Odd, it is a cruiser? I never read up on the nebula; I know not very trekkie crucify me later, I for some reason always just thought it was a science ship. Maybe it was something suggestive in the class name? Maybe it was in some scene I first saw the ship in.
I was looking forward to buying the Cruiser version that dstahl posted.
But if they release a science vessel version, well, I guess that's one less sale from me.
Good luck to them making this ship fail to function very properly. We'll see how popular the nebula skin is, since that's the only selling point it'll have as a DSSV.
I'm not sure why it is, exactly, but I've always seen the Nebula class as a more scientific-oriented use of the Galaxy-class modular saucer and nacelle designs.
After all... already using that many pieces in common, if Federation just wanted another cruiser, why would they make Nebula class vessels and not simply more Galaxy classes? And the "Nebula" name lends itself to scientific/research pursuits.
Odd, it is a cruiser? I never read up on the nebula; I know not very trekkie crucify me later, I for some reason always just thought it was a science ship. Maybe it was something suggestive in the class name? Maybe it was in some scene I first saw the ship in.
The Intrepid's a cruiser too. Most starfleet ships, in terms of canon and the shows, are cruisers.
After all... already using that many pieces in common, if Federation just wanted another cruiser, why would they make Nebula class vessels and not simply more Galaxy classes?
Eh, same reason they made the Miranda. Same power in a more compact, and theoretically cheaper to build design.
They should just put in one Lt. slot of each type and one universal Commander slot. That way the ship can be whatever you want it to be. Frankly this should be done with all the C-Store cruiser buys instead of giving an edge to the Engineer role.
The Intrepid's a cruiser too. Most starfleet ships, in terms of canon and the shows, are cruisers.
The smaller crew, the speed, the agility, the lack of science facilities... I'm inclined to see the Intrepid as an escort. But yeah.. if I had to choose between cruiser or science vessel in game, I'd say cruiser. A very very light cruiser.
If you go by canon many things in this game are messed up. For instance the Excelsior class should have never been put in the c store, and should not have been given a top level spot as far as ships go. I probably would have stuck in with the galaxy class tire. The Intrepid is another oops, if you look at the voyager episodes. You notice how cramped the ship is, and how small it is compared to larger cruisers. One could easily place that ship in with escorts. Also this who "refit idea" is pretty much a joke in my opinion. The saucer separation should have been added to the current tire 3 galaxy. The cloaking device should have never been added to the Defiant, as the only reason it had it in the first place, was because the Romulans gave it to the federation. Also the fact that the second Defiant did not have a cloaking device. The galaxy x was really pushing it canon wise due to the fact, that ship was in a alternate timeline. As for the Nebula in all of the episodes ive seen in star trek, its been portrayed as a cruiser commonly used for patrolling the federation boarder. If you go by canon what sets the Nebula and Miranda apart from other cruisers, is the fact they both have 2 aft torpedo bays. Even the galaxy only has one. So yes the Nebula is strictly a cruiser, not a science vessel.
I think the devs are doing a good job, but i seriously wonder if they understand the canon of star trek. These refit ships in my opinion have gotten things pretty well jacked up as is. I love the Galaxy class i always will, but its based on older tech then the sovereign class starship. So canon wise the sovereign variants should be the best cruiser you can get in the federation. Instead thanks to this refit idea the Galaxy is the better ship due to more engineering slots, and the fact it has more crew then the sovereign. Even now this whole idea of the original star trek cruiser flying around just makes no sense. Now we got people asking for the Nx from enterprise. Going by canon like i said Nebula be a cruiser, but given whats going on it wouldn't surprise me if they slated it as a science.
Sadly the "we have too many cruisers" argument uses reasoning that is not logical, not canonical and really, just plain stupid.
Nebula's true definition is listed as Explorer. Which is also what the Enterprise - D is designated as. Explorer means what exactly though? And what exactly are the specs for a science vessel in terms of canon? To me, the Nebula is a Science Cruiser, and yes in the Dominion War they it was an offensive platform, but it is no Akira which has 15 torpedo tubes. Thus, I feel that the weapons platform was the mother of necessity by star fleet, but the true design was exploration.
Which brings us back to the question is exploration a science activity or a cruiser activity. You can put it in either. Now people have their favorite ship classes and cruiser already got 2 enterprise version. And balance should be considered in not just stats but game play options as well.
