I'm not seeing anything about Korvat being a Klingon colony it just says they had a conference there, in fact the article mentions that the novels say it was Klingon which is non-canon anyway, and the star charts say its a federation planet again non-canon
So who owns the colony is never determined.
Plus the article also does not mention which side attacked the planet in 2405 in fact in only mentions something from 2289.
So seeing as the ownership is not mentioned in anything Cryptic has to follow and their Path to 2409 is the only thing covering the beginning of the war and says this was in 2405 and not 2400 or when the Khitomer Accords dissolved you are in fact WRONG.
The war began in 2400 with the Federation's support of the Undine Gorn, not 2405. Also as it is canon that the planet was never mentioned to have belonged to either side, you and Cryptic are wrong.
I find this thread to be very entertaining and engaging. What can i say?
Shall i do my research on your person as well? It's not about the number of threads. Your dad should have told you that, btw.
Keep on thinking whatever you want to. I myself already learned alot about what a KDF player is like.
Not all that bad all in all, though i'm still not sure if it's community i'd enjoy.
I'm overwhelmed I have your papal blessing for freedom of thought and speech. So go ahead and do a numbers game with my posts if you want to sift through 500+ of them. I eagerly await your reply. I am, however, shocked you were able to survive this long without the classic familial reference employed when clearly expired of relevant thread content. Thank you for conforming to type as expected.
The war began in 2400 with the Federation's support of the Undine Gorn, not 2405.
No it did not, the war began in 2405, dissolving the Khitomer Accords does not means the Federation and Klingon Empire are at war it just means they aren't allies any more.
In fact the only canon time that the Federation and Empire went to war after the Khitomer Accords were dissolved that war started a year after the Accords were dissolved.
Also as it is canon that the planet was never mentioned to have belonged to either side, you and Cryptic are wrong.
How Cryptic decided it was a federation planet, there is nothing to contradict them and seeing as its THEIR GAME I don't see how they can be wrong about the back story of THEIR GAME.
No it did not, the war began in 2405, dissolving the Khitomer Accords does not means the Federation and Klingon Empire are at war it just means they aren't allies any more.
In fact the only canon time that the Federation and Empire went to war after the Khitomer Accords were dissolved that war started a year after the Accords were dissolved.
How Cryptic decided it was a federation planet, there is nothing to contradict them and seeing as its THEIR GAME I don't see how they can be wrong about the back story of THEIR GAME.
I never stated the dissolution of the Khitomer Accords began the war. It was the Federation supporting their Undine brethren and denouncing the Klingon attempt to defeat the Undine. Korvat was a reprisal of that public declaration and attempts to derail the cleansing of the Undine threat.
Soft canon is irrelevant. Cryptic is flaccidly soft canon. Therefore anything in this game that was not seen in Prime Universe on-screen or in film can be refuted as it is not canon and therefore not relevant.
Soft canon is irrelevant. Cryptic is flaccidly soft canon. Therefore anything in this game that was not seen in Prime Universe on-screen or in film can be refuted as it is not canon and therefore not relevant.
That includes the war. So everything is happy times after all, yay.
I never stated the dissolution of the Khitomer Accords began the war. It was the Federation supporting their Undine brethren and denouncing the Klingon attempt to defeat the Undine. Korvat was a reprisal of that public declaration and attempts to derail the cleansing of the Undine threat.
What the hell are you talking about?
Soft canon is irrelevant. Cryptic is flaccidly soft canon. Therefore anything in this game that was not seen in Prime Universe on-screen or in film can be refuted as it is not canon and therefore not relevant.
Then why are you playing a game which you believe is irrelevant and uses these so called irrelevant facts as part of its back-story that is according to you never going be relevant because its never going to be canon.
Then why are you playing a game which you believe is irrelevant and uses these so called irrelevant facts as part of its back-story that is according to you never going be relevant because its never going to be canon.
I don't hear the melodic sounds of post sifting? Is your fortitude so weak?
Why would i ever actually do that? You provided me with a pretty neat sample in this thread.
Hartzilla2007 is right though. If you just pick out the parts out of Cryptics storyline, that fit your interpretation of events. It's pretty pointless.
That's, to me, not what good guys, or the honorable warriors of TNG and DS9, would do.
What do you think about this question?
There are a vast amount of episodes from both TNG and DS9 that indicated that the Klingons arent as "honorable" as some would like to think. Honor is a personal trait, not a species. We just heard Worf drivel about it for 11 years.
