The rule for how things are sold or given away in this game is simple: What will make the most money for Cryptic?
I know this comes as a surprise to some of you, but Cryptic Studios is a business. They have to pay for the facility they occupy; they have to pay for their internet connectivity; they have to pay for the server farm, such as it is; they have to pay salaries to all of their employees, whether programmers, artists, or the guy who sweeps up after everyone leaves; and I can only have nightmares about their electric bills.
If you want things to happen in STO, they have to make money. Sometimes they will make money in a fashion of which you personally disapprove. If enough people disapprove of it, profit will not be made, and the method will change. If it continues, that means they're making money on it, not that they dislike you personally.
If all of this disappoints you, by all means, work however you can to move our society past a scarcity economy. I will do everything in my rather limited power to support your efforts! Until then, though, the situation is as it is. We don't actually live in Star Trek, we just play there.
I know this may come as a surprise, but there is actually no need for scarcity to be involved when dealing with virtual assets.
I'm fairly sure he's suggesting that a post scarcity society will do away with the need for expensive gamble boxes with rare prizes, because companies could then just make games, not have to worry about feeding the devs, paying the bills, etc.
Regarding the Xindi ships btw: I vaguely remember them putting those ships in boxes because the Xindi were told to have kept to their own more or less and only started sharing their tech because of the Undine threat (they were released at the same time as the episode with Tuvok organising the summit and them attacking ESD and Quo'nos).
Andorian, Tellarite and Vulcan tech was likely always available, build upon, incorporated in some way etc.
Caitian ships like the Atrox are also specifically mentioned to have been made available only in STO's time frame. So those actually should have gotten the same treatment as the Xindi ones, whichever treatment that should be.
This is the first time (that I can think of) that they have put a "normal" faction ship(meaning not supposed to be rare and not from a past or future time period or alternate timeline/universe) in a lock box. Something has apparently changed in regards to this specific ship that has never happened before.
Technically, Crossfield class ships were a ship class that existed before the invention of the spore drive, and only two of them got fitted for spore drives, so the Crossfield was an otherwise generic ship type, and its only in a lockbox/Legendary ship bundle.
Likewise, the Xindi have been part of the Federation for over 100 years by the time of STO, so Xindi ships are Federation species ships, and aren't in the C-Store with other Fed species ships like the Vulcan, Andorian, Tellerite, or Caitain ships.
You apparently missed part of what I said. Here it is again:
"meaning not supposed to be rare and not from a past or future time period or alternate timeline/universe"
Both examples you cited fall into "past" time periods, not STO's "current" time period.
Yes, they have added some "past" time period ships in the C-store. No one said otherwise.
But the have never (before this new ship) added a "current"(to STO's time period) main faction ship to a lock box. There are no examples you can cite that disprove this, period.
The rule for how things are sold or given away in this game is simple: What will make the most money for Cryptic?
I know this comes as a surprise to some of you, but Cryptic Studios is a business. They have to pay for the facility they occupy; they have to pay for their internet connectivity; they have to pay for the server farm, such as it is; they have to pay salaries to all of their employees, whether programmers, artists, or the guy who sweeps up after everyone leaves; and I can only have nightmares about their electric bills.
If you want things to happen in STO, they have to make money. Sometimes they will make money in a fashion of which you personally disapprove. If enough people disapprove of it, profit will not be made, and the method will change. If it continues, that means they're making money on it, not that they dislike you personally.
If all of this disappoints you, by all means, work however you can to move our society past a scarcity economy. I will do everything in my rather limited power to support your efforts! Until then, though, the situation is as it is. We don't actually live in Star Trek, we just play there.
I know this may come as a surprise, but there is actually no need for scarcity to be involved when dealing with virtual assets.
I'm fairly sure he's suggesting that a post scarcity society will do away with the need for expensive gamble boxes with rare prizes, because companies could then just make games, not have to worry about feeding the devs, paying the bills, etc.
Sure.
What I'm saying is: there's no need to create artificial scarcity when you can just copy-paste (hah!) the ship and make it available to a much broader part of the playerbase.
Economically, it makes sense to charge high prices when you can only sell so many units because making more is not physically possible of whatever and you have to at least break-even by selling those units.
That's not the case here. They themselves are creating scarcity so then it's just an excuse to charge high prices - and hence, that doesn't automatically make sense in the somewhat belittling way jonsills suggested.
