This is why I've argued, again and again, that the following two changes - not penalties - are required.
Restore spawns to full strength on solo/full-group defeat.
Suppress respawn when grouped until the group wipes (and provide a 'rez' mechanic in space as exists on the ground, with ships being disabled rather than core-breaching until the wipe)
Fleet actions and DSEs are just lost causes by their sloppy design and, with the way the mechanics only reward DPS, being taken out of the fight briefly does set you back.
What you list are the mechanics found in a lot of MMO's and you won't get an argument from me to introduce concepts that have been previously proven to work. Some would argue that in doing so would mean that STO would become a "clone" of others. I disagree. Besides, its not about being a "clone", its about using common sense and using methods that have already been proven to work. Why re-invent the wheel, when you can refine it to suit your needs?
I still feel that whilst suppressing a respawn of the individual until the encounter is over is a good move, there needs to also be a more "individual" encouragement not to die. And that's why a death penalty is also needed.
Imagine there was a balanced DP in place and the player couldn't rejoin the group when they died until the encounter was defeated or it reset:
Now even myself, as an Escort ship, can appreciate the encouragement NOT to go full on the dps for fear of catching aggro and dying because of the penalties it imposes. Meanwhile, the Cruiser in my group is doing his damndest to keep aggro, whilst the science vessele is attempting to help with whatever it is that they do.
A balanced and fair death penalty encourages each of those players on an individual basis not to die, whilst the fact that the same player is taken out of the encounter altogether affects the group as a whole.
Thus both act as a double encouragement to defeat the encounter in the desired way: without dying.
All im doing here is explaining EXACTLY what happens in all other MMOs already, this stuff is nothing new.
Absolutely not. This game has to many bugs in it where you just appear in the middle of combat and get killed by 10 or more ships. This can happen repeatedly as you respawn. Having a death penalty for this would be completely unfair.
No. But if it were that you get no points for the mission IF YOU LOSE....would go a long way toward improving PVP. Anything else will just kill the game....so NO NO NO NO NO
it depends on how they do it, but it could create something really bizarre ... almost a flavor of, ahh, realism. Flying my smoldering, damaged ship back to Starbase for repairs would be more realistic; however, they would need to change some missions that love to nuke a tiny little ship 5 times to beat it.
No death penalty (but I welcome change to death mechanics, see below).
A game should offer sufficient challenge (and reward for meeting the challenge) without the need to inflict pointless and frustrating limitations on trying to learn, adapt and overcome the challenge.
There is a learning process in trial and error, the failure should be enough in and of itself - you don't smack someone upside the head because they tried to learn how to paint and it didn't come out so great the first time. They have already lost the time and effort spent (but have hopefully learned something in the process).
I welcome more challenging content (and optional difficulty), and even group spawn resets, but a death penalty is an archaic and tired mechanism. Developers can and should step away from the same old exhausted standards and innovate how we approach the issue of making content rewarding.
NOTE: I believe a lot of the 'Pro-DP' crowd are mistaking the ability to fail with punishing the failure. Most of them probably aren't even thinking about it in that way.
Failure should be a possible outcome (this is where the current flaw in this debate resides), we learn by our failures. However there is no logical reason to punish someone should they suffer failure, unless your desire is to discourage them from making the attempt in the first place (which should not be in something meant to provide escapism and entertainment).
Yes WIth big IF.
this should of been addressed before release, the fact the peps are burning through the game to quickly is the result of not enough forethought.
Adding a decent leveling system involves not only a DP but equipment damage and in some cases reduced strike power DPS Resistance damage and increased difficultly at higher levels, most if not all current top shelf MMO`s have all of these and Iam sure I`ve missed some.
Adding one now while as necessary as it might be would also require more content to keep peps wanting to plug through it.
Rework the so called trade-skilling system, player quarters that can be furnished with collectibles trophies extra the list goes on, not doing this and simple throwing in a death penalty is only going to hurt the game adding one to small will have little effect to burn through as the game stands now.
All I ask is that plenty of thought is given to how it will affect the overall playability and enjoyability of the game before this is added.
And I might add this should be seen to before you add raid content..
Really want to see STO become the best MMO on the market as it stands its going to get old real quick.
For PvP no penalty. However for PvE absolutly yes. Why? Because a) there's already too much credits to have and nothing to spend them on (friend of mine had over a mil just by replicating drops down) and b) It makes players play much more carefully and smarter in PvE. That guy who keeps running into the CE and healing it because he thinks its funny might not do it as much if he had a repair bill. Same goes with any people participating in a raid - no need to care if you die if it doesn't cost you anything.
For PvP no penalty. However for PvE absolutly yes. Why? Because a) there's already too much credits to have and nothing to spend them on (friend of mine had over a mil just by replicating drops down) and b) It makes players play much more carefully and smarter in PvE. That guy who keeps running into the CE and healing it because he thinks its funny might not do it as much if he had a repair bill. Same goes with any people participating in a raid - no need to care if you die if it doesn't cost you anything.