Thus the idea of "we have too many cruisers" doesnt really mean that devs cant make ships that are definite cruisers like the Ambassador Class, but ships where the definition isnt as clear, should go into a class type with the lower numbers.
Plus, science vessels are pretty nerfed right now, let the SV pilots get a nice moral boost.
They should just put in one Lt. slot of each type and one universal Commander slot. That way the ship can be whatever you want it to be. Frankly this should be done with all the C-Store cruiser buys instead of giving an edge to the Engineer role.
Given the inherent nature of LCARS, this should be pretty common.
Though I think some ships, like the Defiant, should clearly be combat-oriented.
I'd like to chime in here, having had the chance to play around with the Nebula class a bit.
As of this writing, the Nebula is a Science Vessel, with 3 hard points front and 3 back, and stacked with Science consoles. That may be subject to change, but I think it is a good fit.
Why? Because gameplay-wise, the Nebula is a solid support ship. The low-tier version has an impressive scan ability, and the high-tier is able to create a tachyon web amongst nearby ships, which increases stealth detection by a good margin. This is a very effective PVP vessel because it can smoke out cloaked enemies from a wider distance than standard sensor scan, and good timing can shut down a cloak rush before it happens.
This also makes it a high-priority target for teams that use cloak, because if you are able to knock out the Nebula before it uses its ability you are free to use battle cloak more effectively until the Nebula re-enters the fight.
And since the Nebula currently has a universal boff station, there is a large amount of flexibility available. Obviously not as much as a Bird-of-prey, but a skilled Nebula captain will undoubtedly be able to turn fights to his or her advantage by predicting rushes and adjusting accordingly.
And keep in mind that boffs can be traded out during PVP as long as the ship is out of combat, so the amount of flexibility on the Nebula is unparalleled on the Fed side.
I'll never believe the Intrepid is a science vessel. It was launched to capture Maquis in the Badlands--a combat mission, if anything. It was the fastest and one of the most agile ships in the fleet at the time of launch. It had bio-neural gelpacks to improve responsiveness. It was launched with seemingly no dedicated science personnel. It has few science labs, and only the Astrometric Lab is seen often and that wasn't part of the original design.
The one case you could make is that it was designed for long-range exploration but... without an astrometrics lab? That doesn't make any sense...
Meanwhile its speed, agility, and responsiveness all lend to it being a combat-oriented ship.
The Intrepid should be a frigate. It functioned as a frigate and it should be a frigate.
Hrm. How would a frigate differ from an "escort"? Aren't frigates usually the ships that... escort? =P
Usually short range, minimal stores, small crews, good mobility, decent weapons...
Nebula's true definition is listed as Explorer. Which is also what the Enterprise - D is designated as. Explorer means what exactly though? And what exactly are the specs for a science vessel in terms of canon?
There are no hard cannon answers to these, but based on how the terms are used by cannon and the performance characteristics of the ships referred to by these terms, we can infer that;
Explorer: large, powerful ship capable of extended duty far from a support system, this ship can travel great distances, deal with whatever it encounters along the way and do so without having to return to a base to refuel/resuppy. Essentially a very self sufficient ship, however, while generalizing a ship will tend to create the proverbial jack of all trades, master of none, the explorer is build large enough and with a large enough investment of resources to create a master of all trades...this is why they don't tend to stay put or hang out around starbases, such a large investment needs to be fully utilized by putting it on the big jobs.
Science ship: dedicated to research, this ship is intended to be attached to a forward starbase or outpost, it is the eye and ears of that base, usually a research base such as the relationship between the Regula 1 space station and the USS Reliant, in that Regula 1 needed information on planets, and USS Reliant was attached to the station to give their team the mobility they required. Science ships also sometimes trail explorers, when the explorer finds something of significant interest, they will flag it for follow up research by one of the dedicated science ships.
I'll never believe the Intrepid is a science vessel. It was launched to capture Maquis in the Badlands--a combat mission, if anything. It was the fastest and one of the most agile ships in the fleet at the time of launch. It had bio-neural gelpacks to improve responsiveness. It was launched with seemingly no dedicated science personnel. It has few science labs, and only the Astrometric Lab is seen often and that wasn't part of the original design.
The one case you could make is that it was designed for long-range exploration but... without an astrometrics lab? That doesn't make any sense...
Meanwhile its speed, agility, and responsiveness all lend to it being a combat-oriented ship.
A light cruiser, maybe. A science vessel? No way.
