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RE: Atari Sale

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    My comment about prices being lowered:
    60 more days free makes the game cheaper. So the $10 price cut isn't the issue, but it's still about people who bought early paying more than those who buy later get a discount.

    My comment about buyers knowing the game will get cheaper:
    Cryptic is lowering the price sooner than expected (by giving free time) But they have to because the game is incomplete, it always was, we knew it was incomplete when we paid full price and only got 30 days gametime. Now that word is getting around about it's condition Cryptic has to lower the prices or sales will hit a wall. I stand by my previous post and as informed buyers we all knew what we were getting.

    My STO in beta comment:
    Beta is pre-release, STO has been released and is therefore not beta. I understand the logic in that...
    But a beta is an incomplete game, released or not, STO is not complete and nobody ever thought it was.

    I'm not defending their methods:
    I stopped payment on my Atari pre-order when it came to light that they falsly advertized on the website, it's clear that Atari and Cryptic are going to use any tricky method they can to make money, that's business. If they lie to you, sue them, but they didn't lie about this. Everyone who pre-ordered did so knowing (or at least should have been smart enough to know) that OB was horribly incomplete and 3 weeks would not be enough timeto fix even a small portion of the bugs. Prices were bound to drop (or free time given to gain new customers) but they already have our money, there's no need for them to give us anything.

    Anyone who pre-ordered did so for their own reasons, ability to tell friends "I beta tested the new Trek game", or to get some special item, or just get a jumpstart on the game so they could be Admiral by the time new players got started. Each of those is still valid and pre-orders got what they paid for, which is more than these new people will be getting. So why souldn't they pay less?

    If there is some aspect of this issue that I'm missing how about filling me in instead of the flaming back and forth that fills probably half the pages of this thread.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Again, it was ORIGINALLY a 5 day limited sale by ONE online outlet (the developing company of the game - NOT EVERY RETAIL OUTLET); yet a few children obviously don't know what th term 'early adopter' means. Please, the next ti me you kids update you PC hardware with the latest, greatest CPU from Intel/AMD; IF a month later you see that Intel/AMD LOWERED the price $100 - $300; PLEASE go to their compant support website and QQ, threten a lawsuit, etc; and see what kind of response you get.

    This whole thing just shows how ridiculous sompeple can get over about at worst, $25.00 not taking into account the pre-order items we received, or th open beta and headstart and initial grace period, etc.

    IMO it's like going to a resturant; ands AFTER eating 99% of what you got servered, saying "Sorry, the food wasn't pallatable, I want a refund."

    No one 'stole' anything from anyone, EVERYONE who had a pre-order and played in the open beta/headstart but came to these forums and complained regarding the limited 5 day offer KNEW the condition of the game first hand, and decided to continue/complete their pre-order purchase (or order from a digital site that DIDN'T allow refunds, yet KNEW up front they were doing so).

    But know, somehow, because Atari decided to try a 5 day promotion, these same peop,le were now either

    stolen from
    evilly 'dupped' by Atari
    slapped in the face
    etc.

    Please - if you hate the direction of the game, the attitude of the Dev team, the fact they are communicating MORE than any other MMO company with A LOT of behind the scenes info, and giving 9and occassionally missing a projected soft patch date, etc. And I love the circular logic some of the QQers now use in regard to new content. For example:

    Dstahl stated the projected date for the first Raidsode was 2/25/10. They found a showstopper bug in QA; and decided to wait and let it test of the PTS (which is late in being implemented because so many people were 'stolen from' or 'duped' that they had to throw the hardware assigned for it into the Live server to handle player load); so it's going to be 2 weeks late - and if you go to the recent maintainence thread, these same people are upset that the PTS is coming online - and the Raidsode (and other changes are going there before Live.

    My point? Can you IMAGINE the QQ and outcry IF the Raidsode had been pushed Live in the state it was in now (going by the Dev posts)? The Forum would have exploded with stuff like:

    "Just goes to show the incompotence level - don't they yest anything?"
    or

    "Way to break the game!"

    or (I'm sure we'd have seen this)

    "What happened to the announced PTS?"

    So, bottom line, no matter how this played out, th Devs and Atari are screwed (oh, and if they go back to a less communicative model - meaning they DON'T announce Live or PTS additions until th release date is 100% certain; we'd then get:

    "I know ehy the Devs are silent, the team has been shifted, and STO's been shafted, and the userbase abandoned."