Because they may well pay the bills by trying to sell these ships to a much larger part of the playerbase at lower prices.
Using the term 'scarcity' is the worst possible explanation I can think of in this case. Because you can actually use that same term more literally to show why they're choosing a much worse strategy than they could have.
Also, an Andorian shuttle is currently not available and the Vulcan ship that was part of an event (forgot which one tbh) was never put in the regular C-store at regular prices either.
Sure, but that really just proves my point further doesn't it? Same thing with Risian ships. the Risians have been members of the Federation for decades, yet all of the Risian ships are event only ships, and not in the C-store.
Hey, I've only been in Starfleet for like nine years, not decades!
In all seriousness: I didn't actually follow the entire conversation. If you're saying that there is no golden rule regarding what is put in which store and how things are made available: that's true.
Somtaaw, the T5U ships in lockbox were never "lockbox" ships. Nobody has ever considered them the same thing as say the Wells Class.
They're very obviously "boobie prizes" replacements for the old T5 Mirror Ships they used to put in there.
So as I said before the Hirogen is indeed the final T5 Lockbox ship that hasn't gotten a T6 upgrade yet. Of course the Hirogen Lobi ship would get an upgrade with it, but I don't know if they'll make a T6 obelisk any time soon.
Now would they make T6 versions of the Kazon and other boobie price ships? Probably not, ALL of them were created after T6 ships were made, they were ALL only meant to be upgraded to T5U, that was their entire point.
If you're saying that there is no golden rule regarding what is put in which store and how things are made available: that's true.
Prior to this new ship there was one "fact" that was true since the introduction of lockboxes until now:
No "normal"(see explanation below) faction ship was put in a lockbox.
By "normal" I mean all of the following:
A: modern/current to STO's time period (not from the past or future)
B: not supposed to be "rare" in the game's story (not 'one of a kind' or even 'very rare' tech)
C: not from an alternate timeline/universe (such as kelvin/mirror/etc)
D. part of the standard fleet of one of the playable factions (not one of their member species/allies/etc)
Prior to the Inquiry, no ship that met ALL of those standards has ever been put in a lockbox (and yes I know it's a technically promo pack, I just use "lockbox" as a catchall term for people who understand what we're talking about).
As stated in my previous post, something has definitely "changed" with this ship.
Also, following up on the previous post: people who were around in 2012 when lockboxes first started will recall the devs did in fact say that regular faction ship would be sold in the game store and only rare/exotic ships would be put in lockboxes.
To be clear, I'm not saying they lied. Plans change, and I get it. But no one should pretend or claim there was not a rule/standard/(whatever term you want to use) stated by the devs themselves that was in place for about 8 years.
You're trying to use excuses that don't even hold water anymore...the so called "rare" ships excuse doesn't work when they've been made common, CBS probably doesn't even cares as long as STO makes bank for them.
I'm willing to bet Cryptic knew full well that when they released the Discovery Connie they were going to release the Legendary pack...it was the 10th anniversary...you can bet they have been planning things for a while. So they released the Discovery Connie and D7...making them absolutely insane...making them the first flight deck carriers with one of the best pets in the game and give them access to one of the best beams in the game to milk the whales for all they were were before the Legendary Pack.
You're grasping at any straw for a excuse as to why this isn't anything more than Cryptic greed...ever since Andre took over the game has been getting progressively more greedy and every straw in the world you could grasp can't disprove that.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
If you're saying that there is no golden rule regarding what is put in which store and how things are made available: that's true.
Prior to this new ship there was one "fact" that was true since the introduction of lockboxes until now:
No "normal"(see explanation below) faction ship was put in a lockbox.
By "normal" I mean all of the following:
A: modern/current to STO's time period (not from the past or future)
B: not supposed to be "rare" in the game's story (not 'one of a kind' or even 'very rare' tech)
C: not from an alternate timeline/universe (such as kelvin/mirror/etc)
D. part of the standard fleet of one of the playable factions (not one of their member species/allies/etc)
Prior to the Inquiry, no ship that met ALL of those standards has ever been put in a lockbox (and yes I know it's a technically promo pack, I just use "lockbox" as a catchall term for people who understand what we're talking about).
