if the skill invalid bug is not a bug and is intentional due to rewriting code when why the hell is it not mentioned anywhere in patch notes, that is a very very stupid thing to do without even mentioning it to the player base, this should be clear in patch notes and on launcher and a big freaking popup in game.
You would be surprised how bad the documentation is on a very large software project like a game. In a way it is even a good sign since it means the programmers are concentrating on the code and not the docs.
They did some database work obviously, and that is the thing that can cause the most bugs because it is literally everywhere in programs like these. There will probably be bugs for a while, with the worst ones getting the most attention and the more subtle ones could easily be with us for week or months, and they are not the kind of things you throw outside programmers at to fix faster (usually that has the opposite effect).
In a way it is even a good sign since it means the programmers are concentrating on the code and not the docs.
No, it's not a good thing in any way, at all.
I do understand bugs and mistakes happen, and while they aren't "ok" it is at least normal in games. That's fine.
But saying things not being documented is some kind of "good sign" is just...not true. It's fine to defend the game and the devs, but that is not the way to do it.
But saying things not being documented is some kind of "good sign" is just...not true. It's fine to defend the game and the devs, but that is not the way to do it.
Agreed, especially since Borticus said on Reddit (obviously, he can't be bothered to remember that this is the official forum) that they "intended to list it in the patch notes". How can you forget something like that is beside me, truly.
In the end, they didn't and I agree: this is not a good sign at all. It's just more lack of communication on their parts.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Good on them for actually caring enough to to do that
Nice deflection.
My post wasn't deflection. The deflection was trying to use the bugs/mistakes in a completely different game to justify/excuse the bugs/mistakes in this game.
I know, you were trying to say that it's common in all games, right? While true, consider someone using "it's common in all games" logic in the opposite way:
Someone posts a thread saying how awesome the new episode is. They are really happy and they really love it. Then someone replies and says "yeah, a lot of games have awesome missions. This other game I play has this really awesome mission too; yadda yadda yadda. Long story short, the awesome mission in this game is just normal!"
See how ridiculous that sounds? And I'm guessing you would be "all over" that post, tearing it down in every possible way from "that other game is off topic" to "the devs of this game should get the credit for their own work regardless of what is happening in other games".
Well guess what? Those same retorts are equally true here. The stuff about GW2 is off topic here, and the devs of this game should get the credit(good or bad) for their own work regardless of what is happening in other games.
You can't have it both ways. If you want to use the bad things in other games to excuse/justify the bad things here, then you should also be posting about the good things in other games any time someone posts a thread about something they like in this game. But the fact is, you shouldn't be doing either of those things because this is the STO forums.
Somtaawkhar and thegrandnagus1... you guys should hop on the phone to hash out your differences. Live conversation can do wonders for conflicting a-type/passive-aggressive type personalities. You will never come to terms with one another via forum postings.
It often appears that you folks are an old married couple? Maybe you are. **shrugs**
Jeez, all I know is the Cryptic Neverwinter Patch Notes on the same day as the STO Patch was long and extensive, fixing bugs and other things. They are probably not resting on the IP to keep the momentum.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
But what is the actual "point" you are trying to make with that statement. Technical difficulties are industry wide, so....?
So people shouldn't be upset with them here if they are everywhere? What is the actual "takeaway" thought you are trying to make?
Are you being deliberately obtuse for the sake of it?
Please answer the question rather than go ad hominem. What is the actual point you are trying to make by replying to a thread about bugs in this game and talking about the industry wide issue?
Bugs are industry wide, so...? What is the point are you trying to make? That the OP shouldn't be upset about them? Please clarify.
Please answer the question rather than go ad hominem. What is the actual point you are trying to make by replying to a thread about bugs in this game and talking about the industry wide issue?
Bugs are industry wide, so...? What is the point are you trying to make? That the OP shouldn't be upset about them? Please clarify.
A. that isn't what Ad homenem means
B. I never responded to the OP, I responded to saurializard. So, maybe you should go back and read the thread, since you apparently didn't the first time.
Until you do I'm not going to bother replying, since it seems to me like your just trying ti pick a fight for some unknown reason.
Ok, since you won't actually answer my question I'll open it up to other folks reading. What do you think Som's point in bringing up industry wide bugs was? Do you think he was trying to "lessen" the blame being put on Cryptic by citing examples of bugs in other games?
> @ltminns said: > Well, I guess the Developer who programmed the free Phoenix Pack giveaway left Cryptic and no one that's left knows how to do it. He went and joined the guy who programmed the Featured Episode Rerun Event's free daily Lobo (sic) who left Cryptic and no one else could figure out how to do it.
Already sarcastically answered. T'Ress we hardly knew ye.
