Some of the ships look very good, but packaged like that it is way out of reach whale bait.
If they sold them separately and at least at something close to the regular T6 price I would get the warship Voyager (it is the only Intrepid variant except for the Yeager kitbash that I have any interest in) and/or the Crossfield (though I wish they had the original McQuarrie ship available too, it is canon since it is seen a number of times in the background in TMP, TNG, and DS9 and is distinctly a different class than the Crossfield).
With the utmost respect to the developers, this is a terrible idea for a bundle. I've been playing for quite a few years off and on now and finally pulled the trigger a couple years ago to become a lifetime subscriber. I look at what has been announced and I'm incredibly disappointed in the fact that ships are not individually available through the c-store. I understand that the 10th Anni is a big deal, but there are major things that need to be remedied in the game first before this blatant cash grab is 'offered'. I've seen other companies have major PR disasters with releases and just try to push them under the rug. I'd like to think Arc/the developers have a bit more sense than that. Please, don't give us new skins that are ONLY available through a bundle that is more zen than we can buy in a 48 hour period. Focus more on stories/ships for the other races, I can't recall the last time the Romulans got a story update, granted I only play Federation but that's how I play the game. Why not take the revamped skins and apply those across the whole board of ships? It will take longer, but its a true gift to those of us who have been playing the game and a way to celebrate the 10th Anni by giving back to the players instead of trying to fleece them for exorbitant amounts of money. I will not be buying this pack Arc, even though the exclusive TMP era skin for the NX is beautiful. Seriously, give this pack a rework and make it so that ships can be individually purchased.
> @coldnapalm said: > (Quote) > > Yeah...STILL attempting to argue from authority that your opinion for what an MMO should do is right because you are a TAX EXPERT. If you don't want to be insulted...or make your profession look bad, you should not have posted what you posted.
The tax man has a point about money incentives.
The other side of the story is that we already have access to individual buy options for these ships. But if you buy the bundle, those same ships will also be available in different versions.
Some of the ships look very good, but packaged like that it is way out of reach whale bait.
Out of your reach, perhaps... but I suspect plenty of people on STO are not sour-grapes indigent. Given the content the package pricing is actually pretty good, a least when compared to past packages.
Really, the only issue I have with this is that it shows an inherent disconnect between Cryptic and PW, which also means that Cryptic doesn't really understand the purchasing model from the customer's side of things - PW places a limit on ZEN purchases that is lower than the price of these packages.. so even people who want to buy them will, by default, be unable to do when they're at full price. Discounted, people will be able to buy the standard bundle only.
That's decidedly poor planning. You don't ask people to buy something and then tell them that, for their own protection, you won't let them spend that much.
I wonder, are those infinity research and development pack that come with the larger bundle the promotion variety that have a chance at a ship?
Considering it says Infinity Research and Development Packs rather then just Research and Development Packs, I am pretty sure they are the ones with the lobi/ship pack chance.
I'm really disappointed to hear they're not going to be releasing these ships individually anytime soon. I have wanted the Refit Sovereign in this game for a few years now and was excited to hear it's finally in the game. The Legendary Miracle Worker Assault Cruiser is the only ship I want out of this pack and it turns out I can't get it? Terrible decision. It's always possible they will reconsider, but I hope they don't make us wait around for a year or more before deciding whether or not they want to release these ships separately. I really don't care how much of a "deal" they think the bundle is, I only want one single ship out of it and won't pay that much extra for content I don't want or need.
Stupid question: How do the 'premium' goodies warrant the 15,000 zen price difference?
10 master keys = 1,125z
10 promo r&d packs = 2,500z
10 enhanced universal upgrades = 100z *
10 phoenix packs = 100z **
100 lobi = 2,250z ***
10.000 dilithium = 25z ****
1 epic phoenix token = ???
that's 6,100 so the token would need an intrinsic value of at least 8,900z to break even.
However lets deal with my questionable 100z price tags first.
