Its not the one slot the nebula has that Happy was commenting on, it was someone elses proposal that all refits should have full universal slots.
Indeed this.
Though I do expect some of the more... shall we say vehement?... klingons to have issue with one Lt universal slot I wouldn't. Though more than that, either in number or position, and it starts to become an issue. The Bird-of-Prey gives up a LOT for it's versatility, I know because in addition to my VA Assault Cruiser flying main I have a Lt.Gen in a Hegh'ta Bird-of-Prey.
I'm not adverse to there being a Federation ship with Bird-of-Prey-style versatility (I'm not one of those "Mine! Mine! Mine!" people), so long as it also comes with Bird-of-Prey-style vulnerability.
Both the StarCruiser and DSSV variant are great.
Don´t make us choose one but give us both!
The DSSV gets the AVACS/sensor disc instead and keeps the special power. You´d have to model a new disc module though. Similar to the Phoenix class, but spruce it up a bit with one of your trademark secondary deflectors in it.
The Cruiser version is your current one but without the special power and the normal cruiser 4 device slots. The Star Cruiser specs DStahl mentioned would be great for it.
Though you could add a special power to it.
Maybe some type of torpedo barrage or special torpedo shot that disables cloaking for quite a while (like in the show).
I'm against making it a science vessel entirely because science vessels are so ridiculously gimp it'd completely ruin the ship's usefulness.
Instead, give it an intermediate level of hull and shields and make the LCDR and CMDR slots universal so any class can use it. This ship is supposed to be a workhorse that can do anything. Make it so.
I like the idea of having a Science Ship. The Nebula Class ship was, by nature, a scientific ship, unlike the Excelsior and Galaxy (which are cruisers). It seems to me that the cruisers have been played out, with the Galaxy-X, now the Excelsior. What we need is more science ships, and then maybe some tactical ships.
Vice Admiral Roslin
USS Colonial One
You can't possibly be referring to anything in-game here concerning the Nebula-class, because the only version of it in-game is listed as a cruiser, so I must assume you were indeed talking about the films and series. Unless you care to explain what "by nature" meant since nothing currently comes to mind.
Interesting that we're getting a variant based off of the Galaxy retrofit variant. I would've thought, much like the Excelsior we'd get the two versions of Nebula-class seen in the series:
This is the version that CapnLogan used. Doug Drexler mentioned it was based solely off of the Galaxy-class CGI model and not the original Nebula-class model.
The differences are the shape and size of the secondary hull, the thickness of the saucer section rim/edge, the height of the bridge structure.
i always liked the ds9 versions deflector.. its bigger, and has the galaxy flavor, but with a style change... the edges arch downward, which i think makes it look reallycool
The more I look at the initially suggested Sci build...
Weapons:
3 Fore
3 Aft
Boff seats (4 Boffs, 11 Powers):
1 Lt Tact
1 LC Eng
1 Cm Science
1 Lt Universal
Mods:
3 Eng
4 Sci
2 Tact
3 Device Slots
750 Crew
Unique Ability:
Tachyon Detection Grid: PBAoE buff that increases your, and allies w/in 10k, Starship Sensor Stat and Cloak Detection. Each buffed ally in turn will buff more allies within 10k of them - thus extending the grid.
Turn Rate = Galaxy
Any other stats not mentioned are the same as a DeepSpace Science Vessel.
...The more I tend to think it works fairly well as-is. It loses some turning ability, and one standard power, for much greater versatility in powers, a special ability, (broken up Com/LtC slots and a universal Lt slot) and half again the number of crew a DSSV has.
That seems like a decent trade-off, and the LtC which is switched out is for Engineering, which with a Hull Repair/Shield Buff ability will help mitigate people being able to sit on specific shield facings due to reduced manoeuvrability.
Then it is a cruiser, since the only evidence of the Nebula-class in-game currently are the "cruisers" flying around in missions and the Sol system.
Here's what you said:
You can't possibly be referring to anything in-game here concerning the Nebula-class, because the only version of it in-game is listed as a cruiser, so I must assume you were indeed talking about the films and series. Unless you care to explain what "by nature" meant since nothing currently comes to mind.
