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RE: Atari Sale

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    It's time for Cryptic to take some notes from the Arenanet team and start rewarding the players that put up with the state of the game so far and have stuck around. Aion is giving out rewards based on how long you've been subscribed, these are just in game items but it's enough to let me know the arenanet team values my support of their game as opposed to what Cryptic has done here.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    What are you going to do for lifetime subscribers?

    What are you going to do for existing subscribers?

    What are you going to do for new subscribers?

    The number of trial accounts coupled with the disjointed relationship you have the community really isn't doing anyone any favors right now.

    Offering 90 days of "free" playtime which you existing player base is paying for without any consideration for how they would feel about it less than a month into live is in such bad taste that regardless of what you do it cannot be made right.

    What content is there in game or in the pipe that would sustain ANY player within the 90 day free period and more importantly how do you keep them interested after that period?

    This action can only be construed as a death knell for this title with its only goal being to offload physical media at the expense of an evolving online community.

    How in all sincerity did you expect the community to react?

    How much content does zero income buy for a lifetime or current subscriber?

    We come here looking for answers and are banned and silenced, pushing our commentary and questions to other portals that you do not control.

    How is this a good move for the health of our community?

    How are other distribution channels reacting to Atari's behavior; how will this effect sales in other verticals, how do they compete or standby their own customer base?

    Honestly what's next have you guys already sold out to SOE station pass or does that bombshell come next week?

    I'm trying really hard to keep the faith in the development but honestly what are you guys doing?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Atari giving the free time with the boxed units wasn't Cryptic's decision. They are trying to find a solution, stop blaming them for what the publisher is doing.

    It sucks, I am ****ed at Atari too, I am just saying that everyone is biting the only hand that could feed them here.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Kanharn wrote: »
    I for one really don't care that the game has been made cheaper, that's how all computer game company's work.

    The issue I have is the extra 30 days you are giving away now with the purchase of a game.

    I have been playing since head start and never complained once about all the unexpected down time and issues we had.

    I feel if anything we should get some free time or in game promotion to make up for this and our dedication to the game.

    That is the main point that most people are angry over... and I believe it's 60 EXTRA days.

    That is also why I feel this new thread title is misrepresenting the issue.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Kinda stinks that the big thread got closed...Indigofire started deleting all the others and left that open...which I thought made it the official version. Did somebody not want it to reach 100,000 views and make internet gaming news or something! More conspiracies! :eek:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    humanity never ceases to amaze me..... Of all the things you all, namely the ones crying that they didnt get a XXday free trial, 30, 60 whatever. Wow, of all the things you are crying about you cry over this? ill have you know i preordered this game "collectors edition" way back in like early december. Mainly because i wanted the classic enterprise style ship. as far as a free trail, most of you complaining clowns were playing the freaking beta for free to begin with, you had your free trial you tool bags, yeah im talking to most of you senior members who have been complaining with your top level endgame admiral characters, crying because you have to pay to play. 3 threads you have gone on and on about how they are advertising cheaper software sales and free trials, and all you have to say is i feel cheated and im quitting. All i have to say to you is GOOD get OUT i dont want you here eating bandwidth im paying to use, when you could complain about something useful such as the crazy merit cost to rename a BO, or the absurd prices of some wares on the exchange, lack of efficient mule characters (only get 3 character slots, 2 until you reach LTjc 6). those examples are just off the top of my head.

    crying over trials and such, i didnt get to play beta because i didnt know about this game when the beta was available. nor did i get a trial. do i care not really, i feel cryptic /atari's move to offer such a thing is a good thing because it replaces the tools who after their tears shorted out their brains canceled their accounts, made good room for the new people who will be playing with said trials and enjoying the game.

    those of you blowing hot air over this, please stop, recent studies have shown you are contributing significantly to global warming.

    Cool story bro
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I'll re-post this mail I sent to Zinc here then. It dates a few days back when the events began, so the tone is a bit rigid, I'm sure you'll bear with me. It explains clearly what's at stake here in my opinion, and includes a link to a summary of the 'shady' business practices that many of us are outraged, or at least very disappointed at.
    Ikkei wrote: »
    To Atari, Cryptic Studio,

    The situation regarding the care you show for your customers is becoming preoccupying, to say the least. Some of us, early adopters and supporters of Star Trek Online, are beginning to think that we're not receiving what I would call "commercial respect". This has nothing to do with any current in-game issue, but with the 60 days offered with it.

