*sigh* Why do you always assume that someone disagreeing with you is trying to make you shut up? Did I ever tell you to shut up?
Because every time we get in an argument, you claim ever opinion and inference you make to be fact, that is why I say you try to make me shut up, acting as if I just cannot see reason.
Have I not continually engaged you with questions and explanations to determine your position, and given you opportunities to present evidence in favor of your argument? Every single time I debate you, you conflate facts with opinions and then tell me I'm attempting to belittle you or shut you up. If I wanted to belittle you, I would call you names. If I wanted to shut you up, I'd report you for making a duplicate thread on a settled issue. I have done neither of those.
As I said, the burden of proof is on you. You have offered two things to me as proof:
1. That you have lost something, and that loss is a violation of your agreement with Cryptic.
2. That Cryptic has treated you differently despite an equivalent situation.
I have demonstrated that both are not true with facts, not opinions.
Because you still have your item, you have not lost anything. At worst, your item has depreciated in value, which is the natural order of things and thereby not a violation of your agreement with Cryptic.
Because one transaction was completed and the other was not, they are different situations. I gave you potential reasons why the developers chose to react differently to the different situations because you asked. That part is my opinion and I acknowledged as much, but that the situations are different is not. One is a completed transaction, one is not. That is not subject to either of our opinions.
Now, if you have a #3 to provide, I am happy to hear it.
I am not the one conflating facts and opinions, that would be you. Really, where was this issue settled, please direct me there. And I never said my loss was a violation of Cryptic agreement. You haven't showed fact, you have said "Cryptic did it for this reason", so I ask, where does it say that?, and your response is "I inferred it" that is not fact, but speculation.
While there are differences, which is a fact, technically every persons experience is different so Cryptic can't just consider one RAF person ,they must work with each and every one on a person by person basis, otherwise it is unfair, but that would be a ridiculous waste of time.
My argument is compensation for one person whose Exclusive was put on the C-Store means compensation should be given for everyone whose exclusive was put on the C-Store. You say that holds no water simply because there is one difference between the two.That is, in my opinion, flawed logic.
By the way, when you claim Developers intentions and statements, the burden of proof is on you to show it.
I look forward to hearing a response about how everything I say is just me being unreasonable or not able to see how I am wrong. :cool:
Why do you always assume that someone disagreeing with you is trying to make you shut up? Did I ever tell you to shut up?
Because every time we get in an argument, you claim ever opinion and inference you make to be fact, that is why I say you try to make me shut up, acting as if I just cannot see reason.
I am not the one conflating facts and opinions, that would be you. Really, where was this issue settled, please direct me there. And I never said my loss was a violation of Cryptic agreement. You haven't showed fact, you have said "Cryptic did it for this reason", so I ask, where does it say that?, and your response is "I inferred it" that is not fact, but speculation.
While there are differences, which is a fact, technically every persons experience is different so Cryptic aren't just consider one RAF person ,they must work with each and every one on a person by person basis, otherwise it is unfair, but that would be a ridiculous waste of time.
My argument is compensation for one person whose Exclusive was put on the C-Store means compensation should be given for everyone whose exclusive was put on the C-Store. You say that holds no water simply because there is one difference between the two.That is, in my opinion, flawed logic.
By the way, when you claim Developers intentions and statements, the burden of proof is on you to show it.
I look forward to hearing a response about how everything I say is just me being unreasonable or not able to see how I am wrong. :cool:
Ok, so you do not have a #3?
Excellent. Thank you for another lovely posting experience.
And you have no defense for your baseless arguments?
Excellent.
As I said, burden of proof is on you as the OP. Since you have no more arguments to make in favor of your position, I have nothing further to contribute.
You may now feel free to have the last word if it is that important to you. Have a good evening.
You actually missed my point it was c store was supposed to be cosmetic as in nothing that affects the game in any way...... thats how it was marketed now its selling more and more stuff that has an effect in game...