Actually it was sent into the badlands to investigate the disappearance of a Starfleet operative who happened to be part of the ship's crew (as designated by the Captain). The Intrepids were not designed for front line combat (but to be fair Starfleet rarely designs ships for that purpose), however Starfleet designs all of it's ships to be able to handle multiple situations as they are likely to be on their own during missions.
Captain Janeway's professional orientation aside; the fact that the Intrepids have an abundance of science labs, and a serious lacking of spare photon torpedoes (Voyager is quoted in Season 1 as having around 27 photon torpedoes to make due with) does not endear the ship as a combat craft.
Another blow to my faith in Cryptic's decision making skills. They seem to be bowing down to the majority thinking. Most of the time the majority of people are idiots though.
And it's not like I have any faith in their decision making skills anymore anyways. I gradually lost it and it's been completely gone for a small while now.
UGC is the last hope for this game. If that fails too...
I think part of the problem is that, in STO, Cryptic is attempting to pigeon hole these ships into 3 specific classes when in reality it isn't near as cut and dry. Example, not unlike the Intrepid, is the Akira which is a heavy cruiser that also functions as a carrier with a flight deck running stem to stern of the saucer section. Trying to call it an escort just doesn't seem to fit with cannon.
As of this writing, the Nebula is a Science Vessel, with 3 hard points front and 3 back, and stacked with Science consoles.
For those of us that play the game more than you do ... 6 weapon slots = subpar damage potential. Science consoles ... stack em as high as you want. They've been nerfed and defanged and do not give much return for the investment.
That's why this ship won't be very effective.
This is a very effective PVP vessel because it can smoke out cloaked enemies from a wider distance than standard sensor scan, and good timing can shut down a cloak rush before it happens.
As Fed vs. Fed PVP indicates, the cloak rush isn't exactly the heart and soul of PVP.
And the KDF was most likely going to have to adjust to non-cloak tactics anyways, as I don't recall Nausicaan, Gorn or Orion ships having cloaks.
In the long run, this ship doesn't seem to be worth the investment.
This also makes it a high-priority target for teams that use cloak,
As with most PVP, the high priority targets are the ones that die the fastest. That's usually escorts ... then science ships ... then cruisers.
free to use battle cloak more effectively
Uh. Battle Cloak are you sure you mean Battle Cloak?
but a skilled Nebula captain will undoubtedly be able to turn fights to his or her advantage by predicting rushes and adjusting accordingly.
I think you overvalue what Cloak does in the game.
But meh, what do I know. I only fly the ships. You folks design em and stuff!
This is a very effective PVP vessel because it can smoke out cloaked enemies from a wider distance than standard sensor scan, and good timing can shut down a cloak rush before it happens.
This also makes it a high-priority target for teams that use cloak, because if you are able to knock out the Nebula before it uses its ability you are free to use battle cloak more effectively until the Nebula re-enters the fight.
For balance purposes, I think the Klingons need a ship to counter this. The future Romulan faction will want something to deal with this as well. Romulns I can see having superior cloaks as their counter, but I have felt that the Klingons need some heavy weapons. I'm thinking the Klingons need equivalent ships to the Federations recent refits, like a Vor'cha with a heavy disruptor cannon, and a Negh'Var with a set of the big guns shown in Way of the Warrior. It is only far regardless, the feds got the Galaxy-X complete with the big cannon slung under the saucer.
Come to think of it, the Galaxy-X was supposed to be a reward for referrals right? Add a Negh'Var with a set of siege guns and make it the Klignon counterpart.
Another blow to my faith in Cryptic's decision making skills. They seem to be bowing down to the majority thinking. Most of the time the majority of people are idiots though.
And it's not like I have any faith in their decision making skills anymore anyways. I gradually lost it and it's been completely gone for a small while now.
UGC is the last hope for this game. If that fails too...
First off, the majority are who pays the bills. Second, I don't think anyone likes being called an idiot. Ultimately the nebula was a multi role craft. It could even been stated that cruiser/frigate/escort designations are archaic and necessary outside of tradition. That applies to modern ships as well. Overall, it would help if you look at the situation from a larger perspective instead of one of a narrow mind.
I think part of the problem is that, in STO, Cryptic is attempting to pigeon hole these ships into 3 specific classes when in reality it isn't near as cut and dry. Example, not unlike the Intrepid, is the Akira which is a heavy cruiser that also functions as a carrier with a flight deck running stem to stern of the saucer section. Trying to call it an escort just doesn't seem to fit with cannon.