As stated in my previous post, something has definitely "changed" with this ship.
Well, not all ships that don't meet all of those criteria were put in a box.
Ships like the Vengeance or the DSC era ships were not put in a box. Then the Crossfield (aka USS Discovery) was.
So even within those rules there wasn't that much consistency as ships that should've ended up in boxes (since they didn't meet all of the outlined criteria) didn't always end up there. And of course, the ships that were put in boxes, ended up in different kinds.
I'm not saying that putting regular ships in promo packs is justified or defendable. But Cryptic has for a long time done whatever it wants, there are no clear rules.
Well, not all ships that don't meet all of those criteria were put in a box.
That's not what I'm talking about, at all. I'm not talking about ships that were NOT put in boxes. I'm talking about ship that were. And no ship that meets all of those points has (key word) ever been put in a box prior to the Inquiry.
Sorry folks but the Amarie, a Promo Ship, has been in Mudd's Market as part of Mudd's Stealing Time Bundle.
Edited for flagrant unforgivable error.
Post edited by ltminns on
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
And, imo, whether or not they follow some precedent or rule, isn't even the most important thing.
The past is the past and we shouldn't get stuck there.
The relevant question to ask, if you ask me, is whether it is, here, now, in the future, acceptable / a good idea to keep putting ships in boxes that most players will never bother with or be able to afford.
Just to emphasise again: these things cost over $200. That's the price you're expected to pay for single item, in a computer game. Even things in this same game that are account-bound are cheaper, or just as expensive (in the case of the Lifer subscription).
And, imo, whether or not they follow some precedent or rule, isn't even the most important thing.
The past is the past and we shouldn't get stuck there.
The relevant question to ask, if you ask me, is whether it is, here, now, in the future, acceptable / a good idea to keep putting ships in boxes that most players will never bother with or be able to afford.
Just to emphasise again: these things cost over $200. That's the price you're expected to pay for single item, in a computer game. Even things in this same game that are account-bound are cheaper, or just as expensive (in the case of the Lifer subscription).
I generally agree that what's done is done and there isn't much point debating the past except to correct anyone who is saying something that isn't true.
But to your second point I think they will eventually go too far. I'm not sure when it will happen or what the specific case will be, but eventually they are going to cause enough ill-will that the ship in question isn't going to sell well and they will have to re-think their marketing strategy.
That said, hopefully if the right laws are passed in the right places they will be forced to make a change before having to deal with the above hypothetical scenario.
Well, not all ships that don't meet all of those criteria were put in a box.
That's not what I'm talking about, at all. I'm not talking about ships that were NOT put in boxes. I'm talking about ship that were. And no ship that meets all of those points has (key word) ever been put in a box prior to the Inquiry.
I know.
But a rule doesn't say much if it doesn't cover all cases (ie., if it's not applied exhaustively).
If saying 'items which meet criteria A through D don't end up in boxes' (like a Galaxy), then what's the point of that rule if items that do not meet all those criteria, are also not put in those same boxes (like a Somerville)?
Kind of a pointless rule it is then. And it certainly isn't as all-encompassing as some people would like it to be.
____
Anyway, I'm not going to focus on the past anymore as explained in my previous post. They've made this decision and no 'rule' is going to change that.
All we can do is either support it, or counteract this decision by not spending anymore.
And, imo, whether or not they follow some precedent or rule, isn't even the most important thing.
The past is the past and we shouldn't get stuck there.
The relevant question to ask, if you ask me, is whether it is, here, now, in the future, acceptable / a good idea to keep putting ships in boxes that most players will never bother with or be able to afford.
Just to emphasise again: these things cost over $200. That's the price you're expected to pay for single item, in a computer game. Even things in this same game that are account-bound are cheaper, or just as expensive (in the case of the Lifer subscription).
I generally agree that what's done is done and there isn't much point debating the past except to correct anyone who is saying something that isn't true.
But to your second point I think they will eventually go too far. I'm not sure when it will happen or what the specific case will be, but eventually they are going to cause enough ill-will that the ship in question isn't going to sell well and they will have to re-think their marketing strategy.
That said, hopefully if the right laws are passed in the right places they will be forced to make a change before having to deal with the above hypothetical scenario.
I'm hoping for the same. A line must be drawn somewhere and if people are really as offended as they seem (on Reddit, Twitter and so on as well) then this may just be it. Or not. We'll see.
