Full Impulse is practically lightspeed in any ship anyway. Given the crazy resources we see in Trek, I kinda think you could make a Galaxy as maneuverable as a Defiant, you'd just need to farm materials and pump resources into doing it. It wouldn't be common because the resources and systems would be so expensive/exotic. But you could do it.
You just might have to get your hands on Cytherian tech that's a 0.5% drop to get that kind of engine advancement.
But get that engine tech, apply it to a Galaxy's impulse engines and you have an escort.
If you want to mod a Galaxy to be as maneuverable as an escort... by the time you get it there it shouldn't be able to do much of anything else.
Full Impulse is practically lightspeed in any ship anyway. Given the crazy resources we see in Trek, I kinda think you could make a Galaxy as maneuverable as a Defiant, you'd just need to farm materials and pump resources into doing it. It wouldn't be common because the resources and systems would be so expensive/exotic. But you could do it.
You just might have to get your hands on Cytherian tech that's a 0.5% drop to get that kind of engine advancement.
But get that engine tech, apply it to a Galaxy's impulse engines and you have an escort.
I'm not concerned so much about the tech as I am the visual. Cruisers are always shown as big and ponderous. Flipping end for end like the Defiant just looks...well...stupid.
On the tech end of it, there's considerable mass and inertia involved with ships this big. You'd have to devote so much power and space to an engine to make it possible, there'd be little room for much else.
Going from cruiser to science ship? I can totally see that. Cruiser to escort? MAYBE in the light cruiser category...
Escort to cruiser? There's not enough hull structure there to justify the massive hull hit point. Escort to science? Not really enough room for sensor pallets, maybe if it had a larger overall internal volume like a Nova, but any of the current escorts? Can't see it.
I do dislike the classification system, but its a little late for that argument don't ya think. I only go the canon argument because some people tried to use the very isolated and hardly substantial evidence that it was a Science vessel. I agree that its modular design would give it a science lean, and was excited to see its introduction under dstahls build. My thinking is ANY class can fly a cruiser and make it work, Sci captains in cruisers are deadly, but a tac in an Sci ship isn't as effective by comparison.
Refactoring how ship classes work might not be off the plate yet. The separate roles of science/cruiser/escort are already blurred since the game has no true tanks or healers. The simple introduction of universal slots could open this up quite a bit.
Moving to a more flexibility modding solution?
It's still possible, but they'd have to take baby steps to get there.
I wish I found an "in" for game design. Having worked with reporting systems for 7 years, I know how to balance idealism with practicality, and have been gaming for a long time. I'd love to see my ideas get some attention. Sigh. It's frustrating to be creative with no outlet except game forums. =/
Looks like they bowed down to the silly notion that this ship is a science vessel. funny how the dozens of star trek games before this never did such a thing, much less the show or movies.
it has on been shown to fulfil a science role on many occasions, although those roles have been mainly invented by the game. voygaer is not a science ship either but they have to match them up. why prevoiuse star trek games have any bearing on this is beyond me. voyager is an iconic ship that many want but i dont hear many complaints about that ship being in the wrong class.
We get it... science needs some ships, so give them some ships, but don't give them such a sought after design such as the nebula which has the most in common with the Galaxy more than any other ship.
wow, so cruiser captains are more important than science captains to you then? all the most popular ships should go to cruiser captains.
as for being the most sought after or most common. after any evidence on that. half the people i have heard hate the ship just as much as other love it.
This is soo dissapointing, effectively all the rest of us can't use it.
of course you can. try rolling a science officer or try using your current character in it. i will most likely use my engineer to play this. if you think science ships are underpowered, again fine but dont tell me science captains should not get iconic ships just because you want it to be a cruiser.
If they're going to bow to popular sentiment when even misplaced, this game will only suffer in the future. The majority is not always right
again wow, so your opinion is right and the majority is wrong. if you dont like a science ship, then by all means say so but please dont pretend you know what is best for the game or the tell the majority what to believe is right based on your own viewpoint. the majority is not always right, but there is no right and wrong answer here. there are three options. each as valid as the next.
im sorry but there are three groups. escorts, science and cruisers. we all have equal share in what the game should have developed.
it looks like they have gone with what the majority wants, and because it is not what you want your complaining about it as if they are ruining the game, or they are breaking canon or some other nonsense. if you dont want it to be a science ship then your of course free to say that, but saying it should be a cruiser for the good of the game, or the majority opinion will harm the game is just coming across as arrogance and selfishness.
I think people try too much to fit their career choice to ship type. Science captain is probably the only one, who works great in all ships and doesn't loose anything of their potential.
