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Lore's Left Turn

glasswordsglasswords Member Posts: 43 Arc User
I can understand why CBS would be pushing for Discovery content in its game. It has been fun to play while watching the new series. But, there is so much content already inside the proper universe that could be expanded upon. One would figure by now that New Romulus would have settlements or small cities with more adventure to take part in. Did "Midnight" end Sela's desire to grap power? It feels like there is so much more that could be done with the Borg Cooperative or Odo's Dominion.. For me at least, the game's getting awfully timey-whimey with past and present colliding all over the place. What are your thoughts? Would you like to see less injection of the past into the present? Are they doing the right thing with this approach? The game has continued the stories from TNG, DS9 and Voyager, but it's starting to feel a little "soupish" in its approach.
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    rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,018 Community Moderator
    Sela's thirst for power pretty much died in "Survivor", which I believe takes place after Midnight. She found out her mother had lived longer than she had been told. At the end we see her talking to a certain individual about Tasha.

    The Temporal stuff is really the only way to get things from the past in. Word on the grapevine though is that the next arc will close up Mirror Leeta's story. What I'm curious about is how the presence of Mirror Tilly will impact it.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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    ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    New Romulus is never going to develop further. There are way too many slackards standing around and yawning. How many times do you have to admonish them already. :)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
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    leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,344 Arc User
    glasswords wrote: »
    I can understand why CBS would be pushing for Discovery content in its game. It has been fun to play while watching the new series. But, there is so much content already inside the proper universe that could be expanded upon. One would figure by now that New Romulus would have settlements or small cities with more adventure to take part in. Did "Midnight" end Sela's desire to grap power? It feels like there is so much more that could be done with the Borg Cooperative or Odo's Dominion.. For me at least, the game's getting awfully timey-whimey with past and present colliding all over the place. What are your thoughts? Would you like to see less injection of the past into the present? Are they doing the right thing with this approach? The game has continued the stories from TNG, DS9 and Voyager, but it's starting to feel a little "soupish" in its approach.

    New Romulan settlements would not be so quickly established considering that in terms of game time, barely a year has passed. Most Romulan effort is currently focused on New Romulus, especially considering the fact Billions of live were lost, and to say they have recovered sufficient numbers is folly as it has been barely 3 decades since the loss of Romulus.

    Borg Co-Operative storyline is in the pipeline, but not for at least two years from what I gather, and we most likely will revisit Odo's Dominion in short-order.

    The game has been time-whimey for most of it's existence, with most of it being done about 3 years ago. The current DSC time-incursions have ended already.

    Time Travel is part and parcel of Star Trek.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
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    davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,512 Arc User
    Yep, the only way to allow players to have a TOS or Discovery character is timey-wimey stuffy-wuffy since they are not set in 2409. As a geezer I particularly enjoyed the TOS episodes, but I thought they did a great job with Tilly and the pre-jump Discovery content.

    Time travel was a part of every Trek series. No True Scotsman can call themselves a Trek fan while objecting to time travel stories in STO ;)
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    foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    Yeah I'd like less content from 200 years ago. It is one thing when we are doing time travel missions, but when you have entire fleets like J'ula coming forward in time AND they are more than a match for ships of this time period, it really does not make sense and hurts immersion. Leeta and her time travel stuff is similarly weird though.

    I think there is a time and place for time travel in Star Trek, but I would say overall its overused in STO and used too often to explain everything.
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    littlesarbonnlittlesarbonn Member Posts: 486 Arc User
    I'm still a bit confused about the First Federation. Is there a story line that covers them? I keep popping in and out of the game so often that the story keeps changing on me, but I might have missed an entire segment involving this mysterious area.
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    equinox976equinox976 Member Posts: 2,277 Arc User
    I'm still a bit confused about the First Federation. Is there a story line that covers them? I keep popping in and out of the game so often that the story keeps changing on me, but I might have missed an entire segment involving this mysterious area.

    Are you talking about this?

    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/First_Federation
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    phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,504 Arc User
    I would rather they broke up the DSC/Picard stuff a bit with fleshing out the Dominion and other pre-Viacom-split loose ends (setting wise as much as story wise) instead of nothing but the CBS stuff. Picard might be a tempering factor in the long run, but at the moment the steady stream of nothing but DSC is getting a bit cloying.
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    ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    If they can put the Fesarius in an R&D Infinity Promotion Box, you'd better believe that we'd get the First Federation in the game. ;)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
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    rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,018 Community Moderator
    but when you have entire fleets like J'ula coming forward in time AND they are more than a match for ships of this time period, it really does not make sense and hurts immersion.