Your friend is not spending then, thats not the game's fault I have spent hundreds of thousands of energy credits, thousands of exploration badges and merits. and you don't need a death penalty to spend money to be honest with the compliants of the game being easy if we MUST spend money by force a tax of 10% upon docking at Starbase would do the trick far better then a death penalty.
- Caveat, not because I don't want one, I do, but because there are currently enough broken things in the game that I'd get ticked off dying at a DSE spawn, or being penalized for my officers on the ground having the AI of a brick, or any of the other numerous ways of dying that aren't anywhere in my control.
Comments
What you list are the mechanics found in a lot of MMO's and you won't get an argument from me to introduce concepts that have been previously proven to work. Some would argue that in doing so would mean that STO would become a "clone" of others. I disagree. Besides, its not about being a "clone", its about using common sense and using methods that have already been proven to work. Why re-invent the wheel, when you can refine it to suit your needs?
I still feel that whilst suppressing a respawn of the individual until the encounter is over is a good move, there needs to also be a more "individual" encouragement not to die. And that's why a death penalty is also needed.
Imagine there was a balanced DP in place and the player couldn't rejoin the group when they died until the encounter was defeated or it reset:
Now even myself, as an Escort ship, can appreciate the encouragement NOT to go full on the dps for fear of catching aggro and dying because of the penalties it imposes. Meanwhile, the Cruiser in my group is doing his damndest to keep aggro, whilst the science vessele is attempting to help with whatever it is that they do.
A balanced and fair death penalty encourages each of those players on an individual basis not to die, whilst the fact that the same player is taken out of the encounter altogether affects the group as a whole.
Thus both act as a double encouragement to defeat the encounter in the desired way: without dying.
All im doing here is explaining EXACTLY what happens in all other MMOs already, this stuff is nothing new.
I thought we were all part of the process, isnt that what your promoting?
/10char
/
it depends on how they do it, but it could create something really bizarre ... almost a flavor of, ahh, realism. Flying my smoldering, damaged ship back to Starbase for repairs would be more realistic; however, they would need to change some missions that love to nuke a tiny little ship 5 times to beat it.
diff slider only
A game should offer sufficient challenge (and reward for meeting the challenge) without the need to inflict pointless and frustrating limitations on trying to learn, adapt and overcome the challenge.
There is a learning process in trial and error, the failure should be enough in and of itself - you don't smack someone upside the head because they tried to learn how to paint and it didn't come out so great the first time. They have already lost the time and effort spent (but have hopefully learned something in the process).
I welcome more challenging content (and optional difficulty), and even group spawn resets, but a death penalty is an archaic and tired mechanism. Developers can and should step away from the same old exhausted standards and innovate how we approach the issue of making content rewarding.
NOTE: I believe a lot of the 'Pro-DP' crowd are mistaking the ability to fail with punishing the failure. Most of them probably aren't even thinking about it in that way.
Failure should be a possible outcome (this is where the current flaw in this debate resides), we learn by our failures. However there is no logical reason to punish someone should they suffer failure, unless your desire is to discourage them from making the attempt in the first place (which should not be in something meant to provide escapism and entertainment).
Thank you for reading.
this should of been addressed before release, the fact the peps are burning through the game to quickly is the result of not enough forethought.
Adding a decent leveling system involves not only a DP but equipment damage and in some cases reduced strike power DPS Resistance damage and increased difficultly at higher levels, most if not all current top shelf MMO`s have all of these and Iam sure I`ve missed some.
Adding one now while as necessary as it might be would also require more content to keep peps wanting to plug through it.
Rework the so called trade-skilling system, player quarters that can be furnished with collectibles trophies extra the list goes on, not doing this and simple throwing in a death penalty is only going to hurt the game adding one to small will have little effect to burn through as the game stands now.
All I ask is that plenty of thought is given to how it will affect the overall playability and enjoyability of the game before this is added.
And I might add this should be seen to before you add raid content..
Really want to see STO become the best MMO on the market as it stands its going to get old real quick.
and still no
We need a formal survey/poll by Cryptic on this please.
Your friend is not spending then, thats not the game's fault I have spent hundreds of thousands of energy credits, thousands of exploration badges and merits. and you don't need a death penalty to spend money to be honest with the compliants of the game being easy if we MUST spend money by force a tax of 10% upon docking at Starbase would do the trick far better then a death penalty.
That's not what you accused me of. Please cite what you claimed I had done.
Ten characters
- Caveat, not because I don't want one, I do, but because there are currently enough broken things in the game that I'd get ticked off dying at a DSE spawn, or being penalized for my officers on the ground having the AI of a brick, or any of the other numerous ways of dying that aren't anywhere in my control.