I think people try too much to fit their career choice to ship type. Science captain is probably the only one, who works great in all ships and doesn't loose anything of their potential.
I feel it in others, with certain level 3 abilities. Namely Torpedo: High Yield.
I really want it for my escort but my Captain is an engineer.
Meanwhile my tactical Captain is piloting a cruiser that does have that skill.
If for that skill alone, those captains will be respec'ed to switch roles before too long.
I accept your resignation... please sign here and be on your way now...
I for one am perfectly fine with the Nebula being a science vessel. I'm not as selfish to think only of myself (I don't have a science officer) and to try to hoard all ships under an umbrella that I will play. We honestly need some variety, the more variety the better. I don't want every ship that comes out to be a Cruiser (Galaxy X), Cruiser (Excelsior), Cruiser (proposed Nebula).
I think making the Nebula a science vessel, with 6 slots for weapons an impressive sci console load out and a universal Boff slot actually genius. Not every ship needs to be "beam weapons o' death".
And don't talk about "Canon" There is nothing "canon" about STO breaking up Starships into 3 categories in the first place. Not only does Starfleet have all naval designations for their ships but they have "new" ones such as "explorer" which the Navy doesn't have. The way STO breaks up the starships was only an attempt (and rightfully so) to mimic common MMO archetypes of Tanker/DPSer/Healer/Buffer. So yeah, its not "canon" but STO isn't really "canon" to begin with.
Cruisers have HIGH hull, Med shield, Low turn, equal front:back weapon hardpoints
Science ships have Med Hull, HIGH Shield, Med turn, and slightly lighter hardpoints
Escorts/Frigates have Low hull, Med shield, high turn, aggressive hardpoints
which match up with what we have now. Nebula would be a cruiser hull.
Then ALL ships have a standard loadout for BO slots and consoles.
2 of each console
4 Lt. BO slots (one of each + 1 universal)
THEN you choose a layout in the shipyard, 6 total layouts.
Patrol: +2 Tac consoles, +1 sci console, Tac BO goes CMDR, sci Bo goes LtCMDR, and you get an extra ensign tac BO (or just a universal ensign BO slot, in any layout)
Task Force: +2 tac con, + 1 eng con, Tac BO goes CMDR, Eng. Bo goes LtCMDR, etc....
Exploration: +2 Eng consoles, +1 sci consoles, Eng BO: CMDR, Sci BO: LtCMDR, etc...
Vanguard: +2 Eng consoles, +1 tac consoles, Eng BO: CMDR, Sci BO: Lt CMDR, etc...
ANY hull can choose ANY layout if they wish.
If it needs to stay simple, only do this for T5+ ships, and let any ship get "refit" with a new layout. (IE: all ships have a "default" layout and its unchangeable until you earn the right to do so when you make admiral.
You can even tie in crafting or hoops to jump through to earn the layout "tokens" (or finally a use for merits...)
the hulls still get tech upgrades when they are refit to T5 level so they have more hardpoints, better shields, hull, more hardpoints, etc but the internal loadout is determined by the captain selecting his mission package.
Its more realistic, its more flexible, its funner.
From what I can see in this thread is there is a lot of cruiser captains going "No..no, that is my favorite ship but doesn't fit my build"
Personally I think that is hilarious. Well, then don't use it. Don't buy it, don't fly it. Just because it might be your favorite ship doesn't mean you have to use it. Or you can do what others do and make an alt to fly it.
As far as it being worthless in PVP I think that is wrong and a tragedy at the same time. Not because of the Nebula supposedly being worthless but people who say this are worthless. To me is says that said person is all about themselves and not winning as a team. They don't want to be the support person but they scream and throw baby fits when they don't get the support. Ships and builds don't make pvp. People do.
How many times does it have to be said that a team with coordinated players working together even with crappy builds will triumph nine times outta ten over the lone wolf jerks who have the stellar build but no teamwork or coordination. What happens to those lone wolves? They lose the match and then blame everyone else but themselves.
The truth be told is that the majority of the game is built around PVE not PVP, and while I respect the time and dedication that the hardcore players of PVP put into their ships/build the overall point is the game is about Star Trek and PVE not the demand or wishes of the hard core PVP players. While the majority may not always be right it is the majority that is footing the majority of the bill so they do deserve to be listened too.
I'll never believe the Intrepid is a science vessel. It was launched to capture Maquis in the Badlands--a combat mission, if anything. It was the fastest and one of the most agile ships in the fleet at the time of launch. It had bio-neural gelpacks to improve responsiveness. It was launched with seemingly no dedicated science personnel. It has few science labs, and only the Astrometric Lab is seen often and that wasn't part of the original design.