I'll admit that there is an imbalance right now due to the Galaxy X being in the C-store. However, once Season 2 is on Holodeck, there will be ships of equivalent strength available to players in-game for no additional charge.
As for the special species unlocks in the C-store, each race there is no more powerful than one you have access to automatically through normal game play.
So, any item that can be bought in the C-store continues to have an item of equal power in the game available through natural game play. This is the core of the promise we made to you. We will not sell "I win" buttons for Cryptic Points. The Sword of Khaless, Picard's Wig, and Kirk's Pheromone Cologne, or any other type of Epic Phat Lootz will not be available in the C-store without first making sure that you can earn an item in-game, of equal power. Any item on the store which has an in-game effect will continue to have an item in-game of equal power and usefulness.
I also believe that most everything on the C-store is actually cosmetic when you boil right down to it. The sole exception to this currently is the Galaxy X, and once the Refits come out with Season 2, I believe that imbalance will be corrected. Additionally, according to the vast amount of player feedback, The Galaxy X as it is not not currently out of line with the rest of the ships in the game.
Thanks,
Stormshade
This seems to answer directly the OPs original question. Maybe now he will stop all these rants and topics.
As I said, burden of proof is on you as the OP. Since you have no more arguments to make in favor of your position, I have nothing further to contribute.
You may now feel free to have the last word if it is that important to you. Have a good evening.
So let me get this straight, as the OP, it is my burden to prove your points. Yeah, I could see that when two politicians are talking. "Jim, the oil spill is a problem!", "Bob, it has already been cleaned up!", "Jim, no it hasn't and where is your proof?", "AS the one posing the question, it is your job to try to prove my point!" That would be funny politics. My arguments are fine, believe whatever you wan, I have proven them quite well.
I'll admit that there is an imbalance right now due to the Galaxy X being in the C-store. However, once Season 2 is on Holodeck, there will be ships of equivalent strength available to players in-game for no additional charge.
As for the special species unlocks in the C-store, each race there is no more powerful than one you have access to automatically through normal game play.
So, any item that can be bought in the C-store continues to have an item of equal power in the game available through natural game play. This is the core of the promise we made to you. We will not sell "I win" buttons for Cryptic Points. The Sword of Khaless, Picard's Wig, and Kirk's Pheromone Cologne, or any other type of Epic Phat Lootz will not be available in the C-store without first making sure that you can earn an item in-game, of equal power. Any item on the store which has an in-game effect will continue to have an item in-game of equal power and usefulness.
I also believe that most everything on the C-store is actually cosmetic when you boil right down to it. The sole exception to this currently is the Galaxy X, and once the Refits come out with Season 2, I believe that imbalance will be corrected. Additionally, according to the vast amount of player feedback, The Galaxy X as it is not not currently out of line with the rest of the ships in the game.
Thanks,
Stormshade
Where is the in-game equivalent of the TOS connie? Where is the equivalent of the Borg BO in-game? I had no idea Boff in the game had Borg Neural Blast. Many of the things in the C-Store are above cosmetic.
I haven't ranted or raved, I have stated and defended my ideas and opinions. By the way, it wouldn't be so blurry if you would look at all those smudges on your screen called words and read.
Thats ironic considering several of your topics have been nothing but asking for answers from Devs that others have been able to easily search for and provide. Perhaps a bit more time and reading from yourself and you'd have your answers without the need for these topics.
Okay, then why were the RAFers given compensation? ....
This was done because some Dev statements were made implying that the Galaxy-X was going to be 'exclusive' to the Referral program. (unlike the Vendor Perks, which was stated that they were destined for the C-Store) The overall failure of the Referral program to generate new subscriptions is what caused Cryptic to change their mind on this....
This was done because some Dev statements were made implying that the Galaxy-X was going to be 'exclusive' to the Referral program. (unlike the Vendor Perks, which was stated that they were destined for the C-Store) The overall failure of the Referral program to generate new subscriptions is what caused Cryptic to change their mind on this....
