I say no, because STO is an amusement park kind of game, not a sandbox kind of game, in amuseent park kind of games death penality should be as light as possible to not impair fun gameplay or the game pace.
It isn't. I think you've misunderstood the point.
If death has little consequence and all the while the challenge diminishes, then the level of challenge is no longer maintained and ultimately becomes nullified. This is not evident in other MMO's but it IS in STO for a number of reasons. Heres 2 examples:
Solo encounter (1 player vs 3 ships):
The encounter starts, the player defeats 1 ship and blows up in the process.
The player respawns, now theres only 2 ships left. The challenge is now diminished because the player is back to full health but only has to take on 2 ships.
The player begins the encounter again, kills another ship, and blows up in the process.
.......
Rinse and repeat until all mobs are gone.
Do you see how in this scenario, the player isn't actually adhering to a rule of "defeat the encounter without dying", because they don't need to and thats because they aren't encouraged to do so.
Now, the issue is further compounded in a group situation:
Group encounter (many players vs 1 big bad TRIBBLE mob):
The encounter starts, the npcs health gets down to 75% and a player dies.
That player respawns after a few seconds and re-enters the fight at full health.
The npcs health is now at 60%. The group feels little result by the players death, and the chance of not succeeding hasn't been altered in any way. This is because all group members are at this point with full health and effectiveness. Whilst the npc is continuing to lose theirs.
The npcs health reaches 50%. A different player dies and after a few seconds respawns will full health and returns to the fight.
The npcs health is now 40%.
.......
Eventually the npc "dies" and every group member is full health.
The challenge should always be about completing the task in the way it is intended. And that often involves the use of tactics in order to not "die".
Have you ever played WoW? This exact same thing happens.
Solo player goes into an area kills a mob and dies. Rezes. Goes to kill other mob.
Group goes into a Hellfire kills a few mobs and gets wiped. Group rezes and returns to finish the rest of the mobs.
And WoW isn't the only one either. Pretty much every game has instances that I have ever played is like that. If you expect DP to stop that kind of play then you will be sorely disapointed.
Actually, no, you can't de-level if you die in Final Fantasy XI. You're thinking of Tibia, where you can lose two or three levels per death at higher levels. In Final Fantasy XI, you can only go as low as the minimum for your level.
This is actually incorrect. You will de-level by dying often enough in FFXI. Some players even use (or abuse, depending on how you look at it) that mechanic to their advantaged and die to de-level repeatedly on purpose to achieve certain goals.
XP and item loss are among the worst types of death penalties, in my opinion, and I highly doubt we'd see anything that severe here considering the executive producer doesn't care for death penalties to begin with.
I havent played Turbines Dungeons and Dragons online in awhile but when I played it before one zoned into an instance one could select the difficulty level of that mission.
Since Cryptic is working on a difficulty slider, could something like this be used? Since in some games death penalties are a timed debuff. Could one be set so that one can join an instance that applies a timed-death penalty debuff as well as the difficulty. The instance that is spawned with that option could maybe be set to apply the debuff. If one did not select the death-penalty option, then that instance will not be coded for a death-penalty debuff. This would work for PvE.
As far as PvP goes, could matches be flagged as death-penalty matches? That way those instances are flagged to apply the debuff to those who die in those instances. If one does not want to enter a PvP instance with a death penalty they can que for one that does not have that option attached to that zone.
I did not address item wear on things with a death penalty because items currently do not have a durability rating on them.
There is no risk in the game, at the moment to me it feels like I am forever grinding not playing. If I know I may actually die and the level resets or what not, then maybe I may have to think about it a little more and not just button mash until I die, run right back to it and button mash some more.
There is no risk in the game, at the moment to me it feels like I am forever grinding not playing. If I know I may actually die and the level resets or what not, then maybe I may have to think about it a little more and not just button mash until I die, run right back to it and button mash some more.
Thanks
Except is all you do is mash buttons and not die even if there was perma-death how would it change that you really don't need to do more then mash buttons? And how is your play style any of my concern? Again play the game, you want to punish yourself for being lazy and uncreative, do it just sit as a flaming hulk for 2 or 5 or 10 minutes, I don't die I play the game seriously I rarely die, in fact I actually make it more difficult. I recently found out escorts don't die, yet I slowly follow them, heal them, and protect them I never noticed that I did not have to do this so I play seriously, whats your problem?
There is no risk in the game, at the moment to me it feels like I am forever grinding not playing. If I know I may actually die and the level resets or what not, then maybe I may have to think about it a little more and not just button mash until I die, run right back to it and button mash some more.
Thanks
All MMOs, even those with harsher death penalties, are "forever grinding" games. You are either grinding levels or grinding loot drops. It is the essence of an MMO. DP or not you will mash buttons, dies and run back to do it all over again. I know of no MMOs with perma death that would stop this cycle (that's not to say there is not one).
