I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Also if you're doing the "heal X shield damage" endeavor, for whatever reason it doesn't count heals from reverse polarity towards that. It's just pure things like sci team and similar. Why that is idk but yeah.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
For shield heal endeavors I go into patrols and pop the rep shield generator once fighting starts. Depending on if it's the green, blue or purple endeavor, it doesn't take too long to fill the bar.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
Also if you're doing the "heal X shield damage" endeavor, for whatever reason it doesn't count heals from reverse polarity towards that. It's just pure things like sci team and similar. Why that is idk but yeah.
Improved Non-linear Progression does count towards the healing, btw.
Also if you're doing the "heal X shield damage" endeavor, for whatever reason it doesn't count heals from reverse polarity towards that. It's just pure things like sci team and similar. Why that is idk but yeah.
Improved Non-linear Progression does count towards the healing, btw.
Good to know next time I have one of those pop up. Anymore it's a pain in the aft shuttle bay to keep up with what does and doesn't get counted.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
Also if you're doing the "heal X shield damage" endeavor, for whatever reason it doesn't count heals from reverse polarity towards that. It's just pure things like sci team and similar. Why that is idk but yeah.
It doesn't even count healing from those things half the time.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,670Community Moderator
Also if you're doing the "heal X shield damage" endeavor, for whatever reason it doesn't count heals from reverse polarity towards that. It's just pure things like sci team and similar. Why that is idk but yeah.
It doesn't even count healing from those things half the time.
The problem that I've encountered when doing healing Endeavors is that if you have any Temp HP of any kind... that prevents you from getting credit for ANY healing (Probably because the Temp HP registers as max HP and thus... "why are you healing you have full HP?"). Even shield healing for some reason. So if you have things that give you Temp HP, might want to avoid triggering that.
Also healing does work on NPCs or other players. One of the ways I've gotten either hull or shield healing has been running Counterpoint and healing DS9. More recently I had shield healing and kill Tholian ships, so I went to Archer, parked next to the Recluse Carrier, and popped the Rep Shield Bubble. Shield healing jumped, probably because I was also catching the T'Varos in the bubble.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Also if you're doing the "heal X shield damage" endeavor, for whatever reason it doesn't count heals from reverse polarity towards that. It's just pure things like sci team and similar. Why that is idk but yeah.
It doesn't even count healing from those things half the time.
The problem that I've encountered when doing healing Endeavors is that if you have any Temp HP of any kind... that prevents you from getting credit for ANY healing (Probably because the Temp HP registers as max HP and thus... "why are you healing you have full HP?"). Even shield healing for some reason. So if you have things that give you Temp HP, might want to avoid triggering that.
Also healing does work on NPCs or other players. One of the ways I've gotten either hull or shield healing has been running Counterpoint and healing DS9. More recently I had shield healing and kill Tholian ships, so I went to Archer, parked next to the Recluse Carrier, and popped the Rep Shield Bubble. Shield healing jumped, probably because I was also catching the T'Varos in the bubble.
I prefer healing others or my hangar pets for the reason Temp HP doesn't give credit and I got loads of stuff that give temp HP so I'm not gonna rebuild my ship build from scratch just to do an Endeavor
Yes. Perhaps the folks wanting to discuss various DPS meters start another thread?
Actually, I was referring to the healing stuff. I don't believe that falls under generating DPS.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
It depends on what one considers a solution and how fast of a solution you want. If you want immediate solutions, run with private groups of like minded peoples so you don't have to worry about encountering the ultra high DPSers you're worried about. This eliminates both sides of the argument as folks can play to their hearts content with like minded people and never have to worry about high/low DPS.
If you want everyone to have equal access to the content, as in everyone can at least step through the door, then you establish a baseline floor and say "anyone meeting requirements X Y Z are good to go." This can be strictly a level requirement, or it can be coupled with other things such saying "anyone at level 65 and 10k DPS is good to go" or what have you. Then anyone above said minimum is good to go on all difficulties. This is what we have now as generally the only requirements people have to meet are level minimums. Anyone who has met the minimum requirements is good to go regardless of difficulty.