    They explained that J'Ula actually upgraded her ships to be on par with our own after coming forward in time. So while they are older designs, they're actually comparable to modern designs in terms of power.

    J'Ula probably spent time learning what she could. Remember that House Mo'Kai were the sneaky intel types. Kinda like House Pegh, but far less honorable. Not only that, J'Ula was shown to be wicked smart, able to hack into the USS Glenn's computer, jack a locked down Class C Shuttle, orchestrated the whole operation involving Prior's World...
    She's not playing around. And frankly she makes B'Vat look like a rank amature.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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    phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,504 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    If they can put the Fesarius in an R&D Infinity Promotion Box, you'd better believe that we'd get the First Federation in the game. ;)

    While the whole sphere clustership would have the same problems as a Borg sphere flight mechanics wise, the Fesarius command section would make an excellent ship in of itself. It could center around weaponized tractor/pressor and radiation technologies as an extension of what is seen in the TOS episode, sort of like the "science command" ships in the c-store that are not strictly science ships, but with a bit of a twist.

    It would be best to avoid taking the "pilot ship" designation literally and making it an escort though unless it is a very heavy one, when you see the pilot ship near the Enterprise it is actually rather sizable despite the low deck height and would probably be closer to a destroyer or small cruiser than something like the Defiant.

    Also, it is easy enough to make Fesarians in the character generator (I have a number of variants of them as characters already, though I used isolated "lost colonies", instead of Carpi itself or an unnamed active First Federation world, to avoid conflicting with any STO lore (not knowing at the time I made the first ones that there is essentially no lore about them in the game besides the fact that they trade tranya to the Ferengi and others).

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    foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    but when you have entire fleets like J'ula coming forward in time AND they are more than a match for ships of this time period, it really does not make sense and hurts immersion.

    They explained that J'Ula actually upgraded her ships to be on par with our own after coming forward in time. So while they are older designs, they're actually comparable to modern designs in terms of power.

    J'Ula probably spent time learning what she could. Remember that House Mo'Kai were the sneaky intel types. Kinda like House Pegh, but far less honorable. Not only that, J'Ula was shown to be wicked smart, able to hack into the USS Glenn's computer, jack a locked down Class C Shuttle, orchestrated the whole operation involving Prior's World...
    She's not playing around. And frankly she makes B'Vat look like a rank amature.


    Yes J'Ula smacks of Mary Sue. Incredible perfect solutions and executions with little apparent effort. She just knows stuff, can outsmart everyone, yet still tosses her troops to their deaths like Halloween candy to kids instead of some polished precise operation that actually outsmarted opponents instead of outrunning them.

    Granted, the DNA virus thing was clever if greatly stretching belief.
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    ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    but when you have entire fleets like J'ula coming forward in time AND they are more than a match for ships of this time period, it really does not make sense and hurts immersion.

    They explained that J'Ula actually upgraded her ships to be on par with our own after coming forward in time. So while they are older designs, they're actually comparable to modern designs in terms of power.

    J'Ula probably spent time learning what she could. Remember that House Mo'Kai were the sneaky intel types. Kinda like House Pegh, but far less honorable. Not only that, J'Ula was shown to be wicked smart, able to hack into the USS Glenn's computer, jack a locked down Class C Shuttle, orchestrated the whole operation involving Prior's World...
    She's not playing around. And frankly she makes B'Vat look like a rank amature.

    And how long would it take to find a location that can field such an operation, then rip out the old guts and guns, then overhaul new tech into these ships, that seemingly get pulled out of her fourth point of contact repeatedly? Especially with how the game timeline has progressed as it has? And how is she grabbing up all the necessary resources to do so, while "learning." J'Ula's become a poorly written unholy lovechild of a Mary Sue, and Snidely Whiplash, because of a lack of scale or decent thought. And with how our ships and captains keep pushing her lawn fudge in, while slagging her fleet with ease, the villain decay has already set in for the one who uses a cannon to turn parts of space into discharged baby batter in the black. I view her as a shellhead version of Failbaddon the Harmless/Armless, except Failbaddon managed to get Cadia to break before the I-Guard did.

