Zen is more expensive than C points in the UK

bumbleduck · July 2012

It used to be 4.00 GBP to buy 500 CP.

Now it is 4.50 GBP to buy 500 Zen.

4.00 GBP at the old rate would have bought 625 Zen.

Price has gone up nearly 35%.

What the hell.

bumbleduck · July 2012

I think I have found the problem.

I have checked Steam wallet and the Zen billing page.

Zen billing page lists the price in Euros, but Steam Wallet lists the price in GBP.

However Steam wallet lists the same figure as the Zen billing page, completely not taking into account 1 GBP does not equal 1 Euro.

Please fix this.

mikewendell · July 2012

Actually the two different currencies have different ratios. It works out to 100 cpoints = 80 zen.

That may be what you;re seeing.

ryanev · July 2012

mikewendell wrote: »

Actually the two different currencies have different ratios. It works out to 100 cpoints = 80 zen.

That may be what you;re seeing.

I don't think that's the essence of his problem:

500 CP for 4 GBP -> 625 zen for 4 GBP

If he bought 500 Zen with 4.50 GBP, then there's something wrong there (aka Less Zen for More money, while it should be more zen for the same amount).

mechorian · July 2012

CP used to be 2000 for 16 pounds

a VA ship was 2000cp

A VA ship is now 2500zen

2500 zen is 21.50 pounds

I call a HUGE problem here!!!!!!

...:::EDIT:::...

ok it wont let me put the pound sign for the UK currency.... it changes it to a ?

rybaksix · July 2012

I noticed the same thing. Total rip off.

nynik · July 2012

*Nevermind

longasc · July 2012

Buy ZEN directly and avoid Steam Wallet. Steam always does EUR=GBP=USD stuff that is just awful.

eiledon · July 2012

I posted this during the big debacle threads around the time conversion to zen was announced.

THE PRICES ARE THE SAME - $25 still gets you $25 dollars worth of items. I give up. Folks can't do simple math deserve to give themselves an aneurysm from their misplaced rage.

e.g
Armitage costs $25 USD
= 2000 Cpoints (old cryptic price)
= 2500 zen (expected pwe price)
= $25 USD

Not a difficult concept.

As far as the cost to overseas players purchasing zen, I posted this elsewhere and I am happy enough (and have been although I was initially annoyed at having to pay in euro rather than USD as i did when i first started over 3 years ago)

The last time i bought zen at the beginning of June I got the 5000 zen bundle (which gave me 300 extra zen and so for STO would give me 4240 c points for my cash)

45 Euros = 5000 + 300 zen
45 Euros = GBP 36.35 (0.8777 x EURO)
45 Euros = $56.77 (1.26156 x EURO) - this does not equal $50 obviously.

Now converting sterling direct to dollars gets a similar result:

GBP 36.35 = $56.97 (1.56726 x GBP) - A difference here of 20 cents I can live with.

A direct conversion of USD price to sterling gives the following:

$50 = GBP 31.91 (0.638172 x USD)

An overall difference of GBP 4.44 from the actual charged price.

GBP 4.44 is approximately 14% of GBP 31.91

EU law only requires that the standard VAT rate must be at least 15% and the reduced rate at least 5% so my roundings may have given me the 14% rather than 15%.

This vat or purchase tax was formerly absorbed by PWE for many years, however they were pulled up for it i believe when they wanted to open their European servers and for european customers had to pass on the VAT charge. I don't believe US customers have this extra tax.

As I showed in my earlier post we seem to be paying between 14 and 15% TAX by paying in EURO against purchasing with USD directly. This is pretty much in line with EU legislation that minimum VAT for member states is 15%. The fluctuation is probably due to the fact that the USD to EUR conversion done by PWE in setting the 45 EUR price for 5000 zen is static while the actual EUR to GBP rate fluctuates (and has dropped 10% in the last year according to European Central Bank (ECB) (Source: http://www.ecb.int/stats/exchange/eurofxref/html/eurofxref-graph-gbp.en.html)

If we consider that the 45 EUR price is 39.13 EUR PLUS 5.87 EUR (15% VAT) then this gives the exchange rate used at the time as 50/39.13 = approximately 1.28 USD : 1 EUR

Bear in mind that the current actual conversion rate for USD : EUR is 1.25 USD : 1 EUR (and has dropped almost 13% over the past year as the EUR weakens against the dollar) (Source: http://www.ecb.int/stats/exchange/eurofxref/html/eurofxref-graph-usd.en.html)

so if PWE were to recalculate the EUR price even annually then the current price should be 50/1.25 = 40 EUR plus 40 @ 15% VAT = 6 EUR so the cost now would be 46 EUR for 5000 zen. not a big change. BUT.

If they had done this the same time last year however, the rate was 1.44 USD : 1 EUR so 50/1.44 = 34.72 EUR plus 34.72 @ 15 % = 5.21 EUR so the cost for the last year should have been 39.93 EUR, call it 40 EUR for simplicity sake, a saving for european customers of 5 EUR per purchase.

