Also, discussing/advising why/how this should be for dil instead of zen (and for how much dil), and how this would fix the broken dil exchange would be a much more useful dialogue than quibbling over definitions of PTW and escalating it into flame wars.
Pricing it at a quarter million dil would be the same as 500 Zen (at max exchange rates), but would also actually get the dil exchange moving again. Win/win (and the first person to say Pay-to-Win/Pay-to-Win wins a free destabilized plasma torpedo up their impule engine!)
I probably have 100 BOFFs across all my characters. I probably wouldn't upgrade all of them in this way, but others might.
So you're right that it's not totally sustainable, but I suspect that for many people, they'd buy the tokens piecemeal over a long period of time, so it might be 'nearly' sustainable. Does that make sense?
> @captainkoltar said: > I probably have 100 BOFFs across all my characters. I probably wouldn't upgrade all of them in this way, but others might. > > So you're right that it's not totally sustainable, but I suspect that for many people, they'd buy the tokens piecemeal over a long period of time, so it might be 'nearly' sustainable. Does that make sense?
Well, it is more like a Phoenix upgrade. Unless you are topping the DPS board you are probably going to get new gear and new boffs. So upgrading things like gear, boffs and ships for dilithum is the closest thing the game has to a potentially “sustainable” dilithium sink. If that is not “sustainable” by your definition than nothing is except perhaps something like an exchange tax or a transportation tax. A truly limitless dilithium sink is to charge dilithium for traveling or for playing normally.
> @captainkoltar said:
> I probably have 100 BOFFs across all my characters. I probably wouldn't upgrade all of them in this way, but others might.
>
> So you're right that it's not totally sustainable, but I suspect that for many people, they'd buy the tokens piecemeal over a long period of time, so it might be 'nearly' sustainable. Does that make sense?
Well, it is more like a Phoenix upgrade. Unless you are topping the DPS board you are probably going to get new gear and new boffs. So upgrading things like gear, boffs and ships for dilithum is the closest thing the game has to a potentially “sustainable” dilithium sink. If that is not “sustainable” by your definition than nothing is except perhaps something like an exchange tax or a transportation tax. A truly limitless dilithium sink is to charge dilithium for traveling or for playing normally.
You misunderstand. I'm saying that it is sustainable - even though eventually everyone will upgrade all the characters that they want to (so in that sense it's not), this will take long enough for most people that it could be considered sustainable I think.
I think a Phoenix upgrade is an excellent comparison to how I feel about it.
You are right. I agree. I was criticizing Rattler2’s interpretation of “sustainability,” although I was quoting you. I do appreciate Rattler’s argument too, though. If I came across as being overly conversational—I’m sorry. I respect all you all a lot.
You are actually competing for rewards in this game. Not by deliberate design but because it's possible to buy enough power that players with casual builds can't do enough damage to escape the AFK penalty.
Personally, I am in no way competing with anyone in the game, except maybe myself. A prime example is with the random battle instances that pop up on the map every now and then. Sometimes when I would go into them, other players would either already be in there, or enter it at roughly the same time I did. And some of them would have such powerful, fast flying starships (mostly high end Escorts), that many times I couldn't get to an enemy fast enough before it was killed outright. So I took it amongst to try and build a "similar" starship that could at least keep up, and you know what? I did (with a Hirogen Hunter Heavy Escort Cannon build).
So now, more often than not, it is me that's killing things super fast before others can do much of anything (which actually makes me feel bad sometimes, which is why I sometimes just sit back and watch them fight the good fight instead, and enjoy the game). And so, while I was not in any way competing with any of the great people I saw, flying great ships, with great builds, it did encourage me to try and do the same; as a challenge for me, and in that aspect, I was "competing" with myself. But in the end of the day, while competition can be good, one is only competing with oneself in STO. At least that's my viewpoint...
Yea they really screwed up with this idea. Nobody really runs ground content anymore, and when they do it's multiplayer TFO's where you can't even use your BOFFs. The only place I can think of that I ever use mine is the dyson sphere ground zone, and even then I think it's only 1 or 2 you get to take.
