I understand why you're saying what you are. However, the bonus items were just that, bonuses, or incentives, and they were exclusive for a time. What you paid for when you bought the Champions Online Lifetime Sub, and the Star Trek Online Lifetime Sub were the ability to play those games for the life of the game, and never have to pay for those games again.
You'll be able to play both of those games for years to come, and to me, that's where the value of the Lifetime Sub lies. It's not in the Mirror Universe Uniform perk, the Liberated Borg Species, or any other special perk.
Meanwhile, lots of other players were wanting some of those items, and missed out on the opportunity to get them. We feel that allowing those players the opportunity to get them is a good thing.
We certainly didn't sit around and say we want to **** off everyone who joined us early, or bought multiple copies of the game. However, most of these items really are not incredibly valuable to game play any longer. That, more than anything else, is why we feel now is a good time to give the people who didn't have the chance, or opportunity to get these items at launch time.
I thank you for your feedback, and I'm sorry that we disagree on this issue.
I completely understand, and am glad to hear you'll be staying around. Season 2 is looking pretty sweet, and I hope you're as excited for it as I am. Your feedback is very valuable to us, and we appreciate everything you post here (That goes for all of you by the way). Yes, even when you tell us you don't like something. We want to hear that from you. Your feedback is how we're going to continue to improve STO.
Now, we also value other people's feedback too. We've seen a very large number of posts from people asking us to put up these items on the C-store. We talked about this quite a bit before we decided on when we should do this.
We certainly didn't sit around and say we want to **** off everyone who joined us early, or bought multiple copies of the game. However, most of these items really are not incredibly valuable to game play any longer. That, more than anything else, is why we feel now is a good time to give the people who didn't have the chance, or opportunity to get these items at launch time.
Your opinion however, is just as valid as theirs.
Thanks,
Stormshade
Meh what i'm getting out of this debacle is that lifetimers are now someone you don't give a damn about, after all, you already have their money.
If thats the case, then the feedback itself doesnt really matter at all. The only question would be which decision would make the most money: C-store purchases vs potential cancellations of unhappy people. And TBH, that answer has pretty much been obvious from the start.
Each side having equal value in arguments doesn't mean each side had equal numbers of proponents.
That may be true, but this decision was made without any kind of poll. Granted, the one I posted showed the people who supported this vs those that didnt as a 60/40 ratio, but that was after Cryptic had already made the decision.
Once again though, I agree with this decision. I just dont agree with all of the official statements about it. At the end of the day more money = more development power, so theres no need to beat around the bush with that.
I'm glad a Dev chose to post what some of us have been saying for days now.
Everyone keeps saying they "paid $200 for that item!" and whatnot, completely ignoring the fact that they got something worth at least $200 with that item.
This goes back to how you approached the purchase. The idea of any of these deals is to just put you over the top if you are on the fence about buying whatever it is, not to sell you something you don't want for something you do. For some of you, that was the effect, but that's not the idea.
If they had put the item you wanted in the C-store at the start, and put a price of $50-$200 on it, would people still have bought it? I'm pretty sure there would've been an uproar about how it's just a costume how can it possibly cost $200 etc. etc.
If thats the case, then the feedback itself doesnt really matter at all. The only question would be which decision would make the most money(C-store purchases vs potential cancellations of unhappy people).
IWe certainly didn't sit around and say we want to **** off everyone who joined us early, or bought multiple copies of the game.
YOU LIE!.......... j/k
With all due respect, in the future could your marketing people please put something in bold print that explains to customers what they are buying? Do this so they understand they are buying a subscription to a game that comes with a free gift and not a $200 dollar digital doll outfit that comes with a free subscription to a game.
I also hope that Lifetime Subscriptions will not be offered in the C-Store for 1% of what they originally cost. I do not care if you offer the Borg character or not. If people really want to play it, put it up there.
I thank you for your feedback, and I'm sorry that we disagree on this issue.
I completely understand, and am glad to hear you'll be staying around. Season 2 is looking pretty sweet, and I hope you're as excited for it as I am. Your feedback is very valuable to us, and we appreciate everything you post here (That goes for all of you by the way). Yes, even when you tell us you don't like something. We want to hear that from you. Your feedback is how we're going to continue to improve STO.
Now, we also value other people's feedback too. We've seen a very large number of posts from people asking us to put up these items on the C-store. We talked about this quite a bit before we decided on when we should do this.
We certainly didn't sit around and say we want to **** off everyone who joined us early, or bought multiple copies of the game. However, most of these items really are not incredibly valuable to game play any longer. That, more than anything else, is why we feel now is a good time to give the people who didn't have the chance, or opportunity to get these items at launch time.
Your opinion however, is just as valid as theirs.
Thanks,
Stormshade
I understand about the LTS being what was paid for and the free stuff was just free stuff. I paid for the LT because I like ST and wanted to be a part of this game for as long as the server is up.