Well, not all ships that don't meet all of those criteria were put in a box.
That's not what I'm talking about, at all. I'm not talking about ships that were NOT put in boxes. I'm talking about ship that were. And no ship that meets all of those points has (key word) ever been put in a box prior to the Inquiry.
I know.
But a rule doesn't say much if it doesn't cover all cases (ie., if it's not applied exhaustively).
To be clear, the "rule" I'm referring to is about the ships IN the boxes, not what ships they decide to put in the store for various reasons. And the "rule" that I'm referring to, in the context I'm talking about, has never been broken until the Inquiry.
I'm not trying to debate semantics, but just to be clear on what I'm actually saying. There is NO exception to the "rule" I'm talking about in regards to the ships they actually put IN boxes, until the Inquiry.
To use an admittedly imperfect illustration: some restaurants have a dress code. If you do not meet that dress code, you cannot enter/dine. However that code does not prevent people who are dressed up from leaving when they are finished. So a rule can certainly be "one way".
The "rule" (no normal faction ships in lockboxes) is "one way". It prevented (ships meeting the criteria I listed) from going in boxes. It did not prevent weird/alien/whatever ships from being sold outside of boxes, if they choose to do so. I hope that is clear, and there is no need to debate the point when there is literally no exception to even use an example (prior to Inquiry).
Sorry folks but the Amarie, a Promo Ship, has been in Mudd's Market as part of the Picard Bundle.
Nope the Amarie is not part of the Picard bundle that is the Miradorn Raider. Though the Armarie is purchasable through the C-Store and yes it is a promo box ship or was however you wanna look at it.
C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
Sorry, Mixed it up, it was part of Mudd's Stealing Time Bundle.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
And, imo, whether or not they follow some precedent or rule, isn't even the most important thing.
The past is the past and we shouldn't get stuck there.
The relevant question to ask, if you ask me, is whether it is, here, now, in the future, acceptable / a good idea to keep putting ships in boxes that most players will never bother with or be able to afford.
Just to emphasise again: these things cost over $200. That's the price you're expected to pay for single item, in a computer game. Even things in this same game that are account-bound are cheaper, or just as expensive (in the case of the Lifer subscription).
I generally agree that what's done is done and there isn't much point debating the past except to correct anyone who is saying something that isn't true.
But to your second point I think they will eventually go too far. I'm not sure when it will happen or what the specific case will be, but eventually they are going to cause enough ill-will that the ship in question isn't going to sell well and they will have to re-think their marketing strategy.
That said, hopefully if the right laws are passed in the right places they will be forced to make a change before having to deal with the above hypothetical scenario.
I'm hoping for the same. A line must be drawn somewhere and if people are really as offended as they seem (on Reddit, Twitter and so on as well) then this may just be it. Or not. We'll see.
That line is the point why a lot of people that still bother voice their disappointment. As been pointed out it was already drawn and this promo crossed it clear and loud. Nobody would believe Cryptic coming out now somehow defending this and making some loud mouth promises about some rules they will keep from now on.
Looking at their interaction (or rather lack of it) around it its pretty clear that they are embarrassed about it themselves. Sadly its most likely the wrong people being ashamed about their company (...kind of evident because otherwise we would not even have this promo but rather laughing our behinds off about what ugly ship had been released to the cstore).
The rule for how things are sold or given away in this game is simple: What will make the most money for Cryptic?
I know this comes as a surprise to some of you, but Cryptic Studios is a business. They have to pay for the facility they occupy; they have to pay for their internet connectivity; they have to pay for the server farm, such as it is; they have to pay salaries to all of their employees, whether programmers, artists, or the guy who sweeps up after everyone leaves; and I can only have nightmares about their electric bills.
If you want things to happen in STO, they have to make money. Sometimes they will make money in a fashion of which you personally disapprove. If enough people disapprove of it, profit will not be made, and the method will change. If it continues, that means they're making money on it, not that they dislike you personally.
If all of this disappoints you, by all means, work however you can to move our society past a scarcity economy. I will do everything in my rather limited power to support your efforts! Until then, though, the situation is as it is. We don't actually live in Star Trek, we just play there.
I know this may come as a surprise, but there is actually no need for scarcity to be involved when dealing with virtual assets.