    Atari/Cryptic is run by human beings and ain't perfect. To somehow expect perfection for 50 cents a day is imo unrealistic. But personally, I'd rather HAVE the level of communication we have now (knowing that announced patch dates can and will be missed, but know what's in the works coming down the pipe) RATHER then an announcement ON the day it hits PTS and/or Live.

    But realize these guys ARE working (and working hard) on getting what they promised o Live, but in the best state they can manage.

    But, if you hate the way they do it - please vote with your wallet, take your money, AND LEAVE and let those of us who still LIKE/ENJOY STO do so in peace.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    My comment about prices being lowered:
    60 more days free makes the game cheaper. So the $10 price cut isn't the issue, but it's still about people who bought early paying more than those who buy later get a discount.

    My comment about buyers knowing the game will get cheaper:
    Cryptic is lowering the price sooner than expected (by giving free time) But they have to because the game is incomplete, it always was, we knew it was incomplete when we paid full price and only got 30 days gametime. Now that word is getting around about it's condition Cryptic has to lower the prices or sales will hit a wall. I stand by my previous post and as informed buyers we all knew what we were getting.

    My STO in beta comment:
    Beta is pre-release, STO has been released and is therefore not beta. I understand the logic in that...
    But a beta is an incomplete game, released or not, STO is not complete and nobody ever thought it was.

    I'm not defending their methods:
    I stopped payment on my Atari pre-order when it came to light that they falsly advertized on the website, it's clear that Atari and Cryptic are going to use any tricky method they can to make money, that's business. If they lie to you, sue them, but they didn't lie about this. Everyone who pre-ordered did so knowing (or at least should have been smart enough to know) that OB was horribly incomplete and 3 weeks would not be enough timeto fix even a small portion of the bugs. Prices were bound to drop (or free time given to gain new customers) but they already have our money, there's no need for them to give us anything.

    Anyone who pre-ordered did so for their own reasons, ability to tell friends "I beta tested the new Trek game", or to get some special item, or just get a jumpstart on the game so they could be Admiral by the time new players got started. Each of those is still valid and pre-orders got what they paid for, which is more than these new people will be getting. So why souldn't they pay less?

    If there is some aspect of this issue that I'm missing how about filling me in instead of the flaming back and forth that fills probably half the pages of this thread.

    Let me try to explain. When Atari made the 60 day free time offer, it created the perception that its current subscriber base isn't as important as adding new ones. The reason for this is that yes, most MMOs drop their prices with in months of launch, Atari did it before the original 30 days free time was up and within 3 weeks from launch. So, the people who have been here and supporting the game during all the server crashes, promises of "We will Fix this and that", submitting bug reports, trying to help support the game feel like Atari/Cryptic doesn't care about them only their money. Also they don't want any new subscribers to feel the same way they do, so we protest. In the only ways available to us. If Atari had waited for 6 months, nobody would have cared. In this market with so many failed MMOs, people upset are wanting the game to succeed but are being give evidence to the contrary by the very people who published it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Just wanted to add that I was extremely disappointed in seeing this sale too myself, but I was not surprised with what I have been tracking regarding the game at retailers. Regardless I am gonna stick around to see if I can help the game improve and get back all those regulars who ultimately decided to leave.

    And before you say it, every subscriber is valuable. ST:O is not WOW, and can't afford to be run on a small community base.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Armsman wrote: »
    Again, it was ORIGINALLY a 5 day limited sale by ONE online outlet (the developing company of the game - NOT EVERY RETAIL OUTLET); yet a few children obviously don't know what th term 'early adopter' means. Please, the next ti me you kids update you PC hardware with the latest, greatest CPU from Intel/AMD; IF a month later you see that Intel/AMD LOWERED the price $100 - $300; PLEASE go to their compant support website and QQ, threten a lawsuit, etc; and see what kind of response you get.

    This whole thing just shows how ridiculous sompeple can get over about at worst, $25.00 not taking into account the pre-order items we received, or th open beta and headstart and initial grace period, etc.

    IMO it's like going to a resturant; ands AFTER eating 99% of what you got servered, saying "Sorry, the food wasn't pallatable, I want a refund."