My problem has been the game as a whole. It was missing what would keep me from wanting to continue playing day after day. There was/is so much missing that would make this game great. Ans I agree about Season 2. It can't come soon enough for me. I have stopped playing all together untill Season 2 is live because of the lack of options at the moment. But that is another story for another thread.
Many appreciate the fact that you do listen and react to feedback. Obviously when you do react, some will be upset and some will be happy. That is just the way it is. I do agree with the OP a bit, but the problem may have been the fact that the exclusive items should have been something other than a wanted item from the ST lore. That is why many play STO. They want to be anpart of ST. With the items in the C-store. They will now be able to buy the look they want if it wasn't in the game or a free gift. It is better for the game in the long run to have these items for players to use when they want.
My only issue with the C-Store Mega Update is you've chosen to sell only certain bonuses. Some customers have had their exclusives devalued and others have not. You guys really need to comment on this and tell us that you plan on making ALL bonuses available in the near future. Otherwise, you've basically given the middle finger to some players while you have given a warm hug to others.
On the other hand, there's another, much clearer, promise that would be very clearly violated by selling the Red Matter Capacitor, TR-116, Automated Defense Battery, droppable phaser turret (Steam), beam weapon power absorber thingy (D2D), and whatever exclusives out there also have gameplay attrbutes. That's the promise not to sell gameplay-affecting items in the C-Store unless they could be acquired through gameplay as well. Examples of actually following that policy are the respecs and now the Borg BOff*
Of course, I also maintain that this is violated by the unique gameplay properties assosciated with the C-store Tellarites, Pakleds, Caitians, Joined Trill, and TOS Constitution light cruiser.
*It's different but the relevant mechanical aspect is "BOff with Borg racial traits".
If thats the case, then the feedback itself doesnt really matter at all. The only question would be which decision would make the most money: C-store purchases vs potential cancellations of unhappy people. And TBH, that answer has pretty much been obvious from the start.
That may be true, but this decision was made without any kind of poll. Granted, the one I posted showed the people who supported this vs those that didnt as a 60/40 ratio, but that was after Cryptic had already made the decision.
Once again though, I agree with this decision. I just dont agree with all of the official statements about it. At the end of the day more money = more development power, so theres no need to beat around the bush with that.
They could be weighing private feedback received that we don't know about as well. Who knows. I agree in the end it's for the best and the people crying about it haven't really thought about what that item represents, which is basically not a lot. If you did fork out that kind of cash for an exclusive item and not for the game itself...wow...
They could be weighing private feedback received that we don't know about as well. Who knows. I agree in the end it's for the best and the people crying about it haven't really thought about what that item represents, which is basically not a lot. If you did fork out that kind of cash for an exclusive item and not for the game itself...wow...
If by "private feedback" you mean Atari making them do it, your probably right
A guaranteed slot into the closed beta for Star Trek Online. (I know, I know, but let's not go there please)
The unique Mirror Universe Uniform for STO. (Now a $3.50 value)
The Art Deco Set (Still exclusive only to lifetime and 6 month pre-order subs from CO)
The Retro Future Set (Still exclusive, only to LT subs for CO)
And the Foxbat Action Figure (Still Exclusive to LT subs for CO)
... I don't think that word means what you want it to mean in that sentence.
it's not unique if everyone can get it... or indeed, if we're pushing the boundaries, even unique to pre-orders/life-timers.
Quite obviously, the people who feel they have been "cheated", which is why buying an item for the bonus rather than for the product itself is a bad idea. This whole situation proves it better than anything I could say.
Tell that to people who buy mercedes, rolls royce, porche, ferrari or people who buy Dolce, Prada etc
Any car can get you from A to B, any set of clothes keeps you warm... you DONT have to buy anything special but perks that come with cars (e.g. Air Con) and brand names are what sells. I dont hear people saying to them "its a bad idea".
I understand why you're saying what you are. However, the bonus items were just that, bonuses, or incentives, and they were exclusive for a time. What you paid for when you bought the Champions Online Lifetime Sub, and the Star Trek Online Lifetime Sub were the ability to play those games for the life of the game, and never have to pay for those games again.
You'll be able to play both of those games for years to come, and to me, that's where the value of the Lifetime Sub lies. It's not in the Mirror Universe Uniform perk, the Liberated Borg Species, or any other special perk.
Meanwhile, lots of other players were wanting some of those items, and missed out on the opportunity to get them. We feel that allowing those players the opportunity to get them is a good thing.
This was bad bad bad bad. What it says is that Cryptic will keep it's word unless it decides not to. Exclusive means exclusive, not "for a time." That's a limited time exclusive. There is no point in buying those because you can just wait until everyone can get them. Then there is no incentive to buy them. It's a trick, it's a ripoff and what it says is that you can't trust Cryptic. When you sell your soul for a dollar you pay price. Please read the story, the boy who cried wolf. If you don't get it, you never will....
