Not only is it NOT time to increase the refining cap. I can't imagine a situation in which it will ever be a good idea to do so. How this topic is not part of the FCT is beyond me.
Unless the devs throw in some kind of Dilithium sink there is no reason not to...because the market has been around 450 for a while now, so really no reason not to except they want hold players back.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Not only is it NOT time to increase the refining cap. I can't imagine a situation in which it will ever be a good idea to do so. How this topic is not part of the FCT is beyond me.
Unless the devs throw in some kind of Dilithium sink there is no reason not to...because the market has been around 450 for a while now, so really no reason not to except they want hold players back.
There's a very good reason not to. The market would permanently be at 500. Keep in mind that doesn't mean you could actually buy any zen at that price since whatever zen is up for trade will get bought up faster than you could trade for it. There isn't just infinite zen available you know? Someone has to actually put it up for offer. If you wanted to buy zen at 500 but none was for sale, due to oversupply of dilithium, your dil offer would just sit there and wait in line behind everyone else and their oversupply of dil. Eventually you'd get some of your zen but the offers to buy zen would continue to pile up and any zen that is put up for trade would immediately get bought out by someone ahead of you. This simply can't happen and Cryptic wouldn't let it happen. The best case scenario (seriously) would be for cryptic to increase the dil/zen limit from 500 to 1000. Rendering the OP's idea completely pointless.
By not raising the refinement cap, they aren't "holding you back." They're keeping the market functional as is. Increasing dilithium supply would effectively shut down your ability to buy zen (unless they increase the exchange rate limit) since you'd now have to wait (who knows how long) to actually buy it.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
if the devs don't add something to absorb the amount of dil (after an hypothetical increase in daily refining), it will be a mess.
I use all my dil for fleet projects or phoenix upgrades. I have never bought zen with dil, that needs too much grind.
they could extend the phoenix store: the uniforms which are in the dil store could be put in the phoenix store and bound to character; buyable with and UR or epic token. they could add more interesting stuff in the phoenix store: space sets, ground sets, each part of these sets would need a different token; for example rare for a shield, very rare for an engine, UR for a deflector. it is already like that for the sompek set.
that could be funny, i have opened tons of phoenix boxes, and I have had only 1 UR token, and 2 epics.
An other problem, is the colossal amount of unrefined dil that most of us have; it is realy a waste of ressources.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I'm not on board with changing the cap. Just because most people have 3 or less characters doesn't mean those of us with more should suffer. I built up my stable based on the existing system and how it works. I wouldn't have more than maybe 5 characters if the limit was so low as something like 20k accountwide (nevermind that I had more than 5 characters before the dilithium system even existed.) And if I wouldn't have that many characters, everything would be different. For one I never would have bought as many ships as I have, thus have far less use for zen.
I don't know what other people do and don't particularly care, however I don't find it remotely unreasonable to think that someone may want to build up 10 characters. Eng/sci/tac of each faction and a Jem, for example. Again, not that it is common, but it makes sense to want to do this, to explore the different ships of each faction with the different flavors of each profession.
If a new rep comes out and they want all the new stuff from that rep, assuming T6 discount, it takes 7500x3+16250x4+4500x3= 97000 just for the sets. If we have 20k refining/day then its 5 days per character, which with 10 chars would be 50 days, just to get the basic gear. How much does it cost to upgrade it all just to mk 15? I don't know, but lets say its 30 phoenix boxes each, so another 120k dil, which is another 6 days per character. You're looking at 110 days to get that account on par with accounts that have been swimming in extra dil, because they only have 1 character, for the past 99 days.
Do you need to fully outfit an account with all the new rep gear? No. You don't need to get any rep gear on any character when a new set comes out, of course, but the disparity is obvious. Someone has to spend 1/3 of a year refining to partially equip all their characters while someone else needs 1/3 of a month. All you end up doing is to flip the situation and punish people who want to explore the game wider, which is insanely unfair to people who have been doing that under the current system for the past 8 years or whatever it has been.
No one is preventing people from making a new character right now to up their refining cap, and using most of that on their original character, so why punish people who actually play multiple characters?
To add a different idea here that I just had, think about a scaling cap per character. More than a few times, someone sends me a random tell commenting on my accolade score on my oldest character. Well that is due to playing that character through everything in the game, or nearly so. That isn't something a little pylon does.
It seems to me if you want to not punish people with legitimate alts but discourage pylons to some degree, or at least force more investment in them, then you have a dil cap scale upwards as people get more accolade points. Maybe you'd start it lower at like 4k on a new character, then raise it from there.
I still don't really support changing the cap, but it is an idea no one has suggested yet that seems a lot more fair than cripplingly low account caps.