*One enhanced universal upgrade applies 30,000 tech points while having no equivalent buy option in the zen store. One Phoenix upgrade applies 51,200 tech points which is sufficient to act as a stand in. We need 10 phoenix packs then => 40,000 dilithium. Assuming a dilex rate of 400:1 we end up with 100z
**Pricing for ten phoenix packs was just done above.
*** 20 master keys should get you 100 lobi on average
**** dilex 400:1
Now to the big white whale the epic token.
First of all if you have been around and actually done all the mandatory ship grinds over the years that token has zero value for you.
If you missed a crucial ship it still is a raw deal because of the inconvenient character unlock thing.
Moving along. We have a 'budget' of 8,900z left.
Which would get you roughly 890 phoenix packs. Not quite enough for a reliable chance at an epic token. You would need at least twice if not thrice the amount and still could end up empty
Now you can argue that ~2,000 phoenix packs equal 20,000z. I will not dispute that.
I dispute that you can make the leap attaching a 20,000z price tag to the epic token.
2,000 phoenix boxes have a lot of other useful stuff inside besides a 'possible' epic token.
So what is the secret sauce making the premium bundle actually a better deal than 'just' the ships?
edit: removed ship slots price because already content of the base package
Well, this is what I said in another Thread about these 'Premium' goodies.
'What would have made more sense in the Premium Pack to justify 15,000 Zen uplift is:
10x Epic Universal Upgrades rather than the 'Enhanced". 30 Keys like the Legacy of Romulus Pack. 20 R&D Promotion Packs 100,000 Refined Dilitium 200 Lobi 20 Phoenix Packs 1 Epic Token'
And even with this it just barely reaches the 15k Zen uplift.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Imo the premium pack would be much more attractive if they scrapped the keys and simply included an Infinity T6 Prize Pack, maybe even scrap the R&D packs and package in a T6 Promo ship pack. Adding a bunch of loot boxes wouldn't get me to buy the Premium bundle even if I COULD afford it, but guaranteed T6 Lock Box and Promo ship choice packs would be VERY difficult to turn down if I had the extra cash.
i just whant 2 ships in the bundle and will probably not have individual ship perchause im not wasting my money on the bundle that will have 8 ships that i will never use
Thinking about it some more, I realise that as well as the Nova and the TOS Connie, there's one ship almost as venerable as the Constitution that there's a strong case for using, and that is the Excelsior, for several reasons:
It's the ship that Sulu himself would one day command.
The Enterprise-B was an Excelsior-class ship.
It was the backbone of Starfleet for nearly a century, making it one of the longest serving starship designs, and one of the most recognizable ships in the fleet.
Well we did see him command it in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country and in one of the Voyager episodes Tuvok had a memory of his time serving on Sulu's ship.
Well, this is what I said in another Thread about these 'Premium' goodies.
'What would have made more sense in the Premium Pack to justify 15,000 Zen uplift is:
10x Epic Universal Upgrades rather than the 'Enhanced".
30 Keys like the Legacy of Romulus Pack.
20 R&D Promotion Packs
100,000 Refined Dilitium
200 Lobi
20 Phoenix Packs
1 Epic Token'
And even with this it just barely reaches the 15k Zen uplift.
1 Epic Token
1 Tier 6 Promotional Ship Choice Pack
1 Infinity Tier 6 Ship Prize Pack
Legends of the Quadrants title
This is all that is necessary to make the Premium Pack worthwhile. After all, we are getting a bunch of variants of Promo ships and Lock Box ships in the main bundle.
Honestly - I'd have preferred a T6 Nova over any of this, but realistically the same applies to the Nova as to the two ship classes you mentioned. They're NOT 'legendary'.
Everything in this pack is a 'hero' ship - the lead ship, commanded by the lead Captain, of whatever series or movie they appeared in. Loathe as I am to say it, the Excelsior, Nebula and Nova don't qualify.