Ha whats going on with the death penalty? Ok here is what I thing. Yes we could have a death penalty,but me problem with it is that most of the mission can't be redone. So if they start taking away XP how are we to level up. I think they could take away credits. Like it we die take 50 away. See we can always sell stuff. We can't get the missions back to get the XP. If the person gets down to no money they just will learn not to get killed. :cool:
If it isn't permanent (such as loss of items or of points), it could lead us to more prudence. So I say yes. In WOW, the rez sickness was a penalty, but not an unbearable one. In STOL it could be a temporary lessened energy output...
No death penalty (or an optional difficulty-slider-based death penalty. I'd be okay with that).
Z!
I say "No" too. I also agree with Zordar. I' m an adult. I don't have time to play this game 12 hours a day. I'm also new to MMO's so all this stuff is new to me. I don't want to be penalized because of mistakes I'm going to make. However, I'd have no problem with a difficulty slider.
DP for PVP = NO
DP for PVE = Kind of YES. (I would suggest to have increased timeout after every next death, or put some limit to deaths for PVE mission (for whole team) . Reaching that limit would decrease amount of money, exp you get from that mission (Global Agenda has that and works perfectly)
So many of the posts i see stat that they don't want a death penalty, what they don't understand is that fundamentally no one wants a death penalty in its core mechanic, however it is needed to push for players to strive for strategies and tactics that involve critical thinking.
if there is no death penalty then there is a lack of consequences on death, which then causes players to play poorly. as they use zerg tactics or suicide tactics which aren't really meant to be valid tactics, but due to their being no penilty for these tactics there is no reason to use anything else.
Giving people what they want is not always the way to go sometimes you need to give people what they need.
all i hope is that the death penalty comes with PvP balancing (so we don't have 3 v10) and i hope all this comes before my subscription is up as if not i wont be here.
DP for PVP = NO
DP for PVE = Kind of YES. (I would suggest to have increased timeout after every next death, or put some limit to deaths for PVE mission (for whole team) . Reaching that limit would decrease amount of money, exp you get from that mission (Global Agenda has that and works perfectly)
Comments
what you call raid i call random group of ppl and not a raid
(As long as its implemented properly).
Have you ever played WoW? This exact same thing happens.
Solo player goes into an area kills a mob and dies. Rezes. Goes to kill other mob.
Group goes into a Hellfire kills a few mobs and gets wiped. Group rezes and returns to finish the rest of the mobs.
And WoW isn't the only one either. Pretty much every game has instances that I have ever played is like that. If you expect DP to stop that kind of play then you will be sorely disapointed.
Yes to a Life Reward
This is actually incorrect. You will de-level by dying often enough in FFXI. Some players even use (or abuse, depending on how you look at it) that mechanic to their advantaged and die to de-level repeatedly on purpose to achieve certain goals.
XP and item loss are among the worst types of death penalties, in my opinion, and I highly doubt we'd see anything that severe here considering the executive producer doesn't care for death penalties to begin with.
Since Cryptic is working on a difficulty slider, could something like this be used? Since in some games death penalties are a timed debuff. Could one be set so that one can join an instance that applies a timed-death penalty debuff as well as the difficulty. The instance that is spawned with that option could maybe be set to apply the debuff. If one did not select the death-penalty option, then that instance will not be coded for a death-penalty debuff. This would work for PvE.
As far as PvP goes, could matches be flagged as death-penalty matches? That way those instances are flagged to apply the debuff to those who die in those instances. If one does not want to enter a PvP instance with a death penalty they can que for one that does not have that option attached to that zone.
I did not address item wear on things with a death penalty because items currently do not have a durability rating on them.
There is no risk in the game, at the moment to me it feels like I am forever grinding not playing. If I know I may actually die and the level resets or what not, then maybe I may have to think about it a little more and not just button mash until I die, run right back to it and button mash some more.
Thanks
Except is all you do is mash buttons and not die even if there was perma-death how would it change that you really don't need to do more then mash buttons? And how is your play style any of my concern? Again play the game, you want to punish yourself for being lazy and uncreative, do it just sit as a flaming hulk for 2 or 5 or 10 minutes, I don't die I play the game seriously I rarely die, in fact I actually make it more difficult. I recently found out escorts don't die, yet I slowly follow them, heal them, and protect them I never noticed that I did not have to do this so I play seriously, whats your problem?
All MMOs, even those with harsher death penalties, are "forever grinding" games. You are either grinding levels or grinding loot drops. It is the essence of an MMO. DP or not you will mash buttons, dies and run back to do it all over again. I know of no MMOs with perma death that would stop this cycle (that's not to say there is not one).
vote here.
i will not taint the result with my own personal bias.
and i love it to
Its a NO though
Z!
I say "No" too. I also agree with Zordar. I' m an adult. I don't have time to play this game 12 hours a day. I'm also new to MMO's so all this stuff is new to me. I don't want to be penalized because of mistakes I'm going to make. However, I'd have no problem with a difficulty slider.
DP for PVE = Kind of YES. (I would suggest to have increased timeout after every next death, or put some limit to deaths for PVE mission (for whole team) . Reaching that limit would decrease amount of money, exp you get from that mission (Global Agenda has that and works perfectly)
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=2254235#post2254235
One wonders if you prefer PVP.