The one case you could make is that it was designed for long-range exploration but... without an astrometrics lab? That doesn't make any sense...
Meanwhile its speed, agility, and responsiveness all lend to it being a combat-oriented ship.
A light cruiser, maybe. A science vessel? No way.
For the record, they never said prior to 7's construction that there was no astrometrics lab, nor even that there wasn't already one in place of what we later see. As far as anyone knows, 7 just took what was already there and improved it with Borg technology, adding a few extra things like a better screen.
I've always considered the Intrepid to be somewhat of a long range scout vessel due to its small size and speed, which is primarily why it makes a good choice for flying through the badlands which could otherwise have been fatal to a larger ship.
As for the Intrepid being a light cruiser? Not a chance, but then people's definition of a light cruiser seems to be somewhat off the ball - especialy when something like a Miranda is being defined as such in STO.
I think you misinterpret something people are saying. I personally would rather see it a viable cruiser, than crappy science DSSV variant with even horrible turn rate, which has universal slot, that is not universal at all but has 1 BO station less and also suffers from design flaw in of science ship stat budget. With a special ability used only in PvP with questionable effect.
On the other hand, I would like much more to see it a well designed science vessel than a cruiser.
To me it seems that some people are so much hoping for it to be a science vessel, that they are blind to actual usefulness and balance (i hate that word) of ships.
But it hardly surprises me. Most of those people said the previous Excelsior layout (the one with lt.cmd science) was balanced and fine also. :rolleyes: Yet people still whine about the "nerfed" version.
From what I can see in this thread is there is a lot of cruiser captains going "No..no, that is my favorite ship but doesn't fit my build"
I guess my only real complaint that the Nebula is a science ship is...I wanted something that looks better for my star cruiser. I like the ship type, I just can't make the current part selection look good with it.
Oh well, maybe the next large ship class. I can dream.
ok ive been paying attention to all of the posts on the forums egarding the nebula class starship. i know some of you where looking forward to a cruiser, but i happen to have several Star Trek books that are nothing but ships and blueprints of ships. and in all of those books i read that a Nebula Class Starship is infact....a Science Class Starship. hence the name "nebula" it was originaly outfited with heavy shielding to be able to stay within a nebula for longer piriods of time then the Galaxy Class. these shields kept better protection from raidiation and harmful gasses that emminate from nebulas and othe stellar phenominon.
so there you have it cryptic took the right step in making the nebula a Sci ship. im sure cryptic studys all of these aspects before putting a starship into the game so try to bear with them. after all we are only human.
If Cryptic sticks to their guns and keeps it a Science Vessel, I'm so doing the Snoopy Dance. And trust me, those that know of my limited mobility will tell you that is quite a gesture.:D
Oh it is a science ship alright, the problem is I don't see any reason to replace the sci ltc with an eng ltc on a science ship.
What would I gain by that? Somehow it seems even worse than a DSSV. Science vessel are bad enough as they are, taking away science abilites from their setup won't make them better.
Oh it is a science ship alright, the problem is I don't see any reason to replace the sci ltc with an eng ltc on a science ship.
What would I gain by that? Somehow it seems even worse than a DSSV. Science vessel are bad enough as they are, taking away science abilites from their setup won't make them better.
People do not listen. Even if it had one phaser and would shoot snowballs out of their tubes, they would still want it. No matter if the layout is bad or good, its a science vessel, hence it must be a science vessel.
I guess my only real complaint that the Nebula is a science ship is...I wanted something that looks better for my star cruiser. I like the ship type, I just can't make the current part selection look good with it.
Oh well, maybe the next large ship class. I can dream.
Well I can agree the Star Cruisers need some adjusting (*cough redesigned)
To me they look like a cross between a space luxury liner and a space pickle.
As of this writing, the Nebula is a Science Vessel...
Aaaaand that's $15 of my hard-earned money going straight back into my bank account.
I love the Nebula-class. They're awesome ships with a lot of heart. Turning them into science vessels, with their nerfed skills and gimpy weapons and weak consoles, is turning a Porsche into a Pinto.
An impressive sci console load doesn't mean anything when the consoles suck and the skills are next to useless.
Also, I loathe that the ship seems to be built towards being good at only one thing: decloaking Klingons in PVP. Like all science vessels, this ship appears to have absolutely nothing for the solo player.
Oh it is a science ship alright, the problem is I don't see any reason to replace the sci ltc with an eng ltc on a science ship.
What would I gain by that? Somehow it seems even worse than a DSSV. Science vessel are bad enough as they are, taking away science abilites from their setup won't make them better.