    No one 'stole' anything from anyone, EVERYONE who had a pre-order and played in the open beta/headstart but came to these forums and complained regarding the limited 5 day offer KNEW the condition of the game first hand, and decided to continue/complete their pre-order purchase (or order from a digital site that DIDN'T allow refunds, yet KNEW up front they were doing so).

    But know, somehow, because Atari decided to try a 5 day promotion, these same peop,le were now either

    stolen from
    evilly 'dupped' by Atari
    slapped in the face
    etc.

    Please - if you hate the direction of the game, the attitude of the Dev team, the fact they are communicating MORE than any other MMO company with A LOT of behind the scenes info, and giving 9and occassionally missing a projected soft patch date, etc. And I love the circular logic some of the QQers now use in regard to new content. For example:

    Dstahl stated the projected date for the first Raidsode was 2/25/10. They found a showstopper bug in QA; and decided to wait and let it test of the PTS (which is late in being implemented because so many people were 'stolen from' or 'duped' that they had to throw the hardware assigned for it into the Live server to handle player load); so it's going to be 2 weeks late - and if you go to the recent maintainence thread, these same people are upset that the PTS is coming online - and the Raidsode (and other changes are going there before Live.

    My point? Can you IMAGINE the QQ and outcry IF the Raidsode had been pushed Live in the state it was in now (going by the Dev posts)? The Forum would have exploded with stuff like:

    "Just goes to show the incompotence level - don't they yest anything?"
    or

    "Way to break the game!"

    or (I'm sure we'd have seen this)

    "What happened to the announced PTS?"

    So, bottom line, no matter how this played out, th Devs and Atari are screwed (oh, and if they go back to a less communicative model - meaning they DON'T announce Live or PTS additions until th release date is 100% certain; we'd then get:

    "I know ehy the Devs are silent, the team has been shifted, and STO's been shafted, and the userbase abandoned."

    Atari/Cryptic is run by human beings and ain't perfect. To somehow expect perfection for 50 cents a day is imo unrealistic. But personally, I'd rather HAVE the level of communication we have now (knowing that announced patch dates can and will be missed, but know what's in the works coming down the pipe) RATHER then an announcement ON the day it hits PTS and/or Live.

    But realize these guys ARE working (and working hard) on getting what they promised o Live, but in the best state they can manage.

    But, if you hate the way they do it - please vote with your wallet, take your money, AND LEAVE and let those of us who still LIKE/ENJOY STO do so in peace.

    What happens if the majority leaves. Then the game will go down the drain FAST. People should address these issues instead of ignoring them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    ookami wrote: »
    That's because you're a treehugger. Back away a bit, friend, I'm just one of many in a forest. You chop down enough of those trees and you don't have a forest anymore.


    Nicely put.....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    That's because you're a treehugger. Back away a bit, friend, I'm just one of many in a forest. You chop down enough of those trees and you don't have a forest anymore.

    Amusing metaphor.

    So, if you're chopping down trees, what do you intend to do with the wood?

    Nah, you're not really chopping it down. You're trying to set it on fire. And not a controlled burn, either.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Those that are still thinking this is a non-issue read this. And for those that are upset by it don't get tired and don't be silent.

    http://www.tentonhammer.com/sto/news/atari_removes_60_day_offer
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Armsman wrote: »
    Again, it was ORIGINALLY a 5 day limited sale by ONE online outlet (the developing company of the game - NOT EVERY RETAIL OUTLET); yet a few children obviously don't know what th term 'early adopter' means. Please, the next ti me you kids update you PC hardware with the latest, greatest CPU from Intel/AMD; IF a month later you see that Intel/AMD LOWERED the price $100 - $300; PLEASE go to their compant support website and QQ, threten a lawsuit, etc; and see what kind of response you get.

    This whole thing just shows how ridiculous sompeple can get over about at worst, $25.00 not taking into account the pre-order items we received, or th open beta and headstart and initial grace period, etc.

    IMO it's like going to a resturant; ands AFTER eating 99% of what you got servered, saying "Sorry, the food wasn't pallatable, I want a refund."

    No one 'stole' anything from anyone, EVERYONE who had a pre-order and played in the open beta/headstart but came to these forums and complained regarding the limited 5 day offer KNEW the condition of the game first hand, and decided to continue/complete their pre-order purchase (or order from a digital site that DIDN'T allow refunds, yet KNEW up front they were doing so).