I know this may come as a surprise, but Cryptic exists in our plane of reality, not in Star Trek, and corporate facilities are still run using a scarcity-based economy. Nobody's just giving Cryptic the resources they need to operate. And as long as this is true, they need to make money however they can, and to Gre'thor with any of these silly "rules" people think have been "broken".
Don't like it? Don't buy it - I'm not going to, I think the ship's only slightly less unsightly than a Breen cruiser. But the situation on the ground is that their financial analysts, with access to more and better data on the playerbase and the operational costs than we have, concluded that this was the way to go. But so far we're up to eight fracking pages of people whining about how they're "insulted" and this "breaks the rules". (Spoiler: I checked the ToS, and there's nothing in there about how they're allowed to sell their own assets. Only thing there on the topic is that we're not allowed to exchange their assets for real-world money, and we're only allowed to exchange our real-world money for their assets if they're involved.)
The rule for how things are sold or given away in this game is simple: What will make the most money for Cryptic?
I know this comes as a surprise to some of you, but Cryptic Studios is a business. They have to pay for the facility they occupy; they have to pay for their internet connectivity; they have to pay for the server farm, such as it is; they have to pay salaries to all of their employees, whether programmers, artists, or the guy who sweeps up after everyone leaves; and I can only have nightmares about their electric bills.
If you want things to happen in STO, they have to make money. Sometimes they will make money in a fashion of which you personally disapprove. If enough people disapprove of it, profit will not be made, and the method will change. If it continues, that means they're making money on it, not that they dislike you personally.
If all of this disappoints you, by all means, work however you can to move our society past a scarcity economy. I will do everything in my rather limited power to support your efforts! Until then, though, the situation is as it is. We don't actually live in Star Trek, we just play there.
I know this may come as a surprise, but there is actually no need for scarcity to be involved when dealing with virtual assets.
I know this may come as a surprise, but Cryptic exists in our plane of reality, not in Star Trek, and corporate facilities are still run using a scarcity-based economy. Nobody's just giving Cryptic the resources they need to operate. And as long as this is true, they need to make money however they can, and to Gre'thor with any of these silly "rules" people think have been "broken".
Don't like it? Don't buy it - I'm not going to, I think the ship's only slightly less unsightly than a Breen cruiser. But the situation on the ground is that their financial analysts, with access to more and better data on the playerbase and the operational costs than we have, concluded that this was the way to go. But so far we're up to eight fracking pages of people whining about how they're "insulted" and this "breaks the rules". (Spoiler: I checked the ToS, and there's nothing in there about how they're allowed to sell their own assets. Only thing there on the topic is that we're not allowed to exchange their assets for real-world money, and we're only allowed to exchange our real-world money for their assets if they're involved.)
If Cryptic was really intent on making money. Then they'd be better off moving away from account-wide unlocks. For example, leaving the event stuff as account unlocks, and making everything else character unlocks. Granted, this would mean reducing the prices of ships and such in the c-store. But then, 3000zen for a ship that 50 characters can use versus 50, 1000zen ships. The profit margin is actually greater on the per character purchase.
If they made this change, their profits would likely go up. They'd have to grandfather in that any account-wide purchases made before the change remained that way, and any purchases after the change would be character unlocks. The admiralty card can remain account-wide, it's a system designed for the hardcore dil farmers any how.
The bundle packs would remain account-unlocks as well. But, it would have to be in a manner of, you can only get these ships from this pack. You can't acquire the account-wide unlock of each ship outside of said pack. You can still purchase them singularly for a single character though.
Comments
I'm fairly sure he's suggesting that a post scarcity society will do away with the need for expensive gamble boxes with rare prizes, because companies could then just make games, not have to worry about feeding the devs, paying the bills, etc.
Andorian, Tellarite and Vulcan tech was likely always available, build upon, incorporated in some way etc.
Caitian ships like the Atrox are also specifically mentioned to have been made available only in STO's time frame. So those actually should have gotten the same treatment as the Xindi ones, whichever treatment that should be.
You apparently missed part of what I said. Here it is again:
"meaning not supposed to be rare and not from a past or future time period or alternate timeline/universe"
Both examples you cited fall into "past" time periods, not STO's "current" time period.
Yes, they have added some "past" time period ships in the C-store. No one said otherwise.
