Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and if you would not be interested in playing a Borg faction, that is completely fine. However, this has been an ongoing discussion since launch, so there are obviously other people that are.
My main character is a liberated borg so I am interested in playing a borg faction. Of course, a borg faction can be very different things since there is no requirement that a borg faction has to be a Borg Collective faction. There is the Borg Cooperative and Hugh's group. A Borg Faction would have to introduce the culture of the Borg, its history and other reasons why someone should bother with being a Borg. Done right and it could be a very interesting faction to play. However, I am not interested in playing a faction that looks like it was put together in a couple of weeks.
It would be too easy to make a lousy faction like what was suggested. Take the current models for Borg ships and Borg ground troops, reuse some maps to get missions, some easy exploration and pvp missions, and modify some STF maps to create a Borg social area and you have a Borg Faction that can be done in a couple of weeks. If I get a faction that looks that bad, then I am taking Genesis Devices and firing them at every planet where the faction lives on. We should never suffer a poorly made faction like the KDF at launch again.
Thats it, no liberated, Fed-washed, watered down, house Borg. Im talking about the full blown Collective.
For you old vets of the forum, no need to wonder, yeah its me again!
No, Im not trying to be a drone, that's the wrong idea...playing/identifying as an individual is so meat-bag oriented. I want to be a ship's Vinculum (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Vinculum), the localized central control unit for a ship of drones.
As the Vinculum(we dont need no stinkin' Captain), I the player would be the local control center for operating the ship and it's drones in accordance with the interest of the Collective: Explore and seek out technology and lifeforms(including the Undine) in which to Assimilate, to obtain specimens of the Omega molecule, to observe, and if relevant, engage Humanoid activity in the Alpha, Beta and Delta Quadrants.
Really, there isnt really anything in game i could do that wasnt in the interest of the Collective.
As the Vinculum, I would operate small groups of 5 Borg Drones for ground away missions. Their somewhat "disposable" nature would be supplemented through tactical transporter beam downs of replacements from the ship's compliment for any fallen drones(up to the minimum ship complement for the operation of the Borg vessel). Drones can be out-fitted with spealized enhancments and modifications to fill an assortment of roles and needs as deemed necessary by the Vinculum to engage or perform the duties during the away mission in line with the interest of the Collective; ie: Engage, assimilate, acquire.
Regarding ships, the Vinculum can be equipped in an assortmen of Borg ship classes, ranging from a 5 crew Scout Cube, to a 300m in length Borg Probe vessel, all the way to a Borg Sphere...access to the Cube can be left to discussion and assesment by the devs.
In place of bridge officers, Borg ships would have sub-processors which would be specialized/tasked to deal with specific operations such as tactical, science, and ship/drone crew maintenance.
Borg adaption? Really, all that real is is a buff...how is that any different from the various buffs to shields, weapons and hull already in game...just re-name them, paint em up and push out with Borg themes...there arealready(and can be more) Borg specific specials in game.
Free-will, what is free-will. Does your away team in game have free-will when you tell them where to go, who to attack, what special to use? Plus, contrary to popular belief, the Borg does allow for autonomus behavior in the execution of the Collective's interests...its just that the Collective can over-ride a determination and action made a ship or group of Drones. No, they'll never be able to decide what hairstyle to use that day, but they can decide if something is worth assimilating...or even the best means of assimilating. Heck, the group of drones that were thawed out of the ice on Earth [ENT: EP: Regeneration]were totally disconnect from the Collective, but operated very well in their efforts to eascape, acquiring a ship, resources and modifications to get a message to the Collective(which required the construction of a comms array or something...if they were connected to the Collective, they wouldnt have needed to build anything to get the message off). While disconnected from the Collective, they used TACTICS, sabotage, deception(rope-a-dope) and ambushes, etc in order to achieve their goal...with no connection to the Collective, just autonomous and independent strategizing within the small group's hive mind.
The transport drops out of warp. Ensign Sato reports an incoming transmission; it is an activation sequence. On Archer's order, she tries to stop it, but cannot. The Borg-modified circuits suddenly become active. Main power and other systems, including weapons, begin to fail. Archer angrily realizes the truth: the drones sabotaged the circuits, modifying the appropriate systems so that this signal would cause them to fail.