So, why aren't my edition exclusives which were never stated to be destined to the C-Store, not compensated for then? Or the stuff only in the DDE? It boils down to Cryptic compensating one group but not another. By the way, Vendor Perks were sated MIGHT go to the C-Store.
I would personally like to here a DEV's opinion, which according to coderanger should happen.
You really should just PM Stormshade your idea for compensation. The statistical breakdown is clear and concise. And he can take it to the right people in either accounting or marketing and your idea can blossom from there.
Posting it on the forum for us players to see? Doesn't help. We can't get your compensation idea implemented. But Stormshade can. Take this directly to the right people and you have a much better chance of success.
You really should just PM Stormshade your idea for compensation. The statistical breakdown is clear and concise. And he can take it to the right people in either accounting or marketing and your idea can blossom from there.
Posting it on the forum for us players to see? Doesn't help. We can't get your compensation idea implemented. But Stormshade can. Take this directly to the right people and you have a much better chance of success.
The first thing I did was send them the idea, but after getting no response, one of the other DEV's told me it would be more beneficial to post it here.
The first thing I did was send them the idea, but after getting no response, one of the other DEV's told me it would be more beneficial to post it here.
It really depends on what it is you are sending them and how you are presenting it.
Be persistent. Be polite. Re-work your idea. And keep at it.
You know ... the advice they give budding screenwrites and comic book artists is ... get used to rejection, but keep pushing. The same applies here. If you are that invested in your idea ... keep pushing for it.
These forums ... you already know what the result will be. Cyclical and tangential discussion that veers off topic frequently. The only benefit is it stays at the top of the forum. But this forum's not that busy so even that's not a decent benefit here.
We players can't affect change.
Stormshade can get the idea to the people who can make it happen. So if you believe in your idea ... keep politely offering it to Stormshade. It's your best chance of seeing it happen. This thread? It's fate is either to die a quiet death and sink to the bottom of the forum ... or to get closed ... then sink to the bottom of the forum.
It really depends on what it is you are sending them and how you are presenting it.
Be persistent. Be polite. Re-work your idea. And keep at it.
You know ... the advice they give budding screenwrites and comic book artists is ... get used to rejection, but keep pushing. The same applies here. If you are that invested in your idea ... keep pushing for it.
These forums ... you already know what the result will be. Cyclical and tangential discussion that veers off topic frequently. The only benefit is it stays at the top of the forum. But this forum's not that busy so even that's not a decent benefit here.
We players can't affect change.
Stormshade can get the idea to the people who can make it happen. So if you believe in your idea ... keep politely offering it to Stormshade. It's your best chance of seeing it happen. This thread? It's fate is either to die a quiet death and sink to the bottom of the forum ... or to get closed ... then sink to the bottom of the forum.
I have been persistent and polite, and what is there to rework? Actually, players can affect change, (Gal-X threads, Exclusives in the C-Store, etc.)
According to Coderanger, they don't respond to them and this is the only way to get a resp0nse. Believe me, if there were a better way then to have to post a thread, that would quickly become filled with hatred and bashing, I would,
Wasnt the TOS uniform pre-order as well as another item. The TOS uniform ended up in the C-store. Not sure about the other item....Wait, wasnt it the KHAAAAN!!! Emote?
But anyway, atleast one CE item did end up on he C-Store.
I have been persistent and polite, and what is there to rework? Actually, players can affect change, (Gal-X threads, Exclusives in the C-Store, etc.)
According to Coderanger, they don't respond to them and this is the only way to get a resp0nse. Believe me, if there were a better way then to have to post a thread, that would quickly become filled with hatred and bashing, I would,
To be honest i can´t find bashing or hate in this thread, just some people who don´t agree with you all the time. And Superchum is encouraging and helpful as ever.