I lost no Characters, but did now notice about the Skills Invalid. You know if they had implemented a Save Skills like people requested (Skill Loadout), this current kerfuffle would easily have been mitigated. Two 'Skill Loadouts' free, if they wanted to sell more, have at it and they could still charge for the Respec when using the 'Loadout'.
Very little is ever tested on Tribble anymore.
Even if the Developers had given notice in Patch Notes to the Community Management Team, it would have been mangled in some manner anyway.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Jeez, all I know is the Cryptic Neverwinter Patch Notes on the same day as the STO Patch was long and extensive, fixing bugs and other things. They are probably not resting on the IP to keep the momentum.
Could it be that the IP holders for that game actually care about the products associated with it
You should make this your global policy since I think we have all had about enough of your pointless TRIBBLE kissing and brown nosing.
Please, feel free to 'punish' us all by continuing to STFU.
ROFL, we will never be so blessed.
P.S.: ad hominem (not ad homenem) means exactly what our gradnagus implied: you're not offering a counter argument to his statement but to him directly. But please, as sea already said: feel free to continue punishing us with your silence.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
You know if they had implemented a Save Skills like people requested (Skill Loadout)
Man, I would LOVE this! So many skills are very ship-specific; e.g. the one that adds damage to shield drain powers. It's so easy to switch ships, it should be easy to switch their skills.
As of this morning 12AM EST time the phoenix mission was still botched completely.
0 boxes since yesterday retrieved Still waiting on official word on the forums regarding malfunctions hapening today.
did they annouce they were gonna do the free phoenix box again? I dont recall it... but then I dont go to twitter or fb. it could just be a bug where you see the quest up but you cant take cause its not really up.... I see a number of promos I had claimed previous show up as available again... but when you claim you get an error message saying you cant.
Well, I guess the Developer who programmed the free Phoenix Pack giveaway left Cryptic and no one that's left knows how to do it. He went and joined the guy who programmed the Featured Episode Rerun Event's free daily Lobo (sic) who left Cryptic and no one else could figure out how to do it.
Please answer the question rather than go ad hominem. What is the actual point you are trying to make by replying to a thread about bugs in this game and talking about the industry wide issue?
Bugs are industry wide, so...? What is the point are you trying to make? That the OP shouldn't be upset about them? Please clarify.
A. that isn't what Ad homenem means
B. I never responded to the OP, I responded to saurializard. So, maybe you should go back and read the thread, since you apparently didn't the first time.
Until you do I'm not going to bother replying, since it seems to me like your just trying ti pick a fight for some unknown reason.
Ok, since you won't actually answer my question I'll open it up to other folks reading. What do you think sometalker's point in bringing up industry wide bugs was? Do you think he was trying to "lessen" the blame being put on Cryptic by citing examples of bugs in other games?
Yes, and considering he tries to do similar things a lot(almost every topic), there are a lot times i wondered if he is the alt account of a dev or quality assurance member - in other words having personal ties to Cryptic
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
Being passionate about something doesn't mean they are secretly part of it.
Som, at least to me, comes across as someone who cares about the game, but is on the opposite side of the outrage spectrum. He's not in the "Attack Cryptic for Existing" camp.
We have all kinds of people here, ranging from Paladin level defenders to Sith Lord Ragers, and everything in between. Its just that, at LEAST this year, the Sith Lord Ragers are in overdrive cranking the dial to 11 at the drop of a hat. Literally going pure Hulk Smash. And its gotten so bad that even some of the more moderate Forumites are getting labled as "White Knights" or even the rather insulting "Apologists".
There have been a couple times I've been hit by this even after explaining my reasoning. Its just dismiss the reasoning, slap an insulting label on to try and discredit future arguments, and go back to raging. Any dissent against the rage must be retaliated against because obviously they're agents of the enemy.
Comments
You would be surprised how bad the documentation is on a very large software project like a game. In a way it is even a good sign since it means the programmers are concentrating on the code and not the docs.
They did some database work obviously, and that is the thing that can cause the most bugs because it is literally everywhere in programs like these. There will probably be bugs for a while, with the worst ones getting the most attention and the more subtle ones could easily be with us for week or months, and they are not the kind of things you throw outside programmers at to fix faster (usually that has the opposite effect).
No, it's not a good thing in any way, at all.
I do understand bugs and mistakes happen, and while they aren't "ok" it is at least normal in games. That's fine.
But saying things not being documented is some kind of "good sign" is just...not true. It's fine to defend the game and the devs, but that is not the way to do it.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Agreed, especially since Borticus said on Reddit (obviously, he can't be bothered to remember that this is the official forum) that they "intended to list it in the patch notes". How can you forget something like that is beside me, truly.