After this I honestly can't and won't recommend this game to ANYONE not just Star Trek fans....:mad:
On the flip side, I'm glad you can get the borg BO officer because I wanted one. However, I will never trust, and I'd be a fool to, any gimmick the has the word exclusive in it because Cryptic will just sell it out when it feels the need to. The same goes for the EXCLUSIVE Klingon enemy, when will that be sold out? Hahahahhaahaha!!
These were exactly the sentiments and thoughts I was having. Exclusive does indeed mean "Exclusive" NOT early release that will be available to everyone else in a few months!
Storm,
Being in marketing myself I know how good or bad word of mouth advertising can be. Did your marketing team not learn from the numerous debacles previously? There were many deception/miscommunications (perspective depends on who you talk to) from the Comms team over the last 9 months including CO Lifetime sub availability, mass changes to CO gameplay on day of release after the headstart weekend, late submission to STO beta for those with CO lifetime subs where random public got in before them and a few bad decisions that I can remember specifics.
In light of all this AND from negative feedback from members on this forum about doing this C-store release (either at all or so early into the life of the game) you go ahead and do it anyway. Not only does it show a lack of respect for those who put trust in your marketing advertising and paid money for your "incentives" but it also shows a lack of willingness to listen to the forums. Yes some people wanted the items, others meanwhile thought it was a bad idea. Yet it seems Cryptic just leaps into everything without caring for marketing consequences.
Is this another 'Atari made us do it' situation?
Is it something we should be worried about financially for Cryptic that it needs cash that bad it is willing to alienate a lot of players?
Whilst you are trying to put forward the perspective that no incentives are exclusive (which is NOT how you marketed your product btw) and that people paid for a game with temporary bonuses, I would really like to know were members feeling hard done by because they missed out on early incentives and were likely to quit becuase they couldnt get them OR are members who paid excessive amounts of money to obtain exclusive STO memorabilia now feeling more miffed and more likely to quit or ever trust a Cryptic offer again?
What defines a traditional collector? I would have said someone who obtains rare, limited or out of production memorabilia. I wish I had bought a Van Gogh painting cheap when he was still alive. If I wanted one now it would be impossible to afford. That is generally how exclusivity works. If you go to a Convention or Trade fair for a limited edition item you dont expect that to then go into mass production later in the year. Anyone else see the parallels here?
Its about a business plan and trust and both are being undermined by simple nickle & dime transactions! Please think before making these rash decision and now try to come up with a solution to appease the special edition collectors and CO lifetime sub owners.
... I don't think that word means what you want it to mean in that sentence.
it's not unique if everyone can get it... or indeed, if we're pushing the boundaries, even unique to pre-orders/life-timers.
Semantics, I know.
No, this has all been hashed and rehashed. The word means exactly what they intended it to mean, and still does: at the time of the offer, it was unique and/or exclusive to those purchasers. The problem is that some people want unique to also mean "forever."
I understand why you're saying what you are. However, the bonus items were just that, bonuses, or incentives, and they were exclusive for a time. What you paid for when you bought the Champions Online Lifetime Sub, and the Star Trek Online Lifetime Sub were the ability to play those games for the life of the game, and never have to pay for those games again.
You'll be able to play both of those games for years to come, and to me, that's where the value of the Lifetime Sub lies. It's not in the Mirror Universe Uniform perk, the Liberated Borg Species, or any other special perk.
Meanwhile, lots of other players were wanting some of those items, and missed out on the opportunity to get them. We feel that allowing those players the opportunity to get them is a good thing.
Thanks,
Stormshade
Give me a break...all you guys looked at was the $$$$ like you guys always do.
I was. They totally said the whole point was to TRIBBLE over a bunch of whining teenagers and laugh at them as they lost their minds on the forums.
Or they might've just said that the community was interested in paying money for the items and it would make good business sense to do it. I'm not sure. It was several months ago.
Tell that to people who buy mercedes, rolls royce, porche, ferrari or people who buy Dolce, Prada etc
Any car can get you from A to B, any set of clothes keeps you warm... you DONT have to buy anything special but perks that come with cars (e.g. Air Con) and brand names are what sells. I dont hear people saying to them "its a bad idea".
Wow, that has to be one of the worst jobs at making a comparison I have ever seen. A "bonus" and a "brand" name are NOT the same thing. We're NOT talking about BRAND names here, we're talking about a product that comes with a BONUS.
I understand why you're saying what you are. However, the bonus items were just that, bonuses, or incentives, and they were exclusive for a time. What you paid for when you bought the Champions Online Lifetime Sub, and the Star Trek Online Lifetime Sub were the ability to play those games for the life of the game, and never have to pay for those games again.
