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"We are looking into the data for making lock box and phoenix stuff account wide, but..."

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  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,415 Arc User
    The systems are already in game to make it possible so the thing being looked into is the money to be made (or not) from doing something that is pro-playerbase. Sadly simply saying something is being looked at means that nothing changing is a very high probability.

    The R&D boxes certainly would benefit from account wide status as the boxes themselves are pretty much worthless due to the flooding of R&D mats that is still going on and how lacking in options the R&D system itself is. Phoenix ships were account wide before they were phoenixxed (with a few exceptions for console players who've been screwed a couple of times) and the drop rate on the tokens needed is abysmal so account wide would be a really good move.

    Big questions are would the current whales buy the same volume of keys as before and would account wide encourage fresh blood to waste their money on the gambleboxes or more demand from folk buying via the exchange. More ships going into "active" rosters would also mean more potential sales on slots so there's that to factor in as well.
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 737 Arc User
    I think its a good idea and have wanted it for a while. Its definitely a reason I don't put a lot of resources into these boxes.

    So, Phoenix stuff that was originally account bound being account bound is an obvious yes. I'd be plenty happy in the case of lockbox/lobi ships if we could repack and trade it to a different character, but account wide availability would be really nice too. Making the traits for the ships account wide should be a given though, even if they didn't ultimately make the ships account wide.

    Now I'm sure some people would be pissed, getting the short end if suddenly their 1.5b ship was account wide and they had already bought 5 of them or something. But, would they be so pissed if they got 4 boxes in compensation to use on different box ships? I doubt it.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,339 Arc User
    I know it won't be a popular opinion, but I disagree with making Lockbox and Phoenix Box ships/items account unlocks. I'd make Lobi Store ships/items account unlocks, though. And I'd implement a trade up option for Phoenix Vouchers.

    I think this depends on what data they are looking at and what they find. I tend to agree with you, however should they find they can generate more key sales by making things account bound, I definitely think it would be done.

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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 9,898 Arc User
    (...)
    Now I'm sure some people would be pissed, getting the short end if suddenly their 1.5b ship was account wide and they had already bought 5 of them or something. But, would they be so pissed if they got 4 boxes in compensation to use on different box ships? I doubt it.

    I don't think that should factor in whatsoever. People being jealous that other people get something or got it for better conditions than they did should never be the measuring stick. Otherwise, everything in this game had to be unique just so everyone could feel special pig-2.gif​​
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  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,317 Arc User
    edited October 31
    I know it won't be a popular opinion, but I disagree with making Lockbox and Phoenix Box ships/items account unlocks. I'd make Lobi Store ships/items account unlocks, though. And I'd implement a trade up option for Phoenix Vouchers.
    Agreed that lock box ships and phoenix pack ships shouldn't be account wide unlocks. However, I do support making phoenix pack ships unbound so you can sell them to other players. It would give people that have all the event ships yet another reason to open phoenix packs. And much more importantly it would give players that don't win Epic/UR tokens another avenue to acquire those ships.

    I wouldn't support just making lobi ships a straight account unlock though. I like the idea of having a hybrid system in place when you acquire a lobi ship. If you have 900 lobi, you can select either a bound version of the ship that you cannot trade or sell. Opening it allows you to have an account wide unlock on that ship.

    Choosing the second option instead makes that lobi ship unbound and thus you can sell or trade it. But that unbound ship is only a character bound version upon opening instead of an account wide unlock. This gives the players an incentive to acquire their lobi ships with lobi (and makes more money for cryptic) and still allows people to buy lobi ships with EC.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 737 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    (...)
    Now I'm sure some people would be pissed, getting the short end if suddenly their 1.5b ship was account wide and they had already bought 5 of them or something. But, would they be so pissed if they got 4 boxes in compensation to use on different box ships? I doubt it.

    I don't think that should factor in whatsoever. People being jealous that other people get something or got it for better conditions than they did should never be the measuring stick. Otherwise, everything in this game had to be unique just so everyone could feel special pig-2.gif​​

    Yeah but these are the space rich who are whales in one way or another. These aren't the people you want to make seriously mad at you. No one has ever bought a box ship thinking that they would ever be account wide, and they aren't minor expenses to most people. So why not give them a little compensation for their time, loyalty, and investment if you're changing the rules suddenly? It makes good business sense.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,317 Arc User
    edited October 31
    Yeah but these are the space rich who are whales in one way or another. These aren't the people you want to make seriously mad at you. No one has ever bought a box ship thinking that they would ever be account wide, and they aren't minor expenses to most people. So why not give them a little compensation for their time, loyalty, and investment if you're changing the rules suddenly? It makes good business sense.