If you want special treatment for certain groups along with equality of outcome and don't care if it drives off large portions of the game, then you can institute DPS caps and force people above certain DPS thresholds to only play on higher tier difficulties matching that threshold. You can also add any other arbitrary restrictions and/or changes you wished in this area.
If you believe that not all content has to be made with all people in mind BUT also want to preserve equal chances to get into said content, then you establish basic minimum requirements that must be met to get your foot in the door for each type of content. For normal mode they must meet condition X, for advanced it's conditions X and Y, for elite they must meet conditions X Y and Z. If they don't meet all conditions, they don't get to go. For example let's say condition X is being max level, condition Y is having all equipment at mk xii very rare or above, and condition Z is a DPS requirement of 50k. Now those don't have to be the exact conditions and they can be different, but this is purely for sake of argument. At that juncture, people know what is expected of them to get into each tier of difficulty. How far up the ladder they choose to go is up to them. The difficulties would be balanced around people having met the conditions required for said difficulty while giving people ways to measure their progress.
Unless someone is deliberately trying to AFK someone and being a troll, which would require proof, I see no issue with regards to people being able to do high amounts of DPS. The only real issue I see in this mess is some people not being where they think they are as I outlined before without revisiting the whole thing. Is it ideal getting low DPS people in higher difficulty runs no. Do I think they should be there before certain conditions have been met, no I don't. Likewise is it ideal if you get someone who is doing 500k+ in a normal mode run, not really. If you want equality in terms of access to get in the door, you will have to live with high DPS coming into normal runs, and low DPS going into higher tier runs. If you believe not all content has to be made with all people in mind but want to preserve equal access to the content, then certain conditions will have to be met to get in the door.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
So what are the possible solutions for the DPS issue then? There have been a few ideas offered in this thread.
There are those that may have to pick up their gameplay a bit it's not the 1960's any more
There are others that might want to back off when playing certain normal difficulty maps
Signs could be posted stating the minimum and maximum dps for a map
Game masters with parsers could be deployed to issue violation tickets to offenders doing too much or too little
Players who incur too many violations would have their starships towed to an impound yard
Players would have to attend either a basic starship operation or respectful starship operation course, as determined by the nature of their violations
So what are the possible solutions for the DPS issue then? There have been a few ideas offered in this thread.
There are those that may have to pick up their gameplay a bit it's not the 1960's any more
There are others that might want to back off when playing certain normal difficulty maps
Signs could be posted stating the minimum and maximum dps for a map
Game masters with parsers could be deployed to issue violation tickets to offenders doing too much or too little
Players who incur too many violations would have their starships towed to an impound yard
Players would have to attend either a basic starship operation or respectful starship operation course, as determined by the nature of their violations
Any related fees would help the dilex
Good grief man you just proposed the Starfleet DMV 0_o
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
People keep bringing up advanced and elite versions of event queues, but that goes both ways - they also need to be normal and advanced versions of ELITE-ONLY queues made as well. LOOKING AT YOU, KORFEZ!
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
if you have torpedos, the first strike bundle is worth the price of admission just for the maelstrom launchers. I routinely see 220 and 300K crits. I just ran argala/wanted and only took 20K shield damage (Have the heal shields endeavor.) I'm hoping not but i see a nerf coing
Well torpedoes is a tricky thing. The torpedo itself plays a big role and how you fire it. Like High Yield Undine Photon Torpedo from the reputation system is a beast as is the Dyson Photon but careful if you are to close with that one you blow yourself up. Now for spread you got something like Neutronic who does a lot of damage on spread.