You'll be able to play both of those games for years to come, and to me, that's where the value of the Lifetime Sub lies. It's not in the Mirror Universe Uniform perk, the Liberated Borg Species, or any other special perk.
Meanwhile, lots of other players were wanting some of those items, and missed out on the opportunity to get them. We feel that allowing those players the opportunity to get them is a good thing.
Thanks,
Stormshade
Missed out and unwilling to pay are two different things. Just my opinion, please don't attack me fellow forumers.
Missed out and unwilling to pay are two different things. Just my opinion, please don't attack me fellow forumers.
You actually have a point. The only item that is currently unavailable from the ones they added was the MU uniform. Everything else is still obtainable through the retailers...I think.
No, this has all been hashed and rehashed. The word means exactly what they intended it to mean, and still does: at the time of the offer, it was unique and/or exclusive to those purchasers. The problem is that some people want unique to also mean "forever."
... I don't think that word means what you want it to mean in that sentence.
it's not unique if everyone can get it... or indeed, if we're pushing the boundaries, even unique to pre-orders/life-timers.
Semantics, I know.
I think you're applying the word unique improperly. The MIrror Universe Uniform is unique. It is the only uniform from the mirror universe. It is one of the most unique uniforms in the game. It has a sash. No other federation uniforms have sashes.
Meh what i'm getting out of this debacle is that lifetimers are now someone you don't give a damn about, after all, you already have their money.
You couldn't be more wrong. We value you all immensely. Not only have you heavily invested in us early, but you also form a core group of players which we need to work just as hard to keep playing as people on recurring subscriptions. If you all leave, we've failed.
With all due respect, in the future could your marketing people please put something in bold print that explains to customers what they are buying? Do this so they understand they are buying a subscription to a game that comes with a free gift and not a $200 dollar digital doll outfit that comes with a free subscription to a game.
I also hope that Lifetime Subscriptions will not be offered in the C-Store for 1% of what they originally cost. I do not care if you offer the Borg character or not. If people really want to play it, put it up there.
Oddly enough, I was just talking to Rekhan, and he was just saying the same thing as you. This is an area where we can improve, and will.
As for Lifetime subscriptions being offered for $2.00... Don't worry, it'll never happen.
To answer questions about where we get our feedback from, there are certainly various different sources. We get feedback from the forums, in-game tickets, e-mails, snail mail (Weird huh?), surveys, other external sources, internal sources. We really like feedback.
In this case, we felt that the players who wanted us to move in this direction was much greater than the number of people who would be upset. So, we decided to go forward in that direction.
This is really similar in quite a few ways to when we implemented a death penalty.
A large number of players were very vocal about wanting a death penalty.
We release the death penalty, and another group is very against a death penalty.
We compromise, so that the death penalty is optional.
The group that wanted the death penalty is unhappy because it's optional.
It's a situation where we really can't make everyone happy. This time, without a doubt, many more players are happy with the decision we made to release these items on the C-store.
Unfortunately, this comes at the cost of injured feelings of some other players. It is not our intent to injure the feelings of those of you who are upset. That makes no sense for us to do. It does make sense for us to try to please as much of our player base as we can however. Which is what we always strive to do.
Tell that to people who buy mercedes, rolls royce, porche, ferrari or people who buy Dolce, Prada etc
Any car can get you from A to B, any set of clothes keeps you warm... you DONT have to buy anything special but perks that come with cars (e.g. Air Con) and brand names are what sells. I dont hear people saying to them "its a bad idea".
These were exactly the sentiments and thoughts I was having. Exclusive does indeed mean "Exclusive" NOT early release that will be available to everyone else in a few months!
Storm,
Being in marketing myself I know how good or bad word of mouth advertising can be. Did your marketing team not learn from the numerous debacles previously? There were many deception/miscommunications (perspective depends on who you talk to) from the Comms team over the last 9 months including CO Lifetime sub availability, mass changes to CO gameplay on day of release after the headstart weekend, late submission to STO beta for those with CO lifetime subs where random public got in before them and a few bad decisions that I can remember specifics.
In light of all this AND from negative feedback from members on this forum about doing this C-store release (either at all or so early into the life of the game) you go ahead and do it anyway. Not only does it show a lack of respect for those who put trust in your marketing advertising and paid money for your "incentives" but it also shows a lack of willingness to listen to the forums. Yes some people wanted the items, others meanwhile thought it was a bad idea. Yet it seems Cryptic just leaps into everything without caring for marketing consequences.
Is this another 'Atari made us do it' situation?
Is it something we should be worried about financially for Cryptic that it needs cash that bad it is willing to alienate a lot of players?
Whilst you are trying to put forward the perspective that no incentives are exclusive (which is NOT how you marketed your product btw) and that people paid for a game with temporary bonuses, I would really like to know were members feeling hard done by because they missed out on early incentives and were likely to quit becuase they couldnt get them OR are members who paid excessive amounts of money to obtain exclusive STO memorabilia now feeling more miffed and more likely to quit or ever trust a Cryptic offer again?