If they really wanted this to sell well, they'd make it apply to space as well. Space content is what people play the game for. Give elite bridge officers a Captain-level ability slot that is active if they're in a commander seating station, and let them train any captain ability for that slot based on their type (sci, eng, or tac). Imagine how useful it'd be to have an extra copy of photonic fleet, or Attack pattern alpha, or miracle worker?
ok, just my two cents here (anyone got any change by chance? lol), but after thinking about this for a while, maybe, just "maybe" the Dev's have done it this way to test the feature out in game for live (for times sake), before giving us something similar that would in fact affect space combat. We really don't know what happens behind the scenes so to speak, but I have seen this type of idea done in other games before, so it is possible that they did it as a first step before implementing such a big change as space would be (as STO is "more" about space instead of ground content). I can of course be wrong in this, but as I try and think outside the box, I figured it is possible at the very least. Again though, just my two cents here...
Yea they really screwed up with this idea. Nobody really runs ground content anymore, and when they do it's multiplayer TFO's where you can't even use your BOFFs. The only place I can think of that I ever use mine is the dyson sphere ground zone, and even then I think it's only 1 or 2 you get to take.
If they really wanted this to sell well, they'd make it apply to space as well. Space content is what people play the game for. Give elite bridge officers a Captain-level ability slot that is active if they're in a commander seating station, and let them train any captain ability for that slot based on their type (sci, eng, or tac). Imagine how useful it'd be to have an extra copy of photonic fleet, or Attack pattern alpha, or miracle worker?
They probably didn't do that because it would add too much power creep - at least in the case of the tactical captain abilities.
Maybe it could work if it meant giving players access to abilities of the other careers only - so that a Tac captain can use Photonic fleet and a Sci can get one Attack Pattern Alpha, but a Tac can not get two APA's.
Generally speaking though, I view this whole thing as something for completionists and maybe role players, people who just want to improve their crew by having some captains serve under the command of one admiral. I wouldn't be surprised if usefulness was never really the main concern.
Or, who knows. Maybe they're about to release new ground TFO's where we can use our Boffs. That could actually be an interesting new feature.
There is nothing "pay to win" about this and alot of people are confusing what they want with what they need. You don't need these boff tokens, you want these boff tokens. They're certainly a nice thing to have but definitely not required.
With regards to pay to win comments, there is no such thing as pay to win in STO. As another has already pointed out, there is no competition thus nothing to win. You don't get anything extra for having the top DPS in a TFO, and you're not winning anything if you have top DPS in a TFO either. Only thing you can "win" is potential bragging rights that you obliterated some NPCs in a video game and posted something on a 3rd party leader board. Congrats if that's what you enjoy but seriously, if these things are making or breaking people, you have much bigger issues to worry about.
Pay to win is something like what EA wanted to with the first modern Battlefront game. In that game there actually is competition and things to be won against other people. If you wanted the best of the best gear initially you had to buy lootboxes as you couldn't get them any other way unless you wanted to spend 40+ literal years unlocking everything. THAT is pay to win. With STO you're paying to skip grind it takes to unlock things by converting dilithium to zen. No pay to win at all.
Here we go with the deliberate and asinine misconstruing. Pay to win does not mean that you *REQUIRE* anything being offered. It's not about need. It's about *BUYING POWER* not available by any other means.
It's a "Free To Play" game. Microtransaction are HOW they make their money. And they want to offer things players will WANT to spend money on. Also, you don't bring your Boffs with you on Ground PvP - so sorry, the 'Pay To Win' analogy is moot BECAUSE of those two reasons. It may make ground combat easier against NPCs - but with no PvP element, there's really nothing to 'win' over anyone else.
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i dont get the point of this.
Bridge officers really dont need boosting in this way they do fine for the missons they are on and paying for it is just a awful decision regardless.
UNLESS they plan on adding a extra ability to a ship for eleite officers which would be a awful idea
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
So, quick question: how many folks have been trying unsuccessfully to get their hands on a VR Cardassian or Jem'Hadar BOFF? 🤔 This would be an answer to that. 😊
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So, quick question: how many folks have been trying unsuccessfully to get their hands on a VR Cardassian or Jem'Hadar BOFF? 🤔 This would be an answer to that. 😊
Hadn't thought of that to be fair.
But then again, I hardly care for traits in space. Cardassians are, like any species, added when they fit the crew or when I have a proper background story in mind for them.
So, quick question: how many folks have been trying unsuccessfully to get their hands on a VR Cardassian or Jem'Hadar BOFF? 🤔 This would be an answer to that. 😊
Hadn't thought of that to be fair.
But then again, I hardly care for traits in space. Cardassians are, like any species, added when they fit the crew or when I have a proper background story in mind for them.
I'm the same. I never bother with Embassy Romulan boffs for my non-Romulan captains, or with Pirates, the potato head, lizard science guy, ....