What is important to see here is that the Collective isnt much different in the end as the rest of you meat-bags, the Borg are just better in-tune with the whole.
Remember, this isnt playing a Borg...its playing as an autonomous(yet inter-connected) control unit within the Collective...not much different than your Captain who is less intimatly connected to StarFleet or Klingon High Command through sub-space communications...I mean, who would want to play as a Drone?...Thats like you playing as a bridge officer or worst, some red shirt on the away mission.
But such splinter-factions are much, much less important that any other Star Trek faction one could come up with.
So if the devs suddenly get the urge to introduce a dozen or so additional mini-factions, this could be added along with Romulans, Cardassians, the Dominion, the Breen, the Tholians, the Mirror Universe... then yeah, add Hugh's Borg. Until then, the best for we can hope as a third faction are the Romulans. They are way more important.
I think if you made Hugh's Borg more Borg-y, they'd probably make some sense as a fifth faction or so.
The Breen and Tholians would have no real diversity of appearance and little compelling story.
I agree with Romulans first.
I'm iffy on the idea of a Cardassian faction largely because they're on the fence about joining the Federation. That's a chance for STO to be DIFFERENT from the shows in a way that showcases progress. STO needs more of that. It also risks being a single species faction, which I'm dead opposed to.
Now... If you want Bad Guy Cardassians, I'd be much more in favor of some kind of True Way expansion, particularly if you have the rogue Cardassians start creating Vorta and Jem'Hadar, maybe some augment variants of existing species, etc. That fills the Cardassian void while opening up something new. And I think some kind of Cardassian/Dominion combo is the best bet, likely pulling back in the Breen and Son'a.
After that, I'd prefer any factions introduced to be fairly new... and that's where a Liberated Borg faction is kinda compelling, as a new force to be reckoned with. A new faction. A new culture. Rooted in Trek but branching out in new ways.
My main character is a liberated borg so I am interested in playing a borg faction. Of course, a borg faction can be very different things since there is no requirement that a borg faction has to be a Borg Collective faction. There is the Borg Cooperative and Hugh's group.
While that is true, it is unlikely that the majority of people requesting a "Borg faction" really mean a "faction of people that used to be Borg". So as I said earlier, you are completely entitled to your opinion, and if a Borg(collective) faction is not something you would be interested in, that is completely fine. But do not confuse your personal interest with other people's.
But do not confuse your personal interest with other people's.
Isn't that what everyone does on a forum? We state our personal interests and then wait to see how many agree, or disagree, with them.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
No, you are talking about a discussion. What I am referring it is assuming that just because we think something that most other people do as well.
But aren't you doing exactly the same thing? Saying that 'there are enough people desiring this to implement it' is just as big an assumption as 'there are not enough people desiring this to implement it.'
Why is your assumption beyond question or dissenting opinions?
But aren't you doing exactly the same thing? Saying that 'there are enough people desiring this to implement it' is just as big an assumption as 'there are not enough people desiring this to implement it.'
Why is your assumption beyond question or dissenting opinions?
I did not make any statement regarding the number of people required to make something happen, I am simply discussing the subject of how the faction itself would work.
I did not make any statement regarding the number of people required to make something happen, I am simply discussing the subject of how the faction itself would work.
But isn't how well received the faction would be part of how well it would work? I don't see how those concepts can be separated.
If you are willing to ignore how well it would be received, you end up with a very low bar on what would work. Anything would work. You'd even be ruling out how well you personally would like the faction.
But isn't how well received the faction would be part of how well it would work?
When I used the term "work", I was referring to game mechanics. So to answer your question, no, popularity is a different subject than how something would mechanically function.
The key difference between a faction of "Hugh-like ex-Borg who move around the existing STO zones and partake of a mixture of existing STO cross-faction content and their own factional content, using existing mechanisms of play" and a faction of "Borg-like Borg who move around in Borg zones, doing Borg things in a Borg manner, only interacting with existing content when it's time to assimilate somebody" is, the former is a new faction in STO; the latter is a new game on a similar engine.
