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Official "Rise of Skywalker" Discussion Thread (SPOILERS!)
wingedhussar
Member Posts: 443 Community Moderator
in Ten Forward
Hey, guys, your friendly neighborhood Polish cavalryman here.
I'm putting this thread up in advance of Rise of the Skywalker to corral all discussion of Episode IX in one place, so folks who haven't seen the film yet can avoid spoilers. If you see somebody start another thread or trying to spoil the film, please tag @baddmoonrizin, @darkbladejk, or myself so the posts can be moved or blanked as needed.
I'm putting this thread up in advance of Rise of the Skywalker to corral all discussion of Episode IX in one place, so folks who haven't seen the film yet can avoid spoilers. If you see somebody start another thread or trying to spoil the film, please tag @baddmoonrizin, @darkbladejk, or myself so the posts can be moved or blanked as needed.
...THEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED!
Volunteer community moderator for the Star Trek Online forums. Not a Cryptic Studios or Perfect World employee.
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The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
At this point SW9 would have to be parsecs (not just light years) ahead of the other two in story quality, a phenomenon similar to the original Star Wars movie, to get me to pay anything extra to see it (and since it is unlikely Disney will release it on one of the few streaming services I have access to that means I probably will not see it period).
So...why did you bring up other people's opinions if you don't care about them?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Just to be clear, you are saying you don't care about other people's opinions on these movies?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Uh huh. Well, since you are calling Phoenix out as offending your sensibilities, exactly what part of his post are you so offended by? In his post I see him clearly saying how he (?) feels about the movies, but nowhere in his post did I see him saying anyone who disagreed with him is wrong. So which part is offending you so badly?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Hey bud, I'm sorry you are so upset about discussing these movies and I hope you enjoy this new one!
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
...THEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED!
I actually loved The Last Jedi. I'm not going to say it was flawless and the best Star Wars movie ever, but it beat the prequels to all hell and it did a lot of really interesting stuff. I was seriously put in mind of Knights of the Old Republic II, in that I think a lot of people didn't like it because it dared to actually question a lot of what previous Star Wars movies have done, rather than simply feeding on nostalgia the way The Force Awakens did. This article explains a lot of what I liked about it.
I'm apprehensive about Rise of Skywalker mainly because J.J.'s back in charge. The man's barely had an original thought since Lost. The advance reviews have me worried: the way a friend put it, "Rian Johnson got handed a movie full of empty mystery boxes" -- that's a term Abrams himself came up with to describe his writing style, he's even given Ted Talks about it -- and spent the whole film merrily setting fire to them and going off in a new direction.
And now Abrams is trying to backwheel whatever he can get away with to justify something resembling the redux of Return of the Jedi he had planned. Even brought friggin' Palpatine back from the dead because apparently it didn't suck enough when Dark Empire did that.
----
Anyway, that's my last post here for a while. Not going to be seeing it until after Christmas (it's become kind of a tradition with me and my aunts).
EDIT: typo
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
And that would have been better than Rey's origin. The HISHE version of Last Jedi where Rey is Kenobi's Granddaughter would have been better as well. Speaking of HISHE, it will be interesting to see what they do with this movie.
From what I heard about this movie, The Mandalorian is the sequel to the original trilogy. My main problem with these movies is what they did to Luke. Adding Mara Jade to the movies would have been far better than making Luke a broken man.
> @wingedhussar#7584
> @darkbladejk
> @badmoonrisen
>
> Post above this one contains MASSIVE spoilers
The title of the thread says spoilers. That means...spoilers.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Actually, they don't, they're just not allowed to take lovers or marry. Lucas said in an interview that Jedi are allowed to have casual sex, and even then it was relatively common for them to blow off the "no lovers" rule (the technical term is "pulling a Bindo").
It's all about the symbolism. Lucas draws heavily on romanticist high fantasy for the worldbuilding of Star Wars. Luke's archetype is the lost prince trying to overthrow the usurper because destiny says so.
Rey is not. She's a random peasant with no connection to anything from the ancien regime who's just trying to survive, somebody a show like Game of Thrones would cast as an extra. But her survival means restoring and hopefully improving on the ancien regime.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Right. And on that note...
Even though Jedi obviously broke that rule, let's not forget they certainly weren't the only Force users around
In theory, all Jedi could have a Sith or non-Jedi Force user somewhere in their family tree that "passed" the ability on to them.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Clone Wars is a kids sci-fi action show on American TV, which is as puritanical as ever. They're not going to discuss Jedi picking up random strangers in a bar for stress relief. And what the prequels actually say is that "attachment is forbidden, possession is forbidden". The prequel-era Jedi aren't allowed to have emotional attachments deeper than friendship, that's all it is. If Luke decided to amp it up to "no sex ever" in his new Jedi order, that's on him. Wouldn't be the only time in the interregnum he totally blew it.