Should PWE review the EUR cost at least annually? Damn right they should (I would prefer quarterly but annually is at least a start). Will they? I doubt it but perhaps PWEBranflakes can highlight this concern to the accounts department as while PWE made extra money last year from it's EU customers than it rightly should have, if the EUR continues to weaken against the dollar the company will start losing money to it's EU customers..

.. damn maybe we shouldnt do anything or euro zone folks and brits will be worse off?[/COLOR]

bumbleduck · July 2012

That maybe the case eiledon

But my post is about the difference between the prices listed when you buy Zen through Steam Wallet, and when you buy Zen through Zen billing page. At first I thought it was a general price increase but now I think that it is simply a mistake.

Zen billing page: 4.50 EURO to buy 500 Zen

Steam Wallet: 4.50 GBP to buy 500 Zen

Please adjust Steam Wallet pricing.

eiledon · July 2012

that is an issue you need to take up with Steam. PWE simply advise them the price i believe. Your transaction is with Steam.

If you purchase directly from PWE using paypal for example as i said above you pay somewhere just over 30 GBP which at current exchange rates is about right.

for the purposes of purchasing Zen PWE treat the EEC as one zone and so all purchases are in Euro. But i believe Steam treats UK(GBP) as seperate from EMU (EURO) countries, which depending on your point of view both at technically correct. UK is part of the EEC (European Economic Community) but not part of the EMU (European Monetary Union).

What seems to be happening here is that possible PWE has advised steam that zen from europe costs 45 EUR per 5000 and because steam treat uk and other european countries differently they have inadvertently applied it as 45 GBP on UK purchases as opposed to the GBP equivalent of 45 EUR.

ajay80 · July 2012

eiledon wrote: »

I posted this during the big debacle threads around the time conversion to zen was announced.

THE PRICES ARE THE SAME - $25 still gets you $25 dollars worth of items. I give up. Folks can't do simple math deserve to give themselves an aneurysm from their misplaced rage.

e.g
Armitage costs $25 USD
= 2000 Cpoints (old cryptic price)
= 2500 zen (expected pwe price)
= $25 USD

Not a difficult concept.

As far as the cost to overseas players purchasing zen, I posted this elsewhere and I am happy enough (and have been although I was initially annoyed at having to pay in euro rather than USD as i did when i first started over 3 years ago)

The last time i bought zen at the beginning of June I got the 5000 zen bundle (which gave me 300 extra zen and so for STO would give me 4240 c points for my cash)

45 Euros = 5000 + 300 zen
45 Euros = GBP 36.35 (0.8777 x EURO)
45 Euros = $56.77 (1.26156 x EURO) - this does not equal $50 obviously.

Now converting sterling direct to dollars gets a similar result:

GBP 36.35 = $56.97 (1.56726 x GBP) - A difference here of 20 cents I can live with.

A direct conversion of USD price to sterling gives the following:

$50 = GBP 31.91 (0.638172 x USD)

An overall difference of GBP 4.44 from the actual charged price.

GBP 4.44 is approximately 14% of GBP 31.91

EU law only requires that the standard VAT rate must be at least 15% and the reduced rate at least 5% so my roundings may have given me the 14% rather than 15%.

This vat or purchase tax was formerly absorbed by PWE for many years, however they were pulled up for it i believe when they wanted to open their European servers and for european customers had to pass on the VAT charge. I don't believe US customers have this extra tax.

As I showed in my earlier post we seem to be paying between 14 and 15% TAX by paying in EURO against purchasing with USD directly. This is pretty much in line with EU legislation that minimum VAT for member states is 15%. The fluctuation is probably due to the fact that the USD to EUR conversion done by PWE in setting the 45 EUR price for 5000 zen is static while the actual EUR to GBP rate fluctuates (and has dropped 10% in the last year according to European Central Bank (ECB) (Source: http://www.ecb.int/stats/exchange/eurofxref/html/eurofxref-graph-gbp.en.html)

If we consider that the 45 EUR price is 39.13 EUR PLUS 5.87 EUR (15% VAT) then this gives the exchange rate used at the time as 50/39.13 = approximately 1.28 USD : 1 EUR

Bear in mind that the current actual conversion rate for USD : EUR is 1.25 USD : 1 EUR (and has dropped almost 13% over the past year as the EUR weakens against the dollar) (Source: http://www.ecb.int/stats/exchange/eurofxref/html/eurofxref-graph-usd.en.html)

so if PWE were to recalculate the EUR price even annually then the current price should be 50/1.25 = 40 EUR plus 40 @ 15% VAT = 6 EUR so the cost now would be 46 EUR for 5000 zen. not a big change. BUT.

If they had done this the same time last year however, the rate was 1.44 USD : 1 EUR so 50/1.44 = 34.72 EUR plus 34.72 @ 15 % = 5.21 EUR so the cost for the last year should have been 39.93 EUR, call it 40 EUR for simplicity sake, a saving for european customers of 5 EUR per purchase.