But with that said, do I think the Klingons were "bad guys"...not really. Its all about how you perceive ones culture. I mean we've seen the Federation do some very shady business also.
I never stated the dissolution of the Khitomer Accords began the war. It was the Federation supporting their Undine brethren and denouncing the Klingon attempt to defeat the Undine. Korvat was a reprisal of that public declaration and attempts to derail the cleansing of the Undine threat
This statement is so transparently slanted as to make it very clear that any actual debate with you on the facts would be futile and a waste of my time. Pity.
The Klingons have never been for "free and fair elections" or winning "hearts and minds." Their own government is not a democracy or a republic. It's not a monarchy either. As for winning "hearts and minds" either you submit or get killed. That's it.
That's how the Klingon Empire has always operated. TOS, TMP, TNG, DS9 episodes and related movies. That's tradition.
This is simply not true. We know there is a lot of internal politicking. Some of it is done with Bat'leths in the open and some is done with knives in the dark, but much is also done by conventional lobbying. Being strong is popular, but misusing strength or even being too strong can lead to a fall.
It is sort of a meritocracy, with strength having a higher than normal weighting. It is not the only factor though, just as it isn't the only Klingon virtue.
This statement is so transparently slanted as to make it very clear that any actual debate with you on the facts would be futile and a waste of my time. Pity.
We all know your far leaning slant yet you felt the overwhelming need to post. Clearly you enjoy wasting your time yourself without provocation.
The Klingons in Star Trek Online are actually the good guys.
Once they realized that Undine infiltrators were secretly in control of the various Alpha Quadrant powers they decided to take it upon themselves to free the people of the Alpha Quadrant from them.
First they attacked the Gorn Hegemony, and once successful, they executed the Undine who had replaced its rulers years ago.
After informing the Federation that they had proof that the Undine had secretly assumed the identities of many nation's rulers, and that they were working against the Undine, the Federation decided to attack the Klingon Empire. Because the Undine that are secretly in control of the Federation didn't want to be outed and executed by warriors of the Empire.
All of this was explained in "The Path to 2409" which can still be found on stowiki.org. So while the Federation and Starfleet aren't themselves "bad guys" they are working for the bad guys, though many of them don't seem to be aware of it.
"Any change to non-good alignment immediately strips the ranger of all benefits, and the character becomes a fighter, with eight-sided hit dice, ever after, and can never regain ranger status."
The Klingons in Star Trek Online are actually the good guys.
Once they realized that Undine infiltrators were secretly in control of the various Alpha Quadrant powers they decided to take it upon themselves to free the people of the Alpha Quadrant from them.
First they attacked the Gorn Hegemony, and once successful, they executed the Undine who had replaced its rulers years ago.
After informing the Federation that they had proof that the Undine had secretly assumed the identities of many nation's rulers, and that they were working against the Undine, the Federation decided to attack the Klingon Empire. Because the Undine that are secretly in control of the Federation didn't want to be outed and executed by warriors of the Empire.
All of this was explained in "The Path to 2409" which can still be found on stowiki.org. So while the Federation and Starfleet aren't themselves "bad guys" they are working for the bad guys, though many of them don't seem to be aware of it.
To late! ... Fragile egoes bruised = Buffs to three Fed escorts. :O
Possibly as KDF fans we eered in acting the part of the brusque, ready to fight, lacking shades of grey mentality warriors and should have been the whining prima donna's to see our faction grow?
Dicussing ethics in a videogame, based on constant agression and greed. Destruction and covetousness. Come on. Open your eyes. Find a nice girl, and don't waste your time. (I may play games cos I am a loser and a failure)
Whatever we deny or embrace, we belong togheter./ Pat Benatar
The Klingons in Star Trek Online are actually the good guys.
Once they realized that Undine infiltrators were secretly in control of the various Alpha Quadrant powers they decided to take it upon themselves to free the people of the Alpha Quadrant from them.
First they attacked the Gorn Hegemony, and once successful, they executed the Undine who had replaced its rulers years ago.
All absolutely true. The KDF arguably has the right of the situation, all things considered.
After informing the Federation that they had proof that the Undine had secretly assumed the identities of many nation's rulers, and that they were working against the Undine, the Federation decided to attack the Klingon Empire. Because the Undine that are secretly in control of the Federation didn't want to be outed and executed by warriors of the Empire.
Mostly KDF spin. While it's entirely possible Undine infiltrators okay'd the first action against the KDF, it was not a Federation attack. It was a reaction against a KDF incursion.
