that have the resources they require, so the exchange, markets etc., are all unusable.
Everyone is hostile with the Borg, the Borg having no concept of honor, compromise or diplomacy, they assimilate races of interest to them or attempt to destroy them if assimilation is impossible.
Borg players in this game would have nothing to do other than attacking other players, or attacking or assimilating whatever targets are of interest, a mindless PK faction that this game does not need.
The only function the Borg have in this game is as an enemy to kill.
This they can do. The "Hive Mind" and all its complexities are left to your imagination and role play.
Locutus was a plan that the borg had used before, he had a semblance of individuality and was intended to intimidate and convince the Federation to surrender without a fight. It was stated that it was an old tactic the Borg had used many times, to use someone they had assimilated from a civilisation as a spokesperson to make assimilating the race as efficient, not only that but First Contact revealled that Locutus was simply a drone rather than an individual.
And Seven was the same thing, she was used as a spokesperson for the Borg so the Borg would have access to the individuality needed to finish the nanite weapon for use against the Undine, in fact the moment that the weapon was finished she reverted back to an ordinary drone and attempted to assimilate Voyager and its crew. The only thing that saved Voyager from being converted was the fact they expected this and had prepared for it without her knowledge.
As far as them being individuals within the Borg, I can see Seven of Nine having some control since it seemed like she was being raised to be the next Queen. After all, why would the current Borg Queen be so inclined to get Seven of Nine back.
Seven did have issues adapting to being away from the borg, her refusal to retake her birth name, her constant need to be with other outside her regenerative cycle, the ruthless efficency she expected when she was given a team to assist her. All of these were shown at various points in the series, although most of the major issues were assisted by her following Janeway's advice to think of the Voyager crew as her collective.
As for why the Borg Queen wanted Seven, Seven would have gained valuable knowledge of Voyager's defences and tactics, not to mention Seven's studies of the 27th century mobile emitter, re-assimilating Seven would have given this knowledge to the collective allowing them to assimilate Voyager and advance their own technology by 300 years.
The borg are awesome because they are one mind, a collossal enemy that you cant ever hope to defeat, lets not spit on what they are by even considering adding them as a playable faction. Unless like one of the Devs once pointed out, you want missions that involve "walk to point B and repair that, then return to your alcove" at wich point you stray from the path to explore, only to be brutally turn to scrap by your borg "mates" for malfunctioning.
Its like asking "oh hey, can medical science please give my right arm sentience?"
Needless to say, this idea is idiotic. Try putting it into terms of "cryptic can turn this faction into a money grab by doing this" and you might have a shot though. Borg cube in lockbox, 50 dollars for 1 key, chance for getting it = ? prob 1 in 10000. Cryptic, make it so.
there is no successor to an immortal corpse
If you had actually PLAYED this game you would know that Cryptic had ALREADY made the Borg so weak you can solo a cube, meaning they are NOTHING like what just described. The fact that you arent aware of that means you havent played this game, so you shouldnt be having a conversation about a game you havent even played.
Yeah, and the whole assimilating entire species thing.
A playable borg faction is no more "idiotic" than the fact that Fed and KDF players magically come back to life when their ship explodes. While we, the PLAYERS are aware of re-spawning, the make-believe characters we play are NOT. Likewise, while we, the PLAYERS, are aware of the difference between a real person playing a Borg and an NPC, the make-believe characters we play are NOT.
Within the GAME WORLD, our characters dont actually die. And within the GAME WORLD, a playable Borg faction would not have free will. What we, the PLAYERS are aware of has absolutely NOTHING to do with the STORY of the game. If you cannot comprehend the difference between what the player is aware of and the story of the game, that is a problem within your own mind, but it has nothing to do with this discussion.
Its not because Cryptic spits on the borg that the playerbase should just accept it. Please grow a spine, and dont talk to me like that again.
Whether you "accept" it or not isnt going to change anything. No matter how much of a fit you throw about not wanting a Borg faction, at the end of the day the Borg in STO will still be weak and you will still be able to solo a cube. A playable Borg faction wont make them any weaker than the Devs have already made them.
They are so weak that you can solo a cube because other races advance faster. The Borg have not been successfully resisted before the Feds and Undine.
Even so, they still are the ones raiding the Alpha quadrant, and are still on the offense... even if they aren't as superior as they were when Q first introduced the Feds to them.
You still can't figure out the difference between a game mechanic necessary to make a game playable, and a major change to an IP?
Game mechanic. Get over it. In the IP, characters only die when they are scripted to do so. How is that really any different? Some of them *have* died many times over, but are still alive because of time loops.