You also got others who do special stuff like the Quantum Phase Torp as spread for shield drain and you got the Delphic from the lobi store who shoots 4 torps on high yield one 5/6 on 2/3 and takes with each torpedo 10 resistance off combine that with a beta and maybe something else and you get quickly - 100+ resistance on the enemy ship.
C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
I think there's not enough consensus that there IS a problem, let alone the same problem. There's been lots of ideas, but nothing that strikes me as being sufficient to fix anything. Lots of sidestepping the issue, I feel.
Without some solid idea of what the problem actually IS, I think a solution will be elusive.
Not sure I would agree that in general people disagree on this. I believe it depends on what exactly are we talking about.
Is there too much DPS for Normal event content? Yes.
Is there too much DPS for Advanced level TFOs? Depends on a number of things. Impact is seen mostly on Borg TFOs, but in general, maybe.
Is there too much DPS for Elite level queues? Probably not. Some of the Elite DPS folk can answer that.
Looking at the situation like that, you get a better idea of where the adjustments need to be made. In general MMO terms, you have a lot of end game level players who are essentially forced into playing in the starter zones. This is why the problem is much more visible when running content that only comes in Normal difficulty, like Red Alerts, event TFOs, BZs etc. and why I believe any solution has to have a more broad approach.
So how to entice players who are built and playing at a higher level of difficulty out of the lower difficulty content? This is where I like a couple of the suggestions that were made.
Increasing the rewards for Elite level content.
Adding Advanced and Elite level versions of event TFO content would help. It would draw some of the players out of Normal and into those levels of difficulty who are looking for more of a challenge.
Creating a solo TFO map (using ISA map or even CSA or HSA maybe) to be used as a DPS measure to let a player know if they are up to the challenge of higher difficulty content or not. This also helps keep some of the Advanced and Elite players out of lower level content who are running it just to measure their DPS.
I also believe there should be more difficult content added into the game at some point. Everyone will have an equal opportunity to play it, but they will need to up their game in order to be successful at it.
I do not believe there is a one size fits all solution, nor do I believe you will ever be able to eliminate higher level players from queuing into lower difficulty TFOs, but I do believe the impact can be lessened.
This is what I've been talking about, though. That there is too much dps for ANY content is, I think, a problem. Having that elite level dps should make normal content easier, but not trivial. The difference between normal and elite is just too extreme. I feel (and maybe it's just me) that that disparity needs to be reduced, but I just don't know how they would do it.
But again, that's what I think is wrong. As you pointed out, there's not a consensus on just what the problem IS.
Put another way:
If I join elite content in Lord of the Rings Online, such as a raid, there will be players there who are better equipped, having done that content before and got ahold of the best gear possible. If one of them joins me on a normal quest somewhere else in the game, it's not going to be as difficult for him as it is for me, but it's not going to be trivial. The balance point is such that I can do the elite content with some difficulty, and he's not going to find normal content entirely trivial.
I think this is a better way.
You compare apples with oranges. When this game came out it was difficult because even normal content was a challenge. However the Player base was constantly complaining and whining it was to hard and step by step over years Cryptic accommodated the Player base and made the gameplay more easy and the weapons packing a bigger punch. Now we are here, it is what it is but it was the STO Player base who put us here not cryptic. Every casual play who has only an hour a day or less time wants to eat cake, well now there is cake and now there is also some way bigger mouths who do alot more dps. Should they play in normal TFO's, no but then I have people on advanced randoms all the time who have no business being there because they just leech their way to marks.
C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
Anyway, it's true that going up against lower LEVEL enemies is trivial, it's that higher level enemies are not. Being raid equipped would make higher level enemies easier, but not trivial... and there's nothing to stop me participating in a raid with my more basic gear. It would be more difficult, but not impossible. That's what I'm trying to get at.