So, quick question: how many folks have been trying unsuccessfully to get their hands on a VR Cardassian or Jem'Hadar BOFF? 🤔 This would be an answer to that. 😊
Hadn't thought of that to be fair.
But then again, I hardly care for traits in space. Cardassians are, like any species, added when they fit the crew or when I have a proper background story in mind for them.
Many players would like to have certain BOFFs for aesthetic reasons, but would also like to have them at higher quality. One might sacrifice quality for the aesthetic, because that's more important to them. Now, they would no longer have to do that.
Additionally, aside from the Zen Store Vanguard Jem'Hadar BOFFs, I don't believe there's another way for Jem'Hadar captains to get VR Jem'Hadar BOFFs. At least I've never seen a Jem'Hadar BOFF recruitment DOFFing assignment. The only ones available to them are the Common ones at DS9.
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> @baddmoonrizin said: > So, quick question: how many folks have been trying unsuccessfully to get their hands on a VR Cardassian or Jem'Hadar BOFF? 🤔 This would be an answer to that. 😊
I want this, or something like a way to shuffle space traits.
Telbesta is right. BOFF upgrades would be more interesting to me if it had any baring on the space game. I can destroy ground content without my bridge crew, and ground traits and kits are currently cheap (maybe this will increase their demand though).
On the other hand, can you imagine the power creep if they gave these upgraded BOFFs additional space abilities too? That isn’t a great idea either.
It would have been better if they did it for both the Bridge crew and Ship crew at the same time then it be worth 500 zen. The idea is good solves some problems but cause more issues with the community then it solves might want to bring it up with Kael and such and all the issues it will cause. For me it is just the cost 500 zen really for one little item no worth the investment or my finical time for just one BOFF be a better investment on my end if it did either Bridge or ship crew.
What do you mean by "ship crew"? Because BOffs are pretty much it. They can be slotted into BOff stations and used on away teams. There is no "bridge crew" and "ship crew". There are only BOffs, and which ones you use.
So, quick question: how many folks have been trying unsuccessfully to get their hands on a VR Cardassian or Jem'Hadar BOFF? 🤔 This would be an answer to that. 😊
Hadn't thought of that to be fair.
But then again, I hardly care for traits in space. Cardassians are, like any species, added when they fit the crew or when I have a proper background story in mind for them.
Many players would like to have certain BOFFs for aesthetic reasons, but would also like to have them at higher quality. One might sacrifice quality for the aesthetic, because that's more important to them. Now, they would no longer have to do that.
Additionally, aside from the Zen Store Vanguard Jem'Hadar BOFFs, I don't believe there's another way for Jem'Hadar captains to get VR Jem'Hadar BOFFs. At least I've never seen a Jem'Hadar BOFF recruitment DOFFing assignment. The only ones available to them are the Common ones at DS9.
It would have been better if they did it for both the Bridge crew and Ship crew at the same time then it be worth 500 zen. The idea is good solves some problems but cause more issues with the community then it solves might want to bring it up with Kael and such and all the issues it will cause. For me it is just the cost 500 zen really for one little item no worth the investment or my finical time for just one BOFF be a better investment on my end if it did either Bridge or ship crew.
Yeah, have to echo my compatriot, no clue what you're talking about, dude. "Ship crew?" Your Bridge (Officers) crew are your ship crew. I don't understand why you're trying to make some distinction between those terms when there is none. If what you're trying to make a distinction between in Ground and Space, then ok. Also, not sure what "issues" you think this will cause, so can't advise Kael about what I don't know.
Anyway, the token upgrades ALL inherent Traits to maximum rank. That would include whatever Space Traits the BOFF already comes with, so... yeah, not understanding how even Space doesn't benefit from this. 🤷♀️ Just because you don't get an additional Space Trait, doesn't mean that the Space Traits the BOFF already has don't benefit from being maxed out.
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Please dont message me kinda tired of your harassing actions towards me and insults you throw my way.
no clue what you're talking about, dude., Was not needed at all
First, I didn't message you. I responded to a post that you made in a public forum. Anyone has the right to respond to any post in a public forum. I'd also like to point out that you were responding to my post, so it's rather hypocritical of you to demand that I "not message" you. Second, I'm not harassing you or insulting you by saying that I do not understand what you're talking about. You weren't at all clear in what you were referring to, which by the posts that followed seem to indicate that you're talking about DOFFs, which isn't even the subject of this thread. Third, you really need to figure out how to interact with other people and realize that everyone is not out to get you.