Basically, like I said above, the role designations are for practical purposes pretty much archaic. Escorts used to be lightly armed and worked in groups while frigates were someone of a cross between the roles of a destroyer and an escort. The primary difference being in tonnage in the old nautical ways. None of which applies to Star Trek but as the shows progressed the multi function of all ships became more apparent and their individual roles became blurred.
I'd like to chime in here, having had the chance to play around with the Nebula class a bit.
As of this writing, the Nebula is a Science Vessel, with 3 hard points front and 3 back, and stacked with Science consoles. That may be subject to change, but I think it is a good fit.
Why? Because gameplay-wise, the Nebula is a solid support ship. The low-tier version has an impressive scan ability, and the high-tier is able to create a tachyon web amongst nearby ships, which increases stealth detection by a good margin. This is a very effective PVP vessel because it can smoke out cloaked enemies from a wider distance than standard sensor scan, and good timing can shut down a cloak rush before it happens.
This also makes it a high-priority target for teams that use cloak, because if you are able to knock out the Nebula before it uses its ability you are free to use battle cloak more effectively until the Nebula re-enters the fight.
And since the Nebula currently has a universal boff station, there is a large amount of flexibility available. Obviously not as much as a Bird-of-prey, but a skilled Nebula captain will undoubtedly be able to turn fights to his or her advantage by predicting rushes and adjusting accordingly.
And keep in mind that boffs can be traded out during PVP as long as the ship is out of combat, so the amount of flexibility on the Nebula is unparalleled on the Fed side.
Sounds good ... i'm looking forward to test it on tribble.
I don't know why people are always complaining . i have charaters of all three classes ... so i got a lot of new ships for my Ingeneer but i cannot fly them all at once ... so i'm happy to get a Science vessel this time for my science character .
I'd like to chime in here, having had the chance to play around with the Nebula class a bit.
As of this writing, the Nebula is a Science Vessel, with 3 hard points front and 3 back, and stacked with Science consoles. That may be subject to change, but I think it is a good fit.
Why? Because gameplay-wise, the Nebula is a solid support ship. The low-tier version has an impressive scan ability, and the high-tier is able to create a tachyon web amongst nearby ships, which increases stealth detection by a good margin. This is a very effective PVP vessel because it can smoke out cloaked enemies from a wider distance than standard sensor scan, and good timing can shut down a cloak rush before it happens.
This also makes it a high-priority target for teams that use cloak, because if you are able to knock out the Nebula before it uses its ability you are free to use battle cloak more effectively until the Nebula re-enters the fight.
And since the Nebula currently has a universal boff station, there is a large amount of flexibility available. Obviously not as much as a Bird-of-prey, but a skilled Nebula captain will undoubtedly be able to turn fights to his or her advantage by predicting rushes and adjusting accordingly.
And keep in mind that boffs can be traded out during PVP as long as the ship is out of combat, so the amount of flexibility on the Nebula is unparalleled on the Fed side.
Psst... You want to adjust the ship balance and make crafting relevant?
Make it so that high end crafting allows you to create consoles with bonuses that don't match their type (they could have lower stats and be unique equip or prone to interesting failures)... and maybe even allow you to change the class of a ship.
I mean, that's basically what Star Trek "crafters" like Scotty, McCoy, O'Brien, etc. always seemed to do. They took resources and rigged them to meet their needs, AGAINST their design objective.
Seems to me a true Miracle Worker could find a way to create a Weapons Console that acts like an EPS Conduit and a truly gifted crafter could eventually, at great expense, modify a ship so heavily that it changes class designation.
I suspect this does create issues for visual recognition in PvP but no worse than Holoemitters do and you could make the expense and effort truly epic, requiring work in every field and gameplay style with parts that require emblems, parts that require latinum, parts that require PvP, etc. All to basically allow you to trade a ship of one class for a visually identical ship of your preferred class.
For those of us that play the game more than you do ... 6 weapon slots = subpar damage potential. Science consoles ... stack em as high as you want. They've been nerfed and defanged and do not give much return for the investment.
That's why this ship won't be very effective.
As Fed vs. Fed PVP indicates, the cloak rush isn't exactly the heart and soul of PVP.
And the KDF was most likely going to have to adjust to non-cloak tactics anyways, as I don't recall Nausicaan, Gorn or Orion ships having cloaks.
In the long run, this ship doesn't seem to be worth the investment.