What you are SAYING is that it PLOT and SETTING are IRRELEVANT because some GAME MECHANICS seem to BREACH THEM..... FOR YOU.
By the way, sorry for not using more caps earlier. I take it that arguments have less relevancy to you without them?
You'd never play as an individual under my proposal, you'd play as the command & control unit of ship of the many. You'd be the ship, therefore you'd be it and the whole crew. There would be no drone avatar that represents you. You'd have no body, just the disembodied, autonomous logic operating within the ship's vinculum...you'd be operating as a localized fragment of the larger Collective consciousness.
Fix KDF first, then focus on other factions. :P
One more time.. there is no evidence that any given Borg vessel is independent in any way. There is no 'You are the ship.'
Just because the ship is a discrete fragment doesn't mean it is an independent fragment.
It is only autonomous to the extent that it is operating under autopilot between incidents worthy of attention.
Sorry for the sarcasm but what you are proposing would not work in this game and you're still clinging to the erred perception that the collective has free will, there are no Borg individuals save one, that is the true horror of the Borg, an entire society of beings at the complete mercy of the twisted whims of a single consciousness embodied in the Queen with no recourse but absolute subservience until death finally frees them.
From what I've learned of the Borg, the Vinculum is a combination data server and networking hub, not a source of control, it has no consciousness and if it does generate any control, it is rudimentary and dictated elsewhere.
The game will not support players that remotely control activities without themselves being placed directly in harm's way, that would constitute an uber/god mode type character which thankfully does not exist, and hopefully will never be allowed, in this game.
The only way to play as a Borg in this game is as a liberated Borg as they are the only kind of Borg that have individuality and freedom of choice.
Wanting to play as the Borg is as absurd as wanting to play as Q, it would be a game breaker if either were seriously considered, the game having devolved from something related to Star Trek to the playground of Gods and Demons.
Cryptic has already demonstrated they can barely do that with just Federation and KDF with the featured episodes and have it be seamless. I cannot imagine they could do that with a faction as radically different as the Borg would have to be. And that's assuming they could make a way for us to play the Borg AND have it make sense within the framework of canon, which again, I don't think Cryptic, or really anyone is capable of. At least not in an MMO setting.
While it would be nice to have a Borg ship pet, there is no artistic freedom in the ships to attract people to the ships. Every ships is exactly the same. Part of the fun in the borg set is how it changes the look of other ships. Corrupting the TOS Enterprise with assimilation is fun.
The only thing that needs to be done for the borg as far as players are concerned is make the liberated borg human and klingon races to liberated borg alien and add Borg interiors. It does not make sense that the exterior has the assimilated look with the Borg set, but the interior does not.
I would! Lots of cleavage and a miniskirt! or better yet a borg armor bikini!
Playable Factions should be limited to the Federation, Klingon and Romulan species.
The Borg abduct and remove free will from sentient beings who mostly do NOT want that. They don't even let you die, they use you up as a resource. Whether malicious or not the Borg are EVIL in a way beyond, the Falkirri, the Iconians, and even Janeway.
The Bird of prey??
in canon whenever a single ship faces off against the Borg the Borg DIES
Actually you remain cloaked
move in close on the cube
and fire a single solid state collision torpedo as you go to warp
the laws of physics then destroy the Borg instantly
here borg cube spec
Affiliation:
Borg Collective
Dimensions
Length:
3,040 meters
Width:
3,040 meters
Height:
3,040 meters
Specifications
Decks:
1,700
Crew:
640,000 drones
Speed:
Warp 9.99
Transwarp
Armaments:
36 programmable weapons arrays
12 focused neutron beam
24 tractor beam emitters
Defences:
Multiple Regenerative shield emitters, Shield depletion pulse
Auxiliary craft:
1 Borg Sphere
here that some1 say bird of pray vs a cube
Bird of prey
Faction:
Klingon Empire
Fleet Affiliation:
Klingon
Design Specifications
Type:
warship
Length Overall:
B'rel 100 meters, K'vort 260 meters
Decks:
approx. 5 (varies)
Designed Capacities
Crew Compliment:
12 to 35+ (varies)
Tactical Systems
Armament:
Photon torpedo launchers (fore and aft); 2 disruptor cannons; phasers
Defenses:
Cloaking device, Deflector shields
Engineering Specifications
Warp Engines:
warpcore
Cruising Speed:
warp 7
Maximum Speed:
warp 9.6
so you see in tech term bird of pray is no match vs 1 cube
but stil funny how voyager easly kill a few cubes
in the serie
it's not funny... it's a simple case of "sucks to be the bad guy"
Pretty much, although you are really arming the Bird of Prey with a Plot Device, which in this case happens to fire a single solid state collision torpedo.