    Please allow me to elaborate, as I only wish for all of us to find a mutually satisfying solution to our concerns.
    • We supported the game from the beginning, gave you feedback and suggestions;
    • We were part of the beta testing process;
    • We gave you money even before launch, since Nov. 2009, by buying many more boxes per player than any MMO-beta crowd ever did or could;
    • Some even bought a lifetime membership (only to see, 24 days later, others get 60 days of free time);
    • We suffered bugs (some irreversible, cf. BO rewards) during headstart, after launch and still today;
    • Finally, we were there to increase your numbers!

    Now, realistically,
    • MMO have bugs and issues at launch. We "get it".
    • You know we were all expendable regarding beta (players love that).
    • You already got a lot of our cash.
    • We were there to help, but in all truth because we wanted to and love ST.
    We "get" that. You don't "owe" us anything.


    But realistically also,
    • Treating your first and core supporters like a second-rate group by giving 60 free days to newcomers, in the form of a promotional offer which timing (less than 4 weeks after release) speaks volume on the end value of your "short-term 18-24 months R&D'ed MMOs";
    • On the very next day after you made a HUGE mistake in communication by calling some of us "those who don't get it", without clearer/further explanation, notwithstanding the heated reactions and legitimate concerns;
    • Effectively polarizing further more the player base (makes one wonder if you predicted it, or wish it to be so), while obviously the few vocal persons that "don't get it" are not even worth mentioning in a State of the Game (they'd already have left or would be about to, and such a remark at them will only aggravate that fact);
    • Also considering you never addressed any of the hardships you put us through during headstart and early release in the form of a tangible compensation – free days of play for all registered players at the time of the events (here Jan 29 to Feb 14 or so) are the usual compensation in this business, however I suppose instead of that, Cryptic Points would also be appreciated;
    I believe, Cryptic, that at this point, you really need to address us in a substantial way and give us the same "benefits" that you give in this oh-so-early promotion.
    Namely,
    • 60 days of free play,
    • Up to $10 worth of Cryptic Points. (edit: the survey points may be interpreted as such)

    Should you fail to do so, or do anything tangible and meaningful (words cannot suffice at this point),
    not only would you prove your company to be more greedy and disrespectful of its customers than you ever suggested, notably with the shady business practices that you demonstrated around the boxes, followed by lifetime+bonuses, followed by simple lifetime and now this (see this sum up), in a total disregard for transparency, or dare I say honesty;
    but you would have effectively done everything in your power to displease and alienate this player base, early followers and supporters of this game, to such an extent that I can't even begin to imagine the overwhelming amount of bad word of mouth you'd be receiving for years to come.
    (edit: Apparently, it already started in the media and various websites)

    This is not a threat, merely an educated guess. I will not lose a minute of my time bashing you if i ever walk away from here for good, disappointment begets ignorance. But a lot of vocal people will. And I won't be there to say otherwise, rather second their opinion. Who am I? Nobody. But we're a lot of nobodies out here, it's called the MMOG market, I'm sure you've heard of it.

    Atari, you are walking a very gray path that leads right to where SOE is rotting: so far away from players' hearts that most of them will never touch one of their games again by principle - and they would probably make sure everyone they know is warned. Remember this NGE incident dates back to 2005, they did refund the players asking, and still the harm is irrevocably done for that company's image. That was 6 years ago, or should I say 3 to 4 MMOs for you.



    For the love of this game, for the potential of this IP, for the sake of trying to do the right thing here, and come out of this the upper way,

    I beg you to consider the plea we're making with this topic, or any other form of tangible gesture that you can make towards us, early adopters of Star Trek Online. You know us, we're the people who registered a key prior to Feb, 26th 2010, who don't currently have 90 days of free play remaining, and paid at least a full $59.99 for the box.

    Thank you, in advance, for taking this opinion into consideration.

    Cordially,

    Ikkei
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Syas wrote:
    Atari giving the free time with the boxed units wasn't Cryptic's decision. They are trying to find a solution, stop blaming them for what the publisher is doing.

    It sucks, I am ****ed at Atari too, I am just saying that everyone is biting the only hand that could feed them here.