    But know, somehow, because Atari decided to try a 5 day promotion, these same peop,le were now either

    stolen from
    evilly 'dupped' by Atari
    slapped in the face
    etc.

    Please - if you hate the direction of the game, the attitude of the Dev team, the fact they are communicating MORE than any other MMO company with A LOT of behind the scenes info, and giving 9and occassionally missing a projected soft patch date, etc. And I love the circular logic some of the QQers now use in regard to new content. For example:

    Dstahl stated the projected date for the first Raidsode was 2/25/10. They found a showstopper bug in QA; and decided to wait and let it test of the PTS (which is late in being implemented because so many people were 'stolen from' or 'duped' that they had to throw the hardware assigned for it into the Live server to handle player load); so it's going to be 2 weeks late - and if you go to the recent maintainence thread, these same people are upset that the PTS is coming online - and the Raidsode (and other changes are going there before Live.

    My point? Can you IMAGINE the QQ and outcry IF the Raidsode had been pushed Live in the state it was in now (going by the Dev posts)? The Forum would have exploded with stuff like:

    "Just goes to show the incompotence level - don't they yest anything?"
    or

    "Way to break the game!"

    or (I'm sure we'd have seen this)

    "What happened to the announced PTS?"

    So, bottom line, no matter how this played out, th Devs and Atari are screwed (oh, and if they go back to a less communicative model - meaning they DON'T announce Live or PTS additions until th release date is 100% certain; we'd then get:

    "I know ehy the Devs are silent, the team has been shifted, and STO's been shafted, and the userbase abandoned."

    Atari/Cryptic is run by human beings and ain't perfect. To somehow expect perfection for 50 cents a day is imo unrealistic. But personally, I'd rather HAVE the level of communication we have now (knowing that announced patch dates can and will be missed, but know what's in the works coming down the pipe) RATHER then an announcement ON the day it hits PTS and/or Live.

    But realize these guys ARE working (and working hard) on getting what they promised o Live, but in the best state they can manage.

    But, if you hate the way they do it - please vote with your wallet, take your money, AND LEAVE and let those of us who still LIKE/ENJOY STO do so in peace.

    Too Long Didn't Read! I actual lied, I did read it...... No comment, Some people will never "Get It"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    What happens if the majority leaves. Then the game will go down the drain FAST. People should address these issues instead of ignoring them.

    You realize some of the people here don't want the issue to be resolved - they want the company to be destroyed.

    Some people just hate for the sake of hate, and are more interested in finding problems than solving them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    CobraA1 wrote: »
    You realize some of the people here don't want the issue to be resolved - they want the company to be destroyed.

    Some people just hate for the sake of hate, and are more interested in finding problems than solving them.

    Ok, I accept your premise but can you tell the difference between the two?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Those that are still thinking this is a non-issue read this.

    I agree it's an issue.

    I disagree that the "right" way to fix it is to shut down the company and the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    funniest thing I have read all week:

    MMORPG.com:How do you, as developers, decide what to act on in terms of beta feedback and what not to?

    Daniel Stahl: The team doesn't make knee-jerk reactions just because a player has feedback on something. Instead we read the discussions and look at our designs to determine if there needs to be changes based on what the players are saying. When we look closely we often find common themes surfacing across multiple discussions. Instead of taking each bit of feedback as a bug, we look at the cause and implication of what needs to be dealt with and act appropriately.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Armsman wrote: »
    yet a few children obviously don't know (...)

    next ti me you kids (...)

    QQ (...)

    how ridiculous sompeple can get over (...)

    And I love the circular logic some of the QQers now use (...)

    the QQ and outcry (...)

    Is this fan trolling?

    And some people wonder why complaint threads go on for pages and pages and pages? Stop adding fuel to the flames. Attacking people gets us no where. Defend Atari/Cryptic marketing if you like, but please don't attack others.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    funniest thing I have read all week:

    MMORPG.com:How do you, as developers, decide what to act on in terms of beta feedback and what not to?

    Daniel Stahl: The team doesn't make knee-jerk reactions just because a player has feedback on something. Instead we read the discussions and look at our designs to determine if there needs to be changes based on what the players are saying. When we look closely we often find common themes surfacing across multiple discussions. Instead of taking each bit of feedback as a bug, we look at the cause and implication of what needs to be dealt with and act appropriately.