In the end, they didn't and I agree: this is not a good sign at all. It's just more lack of communication on their parts.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
My post wasn't deflection. The deflection was trying to use the bugs/mistakes in a completely different game to justify/excuse the bugs/mistakes in this game.
I know, you were trying to say that it's common in all games, right? While true, consider someone using "it's common in all games" logic in the opposite way:
Someone posts a thread saying how awesome the new episode is. They are really happy and they really love it. Then someone replies and says "yeah, a lot of games have awesome missions. This other game I play has this really awesome mission too; yadda yadda yadda. Long story short, the awesome mission in this game is just normal!"
See how ridiculous that sounds? And I'm guessing you would be "all over" that post, tearing it down in every possible way from "that other game is off topic" to "the devs of this game should get the credit for their own work regardless of what is happening in other games".
Well guess what? Those same retorts are equally true here. The stuff about GW2 is off topic here, and the devs of this game should get the credit(good or bad) for their own work regardless of what is happening in other games.
You can't have it both ways. If you want to use the bad things in other games to excuse/justify the bad things here, then you should also be posting about the good things in other games any time someone posts a thread about something they like in this game. But the fact is, you shouldn't be doing either of those things because this is the STO forums.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
It often appears that you folks are an old married couple? Maybe you are. **shrugs**
But what is the actual "point" you are trying to make with that statement. Technical difficulties are industry wide, so....?
So people shouldn't be upset with them here if they are everywhere? What is the actual "takeaway" thought you are trying to make?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Please answer the question rather than go ad hominem. What is the actual point you are trying to make by replying to a thread about bugs in this game and talking about the industry wide issue?
Bugs are industry wide, so...? What is the point are you trying to make? That the OP shouldn't be upset about them? Please clarify.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Ok, since you won't actually answer my question I'll open it up to other folks reading. What do you think Som's point in bringing up industry wide bugs was? Do you think he was trying to "lessen" the blame being put on Cryptic by citing examples of bugs in other games?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Or lack of self-awareness, one of these.
Also, I'm technically the original poster in this situation since you started your fight by using my reply.
Also, thank you, devs and the folks responsible for the release notes, for "properly warning" us about the skill issues.
You should make this your global policy since I think we have all had about enough of your pointless TRIBBLE kissing and brown nosing.
Please, feel free to 'punish' us all by continuing to STFU.
> Well, I guess the Developer who programmed the free Phoenix Pack giveaway left Cryptic and no one that's left knows how to do it. He went and joined the guy who programmed the Featured Episode Rerun Event's free daily Lobo (sic) who left Cryptic and no one else could figure out how to do it.
Already sarcastically answered. T'Ress we hardly knew ye.
I lost no Characters, but did now notice about the Skills Invalid. You know if they had implemented a Save Skills like people requested (Skill Loadout), this current kerfuffle would easily have been mitigated. Two 'Skill Loadouts' free, if they wanted to sell more, have at it and they could still charge for the Respec when using the 'Loadout'.
Very little is ever tested on Tribble anymore.
Even if the Developers had given notice in Patch Notes to the Community Management Team, it would have been mangled in some manner anyway.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Could it be that the IP holders for that game actually care about the products associated with it
ROFL, we will never be so blessed.
P.S.: ad hominem (not ad homenem) means exactly what our gradnagus implied: you're not offering a counter argument to his statement but to him directly. But please, as sea already said: feel free to continue punishing us with your silence.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Man, I would LOVE this! So many skills are very ship-specific; e.g. the one that adds damage to shield drain powers. It's so easy to switch ships, it should be easy to switch their skills.
Cryptic only yanks down the servers if there's a bug that HELPS players. There are plenty of bugs that hurt players they never bother to fix.
0 boxes since yesterday retrieved Still waiting on official word on the forums regarding malfunctions hapening today.
arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
Can confirm. Not working as of this post time.
arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
Yes, and considering he tries to do similar things a lot(almost every topic), there are a lot times i wondered if he is the alt account of a dev or quality assurance member - in other words having personal ties to Cryptic
Som, at least to me, comes across as someone who cares about the game, but is on the opposite side of the outrage spectrum. He's not in the "Attack Cryptic for Existing" camp.
We have all kinds of people here, ranging from Paladin level defenders to Sith Lord Ragers, and everything in between. Its just that, at LEAST this year, the Sith Lord Ragers are in overdrive cranking the dial to 11 at the drop of a hat. Literally going pure Hulk Smash. And its gotten so bad that even some of the more moderate Forumites are getting labled as "White Knights" or even the rather insulting "Apologists".
There have been a couple times I've been hit by this even after explaining my reasoning. Its just dismiss the reasoning, slap an insulting label on to try and discredit future arguments, and go back to raging. Any dissent against the rage must be retaliated against because obviously they're agents of the enemy.
And its only getting worse.