Giving new clients a longer free period, within a month of the game opening, than the clients who bought the game at launch, is bad customer service.
Giving new clients a longer free period to adjust to the changes, improvements and bug fixes than the people who have been living through them since the start is bad customer service.
P.S. I'm a lifer and this "sale" does not affect me, but it affects the original players who I respect for what they have been through and the support they have given your companies and the game I love.
agree fully with what he said i too am a lifetime subber and also feel the same way this may not be SOE/NGE but it does kinda feel that way
A little disingenuous to close the thread that had already been stickied and made 'unofficially official' to make a new one, especially since you unstickied the other one that had nearly 80,000 views and 3000+ posts.. almost seems like you wanted to bury that one 'under the carpet' so to speak, open a new one and hope it gets less responses so the 'officlal' stickied thread doesnt look as bad ?
Everything that had to be said was said in the original thread that IndigoFyre endorsed here.
Oh well, In case that one gets buried, we just have to take this one back to 3061 posts, won't we?
As an early adopter of Star Trek Online, from the purchase of a lifetime subscription of Champions online for the beta access, right through to a life time subscription of Star Trek Online before launch I have been a staunch supporter of this game, despite it's flaws. No MMO is without flaws however, that is just life.
The recent drop in price, and large increase of free in game time however is a bitter pill to swallow to us early adopters. Will anything be done for us early adopters to perhaps say "Thank you"? I doubt it. For some reason while I feel Cryptic honestly wants to do the best they can, the Marketing department is making a mess as all marketing deparments usually do (this comes from an ex Mythic employee, believe me I know the mess that can be made).
The forums have become quagmires of hatred at this point, Cryptics supporters are few and far between.
All I ask is for something to be said or done for those of us who have supported Cryptic since the get go, as right now we do feel a bit hard done by. I don't expect much of a response back on here to be honest, bar the usual cut and paste reply, but if on the off chance someone reads this, and decides to reply back, or bump it up the line, thank you for reading this.
And got back...
Thank you for your feedback! This MMORPG is a living and evolving experience. As such, the Game will continue to change as we implement and polish new features, which are a key in the continuing development of a dynamic play environment. If you wish to discuss your feedback with the game community, we encourage you to do so on the official forums (which you can reach through the community link on the launcher). We appreciate your feedback and thank you for playing!
I really didn't expect much back. Still a thank you wouldn't hurt.
As I've said before, I don't feel bad for the lifers that don't like the game. Tip, never drop over $200 for a game you've never played.
However, I do feel ripped off by the Atari sale. I bought the game on day one and don't mind the premium on the game itself, but by both dropping the price and providing 90 of free play over the normal 30 essentially drops the price by $40.
The other thing that concerns me about this move is it makes me feel that Atari doesn't see much value in this venture and they are trying to make as much money from it as possible while they still can.
While I think your comment about the "lifers" shows a lack of compassion and probably didn't need to be said.
So, of course they're going to try and snatch up every cent they can from this game and unfortunately it seems they're going to do so at the expense of the customer's happiness.
It's not bad customer service just because a costumer doesn't get his/her way. This whole thing has been blown way out of proportion and is only being amplified at this point for a few people who think they might be able to get free stuff.
Stuff goes on sale all the time. It happens. It isn't a reason for QQ.
A little disingenuous to close the thread that had already been stickied and made 'unofficially official' to make a new one, especially since you unstickied the other one that had nearly 80,000 views and 3000+ posts.. almost seems like you wanted to bury that one 'under the carpet' so to speak, open a new one and hope it gets less responses so the 'officlal' stickied thread doesnt look as bad ?
Everything that had to be said was said in the original thread that IndigoFyre endorsed here.
And more importantly changed the title to something a little less recognizable than the original Sticky. I was kind of on the fence until that move, in the least it seems deceptive ,and at worst a blatant attempt to confuse the masses.
As I've said before, I don't feel bad for the lifers that don't like the game. Tip, never drop over $200 for a game you've never played.
However, I do feel ripped off by the Atari sale. I bought the game on day one and don't mind the premium on the game itself, but by both dropping the price and providing 90 of free play over the normal 30 essentially drops the price by $40.