Wait are we arguing that Captain Pike is a hero on par with Kirk/Picard/Janeway, etc? And if so, did Captain Pike command a version of the Connie that was a full blown carrier? Because if either of those is a no, this counterargument falls apart.
Honestly - I'd have preferred a T6 Nova over any of this, but realistically the same applies to the Nova as to the two ship classes you mentioned. They're NOT 'legendary'.
Everything in this pack is a 'hero' ship - the lead ship, commanded by the lead Captain, of whatever series or movie they appeared in. Loathe as I am to say it, the Excelsior, Nebula and Nova don't qualify.
The TOS/disco connie could have been costumes for one ship. They are supposed to be the SAME ship.
The Excelsior probably has more screen time than some of the ships here. It is certainly the most successful Federation ship design. I would also have thought the B'rel fits quite well as at least a nod to Voyage Home, and all its other movie appearances, and a token offering to the KDF in the pack.
For anyone who did not notice it yet - the last 2 ships are added to blog - they are 2 Connie versions: Temporal Flight deck (Kelvin - I think, but I may be wrong, I'm not a pro-fan, just amateur fan ), and Miracle Worker Light Cruiser.
The ships looks good, the traits are nice, but darn it - I may not farm up enough Zen in time, if the bundle really will be limited time only in store
Captain Pike? No, probably not. The Enterprise? Absolutely. Regardless of who was commanding her, it's still the Enterprise.
The Enterprise was already in the package. Someone is going to have to explain the "why" of excluding some of the other more obvious choices just to include 3 visual variants of the same ship. Especially when the very much not legendary Enterprise-F/Odyssey is lurking in the background there.
As it stands right now we don't have "10 Legendary Ships", we only have 8.
Captain Pike? No, probably not. The Enterprise? Absolutely. Regardless of who was commanding her, it's still the Enterprise.
The Enterprise was already in the package. Someone is going to have to explain the "why" of excluding some of the other more obvious choices just to include 3 visual variants of the same ship. Especially when the very much not legendary Enterprise-F/Odyssey is lurking in the background there.
As it stands right now we don't have "10 Legendary Ships", we only have 8.
Oddysey got propably included, because it was for long time the "Enterprise" of the STO, it is included in many episode missions as The Flagship of UFOP of the current era of the game, and so on.
Honestly - I'd have preferred a T6 Nova over any of this, but realistically the same applies to the Nova as to the two ship classes you mentioned. They're NOT 'legendary'.
Everything in this pack is a 'hero' ship - the lead ship, commanded by the lead Captain, of whatever series or movie they appeared in. Loathe as I am to say it, the Excelsior, Nebula and Nova don't qualify.
The TOS/disco connie could have been costumes for one ship. They are supposed to be the SAME ship.
The Disco version is 50% larger, so having them be costumes for the same ship doesn't work.
This bundle is certainly enticing, mostly upgrades for pre-existing designs. I am generally not a fan of buying the same product more than once, but I will definitely consider this bundle, though the price does give me pause.
After looking at the specs for the last two I am actually somewhat disappointed, the Donnie appears to be a downgrade. Was looking forward to a Miracle Worker carrier too.
It would be really awesome (though not a great move financially for Cryptic), if this bundle also unlocked the original ships that the Legendary ships are based on. Then I could get that C-Store Miracle worker carrier. Wishful thinking, I know.
I was also scratching my head a bit that the Crossfield doesn't include the Switch mechanic from the mirror version, but includes everything else from it. Not a huge deal, just odd.
All things considered, I might just be persuaded to purchase this bundle. A Zen Charge sale would help me make a favorable decision. (Hint, Hint)
Seriously two Connies??? Man Im bummed at this. No Vesta or even a Nova?? Ok fine the Nova wasnt captained by a legendary hero dude but the Vesta was captained by Ezri Dax and it pretty much saved the the Galaxy from the Borg in the novels (which im sure are canon)
Well I still like some of the other ships in the bundle but this does TRIBBLE me off (sorry to all those that like the Connie but I just think having two in one pack is not great)
Two promo ship variants in the bundle... that's a pretty big slap in the face of the people who went through the trouble of getting one or both of those the old way, and a clear signal that even people who do pursue promo ships should reconsider the time and expense of acquiring iconic ships in that fashion.