I don't think most people who don't want a Borg main would benefit from having enough people removed from providing them with content to make another game. Even if KDF and Federation were a parity, it'd be a problem with a small dev team.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
The key difference between a faction of "Hugh-like ex-Borg who move around the existing STO zones and partake of a mixture of existing STO cross-faction content and their own factional content, using existing mechanisms of play" and a faction of "Borg-like Borg who move around in Borg zones, doing Borg things in a Borg manner, only interacting with existing content when it's time to assimilate somebody" is, the former is a new faction in STO; the latter is a new game on a similar engine.
I don't think most people who don't want a Borg main would benefit from having enough people removed from providing them with content to make another game. Even if KDF and Federation were a parity, it'd be a problem with a small dev team.
Did you miss all of those Borg cubes flying around in every space sector? Per the game's story, the Borg are invading Fed/KDF/Rom/Card/Defari space. Therefore any Borg faction would likely be focused on that story.
And as previously stated, a Borg faction would likely consist of star cluster type PvE where you are assimilating instead of killing, and a monster play type PvP system. I have not seen anyone suggesting anything on the development scale of featured episodes.
When I used the term "work", I was referring to game mechanics. So to answer your question, no, popularity is a different subject than how something would mechanically function.
Mechanics are just coding. A faction that consists of playing inert Borg cubes spinning in space would 'work' mechanically, and would be a Borg faction.
Borg in tutus breaking into dancing whenever an enemy got near would work mechanically.
Mechanics are just coding. A faction that consists of playing inert Borg cubes spinning in space would 'work' mechanically, and would be a Borg faction.
No one said anything about "inert Borg cubes spinning in space". A Borg faction would likely consist of star cluster type PvE where you are assimilating instead of killing, and a monster play type PvP system. I could also easily envision a "reverse" of the current fleet starbase defense missions, where the Borg faction is actually attacking Fed/KDF bases.
No one said anything about "inert Borg cubes spinning in space". A Borg faction would likely consist of star cluster type PvE where you are assimilating instead of killing, and a monster play type PvP system. I could also easily envision a "reverse" of the current fleet starbase defense missions, where the Borg faction is actually attacking Fed/KDF bases.
I was pointing out 'factions' that would work 'mechanically.' If inert Borg cubes spinning in space wouldn't work as a faction for you, then we are talking about a faction that is acceptable and marketable, not just mechanically functional.
I was pointing out 'factions' that would work 'mechanically.' If inert Borg cubes spinning in space wouldn't work as a faction for you, then we are talking about a faction that is acceptable and marketable, not just mechanically functional.
I am discussing what I believe to be the most likely scenario, if a Borg faction were ever added. If that ever happens, they will most certainly have actual missions, not simply sit in space spinning as you suggest.
I am discussing what I believe to be the most likely scenario, if a Borg faction were ever added. If that ever happens, they will most certainly have actual missions, not simply sit in space spinning as you suggest.
We will have to wait and see what they do with Romulans first, before we can really speculate as to what they will do with Borg. If they take the Micro-Faction approach to Roms then the odds are not good that there will be Missions for them - and that would probably follow suit for a Borg Micro-Faction as well.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
On the contrary, we can speculate all we want. How accurate that speculation proves to be is a different issue.
Nagas, is that you?
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I am discussing what I believe to be the most likely scenario, if a Borg faction were ever added. If that ever happens, they will most certainly have actual missions, not simply sit in space spinning as you suggest.
But you seem to reject criticism as to what you consider the most likely scenario. It is what you think would work, but you don't seem to be willing to accept that it is subjective.
You dismiss suggestions that it would not be sufficiently popular on the theory that is an irrelevant criteria, yet obviously have your own standards in that regard.
But you seem to reject criticism as to what you consider the most likely scenario. It is what you think would work, but you don't seem to be willing to accept that it is subjective.
You dismiss suggestions that it would not be sufficiently popular on the theory that is an irrelevant criteria, yet obviously have your own standards in that regard.