What defines a traditional collector? I would have said someone who obtains rare, limited or out of production memorabilia. I wish I had bought a Van Gogh painting cheap when he was still alive. If I wanted one now it would be impossible to afford. That is generally how exclusivity works. If you go to a Convention or Trade fair for a limited edition item you dont expect that to then go into mass production later in the year. Anyone else see the parallels here?
Its about a business plan and trust and both are being undermined by simple nickle & dime transactions! Please think before making these rash decision and now try to come up with a solution to appease the special edition collectors and CO lifetime sub owners.
Many thanks
As a person who works in marketing, have you also considered that the ONE thing that has been consistent with this community from the beginning, is that they will find almost ANYTHING to complain and create an uproar about? Let's not forget that there was an uproar not that long ago because some people on the forums could change their names blue. As someone in marketing, I would hope that you would also realize that what was sold was a lifetime subscription to Champions, and the MU uniforms were a bonus. Unless, of course you contend that paying $200 for a uniform seemed reasonable to you. I would hope that someone such as yourself, that works in marketing, would realize the strategy was to get Champions players interested in STO, as a bonus to their lifetime sub.
Finally, I'm sure that someone such as yourself, would NEVER mistake an "Exclusive" piece of art by a dead artist as being comparable to a digital uniform that clearly can be reproduced endlessly. I'm sure you wouldn't suggest that, right?
Storm,
Being in marketing myself I know how good or bad word of mouth advertising can be. Did your marketing team not learn from the numerous debacles previously? There were many deception/miscommunications (perspective depends on who you talk to) from the Comms team over the last 9 months including CO Lifetime sub availability, mass changes to CO gameplay on day of release after the headstart weekend, late submission to STO beta for those with CO lifetime subs where random public got in before them and a few bad decisions that I can remember specifics. In light of all this AND from negative feedback from members on this forum about doing this C-store release (either at all or so early into the life of the game) you go ahead and do it anyway. Not only does it show a lack of respect for those who put trust in your marketing advertising and paid money for your "incentives" but it also shows a lack of willingness to listen to the forums. Yes some people wanted the items, others meanwhile thought it was a bad idea. Yet it seems Cryptic just leaps into everything without caring for marketing consequences. Is this another 'Atari made us do it' situation? Is it something we should be worried about financially for Cryptic that it needs cash that bad it is willing to alienate a lot of players?
Whilst you are trying to put forward the perspective that no incentives are exclusive (which is NOT how you marketed your product btw) and that people paid for a game with temporary bonuses, I would really like to know were members feeling hard done by because they missed out on early incentives and were likely to quit becuase they couldnt get them OR are members who paid excessive amounts of money to obtain exclusive STO memorabilia now feeling more miffed and more likely to quit or ever trust a Cryptic offer again?
What defines a traditional collector? I would have said someone who obtains rare, limited or out of production memorabilia. I wish I had bought a Van Gogh painting cheap when he was still alive. If I wanted one now it would be impossible to afford. That is generally how exclusivity works. If you go to a Convention or Trade fair for a limited edition item you dont expect that to then go into mass production later in the year. Anyone else see the parallels here?
Its about a business plan and trust and both are being undermined by simple nickle & dime transactions! Please think before making these rash decision and now try to come up with a solution to appease the special edition collectors and CO lifetime sub owners.
Many thanks
If you are that confident of Cryptic's deceptive practices then there are some people on the forums demanding compensation that could use your help.
The rest of it is the usual emotional appeal. Nice attempt at positioning it from authority; your lead in of being in Marketing.
So far these types of arguments haven't been successful.
To answer questions about where we get our feedback from, there are certainly various different sources. We get feedback from the forums, in-game tickets, e-mails, snail mail (Weird huh?), surveys, other external sources, internal sources. We really like feedback.
Just out of curiosity, why didnt you have an official poll on this?
In this case, we felt that the players who wanted us to move in this direction was much greater than the number of people who would be upset. So, we decided to go forward in that direction.
The word I highlighted above seems a little odd here. If you did in fact receive alot of feedback(of the types you mentioned above) about this issue, why was it just a feeling rather than knowing?
Again, I agree with this decision, just not all the corporate speak. Clearly this brings more money into the game and that is a good thing; just say that.
Tell that to people who buy mercedes, rolls royce, porche, ferrari or people who buy Dolce, Prada etc
Any car can get you from A to B, any set of clothes keeps you warm... you DONT have to buy anything special but perks that come with cars (e.g. Air Con) and brand names are what sells. I dont hear people saying to them "its a bad idea".
These were exactly the sentiments and thoughts I was having. Exclusive does indeed mean "Exclusive" NOT early release that will be available to everyone else in a few months!
