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Update on Rule Wording

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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,634 Community Moderator
    im not privy to the exact details as to why this came out, i can just take note that it appears that someone either got a real life threat (again, out of bounds) or they got butt hurt because people have come out in force now after the latest fiasco of incorrect information...and well...had enough.

    I can confirm... it was in response to a threat. It was reported by another forumite, I saw it and instantly went "oh shi..." and went to the Mod Chat to call for reenforcements. Outside of general confirmation, I don't know if its allowed to go into specifics or not so that's as far as I'll go. But again... this was in direct response to a threat.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 3,320 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    im not privy to the exact details as to why this came out, i can just take note that it appears that someone either got a real life threat (again, out of bounds) or they got butt hurt because people have come out in force now after the latest fiasco of incorrect information...and well...had enough.

    I can confirm... it was in response to a threat. It was reported by another forumite, I saw it and instantly went "oh shi..." and went to the Mod Chat to call for reenforcements. Outside of general confirmation, I don't know if its allowed to go into specifics or not so that's as far as I'll go. But again... this was in direct response to a threat.

    is it safe to say it was a physical threat or a "you should be fired" threat...

    cuz, to be honest, wording of being fired is an opinion from someone.

    again, dont need to get into details, but i guess some clarification as to why this came out and then the removal of the portion regarding threat to job, may help some people.

    im a front line worker, and i get threats all the time, to include that i should be fired...but they, just like forum members, dont have a say if it actually happens. unless lines are crossed by said employees of course.

    meh

  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,634 Community Moderator
    Physical.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • ussvaliant2#1952 ussvaliant2 Member Posts: 337 Arc User
    XfmRD7I.jpg
    [url=https://imgur.com/Mp3E8EH][img]http://i.imgur.com/Mp3E8EH.jpg[/img][/url]

    “If you have a problem figuring out whether you’re having Lag or Rubber-banding,” “then you ain’t playing Star Trek Online.”
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 7,240 Arc User
    edited August 27
    rattler2 wrote: »
    im not privy to the exact details as to why this came out, i can just take note that it appears that someone either got a real life threat (again, out of bounds) or they got butt hurt because people have come out in force now after the latest fiasco of incorrect information...and well...had enough.

    I can confirm... it was in response to a threat. It was reported by another forumite, I saw it and instantly went "oh shi..." and went to the Mod Chat to call for reenforcements. Outside of general confirmation, I don't know if its allowed to go into specifics or not so that's as far as I'll go. But again... this was in direct response to a threat.

    is it safe to say it was a physical threat or a "you should be fired" threat...

    cuz, to be honest, wording of being fired is an opinion from someone.

    again, dont need to get into details, but i guess some clarification as to why this came out and then the removal of the portion regarding threat to job, may help some people.

    im a front line worker, and i get threats all the time, to include that i should be fired...but they, just like forum members, dont have a say if it actually happens. unless lines are crossed by said employees of course.

    I saw the post. It was a very specific actual threat. As in a death threat giving details of how it would be carried out.

    In response to your earlier though, that "the original post has been edited"... the part that a lot of us are up in arms about - linking mentions of employment consequences to the anti-violence rule... is still there.

    As I said before, if they really really want to have a rule that "you can't say Kael should lose his job for incompetence"... at the very least it should be a separate rule and not part of the anti-violence rule.

    And to @darkbladejk - there's a difference between people being upset about game content and decisions, and about the accuracy/reliability of the event / new release blog posts. The thing that got me to where I am is very much the second one, and it would seem that's entirely under his control (if he wants it to be).
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 3,320 Arc User
    Real-Life Threats
    You may not create posts and/or private messages that allude to, contain language, comments, references, links, symbols, terms and/or imagery about and/or promote and/or otherwise support, in any manner whether directly or indirectly, violence or threats against another user, a member of the development team, or any other human being.

    unless its vague as it could be in this wording, there is no direct wording that indicated employment. maybe you saw a different post or something?

    im just curious to see it is all, and if this is it, it is rather vague and open to a lot of abuse.
    meh

  • qultuqqultuq Member Posts: 521 Arc User
    edited August 27
    Keep calm and read the OP a little more slowly:

    > @ambassadorkael#6946 said:
    > Hello folks,
    >
    > There has been an update to the rule regarding real life threats. Previously, it was worded poorly and seemed to indicate that only fellow users of the forum were protected from real life threats. This was never the case, and now the rule is clear. It reads:
    >
    > Real-Life Threats
    > You may not create posts and/or private messages that allude to, contain language, comments, references, links, symbols, terms and/or imagery about and/or promote and/or otherwise support, in any manner whether directly or indirectly, violence or threats against another user, a member of the development team, or any other human being.
    >
    > As players of STO, you are passionate and engaged and we love you for that. But threatening violence, real, imagined, or "just as a joke" will never be tolerated here. To be clear, THREATS ALSO INCLUDED WISHING SOMEONE WOULD LOOSE THEIR JOB. Let's be civil, and act like Star Trek fans.

    It is not clear the last paragraph is in the wording of the new “rule.” But the implication is clear that Kael is instructing the moderators to interpret it as such.
    Post edited by qultuq on
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 3,320 Arc User
    qultuq wrote: »
    Keep calm and read the OP a little more slowly:

    > @ambassadorkael#6946 said:
    > Hello folks,
    >
    > There has been an update to the rule regarding real life threats. Previously, it was worded poorly and seemed to indicate that only fellow users of the forum were protected from real life threats. This was never the case, and now the rule is clear. It reads:
    >
    > Real-Life Threats
    > You may not create posts and/or private messages that allude to, contain language, comments, references, links, symbols, terms and/or imagery about and/or promote and/or otherwise support, in any manner whether directly or indirectly, violence or threats against another user, a member of the development team, or any other human being.
    >
    > As players of STO, you are passionate and engaged and we love you for that. But threatening violence, real, imagined, or "just as a joke" will never be tolerated here. To be clear, THREATS ALSO INCLUDED WISHING SOMEONE WOULD LOOSE THEIR JOB. Let's be civil, and act like Star Trek fans.

    It is not clear the last paragraph is in the wording of the new “rule.” But the implication is clear that Kael is instructing the moderators to interpret it as such.

    thanks for showing me that. but not in the factual paragraph they are updating does it say that. the after thought it just kael making best efforts to protect himself.

    and for him to "add" that as a "protection" against people and tasking himself and others with banning people who even mention it, is out of bounds, just as physical threats.

    i dont know...maybe if one did the job, they wouldnt need to look at, hear, or be told, that one should lose ones job.

    do i want him to? im in the not really to sure category. (ill prob get banned now) is it a continual issue and concern that many people have brought up? yes. does he change and show effort to listen? nope. that then leads most of us to think of how we would be treated at our jobs...by saying goodbye to it.

    so no, in the main paragraph it is not worded to include, as it should not be. but to add it as a one off, is not civil, nor appropriate in any means. if you did the job, i doubt people would be asking for your termination. goes hand in hand.

    and now im rumbling...and should get ready to see the ban hammer.

    however, not to add more logs to the fire...but...the launcher still shows dates for "no win" of 8/13 to 8/16. not sure who is responsible for that, but this goes to show that they havent even updated that, and its been how many days now?

    /out
    meh

  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,634 Community Moderator
    The way I see it, we'll be interpreting it on a case by case basis. And personally I'd consider going after someone's employment status as a form of personal attack. ESPECIALLY considering the tone most people have been using recently which rates up there with threats. Its how it comes across that escalates things.

    Still... threats are an absolute red line and will not be tolerated.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 7,680 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    I will say, the threats described in the OP are disgraceful and completely unacceptable under any circumstances.

    However, I'm also going to note the irony in the lack of typos in the update to the rules & his Tweet, which demonstrate that he clearly can proof read...

    Or the legal department can..
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • nommo#5819 nommo Member Posts: 1,055 Arc User
    I had heard a little about this during the last livestream but still unaware of the details. There absolutely shouldn't be any threatening tolerated! Labeling a statement desiring someone wasn't in their current occupational position because of subjectively poor performance isn't a threat by itself though. It is sounding more like Cryptic is wanting to use a despicable threat example as an opportunity to quell any negative dissent & label it as a "threat". As one of the moderators previously stated though: their forums so their agenda & their rules. STO is a game to enjoy & no one deserves to be threatened because of it regardless of any mistakes or subjectively poor performance. I feel like Cryptic can handle those issues if they want to already.
  • trillbuffettrillbuffet Member Posts: 861 Arc User
    There are 2 fundamental things you never do in this game. The first one is not to threaten anyone and then second is you never say KDF players are not real fans. Its essentially just repeating yourself when you do that.