All the t5 ships are like that:
Assault cruiser:
Cmdr Eng
Lt Eng
ensign eng
Ltc Tac
Lt Sci
Star Cruiser:
Cmdr Eng
Lt eng
ensign eng
Ltc Sci
lt tac
Deepspace Sci vessel
Cmdr sci
lt sci
ensign sci
LtC eng
Lt Tac
The LtC slot is always the "subspec" of the ship (assaults are more tactical, starcruisers more science, DSSV are sci/eng)
Thus the Nebula is subspec engineering, too. The difference is, the Lt slot isnt locked in as Science, its universal, so it could be Lt Eng OR Lt Tac.
which makes its pretty versatile.
the consoles arent that important, esp. if its 4-3-2
Aaaaand that's $15 of my hard-earned money going straight back into my bank account.
I love the Nebula-class. They're awesome ships with a lot of heart. Turning them into science vessels, with their nerfed skills and gimpy weapons and weak consoles, is turning a Porsche into a Pinto.
An impressive sci console load doesn't mean anything when the consoles suck and the skills are next to useless.
Also, I loathe that the ship seems to be built towards being good at only one thing: decloaking Klingons in PVP. Like all science vessels, this ship appears to have absolutely nothing for the solo player.
I disagree, the skills are far from useless and while the consoles could be better the do make the skills that much more useful.
I kind of see science skills as the ones you don't see to much of an immediate effect but you feel it when they aren't there.
Aaaaand that's $15 of my hard-earned money going straight back into my bank account.
I love the Nebula-class. They're awesome ships with a lot of heart. Turning them into science vessels, with their nerfed skills and gimpy weapons and weak consoles, is turning a Porsche into a Pinto.
An impressive sci console load doesn't mean anything when the consoles suck and the skills are next to useless.
Also, I loathe that the ship seems to be built towards being good at only one thing: decloaking Klingons in PVP. Like all science vessels, this ship appears to have absolutely nothing for the solo player.
Aaaaand that's $15 of my hard-earned money going straight back into my bank account.
I love the Nebula-class. They're awesome ships with a lot of heart. Turning them into science vessels, with their nerfed skills and gimpy weapons and weak consoles, is turning a Porsche into a Pinto.
An impressive sci console load doesn't mean anything when the consoles suck and the skills are next to useless.
Also, I loathe that the ship seems to be built towards being good at only one thing: decloaking Klingons in PVP. Like all science vessels, this ship appears to have absolutely nothing for the solo player.
How is that an excuse to make every new ship into a cruiser? You have the Excelsior With a LC TAC slot and the Galaxy-X with cloaking and the ability to equip heavy cannons. Why not Let the Science group get some love? I suppose you guys will put up a stink when they make a future ship into an escort (if it ever happens) and demand that be a cruiser too since it is too cool and/or iconic to be anything but a Cruiser.
Why don't we just Turn every Ship in the game into a Cruiser then, and call it a day?
How is that an excuse to make every new ship into a cruiser? You have the Excelsior With a LC TAC slot and the Galaxy-X with cloaking and the ability to equip heavy cannons. Why not Let the Science group get some love? I suppose you guys will put up a stink when they make a future ship into an escort (if it ever happens) and demand that be a cruiser too since it is too cool and/or iconic to be anything but a Cruiser.
Why don't we just Turn every Ship in the game into a Cruiser then, and call it a day?
So you rather prefer to have it a bad science ship, than a fine cruiser ? Well if its worth your money go ahead.
I disagree, the skills are far from useless and while the consoles could be better the do make the skills that much more useful.
I kind of see science skills as the ones you don't see to much of an immediate effect but you feel it when they aren't there.
I play solo. In order to kill anything solo I have to either throw everything into aux and spam my handful of decent skills in the hopes I can get a fatal high-yield torpedo in, which I never can, or poke the other guy with my gimpy six weapons for five minutes until he blows up. Either way I do it, the fights are dull and unsatisfying, and none of the powers seem to have any significant effect aside from Scramble Sensors. What does Tachyon Beam have that I couldn't get from EP to Weapons III? Why should I value CPB III more than RSP III, or TR III more than EWP III?
Science ships are weaksauce damage-dealers, their skills have no oomph, and just using them means you can't even lazor. I really don't want to fly a tricobalt bomber. And the Nebber doesn't even look like it's a good tric bomber candidate. If it's laid out as it seems to be, it's basically a ship that can stay alive forever by healing itself while gently prodding foes to death.