    Well no wonder I'm hungry
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I'm sorry to say that todays antics have just been one ongoing barrel of laughs for me. Its like watching a train wreck of fail that you just cant stop seeing because its so bad you think... how could it get any worse ?

    Let see:

    - Skill capped 1 week prior to launch without any notification until people actually brought it up. Respecs promised to be implemented

    - Pre-order bonus Joined Trill not available for Klingon faction, still not addressed 3 weeks later

    - Pre-order skirts advertised but not finally implemented till 1 week after launch because Cryptic didnt know TOS skirts were part of the claimed package.

    - Respec system finally addressed to be coming in 1 - 2 months, new raidisodes hinted at

    - Raising of the cap (4.5 grades) slatted for 'later this year', any further skill cap threads completely stone walled by Cryptic.

    - Two weeks later IGN advert indicates Taskforce content arrives next day, Cryptic backpedal furiously by saying its been put back another 2 weeks and was only for the 'test server'. Advert is not taken down.

    - Cryptic claim test server will be available to test new content but is not

    - New Advert proclaim held back content is already in game and now offered at lower price + playtime

    - Cryptic now refuse lifetime subscription refunds while still peddling the same BS promises about content coming 'soon' and they have massive plans.



    Coming to an STO forum near you:


    Next carriage wreck: Test server not coming up by Thursday
    Next carriage wreck: STF Content held back further
    Next carriage wreck: 45 Day patch (18th March) held back
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Yeah I still see it. Not happy about any of those. Bad handling on everyones part at Atari and Cryptic (except Indigo_Fyre, respect for you man (or woman as may be!)).

    At this point I believe they have put themselves in a catch 22.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Although being a lifer I agree with adding 60 days to all affected, seems like an easy and possible the only fix for this whole snafu to me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    That is the main point that most people are angry over... and I believe it's 60 EXTRA days.

    That is also why I feel this new thread title is misrepresenting the issue.

    I did mean 60 mate, Its just we all got 30, so its like an extra 30 they get.

    I'm not a LTS, should have mentioned that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    There was a thread and it was stickied. Most of the comments there were sound and trolling was there (as ever) but not in overabundance.

    What do you think to accomplish by this, Cryptic? This behaviour is not acceptable.

    Well I can not unsubcribe any more than I already have. Go have a look at the other thread where I explain in detail what the problems are.. You cannot really believe that I will post it here just because you do not want to read through the other thread?

    3066 responses and you close it this way? Nice one. :mad:

    Thanks to IndigoFire for stickying the first thread.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    This sale:

    - diminishes the value of early adopters' subscriptions

    - increases the amount of time that it takes for a lifetime to pay for itself

    - creates a scenario which drives away customers, devaluing a lifetime subscription.

    - creates a second class standard of service for monthly subscribers who will be paying for gametime that new hypothetical customers are not paying for. It's akin to changing the menu price in the middle of a meal.

    - creates a perception that the game has devalued quickly or is hurting for subscribers. True or false, this is a breach of trust. It is your job as service provider to project confidence or the game will fail.

    - sabotages the game with people who are not players yet. I spoke with at least three prospective players who lost all interest when I suggested they pick up the discounted version of the game because they believed this indicated the game would not last.

    - undermines the sense of value for early adopters and is detrimental to future efforts by Cryptic and Atari, discouraging people from early adopting.

    - undermines competing retailers by an excessively wide margin, utilizing Atari-exclusive resources to undermine competing retailers.

    This is unacceptable.

    At the very minimum, I expect:

    - An apology directed at both end users and the retail community for this lapse in judgment.

    - Assurance that the game's immediate future is stable.

    - At the minimum, some token form of redress for injured parties among the subscriber base for this breach of trust.

    Failing this, as someone who purchased two retail copies of the game as well as a lifetime subscription, that affords me 60 days of playtime. I interpret these 60 days to come prior to the beginning of my lifetime. I will seek a refund of my lifetime subscription. If this is denied, I will consider the offered gametime with the retail copies of the game to be a fraudulent claim and will chargeback not only the $240 lifetime subscription (which has not been offered yet; I am still within my 60 days) but also the retail copies ($60 and $80 respectively) and will place formal complaints with the retailers (Amazon and Gamestop) asking that they suspend future sales of Atari products in light of the fraudulent nature of the merchandise.