    I already smell another Deus Ex Machina coming, like the ending of the Iconian War, or the ending of ViL.
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    ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    As I understand it, Apollo will return and smite J'Ula with Lightning Bolts. How's that for a Deus Ex Machina©®™. :)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
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    legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,280 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    but when you have entire fleets like J'ula coming forward in time AND they are more than a match for ships of this time period, it really does not make sense and hurts immersion.

    They explained that J'Ula actually upgraded her ships to be on par with our own after coming forward in time. So while they are older designs, they're actually comparable to modern designs in terms of power.

    J'Ula probably spent time learning what she could. Remember that House Mo'Kai were the sneaky intel types. Kinda like House Pegh, but far less honorable. Not only that, J'Ula was shown to be wicked smart, able to hack into the USS Glenn's computer, jack a locked down Class C Shuttle, orchestrated the whole operation involving Prior's World...
    She's not playing around. And frankly she makes B'Vat look like a rank amature.


    Yes J'Ula smacks of Mary Sue. Incredible perfect solutions and executions with little apparent effort. She just knows stuff, can outsmart everyone, yet still tosses her troops to their deaths like Halloween candy to kids instead of some polished precise operation that actually outsmarted opponents instead of outrunning them.

    Granted, the DNA virus thing was clever if greatly stretching belief.

    it's no more stretching disbelief than carving malware into bone via fractal code or encoding messages into junk DNA​​
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    foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    but when you have entire fleets like J'ula coming forward in time AND they are more than a match for ships of this time period, it really does not make sense and hurts immersion.

    They explained that J'Ula actually upgraded her ships to be on par with our own after coming forward in time. So while they are older designs, they're actually comparable to modern designs in terms of power.

    J'Ula probably spent time learning what she could. Remember that House Mo'Kai were the sneaky intel types. Kinda like House Pegh, but far less honorable. Not only that, J'Ula was shown to be wicked smart, able to hack into the USS Glenn's computer, jack a locked down Class C Shuttle, orchestrated the whole operation involving Prior's World...
    She's not playing around. And frankly she makes B'Vat look like a rank amature.


    Yes J'Ula smacks of Mary Sue. Incredible perfect solutions and executions with little apparent effort. She just knows stuff, can outsmart everyone, yet still tosses her troops to their deaths like Halloween candy to kids instead of some polished precise operation that actually outsmarted opponents instead of outrunning them.

    Granted, the DNA virus thing was clever if greatly stretching belief.

    it's no more stretching disbelief than carving malware into bone via fractal code or encoding messages into junk DNA​​

    Do you click email links all the time? Your IT person wants a word with you. That's about how I see it.

    In other words it may be there, but someone should have to actively operate it for it to work. The scanner executing strange code by simply reading in data doesn't make much sense.

    I could be ignorant here, but I don't think that is how things work. I don't know, maybe if you took the right bar code to a supermarket scanner you could infect it with a virus? I'm fairly sure that would have happened by now if it were possible.

    Even ignoring that angle, obviously there can be some strange vulnerabilities in computers and somehow she learned of it. Okay, but, we don't know how she managed to find such an obscure vulnerability that no one in Starfleet even knew about. She's just such a whiz kid that she can find vulnerabilities in systems that she has basically no experience with. Mary J'Ula Sue.

    To be clear I thought it was clever and liked the idea, but it wasn't developed in a way that made it believable.
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    phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,504 Arc User
    To be fair, there was one of those one page story things a while back that had J'Ula linking up with the modern remnants of her house, and they have their hooks in a bigger house or something (I did not pay a lot of attention to it) which could be a thin though workable justification for getting upgrades.

    Still, the high loss mass-wave tactics her forces are always shown using do not fit the circumstances at all, she should have run out of ships and crews long before now. At the very least she would have had to fall back on snagging modern ships as replacements for all the refits she lost so far. Sometimes it seems she brought half the empire with her.
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    jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,365 Arc User
    ichaerus1 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    but when you have entire fleets like J'ula coming forward in time AND they are more than a match for ships of this time period, it really does not make sense and hurts immersion.

    They explained that J'Ula actually upgraded her ships to be on par with our own after coming forward in time. So while they are older designs, they're actually comparable to modern designs in terms of power.