As with most PVP, the high priority targets are the ones that die the fastest. That's usually escorts ... then science ships ... then cruisers.
Uh. Battle Cloak are you sure you mean Battle Cloak?
I think you overvalue what Cloak does in the game.
But meh, what do I know. I only fly the ships. You folks design em and stuff!
/sigh
I disagree somewhat with what you are saying here. 6 weapons slots configured correctly with the appropriate power can do some decent DPS, perhaps not to Tac/Escort level but definitely significant enough not to be dismissed. A 6 beam cruiser against a 6 beam sci is quite comparable especially given that the differing turning rates, power, Boff abilities and classes are all considered.
Concerning the Gorn etc, I wouldn't doubt that now they are part of the Empire they are given cloaks.
Given that teamwork, coordination, BO powers, load outs etc vary from match to match and from team to team the nebula as a sci ship could very well work. While I think it may not work for some, I am sure it will work for others. Kind of like the effects of a sci escort. Some people can use them very well and some can't.
For me I think the debate is more centered around the fact that people want the defense of a cruiser and hence they keep pushing for cruiser ships. While I agree, that Star Trek was for the most part centered around "cruiser" ships, I submit that those roles are now outdated.
For me I think the debate is more centered around the fact that people want the defense of a cruiser and hence they keep pushing for cruiser ships. While I agree, that Star Trek was for the most part centered around "cruiser" ships, I submit that those roles are now outdated.
I dunno, I have quite a lot of fun with my 'HAHA it took you 10 minutes or more with two of you to kill me, and you had to add a 3rd to finally finish me off. and while you were wasting your time doing that the rest of my team had a free hand' *takes a breath* star cruiser.
I mean, that's basically what Star Trek "crafters" like Scotty, McCoy, O'Brien, etc. always seemed to do. They took resources and rigged them to meet their needs, AGAINST their design objective.
Seems to me a true Miracle Worker could find a way to create a Weapons Console that acts like an EPS Conduit and a truly gifted crafter could eventually, at great expense, modify a ship so heavily that it changes class designation.
Like maybe scavenging a weapon console to add a + weapon power stat to an engineering console, or vice versa. I like it, Cryptic; make it so.
I dunno, I have quite a lot of fun with my 'HAHA it took you 10 minutes or more with two of you to kill me, and you had to add a 3rd to finally finish me off. and while you were wasting your time doing that the rest of my team had a free hand' *takes a breath* star cruiser.
I have been on both sides of that... both the elation and the WTF? moments
Comments
But if they release a science vessel version, well, I guess that's one less sale from me.
Good luck to them making this ship fail to function very properly. We'll see how popular the nebula skin is, since that's the only selling point it'll have as a DSSV.
After all... already using that many pieces in common, if Federation just wanted another cruiser, why would they make Nebula class vessels and not simply more Galaxy classes? And the "Nebula" name lends itself to scientific/research pursuits.
The Intrepid's a cruiser too. Most starfleet ships, in terms of canon and the shows, are cruisers.
Eh, same reason they made the Miranda. Same power in a more compact, and theoretically cheaper to build design.
The smaller crew, the speed, the agility, the lack of science facilities... I'm inclined to see the Intrepid as an escort. But yeah.. if I had to choose between cruiser or science vessel in game, I'd say cruiser. A very very light cruiser.
I think the devs are doing a good job, but i seriously wonder if they understand the canon of star trek. These refit ships in my opinion have gotten things pretty well jacked up as is. I love the Galaxy class i always will, but its based on older tech then the sovereign class starship. So canon wise the sovereign variants should be the best cruiser you can get in the federation. Instead thanks to this refit idea the Galaxy is the better ship due to more engineering slots, and the fact it has more crew then the sovereign. Even now this whole idea of the original star trek cruiser flying around just makes no sense. Now we got people asking for the Nx from enterprise. Going by canon like i said Nebula be a cruiser, but given whats going on it wouldn't surprise me if they slated it as a science.
Nebula's true definition is listed as Explorer. Which is also what the Enterprise - D is designated as. Explorer means what exactly though? And what exactly are the specs for a science vessel in terms of canon? To me, the Nebula is a Science Cruiser, and yes in the Dominion War they it was an offensive platform, but it is no Akira which has 15 torpedo tubes. Thus, I feel that the weapons platform was the mother of necessity by star fleet, but the true design was exploration.