How is that an excuse to make every new ship into a cruiser? You have the Excelsior With a LC TAC slot and the Galaxy-X with cloaking and the ability to equip heavy cannons. Why not Let the Science group get some love? I suppose you guys will put up a stink when they make a future ship into an escort (if it ever happens) and demand that be a cruiser too since it is too cool and/or iconic to be anything but a Cruiser.
Why don't we just Turn every Ship in the game into a Cruiser then, and call it a day?
No, I'd be quite pleased with a new escort because escorts can kill things. They're useful. They make meaningful contributions to the battle. They have heavy flaws but can actually make their presence felt. Science can barely do anything beyond pop a couple of heals and cower weakly.
I don't want to see any more science vessels until science vessels don't suck anymore. They need a severe un-nerfing.
This whole straw man that "everyone who doesn't want the Nebula to be a sci just wants every ship in the game to be a cruiser" is complete nonsense. What I want is for the Nebula to be good. If that means un-nerfing science, fine. If it means making it an escort, good.
So you rather prefer to have it a bad science ship, than a fine cruiser ? Well if its worth your money go ahead.
I do not see the point why Science ships are 'bad'?
I have superior shields with a science ship .. i have subsystem targeting where i can take out shields, weapons, engines or Aux-systems.
I can lower an enemies shield dramatically with Charged Particle Burst (i use CPB III and 118 aux energie those shield melt like nothing). i have Gravitywell III which causes significant damage if aux is set to maximum.
All i have to do is switch between defensive (100 auxenergie), fire CPB, GW (and other science abilities) and then switch to offensive (100 weapons energie) and fire weapons. (and switch back to devensive when the scienceskills are ready again.)
So i really do not need 8 weaponsslots. Far from it! 6 weapons slots mean less powerdrain on my Weaponsenergie!
so why are some people here claiming again and again that science ships are bad?
I play solo. In order to kill anything solo I have to either throw everything into aux and spam my handful of decent skills in the hopes I can get a fatal high-yield torpedo in, which I never can, or poke the other guy with my gimpy six weapons for five minutes until he blows up.(...)
Sorry but have ever come to your mind that you make something wrong ? i cannot bring enemies as fast as an escort down but a cruiser is not faster in killing enemies (and i have all three classes as VA1 so i know what i'm speaking of )
I do not see the point why Science ships are 'bad'?
I habe superior shields with a science ship .. i habe subsystem targeting where i can take out Schields, weapons, engines or Aux-systems.
I can lower an enemies shield dramatically with Charged Particle Burst (i use CPB III and 118 aux energie those shield melt like nothing). i Have Gravitywell III which causes significant damage if aux is set to maximum.
All i have to do is switch between defensive (100 auxenergie), fire CPB, GW (and other science abilities) and then switch to offensive (100 weapons energie) and fire weapons.
So i really do not need 8 weaponsslots. Far from it! 6 weapons slots mean less powerdrain on my Weaponsenergie!
so why are some people here claiming again and again that science ships are bad?
MfG Michael
I said the Gecko's nebula layout, not the ships. Although science ships in general are a bit weaker. But if you feel they are fine, I'm happy for you, because for me, any other ship can achieve much greater results. That either means I'm TRIBBLE with science ships, or I'm good with the others.
But lets wait for tribble test, I would rather be surprised than to be right in this case however, its pretty boring to see cruisers everywhere.
Sorry but have ever come to your mind that you make something wrong ? i cannot bring enemies as fast as an escort down but a cruiser is not faster in killing enemies (and i have all three classes as VA1 so i know what i'm speaking of )
MfG Michael
My cruiser kills enemies about as fast as most escort players I roll with.
I've tried every ship class in this game with multiple combinations of captains and science is by far the most unsatisfying ship to fight with. I've tried multiple avenues to try and get the most out of the ship. It still sucks. Switching constantly between aux and weapons sucks. Having fewer weapons than everyone else sucks. Needing to fill one of my few engineering consoles with an EPS just so I can operate normally sucks.
Please dispense with the ad-hominem attacks on my gameplay. It should not be startling to anyone that science ships have serious issues.
...so why are some people here claiming again and again that science ships are bad?
MfG Michael
Because the cruiser folks have no clue how to play a science Ship. It's true that Science ships are not too effective unless you invest heavily in science skills, But when you do, they are more than viable. Engineer and Tactical skill help each other out a good deal, but higher tier science skills don't carry over well at all.
So When a cruiser captain Tries a science ship with their skills all in Weapons and Engineering with a few token science skills, They can't run a Science ship effectively and thus deeming it sucky.
Honestly, this could have been the Federation version of the 'universal' ship. With universal cons like the Klingon BOP. Why? Cause it would actually be kinda canon.
