it's rathr humerous that many in this thread complain about mary sue, when, by definition, every single one of our toons are Mary Sue
I prefer to think of myself as Kathryn Janeway.
After all, she was the one who introduced 1 shot Borg killing torpedo's and somehow overcame any, and all obstacle's, with only a weak cup of (acorn) coffee to hand. (And never got charged with pan-galactic war crimes).
> @jonsills said:
> Klingons were using DNA to encode software and data as early as the 22nd century, per ENT:"Broken Arrow".
Quite true. That said, I wonder why someone in here was talking about the Fox character Pelant from Bones and his malware on bones attack.
because it was the only other example of an organic-based whatever affecting computer-based hardware i know of
and the point was that they're all equally ridiculous, because you can no more encode messages or viruses into DNA than you can upload malware into a computer that scans bones by carving fractal patterns into those bits of bone; they're plot elements meant to move the story along, nothing more
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
DNA encoding was, of course, also used by the Progenitors in TNG:"The Chase". The point is, whether we believe encoding data and/or software into DNA patterns can be done is irrelevant; in the setting, it's been done, so by story logic, it can be done again. And virii have in fact been encoded into digital images, using the process of steganography - it's difficult, and the results depend on the system being invaded having the right imaging software, but it can be done.
and the point was that they're all equally ridiculous, because you can no more encode messages or viruses into DNA than you can upload malware into a computer that scans bones by carving fractal patterns into those bits of bone; they're plot elements meant to move the story along, nothing more
Actually it seems they have already made progress storing information on DNA (it's an ideal medium as it's cheap and can store insane amounts of data /per gram.
They have already managed to encode information onto DNA, but getting it back off again (reading it) is proving a bit trickier, but they hope to resolve that issue soon.
it's rathr humerous that many in this thread complain about mary sue, when, by definition, every single one of our toons are Mary Sue
Well, none of us wrote our character's story. It is insanely improbable for us to go through all the events we have and come out on top every time, definitely. However, I know all my characters have their flaws and idiosyncrasies and would grow and learn if the story allowed it. Unfortunately as I have no control over the writing, that stuff never comes into play.
Anyway, on the magic DNA code, the really fundamental issue isn't whether its possible or not, as it has been pointed out this is a fictional universe and if we want that to be possible, it is. The problem is that it wasn't built up to the point where it is believable. It is that this Klingon with virtually no experience with Starfleet scanner technology managed to write this perfect little virus to exploit a vulnerability and disable ships and starbases alike, along with her other magic expertise over Starfleet tech. It is, for me, one of these things that stretches the bounds of believability too far.
and the point was that they're all equally ridiculous, because you can no more encode messages or viruses into DNA than you can upload malware into a computer that scans bones by carving fractal patterns into those bits of bone; they're plot elements meant to move the story along, nothing more
Actually it seems they have already made progress storing information on DNA (it's an ideal medium as it's cheap and can store insane amounts of data /per gram.
They have already managed to encode information onto DNA, but getting it back off again (reading it) is proving a bit trickier, but they hope to resolve that issue soon.
Pretty much every player character in every game is a Mary Sue of massive proportions. They have to be in order for it to make sense that they would have any chance of winning.
My character is Caitian. Do you really think anything could stop a cat achieving world domination if it wanted to?
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Pretty much every player character in every game is a Mary Sue of massive proportions. They have to be in order for it to make sense that they would have any chance of winning.
Depends on how you define the term. A lot of definitions include the personality, and well... the STO story doesn't really write that out. The backstories I've written for some of my characters have it that they really aren't well liked people. Like using prisoners as slave labor, or how one of my characters maxed the perk for killing Klingons in ground combat years ago.
The Discovery stuff is undoubtedly shoe horned into the game. However, the game lore was already a convoluted mess and has been revamped, re-revamped and so much stuff outright removed to the point that the story is unrecognizable from when I started playing. Cryptic is in a tough spot when it comes to Discovery though. It's a current show and it's fairly successful so it has to be in the game somehow.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
> @salazarraze said:
> The Discovery stuff is undoubtedly shoe horned into the game. However, the game lore was already a convoluted mess and has been revamped, re-revamped and so much stuff outright removed to the point that the story is unrecognizable from when I started playing. Cryptic is in a tough spot when it comes to Discovery though. It's a current show and it's fairly successful so it has to be in the game somehow.
Umm, no. Cryptic started working with CBS on Discovery tie ins at the same time CBS was developing the show. As a result those tie ins are the best done in the entire game and 100 percent undoubtedly not shoe horned in to anything.