Not only is it NOT time to increase the refining cap. I can't imagine a situation in which it will ever be a good idea to do so. How this topic is not part of the FCT is beyond me.
Unless the devs throw in some kind of Dilithium sink there is no reason not to...because the market has been around 450 for a while now, so really no reason not to except they want hold players back.
There's a very good reason not to. The market would permanently be at 500. Keep in mind that doesn't mean you could actually buy any zen at that price since whatever zen is up for trade will get bought up faster than you could trade for it. There isn't just infinite zen available you know? Someone has to actually put it up for offer. If you wanted to buy zen at 500 but none was for sale, due to oversupply of dilithium, your dil offer would just sit there and wait in line behind everyone else and their oversupply of dil. Eventually you'd get some of your zen but the offers to buy zen would continue to pile up and any zen that is put up for trade would immediately get bought out by someone ahead of you. This simply can't happen and Cryptic wouldn't let it happen. The best case scenario (seriously) would be for cryptic to increase the dil/zen limit from 500 to 1000. Rendering the OP's idea completely pointless.
By not raising the refinement cap, they aren't "holding you back." They're keeping the market functional as is. Increasing dilithium supply would effectively shut down your ability to buy zen (unless they increase the exchange rate limit) since you'd now have to wait (who knows how long) to actually buy it.
Well you've made your side obvious...must really hate F2Pers...want them to raise the cap to 1000...you really hate them.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
raise the cap by 1,000 so i can at least get a single peice of rep gear in a day, i've already put in the work in for that dill ore but then it feels like cryptic is being that parent who goes " oh ill take that £20 you earned doing that job for the neighbor for safe keeping and here is £1 for some sweets"
raise the cap by 1,000 so i can at least get a single peice of rep gear in a day, i've already put in the work in for that dill ore but then it feels like cryptic is being that parent who goes " oh ill take that £20 you earned doing that job for the neighbor for safe keeping and here is £1 for some sweets"
It sounds like you are one of the players who would benefit from a 20K per day account-wide refinement cap then.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,675Community Moderator
Unless the devs throw in some kind of Dilithium sink there is no reason not to...because the market has been around 450 for a while now, so really no reason not to except they want hold players back.
raise the cap by 1,000 so i can at least get a single peice of rep gear in a day, i've already put in the work in for that dill ore but then it feels like cryptic is being that parent who goes " oh ill take that £20 you earned doing that job for the neighbor for safe keeping and here is £1 for some sweets"
An example of not thinking about the long term right here. Instant gratification, no thought put into how it would affect others... just "gimme gimme".
If I'm understanding you right, you want the base refine cap raised from 8000 to 9000. Eh... that won't get you a ground piece in one day. I think those are usually around 9500 DL (could be remembering the old MACO gear honestly on this one). And a piece of space gear is a lot more than that.
Getting Rep gear isn't supposed to be an instant affair. Its a project to work on, not a mission reward drop.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
I am fairly certain there 'was' a semi official answer from a dev on that topic back when neverwinter was released.
In a nutshell players wanted the same refinement cap as NWN got (twice STOs amount back then) because TWICE the amount.
It was pointed out that 'if' the daily refinement cap ever was to be increased 'all' the dilithium prices would have to be adjusted too because they are balanced with that cap in mind.
Then someone else pointed out that while NWN had twice STOs refinement cap that AD prices for whatever was considered appropriate gear in NWN back then roughly translated into at least thrice the values people were used from STO.
So be careful what you wish for.
Personally I would like another/more meaningful dilithium sinks.
For example (just spitballing here) pay 200.000 dilithium for a personal endeavor point. Which I imagine would be a huge dilithium sink. Or given that unlimited PE points with enough dilithium might not be a good idea after all limit the purchase of endeavor XP to when you finished all your PEs of the day and only be able to buy out the remaining xp for the next point. ~80k dilithium a day still would be a huge sink.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Not only is it NOT time to increase the refining cap. I can't imagine a situation in which it will ever be a good idea to do so. How this topic is not part of the FCT is beyond me.
Unless the devs throw in some kind of Dilithium sink there is no reason not to...because the market has been around 450 for a while now, so really no reason not to except they want hold players back.
There's a very good reason not to. The market would permanently be at 500. Keep in mind that doesn't mean you could actually buy any zen at that price since whatever zen is up for trade will get bought up faster than you could trade for it. There isn't just infinite zen available you know? Someone has to actually put it up for offer. If you wanted to buy zen at 500 but none was for sale, due to oversupply of dilithium, your dil offer would just sit there and wait in line behind everyone else and their oversupply of dil. Eventually you'd get some of your zen but the offers to buy zen would continue to pile up and any zen that is put up for trade would immediately get bought out by someone ahead of you. This simply can't happen and Cryptic wouldn't let it happen. The best case scenario (seriously) would be for cryptic to increase the dil/zen limit from 500 to 1000. Rendering the OP's idea completely pointless.