Wasnt the TOS uniform pre-order as well as another item. The TOS uniform ended up in the C-store. Not sure about the other item....Wait, wasnt it the KHAAAAN!!! Emote?
But anyway, atleast one CE item did end up on he C-Store.
The TOS uniform, emotes, registry prefix, Joined trill, DS9 uniforms, TNG uniforms, and Joined Trill are all on the C-Store but none of them were pre-order exclusives or vendor exclusives
To be honest i can´t find bashing or hate in this thread, just some people who don´t agree with you all the time. And Superchum is encouraging and helpful as ever.
I was referring to people just poppin up and calling me raving or ranting, etc.
I have been persistent and polite, and what is there to rework?
I don't know. I'd have to see what you've written to him. But I did spend a lot of time as a copy editor and have helped a lot of people with their writing over the years. And obviously your idea isn't getting a response, so some rewrites might definitely be in order.
Actually, players can affect change, (Gal-X threads, Exclusives in the C-Store, etc.)
That's not quite the same thing. That was a massive amount of players. You don't seem to have that type of support network here. You're going it mostly alone. You need to focus on your idea and get it to the right people, since the inertia is working against you here. You don't have the leverage to change their minds with thousands of posters agreeing with you. So you have to switch to a more focused tactic.
According to Coderanger, they don't respond to them and this is the only way to get a resp0nse.
That's not what Coderanger told you. You're locking in on semantics. And that's never going to get you anywhere. Coderanger said they don't have the time to always respond to individual communications.
You really would be so much more successful if you changed your tactics. As it is now you tend to go about this entirely the wrong way. I'm trying to give you some helpful advice. I really am. I've worked in the media for almost 15 years. I've been an editor. And a designer. And I've even worked in marketing. The journey you are taking with your ideas is a dead end. There's a much more effective way of doing this. But you seem to be very resistant to trying them.
I don't know. I'd have to see what you've written to him. But I did spend a lot of time as a copy editor and have helped a lot of people with their writing over the years. And obviously your idea isn't getting a response, so some rewrites might definitely be in order.
That's not quite the same thing. That was a massive amount of players. You don't seem to have that type of support network here. You're going it mostly alone. You need to focus on your idea and get it to the right people, since the inertia is working against you here. You don't have the leverage to change their minds with thousands of posters agreeing with you. So you have to switch to a more focused tactic.
That's not what Coderanger told you. You're locking in on semantics. And that's never going to get you anywhere. Coderanger said they don't have the time to always respond to individual communications.
You really would be so much more successful if you changed your tactics. As it is now you tend to go about this entirely the wrong way. I'm trying to give you some helpful advice. I really am. I've worked in the media for almost 15 years. I've been an editor. And a designer. And I've even worked in marketing. The journey you are taking with your ideas is a dead end. There's a much more effective way of doing this. But you seem to be very resistant to trying them.
Anyways, good luck with the choices you make.
He said to get a RESPOnSE, I have to post here, not for it to get read, but to get a response.
Exactly what is this much more effective way of doing this?
Wasnt the TOS uniform pre-order as well as another item. The TOS uniform ended up in the C-store. Not sure about the other item....Wait, wasnt it the KHAAAAN!!! Emote?
But anyway, atleast one CE item did end up on he C-Store.
Like the OP stated the TOS was not a preorder nor was Khaan emote that was all part of the DDE.
Sorry, William but i do not really think they stole anything from you.
From the start when i bought the game and when i chose to become i lifer i new that some item would make it to the store and i do not mind it. I got a Liberated Borg for the lifer and a TOS connie when i bought the game and i see them has a bonus because i would have bought the game and chose a life item anyway.
If you bought the game many times just for the item and chose not to read the faq about them it's your fault and not Cryptic fault for that.
I for one, do not see why they should give you anything. People who want a TOS connie must pay for it and i got mine with the game i bought. What do i lose... Nothing.