The dev himself (captain gekko?) said it could go either way
So I've been doing a little research, and going over the numbers, the nebula class should have a marked improvement in maneuverability over the galaxy. The nebula is over a million metric tons lighter than the galaxy, in fact it's even a little bit lighter than the sovereign. Here's the data:
Nebula Mass = 3,309,000 metric tons
Galaxy Mass = 4,500,000 metric tons
Sovereign Mass = 3,500,000 metric tons
So it should be a tad more agile than the Sovereign.
So I've been doing a little research, and going over the numbers, the nebula class should have a marked improvement in maneuverability over the galaxy. The nebula is over a million metric tons lighter than the galaxy, in fact it's even a little bit lighter than the sovereign. Here's the data:
Nebula Mass = 3,309,000 metric tons
Galaxy Mass = 4,500,000 metric tons
Sovereign Mass = 3,500,000 metric tons
So it should be a tad more agile than the Sovereign.
Only if it has the same amount of power going to its thrusters or engines or whatever.
Except the statement made was about what is/was and not what might be:
This is factually untrue based on the series and the current game.
You know what, tired of hearing that...
There are no ship classes in this game that translate to the series. If they were, the Intrepid will be an escort. Remember, she was a small, fast response frigate... after all, as far as canon is concerned, she is equally as heavily armed as a Galaxy.
So I've been doing a little research, and going over the numbers, the nebula class should have a marked improvement in maneuverability over the galaxy. The nebula is over a million metric tons lighter than the galaxy, in fact it's even a little bit lighter than the sovereign. Here's the data:
Nebula Mass = 3,309,000 metric tons
Galaxy Mass = 4,500,000 metric tons
Sovereign Mass = 3,500,000 metric tons
So it should be a tad more agile than the Sovereign.
This assumes a one-to-one relationship between manoeuvrability and mass. That's a big assumption, and would have the Akira Class much less manoeuvrable than many Cruisers. In fact, this would suggest that manoeuvrability in generally should, across most classes, completely nosedive as we advance in tiers, ending with an almost universal decrease in the turn rate of most the ships.
I mean the Nova is damn tiny and it turns worse than the Research Science Vessel, Long Range Science Vessel, and the Reconnaissance Science Vessel. If mass is all important than we need to downgrade every Science Vessel past T2 with the exception of the DSSV to reflect that they are much larger than the Nova Class in Tier 2.
You can't possibly be referring to anything in-game here concerning the Nebula-class, because the only version of it in-game is listed as a cruiser, so I must assume you were indeed talking about the films and series. Unless you care to explain what "by nature" meant since nothing currently comes to mind.
It probably was an slight error on my part. In the game, all of the ships have "mission pods" and in the series, the Nebula Class has a "Mission Pod" so I assumed that a mission pod implied scientific. Thus, I apologize for the wrong word choice.
It's size and shape first of all. Second of all, most of the science abilities require that the ship be facing it's opponents. Having a turn rate of a galaxy will make flying this ship an exercise in frustration if it's a Science Vessel. Making the Nebula an alternative heal boat will be great for those that prefer to have a more "traditional" look while playing a support ship. Seriously, all the cruisers have been damage centric ships except the Star Cruiser. Another support ship would be a welcome change.
I would suggest making the Tac officer an ensign and bumping the base science up a level. That makes it more of a support ship with actual variety in powers. Then the universal slot let's everyone specialize even farther and represents the mission pod. In all the shows the Nebula was a cruiser with a science bent and this would support that idea.
I really want this, but please allow for purchase using 500 emblems/1 Ship Plaque method like the Retrofits.
Why not the C-Store? It really would cause a lot of trouble and flames forum posts if they didnt put it in the C-Store. 500 Emblems is ludicrous. And most players have spent their plaque already.
That estimate for the metric tons for the Nebula is hugely off.
The Nebula is basically a Galaxy. It's got the same saucer, similar hull, PLUS the pod. It's technically MORE massive. I don't know where you got your info but it's wrong as to what THIS Nebula is. There was a Nebula or two that was deformed and sized tiny but those are usually ignored (much like how the Defiant changes size).
THIS IS ALL SUBJECT TO CHANGE!!! (unless you forgot what happened with the Excelsior) but better to start talking about it now than weeks from now.