Here is where I have an issue. If I want to gear myself out to the point I am trivializing the content I'm going into, why should I not be allowed to do so as long as I've done it legitimately? And by legitimately I mean just that, no exploits, glitches or things of that nature. You may not consider that to be fun, and that's a perfectly legitimate stance to take. Likewise on the opposite side of the coin, others may sometimes consider it fun to blast through things like a 1 man/ship army. Neither side's fun is wrong. If I vastly outgear content, then I would expect it to be a cakewalk.
Assuming Cryptic did want to balance the two sides out, the only way to realistically do this without nerfs and without completely obliterating investments people have made would be to use something akin to the SWTOR scaling system. Current max level over there is 80. If I wanted to group with a friend of mine who is level 20 I am free to do so. When I visit the planet he's on, it scales my character down to the max level intended for that planet, let's say 25 just to quantify it hypothetically. I still have my gear, my abilities and the like. However the game treats it as though I'm a level 25 toon with all the abilities and the like of a level 80, but my stats and otherwise behave like that level 25 toon and as though I have the highest gear a 25 can get. In STO terms it would be like having all mk vi golds on a level 30 ship, but with the full t6 toolkit. I still maintain a huge advantage, but generally can't simply one shot everything in sight.
Now, to refer to your example, your numbers would be fine, so long as 100k dps isn't trivializing the 10k dps content. At present, that's what's happening. Whatever the actual numbers are, elite dps trivializes the normal content. I'd just like to see it rebalanced so it's easier without being trivial. That way, normal players COULD participate in elite content too, though with more difficulty.
The problem is that in max level content there is no way to realistically prevent this. The only thing cryptic can do is set a basic standard for everyone across the board. Using Val's hypothetical 10k for normal mode, Cryptic would have to say anything 10k and above is good. Then if you moved into advanced it would go to 50k+, then 100k+ for elite. Again assuming max level content, there is no way to achieve what you're wanting to do without some kind of DPS cap that punishes anyone who dares exceed the minimums.
The key thing to keep in mind as well is that not all content is made for all people. If as a hypothetical we balanced advanced content around people doing 50k+ per Val's hypothetical, this means that content is not intended for people under that 50k minimum. They may be able to get their foot in the door, but they're not ready for it and that content was not intended for them. I still maintain if people can't meet the basic standards the game itself sets, they have no business that content or any right to go into it. Now the big question I have to ask is this, why would a normal mode player want to step into elite level content to start with? Also why should they be allowed to step into elite level content if they're not willing to put in elite levels of work to get there? That's like wanting to get paid for doing 40 hours of work in a week, but only putting in 10 hours of work. Why should the guy who worked only 10 hours get paid the same total amount as the guy who put in the 40 hours? Simply because a particular piece of content wasn't designed with certain people in mind doesn't make it a bad design.
I'm not a pvp person anymore and haven't been for some time. If pvp changes were to be made in STO, SWTOR or any other game I play, those changes would not be meant for someone like me. Likewise in STO I'm not that much of a sci person, meaning when sci ships get released those ships are not made with me in mind. Doesn't make them bad ships, it just means I'm not the target audience. I can use the ships if I like, but if I want to get the most out of them there are certain things I will need to do.
I do see your point though, that since it's really not possible to recalibrate things, perhaps the only real solution is to find ways to "keep" elite players out of normal content. I dislike that idea because it divides the playerbase, but I suppose it's better than nothing.
And this is where as I said the only way to preserve a measure of equal access close to the way things are now is for Cryptic to implement certain minimum requirements and then let players figure out how far above those minimums they want to climb. Per Val's example if normal modes were to be balanced around people doing 10k DPS, then if you are only doing 10k, you will only get 10k worth of results. However if you come in there doing 100k you will get 100k worth of results. You can't put in minimum effort and expect maximum results. If the minimum is at 10k and you want to stay at the 10k then you're free to do so and will always succeed, even if it takes longer and is a bit more difficult. If the minimum is 10k and you're at 100k, you will always succeed but will be easier and not take as long. 10k is simply the minimum to succeed in that equation, how far you go beyond it and how easy you want it to be is up to you. My choosing to go to 100k and trivialize it for myself is not wrong, just like your staying at the 10k isn't wrong either. Unless you're willing to segregate parts of the playerbase, as you've said you don't want to do, you will have to live with the risk of higher DPS people coming into lower DPS content and vice versa with what we have now. There is no way around this.