I just mean by that is that i think it was one. I mean when i bought the game from Gamestop it was a pre-order and it was marked has a bonus (like i say, i think so)... Sadly i no longer have the page from them.
What are you talking about?
Read the responses I am refereeing to.
He stated something was a preorder item I stated it was not but came with an edition of the game. Also he is talking about things that were preorder that are in the c-store and I listed things that were preorder that have not been put onto the c-store then you start saying you got a connie from Gamestop.
If you want to make a statement that is off topic, dont quote someone.
Comments
Because every time we get in an argument, you claim ever opinion and inference you make to be fact, that is why I say you try to make me shut up, acting as if I just cannot see reason.
I am not the one conflating facts and opinions, that would be you. Really, where was this issue settled, please direct me there. And I never said my loss was a violation of Cryptic agreement. You haven't showed fact, you have said "Cryptic did it for this reason", so I ask, where does it say that?, and your response is "I inferred it" that is not fact, but speculation.
While there are differences, which is a fact, technically every persons experience is different so Cryptic can't just consider one RAF person ,they must work with each and every one on a person by person basis, otherwise it is unfair, but that would be a ridiculous waste of time.
My argument is compensation for one person whose Exclusive was put on the C-Store means compensation should be given for everyone whose exclusive was put on the C-Store. You say that holds no water simply because there is one difference between the two.That is, in my opinion, flawed logic.
By the way, when you claim Developers intentions and statements, the burden of proof is on you to show it.
I look forward to hearing a response about how everything I say is just me being unreasonable or not able to see how I am wrong. :cool:
Ok, so you do not have a #3?
Excellent. Thank you for another lovely posting experience.
And you have no defense for your baseless arguments?
Excellent.
As I said, burden of proof is on you as the OP. Since you have no more arguments to make in favor of your position, I have nothing further to contribute.
You may now feel free to have the last word if it is that important to you. Have a good evening.
Tarjan asked the same question in another topic. Shame the OP missed it
And StormShades reply.
This seems to answer directly the OPs original question. Maybe now he will stop all these rants and topics.
So let me get this straight, as the OP, it is my burden to prove your points. Yeah, I could see that when two politicians are talking. "Jim, the oil spill is a problem!", "Bob, it has already been cleaned up!", "Jim, no it hasn't and where is your proof?", "AS the one posing the question, it is your job to try to prove my point!" That would be funny politics. My arguments are fine, believe whatever you wan, I have proven them quite well.
No it doesn't. My question was "Why was one group given compensation, when another group is denied it" This doesn't answer it at all.
As for the quote well
Where is the in-game equivalent of the TOS connie? Where is the equivalent of the Borg BO in-game? I had no idea Boff in the game had Borg Neural Blast. Many of the things in the C-Store are above cosmetic.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=2887981&postcount=1
Ive corrected myself by posting there.
I haven't ranted or raved, I have stated and defended my ideas and opinions. By the way, it wouldn't be so blurry if you would look at all those smudges on your screen called words and read.
So, why aren't my edition exclusives which were never stated to be destined to the C-Store, not compensated for then? Or the stuff only in the DDE? It boils down to Cryptic compensating one group but not another. By the way, Vendor Perks were sated MIGHT go to the C-Store.
I would personally like to here a DEV's opinion, which according to coderanger should happen.
Posting it on the forum for us players to see? Doesn't help. We can't get your compensation idea implemented. But Stormshade can. Take this directly to the right people and you have a much better chance of success.
The first thing I did was send them the idea, but after getting no response, one of the other DEV's told me it would be more beneficial to post it here.
It really depends on what it is you are sending them and how you are presenting it.
Be persistent. Be polite. Re-work your idea. And keep at it.
You know ... the advice they give budding screenwrites and comic book artists is ... get used to rejection, but keep pushing. The same applies here. If you are that invested in your idea ... keep pushing for it.