The Nebula took on the role of the venerable Miranda class, a medium cruiser that could be easily outfitted to multiple roles. Sometimes it was a science cruiser, but swap out some sections and wala, you've got a tactical cruiser.
Comments
If you want to mod a Galaxy to be as maneuverable as an escort... by the time you get it there it shouldn't be able to do much of anything else.
I'm not concerned so much about the tech as I am the visual. Cruisers are always shown as big and ponderous. Flipping end for end like the Defiant just looks...well...stupid.
On the tech end of it, there's considerable mass and inertia involved with ships this big. You'd have to devote so much power and space to an engine to make it possible, there'd be little room for much else.
Going from cruiser to science ship? I can totally see that. Cruiser to escort? MAYBE in the light cruiser category...
Escort to cruiser? There's not enough hull structure there to justify the massive hull hit point. Escort to science? Not really enough room for sensor pallets, maybe if it had a larger overall internal volume like a Nova, but any of the current escorts? Can't see it.
Refactoring how ship classes work might not be off the plate yet. The separate roles of science/cruiser/escort are already blurred since the game has no true tanks or healers. The simple introduction of universal slots could open this up quite a bit.
Moving to a more flexibility modding solution?
It's still possible, but they'd have to take baby steps to get there.
I wish I found an "in" for game design. Having worked with reporting systems for 7 years, I know how to balance idealism with practicality, and have been gaming for a long time. I'd love to see my ideas get some attention. Sigh. It's frustrating to be creative with no outlet except game forums. =/
it has on been shown to fulfil a science role on many occasions, although those roles have been mainly invented by the game. voygaer is not a science ship either but they have to match them up. why prevoiuse star trek games have any bearing on this is beyond me. voyager is an iconic ship that many want but i dont hear many complaints about that ship being in the wrong class.
wow, so cruiser captains are more important than science captains to you then? all the most popular ships should go to cruiser captains.
as for being the most sought after or most common. after any evidence on that. half the people i have heard hate the ship just as much as other love it.
of course you can. try rolling a science officer or try using your current character in it. i will most likely use my engineer to play this. if you think science ships are underpowered, again fine but dont tell me science captains should not get iconic ships just because you want it to be a cruiser.
again wow, so your opinion is right and the majority is wrong. if you dont like a science ship, then by all means say so but please dont pretend you know what is best for the game or the tell the majority what to believe is right based on your own viewpoint. the majority is not always right, but there is no right and wrong answer here. there are three options. each as valid as the next.
im sorry but there are three groups. escorts, science and cruisers. we all have equal share in what the game should have developed.
it looks like they have gone with what the majority wants, and because it is not what you want your complaining about it as if they are ruining the game, or they are breaking canon or some other nonsense. if you dont want it to be a science ship then your of course free to say that, but saying it should be a cruiser for the good of the game, or the majority opinion will harm the game is just coming across as arrogance and selfishness.
I feel it in others, with certain level 3 abilities. Namely Torpedo: High Yield.
I really want it for my escort but my Captain is an engineer.
Meanwhile my tactical Captain is piloting a cruiser that does have that skill.
If for that skill alone, those captains will be respec'ed to switch roles before too long.
PREACH ON MIRNEA, PREACH ON.:D
Change to hull classifications.
Cruisers have HIGH hull, Med shield, Low turn, equal front:back weapon hardpoints
Science ships have Med Hull, HIGH Shield, Med turn, and slightly lighter hardpoints
Escorts/Frigates have Low hull, Med shield, high turn, aggressive hardpoints
which match up with what we have now. Nebula would be a cruiser hull.
Then ALL ships have a standard loadout for BO slots and consoles.
2 of each console
4 Lt. BO slots (one of each + 1 universal)
THEN you choose a layout in the shipyard, 6 total layouts.
Patrol: +2 Tac consoles, +1 sci console, Tac BO goes CMDR, sci Bo goes LtCMDR, and you get an extra ensign tac BO (or just a universal ensign BO slot, in any layout)
Task Force: +2 tac con, + 1 eng con, Tac BO goes CMDR, Eng. Bo goes LtCMDR, etc....
Support: +2 sci console, +1 eng console, Sci BO: Cmdr, Eng BO: LtCMDR, etc...
Recon: +2 sci console, +1 tac console, Sci BO: Cmdr, Tac BO: LtCMDR, etc...
Exploration: +2 Eng consoles, +1 sci consoles, Eng BO: CMDR, Sci BO: LtCMDR, etc...
Vanguard: +2 Eng consoles, +1 tac consoles, Eng BO: CMDR, Sci BO: Lt CMDR, etc...