By not raising the refinement cap, they aren't "holding you back." They're keeping the market functional as is. Increasing dilithium supply would effectively shut down your ability to buy zen (unless they increase the exchange rate limit) since you'd now have to wait (who knows how long) to actually buy it.
Well you've made your side obvious...must really hate F2Pers...want them to raise the cap to 1000...you really hate them.
There's no "side" in this discussion. I'm a huge proponent of the F2P player base. A short sighted raising of the refinement cap does not help F2P players. It actually hurts them as I already explained above. If you don't understand that, then you don't understand the underlying issues about this topic.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Raising the cap is a great way to further increase Dil inflation and literally nothing else. It is and has always been a bad idea and this is a bad thread.
raise the cap by 1,000 so i can at least get a single peice of rep gear in a day, i've already put in the work in for that dill ore but then it feels like cryptic is being that parent who goes " oh ill take that £20 you earned doing that job for the neighbor for safe keeping and here is £1 for some sweets"
An example of not thinking about the long term right here. Instant gratification, no thought put into how it would affect others... just "gimme gimme".
If I'm understanding you right, you want the base refine cap raised from 8000 to 9000. Eh... that won't get you a ground piece in one day. I think those are usually around 9500 DL (could be remembering the old MACO gear honestly on this one). And a piece of space gear is a lot more than that.
Getting Rep gear isn't supposed to be an instant affair. Its a project to work on, not a mission reward drop.
ground gear has always been 9000 dill and its not "instant gratification" i already worked for the dill and marks to get it i have way more than enough Ore that at this point so much so that it will probably take years to refine it all and im collecting more passively as i play content for other stuff all the time to the point i wish i could just turn my excess ore into EC instead because its a completely useless currency otherwise.
raise the cap by 1,000 so i can at least get a single peice of rep gear in a day, i've already put in the work in for that dill ore but then it feels like cryptic is being that parent who goes " oh ill take that £20 you earned doing that job for the neighbor for safe keeping and here is £1 for some sweets"
An example of not thinking about the long term right here. Instant gratification, no thought put into how it would affect others... just "gimme gimme".
If I'm understanding you right, you want the base refine cap raised from 8000 to 9000. Eh... that won't get you a ground piece in one day. I think those are usually around 9500 DL (could be remembering the old MACO gear honestly on this one). And a piece of space gear is a lot more than that.
Getting Rep gear isn't supposed to be an instant affair. Its a project to work on, not a mission reward drop.
ground gear has always been 9000 dill and its not "instant gratification" i already worked for the dill and marks to get it i have way more than enough Ore that at this point so much so that it will probably take years to refine it all and im collecting more passively as i play content for other stuff all the time to the point i wish i could just turn my excess ore into EC instead because its a completely useless currency otherwise.
No...you really are looking at instant gratification. You are think about YOU only and what YOU want RIGHT NOW and not what the requested change will do for EVERYONE else...not just NOW...but months...years down the line. Not only are you looking for instant gratification...you are being extremely selfish about it too.
So true. The seemingly small effect of 1000 extra dilithium refinement would add an additional 12.5% refined dilithium to the system per day. As it stands, the dil/zen exchange is currently at 457. It would almost certainly hit 500 instantaneously and it would stay there forever. Good luck every buying zen with dil ever again.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
We now have an official answer from a dev on the Dilithium cap, so I'll be updating the FCT with this topic. Thank you. /Thread
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Comments
Unless the devs throw in some kind of Dilithium sink there is no reason not to...because the market has been around 450 for a while now, so really no reason not to except they want hold players back.
There's a very good reason not to. The market would permanently be at 500. Keep in mind that doesn't mean you could actually buy any zen at that price since whatever zen is up for trade will get bought up faster than you could trade for it. There isn't just infinite zen available you know? Someone has to actually put it up for offer. If you wanted to buy zen at 500 but none was for sale, due to oversupply of dilithium, your dil offer would just sit there and wait in line behind everyone else and their oversupply of dil. Eventually you'd get some of your zen but the offers to buy zen would continue to pile up and any zen that is put up for trade would immediately get bought out by someone ahead of you. This simply can't happen and Cryptic wouldn't let it happen. The best case scenario (seriously) would be for cryptic to increase the dil/zen limit from 500 to 1000. Rendering the OP's idea completely pointless.