If you want to add value to the package then come up with a way to let people trade back their TOS and Discovery constitution ships for alternative promo pack choices, and a way to trade back their Kelvin Constitutions and Crossfields for alternative lockbox ships?
Seriously, Cryptic has been using the disco connie to sell their promo chances for months now, only to laugh at anyone who fell for that by handing them out as guaranteed acquisitions in a bundle. Is this part of a new plan to alienate absolutely everybody?
So I'm looking at getting this pack, but my PC has been down with issues for a while and I'm not sure when it'll be up and running again. Is it possible to buy this without having to be in-game?
So, I think I figured out what 'for a limited time only' means in relation to these ships.
Te bundles will be available for a time and then they'll disappear from the Store, only to re-appear intermittently in Mudd's Market priced individually at the same (or higher) than the Vizier.
- - - - I n f e r i o r i t y - C o m p l e x - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Comments
If they sold them separately and at least at something close to the regular T6 price I would get the warship Voyager (it is the only Intrepid variant except for the Yeager kitbash that I have any interest in) and/or the Crossfield (though I wish they had the original McQuarrie ship available too, it is canon since it is seen a number of times in the background in TMP, TNG, and DS9 and is distinctly a different class than the Crossfield).
Again with the utmost respect
Capt. Treadagar.
> (Quote)
>
> Yeah...STILL attempting to argue from authority that your opinion for what an MMO should do is right because you are a TAX EXPERT. If you don't want to be insulted...or make your profession look bad, you should not have posted what you posted.
The tax man has a point about money incentives.
The other side of the story is that we already have access to individual buy options for these ships. But if you buy the bundle, those same ships will also be available in different versions.
Out of your reach, perhaps... but I suspect plenty of people on STO are not sour-grapes indigent. Given the content the package pricing is actually pretty good, a least when compared to past packages.
Really, the only issue I have with this is that it shows an inherent disconnect between Cryptic and PW, which also means that Cryptic doesn't really understand the purchasing model from the customer's side of things - PW places a limit on ZEN purchases that is lower than the price of these packages.. so even people who want to buy them will, by default, be unable to do when they're at full price. Discounted, people will be able to buy the standard bundle only.
That's decidedly poor planning. You don't ask people to buy something and then tell them that, for their own protection, you won't let them spend that much.
Considering it says Infinity Research and Development Packs rather then just Research and Development Packs, I am pretty sure they are the ones with the lobi/ship pack chance.
10 master keys = 1,125z
10 promo r&d packs = 2,500z
10 enhanced universal upgrades = 100z *
10 phoenix packs = 100z **
100 lobi = 2,250z ***
10.000 dilithium = 25z ****
1 epic phoenix token = ???
that's 6,100 so the token would need an intrinsic value of at least 8,900z to break even.
However lets deal with my questionable 100z price tags first.
*One enhanced universal upgrade applies 30,000 tech points while having no equivalent buy option in the zen store. One Phoenix upgrade applies 51,200 tech points which is sufficient to act as a stand in. We need 10 phoenix packs then => 40,000 dilithium. Assuming a dilex rate of 400:1 we end up with 100z
**Pricing for ten phoenix packs was just done above.
*** 20 master keys should get you 100 lobi on average
**** dilex 400:1
Now to the big white whale the epic token.
First of all if you have been around and actually done all the mandatory ship grinds over the years that token has zero value for you.
If you missed a crucial ship it still is a raw deal because of the inconvenient character unlock thing.
Moving along. We have a 'budget' of 8,900z left.
Which would get you roughly 890 phoenix packs. Not quite enough for a reliable chance at an epic token. You would need at least twice if not thrice the amount and still could end up empty
Now you can argue that ~2,000 phoenix packs equal 20,000z. I will not dispute that.