Should PWE review the EUR cost at least annually? Damn right they should (I would prefer quarterly but annually is at least a start). Will they? I doubt it but perhaps PWEBranflakes can highlight this concern to the accounts department as while PWE made extra money last year from it's EU customers than it rightly should have, if the EUR continues to weaken against the dollar the company will start losing money to it's EU customers..

.. damn maybe we shouldnt do anything or euro zone folks and brits will be worse off?[/COLOR]

im here to play a game not the stock exchange 1 set prise worked out equally job done everyone stops moaning. zen isnt working cryptic points direct was oh and can i ask what the youngest age of player for sto?

bumbleduck · July 2012

Still no response from devs about this?

eiledon · July 2012

If you want an official response you will generally have to raise a billing ticket. Although as stated above the error seems to be at Steam's end, so I would go ahead and raise a support ticket there also if I were you.

It is still early days of the zen conversion and I am not sure what percentage of STO players are UK based, and of those UK players how many use Steam so this is perhaps something they are not aware of.

Not being a user of Steam I am not up to speed on the process of buying game coin for game, is it the same price for zen for other PWE games (perfect world, battle of the immortals etc)?

krayuskorianis · July 2012

Not as much as USD prices are for Zen... Get over it.

eiledon · July 2012

krayuskorianis. you know not of what you speak. some other countries (european ones for example including the united kingdom) have to pay an additional purchase tax (called VAT) on zen - this is at a rate of 15% on top of the USD price. as far as i am aware there is no purchase tax on zen purchases in the US. so tell me how we are not paying as much again?

regardless of the fact that on top of this steam seems to be charging this guy the EURO price but as a GBP figure, essentially adding another 20% almost onto the price of zen via steam for him.

krayuskorianis · July 2012

eiledon wrote: »

krayuskorianis. you know not of what you speak. some other countries (european ones for example including the united kingdom) have to pay an additional purchase tax (called VAT) on zen - this is at a rate of 15% on top of the USD price. as far as i am aware there is no purchase tax on zen purchases in the US. so tell me how we are not paying as much again?

regardless of the fact that on top of this steam seems to be charging this guy the EURO price but as a GBP figure, essentially adding another 20% almost onto the price of zen via steam for him.

Like I stated, get over it. It isn't as much as the US have to pay.

eiledon · July 2012

krayuskorianis wrote: »

Not as much as USD prices are for Zen... Get over it.

krayuskorianis wrote: »

Like I stated, get over it. It isn't as much as the US have to pay.

<sniff> yup I should have detected the stench of troll at the first post. you really are a credit to your nation's education system on many levels. If you are unwilling to do the basic math, just say so and be done with it. but simply repeating the tired phrase "get over it" just confirms your inability to even grasp the issue let alone be in a position to comment. so thanks for taking part. I wish I had a booby prize to offer you.

tldr? get over it!

rikev · August 2012

This pricing inconsistency is still happening! Not buying anything else until it is fixed!

darkjeff · August 2012

It's cheaper in USD than Euros or GBP. It's kind of sad to see the "Ignorant American" stereotype played straight here, krayuskorianis may not even know that 4.50 Euro is 5.55 USD. :rolleyes:

bumbleduck wrote: »

But my post is about the difference between the prices listed when you buy Zen through Steam Wallet, and when you buy Zen through Zen billing page. At first I thought it was a general price increase but now I think that it is simply a mistake.

Zen billing page: 4.50 EURO to buy 500 Zen

Steam Wallet: 4.50 GBP to buy 500 Zen

Please adjust Steam Wallet pricing.

As others have said, this isn't a PWE or Cryptic issue, but a Steam issue. Steam has had issues with their European prices for a very, very long time. If you're not in North America, 90% of the time it's cheaper to get it from a brick&mortar store than from Steam because Steam has ridiculously stupid price conversion methods.

Like a game that's $60 USD being 60 Euros. That's 74 USD! :eek:

dracondarknight · August 2012

darkjeff wrote: »

It's cheaper in USD than Euros or GBP. It's kind of sad to see the "Ignorant American" stereotype played straight here, krayuskorianis may not even know that 4.50 Euro is 5.55 USD. :rolleyes:

As others have said, this isn't a PWE or Cryptic issue, but a Steam issue. Steam has had issues with their European prices for a very, very long time. If you're not in North America, 90% of the time it's cheaper to get it from a brick&mortar store than from Steam because Steam has ridiculously stupid price conversion methods.

Like a game that's $60 USD being 60 Euros. That's 74 USD! :eek:

Its not cheaper in the US, the US just doesn't have VAT, while most of the EU does.

Another thing people always conveniently forget is that money value is constantly changing. So I assume the GBP isue comes from exchange rate + VAT. This does btw not get updated every day but in intervalls(last probably along with zen conversion) -> So assume that it happened on a bad day for the GBP.

darkjeff · August 2012

dracondarknight wrote: »

Its not cheaper in the US, the US just doesn't have VAT, while most of the EU does.

If you don't have to pay tax, then it's cheaper.
You're paying less. :rolleyes:

Zen is more expensive than C points in the UK

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