But the have never (before this new ship) added a "current"(to STO's time period) main faction ship to a lock box. There are no examples you can cite that disprove this, period.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Sure.
What I'm saying is: there's no need to create artificial scarcity when you can just copy-paste (hah!) the ship and make it available to a much broader part of the playerbase.
Economically, it makes sense to charge high prices when you can only sell so many units because making more is not physically possible of whatever and you have to at least break-even by selling those units.
That's not the case here. They themselves are creating scarcity so then it's just an excuse to charge high prices - and hence, that doesn't automatically make sense in the somewhat belittling way jonsills suggested.
Because they may well pay the bills by trying to sell these ships to a much larger part of the playerbase at lower prices.
Using the term 'scarcity' is the worst possible explanation I can think of in this case. Because you can actually use that same term more literally to show why they're choosing a much worse strategy than they could have.
Hey, I've only been in Starfleet for like nine years, not decades!
In all seriousness: I didn't actually follow the entire conversation. If you're saying that there is no golden rule regarding what is put in which store and how things are made available: that's true.
They're very obviously "boobie prizes" replacements for the old T5 Mirror Ships they used to put in there.
So as I said before the Hirogen is indeed the final T5 Lockbox ship that hasn't gotten a T6 upgrade yet. Of course the Hirogen Lobi ship would get an upgrade with it, but I don't know if they'll make a T6 obelisk any time soon.
Now would they make T6 versions of the Kazon and other boobie price ships? Probably not, ALL of them were created after T6 ships were made, they were ALL only meant to be upgraded to T5U, that was their entire point.
Prior to this new ship there was one "fact" that was true since the introduction of lockboxes until now:
No "normal"(see explanation below) faction ship was put in a lockbox.
By "normal" I mean all of the following:
A: modern/current to STO's time period (not from the past or future)
B: not supposed to be "rare" in the game's story (not 'one of a kind' or even 'very rare' tech)
C: not from an alternate timeline/universe (such as kelvin/mirror/etc)
D. part of the standard fleet of one of the playable factions (not one of their member species/allies/etc)
Prior to the Inquiry, no ship that met ALL of those standards has ever been put in a lockbox (and yes I know it's a technically promo pack, I just use "lockbox" as a catchall term for people who understand what we're talking about).
As stated in my previous post, something has definitely "changed" with this ship.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
To be clear, I'm not saying they lied. Plans change, and I get it. But no one should pretend or claim there was not a rule/standard/(whatever term you want to use) stated by the devs themselves that was in place for about 8 years.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
BS
You're trying to use excuses that don't even hold water anymore...the so called "rare" ships excuse doesn't work when they've been made common, CBS probably doesn't even cares as long as STO makes bank for them.
I'm willing to bet Cryptic knew full well that when they released the Discovery Connie they were going to release the Legendary pack...it was the 10th anniversary...you can bet they have been planning things for a while. So they released the Discovery Connie and D7...making them absolutely insane...making them the first flight deck carriers with one of the best pets in the game and give them access to one of the best beams in the game to milk the whales for all they were were before the Legendary Pack.
You're grasping at any straw for a excuse as to why this isn't anything more than Cryptic greed...ever since Andre took over the game has been getting progressively more greedy and every straw in the world you could grasp can't disprove that.
Well, not all ships that don't meet all of those criteria were put in a box.
Ships like the Vengeance or the DSC era ships were not put in a box. Then the Crossfield (aka USS Discovery) was.
So even within those rules there wasn't that much consistency as ships that should've ended up in boxes (since they didn't meet all of the outlined criteria) didn't always end up there. And of course, the ships that were put in boxes, ended up in different kinds.
I'm not saying that putting regular ships in promo packs is justified or defendable. But Cryptic has for a long time done whatever it wants, there are no clear rules.
That's not what I'm talking about, at all. I'm not talking about ships that were NOT put in boxes. I'm talking about ship that were. And no ship that meets all of those points has (key word) ever been put in a box prior to the Inquiry.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Edited for flagrant unforgivable error.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The past is the past and we shouldn't get stuck there.
The relevant question to ask, if you ask me, is whether it is, here, now, in the future, acceptable / a good idea to keep putting ships in boxes that most players will never bother with or be able to afford.