Here's the source for Lucas's statement by the way. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1989505.stm
Yeah, from the advance reviews I fully expect that's the "big thing" that Abrams apparently backwheeled. And if that's indeed the case, I disagree with the creative decision: the story and her character are better if she's an entirely new character unconnected to what came before. For Pete's sake, that was one of the big points of The Last Jedi: it was a film dedicated to metatextual commentary on Star Wars itself, the fact that the franchise was ultimately written for children, and children naturally grow up and eventually hand things off to a new generation.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
And on that note, that's actually what I was looking forward to about these movies finally being over. Now the books can actually tell the story of what happened between VI and VII without having to worry about spoiling the upcoming movies. And honestly, I care more about seeing Luke and Leia and Han help build the New Republic and Luke's new Jedi Temple than I do about the entire story of this sequel trilogy.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
The "saga" movies are over. That's what I meant by "these" movies. We all know they will keep making "Star Wars" franchise movies forever.
Yes, but it's clearly not focused on the story of what Luke and Leia and Han are doing. That's the stuff I'm interested in seeing now that these "saga" movies are finished.
You put the word "spoiler" inside brackets at the start and then "/spoiler" inside brackets at the end.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
A mixed bag as with the entire sequel trilogy - it's a neat nostalgia trip, very classic, good actor chemistry for the most part and fun. But as a whole underwhelming and wasting a lot of potential.
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Actually, the Clone Wars, like most US cartoons, glossed over the details of the relationship between Obi-Wan and Satine Kryze besides the fact that they were star-crossed lovers of some sort. They could have been doing anything no matter how kinky or how often, and they would simply say they had a "close relationship". Some of the dialog did suggest in a roundabout fashion that it was the fact that Obi-Wan's position meant he was forbidden attachments and Satine's meant she was forbidden casual sex (as a matter of state) so they broke it off before they were caught. Almost a Ladyhawke situation but with conflicting job requirements instead of a shapeshifting curse.
In fact, Obi-Wan's reaction on finding what Anakin and Padme were doing was probably colored by regret over his necessary breakup with Satine. Then there was the flirting Obi-Wan did with Asajj Ventress, for a while there it looked like the two might jump into the sack despite being on opposite sides, though in a cartoon shown in the US that would never happen on camera. Also, they made it fairly clear that Anakin and Padme were violating the "attachment is forbidden, possession is forbidden" clause, not some unmentioned chastity clause.
The fact that Lucas told Hamill he was playing a chaste monk is no more significant than what he told the BBC about Jedi can have sex along as it is without attachment or possession. After all, he also told Hamill he was planning to do the last trilogy and asked that he come back for it when the time came.
Lucas never claimed to have already written the final version of all nine films, what he said was that he had the story arc for all nine, which sounds similar but really isn't. When planning an arc like that it is really just the framework and probably a few scenes but all the details do not fall into place until the actual writing happens. And those details can be significant and change the interpretation of the rest of the story, even parts that have been written and produced. In fact, that is the real meaning of "retcon", not a complete dump and start over like some think it is.
In fact, what really made the original trilogy the phenomenon it was came directly from Lucas's infamous waffling.
Lucas could not decide if he wanted the main character to be male or female. Recognizing that each took a different approach he wrote two parallel sets of scripts for Star Wars, one with teen male angst and direct action, and one that depended on a feminine networking approach to see which came out better. He still could not decide and showed them to a few friends who convinced him that a film with a male lead would be much easier to sell, so he went with that.
But still, he did not want to give up the other script entirely so he merged them and the hero became primarily Luke, but with Leia also in the hero limelight just a little away from the center, which made for a subtle depth (and was very unusual for the times). That is also why the trilogy broke the usual formula and the male and female leads did not become love interests, the two followed their original scripts as much as possible after the scripts were combined and Leia continued with the trope of the princess and the dashing pirate/rogue from her original script.
People picked up on how much alike the two were in a lot of ways and so in TESB they were foreshadowed ("there is the other...") as twins to take advantage of the idea of twin similarity which was then revealed completely in RotJ. The Anakin as Vader thing came about from alternate endings written to confuse leakers, and Lucas became fascinated with the one where Vader is the "dead" father. The framework was loose enough to take the notion without breaking anything, and going in that direction was unusual for the genre, which added to the other stuff made the trilogy really stand out and viewers went gaga over it.
By the time the first trilogy was done Lucas was so burned out he did not even want to think about doing another SW film so he threw the final trilogy open to novels and what eventually became the Expanded Universe but blocked out the time shortly before the original trilogy as not available. Apparently he was still too crispy when they came to him to do the prequels and if you listen to the way he talks about those prequels he basically made a list of what had to happen and just checked it off by the numbers without putting too much into it. Writing a prequel is like building a brick wall from the top down, it is possible but a lot harder than doing it the usual way, and Lucas was not really up to it at the time so it came out flat and formulaic.
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