Storm,
Being in marketing myself I know how good or bad word of mouth advertising can be. Did your marketing team not learn from the numerous debacles previously? There were many deception/miscommunications (perspective depends on who you talk to) from the Comms team over the last 9 months including CO Lifetime sub availability, mass changes to CO gameplay on day of release after the headstart weekend, late submission to STO beta for those with CO lifetime subs where random public got in before them and a few bad decisions that I can remember specifics.
In light of all this AND from negative feedback from members on this forum about doing this C-store release (either at all or so early into the life of the game) you go ahead and do it anyway. Not only does it show a lack of respect for those who put trust in your marketing advertising and paid money for your "incentives" but it also shows a lack of willingness to listen to the forums. Yes some people wanted the items, others meanwhile thought it was a bad idea. Yet it seems Cryptic just leaps into everything without caring for marketing consequences.
Is this another 'Atari made us do it' situation?
Is it something we should be worried about financially for Cryptic that it needs cash that bad it is willing to alienate a lot of players?
Whilst you are trying to put forward the perspective that no incentives are exclusive (which is NOT how you marketed your product btw) and that people paid for a game with temporary bonuses, I would really like to know were members feeling hard done by because they missed out on early incentives and were likely to quit becuase they couldnt get them OR are members who paid excessive amounts of money to obtain exclusive STO memorabilia now feeling more miffed and more likely to quit or ever trust a Cryptic offer again?
What defines a traditional collector? I would have said someone who obtains rare, limited or out of production memorabilia. I wish I had bought a Van Gogh painting cheap when he was still alive. If I wanted one now it would be impossible to afford. That is generally how exclusivity works. If you go to a Convention or Trade fair for a limited edition item you dont expect that to then go into mass production later in the year. Anyone else see the parallels here?
Its about a business plan and trust and both are being undermined by simple nickle & dime transactions! Please think before making these rash decision and now try to come up with a solution to appease the special edition collectors and CO lifetime sub owners.
the ONE thing that has been consistent with this community from the beginning, is that they will find almost ANYTHING to complain and create an uproar about
To answer questions about where we get our feedback from, there are certainly various different sources. We get feedback from the forums, in-game tickets, e-mails, snail mail (Weird huh?), surveys, other external sources, internal sources. We really like feedback.
In this case, we felt that the players who wanted us to move in this direction was much greater than the number of people who would be upset. So, we decided to go forward in that direction.
It's a situation where we really can't make everyone happy. This time, without a doubt, many more players are happy with the decision we made to release these items on the C-store.
Unfortunately, this comes at the cost of injured feelings of some other players. It is not our intent to injure the feelings of those of you who are upset. That makes no sense for us to do. It does make sense for us to try to please as much of our player base as we can however. Which is what we always strive to do.
Whoa, time out here.
The logical conclusion of this is: no exclusive offers, ever. Since exclusive offers are (either initially or eventually) going to be held by a minority of players, then the majority of players will *always* be in favor of removing their exclusive status.
So what you've said is: nothing is exclusive. Anything marketed as exclusive is deceptive advertising.
Wow, that has to be one of the worst jobs at making a comparison I have ever seen. A "bonus" and a "brand" name are NOT the same thing. We're NOT talking about BRAND names here, we're talking about a product that comes with a BONUS.
You missed the relevance on two levels.
A brand is a status symbol. In effect the bonuses were a similar status symbol becuase only a few people had them.
Secondly the "brands" of cars I mentioned generally have added features including leather seats, higher performance etc. You could buy a Mini and it would get you from A to B but it wouldnt be in as much luxury or style. Some people bought Lifetimes or Special edition boxes because they had added features & perks. People didnt have to buy them but they did and thus deserve the exclusivity of that purchase.
Comments
Stormshade,
THANK YOU!
THANK YOU!
THANK YOU!
Meh what i'm getting out of this debacle is that lifetimers are now someone you don't give a damn about, after all, you already have their money.
If thats the case, then the feedback itself doesnt really matter at all. The only question would be which decision would make the most money: C-store purchases vs potential cancellations of unhappy people. And TBH, that answer has pretty much been obvious from the start.
That may be true, but this decision was made without any kind of poll. Granted, the one I posted showed the people who supported this vs those that didnt as a 60/40 ratio, but that was after Cryptic had already made the decision.
Once again though, I agree with this decision. I just dont agree with all of the official statements about it. At the end of the day more money = more development power, so theres no need to beat around the bush with that.
Everyone keeps saying they "paid $200 for that item!" and whatnot, completely ignoring the fact that they got something worth at least $200 with that item.
This goes back to how you approached the purchase. The idea of any of these deals is to just put you over the top if you are on the fence about buying whatever it is, not to sell you something you don't want for something you do. For some of you, that was the effect, but that's not the idea.
If they had put the item you wanted in the C-store at the start, and put a price of $50-$200 on it, would people still have bought it? I'm pretty sure there would've been an uproar about how it's just a costume how can it possibly cost $200 etc. etc.