Also keep in mind this ship has been in development for some time (pre-dates the new KDF ships being worked on)
Ok... here it is
Nebula
A StarCruiser variant (Its not a Retrofit. It utilizes the StarCruiser Skill).
Requires:
Rear Admiral
Weapons:
4 Fore
4 Aft
Boff seats (4 Boffs, 11 Powers):
1 Lt Tact
1 Cm Eng
1 LC Science
1 Lt Universal
Mods:
4 Eng
3 Sci
2 Tact
3 Device Slots
750 Crew
Unique Ability:
Tachyon Detection Grid: PBAoE buff that increases your, and allies w/in 10k, Starship Sensor Stat and Cloak Detection. Each buffed ally in turn will buff more allies within 10k of them - thus extending the grid.
Turn Rate = Galaxy
Any other stats not mentioned are the same as a Star Cruiser.
Screenshots attached - the second is one of the mission pod swap out configuration options
No need to change a thing. That I'd pay 15 bucks for. It looks good, it's set up good and it's got me excited.
It probably was an slight error on my part. In the game, all of the ships have "mission pods" and in the series, the Nebula Class has a "Mission Pod" so I assumed that a mission pod implied scientific. Thus, I apologize for the wrong word choice.
Fair enough, though the mission pod on the Nebula-class has been seen firing photon torpedoes, maybe it should be an escort instead
So I've been doing a little research, and going over the numbers, the nebula class should have a marked improvement in maneuverability over the galaxy. The nebula is over a million metric tons lighter than the galaxy, in fact it's even a little bit lighter than the sovereign. Here's the data:
Nebula Mass = 3,309,000 metric tons
Galaxy Mass = 4,500,000 metric tons
Sovereign Mass = 3,500,000 metric tons
So it should be a tad more agile than the Sovereign.
Here is a thought for the Nebula, to take full advantage of it's known modular nature. Instead of having 'one' Nebula, have three, broken down as follows.
Nebula Cruiser, with an engineering pod fit, strengthened SIF and additional crew quarters, designed for fleet operational support during forward deployments.
Assault Nebula - classified as an escort, the Tactical pod contains additional impulse drivers for enhanced manueverability while permitting the fitting of cannon weapons on the forward edge. Intended to be a true 'heavy' Fleet Escort, supporting other ships while dealing out punishing damage.
Recon Nebula - fitted with the sophisticates SWACS pod, the recon variant Nebula boasts massively improved sensors combined with additional shield generators to protect the sophisticated electronics. Intended to serve as the 'eyes' of the fleet, remaining with the main line while sophisticated sensors probe out to wrinkle out hidden threats, these ships serve admirably as heavy Deep Space Reconnaisance Vessels.
In short, think a bit outside the box, you can use very similar models and get three useful ships out of them instead of just one, and spread the 'love' around to science and escort captains.
We could consider making it a Science Vessel. A Deep Space Science Vessel was the second choice. Doing so would swap the BOff and Mod slots. Also, its weapon slots would need to be reduced, and it would gain Subsystem Targeting. Finally it would have DeepSpace Science Vessel hull and Shield HP. So it would be something like:
Please don't do this. Changing it to science obviously has some support here, but it'll make the ship weaker. Especially if it ends up as DSSV.
The Cruiser idea makes it a nice, smooth, powerful ship worth using.
The DSSV idea makes it lack punch, and defense, and turn rate and basically makes it less of what it can really be.
It'll soar as a cruiser. It'll putter along as a science vessel.
Weight kind of matters. It matters through mass. :P
The more massive something is the more energy it'll take to move it. Sure, in space it won't stop moving until it hits something and stuff but if you wanted to reverse you'd need to use a lot more energy to make a full reverse on a massive object like the USS Enterprise compared to the amount of energy you'd need to make a full reverse in a shuttle.
Turn Rate = Galaxy
Any other stats not mentioned are the same as a DeepSpace Science Vessel.
I think Cruisers have had more than enough love already, especially with the Excelsior.
Science Captains need some love too but that Galaxy turn rate makes it rather crappy. A hate cruiser turn rates as it is and I don't want to turn like a brick on my science character.
Unique Ability: Tachyon Detection Grid: PBAoE buff that increases your, and allies w/in 10k, Starship Sensor Stat and Cloak Detection. Each buffed ally in turn will buff more allies within 10k of them - thus extending the grid.