All of this was explained in "The Path to 2409" which can still be found on stowiki.org. So while the Federation and Starfleet aren't themselves "bad guys" they are working for the bad guys, though many of them don't seem to be aware of it.
Evidence in the Fed-side quest line suggests Undine infiltration in the Federation is minimal; T'Vix, for example, was outed and captured, and the players themselves in the story are responsible for finding out a few Undine themselves.
It's worth noting, however, that Adm. Zelle went undetected until she "successfully" duped the player into aiding her infiltration of the RSE. So there are likely others so far undetected.
tl;dr, Your assessment is accurate in regards to the Klingons themselves, but is biased against the Federation. Just trying to clear up some misinformation. All in good fun.
All I know, is that for a social hierarchy that kills the incompetent, the dyslexic transporter officer who keeps beaming me back where I came from, seems to have no problem holding onto his job.
I completely agree that the Federation are the true villains here. The Empire were the ones that discovered the true extent of the Undine threat. They found MORE THAN A DOZEN Undine infiltrating the Gorn government, and when they go to the Federation asking for help in dealing with this very obvious dire threat, the Federation thumbs their noses at them and calls them barbarians. Starfleet acts like some kind of universal police force, telling every alien they meet what they can and cannot do, yet when a race goes to war with the Empire and they are defeated, suddenly the Empire is the aggressor?
It is true that the Empire in STO does some dishonorable things. But you must also remember that the leadership of the Empire was usurped from an honorable leader (Martok) by a cowardly politician who makes deals with pirates, mercenaries, and other space trash to attain his goals. The Empire is a glorious and honorable force of bravery. J'mpok is the problem. He must die, the Empire must cut its ties with the Orions, Letheans, and Nausicaans, or the Empire will not survive.
The Federation finds a new planet and the planet gets a choice..
1. join the federation, abide by its laws and have protection
or
2. Refuse and keep thier own laws and face the universe alone.
Does this sound like the classic mafia shakedown or what?
If the Federation wouldn't have gotten there and made that proposal only option 2 would apply.
Maybe you should add option 3: keep your independence, but be able to turn to the Federation for help, if your ego allows it.
Of course the Klingon Empire and their representatives would have given them far better choices out of more ulterior motives ...
The Klingons aren't the bad guys, but their representatives aren't really helping their case.
The Federation finds a new planet and the planet gets a choice..
1. join the federation, abide by its laws and have protection
or
2. Refuse and keep thier own laws and face the universe alone.
Does this sound like the classic mafia shakedown or what?
To be fair you can't really disparage the Federation because of this, all governments are like this to some extent or other. The original idea and form of governments were essentially giant protection rackets along the lines of 'you pay taxes and we don't burn your village down, but we also make sure that no one else will either.'
"Government is not reason. It is not eloquence. Government is force; like fire it is a dangerous servant -- and a fearful master." - George Washington, 1797
"Any change to non-good alignment immediately strips the ranger of all benefits, and the character becomes a fighter, with eight-sided hit dice, ever after, and can never regain ranger status."
Comments
The war began in 2400 with the Federation's support of the Undine Gorn, not 2405. Also as it is canon that the planet was never mentioned to have belonged to either side, you and Cryptic are wrong.
I'm overwhelmed I have your papal blessing for freedom of thought and speech. So go ahead and do a numbers game with my posts if you want to sift through 500+ of them. I eagerly await your reply. I am, however, shocked you were able to survive this long without the classic familial reference employed when clearly expired of relevant thread content. Thank you for conforming to type as expected.
No it did not, the war began in 2405, dissolving the Khitomer Accords does not means the Federation and Klingon Empire are at war it just means they aren't allies any more.
In fact the only canon time that the Federation and Empire went to war after the Khitomer Accords were dissolved that war started a year after the Accords were dissolved.
How Cryptic decided it was a federation planet, there is nothing to contradict them and seeing as its THEIR GAME I don't see how they can be wrong about the back story of THEIR GAME.
I never stated the dissolution of the Khitomer Accords began the war. It was the Federation supporting their Undine brethren and denouncing the Klingon attempt to defeat the Undine. Korvat was a reprisal of that public declaration and attempts to derail the cleansing of the Undine threat.
Soft canon is irrelevant. Cryptic is flaccidly soft canon. Therefore anything in this game that was not seen in Prime Universe on-screen or in film can be refuted as it is not canon and therefore not relevant.
Shouldn't you be sifting? Sift! Sift!
That includes the war. So everything is happy times after all, yay.
What the hell are you talking about?