    Still tho lockboxes are the original no win scenario so I don't understand why there needed to be a double no win scenario event for the game.
  • qultuqqultuq Member Posts: 521 Arc User
    edited August 28
    The fact that we are even debating this means that our moderators are very reasonable, right.

    Besides if they started swinging around the ban hammer for foolhardy reasons—it could lead to bad publicity. I’m sure Massively OP would have a field day.

    But you know, “With great power, comes great idiocy.” So you all can do what you want. Just because it is a private server—it doesn’t mean the court of public opinion will side with you. Or maybe they would—I suppose it could go either way.

    Anyway, I am done with this thought experiment.
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,199 Community Moderator
    westmetals wrote: »
    As I said before, if they really really want to have a rule that "you can't say Kael should lose his job for incompetence"... at the very least it should be a separate rule and not part of the anti-violence rule.

    And to @darkbladejk - there's a difference between people being upset about game content and decisions, and about the accuracy/reliability of the event / new release blog posts. The thing that got me to where I am is very much the second one, and it would seem that's entirely under his control (if he wants it to be).

    A couple of things. First on this point, regardless of whether it's part of the anti-violence rule or its own separate thing, you've demonstrated you are capable of understanding said rule. As such I don't see an issue here. From an organizational standpoint I would classify the part about wishing job loss under the flaming/trolling rule but it is what it is. Folks aren't required to like every decision made, but the problem is too many have tried to disguise flaming/trolling and other behavior as "constructive criticism" when it's not. Point being folks understand the rule and I consider this argument a nit pick to find fault. In this instance the wish of job loss was made as part of the actual threat issued, thus its inclusion there from my understanding of it.

    Now in regards to making sure dates and blogs are accurate, we can go back and forth on that until the cows come home, but bottom line is that you can point out incorrect info without wanting someone fired in the process. If something is incorrect, point it out and we will make sure the team sees it.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,906 Arc User
    qultuq wrote: »
    Keep calm and read the OP a little more slowly:

    > @ambassadorkael#6946 said:
    > Hello folks,
    >
    > There has been an update to the rule regarding real life threats. Previously, it was worded poorly and seemed to indicate that only fellow users of the forum were protected from real life threats. This was never the case, and now the rule is clear. It reads:
    >
    > Real-Life Threats
    > You may not create posts and/or private messages that allude to, contain language, comments, references, links, symbols, terms and/or imagery about and/or promote and/or otherwise support, in any manner whether directly or indirectly, violence or threats against another user, a member of the development team, or any other human being.
    >
    > As players of STO, you are passionate and engaged and we love you for that. But threatening violence, real, imagined, or "just as a joke" will never be tolerated here. To be clear, THREATS ALSO INCLUDED WISHING SOMEONE WOULD LOOSE THEIR JOB. Let's be civil, and act like Star Trek fans.

    It is not clear the last paragraph is in the wording of the new “rule.” But the implication is clear that Kael is instructing the moderators to interpret it as such.

    thanks for showing me that. but not in the factual paragraph they are updating does it say that. the after thought it just kael making best efforts to protect himself.

    and for him to "add" that as a "protection" against people and tasking himself and others with banning people who even mention it, is out of bounds, just as physical threats.

    i dont know...maybe if one did the job, they wouldnt need to look at, hear, or be told, that one should lose ones job.

    do i want him to? im in the not really to sure category. (ill prob get banned now) is it a continual issue and concern that many people have brought up? yes. does he change and show effort to listen? nope. that then leads most of us to think of how we would be treated at our jobs...by saying goodbye to it.

    so no, in the main paragraph it is not worded to include, as it should not be. but to add it as a one off, is not civil, nor appropriate in any means. if you did the job, i doubt people would be asking for your termination. goes hand in hand.

    and now im rumbling...and should get ready to see the ban hammer.

    however, not to add more logs to the fire...but...the launcher still shows dates for "no win" of 8/13 to 8/16. not sure who is responsible for that, but this goes to show that they havent even updated that, and its been how many days now?