I dispute that you can make the leap attaching a 20,000z price tag to the epic token.
2,000 phoenix boxes have a lot of other useful stuff inside besides a 'possible' epic token.
So what is the secret sauce making the premium bundle actually a better deal than 'just' the ships?
edit: removed ship slots price because already content of the base package
'What would have made more sense in the Premium Pack to justify 15,000 Zen uplift is:
10x Epic Universal Upgrades rather than the 'Enhanced".
30 Keys like the Legacy of Romulus Pack.
20 R&D Promotion Packs
100,000 Refined Dilitium
200 Lobi
20 Phoenix Packs
1 Epic Token'
And even with this it just barely reaches the 15k Zen uplift.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
1 Epic Token
1 Tier 6 Promotional Ship Choice Pack
1 Infinity Tier 6 Ship Prize Pack
Legends of the Quadrants title
This is all that is necessary to make the Premium Pack worthwhile. After all, we are getting a bunch of variants of Promo ships and Lock Box ships in the main bundle.
Wait are we arguing that Captain Pike is a hero on par with Kirk/Picard/Janeway, etc? And if so, did Captain Pike command a version of the Connie that was a full blown carrier? Because if either of those is a no, this counterargument falls apart.
The TOS/disco connie could have been costumes for one ship. They are supposed to be the SAME ship.
The Excelsior probably has more screen time than some of the ships here. It is certainly the most successful Federation ship design. I would also have thought the B'rel fits quite well as at least a nod to Voyage Home, and all its other movie appearances, and a token offering to the KDF in the pack.
The ships looks good, the traits are nice, but darn it - I may not farm up enough Zen in time, if the bundle really will be limited time only in store
The Enterprise was already in the package. Someone is going to have to explain the "why" of excluding some of the other more obvious choices just to include 3 visual variants of the same ship. Especially when the very much not legendary Enterprise-F/Odyssey is lurking in the background there.
As it stands right now we don't have "10 Legendary Ships", we only have 8.
Oddysey got propably included, because it was for long time the "Enterprise" of the STO, it is included in many episode missions as The Flagship of UFOP of the current era of the game, and so on.
The Disco version is 50% larger, so having them be costumes for the same ship doesn't work.
After looking at the specs for the last two I am actually somewhat disappointed, the Donnie appears to be a downgrade. Was looking forward to a Miracle Worker carrier too.
It would be really awesome (though not a great move financially for Cryptic), if this bundle also unlocked the original ships that the Legendary ships are based on. Then I could get that C-Store Miracle worker carrier. Wishful thinking, I know.
I was also scratching my head a bit that the Crossfield doesn't include the Switch mechanic from the mirror version, but includes everything else from it. Not a huge deal, just odd.
All things considered, I might just be persuaded to purchase this bundle. A Zen Charge sale would help me make a favorable decision. (Hint, Hint)
Seriously two Connies??? Man Im bummed at this. No Vesta or even a Nova?? Ok fine the Nova wasnt captained by a legendary hero dude but the Vesta was captained by Ezri Dax and it pretty much saved the the Galaxy from the Borg in the novels (which im sure are canon)
Well I still like some of the other ships in the bundle but this does TRIBBLE me off (sorry to all those that like the Connie but I just think having two in one pack is not great)
If you want to add value to the package then come up with a way to let people trade back their TOS and Discovery constitution ships for alternative promo pack choices, and a way to trade back their Kelvin Constitutions and Crossfields for alternative lockbox ships?
Seriously, Cryptic has been using the disco connie to sell their promo chances for months now, only to laugh at anyone who fell for that by handing them out as guaranteed acquisitions in a bundle. Is this part of a new plan to alienate absolutely everybody?
Te bundles will be available for a time and then they'll disappear from the Store, only to re-appear intermittently in Mudd's Market priced individually at the same (or higher) than the Vizier.