ANY hull can choose ANY layout if they wish.
If it needs to stay simple, only do this for T5+ ships, and let any ship get "refit" with a new layout. (IE: all ships have a "default" layout and its unchangeable until you earn the right to do so when you make admiral.
You can even tie in crafting or hoops to jump through to earn the layout "tokens" (or finally a use for merits...)
the hulls still get tech upgrades when they are refit to T5 level so they have more hardpoints, better shields, hull, more hardpoints, etc but the internal loadout is determined by the captain selecting his mission package.
Its more realistic, its more flexible, its funner.
Ui tweaks for PVP are of course needed.
Personally I think that is hilarious. Well, then don't use it. Don't buy it, don't fly it. Just because it might be your favorite ship doesn't mean you have to use it. Or you can do what others do and make an alt to fly it.
As far as it being worthless in PVP I think that is wrong and a tragedy at the same time. Not because of the Nebula supposedly being worthless but people who say this are worthless. To me is says that said person is all about themselves and not winning as a team. They don't want to be the support person but they scream and throw baby fits when they don't get the support. Ships and builds don't make pvp. People do.
How many times does it have to be said that a team with coordinated players working together even with crappy builds will triumph nine times outta ten over the lone wolf jerks who have the stellar build but no teamwork or coordination. What happens to those lone wolves? They lose the match and then blame everyone else but themselves.
The truth be told is that the majority of the game is built around PVE not PVP, and while I respect the time and dedication that the hardcore players of PVP put into their ships/build the overall point is the game is about Star Trek and PVE not the demand or wishes of the hard core PVP players. While the majority may not always be right it is the majority that is footing the majority of the bill so they do deserve to be listened too.
For the record, they never said prior to 7's construction that there was no astrometrics lab, nor even that there wasn't already one in place of what we later see. As far as anyone knows, 7 just took what was already there and improved it with Borg technology, adding a few extra things like a better screen.
I've always considered the Intrepid to be somewhat of a long range scout vessel due to its small size and speed, which is primarily why it makes a good choice for flying through the badlands which could otherwise have been fatal to a larger ship.
As for the Intrepid being a light cruiser? Not a chance, but then people's definition of a light cruiser seems to be somewhat off the ball - especialy when something like a Miranda is being defined as such in STO.
On the other hand, I would like much more to see it a well designed science vessel than a cruiser.
To me it seems that some people are so much hoping for it to be a science vessel, that they are blind to actual usefulness and balance (i hate that word) of ships.
But it hardly surprises me. Most of those people said the previous Excelsior layout (the one with lt.cmd science) was balanced and fine also. :rolleyes: Yet people still whine about the "nerfed" version.
I guess my only real complaint that the Nebula is a science ship is...I wanted something that looks better for my star cruiser. I like the ship type, I just can't make the current part selection look good with it.
Oh well, maybe the next large ship class. I can dream.
so there you have it cryptic took the right step in making the nebula a Sci ship. im sure cryptic studys all of these aspects before putting a starship into the game so try to bear with them. after all we are only human.
Admiral Morkeberg
What would I gain by that? Somehow it seems even worse than a DSSV. Science vessel are bad enough as they are, taking away science abilites from their setup won't make them better.
People do not listen. Even if it had one phaser and would shoot snowballs out of their tubes, they would still want it. No matter if the layout is bad or good, its a science vessel, hence it must be a science vessel.
Well I can agree the Star Cruisers need some adjusting (*cough redesigned)
To me they look like a cross between a space luxury liner and a space pickle.
Aaaaand that's $15 of my hard-earned money going straight back into my bank account.
I love the Nebula-class. They're awesome ships with a lot of heart. Turning them into science vessels, with their nerfed skills and gimpy weapons and weak consoles, is turning a Porsche into a Pinto.
An impressive sci console load doesn't mean anything when the consoles suck and the skills are next to useless.
Also, I loathe that the ship seems to be built towards being good at only one thing: decloaking Klingons in PVP. Like all science vessels, this ship appears to have absolutely nothing for the solo player.
All the t5 ships are like that:
Assault cruiser:
Cmdr Eng
Lt Eng
ensign eng
Ltc Tac
Lt Sci
Star Cruiser:
Cmdr Eng
Lt eng
ensign eng
Ltc Sci
lt tac
Deepspace Sci vessel
Cmdr sci
lt sci
ensign sci
LtC eng
Lt Tac
The LtC slot is always the "subspec" of the ship (assaults are more tactical, starcruisers more science, DSSV are sci/eng)
Thus the Nebula is subspec engineering, too. The difference is, the Lt slot isnt locked in as Science, its universal, so it could be Lt Eng OR Lt Tac.
which makes its pretty versatile.
the consoles arent that important, esp. if its 4-3-2
I disagree, the skills are far from useless and while the consoles could be better the do make the skills that much more useful.