    I don't support the idea of making lock box/promo ships account unlocks but you're missing a big point here. If they DID make lock box/promo ships account wide unlocks, the "space rich whales" would have their compensation in the form of every lock box/promo ship they own now being account wide unlocks.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 737 Arc User
    Yeah but these are the space rich who are whales in one way or another. These aren't the people you want to make seriously mad at you. No one has ever bought a box ship thinking that they would ever be account wide, and they aren't minor expenses to most people. So why not give them a little compensation for their time, loyalty, and investment if you're changing the rules suddenly? It makes good business sense.

    I don't support the idea of making lock box/promo ships account unlocks but you're missing a big point here. If they DID make lock box/promo ships account wide unlocks, the "space rich whales" would have their compensation in the form of every lock box/promo ship they own now being account wide unlocks.

    I think you missed my original post. The compensation would be given if they had bought multiple copies of one ship for different characters on their account. Account wide doesn't compensate much if they already bought multiple copies of ships because they were not account wide in the first place.
  • keladorkelador Member Posts: 318 Arc User
    edited October 31
    On the flip side this move would hurt RWT sales which is a good thing as it would encourage people to buy ships in a more legit way and it would also change the exchange econmeny as ship prices would rise due to the account wide unlock adding value so prices will go up.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,339 Arc User
    Yeah but these are the space rich who are whales in one way or another. These aren't the people you want to make seriously mad at you. No one has ever bought a box ship thinking that they would ever be account wide, and they aren't minor expenses to most people. So why not give them a little compensation for their time, loyalty, and investment if you're changing the rules suddenly? It makes good business sense.

    Then they should read the "Gameplay subject to change" part of the EULA again. I don't speak for anyone other than myself, but I have purchased several copies of various lockbox ships for different alts. If they are made account wide unlocks and that leads to more sales that leads to more development for the game, I am all for it.
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  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,317 Arc User
    edited October 31
    Yeah but these are the space rich who are whales in one way or another. These aren't the people you want to make seriously mad at you. No one has ever bought a box ship thinking that they would ever be account wide, and they aren't minor expenses to most people. So why not give them a little compensation for their time, loyalty, and investment if you're changing the rules suddenly? It makes good business sense.

    I don't support the idea of making lock box/promo ships account unlocks but you're missing a big point here. If they DID make lock box/promo ships account wide unlocks, the "space rich whales" would have their compensation in the form of every lock box/promo ship they own now being account wide unlocks.

    I think you missed my original post. The compensation would be given if they had bought multiple copies of one ship for different characters on their account. Account wide doesn't compensate much if they already bought multiple copies of ships because they were not account wide in the first place.

    Account wide compensates you massively. It gives you free ships for any additional characters you create or have already created regardless if you bought the ship once or five times. These same players probably have a bunch of single purchases/wins of prize ships that also would become account wide unlocks. These benefits alone would be their compensation.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 10,049 Arc User
    I have a few Characters with duplicate Lobi/Lockbox Ships. Bought a few of the extras when the price crashed on them (Wells, Vonph) and others. A couple of Tufflis, Assimilated, Aeons. But, I would fully support making them Account Bound without any schemes costing the same as the original.

    Really, it's no skin off my nose if I had bought and opened more than one of a ship. I had them then and used them then. Is it fine. What is worse is pre-ordering an Expansion and then having the price of it being cheaper due to a sale when it actually was released.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 49,067 Arc User
    I've only got one copy of a lockbox ship. Ended up getting a second Crossfield. But I know I would love to have access to the other ships I have spread across my account on different characters. Got an NX Refit and Prototype Dread on two different characters. And my Discovery wouldn't mind having access to my main's Kelvin Connie and Walker.

    Having account unlock or some variation of it has been floated around the forums for years.
    The fact they're actually talking about it means they are looking into it. If they weren't... why would they say anything at all?
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,206 Arc User
    Yeah but these are the space rich who are whales in one way or another. These aren't the people you want to make seriously mad at you. No one has ever bought a box ship thinking that they would ever be account wide, and they aren't minor expenses to most people. So why not give them a little compensation for their time, loyalty, and investment if you're changing the rules suddenly? It makes good business sense.

    I don't support the idea of making lock box/promo ships account unlocks but you're missing a big point here. If they DID make lock box/promo ships account wide unlocks, the "space rich whales" would have their compensation in the form of every lock box/promo ship they own now being account wide unlocks.