By not raising the refinement cap, they aren't "holding you back." They're keeping the market functional as is. Increasing dilithium supply would effectively shut down your ability to buy zen (unless they increase the exchange rate limit) since you'd now have to wait (who knows how long) to actually buy it.
I use all my dil for fleet projects or phoenix upgrades. I have never bought zen with dil, that needs too much grind.
they could extend the phoenix store: the uniforms which are in the dil store could be put in the phoenix store and bound to character; buyable with and UR or epic token. they could add more interesting stuff in the phoenix store: space sets, ground sets, each part of these sets would need a different token; for example rare for a shield, very rare for an engine, UR for a deflector. it is already like that for the sompek set.
that could be funny, i have opened tons of phoenix boxes, and I have had only 1 UR token, and 2 epics.
An other problem, is the colossal amount of unrefined dil that most of us have; it is realy a waste of ressources.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I don't know what other people do and don't particularly care, however I don't find it remotely unreasonable to think that someone may want to build up 10 characters. Eng/sci/tac of each faction and a Jem, for example. Again, not that it is common, but it makes sense to want to do this, to explore the different ships of each faction with the different flavors of each profession.
If a new rep comes out and they want all the new stuff from that rep, assuming T6 discount, it takes 7500x3+16250x4+4500x3= 97000 just for the sets. If we have 20k refining/day then its 5 days per character, which with 10 chars would be 50 days, just to get the basic gear. How much does it cost to upgrade it all just to mk 15? I don't know, but lets say its 30 phoenix boxes each, so another 120k dil, which is another 6 days per character. You're looking at 110 days to get that account on par with accounts that have been swimming in extra dil, because they only have 1 character, for the past 99 days.
Do you need to fully outfit an account with all the new rep gear? No. You don't need to get any rep gear on any character when a new set comes out, of course, but the disparity is obvious. Someone has to spend 1/3 of a year refining to partially equip all their characters while someone else needs 1/3 of a month. All you end up doing is to flip the situation and punish people who want to explore the game wider, which is insanely unfair to people who have been doing that under the current system for the past 8 years or whatever it has been.
No one is preventing people from making a new character right now to up their refining cap, and using most of that on their original character, so why punish people who actually play multiple characters?
It seems to me if you want to not punish people with legitimate alts but discourage pylons to some degree, or at least force more investment in them, then you have a dil cap scale upwards as people get more accolade points. Maybe you'd start it lower at like 4k on a new character, then raise it from there.
I still don't really support changing the cap, but it is an idea no one has suggested yet that seems a lot more fair than cripplingly low account caps.
Well you've made your side obvious...must really hate F2Pers...want them to raise the cap to 1000...you really hate them.
It sounds like you are one of the players who would benefit from a 20K per day account-wide refinement cap then.
We do need a sink.
An example of not thinking about the long term right here. Instant gratification, no thought put into how it would affect others... just "gimme gimme".
If I'm understanding you right, you want the base refine cap raised from 8000 to 9000. Eh... that won't get you a ground piece in one day. I think those are usually around 9500 DL (could be remembering the old MACO gear honestly on this one). And a piece of space gear is a lot more than that.
Getting Rep gear isn't supposed to be an instant affair. Its a project to work on, not a mission reward drop.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
In a nutshell players wanted the same refinement cap as NWN got (twice STOs amount back then) because TWICE the amount.
It was pointed out that 'if' the daily refinement cap ever was to be increased 'all' the dilithium prices would have to be adjusted too because they are balanced with that cap in mind.
Then someone else pointed out that while NWN had twice STOs refinement cap that AD prices for whatever was considered appropriate gear in NWN back then roughly translated into at least thrice the values people were used from STO.
So be careful what you wish for.
Personally I would like another/more meaningful dilithium sinks.
For example (just spitballing here) pay 200.000 dilithium for a personal endeavor point. Which I imagine would be a huge dilithium sink. Or given that unlimited PE points with enough dilithium might not be a good idea after all limit the purchase of endeavor XP to when you finished all your PEs of the day and only be able to buy out the remaining xp for the next point. ~80k dilithium a day still would be a huge sink.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
ground gear has always been 9000 dill and its not "instant gratification" i already worked for the dill and marks to get it i have way more than enough Ore that at this point so much so that it will probably take years to refine it all and im collecting more passively as i play content for other stuff all the time to the point i wish i could just turn my excess ore into EC instead because its a completely useless currency otherwise.
So true. The seemingly small effect of 1000 extra dilithium refinement would add an additional 12.5% refined dilithium to the system per day. As it stands, the dil/zen exchange is currently at 457. It would almost certainly hit 500 instantaneously and it would stay there forever. Good luck every buying zen with dil ever again.
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