Just to emphasise again: these things cost over $200. That's the price you're expected to pay for single item, in a computer game. Even things in this same game that are account-bound are cheaper, or just as expensive (in the case of the Lifer subscription).
I generally agree that what's done is done and there isn't much point debating the past except to correct anyone who is saying something that isn't true.
But to your second point I think they will eventually go too far. I'm not sure when it will happen or what the specific case will be, but eventually they are going to cause enough ill-will that the ship in question isn't going to sell well and they will have to re-think their marketing strategy.
That said, hopefully if the right laws are passed in the right places they will be forced to make a change before having to deal with the above hypothetical scenario.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I know.
But a rule doesn't say much if it doesn't cover all cases (ie., if it's not applied exhaustively).
If saying 'items which meet criteria A through D don't end up in boxes' (like a Galaxy), then what's the point of that rule if items that do not meet all those criteria, are also not put in those same boxes (like a Somerville)?
Kind of a pointless rule it is then. And it certainly isn't as all-encompassing as some people would like it to be.
____
Anyway, I'm not going to focus on the past anymore as explained in my previous post. They've made this decision and no 'rule' is going to change that.
All we can do is either support it, or counteract this decision by not spending anymore.
I'm hoping for the same. A line must be drawn somewhere and if people are really as offended as they seem (on Reddit, Twitter and so on as well) then this may just be it. Or not. We'll see.
To be clear, the "rule" I'm referring to is about the ships IN the boxes, not what ships they decide to put in the store for various reasons. And the "rule" that I'm referring to, in the context I'm talking about, has never been broken until the Inquiry.
I'm not trying to debate semantics, but just to be clear on what I'm actually saying. There is NO exception to the "rule" I'm talking about in regards to the ships they actually put IN boxes, until the Inquiry.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
The "rule" (no normal faction ships in lockboxes) is "one way". It prevented (ships meeting the criteria I listed) from going in boxes. It did not prevent weird/alien/whatever ships from being sold outside of boxes, if they choose to do so. I hope that is clear, and there is no need to debate the point when there is literally no exception to even use an example (prior to Inquiry).
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Nope the Amarie is not part of the Picard bundle that is the Miradorn Raider. Though the Armarie is purchasable through the C-Store and yes it is a promo box ship or was however you wanna look at it.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I stole it from reddit
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
That line is the point why a lot of people that still bother voice their disappointment. As been pointed out it was already drawn and this promo crossed it clear and loud. Nobody would believe Cryptic coming out now somehow defending this and making some loud mouth promises about some rules they will keep from now on.
Looking at their interaction (or rather lack of it) around it its pretty clear that they are embarrassed about it themselves. Sadly its most likely the wrong people being ashamed about their company (...kind of evident because otherwise we would not even have this promo but rather laughing our behinds off about what ugly ship had been released to the cstore).
Don't like it? Don't buy it - I'm not going to, I think the ship's only slightly less unsightly than a Breen cruiser. But the situation on the ground is that their financial analysts, with access to more and better data on the playerbase and the operational costs than we have, concluded that this was the way to go. But so far we're up to eight fracking pages of people whining about how they're "insulted" and this "breaks the rules". (Spoiler: I checked the ToS, and there's nothing in there about how they're allowed to sell their own assets. Only thing there on the topic is that we're not allowed to exchange their assets for real-world money, and we're only allowed to exchange our real-world money for their assets if they're involved.)
If Cryptic was really intent on making money. Then they'd be better off moving away from account-wide unlocks. For example, leaving the event stuff as account unlocks, and making everything else character unlocks. Granted, this would mean reducing the prices of ships and such in the c-store. But then, 3000zen for a ship that 50 characters can use versus 50, 1000zen ships. The profit margin is actually greater on the per character purchase.
If they made this change, their profits would likely go up. They'd have to grandfather in that any account-wide purchases made before the change remained that way, and any purchases after the change would be character unlocks. The admiralty card can remain account-wide, it's a system designed for the hardcore dil farmers any how.
The bundle packs would remain account-unlocks as well. But, it would have to be in a manner of, you can only get these ships from this pack. You can't acquire the account-wide unlock of each ship outside of said pack. You can still purchase them singularly for a single character though.
I have never bought a gamble box ship in the 8 years I've played, and I never intend to.
You have, yet again, lost my custom on this occasion.