    /out

    (Emphasis added.)

    This statement is both false as well as circular reasoning.

    By saying 'they asked for it', you can justify anything - which is exactly what they want to prevent, for good reasons.

    There'll always be someone who thinks somebody else isn't fit for what he does. There's no guarantee that even doing a stellar job will avoid criticism. The world - and certainly the internet - simply doesn't work like that. Besides that, the mere fact that someone has that opinion, doesn't make the opinion itself factual, as much as 'they asked for it'-rhetoric tries to suggest that.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,906 Arc User
    qultuq wrote: »
    The fact that we are even debating this means that our moderators are very reasonable, right.

    Besides if they started swinging around the ban hammer for foolhardy reasons—it could lead to bad publicity. I’m sure Massively OP would have a field day.

    But you know, “With great power, comes great idiocy.” So you all can do what you want. Just because it is a private server—it doesn’t mean the court of public opinion will side with you. Or maybe they would—I suppose it could go either way.

    Anyway, I am done with this thought experiment.

    The idea that people would be banned for no reason at all is ludicrous anyway.

    The Forum hasn't been so calm and orderly for years.

    People loved Trendy, but things were clearly more chaotic while she was our CM. Trolls could do whatever they wanted, you'd see thread (notice the -d here) starters with red-banned icons on the first page on a regular basis and many players being banned in general. Including some very well-behaved people like the grand nagus who - as far as I'm aware - have never made threats against anyone.

    I have/had no clear preference for Kael, Trendy, Smirk or the guy who's still around as a player and whose name I forgot. Some did some things better than others, others did some other things better than some.
    But after Kael took charge of things here, the most fanatical flamethrower fans were kicked out while everybody else has since had less reason to fear being kicked.

    I've criticised Cryptic very often, intensively, and I've never even had a temporal lock placed on my icon in what must be almost ten years now. Just like many other forumites.

    Players can criticise every decision here. You just need to make sure your comments are substantiated and actually about the game.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,906 Arc User
    westmetals wrote: »
    As I said before, if they really really want to have a rule that "you can't say Kael should lose his job for incompetence"... at the very least it should be a separate rule and not part of the anti-violence rule.

    And to @darkbladejk - there's a difference between people being upset about game content and decisions, and about the accuracy/reliability of the event / new release blog posts. The thing that got me to where I am is very much the second one, and it would seem that's entirely under his control (if he wants it to be).

    A couple of things. First on this point, regardless of whether it's part of the anti-violence rule or its own separate thing, you've demonstrated you are capable of understanding said rule. As such I don't see an issue here. From an organizational standpoint I would classify the part about wishing job loss under the flaming/trolling rule but it is what it is. Folks aren't required to like every decision made, but the problem is too many have tried to disguise flaming/trolling and other behavior as "constructive criticism" when it's not. Point being folks understand the rule and I consider this argument a nit pick to find fault. In this instance the wish of job loss was made as part of the actual threat issued, thus its inclusion there from my understanding of it.

    Now in regards to making sure dates and blogs are accurate, we can go back and forth on that until the cows come home, but bottom line is that you can point out incorrect info without wanting someone fired in the process. If something is incorrect, point it out and we will make sure the team sees it.

    (Emphasis added.)

    True, and many people would do good to learn that.

    At the same time, I think it's fair to expect improvement at some point. It's not surprising players get tired of having to point out mistakes. Especially when they're not paid to do so.

    I hardly care about these things myself as the relevant menu's inside the game itself usually at least have the right times - but I can see why the tone of the debate gets more offensive after repeated mistakes. Regardless of how unacceptable and unnecessarily inflammatory some of the things that were said remain.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,906 Arc User
    edited August 28
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    qultuq wrote: »
    The fact that we are even debating this means that our moderators are very reasonable, right.

    Besides if they started swinging around the ban hammer for foolhardy reasons—it could lead to bad publicity. I’m sure Massively OP would have a field day.

    But you know, “With great power, comes great idiocy.” So you all can do what you want. Just because it is a private server—it doesn’t mean the court of public opinion will side with you. Or maybe they would—I suppose it could go either way.

    Anyway, I am done with this thought experiment.

    The idea that people would be banned for no reason at all is ludicrous anyway.

    The Forum hasn't been so calm and orderly for years.