So in terms of solutions it comes down to this. What do you consider a solution and how quick do you want it?
-If you want everyone to be able to at least step through the door regardless of whether they pass or fail, aka equal access to the venue, then Cryptic will need to establish a baseline floor saying "anyone who meets X Y Z is good to go" and ship it off to players. If they only just meet X Y Z minimum they will get minimum results. If they blow past X Y Z they will get better results.
-If you want special treatment and don't care how many it drives off, anything is on the table.
-If you believe not all content has to be made with all people in mind but also want to preserve equal chances to get into said content and succeed, you need to establish baselines for each level of content. for normal it's condition X, advanced is condition X and Y, elite is condition X Y and Z. Anyone who meets those standards is good to go whether they're sitting right on the minimum line, or they're lightyears past it. If folks want to partake in higher tiers of content the know what they need to do in order to get there. If they only want to stay in normals they can do that too. If they want to get to advanced having met X and Y but don't care about getting to Z, they can stay at X and Y. The only time Z becomes a concern is if they wish to partake in elite.
The only concern other than that is that as the players have experienced power creep, the enemies have too... which is a problem even in normal. Fighting the Tzenkethi is nearly impossible for me, even in normal, and as we've seen, my dps is more or less average. Allowing the dps to get out of hand makes the enemies get out of hand too.
The only time you will experience the stronger foes you speak of is if you deliberately seek them out in the higher tier content, so this is only an issue if you are seeking it out. Those higher powered foes will not appear in normal mode, and if they do then that would be a bug. Tzenkethi aren't hard on any difficulty, you just have to be smart about it.
Also if you're concerned about more difficult foes, why are you going into places where you know those foes exist?
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
just for giggles, I ran the legendary Miranda through starbase 234 with gravimetric torp fore and the bio aft, I clocked about 19K. since 234 was on cooldown i swapped the torps to the maelstrom, ran 9th rule and clocked 20k. I know single runs don't mean much but the maelstrom torpedos seem to boost dps a bit.
Comments
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Improved Non-linear Progression does count towards the healing, btw.
Good to know next time I have one of those pop up. Anymore it's a pain in the aft shuttle bay to keep up with what does and doesn't get counted.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
It doesn't even count healing from those things half the time.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
The problem that I've encountered when doing healing Endeavors is that if you have any Temp HP of any kind... that prevents you from getting credit for ANY healing (Probably because the Temp HP registers as max HP and thus... "why are you healing you have full HP?"). Even shield healing for some reason. So if you have things that give you Temp HP, might want to avoid triggering that.
Also healing does work on NPCs or other players. One of the ways I've gotten either hull or shield healing has been running Counterpoint and healing DS9. More recently I had shield healing and kill Tholian ships, so I went to Archer, parked next to the Recluse Carrier, and popped the Rep Shield Bubble. Shield healing jumped, probably because I was also catching the T'Varos in the bubble.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
I prefer healing others or my hangar pets for the reason Temp HP doesn't give credit and I got loads of stuff that give temp HP so I'm not gonna rebuild my ship build from scratch just to do an Endeavor
Actually, I was referring to the healing stuff. I don't believe that falls under generating DPS.
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
only about 20 times
If you want everyone to have equal access to the content, as in everyone can at least step through the door, then you establish a baseline floor and say "anyone meeting requirements X Y Z are good to go." This can be strictly a level requirement, or it can be coupled with other things such saying "anyone at level 65 and 10k DPS is good to go" or what have you. Then anyone above said minimum is good to go on all difficulties. This is what we have now as generally the only requirements people have to meet are level minimums. Anyone who has met the minimum requirements is good to go regardless of difficulty.