The other thing that concerns me about this move is it makes me feel that Atari doesn't see much value in this venture and they are trying to make as much money from it as possible while they still can.
That's the real problem I have with all of this. I'm concerned about the future of the game, like it won't last. People with LTS should probably be the most concerned about this move. Glad I didn't get it.
A little disingenuous to close the thread that had already been stickied and made 'unofficially official' to make a new one, especially since you unstickied the other one that had nearly 80,000 views and 3000+ posts.. almost seems like you wanted to bury that one 'under the carpet' so to speak, open a new one and hope it gets less responses so the 'officlal' stickied thread doesnt look as bad ?
Everything that had to be said was said in the original thread that IndigoFyre endorsed here.
This can't be repeated enough. Everything that needed to be said has been said.
Regardless of actual intent, the perception is going to be that Cryptic swept a large thread of discontent under the rug in order to hide consumer discontent.
Add this to the complete bungling of the issue in the first place, top it with the LTS fiasco, and Cryptic looks like a company on the verge of Flagshipping.
I really see this coming down to two options. We can either 1) all come to a 100% agreement as to exactly how much time must pass before a company is allowed to discount a product without fear of irritating a single existing customer, or 2) just deal with it because sugar happens.
At what point in time are the discounts not going to bother anyone? If this offer came a month from now, would you still be asking for 60 additional free days? How about two months from now? Three? Six? And if 6 months is acceptable to you, but someone else bought the game at an non-discounted price 2 weeks prior to that 6 month date, are we still allowed to rage? Because what would make their situation any less valid than yours right now? When exactly is the universal "I'm ok with that" point for everyone?
I'm also seeing people threatening charge-backs? As someone who used to work for MasterCard International, I recommend against it. Your bank may decide to eat the chargeback ... but they're under no legal obligation to do so, and under no obligation from the credit card associations (MasterCard, Visa, etc) to do so.
What almost nobody seems to know is that way the heck back in the early 1980s, the software industry lobbied Congress for, and got, a blanket exemption to the Uniform Commercial Code for all computer software. Computer software is the one product where you are not legally entitled to a product that performs substantially as advertised. You say they promised you one thing and delivered another? Cry moar. It's not like you're the first person in the history of the computer industry to have a software company do this to you, and it's entirely legal.
Nor would it matter, in this case, if software were covered under the UCC, because there's nothing in US law, not in the Uniform Commercial Code nor anywhere else, protecting you against later price cuts. Nothing. Not one thing.
One last thing: to those of you claiming that "75% of us agree!"? 75% of whom? 75% of the forum posters? Forum cabals are always made up of a tiny, tiny percentage of the players of any MMO. And they're almost always the most complaining, least satisfied subscribers. It should go without saying (but apparently doesn't) that the people who have no problem with the game and who are enjoying it are too busy playing the game to waste their time reading, let alone commenting on, 307 page forum threads whining about the fact that Atari just made it even easier and cheaper for their friends to come play with them.
well said...the best part is cryptic likely is aware of this to. I still feel a minor kick back would be warranted, cuz the sale/promo is rather soon after retail release...like a couple free weeks of game time or something, but i have no problem with the promo
more subs = more money = more development = better game = happy me
What I find amusing is that the post is called "Atari Sale" while in the Atari web we can read this:
Technical, In-game support and Beta Access questions for Star Trek Online is handled by the Cryptic Studios Support Team. You can contact the Cryptic Studios Support Team by using the following link: http://www.startrekonline.com/support
I loved it when I first started playing!! STO couldnt do no wrong!
But I am sad to say, after a few weeks I hit the level cap, found out there isn't anything to do and that kind bugged me. But I still logged in to play just to fly around in my own Starship, do some crafting and help people out!
But as those short 3 weeks passed I have come to realize that these companies have made a LOT of mistakes. I was ok with waiting for content; I was even ok with the price drop. But when I saw that post about Atari giving new players 60 (or 90 not 100% confirmed) free play time just blew my mind!
I then started to really worry to what was happing to a game I longed for, for so long! You just don't see a company make that rash of a business decision like this only after 3 weeks! And to add salt to the wound, they left the current customers in the dust! I personally have never experience that type of customer service in any MMO I have ever played!
Here's to hoping that these companies come out with an official comment today that a lot of us are hoping to hear. If not, then it's the biggest chicken sh*t thing I have seen from a MMO developer.
It is confirmed that they get 90 days total free time. When you purchase the standard or CE DVD version from Atari, your receipt has a 60-day game time code on it. The ad says they will e-mail it to you, but they don't. Thankfully you can pull your receipt back up in their system and get it.
When the box copy arrives, it has a key in it that gives you the 30 day trial.
This is indeed 60 EXTRA days... even though Cryptic's GM's don't even know that.
Closing all threads into one...then closing the one...
Not covering anything up are you?
Indigo even had it stickied....where did it go?
OOOOO you set it where threads go to die.
just wow...
Indigo even promised us all that it would stay sticky until we got ANSWERS! Here is the quote, which currently can be found here
You all wound me
You have no faith in me getting your views heard just because I don't want an ocean of threads all on one topic?
When have I ever been anything less then your pal?
So here, to show you all I mean business I am going to STICKY this thread.
Now it wont leave the top of the page until the question gets answered.
No faith ... *sigh*
What is the first rule about Space Dragons?
He told us it wouldn't leave the top of the page until the answer came. The answer has not come.
You know... I feel bad for this guy. With the PM's that were posted earlier in the thread and this ... he might be looking at getting fired today by some executive at Cryptic or Atari who wants to blame somebody and is too stupid to go find a mirror.
It is amazing at the speed in which a few dishonest moves can turn a loyal supporter into a raving hater.
I HOPE STO fails now because of this.
Cryptic/Atari should have a black mark on their record that neither will ever make a profitable game again.
I want the genius' behind these decisions to say 2 years from now when both companies are no more...hmmm perhaps we shouldn't have tried to cover it all up and just made it right instead.
But they've asked us to say it again. I'll be more than happy to oblige. If there's two threads with over 3000 posts, that's even harder to ignore than one. Plus, they can monitor this one as it grows, ensuring that they have only the most succinct and well-worded posts to upper management, assuming that's their intent.
It is confirmed that they get 90 days total free time. When you purchase the standard or CE DVD version from Atari, your receipt has a 60-day game time code on it. The ad says they will e-mail it to you, but they don't. Thankfully you can pull your receipt back up in their system and get it.
When the box copy arrives, it has a key in it that gives you the 30 day trial.
This is indeed 60 EXTRA days... even though Cryptic's GM's don't even know that.
Indigo even promised us all that it would stay sticky until we got ANSWERS! Here is the quote, which currently can be found here
He told us it wouldn't leave the top of the page until the answer came. The answer has not come.
You know... I feel bad for this guy. With the PM's that were posted earlier in the thread and this ... he might be looking at getting fired today by some executive at Cryptic or Atari who wants to blame somebody and is too stupid to go find a mirror.
INDIGO...
I do not blame you.
But you should know your bosses are all Grade A morons...
You tried to make it better and were making progress.
Look, Cryptic/Atari can sell their product anyway they want. Personally, I don't care about the $10. Heck, Amazon gave me $10 off my next game for my preorder, so that's a wash.
However, with this new offer with 60 extras days, it says several things:
1 - we think our preorder/release day customers are chumps and/or don't care about giving them the same value as new customers less than 30 days later. Despite the fact these are potentially our most loyal customers. Cryptic/Atari has no obligation to them, and with no obligation, decided to treat them pretty lowly.
2 - 60 days extra time suggests the game is doing very badly. Pretty much makes anyone who was going to sub after the first 30 days question (as they should) if its worth it.
3 - Makes it seem like Atari is making a cash grab with a firesale, and has no interest in the long term viability of the product. If the top people don't care about the game, what confidence should the players have?
And, all this coming on the heels of hubris filled SotG letter stating things like players "not getting it" and generally not acknowledging valid criticism of the game's shortcomings.