And Cryptic already has the CO lifers money.
You label it properly and yet your upset???
With all due respect, in the future could your marketing people please put something in bold print that explains to customers what they are buying? Do this so they understand they are buying a subscription to a game that comes with a free gift and not a $200 dollar digital doll outfit that comes with a free subscription to a game.
I also hope that Lifetime Subscriptions will not be offered in the C-Store for 1% of what they originally cost. I do not care if you offer the Borg character or not. If people really want to play it, put it up there.
I understand about the LTS being what was paid for and the free stuff was just free stuff. I paid for the LT because I like ST and wanted to be a part of this game for as long as the server is up.
My problem has been the game as a whole. It was missing what would keep me from wanting to continue playing day after day. There was/is so much missing that would make this game great. Ans I agree about Season 2. It can't come soon enough for me. I have stopped playing all together untill Season 2 is live because of the lack of options at the moment. But that is another story for another thread.
Many appreciate the fact that you do listen and react to feedback. Obviously when you do react, some will be upset and some will be happy. That is just the way it is. I do agree with the OP a bit, but the problem may have been the fact that the exclusive items should have been something other than a wanted item from the ST lore. That is why many play STO. They want to be anpart of ST. With the items in the C-store. They will now be able to buy the look they want if it wasn't in the game or a free gift. It is better for the game in the long run to have these items for players to use when they want.
On the other hand, there's another, much clearer, promise that would be very clearly violated by selling the Red Matter Capacitor, TR-116, Automated Defense Battery, droppable phaser turret (Steam), beam weapon power absorber thingy (D2D), and whatever exclusives out there also have gameplay attrbutes. That's the promise not to sell gameplay-affecting items in the C-Store unless they could be acquired through gameplay as well. Examples of actually following that policy are the respecs and now the Borg BOff*
Of course, I also maintain that this is violated by the unique gameplay properties assosciated with the C-store Tellarites, Pakleds, Caitians, Joined Trill, and TOS Constitution light cruiser.
*It's different but the relevant mechanical aspect is "BOff with Borg racial traits".
They could be weighing private feedback received that we don't know about as well. Who knows. I agree in the end it's for the best and the people crying about it haven't really thought about what that item represents, which is basically not a lot. If you did fork out that kind of cash for an exclusive item and not for the game itself...wow...
If by "private feedback" you mean Atari making them do it, your probably right
Hey I wasn't in the room, lol.
... I don't think that word means what you want it to mean in that sentence.
it's not unique if everyone can get it... or indeed, if we're pushing the boundaries, even unique to pre-orders/life-timers.
Semantics, I know.
Tell that to people who buy mercedes, rolls royce, porche, ferrari or people who buy Dolce, Prada etc
Any car can get you from A to B, any set of clothes keeps you warm... you DONT have to buy anything special but perks that come with cars (e.g. Air Con) and brand names are what sells. I dont hear people saying to them "its a bad idea".
These were exactly the sentiments and thoughts I was having. Exclusive does indeed mean "Exclusive" NOT early release that will be available to everyone else in a few months!
Storm,
Being in marketing myself I know how good or bad word of mouth advertising can be. Did your marketing team not learn from the numerous debacles previously? There were many deception/miscommunications (perspective depends on who you talk to) from the Comms team over the last 9 months including CO Lifetime sub availability, mass changes to CO gameplay on day of release after the headstart weekend, late submission to STO beta for those with CO lifetime subs where random public got in before them and a few bad decisions that I can remember specifics.
In light of all this AND from negative feedback from members on this forum about doing this C-store release (either at all or so early into the life of the game) you go ahead and do it anyway. Not only does it show a lack of respect for those who put trust in your marketing advertising and paid money for your "incentives" but it also shows a lack of willingness to listen to the forums. Yes some people wanted the items, others meanwhile thought it was a bad idea. Yet it seems Cryptic just leaps into everything without caring for marketing consequences.
Is this another 'Atari made us do it' situation?
Is it something we should be worried about financially for Cryptic that it needs cash that bad it is willing to alienate a lot of players?
Whilst you are trying to put forward the perspective that no incentives are exclusive (which is NOT how you marketed your product btw) and that people paid for a game with temporary bonuses, I would really like to know were members feeling hard done by because they missed out on early incentives and were likely to quit becuase they couldnt get them OR are members who paid excessive amounts of money to obtain exclusive STO memorabilia now feeling more miffed and more likely to quit or ever trust a Cryptic offer again?
What defines a traditional collector? I would have said someone who obtains rare, limited or out of production memorabilia. I wish I had bought a Van Gogh painting cheap when he was still alive. If I wanted one now it would be impossible to afford. That is generally how exclusivity works. If you go to a Convention or Trade fair for a limited edition item you dont expect that to then go into mass production later in the year. Anyone else see the parallels here?