Then why are you playing a game which you believe is irrelevant and uses these so called irrelevant facts as part of its back-story that is according to you never going be relevant because its never going to be canon.
I don't hear the melodic sounds of post sifting? Is your fortitude so weak?
Why did Kirk climb El Capitan?
Why would i ever actually do that? You provided me with a pretty neat sample in this thread.
Hartzilla2007 is right though. If you just pick out the parts out of Cryptics storyline, that fit your interpretation of events. It's pretty pointless.
You volunteered.
There are a vast amount of episodes from both TNG and DS9 that indicated that the Klingons arent as "honorable" as some would like to think. Honor is a personal trait, not a species. We just heard Worf drivel about it for 11 years.
But with that said, do I think the Klingons were "bad guys"...not really. Its all about how you perceive ones culture. I mean we've seen the Federation do some very shady business also.
Exchanged in Treaties. THe Federation didn't swoop in, kill a bunch of Klingons and tell them too bad the planet belongs to the Federation now.
The Klingons signed the treaties, they willingly gave up those systems and gained others in the process.
This statement is so transparently slanted as to make it very clear that any actual debate with you on the facts would be futile and a waste of my time. Pity.
This is simply not true. We know there is a lot of internal politicking. Some of it is done with Bat'leths in the open and some is done with knives in the dark, but much is also done by conventional lobbying. Being strong is popular, but misusing strength or even being too strong can lead to a fall.
It is sort of a meritocracy, with strength having a higher than normal weighting. It is not the only factor though, just as it isn't the only Klingon virtue.
We all know your far leaning slant yet you felt the overwhelming need to post. Clearly you enjoy wasting your time yourself without provocation.
Once they realized that Undine infiltrators were secretly in control of the various Alpha Quadrant powers they decided to take it upon themselves to free the people of the Alpha Quadrant from them.
First they attacked the Gorn Hegemony, and once successful, they executed the Undine who had replaced its rulers years ago.
After informing the Federation that they had proof that the Undine had secretly assumed the identities of many nation's rulers, and that they were working against the Undine, the Federation decided to attack the Klingon Empire. Because the Undine that are secretly in control of the Federation didn't want to be outed and executed by warriors of the Empire.
All of this was explained in "The Path to 2409" which can still be found on stowiki.org. So while the Federation and Starfleet aren't themselves "bad guys" they are working for the bad guys, though many of them don't seem to be aware of it.
Careful PF, you'll wound thier fragile fed egoes........
R.I.P
To late! ... Fragile egoes bruised = Buffs to three Fed escorts. :O
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
Possibly as KDF fans we eered in acting the part of the brusque, ready to fight, lacking shades of grey mentality warriors and should have been the whining prima donna's to see our faction grow?
R.I.P
They'll be buffing more ships now........................
R.I.P
Tier 5 Cruiser buffed to x2 hull
Mostly KDF spin. While it's entirely possible Undine infiltrators okay'd the first action against the KDF, it was not a Federation attack. It was a reaction against a KDF incursion.
Evidence in the Fed-side quest line suggests Undine infiltration in the Federation is minimal; T'Vix, for example, was outed and captured, and the players themselves in the story are responsible for finding out a few Undine themselves.
It's worth noting, however, that Adm. Zelle went undetected until she "successfully" duped the player into aiding her infiltration of the RSE. So there are likely others so far undetected.
tl;dr, Your assessment is accurate in regards to the Klingons themselves, but is biased against the Federation. Just trying to clear up some misinformation. All in good fun.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
It is true that the Empire in STO does some dishonorable things. But you must also remember that the leadership of the Empire was usurped from an honorable leader (Martok) by a cowardly politician who makes deals with pirates, mercenaries, and other space trash to attain his goals. The Empire is a glorious and honorable force of bravery. J'mpok is the problem. He must die, the Empire must cut its ties with the Orions, Letheans, and Nausicaans, or the Empire will not survive.
The Federation finds a new planet and the planet gets a choice..
1. join the federation, abide by its laws and have protection
or
2. Refuse and keep thier own laws and face the universe alone.
Does this sound like the classic mafia shakedown or what?
If the Federation wouldn't have gotten there and made that proposal only option 2 would apply.
Maybe you should add option 3: keep your independence, but be able to turn to the Federation for help, if your ego allows it.
Of course the Klingon Empire and their representatives would have given them far better choices out of more ulterior motives ...
The Klingons aren't the bad guys, but their representatives aren't really helping their case.
"Government is not reason. It is not eloquence. Government is force; like fire it is a dangerous servant -- and a fearful master." - George Washington, 1797