I kind of see science skills as the ones you don't see to much of an immediate effect but you feel it when they aren't there.
I absolutely agree.
How is that an excuse to make every new ship into a cruiser? You have the Excelsior With a LC TAC slot and the Galaxy-X with cloaking and the ability to equip heavy cannons. Why not Let the Science group get some love? I suppose you guys will put up a stink when they make a future ship into an escort (if it ever happens) and demand that be a cruiser too since it is too cool and/or iconic to be anything but a Cruiser.
Why don't we just Turn every Ship in the game into a Cruiser then, and call it a day?
So you rather prefer to have it a bad science ship, than a fine cruiser ? Well if its worth your money
I play solo. In order to kill anything solo I have to either throw everything into aux and spam my handful of decent skills in the hopes I can get a fatal high-yield torpedo in, which I never can, or poke the other guy with my gimpy six weapons for five minutes until he blows up. Either way I do it, the fights are dull and unsatisfying, and none of the powers seem to have any significant effect aside from Scramble Sensors. What does Tachyon Beam have that I couldn't get from EP to Weapons III? Why should I value CPB III more than RSP III, or TR III more than EWP III?
Science ships are weaksauce damage-dealers, their skills have no oomph, and just using them means you can't even lazor. I really don't want to fly a tricobalt bomber. And the Nebber doesn't even look like it's a good tric bomber candidate. If it's laid out as it seems to be, it's basically a ship that can stay alive forever by healing itself while gently prodding foes to death.
Talk about a fail wagon.
No, I'd be quite pleased with a new escort because escorts can kill things. They're useful. They make meaningful contributions to the battle. They have heavy flaws but can actually make their presence felt. Science can barely do anything beyond pop a couple of heals and cower weakly.
I don't want to see any more science vessels until science vessels don't suck anymore. They need a severe un-nerfing.
This whole straw man that "everyone who doesn't want the Nebula to be a sci just wants every ship in the game to be a cruiser" is complete nonsense. What I want is for the Nebula to be good. If that means un-nerfing science, fine. If it means making it an escort, good.
I do not see the point why Science ships are 'bad'?
I have superior shields with a science ship .. i have subsystem targeting where i can take out shields, weapons, engines or Aux-systems.
I can lower an enemies shield dramatically with Charged Particle Burst (i use CPB III and 118 aux energie those shield melt like nothing). i have Gravitywell III which causes significant damage if aux is set to maximum.
All i have to do is switch between defensive (100 auxenergie), fire CPB, GW (and other science abilities) and then switch to offensive (100 weapons energie) and fire weapons. (and switch back to devensive when the scienceskills are ready again.)
So i really do not need 8 weaponsslots. Far from it! 6 weapons slots mean less powerdrain on my Weaponsenergie!
so why are some people here claiming again and again that science ships are bad?
MfG Michael
Sorry but have ever come to your mind that you make something wrong
MfG Michael
I said the Gecko's nebula layout, not the ships. Although science ships in general are a bit weaker. But if you feel they are fine, I'm happy for you, because for me, any other ship can achieve much greater results. That either means I'm TRIBBLE with science ships, or I'm good with the others.
But lets wait for tribble test, I would rather be surprised than to be right in this case however, its pretty boring to see cruisers everywhere.
My cruiser kills enemies about as fast as most escort players I roll with.
I've tried every ship class in this game with multiple combinations of captains and science is by far the most unsatisfying ship to fight with. I've tried multiple avenues to try and get the most out of the ship. It still sucks. Switching constantly between aux and weapons sucks. Having fewer weapons than everyone else sucks. Needing to fill one of my few engineering consoles with an EPS just so I can operate normally sucks.
Please dispense with the ad-hominem attacks on my gameplay. It should not be startling to anyone that science ships have serious issues.
Because the cruiser folks have no clue how to play a science Ship. It's true that Science ships are not too effective unless you invest heavily in science skills, But when you do, they are more than viable. Engineer and Tactical skill help each other out a good deal, but higher tier science skills don't carry over well at all.
So When a cruiser captain Tries a science ship with their skills all in Weapons and Engineering with a few token science skills, They can't run a Science ship effectively and thus deeming it sucky.
The Nebula took on the role of the venerable Miranda class, a medium cruiser that could be easily outfitted to multiple roles. Sometimes it was a science cruiser, but swap out some sections and wala, you've got a tactical cruiser.