I am not rejecting anything, I am simply making a counter argument. Even if I disagree with something, it does not mean I reject it.
We will have to wait and see what they do with Romulans first, before we can really speculate as to what they will do with Borg. If they take the Micro-Faction approach to Roms then the odds are not good that there will be Missions for them - and that would probably follow suit for a Borg Micro-Faction as well.
I think it's early to assume that Romulans will be the third faction, regardless of what devs have said they've discussed. Plans change, and the last time anybody did any serious market research on this, more people wanted Borg than Romulans. Of course, if the devs continue to have more ideas how to make Romulans playable and fun with tech they can reasonably produce, that decision is likely to happen; it doesn't matter how many people want it if Cryptic can't make it fun with reasonable development commitment.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
Q15: If you could play as any of the following opposing factions, which ONE would you choose?
29% - The Bord
27% - Klingon Empire
17% - Federation (Starfleet)
11% - Romulan Star Empire
07% - Cardassian Union
04% - Maquis
04% - Ferengi Alliance
01% - Other
I interpret "play as" to mean "play as", not play against. But you edited your post after I started pulling up this quote.
I did not make any statement regarding the number of people required to make something happen, I am simply discussing the subject of how the faction itself would work.
When I used the term "work", I was referring to game mechanics. So to answer your question, no, popularity is a different subject than how something would mechanically function.
I am discussing what I believe to be the most likely scenario, if a Borg faction were ever added. If that ever happens, they will most certainly have actual missions, not simply sit in space spinning as you suggest.
The spinning cube has mechanics that work. When you start getting into missions and details of what they would entail, then you are getting into subjective opinions as to what would be popular enough to implement.
And you would not have made the first statement I just quoted if you were accepting other's opinions on the popularity (or lack there of) of any given suggestion you make.
I think it's early to assume that Romulans will be the third faction, regardless of what devs have said they've discussed. Plans change, and the last time anybody did any serious market research on this, more people wanted Borg than Romulans.
That poll is 7 years old. Plan and desires certainly do change in that time. But even on this forum, if Cryptic were to just poll the players of its game like they used to, I seriously doubt Borg would come even close to Romulans as the 3rd Faction choice.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Comments
My main character is a liberated borg so I am interested in playing a borg faction. Of course, a borg faction can be very different things since there is no requirement that a borg faction has to be a Borg Collective faction. There is the Borg Cooperative and Hugh's group. A Borg Faction would have to introduce the culture of the Borg, its history and other reasons why someone should bother with being a Borg. Done right and it could be a very interesting faction to play. However, I am not interested in playing a faction that looks like it was put together in a couple of weeks.
It would be too easy to make a lousy faction like what was suggested. Take the current models for Borg ships and Borg ground troops, reuse some maps to get missions, some easy exploration and pvp missions, and modify some STF maps to create a Borg social area and you have a Borg Faction that can be done in a couple of weeks. If I get a faction that looks that bad, then I am taking Genesis Devices and firing them at every planet where the faction lives on. We should never suffer a poorly made faction like the KDF at launch again.
So your looking for a SWGNGE class LOL!
I think if you made Hugh's Borg more Borg-y, they'd probably make some sense as a fifth faction or so.
The Breen and Tholians would have no real diversity of appearance and little compelling story.
I agree with Romulans first.
I'm iffy on the idea of a Cardassian faction largely because they're on the fence about joining the Federation. That's a chance for STO to be DIFFERENT from the shows in a way that showcases progress. STO needs more of that. It also risks being a single species faction, which I'm dead opposed to.
Now... If you want Bad Guy Cardassians, I'd be much more in favor of some kind of True Way expansion, particularly if you have the rogue Cardassians start creating Vorta and Jem'Hadar, maybe some augment variants of existing species, etc. That fills the Cardassian void while opening up something new. And I think some kind of Cardassian/Dominion combo is the best bet, likely pulling back in the Breen and Son'a.
After that, I'd prefer any factions introduced to be fairly new... and that's where a Liberated Borg faction is kinda compelling, as a new force to be reckoned with. A new faction. A new culture. Rooted in Trek but branching out in new ways.