Its about a business plan and trust and both are being undermined by simple nickle & dime transactions! Please think before making these rash decision and now try to come up with a solution to appease the special edition collectors and CO lifetime sub owners.
Many thanks
No, this has all been hashed and rehashed. The word means exactly what they intended it to mean, and still does: at the time of the offer, it was unique and/or exclusive to those purchasers. The problem is that some people want unique to also mean "forever."
Give me a break...all you guys looked at was the $$$$ like you guys always do.
I was. They totally said the whole point was to TRIBBLE over a bunch of whining teenagers and laugh at them as they lost their minds on the forums.
Or they might've just said that the community was interested in paying money for the items and it would make good business sense to do it. I'm not sure. It was several months ago.
Wow, that has to be one of the worst jobs at making a comparison I have ever seen. A "bonus" and a "brand" name are NOT the same thing. We're NOT talking about BRAND names here, we're talking about a product that comes with a BONUS.
Missed out and unwilling to pay are two different things. Just my opinion, please don't attack me fellow forumers.
You actually have a point. The only item that is currently unavailable from the ones they added was the MU uniform. Everything else is still obtainable through the retailers...I think.
Not forever, just lifetime.
I think you're applying the word unique improperly. The MIrror Universe Uniform is unique. It is the only uniform from the mirror universe. It is one of the most unique uniforms in the game. It has a sash. No other federation uniforms have sashes.
You couldn't be more wrong. We value you all immensely. Not only have you heavily invested in us early, but you also form a core group of players which we need to work just as hard to keep playing as people on recurring subscriptions. If you all leave, we've failed.
Oddly enough, I was just talking to Rekhan, and he was just saying the same thing as you. This is an area where we can improve, and will.
As for Lifetime subscriptions being offered for $2.00... Don't worry, it'll never happen.
To answer questions about where we get our feedback from, there are certainly various different sources. We get feedback from the forums, in-game tickets, e-mails, snail mail (Weird huh?), surveys, other external sources, internal sources. We really like feedback.
In this case, we felt that the players who wanted us to move in this direction was much greater than the number of people who would be upset. So, we decided to go forward in that direction.
This is really similar in quite a few ways to when we implemented a death penalty.
It's a situation where we really can't make everyone happy. This time, without a doubt, many more players are happy with the decision we made to release these items on the C-store.
Unfortunately, this comes at the cost of injured feelings of some other players. It is not our intent to injure the feelings of those of you who are upset. That makes no sense for us to do. It does make sense for us to try to please as much of our player base as we can however. Which is what we always strive to do.
Thanks,
Stormshade
As a person who works in marketing, have you also considered that the ONE thing that has been consistent with this community from the beginning, is that they will find almost ANYTHING to complain and create an uproar about? Let's not forget that there was an uproar not that long ago because some people on the forums could change their names blue. As someone in marketing, I would hope that you would also realize that what was sold was a lifetime subscription to Champions, and the MU uniforms were a bonus. Unless, of course you contend that paying $200 for a uniform seemed reasonable to you. I would hope that someone such as yourself, that works in marketing, would realize the strategy was to get Champions players interested in STO, as a bonus to their lifetime sub.
Finally, I'm sure that someone such as yourself, would NEVER mistake an "Exclusive" piece of art by a dead artist as being comparable to a digital uniform that clearly can be reproduced endlessly. I'm sure you wouldn't suggest that, right?
If you are that confident of Cryptic's deceptive practices then there are some people on the forums demanding compensation that could use your help.
The rest of it is the usual emotional appeal. Nice attempt at positioning it from authority; your lead in of being in Marketing.
So far these types of arguments haven't been successful.
And no to appeasement.
Just out of curiosity, why didnt you have an official poll on this?
The word I highlighted above seems a little odd here. If you did in fact receive alot of feedback(of the types you mentioned above) about this issue, why was it just a feeling rather than knowing?
Again, I agree with this decision, just not all the corporate speak. Clearly this brings more money into the game and that is a good thing; just say that.
THIS. Amazingly well put.
Irony is funny
Whoa, time out here.
The logical conclusion of this is: no exclusive offers, ever. Since exclusive offers are (either initially or eventually) going to be held by a minority of players, then the majority of players will *always* be in favor of removing their exclusive status.
So what you've said is: nothing is exclusive. Anything marketed as exclusive is deceptive advertising.
You missed the relevance on two levels.
A brand is a status symbol. In effect the bonuses were a similar status symbol becuase only a few people had them.
Secondly the "brands" of cars I mentioned generally have added features including leather seats, higher performance etc. You could buy a Mini and it would get you from A to B but it wouldnt be in as much luxury or style. Some people bought Lifetimes or Special edition boxes because they had added features & perks. People didnt have to buy them but they did and thus deserve the exclusivity of that purchase.