Ok, the pic that CaptainGeko posted of what I assume is this ship using the detection grid is just awesome!
I too vote for Sci Ship (too many cruisers in game and it's unique ability is very Science-ee), or have both versions the Sci and Cruiser (w/perhaps an alternate ability)... And then why not a Tac version?
There are no ship classes in this game that translate to the series. If they were, the Intrepid will be an escort. Remember, she was a small, fast response frigate... after all, as far as canon is concerned, she is equally as heavily armed as a Galaxy.
Not quite sure where you got that they're a frigate from, Rick Sternbach designed her as an explorer vessel. Though the only reference to the ship in the series was: "Voyager may not be as big as a Galaxy class ship but she's quick and smart, like her Captain." (VOY: "Scientific Method", "Relativity").
It was a tough call whether to make this a Science Vessel or a Cruiser. The IP supports either. In the end we decided to make it a cruiser because it is so big and especially b/c it has so much in common with the Galaxy. So we decided to make it StarCruiser.
We could consider making it a Science Vessel. A Deep Space Science Vessel was the second choice. Doing so would swap the BOff and Mod slots. Also, its weapon slots would need to be reduced, and it would gain Subsystem Targeting. Finally it would have DeepSpace Science Vessel hull and Shield HP. So it would be something like:
Nebula
A DeepSpace Science Vessel variant (Its not a Retrofit. It utilizes the DeepSpace Science Vessel Skill).
Requires:
Rear Admiral
Weapons:
3 Fore
3 Aft
Boff seats (4 Boffs, 11 Powers):
1 Lt Tact
1 LC Eng
1 Cm Science
1 Lt Universal
Mods:
3 Eng
4 Sci
2 Tact
3 Device Slots
750 Crew
Unique Ability:
Tachyon Detection Grid: PBAoE buff that increases your, and allies w/in 10k, Starship Sensor Stat and Cloak Detection. Each buffed ally in turn will buff more allies within 10k of them - thus extending the grid.
Turn Rate = Galaxy
Any other stats not mentioned are the same as a DeepSpace Science Vessel.
I love this idea much better, I realize the pods make the Nebula a more multi-role but I've always seen it as a science type vessel. The other T5 sci-vessles have pods so it kind of fits. Plus, I can't remember the episode name, but I first saw this ship being used to attempt to reignite a star. It was captained by a Dr. and just reeked of science.
Like others have stated, there's been plenty of cruiser lovin, spread it around to the other classes and let them have their ships too. (escort next and please don't forget Klingon equivalents! They need a ton of lovin too!)
Oh, and I hope that turn rate was a typo for the science version... Galaxy turn rate hurts way too much with the loss of extra weapon slots and hull. I like my DSSV but if it's turn rate got any lower I'd cry.
Not quite sure where you got that she's a frigate from, Rick Sternbach designed her as an explorer vessel. Though the only reference to the ship in the series was: "Voyager may not be as big as a Galaxy class ship but she's quick and smart, like her Captain." (VOY: "Scientific Method", "Relativity").
Very first episode, she is talked about in the same vein as the defiant, a new wave of ships designed to pack a punch. The Prometheus class is actually an evolution of the Intrepid design.
Comments
Indeed this.
Though I do expect some of the more... shall we say vehement?... klingons to have issue with one Lt universal slot I wouldn't. Though more than that, either in number or position, and it starts to become an issue. The Bird-of-Prey gives up a LOT for it's versatility, I know because in addition to my VA Assault Cruiser flying main I have a Lt.Gen in a Hegh'ta Bird-of-Prey.
I'm not adverse to there being a Federation ship with Bird-of-Prey-style versatility (I'm not one of those "Mine! Mine! Mine!" people), so long as it also comes with Bird-of-Prey-style vulnerability.
Don´t make us choose one but give us both!
The DSSV gets the AVACS/sensor disc instead and keeps the special power. You´d have to model a new disc module though. Similar to the Phoenix class, but spruce it up a bit with one of your trademark secondary deflectors in it.
The Cruiser version is your current one but without the special power and the normal cruiser 4 device slots. The Star Cruiser specs DStahl mentioned would be great for it.