    *pulls Jedi mind trick* ... "these are not the bugs you're looking for" ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Found it:
    /10char
    G4: Speaking of it being successful, when you’re launching an MMO, like how many subscribers do you need in order to survive or thrive?

    JE: Well, I think that number is the number for success is over 100,000 for us. If it’s over 100,000, I’m skipping the light fantastic. The break-even point is somewhere below 100,000. And that’s obviously depending upon – every MMO is different – depending on how much money is spent on it. But, clearly, we mark 100,000 as success.

    dammit wrong post lol
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Someone needs to tell him the phrase is "TRIPPING the light fantastic".

    :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    funniest thing I have read all week:

    MMORPG.com:How do you, as developers, decide what to act on in terms of beta feedback and what not to?

    Daniel Stahl: The team doesn't make knee-jerk reactions just because a player has feedback on something. Instead we read the discussions and look at our designs to determine if there needs to be changes based on what the players are saying. When we look closely we often find common themes surfacing across multiple discussions. Instead of taking each bit of feedback as a bug, we look at the cause and implication of what needs to be dealt with and act appropriately.

    Its just good business.......
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    funniest thing I have read all week:

    I get it. The game revolves around you, and they have to respond immediately to every concern you have, without thinking, and if they do it wrong, you'll hate them for not thinking about it.

    I actually think that thinking about stuff is a good policy, but hey, that's just my opinion.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    CobraA1 wrote: »
    You realize some of the people here don't want the issue to be resolved - they want the company to be destroyed.

    Some people just hate for the sake of hate, and are more interested in finding problems than solving them.

    Who???

    Did you checked our posts BEFORE this weekend? Our suggestions? Our participation?
    When a player who's contributing feels like he is less important than a new one this happens.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    CobraA1 wrote: »
    I get it. The game revolves around you, and they have to respond immediately to every concern you have, without thinking, and if they do it wrong, you'll hate them for not thinking about it.

    And in rushes Capt. Hyperbole to the rescue!! Stoking the flames of discontent and getting cheers from fanbois everywhere!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    CobraA1 wrote: »
    You realize some of the people here don't want the issue to be resolved - they want the company to be destroyed.

    Some people just hate for the sake of hate, and are more interested in finding problems than solving them.

    and some ppl love for the sake of loving and will never saee the wrong this company does.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    CobraA1 wrote: »
    I get it. The game revolves around you, and they have to respond immediately to every concern you have, without thinking, and if they do it wrong, you'll hate them for not thinking about it.

    I actually think that thinking about stuff is a good policy, but hey, that's just my opinion.

    I don't know what specifically he found funny about it. But for me, I found it funny that they're not trying to fix all bugs in their database of bugs. Instead they're just fixing/changes things with general, repeated themes on the forums. So that quest typo one person reported won't get fixed for a long time, and that UI quirk someone else reported won't get fixed because there is no flock of people complaining about it. :rolleyes:

    But that's just my assumptions from the out-of-context Q&A. I don't know how Cryptic is handling bug reports/fixes.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Did you checked our posts BEFORE this weekend? Our suggestions? Our participation?

    Did you check the latest "State of the Game" statement?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    CobraA1 wrote: »
    Did you check the latest "State of the Game" statement?

    I read it, but I didn't 'get it', apparently.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    CobraA1 wrote: »
    Did you check the latest "State of the Game" statement?

    The one BEFORE that uproar? Before the Atari/Cryptic movement? Yes I did.

    And i still think I don't get it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    and some ppl love for the sake of loving and will never saee the wrong this company does.

    Yup, the company made a mistake. Not gonna deny it.
    But for me, I found it funny that they're not trying to fix all bugs in their database of bugs.

    You mean like this one?

    Oh, snap, they actually plan on fixing it. Nevermind, you didn't see that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    CobraA1 wrote: »
    Yup, the company made a mistake. Not gonna deny it.



    You mean like this one?

    Oh, snap, they actually plan on fixing it. Nevermind, you didn't see that.

    Oh that pip bug.

    That has only been around since, what?

    Closed Beta?

    "Oh snap!"

    :eek:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    The one BEFORE that uproar? Before the Atari/Cryptic movement? Yes I did.

    Okay, cool.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Oh that pip bug.

    That has only been around since, what?

    Closed Beta?

    "Oh snap!"

    The bug or the bug report?
This discussion has been closed.