Which brings us back to the question is exploration a science activity or a cruiser activity. You can put it in either. Now people have their favorite ship classes and cruiser already got 2 enterprise version. And balance should be considered in not just stats but game play options as well.
Thus the idea of "we have too many cruisers" doesnt really mean that devs cant make ships that are definite cruisers like the Ambassador Class, but ships where the definition isnt as clear, should go into a class type with the lower numbers.
Plus, science vessels are pretty nerfed right now, let the SV pilots get a nice moral boost.
Given the inherent nature of LCARS, this should be pretty common.
Though I think some ships, like the Defiant, should clearly be combat-oriented.
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Light_cruiser
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Science_vessel
As of this writing, the Nebula is a Science Vessel, with 3 hard points front and 3 back, and stacked with Science consoles. That may be subject to change, but I think it is a good fit.
Why? Because gameplay-wise, the Nebula is a solid support ship. The low-tier version has an impressive scan ability, and the high-tier is able to create a tachyon web amongst nearby ships, which increases stealth detection by a good margin. This is a very effective PVP vessel because it can smoke out cloaked enemies from a wider distance than standard sensor scan, and good timing can shut down a cloak rush before it happens.
This also makes it a high-priority target for teams that use cloak, because if you are able to knock out the Nebula before it uses its ability you are free to use battle cloak more effectively until the Nebula re-enters the fight.
And since the Nebula currently has a universal boff station, there is a large amount of flexibility available. Obviously not as much as a Bird-of-prey, but a skilled Nebula captain will undoubtedly be able to turn fights to his or her advantage by predicting rushes and adjusting accordingly.
And keep in mind that boffs can be traded out during PVP as long as the ship is out of combat, so the amount of flexibility on the Nebula is unparalleled on the Fed side.
I'll never believe the Intrepid is a science vessel. It was launched to capture Maquis in the Badlands--a combat mission, if anything. It was the fastest and one of the most agile ships in the fleet at the time of launch. It had bio-neural gelpacks to improve responsiveness. It was launched with seemingly no dedicated science personnel. It has few science labs, and only the Astrometric Lab is seen often and that wasn't part of the original design.
The one case you could make is that it was designed for long-range exploration but... without an astrometrics lab? That doesn't make any sense...
Meanwhile its speed, agility, and responsiveness all lend to it being a combat-oriented ship.
A light cruiser, maybe. A science vessel? No way.
Hrm. How would a frigate differ from an "escort"? Aren't frigates usually the ships that... escort? =P
Usually short range, minimal stores, small crews, good mobility, decent weapons...
Kind of an interesting set up
Jo
There are no hard cannon answers to these, but based on how the terms are used by cannon and the performance characteristics of the ships referred to by these terms, we can infer that;
Explorer: large, powerful ship capable of extended duty far from a support system, this ship can travel great distances, deal with whatever it encounters along the way and do so without having to return to a base to refuel/resuppy. Essentially a very self sufficient ship, however, while generalizing a ship will tend to create the proverbial jack of all trades, master of none, the explorer is build large enough and with a large enough investment of resources to create a master of all trades...this is why they don't tend to stay put or hang out around starbases, such a large investment needs to be fully utilized by putting it on the big jobs.
Science ship: dedicated to research, this ship is intended to be attached to a forward starbase or outpost, it is the eye and ears of that base, usually a research base such as the relationship between the Regula 1 space station and the USS Reliant, in that Regula 1 needed information on planets, and USS Reliant was attached to the station to give their team the mobility they required. Science ships also sometimes trail explorers, when the explorer finds something of significant interest, they will flag it for follow up research by one of the dedicated science ships.
Actually it was sent into the badlands to investigate the disappearance of a Starfleet operative who happened to be part of the ship's crew (as designated by the Captain). The Intrepids were not designed for front line combat (but to be fair Starfleet rarely designs ships for that purpose), however Starfleet designs all of it's ships to be able to handle multiple situations as they are likely to be on their own during missions.
Captain Janeway's professional orientation aside; the fact that the Intrepids have an abundance of science labs, and a serious lacking of spare photon torpedoes (Voyager is quoted in Season 1 as having around 27 photon torpedoes to make due with) does not endear the ship as a combat craft.
And it's not like I have any faith in their decision making skills anymore anyways. I gradually lost it and it's been completely gone for a small while now.
UGC is the last hope for this game. If that fails too...