Though you could add a special power to it.
Maybe some type of torpedo barrage or special torpedo shot that disables cloaking for quite a while (like in the show).
Instead, give it an intermediate level of hull and shields and make the LCDR and CMDR slots universal so any class can use it. This ship is supposed to be a workhorse that can do anything. Make it so.
Then it is a cruiser, since the only evidence of the Nebula-class in-game currently are the "cruisers" flying around in missions and the Sol system.
Here's what you said:
You can't possibly be referring to anything in-game here concerning the Nebula-class, because the only version of it in-game is listed as a cruiser, so I must assume you were indeed talking about the films and series. Unless you care to explain what "by nature" meant since nothing currently comes to mind.
i always liked the ds9 versions deflector.. its bigger, and has the galaxy flavor, but with a style change... the edges arch downward, which i think makes it look reallycool
Weapons:
3 Fore
3 Aft
Boff seats (4 Boffs, 11 Powers):
1 Lt Tact
1 LC Eng
1 Cm Science
1 Lt Universal
Mods:
3 Eng
4 Sci
2 Tact
3 Device Slots
750 Crew
Unique Ability:
Tachyon Detection Grid: PBAoE buff that increases your, and allies w/in 10k, Starship Sensor Stat and Cloak Detection. Each buffed ally in turn will buff more allies within 10k of them - thus extending the grid.
Turn Rate = Galaxy
Any other stats not mentioned are the same as a DeepSpace Science Vessel.
...The more I tend to think it works fairly well as-is. It loses some turning ability, and one standard power, for much greater versatility in powers, a special ability, (broken up Com/LtC slots and a universal Lt slot) and half again the number of crew a DSSV has.
That seems like a decent trade-off, and the LtC which is switched out is for Engineering, which with a Hull Repair/Shield Buff ability will help mitigate people being able to sit on specific shield facings due to reduced manoeuvrability.
The dev himself (captain gekko?) said it could go either way
So I've been doing a little research, and going over the numbers, the nebula class should have a marked improvement in maneuverability over the galaxy. The nebula is over a million metric tons lighter than the galaxy, in fact it's even a little bit lighter than the sovereign. Here's the data:
Nebula Mass = 3,309,000 metric tons
Galaxy Mass = 4,500,000 metric tons
Sovereign Mass = 3,500,000 metric tons
So it should be a tad more agile than the Sovereign.
Never noticed this before... but seriously your computer boots up? You system was dated 3 years ago... just thought you should know that...
Except the statement made was about what is/was and not what might be:
This is factually untrue based on the series and the current game.
Only if it has the same amount of power going to its thrusters or engines or whatever.
Just sayin'.
You know what, tired of hearing that...
There are no ship classes in this game that translate to the series. If they were, the Intrepid will be an escort. Remember, she was a small, fast response frigate... after all, as far as canon is concerned, she is equally as heavily armed as a Galaxy.
This assumes a one-to-one relationship between manoeuvrability and mass. That's a big assumption, and would have the Akira Class much less manoeuvrable than many Cruisers. In fact, this would suggest that manoeuvrability in generally should, across most classes, completely nosedive as we advance in tiers, ending with an almost universal decrease in the turn rate of most the ships.
I mean the Nova is damn tiny and it turns worse than the Research Science Vessel, Long Range Science Vessel, and the Reconnaissance Science Vessel. If mass is all important than we need to downgrade every Science Vessel past T2 with the exception of the DSSV to reflect that they are much larger than the Nova Class in Tier 2.
It probably was an slight error on my part. In the game, all of the ships have "mission pods" and in the series, the Nebula Class has a "Mission Pod" so I assumed that a mission pod implied scientific. Thus, I apologize for the wrong word choice.
It's size and shape first of all. Second of all, most of the science abilities require that the ship be facing it's opponents. Having a turn rate of a galaxy will make flying this ship an exercise in frustration if it's a Science Vessel. Making the Nebula an alternative heal boat will be great for those that prefer to have a more "traditional" look while playing a support ship. Seriously, all the cruisers have been damage centric ships except the Star Cruiser. Another support ship would be a welcome change.