Like the ones that do R and D and such or can be sent too missions separate from where you are and such
Are you talking about Duty Officers? (Doffs) They do R&D and are sent on Duty Officer missions.
Bridge Officers (Boffs) don't and aren't. They inhabit your ship's bridge and/or away team.
Yeah, looks like he's talking about DOFFs, which again, makes no sense here. We're not talking about DOFFs. And we already have VR, UR and even Epic DOFFs, and the Fleet System is getting more added at the same time as the Elite BOFF tokens. So, a request for something that we already have really doesn't make sense.
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> @baddmoonrizin said: > > Anyway, the token upgrades ALL inherent Traits to maximum rank. That would include whatever Space Traits the BOFF already comes with, so... yeah, not understanding how even Space doesn't benefit from this. 🤷♀️ Just because you don't get an additional Space Trait, doesn't mean that the Space Traits the BOFF already has don't benefit from being maxed out.
The problem is some of these desirable traits don’t have superior versions, unless this update is creating “superior pirate.”
> @baddmoonrizin said:
>
> Anyway, the token upgrades ALL inherent Traits to maximum rank. That would include whatever Space Traits the BOFF already comes with, so... yeah, not understanding how even Space doesn't benefit from this. 🤷♀️ Just because you don't get an additional Space Trait, doesn't mean that the Space Traits the BOFF already has don't benefit from being maxed out.
The problem is some of these desirable traits don’t have superior versions, unless this update is creating “superior pirate.”
Who knows? 🤷♀️ I guess we'll see.
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For non-Romulans, you can buy other than the one Tactical Romulan Boff from the Fleet Embassy and get rhe Superior Romulan Operative Trait. Though this may be mooi as they are going yo be adding VR SRO Boffs to the Embassy Fleet Store shortly anyway.
Now, you may be able to snag that VR First Place prize from Crystalline Catastrophe. If that isn't 'pay-to-win' I don't know what is in this game.
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Comments
The problem is that it is not a sustainable sink.
I probably have 100 BOFFs across all my characters. I probably wouldn't upgrade all of them in this way, but others might.
So you're right that it's not totally sustainable, but I suspect that for many people, they'd buy the tokens piecemeal over a long period of time, so it might be 'nearly' sustainable. Does that make sense?
> I probably have 100 BOFFs across all my characters. I probably wouldn't upgrade all of them in this way, but others might.
>
> So you're right that it's not totally sustainable, but I suspect that for many people, they'd buy the tokens piecemeal over a long period of time, so it might be 'nearly' sustainable. Does that make sense?
Well, it is more like a Phoenix upgrade. Unless you are topping the DPS board you are probably going to get new gear and new boffs. So upgrading things like gear, boffs and ships for dilithum is the closest thing the game has to a potentially “sustainable” dilithium sink. If that is not “sustainable” by your definition than nothing is except perhaps something like an exchange tax or a transportation tax. A truly limitless dilithium sink is to charge dilithium for traveling or for playing normally.
You misunderstand. I'm saying that it is sustainable - even though eventually everyone will upgrade all the characters that they want to (so in that sense it's not), this will take long enough for most people that it could be considered sustainable I think.
I think a Phoenix upgrade is an excellent comparison to how I feel about it.
So now, more often than not, it is me that's killing things super fast before others can do much of anything (which actually makes me feel bad sometimes, which is why I sometimes just sit back and watch them fight the good fight instead, and enjoy the game). And so, while I was not in any way competing with any of the great people I saw, flying great ships, with great builds, it did encourage me to try and do the same; as a challenge for me, and in that aspect, I was "competing" with myself. But in the end of the day, while competition can be good, one is only competing with oneself in STO. At least that's my viewpoint...
Peace...
If they really wanted this to sell well, they'd make it apply to space as well. Space content is what people play the game for. Give elite bridge officers a Captain-level ability slot that is active if they're in a commander seating station, and let them train any captain ability for that slot based on their type (sci, eng, or tac). Imagine how useful it'd be to have an extra copy of photonic fleet, or Attack pattern alpha, or miracle worker?
Peace...
They probably didn't do that because it would add too much power creep - at least in the case of the tactical captain abilities.
Maybe it could work if it meant giving players access to abilities of the other careers only - so that a Tac captain can use Photonic fleet and a Sci can get one Attack Pattern Alpha, but a Tac can not get two APA's.
Generally speaking though, I view this whole thing as something for completionists and maybe role players, people who just want to improve their crew by having some captains serve under the command of one admiral. I wouldn't be surprised if usefulness was never really the main concern.