While that is true, it is unlikely that the majority of people requesting a "Borg faction" really mean a "faction of people that used to be Borg". So as I said earlier, you are completely entitled to your opinion, and if a Borg(collective) faction is not something you would be interested in, that is completely fine. But do not confuse your personal interest with other people's.
No, you are talking about a discussion. What I am referring to is automatically assuming that most people agree with what we think.
But aren't you doing exactly the same thing? Saying that 'there are enough people desiring this to implement it' is just as big an assumption as 'there are not enough people desiring this to implement it.'
Why is your assumption beyond question or dissenting opinions?
I did not make any statement regarding the number of people required to make something happen, I am simply discussing the subject of how the faction itself would work.
I said fact so that makes it true and indisputable
But isn't how well received the faction would be part of how well it would work? I don't see how those concepts can be separated.
If you are willing to ignore how well it would be received, you end up with a very low bar on what would work. Anything would work. You'd even be ruling out how well you personally would like the faction.
When I used the term "work", I was referring to game mechanics. So to answer your question, no, popularity is a different subject than how something would mechanically function.
I don't think most people who don't want a Borg main would benefit from having enough people removed from providing them with content to make another game. Even if KDF and Federation were a parity, it'd be a problem with a small dev team.
Did you miss all of those Borg cubes flying around in every space sector? Per the game's story, the Borg are invading Fed/KDF/Rom/Card/Defari space. Therefore any Borg faction would likely be focused on that story.
And as previously stated, a Borg faction would likely consist of star cluster type PvE where you are assimilating instead of killing, and a monster play type PvP system. I have not seen anyone suggesting anything on the development scale of featured episodes.
Mechanics are just coding. A faction that consists of playing inert Borg cubes spinning in space would 'work' mechanically, and would be a Borg faction.
Borg in tutus breaking into dancing whenever an enemy got near would work mechanically.
Again, you are setting a very low bar.
I'd love it if they added that
No one said anything about "inert Borg cubes spinning in space". A Borg faction would likely consist of star cluster type PvE where you are assimilating instead of killing, and a monster play type PvP system. I could also easily envision a "reverse" of the current fleet starbase defense missions, where the Borg faction is actually attacking Fed/KDF bases.
I was pointing out 'factions' that would work 'mechanically.' If inert Borg cubes spinning in space wouldn't work as a faction for you, then we are talking about a faction that is acceptable and marketable, not just mechanically functional.
I am discussing what I believe to be the most likely scenario, if a Borg faction were ever added. If that ever happens, they will most certainly have actual missions, not simply sit in space spinning as you suggest.
On the contrary, we can speculate all we want.
But you seem to reject criticism as to what you consider the most likely scenario. It is what you think would work, but you don't seem to be willing to accept that it is subjective.
You dismiss suggestions that it would not be sufficiently popular on the theory that is an irrelevant criteria, yet obviously have your own standards in that regard.
I'm sorry, but I am not sure what you mean by that.
I am not rejecting anything, I am simply making a counter argument. Even if I disagree with something, it does not mean I reject it.
I think it's early to assume that Romulans will be the third faction, regardless of what devs have said they've discussed. Plans change, and the last time anybody did any serious market research on this, more people wanted Borg than Romulans. Of course, if the devs continue to have more ideas how to make Romulans playable and fun with tech they can reasonably produce, that decision is likely to happen; it doesn't matter how many people want it if Cryptic can't make it fun with reasonable development commitment.
This is probably the survey you are referring to:
http://gaming.trekcore.com/startrekonline/dd8.html
I interpret "play as" to mean "play as", not play against. But you edited your post after I started pulling up this quote.
Edit: typo isn't mine, it comes from here:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/1434541#1434541
and this
seem to contradict this
The spinning cube has mechanics that work. When you start getting into missions and details of what they would entail, then you are getting into subjective opinions as to what would be popular enough to implement.
And you would not have made the first statement I just quoted if you were accepting other's opinions on the popularity (or lack there of) of any given suggestion you make.