    People loved Trendy, but things were clearly more chaotic while she was our CM. Trolls could do whatever they wanted, you'd see thread (notice the -d here) starters with red-banned icons on the first page on a regular basis and many players being banned in general. Including some very well-behaved people like the grand nagus who - as far as I'm aware - have never made threats against anyone.

    I have/had no clear preference for Kael, Trendy, Smirk or the guy who's still around as a player and whose name I forgot. Some did some things better than others, others did some other things better than some.
    But after Kael took charge of things here, the most fanatical flamethrower fans were kicked out while everybody else has since had less reason to fear being kicked.

    I've criticised Cryptic very often, intensively, and I've never even had a temporal lock placed on my icon in what must be almost ten years now. Just like many other forumites.

    Players can criticise every decision here. You just need to make sure your comments are substantiated and actually about the game.

    I'm sorry...but you think the forum is calm and orderly under Kael?!? SERIOUSLY?!? The forum has never been on fire this much since delta rising...and that flame fest was about something happening in the game...not something the community manager is doing. When you as the community manager is the cause of a forum fire...you most certainly are doing SOMETHING wrong. Smirk caused a few in his days...but NOTHING on the level of Kael.

    As for Grandnagus getting banned...yes...he is in general well behaved. IN GENERAL. And what does the fact that he was banned have to do with the moron who called for physical threats? You do realize that you can and should get a temporary ban for things that are far...FAR below calling for physical violence.

    As for banning people...none of the CMs actually do/did that themselves. They MAYBE give guidelines to their mods...but it's the mods that makes the call. If you as a player have an issue or concerns, you are suppose to contact the CM about it. The problem is, Kael doesn't care...you can contact him about any issues or concerns all you want and he ignore it. He doesn't even have the common curtesy to send a copy paste response back. Trendy and hell even Smirk would get back to you if you DM them about an issue or concern. Smirk's was more copy paste, Trendy's reply showed she read and thought about what you said...even if you see no change. So...at BEST, you can say Kael has put better mods in charge.

    Finally, I'm sorry, but when as a mod or CM has to use their position to say don't come after my position...yeah they probably should not have it after that. That is of course a general rule of thumb as there are instances where it fine...but in most cases, after that happens, things tend to get worse for the bad that caused that statement to begin with and it shows a rather clear sign that you do not understand community management.

    Just sharing my impression. Yours may be different. That's fine.

    I guess it also depends on what you expect from a CM. For me, that's two things, in order of personal importance:

    1. Keeping forumites in line, ensuring that discussions on here can be civil and with honest purposes (yes, it's the mods who are mostly doing that for him, but that difference doesn't really matter imo, as he's still responsible for granting that authority).
    2. Providing us with information.

    As I mentioned, in my opinion (again, impressions may vary) things have clearly improved when looking at the first point. The trolls who were just out to provoke people are gone, players aren't banned for seemingly no good reason at all, the most severe intervention that's necessary nowadays (in general) is closing necro threads.

    The second point isn't all that important to me personally. Yes, it's part of his job and yes, he should do better for that reason alone. Or let someone else take care of it if he has too many other responsibilities or whatever the reason may be.

    But I honestly don't care that much about this second point; all the information related to timing of events can be gotten from the game itself too. That's not an excuse for bad performance and repeatedly making mistakes, it's just why I think the first point is much more important and why I think not everything has been as bad as people claim. Then again, it might simply be that I've stopped expecting correct information from outside the game, about the game, who knows.


    (And to be honest, I had this opinion before this whole incident happened and the change to the rules that are described in the OP were announced. So far I've simply not let that determine my overall opinion too much.
    I can see why you think that fencing of one's own position at the company isn't the greatest move thinkable though. At least not before improvements have been shown and some other efforts been made. I don't necessarily disagree about that, but again, my overall opinion is determined more by other factors.)
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 7,240 Arc User
    edited August 28
    westmetals wrote: »
    As I said before, if they really really want to have a rule that "you can't say Kael should lose his job for incompetence"... at the very least it should be a separate rule and not part of the anti-violence rule.

    And to @darkbladejk - there's a difference between people being upset about game content and decisions, and about the accuracy/reliability of the event / new release blog posts. The thing that got me to where I am is very much the second one, and it would seem that's entirely under his control (if he wants it to be).