    This is NOT my preferred course of action. I have a great deal of personal respect for Jack Emmert and the brand that Cryptic Studios represents. However, I believe that this sale constitutes a breach of trust with the community and cannot be construed to be an action which is designed to gain customers. In fact, I believe that any analysis of the state of the community at present shows that persisting in this line of marketing without addressing the satisfaction of existing subscribers would constitute a willful attempt to reduce the number of players in this game and a deliberate attempt by Atari to shut down this game without fulfilling its obligations to paying subscribers and Cryptic Studios by creating a hostile atmosphere that will sabotage the potential for profitability and growth of this game.

    I am prepared to live up to my end of this arrangement but only if Atari is prepared to live up to their end of the agreement as well.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Yeah and what is with all the marketing saying the new content is in when it isnt ? Are you trying to make all these new subscribers angry right off the bat when they join ?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Image from the Atari web:

    http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8516/atarilies.jpg

    Cryptic, you really should speak with them... it gives you a bad name.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Kanharn wrote: »
    I did mean 60 mate, Its just we all got 30, so its like an extra 30 they get.

    I'm not a LTS, should have mentioned that.

    My understanding is that they get 60 extra on top of the base 30 that comes with the box. The ad stated that you got both, and there has never been any official contradiction to that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Syas wrote:
    Atari giving the free time with the boxed units wasn't Cryptic's decision. They are trying to find a solution, stop blaming them for what the publisher is doing.

    It sucks, I am ****ed at Atari too, I am just saying that everyone is biting the only hand that could feed them here.

    Yeah but since atari shut down the community forum all the links lead right back here to these forums.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    At this point, I would be happy for them to admit they made a mistake. That would at least be something.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    so..let me get this straight...you want no one to see how much you failed to sucker more people into buying this game so you can scam them as well? yeah that aint gona happen, keep an eye on youtube cryptic as people will be uploading this issue on an more open source.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    reposted from closed thread:
    I fully understand why every one is upset. Neither the price decrease nor free time effect me. I am a life timer x4 (2 Co 2x STO) and will be sticking around. What is upsetting is that many who supported the game by buying when it first came out will be paying come March 1, while the new folk in the door will be playing the game for free for 3 months instead of 1. The price reduction is NOT the issue the free time is. The free time is a slap in the face of those who supported the game less than 30 days earlier. If this offer was given 6 month from now I sure no one be upset. The fact that it was offered only 28 days after does.

    I am part of 'The Faithful" but this stunt I feel that Ataria Cryptic has let me down even though I am not one who lost by this deal in the short run. In the long run it will cause me harm because it has eroded the loyalty of many who have supported the game up to now. The way the boards are flaming, the way many are leaving my fear is that the game will go under or be a ghost town before I finish paying my credit card for it. It has been many little things that has eroded our loyalty. For me is no female miror uniform uniforms, limited content, slow cruiser turning speed, no crafting, mad libs fill in the blank exploration. What is still holding me is I enjoy flying my ship, design my avatar and playing the episodes. I am one of those who actually put in over 200 game hours and has not hit Admiral on any of my characters. The hope that more will be added, the promise that we are important and they will listen to us is the only hope I have. Yes I hold hope they listen even when they add stuff I do not like (DP anyone) just because it shows they care. Right now I have to wonder do they, are they listening?

    I have played many so called failed mmo (Horizons, Dark and LIght, Shadowbane, Age of Connan) I had been hoping that STO would break the streak. Right now it does not look good for that. I am waiting for your reply to this, how this is handle will determine my view of Atari/ Cryptic and if I will support any other games you develop in the future. We all are waiting the ball is now in your court.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Well considering that they closed that other thread, I am going to copy and paste my thoughts into this thread! Sorry for the wall of text...
    I figure I would and add my two cents (finally). I have read *most* of what is in this thread and in other threads and I mostly agree with what has been stated about the direction STO has gone and where it is gone... ironic enough, even my friends who do not even PLAY this game also agreed that this situation was quite messed up.

    I am tired of doing explorations, and to be honest, in addition tired of doing a daily quest for purples that have absolutely no purpose at this point except for waving some E-peen at this point...

    I don't know... I hoped very much more from this game and I did not get it. Does that make me a flamer or troll? I don't know, and personally, I do not care, I call things how I see it and to me, this stinks.