For those of us that play the game more than you do ... 6 weapon slots = subpar damage potential. Science consoles ... stack em as high as you want. They've been nerfed and defanged and do not give much return for the investment.
That's why this ship won't be very effective.
As Fed vs. Fed PVP indicates, the cloak rush isn't exactly the heart and soul of PVP.
And the KDF was most likely going to have to adjust to non-cloak tactics anyways, as I don't recall Nausicaan, Gorn or Orion ships having cloaks.
In the long run, this ship doesn't seem to be worth the investment.
As with most PVP, the high priority targets are the ones that die the fastest. That's usually escorts ... then science ships ... then cruisers.
Uh. Battle Cloak are you sure you mean Battle Cloak?
I think you overvalue what Cloak does in the game.
But meh, what do I know. I only fly the ships. You folks design em and stuff!
/sigh
For balance purposes, I think the Klingons need a ship to counter this. The future Romulan faction will want something to deal with this as well. Romulns I can see having superior cloaks as their counter, but I have felt that the Klingons need some heavy weapons. I'm thinking the Klingons need equivalent ships to the Federations recent refits, like a Vor'cha with a heavy disruptor cannon, and a Negh'Var with a set of the big guns shown in Way of the Warrior. It is only far regardless, the feds got the Galaxy-X complete with the big cannon slung under the saucer.
Come to think of it, the Galaxy-X was supposed to be a reward for referrals right? Add a Negh'Var with a set of siege guns and make it the Klignon counterpart.
First off, the majority are who pays the bills. Second, I don't think anyone likes being called an idiot. Ultimately the nebula was a multi role craft. It could even been stated that cruiser/frigate/escort designations are archaic and necessary outside of tradition. That applies to modern ships as well. Overall, it would help if you look at the situation from a larger perspective instead of one of a narrow mind.
Basically, like I said above, the role designations are for practical purposes pretty much archaic. Escorts used to be lightly armed and worked in groups while frigates were someone of a cross between the roles of a destroyer and an escort. The primary difference being in tonnage in the old nautical ways. None of which applies to Star Trek but as the shows progressed the multi function of all ships became more apparent and their individual roles became blurred.
Sounds good ... i'm looking forward to test it on tribble.
I don't know why people are always complaining
Psst... You want to adjust the ship balance and make crafting relevant?
Make it so that high end crafting allows you to create consoles with bonuses that don't match their type (they could have lower stats and be unique equip or prone to interesting failures)... and maybe even allow you to change the class of a ship.
I mean, that's basically what Star Trek "crafters" like Scotty, McCoy, O'Brien, etc. always seemed to do. They took resources and rigged them to meet their needs, AGAINST their design objective.
Seems to me a true Miracle Worker could find a way to create a Weapons Console that acts like an EPS Conduit and a truly gifted crafter could eventually, at great expense, modify a ship so heavily that it changes class designation.
I suspect this does create issues for visual recognition in PvP but no worse than Holoemitters do and you could make the expense and effort truly epic, requiring work in every field and gameplay style with parts that require emblems, parts that require latinum, parts that require PvP, etc. All to basically allow you to trade a ship of one class for a visually identical ship of your preferred class.
I disagree somewhat with what you are saying here. 6 weapons slots configured correctly with the appropriate power can do some decent DPS, perhaps not to Tac/Escort level but definitely significant enough not to be dismissed. A 6 beam cruiser against a 6 beam sci is quite comparable especially given that the differing turning rates, power, Boff abilities and classes are all considered.
Concerning the Gorn etc, I wouldn't doubt that now they are part of the Empire they are given cloaks.
Given that teamwork, coordination, BO powers, load outs etc vary from match to match and from team to team the nebula as a sci ship could very well work. While I think it may not work for some, I am sure it will work for others. Kind of like the effects of a sci escort. Some people can use them very well and some can't.
For me I think the debate is more centered around the fact that people want the defense of a cruiser and hence they keep pushing for cruiser ships. While I agree, that Star Trek was for the most part centered around "cruiser" ships, I submit that those roles are now outdated.
I dunno, I have quite a lot of fun with my 'HAHA it took you 10 minutes or more with two of you to kill me, and you had to add a 3rd to finally finish me off. and while you were wasting your time doing that the rest of my team had a free hand' *takes a breath* star cruiser.
Like maybe scavenging a weapon console to add a + weapon power stat to an engineering console, or vice versa. I like it, Cryptic; make it so.
I have been on both sides of that... both the elation and the WTF? moments