    A couple of things. First on this point, regardless of whether it's part of the anti-violence rule or its own separate thing, you've demonstrated you are capable of understanding said rule. As such I don't see an issue here. From an organizational standpoint I would classify the part about wishing job loss under the flaming/trolling rule but it is what it is. Folks aren't required to like every decision made, but the problem is too many have tried to disguise flaming/trolling and other behavior as "constructive criticism" when it's not. Point being folks understand the rule and I consider this argument a nit pick to find fault. In this instance the wish of job loss was made as part of the actual threat issued, thus its inclusion there from my understanding of it.

    Now in regards to making sure dates and blogs are accurate, we can go back and forth on that until the cows come home, but bottom line is that you can point out incorrect info without wanting someone fired in the process. If something is incorrect, point it out and we will make sure the team sees it.

    The thing is that, for the last two years or so, the majority of blogs have been wrong, in the basic ways that I mentioned, and it's been pointed out almost every time by multiple players... and corrected after the fact... and yet he's not taking steps to prevent it from happening again. Not even to reduce the frequency.

    It is that lack of care to do anything about it, that has me (and I presume other players) upset.

    I realize that the actual decisions (what the events, rewards, or dates ARE) may not be under his control, but his presentation of them very much is.

    And at some point, when an employee's job performance is unsatisfactory and shows no sign of improvement...
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 3,760 Arc User
    It could just be the fact that he works on multiple games, perhaps he likes and spends time working on the other(s) more than STO (CO does not seem to have quite as many problems for instance, though it is not entirely immune to them either).
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,676 Arc User
    edited August 28
    It could just be the fact that he works on multiple games, perhaps he likes and spends time working on the other(s) more than STO (CO does not seem to have quite as many problems for instance, though it is not entirely immune to them either).

    Stop making excuses for him, rather he works on other games or not, we still have a right to accurate information. If he needs help disseminating that information then he should ask someone for help, that's on him. His job is to pass on information and he's simply not doing it.

    People also blame the pandemic which is also no excuse. Many of us were relocated from our offices with co-workers to a work from home environment, I am one of them. After a brief period of re-adjustment, my company made it clear that even though we now work from home we're responsible for maintaining the same level of productivity that we did at the office.

    People keep making excuses for him and he keeps doing a terrible job. If there is a reason why he can't do better, we will never know because of course.. he won't talk to anyone. The only time he communicates with the player base is to pass on incorrect information, and that is completely unacceptable.
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    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,634 Community Moderator
    The way I understand it he's having to manage MULTIPLE platforms, including Twitter, Reddit, Facebook, the Forums...

    And if he is having to manage stuff for multiple games as well... that's honsetly a lot of pressure on one guy to do multiple things.

    For all we know... he could be working on one thing, then asked to do another like the guy in Office Space just waltzing up and asking for TPS reports as "that would be great."

    As mentioned above, if there are errors we'll pass it along.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,676 Arc User
    edited August 28
    rattler2 wrote: »
    The way I understand it he's having to manage MULTIPLE platforms, including Twitter, Reddit, Facebook, the Forums...

    And if he is having to manage stuff for multiple games as well... that's honsetly a lot of pressure on one guy to do multiple things.

    For all we know... he could be working on one thing, then asked to do another like the guy in Office Space just waltzing up and asking for TPS reports as "that would be great."

    As mentioned above, if there are errors we'll pass it along.

    He makes one factually incorrect article and then passes it on to all those platforms.

    He then usually has to spend more time going back and cleaning it all up when people are confused. He would actually save himself a ton of time if he just spent a few minutes on that initial release instead of just finding any old blog, copying it and pasting it and then having to go back and fix it.

    Our suggestion that he spend more time validating his information would actually save him time.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,199 Community Moderator
    For folks saying he needs to validate information better and check for inaccuracies, what are you proposed solutions to make sure there are no issues within reason? What are your proposed solutions that don't overload him or any folks that may help him? From statements I've heard him make in the past on streams and elsewhere, he doesn't just draft everything himself all the time. Otherwise this thread has gone way off course at this juncture.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,676 Arc User
    edited August 28
    For folks saying he needs to validate information better and check for inaccuracies, what are you proposed solutions to make sure there are no issues within reason? What are your proposed solutions that don't overload him or any folks that may help him? From statements I've heard him make in the past on streams and elsewhere, he doesn't just draft everything himself all the time. Otherwise this thread has gone way off course at this juncture.