I would suggest making the Tac officer an ensign and bumping the base science up a level. That makes it more of a support ship with actual variety in powers. Then the universal slot let's everyone specialize even farther and represents the mission pod. In all the shows the Nebula was a cruiser with a science bent and this would support that idea.
Nyxus
Why not the C-Store? It really would cause a lot of trouble and flames forum posts if they didnt put it in the C-Store. 500 Emblems is ludicrous. And most players have spent their plaque already.
The Nebula is basically a Galaxy. It's got the same saucer, similar hull, PLUS the pod. It's technically MORE massive. I don't know where you got your info but it's wrong as to what THIS Nebula is. There was a Nebula or two that was deformed and sized tiny but those are usually ignored (much like how the Defiant changes size).
No need to change a thing. That I'd pay 15 bucks for. It looks good, it's set up good and it's got me excited.
Fair enough, though the mission pod on the Nebula-class has been seen firing photon torpedoes, maybe it should be an escort instead
umm its in space weight doesn't matter
but then again i'm not a trekkie
maybe it does matter *shrug*
Nebula Cruiser, with an engineering pod fit, strengthened SIF and additional crew quarters, designed for fleet operational support during forward deployments.
Assault Nebula - classified as an escort, the Tactical pod contains additional impulse drivers for enhanced manueverability while permitting the fitting of cannon weapons on the forward edge. Intended to be a true 'heavy' Fleet Escort, supporting other ships while dealing out punishing damage.
Recon Nebula - fitted with the sophisticates SWACS pod, the recon variant Nebula boasts massively improved sensors combined with additional shield generators to protect the sophisticated electronics. Intended to serve as the 'eyes' of the fleet, remaining with the main line while sophisticated sensors probe out to wrinkle out hidden threats, these ships serve admirably as heavy Deep Space Reconnaisance Vessels.
In short, think a bit outside the box, you can use very similar models and get three useful ships out of them instead of just one, and spread the 'love' around to science and escort captains.
Please don't do this. Changing it to science obviously has some support here, but it'll make the ship weaker. Especially if it ends up as DSSV.
The Cruiser idea makes it a nice, smooth, powerful ship worth using.
The DSSV idea makes it lack punch, and defense, and turn rate and basically makes it less of what it can really be.
It'll soar as a cruiser. It'll putter along as a science vessel.
Weight kind of matters. It matters through mass. :P
The more massive something is the more energy it'll take to move it. Sure, in space it won't stop moving until it hits something and stuff but if you wanted to reverse you'd need to use a lot more energy to make a full reverse on a massive object like the USS Enterprise compared to the amount of energy you'd need to make a full reverse in a shuttle.
Mass matters, a lot.
Plus he's wrong about this Nebula's mass anyways.
I think Cruisers have had more than enough love already, especially with the Excelsior.
Science Captains need some love too but that Galaxy turn rate makes it rather crappy. A hate cruiser turn rates as it is and I don't want to turn like a brick on my science character.
I too vote for Sci Ship (too many cruisers in game and it's unique ability is very Science-ee), or have both versions the Sci and Cruiser (w/perhaps an alternate ability)... And then why not a Tac version?
Not quite sure where you got that they're a frigate from, Rick Sternbach designed her as an explorer vessel. Though the only reference to the ship in the series was: "Voyager may not be as big as a Galaxy class ship but she's quick and smart, like her Captain." (VOY: "Scientific Method", "Relativity").
I love this idea much better, I realize the pods make the Nebula a more multi-role but I've always seen it as a science type vessel. The other T5 sci-vessles have pods so it kind of fits. Plus, I can't remember the episode name, but I first saw this ship being used to attempt to reignite a star. It was captained by a Dr. and just reeked of science.
Like others have stated, there's been plenty of cruiser lovin, spread it around to the other classes and let them have their ships too. (escort next and please don't forget Klingon equivalents! They need a ton of lovin too!)
Oh, and I hope that turn rate was a typo for the science version... Galaxy turn rate hurts way too much with the loss of extra weapon slots and hull. I like my DSSV but if it's turn rate got any lower I'd cry.
Very first episode, she is talked about in the same vein as the defiant, a new wave of ships designed to pack a punch. The Prometheus class is actually an evolution of the Intrepid design.
p.s http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Nebula_class
Im sure someone has alredy linked that but im not looking back 19 pages:P