Or, who knows. Maybe they're about to release new ground TFO's where we can use our Boffs. That could actually be an interesting new feature.
It's a "Free To Play" game. Microtransaction are HOW they make their money. And they want to offer things players will WANT to spend money on. Also, you don't bring your Boffs with you on Ground PvP - so sorry, the 'Pay To Win' analogy is moot BECAUSE of those two reasons. It may make ground combat easier against NPCs - but with no PvP element, there's really nothing to 'win' over anyone else.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Bridge officers really dont need boosting in this way they do fine for the missons they are on and paying for it is just a awful decision regardless.
UNLESS they plan on adding a extra ability to a ship for eleite officers which would be a awful idea
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Hadn't thought of that to be fair.
But then again, I hardly care for traits in space. Cardassians are, like any species, added when they fit the crew or when I have a proper background story in mind for them.
I'm the same. I never bother with Embassy Romulan boffs for my non-Romulan captains, or with Pirates, the potato head, lizard science guy, ....
Many players would like to have certain BOFFs for aesthetic reasons, but would also like to have them at higher quality. One might sacrifice quality for the aesthetic, because that's more important to them. Now, they would no longer have to do that.
Additionally, aside from the Zen Store Vanguard Jem'Hadar BOFFs, I don't believe there's another way for Jem'Hadar captains to get VR Jem'Hadar BOFFs. At least I've never seen a Jem'Hadar BOFF recruitment DOFFing assignment. The only ones available to them are the Common ones at DS9.
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> So, quick question: how many folks have been trying unsuccessfully to get their hands on a VR Cardassian or Jem'Hadar BOFF? 🤔 This would be an answer to that. 😊
I want this, or something like a way to shuffle space traits.
Telbesta is right. BOFF upgrades would be more interesting to me if it had any baring on the space game. I can destroy ground content without my bridge crew, and ground traits and kits are currently cheap (maybe this will increase their demand though).
On the other hand, can you imagine the power creep if they gave these upgraded BOFFs additional space abilities too? That isn’t a great idea either.
What do you mean by "ship crew"? Because BOffs are pretty much it. They can be slotted into BOff stations and used on away teams. There is no "bridge crew" and "ship crew". There are only BOffs, and which ones you use.
Yeah, have to echo my compatriot, no clue what you're talking about, dude. "Ship crew?" Your Bridge (Officers) crew are your ship crew. I don't understand why you're trying to make some distinction between those terms when there is none. If what you're trying to make a distinction between in Ground and Space, then ok. Also, not sure what "issues" you think this will cause, so can't advise Kael about what I don't know.
Anyway, the token upgrades ALL inherent Traits to maximum rank. That would include whatever Space Traits the BOFF already comes with, so... yeah, not understanding how even Space doesn't benefit from this. 🤷♀️ Just because you don't get an additional Space Trait, doesn't mean that the Space Traits the BOFF already has don't benefit from being maxed out.
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Are you talking about Duty Officers? (Doffs) They do R&D and are sent on Duty Officer missions.
Bridge Officers (Boffs) don't and aren't. They inhabit your ship's bridge and/or away team.
First, I didn't message you. I responded to a post that you made in a public forum. Anyone has the right to respond to any post in a public forum. I'd also like to point out that you were responding to my post, so it's rather hypocritical of you to demand that I "not message" you. Second, I'm not harassing you or insulting you by saying that I do not understand what you're talking about. You weren't at all clear in what you were referring to, which by the posts that followed seem to indicate that you're talking about DOFFs, which isn't even the subject of this thread. Third, you really need to figure out how to interact with other people and realize that everyone is not out to get you.
Yeah, looks like he's talking about DOFFs, which again, makes no sense here. We're not talking about DOFFs. And we already have VR, UR and even Epic DOFFs, and the Fleet System is getting more added at the same time as the Elite BOFF tokens. So, a request for something that we already have really doesn't make sense.
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>
> Anyway, the token upgrades ALL inherent Traits to maximum rank. That would include whatever Space Traits the BOFF already comes with, so... yeah, not understanding how even Space doesn't benefit from this. 🤷♀️ Just because you don't get an additional Space Trait, doesn't mean that the Space Traits the BOFF already has don't benefit from being maxed out.
The problem is some of these desirable traits don’t have superior versions, unless this update is creating “superior pirate.”
Who knows? 🤷♀️ I guess we'll see.
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Now, you may be able to snag that VR First Place prize from Crystalline Catastrophe. If that isn't 'pay-to-win' I don't know what is in this game.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'