    How are we supposed to answer that when we don't know how information is passed internally?

    If he's getting bad information then he needs to speak to his co-workers and they need to come up with a way to get more accurate information. Passing on wrong information every single week is not how any other game works, it's not how things should be. He is the Community Manager, he is responsible for passing on the information and if there is a break in the chain somewhere, he needs to go to that person and work on the fix.

    We obviously cannot propose specifics, nor should we have to. The end result is, the player base deserves to have accurate information, lets not try and say that's too much to ask. We aren't asking for anything that any rational person would consider unreasonable.

    I take your point though, I will stop now. I know I am wasting my time, he won't read this and nothing will ever change. Many of us are venting because we're frustrated and if you want to be honest, it's getting more and more difficult to do so respectfully so it's probably best that I stop.

    I'll stop now.. message received.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 7,240 Arc User
    edited August 28
    For folks saying he needs to validate information better and check for inaccuracies, what are you proposed solutions to make sure there are no issues within reason? What are your proposed solutions that don't overload him or any folks that may help him? From statements I've heard him make in the past on streams and elsewhere, he doesn't just draft everything himself all the time. Otherwise this thread has gone way off course at this juncture.

    "he doesn't just draft everything himself all the time"

    I didn't expect that he does. That's why I have been saying... proofreading.

    Proofreading to make sure that:

    (in the case of event blogs)

    The event being announced is consistently called the same thing
    The event dates are correct
    The event rewards are correct

    Those three things would be a huge improvement... at least half of the blogs that have gone out under his name have been wrong in at least one of those three things. That's why it's so infuriating... it's all the time and there has been no improvement.

    As just two examples, the recent Red Alert event had wrong rewards, and the current No Win/Sompek event had wrong dates.

    For the weekly patch notes, ship releases, etc... etc... the date.

    Simply proofreading before posting would take what, five minutes MAYBE?
    Post edited by westmetals on
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 3,320 Arc User
    edited August 29
    PS...

    case in point...

    as mentioned before by myself and others, the launcher still shows the "no win" dates of 8/13 to 8/16...

    it was posted in several threads, as well as a post in this above by me. and yet it hasnt been corrected.

    @darkbladejk
    meh

  • lorien506lorien506 Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    Hello folks,

    There has been an update to the rule regarding real life threats. Previously, it was worded poorly and seemed to indicate that only fellow users of the forum were protected from real life threats. This was never the case, and now the rule is clear. It reads:

    Real-Life Threats
    You may not create posts and/or private messages that allude to, contain language, comments, references, links, symbols, terms and/or imagery about and/or promote and/or otherwise support, in any manner whether directly or indirectly, violence or threats against another user, a member of the development team, or any other human being.


    As players of STO, you are passionate and engaged and we love you for that. But threatening violence, real, imagined, or "just as a joke" will never be tolerated here. To be clear, threats also include wishing someone would lose their job. Let's be civil, and act like Star Trek fans.

    As I understand it, "someone" wished one of the staff to loose his job because he was not ok with the work done bye the recipient.
    I'm not sure this qualifies for such a drastic action on your behalf.
    It is very clear to all the players of STO (that are playings this game longer than just a few month) that the quality of it's content as well as the quality of the community management has degraded over the time.

    Long time players and their complaints aren't heard or recognized as it seems. Major issues aren't deald with. So it is very clear that the community isn't to happy about that. To be clear, I'm talking about the part of the community that actually spends money or did spend money on that game. So basically they are responsible that a lot of those guys working on the game can still do that and have a job to pay their bills.
    So if they are individuals that do their job very poorly and are still get paid instead of said incompetents and don't improve I really can feel why some people might write something like said outburst.

    In my opinion, this should be take as a wake up call to the guys of CM and the crew of STO in general, to improve their working ethics.
    The game only has a future if the players are satisfied with the game and it's content.
    This satisfaction is declining constantly during the last couple of years and not because of the new area of Trek that begun with Discovery. The game has it's own big issues and it's time they are going to be fixed ASAP.
This discussion has been closed.