I have to disagree. The abruptness with which Discovery based story began in STO does not tie in well IMO. The FED-DSC characters was done well but the discovery story for the rest of the factions/fractions comes at the end of the ViL story and is primarily holo simulations. That's about the only way you could shoe horn a show that's ~150 years behind the game's story. I don't blame them too much as I said. They had to get it into the game somehow, and this was probably the easiest way.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Not shoehorned at all. If one creates a DSC character, those toons actually experience the events in question before being thrown forward in time. For toons of other Factions and/or from 2410, the holodeck simulations were the most logical route to take without having those characters once again time traveling. Holodeck simulations are also the explanation given for Jem'Hadar toons that play pre-VIL missions, because those events happened before the Dominion join the Alliance. No one claimed that was shoehorning.
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Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
1. Discovery is Prime Timeline canon, no exceptions.
2. Vulcans lie all the time, Spock lied numerous times in TOS, please watch The Enterprise Incident, The Menagerie, Whom Gods Destroy, Errand of Mercy, or literally any other episode.
3. Spock showed emotion all the time in TOS.
4. Canon is only decided by IP owner, nobody else has ever or will ever decide canon.
CBS does indeed call DSC prime universe, the thing is that by doing so with something so radically different they have made it like quantum weirdness where everything except Kelvin and Mirror are at the same time in a state of "Prime" and "Not-Prime" equally that resolve differently each time one opens the box.
Seriously though, official canon and ownership of IP simply have nothing to do with the controversy and never has, it has always been a question of compatibility and consistency which neither of those address. The controversy is in the viewer domain and only involves the company in that if they stray too far and poison their own well the viewers will go elsewhere.
And yes, Vulcans lie (even to themselves), especially when they say they never lie. The difference is that they do hair-splitting by using a Kantian style logic and framing it as "for the greater good" instead of habitually doing it out of self-interest.
And yes, Vulcans have emotion, stronger than humans in fact, which is why the Vulcans keep it bound in chains of logic to keep order. Originally that was from Number One's people (augments to use the later-coined term), who used it to control their amplified aggressive tendencies before NBC demanded they get rid of her (and so far DSC seems to ignore that part of her original bio).
Seriously though, official canon and ownership of IP simply have nothing to do with the controversy and never has, it has always been a question of compatibility and consistency which neither of those address. The controversy is in the viewer domain and only involves the company in that if they stray too far and poison their own well the viewers will go elsewhere.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The problem with STO's stories is being all too willing to tie everything together needlessly without leaving some unanswered hooks. The Gamma recruitment event finally gave me the chance and excuse to go through the gamma arc start to finish, and the story on its own is great and well done, but the way it ties into previous content is simply awful.
Spoilers if you're new to STO or haven't done large chunks of the story.
Way way way back we were given the KDF afterlife missions with a very teaser ending that tied the Fek'ihri to the Hur'q. It was very vague and very unexplored for a very long time. Instead in an anticlimactic way we find out it was actually a secret Dominion project that created the Fek'ihri and they are only related to the Hur'q in that they were both Dominion projects. It also doesn't really explain why the Fek'ihri have a whole fleet standing by to play with. You'd think the Dominion would have destroyed them once realizing the Fek'ihri were uncontrollable.
The Hur'q themselves are not even canon in the game, with no reasonable liklihood of them ever having established a museum of their conquests and holographic tech, especially one that included the Sword of Kahless, as any point of their society as we saw in the one DS9 episode. Instead they are a crazy species that devours worlds in their Dominion induced insanity. This is a lost chance to actually explore the Hur'q and the Fek'ihri.
The gamma missions also reveal the most nonsensical thing of all, that the Tzenkethi admiral was supposedly the Female changeling all along. Well we don't actually know how long, but it is implied. Yet that completely destroys the Tzenkethi storyline as it wasn't the admiral behind their crusade, but the Autarch, and it doesn't begin to explain why they would destroy worlds without any Hur'q eggs. The admiral simply being a madman would have opened up further exploration of Tzenkethi issues. While Bajor is explained as a desperate ruse to draw the Alliance into the Hur'q threat, the Tzenkethi crusade doesn't fit with the idea that the hibernation cycle of the Hur'q, because they've been devastating Dominion space for a while, yet lay dormant in the alpha.
So it all conspires to not only preclude a more canon Hur'q, and their relation to the Fek'ihri as an interesting storyline, it cuts off the Tzenkethi line with a very messy chop that gives us no reason to explore them further because it was all a Dominion plot. This is an all too familiar refrain from the early years in STO where everything was all an Iconian plot.
Comments
I prefer to think of myself as Kathryn Janeway.
After all, she was the one who introduced 1 shot Borg killing torpedo's and somehow overcame any, and all obstacle's, with only a weak cup of (acorn) coffee to hand. (And never got charged with pan-galactic war crimes).