    Is it the fact that I am quite disappointed with this game? I paid for repeated subscriptions to FFXI (including collectors editions) and Special Edition to Aion & STO... I feel glad that I got them but at the same time disappointed at the same time. Each one of these games have thier own faults but I have never seen as many faults as I have seen in this game. Usually you can see for example, some bugs fixed right on the spot where they will bring down a specific zone for it or something but I guess it works differently in this type of "heavily instanced" game.

    I feel that to have content this scarce in STO and in addition so little that it is a damned shame. I mentioned in one of my "rare" threads that I did follow this game from I think around 2003 when it wad first announced. I automatically knew I was going to leave my 8 years of FFXI behind to play this game when it was released.

    I was on the fence about this game when I reached RA5 and had more than 1.5 mil in the bank and had nothing to do when I did get the last "grade" in the game at this point but, I felt "reassured" during that "State of the Game" then this price cut TRIBBLE came out. (Talk about doing a 180!) I thought about it a few days before this, playing the daily exploration quest then logging off (I do not like PVP very much I am a community guy when it is presented) but again, when this price cut and 60 day extra days hit, the straw finally broke the camel's back.

    I think I was hoping for the experience of more commanding and more personal relationships with my shipmates on each ship that I commanded in addition to exploring new worlds and new civilizations and boldly going where no man has gone before... but that did not happen.

    Personally, I actually enjoyed the combat system... granted, it was quite broken sometimes and I ABSOLUTELY HATED the fact that some items were underground or the grenade thing was not visible I could deal with...but after this latest infraction... no. I am done.

    I canceled at 22:08MST on Saturday and I must admit, there have been times where I want to sit in the Captain's Chair again... but not if it is going to be for my 3 month subscription in a sea of nothingness... Knowing that other people will be able to get an additional 60 days free over me in the same month no less...

    So I will sit and read the forums in the back burner like I always do and hope that things improve (and hopefully take a wonderful direction unlike Aion) and see if the Dev's, Atari, and Cryptic can pull a win and bring many people who like me, who is actually silent but reads the boards and does not really post but makes their own choices in life because although I can afford the game, I would rather be entertained and if I am not entertained, there is another game or Blu Ray I can pickup that can substitute that monthly subscription.

    Reguards,
    Jonathan Tanta

    *Edit for grammar* Can I say E-peen?!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    massdev wrote:
    What are you going to do for lifetime subscribers?

    There's nothing to be done for lifetime subscribers. This offer did not change the break-even date for lifetime subscribers at all.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I called it didn't I
    "defening silence for 3 days followed by a one line response on monday, it's the Craptic Way!"

    Ah good old CR, Working As Intended i see
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    The worst part about this is that, Atari is TRIBBLE over all the loyal pre-order customers with this sale. The people who made community and the founding fleets in the first place.

    Cryptic needs to take ownership of this problem and do it fast. If they let this go say till the 4th when the majority of the subs go into effect they are going to have a major problem on their hands.

    They may not like the idea of giving their entire customer base 60 days free, but that is not their customers fault that Atari did such a stupid sale.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Diella wrote:
    reposted from closed thread:
    I fully understand why every one is upset. Neither the price decrease nor free time effect me. I am a life timer x4 (2 Co 2x STO) and will be sticking around. What is upsetting is that many who supported the game by buying when it first came out will be paying come March 1, while the new folk in the door will be playing the game for free for 2 months instead of 1. The price reduction is NOT the issue the free time is. The free time is a slap in the face of those who supported the game less than 30 days earlier. If this offer was given 6 month from now I sure no one be upset. The fact that it was offered only 28 days after does.


    Its actually free for 3 months, not 2.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    bstiff wrote:
    Yeah but since atari shut down the community forum all the links lead right back here to these forums.

    So you would rather complain at someone who wasn't responsible for the issue you are complaining about? I like how there was a thread to e-mail bomb Cryptic this weekend, but "Atari redirected their forums here" is enough to make you not care to complain to the people who have the authority to implement the changes requested.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    J-Sheridan wrote:
    I- Pre-order bonus Joined Trill not available for Klingon faction, still not addressed 3 weeks later

    I don't understand why players are expecting the Joined Trill feature to be available for the Klingon faction. Was it advertised somewhere that it would be? There are plenty of pre-order bonus that aren't available for use when playing a Klingon character.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    You know if they keep this up, they mite put a old group of book burners to shame.
This discussion has been closed.