Much of the ire is well-deserved(most is not). Many people bought the game on pre-order and some in the three weeks before release. Sure, sales happen, etc. but who would rightly expect that much of a sale three weeks after the game came out? It is disrespect to all the existing customers. I have lifetime subscription but I still can feel flagrant(so much it's nearly tangible) disrespect for the rest of the players and I sympathize. It's not 15 days it's *60*. It's basically getting the game free with the normal edition.
So they closed the official first thread.
An attempt to hide the amount of posts , watch as it slips off the first page.
Shameful !
You are a disgrace Cryptic!
Did they hide it? No. Did they deny it? No. They just made a cleaner place to post. Most people will look for the GM/Dev's topics before one starting with a random post by a random guy asking to PM spam the developers.
Phoxe. This post, and the cloising of the uber thread are my cause to leave. We wanted answers, you fobbed us off into this minor thread. Great customer service there, great indeed!
I don't know if the main people at Cryptic knew about the plan on Atari's part to place this 'sale' on the STO game. But it seriously hurts Cryptic's image to have it happen not even a month after release, without giving compensatory time to those of us who pre-ordered the game. It would, in my opinion at least, be a good idea to quickly decide if an additional 60 days of free play time to those who pre-ordered is something that should be done. Needless to say quite a few of us pre-order players feel it would be a good thing to recieve equal free time to these late coming people.
I personally don't mind the price drop, and wouldn't want a refund of $10. But I do find, that having pre-ordered, I am not happy that a certain segment of the player base will come in with 90 days of free play time compared to the 30 I recieved with pre-ordering. It may very well be that Atari is trying to soak money from new sales on the game software at Cryptic's expense; and if so it's a very low blow against those of us who pre-ordered and are sticking with the game through the good and bad.
I'm pretty sure it wasn't something that came out of Cryptic's marketing people, but if so they need a good slap upside the head for stupidity. This particular issue is causing quite a stink of the forums, and has reached a number of respected gaming news sites. Hopefully Cryptic will work out a way to curb the rage and quickly.
Thank You
(Copy end)
Now, unlike a lot of people, I see where this is likely NOT Cryptic's fault. They are at the mercy of Atari, their owner, and publisher. Atari is running the sale on the Standard and DDE editions, Atari is giving the extra 60 days of free play time to Standard and CE edition purchases before a set date (in the next 1-10 days), and Atari is only obliged to notify Cryptic if contractually bound too. This stinks of the typical Atari and EA 'I'm a big publisher, I'll do what I want, and TRIBBLE your (the developer) customers because we want more money' tactics.
It's very uncool of Atari to pull a sale such as this before the 30 free days of retail key included play are even up. Suddenly those of us who have purchased (either pre-order or not) are being slapped by Atari for having purchased before they ran the sale. This is the crux of the issue, a blatant disregard for those of us who have already paid our full price for the game and recieved 30 days of free play before pay time. Suddenly there is an option for people who waited a few weeks after release to suddenly get triple the free play time, and that really ticks off a lot of us who not only beta tested (and reported a huge amount of bugs), but also dealt with the hick-up headstart with it's major issues, and we haven't even heard one word on what may be done to fix this problem.
Personally, I think everyone that pre-ordered should have 60 days of free play time added automatically to their account. We put in the time, annoyance, the beating our heads against walls with the OB bugs, and the Headstart bugs. So why not give those of us who have put our money out already and shown some dedication an equal compensation to those that Atari is basically giving 3 months of free play time to?
Truthfully, I don't think most people really care about the price drop on the DDE and Standard Editions that Atari is doing. I know I don't want a $10 refund. But the 60 free days issue, that needs fixed and before the majority of us pre-order people get charged for the next month (most will be charged tomorrow or within the next few days).
Comments
agree fully with what he said i too am a lifetime subber and also feel the same way this may not be SOE/NGE but it does kinda feel that way
Oh well, In case that one gets buried, we just have to take this one back to 3061 posts, won't we?
And got back...
I really didn't expect much back. Still a thank you wouldn't hurt.
While I think your comment about the "lifers" shows a lack of compassion and probably didn't need to be said.