My character Tsin'xing
because it was the only other example of an organic-based whatever affecting computer-based hardware i know of
and the point was that they're all equally ridiculous, because you can no more encode messages or viruses into DNA than you can upload malware into a computer that scans bones by carving fractal patterns into those bits of bone; they're plot elements meant to move the story along, nothing more
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Actually it seems they have already made progress storing information on DNA (it's an ideal medium as it's cheap and can store insane amounts of data /per gram.
They have already managed to encode information onto DNA, but getting it back off again (reading it) is proving a bit trickier, but they hope to resolve that issue soon.
Some interesting reading here:
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/610071/storing-data-in-dna-is-a-lot-easier-than-getting-it-back-out/
Well, none of us wrote our character's story. It is insanely improbable for us to go through all the events we have and come out on top every time, definitely. However, I know all my characters have their flaws and idiosyncrasies and would grow and learn if the story allowed it. Unfortunately as I have no control over the writing, that stuff never comes into play.
Anyway, on the magic DNA code, the really fundamental issue isn't whether its possible or not, as it has been pointed out this is a fictional universe and if we want that to be possible, it is. The problem is that it wasn't built up to the point where it is believable. It is that this Klingon with virtually no experience with Starfleet scanner technology managed to write this perfect little virus to exploit a vulnerability and disable ships and starbases alike, along with her other magic expertise over Starfleet tech. It is, for me, one of these things that stretches the bounds of believability too far.
My character Tsin'xing
My character is Caitian. Do you really think anything could stop a cat achieving world domination if it wanted to?
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
My character Tsin'xing
I have to disagree. The abruptness with which Discovery based story began in STO does not tie in well IMO. The FED-DSC characters was done well but the discovery story for the rest of the factions/fractions comes at the end of the ViL story and is primarily holo simulations. That's about the only way you could shoe horn a show that's ~150 years behind the game's story. I don't blame them too much as I said. They had to get it into the game somehow, and this was probably the easiest way.
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l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
CBS does indeed call DSC prime universe, the thing is that by doing so with something so radically different they have made it like quantum weirdness where everything except Kelvin and Mirror are at the same time in a state of "Prime" and "Not-Prime" equally that resolve differently each time one opens the box.
Seriously though, official canon and ownership of IP simply have nothing to do with the controversy and never has, it has always been a question of compatibility and consistency which neither of those address. The controversy is in the viewer domain and only involves the company in that if they stray too far and poison their own well the viewers will go elsewhere.
And yes, Vulcans lie (even to themselves), especially when they say they never lie. The difference is that they do hair-splitting by using a Kantian style logic and framing it as "for the greater good" instead of habitually doing it out of self-interest.
And yes, Vulcans have emotion, stronger than humans in fact, which is why the Vulcans keep it bound in chains of logic to keep order. Originally that was from Number One's people (augments to use the later-coined term), who used it to control their amplified aggressive tendencies before NBC demanded they get rid of her (and so far DSC seems to ignore that part of her original bio).
My character Tsin'xing
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Spoilers if you're new to STO or haven't done large chunks of the story.
Way way way back we were given the KDF afterlife missions with a very teaser ending that tied the Fek'ihri to the Hur'q. It was very vague and very unexplored for a very long time. Instead in an anticlimactic way we find out it was actually a secret Dominion project that created the Fek'ihri and they are only related to the Hur'q in that they were both Dominion projects. It also doesn't really explain why the Fek'ihri have a whole fleet standing by to play with. You'd think the Dominion would have destroyed them once realizing the Fek'ihri were uncontrollable.
The Hur'q themselves are not even canon in the game, with no reasonable liklihood of them ever having established a museum of their conquests and holographic tech, especially one that included the Sword of Kahless, as any point of their society as we saw in the one DS9 episode. Instead they are a crazy species that devours worlds in their Dominion induced insanity. This is a lost chance to actually explore the Hur'q and the Fek'ihri.
The gamma missions also reveal the most nonsensical thing of all, that the Tzenkethi admiral was supposedly the Female changeling all along. Well we don't actually know how long, but it is implied. Yet that completely destroys the Tzenkethi storyline as it wasn't the admiral behind their crusade, but the Autarch, and it doesn't begin to explain why they would destroy worlds without any Hur'q eggs. The admiral simply being a madman would have opened up further exploration of Tzenkethi issues. While Bajor is explained as a desperate ruse to draw the Alliance into the Hur'q threat, the Tzenkethi crusade doesn't fit with the idea that the hibernation cycle of the Hur'q, because they've been devastating Dominion space for a while, yet lay dormant in the alpha.
So it all conspires to not only preclude a more canon Hur'q, and their relation to the Fek'ihri as an interesting storyline, it cuts off the Tzenkethi line with a very messy chop that gives us no reason to explore them further because it was all a Dominion plot. This is an all too familiar refrain from the early years in STO where everything was all an Iconian plot.