    I think you missed my original post. The compensation would be given if they had bought multiple copies of one ship for different characters on their account. Account wide doesn't compensate much if they already bought multiple copies of ships because they were not account wide in the first place.

    Account wide compensates you massively.
    Rep sponsorships being made free compensated massively, too.

    Didn't stop people demanding additional "compensation" for the tokens they'd hoarded.

    It was stupid and Cryptic should've just deleted the things, but yeah...
  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,109 Arc User
    it's been brought up before... look into... they can make anniversary emotes account wide that you get from a box... why not a ship? course they can... but they will need to look into it...
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 10,049 Arc User
    The word 'hoarding' gets thrown around like water by some. If an item is Account Bound and cannot be used by anyone else for anything else, making extra was not hoarding. For whatever reason, some people were planning for the future for anticipated new Characters. The game changed, the Tokens stored away for a future that was nevermore to come were now meaningless. The rest is history.

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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,339 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Rep sponsorships being made free compensated massively, too.

    Didn't stop people demanding additional "compensation" for the tokens they'd hoarded.

    It was stupid and Cryptic should've just deleted the things, but yeah...

    Why was it stupid? Those people did put in the time to earn the required marks to make the tokens. Absolutely no reason to penalize people for banking them for future use.

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  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 1,180 Arc User
    It would be great if this happened, though like others I don't expect it to happen soon.


    There would probably be restrictions anyway. I doubt they would allow us to fly Universe class ships on all characters for example. If I'm not mistaken, their policy is for these ships to be rare.

    Making uniforms or weapons/sets from the lobi store account-wide may be more likely to happen. Even if it was only limited to that, it would still be great. There are so many sets nowadays that it would still be a huge money maker I suppose.
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  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 1,180 Arc User
    And Phoenix stuff of course. The ships used to be account-wide unlocks anyway so removing the character restriction really is something that I think is both likely to be done, and the reasonable thing to do.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,206 Arc User
    edited October 31
    ltminns wrote: »
    The word 'hoarding' gets thrown around like water by some. If an item is Account Bound and cannot be used by anyone else for anything else, making extra was not hoarding.
    hoard
    noun
    a supply or accumulation that is hidden or carefully guarded for preservation, future use, etc.: a vast hoard of silver.
    verb (used with object)
    to accumulate for preservation, future use, etc., in a hidden or carefully guarded place: to hoard food during a shortage.
    verb (used without object)
    to accumulate money, food, or the like, in a hidden or carefully guarded place for preservation, future use, etc.
    Making extra was definitely "accumulating for future use," ie hoarding.
    valoreah wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Rep sponsorships being made free compensated massively, too.

    Didn't stop people demanding additional "compensation" for the tokens they'd hoarded.

    It was stupid and Cryptic should've just deleted the things, but yeah...

    Why was it stupid? Those people did put in the time to earn the required marks to make the tokens. Absolutely no reason to penalize people for banking them for future use.
    Nobody was penalized. They already got exactly what they made the tokens for (sponsorship for future toons). An unlimited number of future toons no less. It was plain greed of them to ask for more, and stupid to give it to them.
  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,109 Arc User
    kelador wrote: »
    On the flip side this move would hurt RWT sales which is a good thing as it would encourage people to buy ships in a more legit way and it would also change the exchange econmeny as ship prices would rise due to the account wide unlock adding value so prices will go up.

    Ummm making em account wide would lower the cost of the ships on the exchange. supply and demand... you no longer need X number of copies of the same ship for your various toons on the same account. Now you only need 1. Now if your saying even more people will buy em cause they are account unlocks... I think it will drive sales of keys instead.

    They also have not said anything about making new ship boxes bound to account or not to prevent fraud. Older single use ships could still be freely traded... but account unlocks? I see those as being bound on acquire to keep em "Rare". That way it will drive Key sales.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 2,529 Arc User
    edited October 31
    I've only ever bought one ship via phoenix tokens the Nandi, if they do make them account unlocks then I hope my Nandi will be unlocked on my whole account.
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  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 4,629 Arc User
    avoozuul wrote: »
    I've only ever bought one ship via phoenix tokens the Nandi, if they do make them account unlocks then I hope my Nandi will be unlocked on my whole account.

    Same for my Nandi on my other acct. Though I have two of them cause I got a epic last time and got my Ferengi a Nandi.
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

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  • mithrosnomoremithrosnomore Member Posts: 279 Arc User
    edited October 31
    kelador wrote: »
    On the flip side this move would hurt RWT sales which is a good thing as it would encourage people to buy ships in a more legit way and it would also change the exchange econmeny as ship prices would rise due to the account wide unlock adding value so prices will go up.