These forums ... you already know what the result will be. Cyclical and tangential discussion that veers off topic frequently. The only benefit is it stays at the top of the forum. But this forum's not that busy so even that's not a decent benefit here.
We players can't affect change.
Stormshade can get the idea to the people who can make it happen. So if you believe in your idea ... keep politely offering it to Stormshade. It's your best chance of seeing it happen. This thread? It's fate is either to die a quiet death and sink to the bottom of the forum ... or to get closed ... then sink to the bottom of the forum.
I have been persistent and polite, and what is there to rework? Actually, players can affect change, (Gal-X threads, Exclusives in the C-Store, etc.)
According to Coderanger, they don't respond to them and this is the only way to get a resp0nse. Believe me, if there were a better way then to have to post a thread, that would quickly become filled with hatred and bashing, I would,
Wasnt the TOS uniform pre-order as well as another item. The TOS uniform ended up in the C-store. Not sure about the other item....Wait, wasnt it the KHAAAAN!!! Emote?
But anyway, atleast one CE item did end up on he C-Store.
To be honest i can´t find bashing or hate in this thread, just some people who don´t agree with you all the time. And Superchum is encouraging and helpful as ever.
The TOS uniform, emotes, registry prefix, Joined trill, DS9 uniforms, TNG uniforms, and Joined Trill are all on the C-Store but none of them were pre-order exclusives or vendor exclusives
I was referring to people just poppin up and calling me raving or ranting, etc.
Okay, that´s true.
I don't know. I'd have to see what you've written to him. But I did spend a lot of time as a copy editor and have helped a lot of people with their writing over the years. And obviously your idea isn't getting a response, so some rewrites might definitely be in order.
That's not quite the same thing. That was a massive amount of players. You don't seem to have that type of support network here. You're going it mostly alone. You need to focus on your idea and get it to the right people, since the inertia is working against you here. You don't have the leverage to change their minds with thousands of posters agreeing with you. So you have to switch to a more focused tactic.
That's not what Coderanger told you. You're locking in on semantics. And that's never going to get you anywhere. Coderanger said they don't have the time to always respond to individual communications.
You really would be so much more successful if you changed your tactics. As it is now you tend to go about this entirely the wrong way. I'm trying to give you some helpful advice. I really am. I've worked in the media for almost 15 years. I've been an editor. And a designer. And I've even worked in marketing. The journey you are taking with your ideas is a dead end. There's a much more effective way of doing this. But you seem to be very resistant to trying them.
Anyways, good luck with the choices you make.
He said to get a RESPOnSE, I have to post here, not for it to get read, but to get a response.
Exactly what is this much more effective way of doing this?
Sending PM's (done it)
Make a thread (done it)
Send emails ( done it)
Calling (tried it)
Contact Atari (tried it)
Like the OP stated the TOS was not a preorder nor was Khaan emote that was all part of the DDE.
http://www.atari.com/games/startrek_online_digital_deluxe_ed/download
The only preorder stuff I think we are missing is the Steam preorder armor and the Wal-Mart preorder bonus skill points.
Uniforms were not part of a preorder.
From the start when i bought the game and when i chose to become i lifer i new that some item would make it to the store and i do not mind it. I got a Liberated Borg for the lifer and a TOS connie when i bought the game and i see them has a bonus because i would have bought the game and chose a life item anyway.
If you bought the game many times just for the item and chose not to read the faq about them it's your fault and not Cryptic fault for that.
I for one, do not see why they should give you anything. People who want a TOS connie must pay for it and i got mine with the game i bought. What do i lose... Nothing.
Yes but that is already on the C-store. I got my connie from Gamestop also.
What are you talking about?
Read the responses I am refereeing to.
He stated something was a preorder item I stated it was not but came with an edition of the game. Also he is talking about things that were preorder that are in the c-store and I listed things that were preorder that have not been put onto the c-store then you start saying you got a connie from Gamestop.
If you want to make a statement that is off topic, dont quote someone.