    J'Ula probably spent time learning what she could. Remember that House Mo'Kai were the sneaky intel types. Kinda like House Pegh, but far less honorable. Not only that, J'Ula was shown to be wicked smart, able to hack into the USS Glenn's computer, jack a locked down Class C Shuttle, orchestrated the whole operation involving Prior's World...
    She's not playing around. And frankly she makes B'Vat look like a rank amature.

    And how long would it take to find a location that can field such an operation, then rip out the old guts and guns, then overhaul new tech into these ships, that seemingly get pulled out of her fourth point of contact repeatedly? Especially with how the game timeline has progressed as it has?
    I dunno, how did a slave race construct their very own warship right under the noses of the Tal'Shiar, one of the largest ships in the known galaxy with more weaponry than an entire Starfleet task force, meanwhile also constructing weapons forbidden by even the Romulan Star Empire and somehow secretly deploying them into the Imperial Senate chamber??

    How did a group of monks, a career field not widely known for its advanced biotechnology, manage to not only build a hidden cloning facility no one else knew about, but also construct a device that could download the contents of their holy books into a living brain in such fashion that the brain would interpret those writings as actual memories, and manage to isolate the entire DNA structure of someone who had been dead for almost two thousand years?

    There's a lot less probable stuff than J'Ula's tricks in the official lore, is what I'm saying here.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    but when you have entire fleets like J'ula coming forward in time AND they are more than a match for ships of this time period, it really does not make sense and hurts immersion.
    They explained that J'Ula actually upgraded her ships to be on par with our own after coming forward in time. So while they are older designs, they're actually comparable to modern designs in terms of power.

    J'Ula probably spent time learning what she could. Remember that House Mo'Kai were the sneaky intel types. Kinda like House Pegh, but far less honorable. Not only that, J'Ula was shown to be wicked smart, able to hack into the USS Glenn's computer, jack a locked down Class C Shuttle, orchestrated the whole operation involving Prior's World...
    She's not playing around. And frankly she makes B'Vat look like a rank amature.
    Yes J'Ula smacks of Mary Sue. Incredible perfect solutions and executions with little apparent effort. She just knows stuff, can outsmart everyone, yet still tosses her troops to their deaths like Halloween candy to kids instead of some polished precise operation that actually outsmarted opponents instead of outrunning them.

    Granted, the DNA virus thing was clever if greatly stretching belief.
    it's no more stretching disbelief than carving malware into bone via fractal code or encoding messages into junk DNA​​
    Do you click email links all the time? Your IT person wants a word with you. That's about how I see it.

    In other words it may be there, but someone should have to actively operate it for it to work. The scanner executing strange code by simply reading in data doesn't make much sense.

    I could be ignorant here, but I don't think that is how things work. I don't know, maybe if you took the right bar code to a supermarket scanner you could infect it with a virus? I'm fairly sure that would have happened by now if it were possible.

    Even ignoring that angle, obviously there can be some strange vulnerabilities in computers and somehow she learned of it. Okay, but, we don't know how she managed to find such an obscure vulnerability that no one in Starfleet even knew about. She's just such a whiz kid that she can find vulnerabilities in systems that she has basically no experience with. Mary J'Ula Sue.

    To be clear I thought it was clever and liked the idea, but it wasn't developed in a way that made it believable.
    My fault I saw was that a computer does not execute an arbitrary segment of data as instructions. It reacts based on what it's programmed to do. IF it's programmed to take a certain piece of data as a command, it will, but it's not programmed to do that with random scan data. Otherwise the computer would flip out on a daily basis. I mean imagine if your PC tried to scan every image file you look at for hidden instructions. It doesn't. It uses them for what the image data is flagged to be used for. This is basically the same sort of thing. the computer was making an image out of the guy's DNA. But it executed it as code instead of filing it as an image.
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    vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,857 Arc User
    it's rathr humerous that many in this thread complain about mary sue, when, by definition, every single one of our toons are Mary Sue
    Spock.jpg

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    sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 5,464 Arc User
    edited October 2019
    it's rathr humerous that many in this thread complain about mary sue, when, by definition, every single one of our toons are Mary Sue

    My toon is not a Mary Sue. I also feel bad for anyone named Mary Sue.
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
This discussion has been closed.