    But people would need fewer ships.

    You are totally excluding demand of repeat customers. Some people may like the look and/or set-up of a particular ship and so they want all of their toons to fly it, or at least all of their toons of a certain specialization, be that engineering, science, or tactical.

    Killing that demand lowers overall demand, which lowers prices.

    It also hurts the market for people that might have otherwise looked for a different ship, but that will instead settle for what they already have.
    If someone already has an account-unlocked Miracle Worker flight-deck cruiser, how much is that T6 Connie worth to them?

    I am not trying to say that it has no value, but that player will have to really want that specific ship if they are willing to pay for that 9th, 10th, or 11th zero.

    Never mind that one of them might be better for a specific Captain than the other. That they already have one will likely be good enough for a lot of people.


    There would probably be restrictions anyway. I doubt they would allow us to fly Universe class ships on all characters for example. If I'm not mistaken, their policy is for these ships to be rare.

    They need a better argument.

    The point has never been that these ships should be rare, the point has always been that anyone willing to spend enough money can have these ships.

    The entire game could be nothing but Captains flying around in Khlinae class battlecruisers.
    Is that supposed to be okay?

    They don't care. It means that 900 lobi was spent for every Captain in the game and that ultimately means a whole lot of keys were sold.

    They'd rather everyone be flying around in T6 Connies, I'm sure. The cost of the R&D packs combined with the drop rates of the T6 ship boxes probably puts the chances of getting a T6 lockbox ship to shame in terms of money generated for Cryptic.

    Supposed to be rare? No. Supposed to be expensive and generate money for the game? Yes.

  • equinox976equinox976 Member Posts: 2,152 Arc User
    The point has never been that these ships should be rare, the point has always been that anyone willing to spend enough money can have these ships.

    I do recall Cryptic mentioning they only had licence from CBS to put certain ships in the game in limited numbers (Google search is not being kind to me at the moment, so I could be wrong).

    However. If those ships where made account wide unlocks, the numbers would not increase (rarity would remain essentially the same), the person who owns them would simply be able to access them on all characters, so Cryptic would not have violated that (aforementioned) agreement, if this went ahead.


  • lexusk19lexusk19 Member Posts: 1,333 Arc User
    lexusk19 wrote: »
    As someone who has spent billions of EC and thousands of irl dollars on this game. I fully support account unlock for all ships. Wouldn't upset me at all. I really want it.

    Have you spent all that money trying to get multiple copies of ships for more then one character?

    For the billion EC ships? Only once, to expensive to get on alts. Now I just give one to a toon to be their one special thing.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,530 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Rep sponsorships being made free compensated massively, too.

    Didn't stop people demanding additional "compensation" for the tokens they'd hoarded.

    It was stupid and Cryptic should've just deleted the things, but yeah...
    Why was it stupid? Those people did put in the time to earn the required marks to make the tokens. Absolutely no reason to penalize people for banking them for future use.
    It was like buying movie tickets to a movie in another town without knowing it you'd get time to go see the movie. You're collecting things without knowing IF you'll use them. The extra dumb part is... you don't NEED to stockpile them since you can make them at will. Like the movie ticket analogy. You can just buy a ticket at the theater.
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  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 958 Bug Hunter
    edited November 1
    And Phoenix stuff of course. The ships used to be account-wide unlocks anyway so removing the character restriction really is something that I think is both likely to be done, and the reasonable thing to do.

    Yea I could definitely see the Phoenix Pack Ships being 'mostly' considered changing back to account-wide; as for the Lockbox Ships they want those to remain Rare or one would think so.

    If people want to unlock the Lockbox Ship Traits &/or Console you think more of those will begin to appear as Lobi unlocks like they currently have 1-2 now.

    But then again you never know what their logic or 'thought' process might be--so I guess we'll wait and see.
    lexusk19 wrote: »
    lexusk19 wrote: »
    As someone who has spent billions of EC and thousands of irl dollars on this game. I fully support account unlock for all ships. Wouldn't upset me at all. I really want it.

    Have you spent all that money trying to get multiple copies of ships for more then one character?

    For the billion EC ships? Only once, to expensive to get on alts. Now I just give one to a toon to be their one special thing.

    Very understandable position.
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  • jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,628 Arc User
    I can see a Make-One-Lockbox-Ship-Account-Wide option for an Epic Phoenix Token.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 10,049 Arc User
    I never stockpiled and created them on demand. People didn't need to stockpile them but they did. It's like creating many many thousands of Forum Posts. They didn't have to but they did.
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