If you want special treatment for certain groups along with equality of outcome and don't care if it drives off large portions of the game, then you can institute DPS caps and force people above certain DPS thresholds to only play on higher tier difficulties matching that threshold. You can also add any other arbitrary restrictions and/or changes you wished in this area.
If you believe that not all content has to be made with all people in mind BUT also want to preserve equal chances to get into said content, then you establish basic minimum requirements that must be met to get your foot in the door for each type of content. For normal mode they must meet condition X, for advanced it's conditions X and Y, for elite they must meet conditions X Y and Z. If they don't meet all conditions, they don't get to go. For example let's say condition X is being max level, condition Y is having all equipment at mk xii very rare or above, and condition Z is a DPS requirement of 50k. Now those don't have to be the exact conditions and they can be different, but this is purely for sake of argument. At that juncture, people know what is expected of them to get into each tier of difficulty. How far up the ladder they choose to go is up to them. The difficulties would be balanced around people having met the conditions required for said difficulty while giving people ways to measure their progress.
Unless someone is deliberately trying to AFK someone and being a troll, which would require proof, I see no issue with regards to people being able to do high amounts of DPS. The only real issue I see in this mess is some people not being where they think they are as I outlined before without revisiting the whole thing. Is it ideal getting low DPS people in higher difficulty runs no. Do I think they should be there before certain conditions have been met, no I don't. Likewise is it ideal if you get someone who is doing 500k+ in a normal mode run, not really. If you want equality in terms of access to get in the door, you will have to live with high DPS coming into normal runs, and low DPS going into higher tier runs. If you believe not all content has to be made with all people in mind but want to preserve equal access to the content, then certain conditions will have to be met to get in the door.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Good grief man you just proposed the Starfleet DMV 0_o
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Well torpedoes is a tricky thing. The torpedo itself plays a big role and how you fire it. Like High Yield Undine Photon Torpedo from the reputation system is a beast as is the Dyson Photon but careful if you are to close with that one you blow yourself up. Now for spread you got something like Neutronic who does a lot of damage on spread.
You also got others who do special stuff like the Quantum Phase Torp as spread for shield drain and you got the Delphic from the lobi store who shoots 4 torps on high yield one 5/6 on 2/3 and takes with each torpedo 10 resistance off combine that with a beta and maybe something else and you get quickly - 100+ resistance on the enemy ship.
You compare apples with oranges. When this game came out it was difficult because even normal content was a challenge. However the Player base was constantly complaining and whining it was to hard and step by step over years Cryptic accommodated the Player base and made the gameplay more easy and the weapons packing a bigger punch. Now we are here, it is what it is but it was the STO Player base who put us here not cryptic. Every casual play who has only an hour a day or less time wants to eat cake, well now there is cake and now there is also some way bigger mouths who do alot more dps. Should they play in normal TFO's, no but then I have people on advanced randoms all the time who have no business being there because they just leech their way to marks.
Assuming Cryptic did want to balance the two sides out, the only way to realistically do this without nerfs and without completely obliterating investments people have made would be to use something akin to the SWTOR scaling system. Current max level over there is 80. If I wanted to group with a friend of mine who is level 20 I am free to do so. When I visit the planet he's on, it scales my character down to the max level intended for that planet, let's say 25 just to quantify it hypothetically. I still have my gear, my abilities and the like. However the game treats it as though I'm a level 25 toon with all the abilities and the like of a level 80, but my stats and otherwise behave like that level 25 toon and as though I have the highest gear a 25 can get. In STO terms it would be like having all mk vi golds on a level 30 ship, but with the full t6 toolkit. I still maintain a huge advantage, but generally can't simply one shot everything in sight.