I agree with the rest of your post. Atari has been losing revenue consistently for quite a while now and presented a loss in their last quarter as well with all their hopes riding on this game. http://corporate.atari.com/infogramesgb/2010/02/atari_9month_revenues_for_fy_2.php
So, of course they're going to try and snatch up every cent they can from this game and unfortunately it seems they're going to do so at the expense of the customer's happiness.
They all went to the airport and have taken a airplane to bahamas or jamaica...and have a great time with our money for the rest of their lives?
Just my conspiracy theorie.
I feel like it's the truth. ._.
Give us 60 Days or at least 30 days free play time.
Come on.
Don't look now, but your bridge is showing.
The more I see, the more I am convinced that Cryptic is becoming the living embodiment of George Carlins "Customer Service" bit.
And more importantly changed the title to something a little less recognizable than the original Sticky. I was kind of on the fence until that move, in the least it seems deceptive ,and at worst a blatant attempt to confuse the masses.
That's the real problem I have with all of this. I'm concerned about the future of the game, like it won't last. People with LTS should probably be the most concerned about this move. Glad I didn't get it.
This can't be repeated enough. Everything that needed to be said has been said.
Most of my thoughts on the matter were in the first thread, but that one didn't gain enough traction. In any case, this link cannot be posted enough: http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=128573
Add this to the complete bungling of the issue in the first place, top it with the LTS fiasco, and Cryptic looks like a company on the verge of Flagshipping.
/golfclap
At what point in time are the discounts not going to bother anyone? If this offer came a month from now, would you still be asking for 60 additional free days? How about two months from now? Three? Six? And if 6 months is acceptable to you, but someone else bought the game at an non-discounted price 2 weeks prior to that 6 month date, are we still allowed to rage? Because what would make their situation any less valid than yours right now? When exactly is the universal "I'm ok with that" point for everyone?
Well it was only till February 28th.
well said...the best part is cryptic likely is aware of this to. I still feel a minor kick back would be warranted, cuz the sale/promo is rather soon after retail release...like a couple free weeks of game time or something, but i have no problem with the promo
more subs = more money = more development = better game = happy me
Source here -> http://www.atari.com/support
It is confirmed that they get 90 days total free time. When you purchase the standard or CE DVD version from Atari, your receipt has a 60-day game time code on it. The ad says they will e-mail it to you, but they don't. Thankfully you can pull your receipt back up in their system and get it.
When the box copy arrives, it has a key in it that gives you the 30 day trial.
This is indeed 60 EXTRA days... even though Cryptic's GM's don't even know that.
Indigo even promised us all that it would stay sticky until we got ANSWERS! Here is the quote, which currently can be found here
He told us it wouldn't leave the top of the page until the answer came. The answer has not come.
You know... I feel bad for this guy. With the PM's that were posted earlier in the thread and this ... he might be looking at getting fired today by some executive at Cryptic or Atari who wants to blame somebody and is too stupid to go find a mirror.
I HOPE STO fails now because of this.
Cryptic/Atari should have a black mark on their record that neither will ever make a profitable game again.
I want the genius' behind these decisions to say 2 years from now when both companies are no more...hmmm perhaps we shouldn't have tried to cover it all up and just made it right instead.
But they've asked us to say it again. I'll be more than happy to oblige. If there's two threads with over 3000 posts, that's even harder to ignore than one. Plus, they can monitor this one as it grows, ensuring that they have only the most succinct and well-worded posts to upper management, assuming that's their intent.
<OLD MESSAGE>
Is it just me or did they remove the offer from the front page? Can't find anything on the Atari site either.
In that case I have a feeling someone over there heard you yelling....
</OLD MESSAGE>
INDIGO...
I do not blame you.
But you should know your bosses are all Grade A morons...
You tried to make it better and were making progress.
They just threw a can of marbles into a blender.
Considering that this is not a technical, in-game support or beta access issue, I fail to see your point.
This is an issue with a sale on Atari's own store, which is none of the things that they suggest should be directed to Cryptic.
However, with this new offer with 60 extras days, it says several things:
1 - we think our preorder/release day customers are chumps and/or don't care about giving them the same value as new customers less than 30 days later. Despite the fact these are potentially our most loyal customers. Cryptic/Atari has no obligation to them, and with no obligation, decided to treat them pretty lowly.
2 - 60 days extra time suggests the game is doing very badly. Pretty much makes anyone who was going to sub after the first 30 days question (as they should) if its worth it.
3 - Makes it seem like Atari is making a cash grab with a firesale, and has no interest in the long term viability of the product. If the top people don't care about the game, what confidence should the players have?
And, all this coming on the heels of hubris filled SotG letter stating things like players "not getting it" and generally not acknowledging valid criticism of the game's shortcomings.
Nope, it's still there
Did they hide it? No. Did they deny it? No. They just made a cleaner place to post. Most people will look for the GM/Dev's topics before one starting with a random post by a random guy asking to PM spam the developers.
Hello PR/Marketing/Dev of Cryptic,
I don't know if the main people at Cryptic knew about the plan on Atari's part to place this 'sale' on the STO game. But it seriously hurts Cryptic's image to have it happen not even a month after release, without giving compensatory time to those of us who pre-ordered the game. It would, in my opinion at least, be a good idea to quickly decide if an additional 60 days of free play time to those who pre-ordered is something that should be done. Needless to say quite a few of us pre-order players feel it would be a good thing to recieve equal free time to these late coming people.
I personally don't mind the price drop, and wouldn't want a refund of $10. But I do find, that having pre-ordered, I am not happy that a certain segment of the player base will come in with 90 days of free play time compared to the 30 I recieved with pre-ordering. It may very well be that Atari is trying to soak money from new sales on the game software at Cryptic's expense; and if so it's a very low blow against those of us who pre-ordered and are sticking with the game through the good and bad.
I'm pretty sure it wasn't something that came out of Cryptic's marketing people, but if so they need a good slap upside the head for stupidity. This particular issue is causing quite a stink of the forums, and has reached a number of respected gaming news sites. Hopefully Cryptic will work out a way to curb the rage and quickly.
Thank You
(Copy end)
Now, unlike a lot of people, I see where this is likely NOT Cryptic's fault. They are at the mercy of Atari, their owner, and publisher. Atari is running the sale on the Standard and DDE editions, Atari is giving the extra 60 days of free play time to Standard and CE edition purchases before a set date (in the next 1-10 days), and Atari is only obliged to notify Cryptic if contractually bound too. This stinks of the typical Atari and EA 'I'm a big publisher, I'll do what I want, and TRIBBLE your (the developer) customers because we want more money' tactics.
It's very uncool of Atari to pull a sale such as this before the 30 free days of retail key included play are even up. Suddenly those of us who have purchased (either pre-order or not) are being slapped by Atari for having purchased before they ran the sale. This is the crux of the issue, a blatant disregard for those of us who have already paid our full price for the game and recieved 30 days of free play before pay time. Suddenly there is an option for people who waited a few weeks after release to suddenly get triple the free play time, and that really ticks off a lot of us who not only beta tested (and reported a huge amount of bugs), but also dealt with the hick-up headstart with it's major issues, and we haven't even heard one word on what may be done to fix this problem.
Personally, I think everyone that pre-ordered should have 60 days of free play time added automatically to their account. We put in the time, annoyance, the beating our heads against walls with the OB bugs, and the Headstart bugs. So why not give those of us who have put our money out already and shown some dedication an equal compensation to those that Atari is basically giving 3 months of free play time to?
Truthfully, I don't think most people really care about the price drop on the DDE and Standard Editions that Atari is doing. I know I don't want a $10 refund. But the 60 free days issue, that needs fixed and before the majority of us pre-order people get charged for the next month (most will be charged tomorrow or within the next few days).
My bad, forgot to put the two important lines :P
But well, I followed the links and it gives me a 404 error so...
Atari can't keep from failing.
On the main page of www,atari,com on the Star Trek advert it says EXPANDED CONTENT AVAILABLE NOW!!!
No it isn't... I checked... no patch for me.