The problem is that in max level content there is no way to realistically prevent this. The only thing cryptic can do is set a basic standard for everyone across the board. Using Val's hypothetical 10k for normal mode, Cryptic would have to say anything 10k and above is good. Then if you moved into advanced it would go to 50k+, then 100k+ for elite. Again assuming max level content, there is no way to achieve what you're wanting to do without some kind of DPS cap that punishes anyone who dares exceed the minimums.
The key thing to keep in mind as well is that not all content is made for all people. If as a hypothetical we balanced advanced content around people doing 50k+ per Val's hypothetical, this means that content is not intended for people under that 50k minimum. They may be able to get their foot in the door, but they're not ready for it and that content was not intended for them. I still maintain if people can't meet the basic standards the game itself sets, they have no business that content or any right to go into it. Now the big question I have to ask is this, why would a normal mode player want to step into elite level content to start with? Also why should they be allowed to step into elite level content if they're not willing to put in elite levels of work to get there? That's like wanting to get paid for doing 40 hours of work in a week, but only putting in 10 hours of work. Why should the guy who worked only 10 hours get paid the same total amount as the guy who put in the 40 hours? Simply because a particular piece of content wasn't designed with certain people in mind doesn't make it a bad design.
I'm not a pvp person anymore and haven't been for some time. If pvp changes were to be made in STO, SWTOR or any other game I play, those changes would not be meant for someone like me. Likewise in STO I'm not that much of a sci person, meaning when sci ships get released those ships are not made with me in mind. Doesn't make them bad ships, it just means I'm not the target audience. I can use the ships if I like, but if I want to get the most out of them there are certain things I will need to do.
And this is where as I said the only way to preserve a measure of equal access close to the way things are now is for Cryptic to implement certain minimum requirements and then let players figure out how far above those minimums they want to climb. Per Val's example if normal modes were to be balanced around people doing 10k DPS, then if you are only doing 10k, you will only get 10k worth of results. However if you come in there doing 100k you will get 100k worth of results. You can't put in minimum effort and expect maximum results. If the minimum is at 10k and you want to stay at the 10k then you're free to do so and will always succeed, even if it takes longer and is a bit more difficult. If the minimum is 10k and you're at 100k, you will always succeed but will be easier and not take as long. 10k is simply the minimum to succeed in that equation, how far you go beyond it and how easy you want it to be is up to you. My choosing to go to 100k and trivialize it for myself is not wrong, just like your staying at the 10k isn't wrong either. Unless you're willing to segregate parts of the playerbase, as you've said you don't want to do, you will have to live with the risk of higher DPS people coming into lower DPS content and vice versa with what we have now. There is no way around this.
So in terms of solutions it comes down to this. What do you consider a solution and how quick do you want it?
-If you want everyone to be able to at least step through the door regardless of whether they pass or fail, aka equal access to the venue, then Cryptic will need to establish a baseline floor saying "anyone who meets X Y Z is good to go" and ship it off to players. If they only just meet X Y Z minimum they will get minimum results. If they blow past X Y Z they will get better results.
-If you want special treatment and don't care how many it drives off, anything is on the table.
-If you believe not all content has to be made with all people in mind but also want to preserve equal chances to get into said content and succeed, you need to establish baselines for each level of content. for normal it's condition X, advanced is condition X and Y, elite is condition X Y and Z. Anyone who meets those standards is good to go whether they're sitting right on the minimum line, or they're lightyears past it. If folks want to partake in higher tiers of content the know what they need to do in order to get there. If they only want to stay in normals they can do that too. If they want to get to advanced having met X and Y but don't care about getting to Z, they can stay at X and Y. The only time Z becomes a concern is if they wish to partake in elite.
The only time you will experience the stronger foes you speak of is if you deliberately seek them out in the higher tier content, so this is only an issue if you are seeking it out. Those higher powered foes will not appear in normal mode, and if they do then that would be a bug. Tzenkethi aren't hard on any difficulty, you just have to be smart about it.
Also if you're concerned about more difficult foes, why are you going into places where you know those foes exist?
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator